By Steve Kaless
November 9th 2009 @ 5:31am
Related coverage
Kangaroos red hot favourites to down England
Australian Greg Inglis leaves a English defenders in his wake as he runs n a try during the Australia versus England Rugby League World Cup pool match at Docklands Stadium in Melbourne, Sunday, Nov 2, 2008. Australia won 52- 4. AAP Image/Julian Smith
My rugby league season will end where it begin, Elland Road Leeds. The year kicked off with Australia v England hostilities at club level with Manly and Leeds, and this Saturday we get the real deal after the English rolled the Kiwi world champions in Huddersfield.
The confidence England gained in the second half against Australia was on show again as they showed plenty of grit and determination to earn their place in the final and give them an early shot redemption against the Kangaroos.
The dramatic changes coach Tony Smith made after the World Cup and then the tune up after the Australian match look to be paying dividends, in particular the halves pairing of Sam Tomkins and Kyle Eastmond looks settled with the necessary flair while the pack and bench look to well balanced.
England will have the crowd behind them, a home town referee and local conditions. They should fancy themselves at causing a boil over.
But the Australians will enter the final as red hot favourites and rightly so. They looked light years ahead of England in the first half and the halves combination between Jonathan Thurston and Darren Lockyer looks to be improving will every week.
Whether Tim Sheens opts for Michael Jennings over Justin Hodges in the centres should provide some intrigue for the week. Jennings was red hot against France, although it was France, and Hodges is yet to cover himself in glory this tournament.
And wasn’t it nice to see the Kangaroos kicking a few goals in the PR stakes by spruiking ‘Movember’ where VB normally sits on the jersey.
As for the departed, the Kiwis will be frustrated that conceding a late try to Australia at the Stoop has effectively ended their tournament. That said there can be no complaints after being beaten by a better side on Saturday.
The winless French looked to have justified their inclusion in the expanded competition. They were well beaten in each of the matches but showed in varying patches of each that they have made progress.
It will be interesting to see how much Olivier Elima attracts from the NRL when his contract negotiations open next year, as he looks to be a player growing in stature in the Super League.
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jus de couchon said | November 9th 2009 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Time a journalist saw the emperors clothes here. The frustration of players and supporters at the continual reinvention of pseudo International teams in the name of expansion is now becomming a joke .
The Link said | November 9th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Um, Australia has been playing France in Rugby a Treize for around 60 years.
Australia, NZ and England have been playing each other for over a 100 years.
Remind me again which team in this tournament is pseudo international?
jus de couchon said | November 10th 2009 @ 5:25am | Report comment
The link ,
My point being has nothing to do with Oz/Kiwi/G.B. An intelligent way to expand R.L would be to ignore the idiots that currently run League. This year , o.k, next year something else. League could do a lot worse than recruiting the Spin Doctors at ERFU who I suspect might reccomend for a large consultation fee that they decide on an idea and stick with it .
oikee said | November 9th 2009 @ 11:11am | Report comment
You would probably look nice in a Frock, like the one you keep in your closset.
Jus de.
Cheezel said | November 9th 2009 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
You have no idea and I don’t even know why I am replying but i will anyway just so you can give yourself an uppercut!
“The frustration of players and supporters” Please tell me who is frustrated besides you?
“reinvention of pseudo International ” You are coming out will all the big one liners but please give us an example?
If you are refering to France they have been around since 1938 and the team they have fielded is mainly drawn from the Cat Dragons and the French Elite comp which has also been going since 1938. The only exception is greenshileds who qualified after being in France for 3 years and before you jump on league for that how many South African’s have played for the Wallabies?
Chris said | November 12th 2009 @ 2:08am | Report comment
around 3 I that can think of
The Link said | November 9th 2009 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Good summary Steve, a one off final like this on home soil idealy suits the Poms. If they can stick with the Kangas in the first half then they may ride the emotion home. Looking forward to the clash.
Steve Kaless said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:13pm | Report comment
Kearney must be ruing his decision to pick Foran over Inu. He looked a bit out of his depth.
Apparently Kearney wasn’t impressed by the lack of intensity in Inu’s training, I wonder if we’ll see Inu back in the black and white.
King of the Gorganites said | November 9th 2009 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
what was the crowd in paris? I saw a mentio of 8K. from what i saw it hardly looked to be 4K. its funny that when league pulls a good crowd we are constantly reminded of it (i.e. the parra v dogs semis) however, when they draw a poor crowd we are never given the figures. funny that.
the fact is league is a minor international sport, with no interest outside the northern counties of england. you leaguies keep talking about growth. i dont see the growth. you can not make up some mickey mouse games and competitions then claim the game is growing. its simply bs.
heres a run down of some of the union crowds over the weeked-
Leicster v sa – SELL OUT – 26K
Eng v Aus – SELL OUT – 82K
Wales v ABs – SELL OUT- 74K
now for the league…….ha. i wont even bother. not even enlgand could see out there game. keep dreamining boys.
oikee said | November 9th 2009 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Heres some league crowd figures for you, Challenge cup at wembley, sellout, Super league grand final, sellout, State of origins sellouts. Go back to union site, you sellout.
Mr cheese said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:34am | Report comment
i don’t think that is right
look at the attendances for the Challenge Cup FInal and the Super League grand final:
The Super League final was about 63,000, I think. Old Trafford holds 75,000.
The Challenge Cup Final wasn’t a sell out either, if memory serves.
You need to be more realistic in what you say.
Lachie said | November 9th 2009 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
according to match reports.:
Aust-France – 6,234
nz-england – 19.390
PJ said | November 10th 2009 @ 5:51am | Report comment
well i was at the game and the attendance was 8500 odd as announced by the speaker and as appeared in l’equipe. No one pretends the game is big in Paris, Toulouse or Perp would have been an easy choice but they want to expand the game. The warming thing was the number of kids there, especially from ethnic minorities.
Mick from Giralang said | November 9th 2009 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
Steve: Do we know who the ref is? Not Ganson I hope…
Steve Kaless said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:10pm | Report comment
Yeah, I do think it is Ganson. Watch for the penalty count to skyrocket.
King of the Gorganites said | November 9th 2009 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
“Heres some league crowd figures for you, Challenge cup at wembley, sellout” – WRONG. if you had of watched the game you would know if was not a sell out. it was about 3/4’s full. which isnt bad considering it was inlondon and the supporters had to travel a long way south, but do not try to claim it was a sell out.
so on your previous statement, the Uk has had one sell out in its enitre season? ha. yea the game is really growing in the UK.
heres another stat for you:
Ireland- rugby continues to grow at a phenomonal rate in eire. Croke park- the bastion of the GAA and irish nationalism is about to be sold out for 3 consecutive games. 10 years ago this would have been unheard of. croke park holds 82,000. and one of the 3 games is against fiji!
oikee said | November 9th 2009 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
Mate, the Rhinos get bigger crowds than any union comp, and they even beat that lousy crowd at Leishester. Your clutching onto something that you know is in decline, expecially here in OZ.
The NRL is the biggest comp in the world, it is gaining heaps of expossure all around Europe with our 4 nations telecast. He plays in the NRL, he is moving to the NRL, all those Kiwis play in the NRL comp, not they play rugby in that honky tonk union laughable comp in france, nooo .
Your a goose, the NRL is alrady selling itself to the American public, and believe me, they love what they see. Lets not try to sell the yanks boring union. We want them to take note, not notes and read a book.
King of the Gorganites said | November 9th 2009 @ 4:40pm | Report comment
ha the rhinos. nice one. what are these figures? they play in a 18K stadium.
the saracens played there season opener at webley. got 45K.
the Heinken cup is the biggest comp in the world. when munster played toulouse in the final in cardiff two years ago, 80,000 munster men and women travelled to wales to watch the game. now thats passion. where RL in ireland?
pothale said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:29pm | Report comment
80,000 travelled? The Millennium only holds 74,000 and there were one or two Welsh there. 40,000 would be a more accurate figure according to fan estimates.
League is nowhere in Ireland.
King of the Gorganites said | November 9th 2009 @ 9:47pm | Report comment
Yes pothale thats my point. 80,000+ travelled knowing that most didnt have a ticket but were happy to be in the same city and soak up the atmosphere of the greatest rugby city in the world.
pothale said | November 9th 2009 @ 11:21pm | Report comment
No my point is that 40,000 travelled. Exaggerated exaggeration is a well-known Munster trait in their wish to dominate everything,
upper class leaguie said | November 10th 2009 @ 1:40am | Report comment
Why would that many people travel just to be in the same city? Wheres the stats buddy?
The Answer said | November 10th 2009 @ 3:19am | Report comment
So Cardiff is the centre of the rugby union universe. Wow! I thought League had a problem with
Brisvegas.
So this ‘global’ game has its epicentre in the capital of a place that isn’t even really a country.
Cheezel said | November 10th 2009 @ 6:49am | Report comment
King,
What do you think of these stats from the ENG V AUS (Union) game and the AUS V FRA (League) game?
Sky Sports 2’s coverage of England’s 18-9 defeat by Australia in the rugby union match at Twickenham drew 521,000 viewers and a 5% share, between 2pm and 5pm. The match itself, which kicked off at 2.30pm, averaged 728,000 viewers.
Earlier, BBC1’s coverage of France’s rugby league match against Australia picked up 1 million viewers and a 9% share, between 2pm and 4.30pm, with the match itself, which kicked off at 2.30pm and was won by Australia 42-4, also averaging 1 million.
It’s so easy being a league supporter. I wonder why Union supporters even put up a fight. We all know the game of Union is on the nose and the TV stats above and in Australia prove it.
Colin N said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:06am | Report comment
Cheezel,
Has it ever occured to you that Sky Sports is a pay channel and BBC1 a terrestrial channel, therefore a lot more people have access to BBC1?
Usually, Six Nations matches average over 5 million.
Darcy said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:11am | Report comment
Well well young Cheezel. You are missing a very important piece of background. Sky is pay tv. BBC is terrestrial and for free. If both matches were on terrestrial the Union match would have won hands down.
Cheezel said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:17am | Report comment
Colin,
I was waiting for that line of arguement. So now you are blaming it on Pay TV for Rugby’s poor ratings. Shame! Shame! Shame! Those figures are very poor for rugby. A game against 2 nations, one of which everyone expects to cop a hiding (None of them England) outrates an international with England. I think it speaks volumes about the said state of Union.
Colin, can it get any worse for union? No wonder league it taking off internationally the 2 products just don’t compare. League will always be the faster more inovative game while Union lives in the past with slow and boring play.
I thought Union’s woes were only confined to the Pacific region. How wrong I was ;-0
Cheezel said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:25am | Report comment
No Darcy
I don’t think I have. You are missing a very important piece of background. How big is England’s population? Have a good look at those figures again. What it shows is that League can pull in the viewers just like Yawnion. Both figures are poor but league still managed to outrate a Union international involving England.
Run the Pay TV line until the cows come home it still doesn’t hide the fact that those rating are very very poor. Even some NRL games on FOX Sports in AUS outrate that so called union international between AUS and ENG.
Colin N said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:39am | Report comment
“I was waiting for that line of arguement. So now you are blaming it on Pay TV for Rugby’s poor ratings”
Well, what’s Sky Sports subscription rate?
If you wanted to know, Wales-New Zealand pulled 1.9 million and averaged 2.3 million.
Cheezel said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:55am | Report comment
Thanks Colin,
Wales the rugby kings playing the AB’s and that’s all they can manage? Now it’s becoming embarrassing for Union. All the union trolls have been jumping all over this article flying the Union flag and telling us all how much better Union is in League. lol….and the two kings of rugby just manage to break 2 million viewers?
I don’t know about you Colin but I think you should not have posted those figures as it further highlights rugby’s poor ratings in the UK. Football is king with League and Union fighting over the scraps. Looks like Union’s scraps are gettin smaller and smaller. Just to think that the SOO gets over 3 million viewers 3 times a year in a country with a very small population compared to the UK.
It just gets worse for union
Colin N said | November 10th 2009 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Cheezel,
But it’s more than League.
“We all know the game of Union is on the nose and the TV stats above and in Australia prove it.”
You posted this, but my stats disproved it. You’re changing the focus to suit your argument.
“No wonder league it taking off internationally the 2 products just don’t compare”
Really? Many people disagree, including ardent League fans.
“All the union trolls”
Oh the irony…
“I don’t know about you Colin but I think you should not have posted those figures as it further highlights rugby’s poor ratings in the UK. Football is king with League and Union fighting over the scraps”
So, if football is ‘king’, and the two rugby codes are fighting over the ’scraps,’ does that necessarlily mean the ratings are poor? A slight contradcition there.
“League will always be the faster more inovative game while Union lives in the past with slow and boring play.”
Fanstastic!!! I am myself a League fan, but my preference is Union. Why are you stating it is ‘boring’ when it is so subjective. It’s as stereotypical as saying League is one dimensional, with the 6 tackle rule etc.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 8:55am | Report comment
show those figures.
another example of leaguies making up and manipulating figures
Cheezel said | November 10th 2009 @ 9:12am | Report comment
What figures are you after? Do I need to make you look silly any more then you are?
Look I will give you a sneak peak of how bad rugby is going down under and some figures for the SOO for you to. If you would like some more please let me know. This is starting to become fun. Nothing better then debating a Yawnion Lover who has no idea about the sport they follow.
Rugby League has the top 2 places in the top 50 programs in Australia up until the 22nd of August. The SOO really is the jewel in the crown for League in Australia.
http://www.thinktv.com.au/Media/Stats_&_Graphs/Top_Programs/Top_50_Programs_Weeks1_28_2009.pdf
Over all League has 6 programs in the top 50.
Other footy codes have a big fat zero
BN said | November 9th 2009 @ 8:04pm | Report comment
Lets look at the total/average crowd numbers for the Heineken Cup V’s NRL (last completed season) why don’t we,
Heineken Cup- Total 1,177,064 / Avg 14,900 (2008-2009)
NRL- Total 3,081,849 / Avg 16,051 (2009).
The Brisbane Broncos (NRL) have had four games in 2009 that exceeded 40,000 (biggest 50,000+) and this years NRL Final was played before a sellout crowd of 82,538.
So please, tell me which rugby code has the biggest club competition?
oikee said | November 9th 2009 @ 8:53pm | Report comment
Thanks BN, i keep trying to tell this dude that the NRL is huge but he wont have it.. He thinks that rugby somewhere on the planet is going to manufest itself into a larger comp, what he dont realise is that we have a 30 round comp each year and rugby league in OZ is a growing sport, i would easily put that figure around 4 million when 2 new teams come into the comp. We are just starting to grow the game again after the war. Super league war that is, not AFL war.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 11:06am | Report comment
where are these league stats. they dont exist. the ratings one i mean. show me an actual figure where it demonstrates that 1M britons watched aus v france. u can not do it because as all leaguies do- u made it up
Colin N said | November 10th 2009 @ 11:10am | Report comment
“where are these league stats”
Here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/nov/09/tv-ratings-strictly-come-dancing
Working Class Rugger said | November 9th 2009 @ 9:33pm | Report comment
The Heineken Cup is the European Championship. It’s not a League. It’s played in pools. Less game than the NRL. Therefore its not a fair comparison. The Top 14 or Guiness Premiership are more appropriate.
King of the Gorganites said | November 9th 2009 @ 9:52pm | Report comment
and the top 14 and guinness premiership annhilate the ESL
upper class leaguie said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:01am | Report comment
Dude – stats!
Ok so the H-Cup, which is kinda like the UEFA champions league, has good attendance figures. Sweet!
But, otherwise:
Guinness Premiership = Average is 11, 786 with 132 games. Total 1,543,920
European Super League = Average is 9336 with 202 games. Total 1,792,536
Hardly an annihilation – note that Celtic, which is a new area the RL is trying to develop, has brought the average down somewhat, as has newly promoted Salford City – both teams averaged around 5,000 attendance
Last year the average was 10,338 (has previously been increasing every year before the addition of these two teams)
BUT: As I argue to my AFL buddies, attendance isnt everything – TV is a huge factor in RL.
Otherwise relevant is form and competitiveness, the English RL National Team (like Australian RU) isnt going too well at the moment, especially in terms of winning games, and this has a huge impact on crowds.
King of the Gorganites said | November 9th 2009 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
the HC has grown from an average crowd of 6K in 96 to 15K in 08. almost a 250% increade. not bad i suggest. another thing to consider is that the HC average is only for regular matches and not finals, unlike the figures used for the NRL. i note that the ESL only averages 8K, whilst in 96 averaged 10K. its dropped whilst the HC has increased
Paley said | November 9th 2009 @ 10:26pm | Report comment
Rugby’s Super League average for the most recent season was 8,864 – the introduction of the Celtic Crusaders affected the overall average.
The average for the HC for 08/09 regular games was 12,231.
Although why this is relevant to an article about the upcoming England v Australa rugby final is anybodies guess.
Working Class Rugger said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:25am | Report comment
Upper Class Leaguie
First of all, nice name. Second, the ESL play 70 more games than the GP. If they both played a similar length season the the GP would be the clear winner. As for your point regarding TV ratings. Then I would argue that the Top 14 would comfortably have all other Rugby Comps (Union or League). Which is no surprise really considering the population bases.
upper class leaguie said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:57am | Report comment
Thanks for the compliment on the name – you picked up on that one? Sweet.
You echoed my point exactly about the number of games – while the league average is down, they play around 80 more games. If there were less ESL games, the crowds would be up. This is just like the Super 14 in Australia – if they played a similar amount of games to the NRL, the crowd averages would decrease significantly.
My main statement was that there was no “annihilation” as the King eluded to – around 2,000 difference in average crowd when there is a large difference in the amount of games played doesn’t amount to an annihilation.
PS – Currie Cup 11,000 average, French Union top 14 12,000 average,
NRL 16,500 average with less population base, and rising.
But, like I said, crowd averages arent everything – the AFL crowd average rivals the English Premier League – but they are hardly comparable leagues in terms of revenue, worldwide support, international game etc.
steve said | November 9th 2009 @ 11:26pm | Report comment
super 14 has a bigger crowd average than the nrl
upper class leaguie said | November 9th 2009 @ 11:38pm | Report comment
….dude, theres four teams and like six games a year or something.
Norm said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Super 14 represents the 2nd tier of Australian rugby; the valid comparison is with SoO where 3 SoO matches drew 1.5 times the aggregate crowd of the 6 all Aust super games. The NRL compared to the Shute shield is a no contest.
Mr cheese said | November 10th 2009 @ 4:45am | Report comment
Do you really think that RL gets heaps of exposure all around Europe ?? I think it’s unlikely. I watched the game between England and NZ. I was glad we won. However, you must realise that this is taking place at the same time as RU’s autumn internationals. That means that any Rugby publicity will go to those. There are bigger crowds and the ‘papers assume ( understandably ) that there is much interest in the RU.
Seriously, Oikee, how can you saay that the Union competition in France is laughable ? They get decent crowds and, on occasion, their crowds are terrific.
I don’t know how good your French is. Look up “souvenirs en melee” on Youtube. It’s a French TV programme marking the 500th match on the Canal Plus tv station.
Look at the interest in RU over there The enthusiasm and crowds etc.
The Answer said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:17pm | Report comment
I know I’m probably talking to a school kid here but the reason that selling out Croke Park would have been unheard of ten years ago has nothing to do with the growth of rugby in Ireland but rather down to the fact that rugby was banned at Croke Park.The GAA finally took the cash and opened it for football and union.
Now, I think I hear your mother calling.
pothale said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:37pm | Report comment
No that would not be the entire reason. Obviously having a larger facility helps but the demand has to be there for the tickets. The GAA have opened it temporarily until Lansdowne is completed in June next year.
Professionalism and higher profile of particular players such as O’Driscoll, O’Gara and O’Connell has driven the game hugely in Ireland. The professional layer is doing very well, and the starter clubs and kids levels are out the door. The problem bit is in the middle at senior club level where money and playing talent are missing.
The game has grown substantially, and whatever about selling out Aus or SA in Lansdowne, Fiji certainly wouldn’t have. There are still tix left for all three games – Fiji probably won’t be sold out, the others will.
The Answer said | November 10th 2009 @ 3:24am | Report comment
“King” or Junior as we like to call him seems to think Fiji has already sold out. So it is fair to say that he is a liar at this point. I hope he is more accurate with his homework. Teachers tend to frown on that sort of stuff.
King of the Gorganites said | November 9th 2009 @ 9:55pm | Report comment
I am certainly not a kid. regardless, does age determine wisdom. i am well aware of the history of croke park. i have had the pleasure of attending two all ireland finals. my point remains that a deca ago rugby would not have had the poularity or demand for tickets to force the GAA to ammend there rules for rugby (and soccer). the fact is that rugby fills up croke park 6 times a year, whilst the GAA fills it up twice.
there is no doubting the growth of rugby in ireland.
pothale said | November 9th 2009 @ 11:24pm | Report comment
The GAA fills it up twice?
Check again.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 8:57am | Report comment
yes for the football final and the hurling final. the dubs can get crowds of 60K +. this season only two seel outs, but still very good for an ameatur game. there is no doubt that the GA is the best supported code in irealnd, with rugby second
Darcy said | November 10th 2009 @ 5:44am | Report comment
The Fiji match is being played at the RDS…Capacity of roughly 18,000.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 8:57am | Report comment
WRONG. they are playing at croke park
Matt S said | November 9th 2009 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
gee King,
for someone who doesn’t like the game, you sure waste a lot of time on it.
Cheezel said | November 9th 2009 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
I have watched all the four nations games and England has improved over the last 3 weeks. On the other hand Australia seem to be going in reverse. England have their best chance in a long time of beating Australia. Great to see international rugby league so strong. The Pacific Cup and European Cup have been a great success and will be something to build on moving forward. I am looking forward to the Four Nations down under in 2010 with PNG involved. It should be a shot in the arm for their NRL bid.
I see some yawnion supporters have jumped on to bag the crowds. That’s fair enough but i think they need to have a look in their own backyard. Union in Australia is in a bad state and still going down hill. Big crowds at international level is great but at club level Union struggles with both crowds and TV viewers because the game has become bogged down with dodgy rules and negative play. NZ Rugby also has it’s crowd and TV viewing issues. Not good leading into the World Cup.
Rugby League is starting to do what it should have done a long time ago and that’s expand the game outside the big 3. France were once a power house until “You guessed it” corrupt union official in power in France during World War II banned the game. The Rugby Union officials have been running scared ever since waiting for the day that Rugby League got it’s act together. Well finally they have and the Four Nations is a result of that.
M1tch said | November 9th 2009 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
The aussie v poms game though we looked alot faster in everything we did, the england backs cant rush up like they did, otherwise it will be another blow out
Mick from Giralang said | November 9th 2009 @ 6:14pm | Report comment
That’s a good point cheezel. Union in France will be forever tainted by its Vichy patronage. Makes you wonder how any patriotic French person could support the game.
Matt S said | November 9th 2009 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
Mick, the Asssies have conditioned the refs. One just had to look at the Kiwi ref against France. He was a shocker and penalised the poor French out of the game. It is a typical tactic of the Roos to condition the refs to favour them becasue they fear the backlash and crticism.
Mick from Giralang said | November 9th 2009 @ 6:16pm | Report comment
I hope you’re right Matt!
oikee said | November 9th 2009 @ 3:27pm | Report comment
If its wet, the Poms might win, if its dry, we might get up. Either way, shot in the arm for rugby league, what a 4 nations it has been. That 6 thousand crowd at Paris got their moneys worth, the French scored a try.
King of the Gorganites said | November 9th 2009 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
you are joking mate. all of the tickets would have been free. french RL would have lost money on the game. wouldnt it be disheartening for a palyer to play infront of such a small crowd.
stade francasi fill up stade de france (80K) 3 times a year for regular season games.
four nations! whats the difference between the 4 nations and the world cup? nothing. the winner of the WC is going to be one of the 3 teams from the 4N.
Norm said | November 9th 2009 @ 5:15pm | Report comment
Compared to international rugby international league is a joke? Compared to international soccer international rugby is a joke? What are the crowds to watch international rugby in Sao Paulo, Mexico City, Beijing, Jakarta, Cairo, Lagos, Berlin and Moscow? Will you still keep your clown face on when the soccer boys dish it up to international rugby the way you do to international league? There are many variations on a joke and it’s usually the dimwitted that fail to see it.
silver said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:32pm | Report comment
Why bring up soccer fool! Stick to league when trying to back up your argument.
Norm said | November 9th 2009 @ 9:36pm | Report comment
As I have already observed the dimwitted fail to see the nuances of farce.
King of the Gorganites said | November 9th 2009 @ 9:58pm | Report comment
weak response norm. we are talking rugby and league here. the fact is rugby people dont make up growth like leaguies do.
Norm said | November 9th 2009 @ 10:20pm | Report comment
Why don’t you tell us about the growth of the Shute Shield? Compared to the NRL that is a joke.
oikee said | November 9th 2009 @ 6:04pm | Report comment
Rugby league does not give away free tickets, unlike union, hence the large crowds. I even saw some fake dummies in one union crowd, you at that game King of the snoozenites.
Hey listen to this Kingy, rugby league is a growing sport, and you can do bugger-all about it, kick, clap, scream.
Have to admit, love your passion for rugby league, only a grown man would squel the way you do with rugby leagues growth, world-wide.
danwighton said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:03pm | Report comment
King –
I can understand RU people coming from all over to post their opinion in an article about code wars, but I am unsure why people come on to a discussion forum about a particular match or series just to throw stones.
Yes, RU is bigger Southern England, and bigger by far in France, but RL is bigger in Australia. If the UK Rugby side played a tour match against the Broncos there would be a strong crowd. RL is working hard to grow, and is kicking along moderately well outside its heartlands.
Union in the UK has seen a surge in popularity since the World Cup win – but the biggest barrier to league in the UK is the strength of the NRL and the Australasian teams’ dominance. It was not that long ago that Aus v GB/England League matches were played in front of huge crowds in both countries – the main difference being Australia’s dominance. If the English team become more competitive, the crowds will surge also.
RL has had a presence in France for a long time – France has historically been competitive, regularly beating Aus and Eng in the 70s. However, the game fell into a state of neglect and is only recently being revived. The crowd in Paris for the Australia game was 8,757, which took place outside a Rugby area (both codes are more popular in the south). I agree that the stadium looked empty, but those who were there were very vocal whenever the French were on the attack. The crowd for the NZ game in Toulouse was 12,412, which is a better indication as it was in the game’s heartland.
It is a real shame that RL administrators werent more forward thinking, they could have definitely rammed home their advantage before RU went professional – but thats all history, and I am glad that the IRL are taking steps to grow the game now.
On the match –
Otherwise, I am looking forward to this final and the (likely) crowd of 40,000 will provide great atmosphere to what is hopefully a close fought game. I really liked what I saw from Sam Burgess, and Morley and Ellis always perform well. The match will also be a great opportunity for some of the younger outside backs to step up, having now achieved a few matches under their belts. I think the English would be pleased with their team’s performances, especially considering this is a rebuilding phase with the blooding of young talent.
danwighton said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:06pm | Report comment
By the way – where did you hear that all the tickets were free?
I have a friend backpacking through France, who bought tickets for the game for approx 15 euro(25/30 AU$). He said there wasn’t much promotion of the game in Paris, but that he definitely needed to pay to get in!
PJ said | November 10th 2009 @ 5:58am | Report comment
King u r a goose. Stade give away 1000’s of free tickets to games at stade de france, they eve have special promotions where all women are free etc
Paley said | November 9th 2009 @ 6:46pm | Report comment
What a shame that these articles always attract the rah rah trolls with their pointless arguments and misinformation.
I have thoroughly enjoyed the rugby in the 4 nations and I am looking forward to a great final – Australia will be huge favourites but English rugby has learned a trick or 2 during this competition and Tony Smith seems more sure of his starting 13.
oikee said | November 9th 2009 @ 7:58pm | Report comment
I heard that all the tickets to the Wales All-blacks game were free,? Apparently the Welsh were out troll hunting and had to entice them back to the game somehow.
prowling panther said | November 9th 2009 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
If this game is half as good as the RLWC final, the 4 nations tournament is easily a success despite what the rah rah people say. That game was almost origin-like and the haka was spine tingling entertainment. 40000 poms will have a say in this game. Twould be nice to see some pre match talk to hype things up
Anakin said | November 9th 2009 @ 8:24pm | Report comment
not much has been said about it, but what happened to the Ashes batle? Was it taken on the round clash or the Final? What if these two teams had not met in the final? Steve – anyone?????
Paley said | November 9th 2009 @ 8:34pm | Report comment
Rugby’s ashes were between Australia and the Lions. The Lions aren’t playing in this competition so there will be no Ashes.
upper class leaguie said | November 10th 2009 @ 1:38am | Report comment
Anakin was referring to the League ashes – they decided against putting the ashes up for grabs, even though it was at one stage on the table.
The eventual decision, as Oikee said, will probably be to play for the ashes in 2012.
Paley said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:10am | Report comment
I was referring to the same Ashes as Anakin.
oikee said | November 9th 2009 @ 8:48pm | Report comment
The ashes was called off before it gained traction. The rlif saw sense that it was not in the best interests of the code to have the ashes taken lightly. We have a spare year in 2012 with nothing on the agenda, so we might see a battle for the ashes take shape.
Crosscoder said | November 9th 2009 @ 9:06pm | Report comment
King of the G.
I suggest you spend a little time looking at the amazing ru calculator .Last time we heard 4.5billion watching the union world cup.
Didn’t realise China and India were so into Johnny wilkinson.
Now please ole chap let us discuss a rl tournament,without you telling us all how wonderfully big your code is on the intnl stage,despite the fact it is the national sport of really one country NZ and a couple of Pacific islands.
i didn’;t see a heading my code is bigger than yours to start this thread.Talk about insecurity.
King of the Gorganites said | November 9th 2009 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
your point is?
upper class leaguie said | November 9th 2009 @ 10:31pm | Report comment
Yes yes yes, we all know that RU on an international level is the bigger game – but realistically only five teams can win the RU WC, as opposed to 3 in the RL – not that different really.
Soccer, and to a lesser extent cricket, are much more “global” team sports – the WC winners could be any of 8-10 teams (7 have won the soccer WC, five have won the cricket wc, four have won the RU WC, three have won the RL WC). Therefore, while RU is played in more countries, realistically it is not as international as you think.
RU is also experiencing a false economy – millionaire owners pouring money into teams with moderate crowd figures and moderate success. If this dries up (and there is no guarantee it will), RU is in more trouble, especially if the new NRL TV deal enables a salary cap increase to a level similar to the AFL – i.e. $7m. This will enable teams to free up the money to compete with the French and UK leagues – thats Wilkinson, Carter kind of money.
Colin N said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:47am | Report comment
“Yes yes yes, we all know that RU on an international level is the bigger game – but realistically only five teams can win the RU WC, as opposed to 3 in the RL – not that different really.”
No, but it’s more competitive. The like of Fiji aren’t going to win the Union World Cup, but they put up a great fight against South Africa and were very close to beating them.
Didn’t Fiji play Australia play in the Semi-Final of the Rugby League World Cup and were beaten 52-0?
Working Class Rugger said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:54am | Report comment
UCL
Not really. The GP has had a salry cap forced on it but neither the Top 14 or Top League do. And considering Stade spends more than $35 million on talent annually, its safe to say if they want someone in the NRL no club would be able to compete. For the record. There are 116 officially recognised Unions. 95 are full ranking member;s whilst the other’s are affilates awaiting qualification. Currently their are 12 who are one or two international caps from doing so. You have to play more than 10 to be ranked.
Ian Noble said | November 11th 2009 @ 1:57am | Report comment
The salary cap in the GP is circa £4M (8M Aus $), France Top 14 has no limit. The financial structure of each team in the GP is carefully scrutinised by PR (Premier Rugby), the body that runs the GP. As to the individual ownership, if you take Quins as an example, 95% of the share capital is vested in 2 individuals. During their ownership they have seen the club grow from average crowds of 5000 to just under 12000 last year. They own the Stoop and have recently completed the construction of a new stand to increase the capacity to 14500. Their business plan is built around achieving an average gate of 12,000. In a Q and A session the CEO indicated a turnover of approx £12M. It looks as thouigh they will achieve that target this year which will show a nice profit for the investors if they decided to sell their investment. What would Quins as a brand be worth I would hazard a guess of circa £80-100M with a cracking rugby stadium.
Clubs such as Leicester, Worcester, Northampton, Gloucester, and Newcastle own their own grounds, with Newcastle having entered into an innovative agreement with Northumbria University relating to their facilities. London Irish and Saracens play at football league clubs on advantageous terms, Bath and Wasps are owned by individuals and are desperate to increase ground capacities to cope with demand, but both have had planning problems with their present grounds. Leeds share with Leeds Rhinos and are the small sister.
There is no false economy as all these clubs are run on a sensible basis and have brands and property assets which underwrite the investment by individuals. Of course there is a risk, but provided the revenue stream is maintained on the back of realistic forecasting then there is no problem. The major plus is that crowds have been growing steadily since 2003 and Sky have been keen to increase their coverage of Rugby Union as they see as an opportunity to increase the number of satelitte dishes in the UK. It will be interesting to see if they are succesful.
Working Class Rugger said | November 11th 2009 @ 2:02am | Report comment
Ian
Once again you have proved to be a invaluable source of information. Cheers.
MyGeneration said | November 9th 2009 @ 10:37pm | Report comment
King, the point is why does an insecure Rugger troll want to hijack a thread which was purely about Rugby League. There are plenty of other threads devoted to comparisons between the games. You should know. You’re on some of them.
Do you have an opinion on the final? Do you think England are legit, or have the Kangaroos just been foxing? If you don’t care, you don’t matter.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 8:59am | Report comment
i will be watching. as i always do.
i think if the aussies can get off to a strong start and have a lead at half time then its game over. however, if the poms can lead at the break the crowd will bring them home in the 2nd half
im quite fond of league, but it is the leaguies that started the code war in the late 90s (after australia won the 99 rwc).
MyGeneration said | November 10th 2009 @ 11:24am | Report comment
How and why did you pick that date? Please enlighten me on which version of the code war you’re referring to, and, if possible, why you have decided to fight it on this thread, presuming you’re not operating in a permanent war economy state. I’ve always thought the code war started about 1895 (funny that), and has been pretty aggressively fought by Rugbys Union and League since that time. It’s a matter of opinion whether it was started by the Northerners who wanted broken time payments, or by the Southerners who refused their demands. This is the first I’ve heard of “leaguies” starting the code war after the 99 RWC.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 3:07pm | Report comment
i was referring to, what i consider the first war fought when both rugbys were professional. the orirginal skism is not for discussion here, and was not what i was referring to. during the 20th century in oz there was no war, as RL dominated RU. However, when Ru turned professional that all changed, and the hostility against RU began. this hostility i am referring to was instigated by the media and soon went into the phsche of RL supporters. i used the 99 RWC as the the starting date as this was the first WC of the professional era. prior to this it was unlcear whether professional RU would prosper. the 99 WC was a resounding success. massive crowds, ratings, and classic games.
after this period of time there was a notable shift in RL identies opinions of RU. it became openly agressive. as such ‘the war” had begun. prior to this time it was easier to support both codes. as rugby was amateur for so long there were few RU only supporters. most RU supporters also supported RL. however, the actions of the league media, and leaguies generally, made RU supporters pick a side as such. RL argued that one was greater then the other, therefore supporters felt obliged to pick a side.
the channel 9 commentary is a classic example of this. andrew voss, fatty and co. would actualy belittle RU during RL telecasts. this lead, to people like myseld turning the volume off and eventually the TV off. it was league that started this code war of the past decade, not RU.
MyGeneration said | November 10th 2009 @ 5:26pm | Report comment
Well, that’s your reading of it, but it sounds like a lot of the war is going on in your head. From where I stand, there has always been a fair bit of hostility from the Union side, not to mention the practices Union always put in place to hamstring League wherever/whenever it could, so trying to say one side or other started the code war on such-and-such a date is fairly bizarre to say the least.
I don’t think the war suddenly started when Union went professional, although that certainly put more pressure on both sides and escalated things, so I agree with that point, but I’d date the escalation fairly and squarely around the advent of professionalism, 1995. There was always a war of sorts before that. It’s true it was easier to support both codes beforehand, but they weren’t in open economic conflict. Having said that, it’s possible to put all the bullshit aside and support both codes now. The war only lasts as long both sides want to play.
To be honest, some of the worst code warriors I’ve met are Kiwis who’ve moved over here and can’t believe we’re not all living-and-dieing by the Bledisloe like they are, and they mainly blame Rugby League. Of course, the majority are quite sane and just add League and/or AFL to their list of things to do when they get here, whilst maintaining their love for Union. That’s my experience, anyway.
And no, I’m not ruling out the importance of the original schism just because you’ve decided on an arbitrary point to start history from.
Working Class Rugger said | November 10th 2009 @ 3:00am | Report comment
MyGen
Kangaroo’s will finally click and beat England soundly. Alot been made of the Poms but honestly in their game against the Roo’s it was obvious that only one team came back onto the field after half time. The Kangaroo’s were already thinking about sightseeing in Paris. Feel free to disagree but the lacked composure and at times interest in that half and the English couldn’t finish them off. As for last weekend. The Kiwi’s played stupid RL.Just plain terrible. Benji Marshall didn’t show up and for the most part were rudderless. If Lockyer and Thurston find that combination once again this weekend Aus will win reasonably comfortably.
MyGeneration said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:32am | Report comment
Don’t disagree at all, WCR. Just happy to talk about footy (on this particular thread).
Paley said | November 10th 2009 @ 3:18am | Report comment
There is no doubt that if the Kangaroos play to their potential they will beat England but if England can stop them playing the rugby they are comfortable with then England have the potential to win. It’s a huge ask but it’s not beyond the realms of possibility.
Working Class Rugger said | November 10th 2009 @ 4:06am | Report comment
UCL
Yes, but what if the GP played 70 more games with there average which is growing. It been quoted that the Crusader’s and I think Salford have dragged the averages down, which is true, however, from the to drag them down by more than 2,000 spectators over a 26 week season is a little unrealistic.
As for the Top 14 averages. This year many of the Top 14 clubs have outsourced larger grounds to maintian demand.And many are upgrading grounds to 20,000 seater;s or have plans to do so in the near future. So the Top 14 and GP for that matter are also growing. My comment on the T14 being the largest was in regards to TV ratings. Which are the largest, after all Rugby is a close 2nd to Soccer in France and there are more than 60 million people in the country.
Paley said | November 10th 2009 @ 4:33am | Report comment
Isn’t there a union article you could comment on? None of the above has anything to do with the England v Australia rugby game this weekend.
Jerry said | November 10th 2009 @ 4:51am | Report comment
Pot, kettle anyone? I can’t imagine you’d ever pop into a thread about Union to raise an entirely irrelevant point Gort.
And the England v Australia rugby game was last weekend, they’re playing Argentina and Ireland respectively this weekend. Do keep up.
Paley said | November 10th 2009 @ 5:14am | Report comment
My posts are, for the most part, relevant to the article. There was an England v Australia rugby game last weekend – there is also one this weekend.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 11:08am | Report comment
spot on…the top 14, the GP and the HC are all gorwing.
magners league is strong but has teams such as connact and glasgow that keep averages down. watch out for the italians to come into the magners and bring with it fanatical support from italy
Working Class Rugger said | November 10th 2009 @ 4:08am | Report comment
UCL
BTW, I picked up on your Roar name immediately. Clever.
jus de couchon said | November 10th 2009 @ 5:45am | Report comment
I may be watching the Kangarross/G.B/England game this weekend if it doesnt coincide wif more interesting rugby games. It might be a good game . The R.L agenda is driven however by those that beleive producing a promotion/media driven hyped up load of tosh about grown men chasing a ball around a soggy field means anything.
MyGeneration said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:23am | Report comment
Ok, I’ll bite. And the Union agenda is what exactly?
Paley said | November 10th 2009 @ 8:20am | Report comment
Grown men kicking a ball out of the soggy field, presumably
MyGeneration said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:23am | Report comment
BTW, using your own analogy from another thread, this thread is absolutely cancerous with Union trolls.
Crosscoder said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:33am | Report comment
King of the G.
My point is simply the irrelevancy of throwing in union crowds ,when we are discussing the Kangaroos are favourites to smash England. You threw union crowds in from left field,I responded with crowds as per the union calculator.
Your reap what you sow.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 9:00am | Report comment
yous started it.
as for the game….roos by 8
Crosscoder said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:39am | Report comment
I too will be watching the England V Kangaroos rugby game this weekend.Don’t know about the union tests though.
jus de couchon said | November 10th 2009 @ 8:47am | Report comment
May watch all with a bit of luck . Some of you antipodes see my crits as an attack on your “greatest Game in the World”. In reality Im frustrated by Leagues innability to see a way to grow the game without the next b.s idea dreamed up by marketing people who havent a clue .
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 11:11am | Report comment
have any of you leaguies seen the trailers for the new rugby movie called ‘ Invictus’. Its a movie about nelson mandela and the 1995 WC. its made by the legendary Clint Eastwood and starts Morgan Freeman and Matt Damon. Already talk of oscars. This movie will do massive things for rugby in the US, and all around the globe.
what was the last league movie made? something startting the disgraced matty johns. ha.
MyGeneration said | November 10th 2009 @ 11:36am | Report comment
You’re right, it was the Final Winter and Matty Johns played a supporting role. Got good reviews too. A very unsentimental, gritty look at the game in the 80s it was, more a kitchen sink drama than anything else. Before that we had This Sporting Life in 1963 (once again very unsentimental and gritty): Nominated for 2 Oscars (not just “talk of…”), Rachel Roberts won a BAFTA and Richard Harris won best actor at Cannes, also nominated for Golden Globes. So how many Rugby Union movies have won awards? And the point of this latest digression?
Mick from Giralang said | November 10th 2009 @ 11:52am | Report comment
MG: What a terrific movie it was…evocative of the suburban tribalism that continues to make rugby league so relevant to communities today…it’s the sort of spiritual reasonance that the union cheerleaders will never, ever undersatnd.
MyGeneration said | November 10th 2009 @ 11:57am | Report comment
I don’t think the King’s interested in spiritual resonance. He’s a “mine’s bigger than yours” kind of guy.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
that was 46 years ago. and what did it do for RL internationally? nothing.
im suggesting that a movie on the scale of “invictus” with its 90m budget, legendary director, and all star cast will be a great boost for rugby all around the world. u cant deny that?
MyGeneration said | November 10th 2009 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Well, I’ll be fascinated to see how 5ft 10in Matt Damon portrays 6ft 3in Francois Pienaar but, until the movie comes out and we’re not relying on Hollywood marketing spin, I really don’t know what effect it will have on anything and why on earth you are bringing it up. I did answer your question, though. I have asked you a few more here and further up.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
hollywood can do incredible things. it can make Russel seem like a nice guy, a big buy, a funny guy etc. so it will have to issue making matt damon 5 inches taller.
i have answered your earlier q above
Jerry said | November 10th 2009 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
Not a problem, they just make everyone else 5 inches shorter and about 10-15kg lighter.
Paley said | November 10th 2009 @ 4:53pm | Report comment
It will be interesting to see how the film portrays unions relationship with apartheid. If the film is honest I can’t seeing it being a great shot in the arm for union.
Ian Noble said | November 12th 2009 @ 1:16am | Report comment
The main point of the film is the drive by Mandella to use the RWC and a successful team SA team as a means to break racial barriers. Previously the black followers tended to support the teams who played against SA primarily because the Springboks was predominately supported by the whites. As I read it, there are still tensions but SA has come along way and the RWC1995 was considered a major watershed in the transistion to a multiracial society.
Whether it will help to sell rugby is unknown, but it is a strong story and I see from reviews that it is being touted as an Oscar nominee. I suppose on reflection if it a box office success then it will help the awareness of rugby particularly in the States, Matt Damon and Morgan Freeman are the lead actors. A little different from the only RL film I can recall which starred Richard Harris in the lead role, perhaps you can remind me of the title.
Paley said | November 12th 2009 @ 1:24am | Report comment
The rugby film starring Richard Harris is This Sporting Life – it was nominated for 2 Oscars, it won 1 BAFTA and was nominated for 4 others, it won an award at the CannesFilm Festival as well as being nominated for the Palme d’Or, it was also nominated for 2 Golden Globes.
As for the union film it will be interesting to see how it portrays union and if it shows how union was a central pillar of the apartheid regime and did so much to support it. Regardless, the South African team boring everybody to death in the final is unlikely to make for a great film so I trust they won’t be showing much of the “action”
Ian Noble said | November 12th 2009 @ 2:27am | Report comment
That is the film, if I recall plenty of mud, hard drinking and altogether an excellent film. However I knew about the Bafta, but I don’t recall the Oscar nominations.
With Invictus I suspect the RWC is a back drop to the main thrust of the story about breaking down racial barriers in SA. It has to be, although Matt Damon spent weeeks being coached by Pienaar how to pass a rugby ball etc, it will be too obvious that he doesn’t have clue, if the Final was featured too much. Unlike Richard Harris, if I recall he did his own stunts and was decent rugby player . The other great Welsh actor who was very keen on his rugby and was also a decent player was Richard Burton.
Mick from Giralang said | November 10th 2009 @ 11:48am | Report comment
Don’t forget the rugby league is on at the relatively viewer-friendly time of 6 am on Sunday on Nine (Eastern Daylight Saving time). Haven’t drunk a beer for breakfast for a long, long time….
MyGeneration said | November 10th 2009 @ 11:54am | Report comment
The beer’ll taste great straight after my usual Sunday morning half-marathon.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
can anyone give me some resounding evidence that league is gorwing internationally?
Mick from Giralang said | November 10th 2009 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
Why do you care?
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 3:51pm | Report comment
france is meant to be the 4th largest RL country, yet on its participation figures and recent test crowds it isnt even on par with Romania in RU, which is not even in the top 20 RU countries.
stick to your domestic game boys
Pippinu said | November 10th 2009 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
I would have thought that PNG is the 4th largest RL country.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 4:22pm | Report comment
debateable. strength wise PNG probably slightly infront. crowd support PNG infront. however, france has a professional team, and is in a country of 80M. that was my basis for saying they are number 4 RL country, even though they may not be 4th best.
Paley said | November 10th 2009 @ 4:55pm | Report comment
You seem to think that union is some sort of bench mark. It isn’t and, frankly, unionites should be very careful when discussing the relative popularity of rugby and union in France.
Mick from Giralang said | November 10th 2009 @ 5:30pm | Report comment
Paley, don’t mention the war!
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 6:28pm | Report comment
would u like to elaborate paley.
the RWC 07 quater between france and the ABs rated as high as the 98 soccer world cup final involving france. rugby is massive in france, particularly in paris and the south. may b not as big as soccer, but a close 2nd
Paley said | November 10th 2009 @ 6:36pm | Report comment
That might be an interesting point for a union article. This isn’t a union article. The ratings for a game of union in france have nothing to do with the upcoming rugby game between England and Australia.
MyGeneration said | November 10th 2009 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
Nah, sorry, got an international to watch on Sunday morning. Didn’t you say you’d be watching, as you always do?
kick,clap,kick said | November 10th 2009 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
Just a few facts for the Union trolls.
Union is on the nose in OZ …badly on the nose.
The last attempt to start a national comp was laughable ….crowds of 1000-5000(very rare to hit 5)
The ARU had TO PAY the ABC 150K to show it…says it all really.
A few yrs ago ONE super Saturday of League(one night) outrated the WHOLE SUPER 14 SEASON(both on pay tv).
The Bledisloes get outrated by FRI night NRL club games.
Just thought a reality check for the misinformed was ineeded.
King of the Gorganites said | November 10th 2009 @ 6:26pm | Report comment
6K in paris says it all
PJ said | November 10th 2009 @ 8:02pm | Report comment
again, it was 8500, a stack of kids and ethnic minorities, the game of the people. Rugger is not big in Paris at all, that is a myth. can some one give me stade’s average crowds at their normal home games please? this reflects their real appeal. Their home ground has a capacity of 12,000.
Paley said | November 10th 2009 @ 8:25pm | Report comment
Up to round 9 of the T14 Stade haven’t had a crowd of over 9000 yet – the other paris union club haven’t had a crowd of over 8000 yet.
I am not sure what that has to do with the England v Australia rugby game though.
PJ said | November 11th 2009 @ 12:33am | Report comment
nothing at all Paley, but I cannot sit by whilst blatant lies are told about the game in Paris.
King of the Gorganites said | November 12th 2009 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
Paley,
once again not an official source. regardless, i note that u took the figures up to round nine (weekending 16 Oct). on 24 Oct stade got 80K to play perpginan.
so based on your stats…..plus the 80K…stade has an average of……20K+. with 3 more games at stade, that average will get up to 30K for the end of the year.
also note the crowd of 55K toulon got.
King of the Gorganites said | November 11th 2009 @ 10:14am | Report comment
once again league lies. stade averages 16K (excluding games played at stade de france). 3-4 times a year thet get crowds of 80K. then there are the finals……once again league lies based on no facts
only 3 weeks ago they played toulouse in front of 80K
Jannerboyuk said | November 11th 2009 @ 10:55pm | Report comment
16k average in a stadium that holds 12k? wow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stade_Jean-Bouin
Max Guazzini is a genuis though and will play five games at the stade de france next year so it loos like he his moving towards maybe most games being held there. guy knows what he is doing.
Paley said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:54pm | Report comment
I got my stats from the official website of the T14:
http://www.lnr.fr/Client/asp/championnat/statsdyn/StatsStadetop14.asp?CleCompet=112695
Clearly you believe you have other statistics to hand. Please provide a link.
kick,clap,kick said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:21pm | Report comment
6K in Paris ….
At least we didn’t inflate our crowd numbers with Inflatable dolls.
Colin N said | November 10th 2009 @ 10:46pm | Report comment
“At least we didn’t inflate our crowd numbers with Inflatable dolls”
It was a good story that, but it did only take place at Nottingham rugby club (I believe). It wasn’t exactly a top side who did it.
PJ said | November 11th 2009 @ 2:02am | Report comment
Just to juice things up a little, and it is only early days but the next few years are very exciting for international rugby league.
http://www.lindependant.com/articles/2009-…eague-74483.php
now for those who can’t be bothered, this article is about stade france’s ambition to enter a team into super league. Along with a hopefully successful application from Toulouse the sun is peaking through the clouds.
Working Class Rugger said | November 11th 2009 @ 2:11am | Report comment
PJ
The ownwer of Stade was actually at the game. From the turnout, don’t expect to see a Stade RL team in the near future.
Paley said | November 11th 2009 @ 2:58am | Report comment
Before the Stade owner took them over Stade Francais were barely supported at all – even with the huge press coverage they get they still don’t come close to filling the small stadium they mostly use yet they still manage to get big crowds at the Stade de France because of the owners marketing expertise and media muscle. There is no reason why he couldn’t do the same for a Super League rugby team in Paris.
PJ said | November 11th 2009 @ 3:39am | Report comment
WCR I was at the game as well, I expect that the interest is still there especially given that no more than 10,000 was expected in any event. 8500 was not a bad turn out considering the plight of rl in France.
King of the Gorganites said | November 11th 2009 @ 10:16am | Report comment
what did the stadium hold? because it was only 1/3 full. dont tell me it holds 24K
Jannerboyuk said | November 11th 2009 @ 10:52pm | Report comment
20k apparently although ive heard 22k.
http://cityzeum.com/en/stade-charlety
Ian Noble said | November 11th 2009 @ 3:25am | Report comment
Paley
What RL needs in the SL and France is one or two wealthly benefactors who can bring marketing and financial expertise to the game; raise the profile and sell the game more aggressively. At the moment it is amateurish and the tendency to overhype is counterproductive when it falls on it’s face. Personalities such as Russell Crowe would add charisma as it always seem that RL is stuck in timewarp and is comfortable wihin it’s heartland. Coming down from Lancashire to work in London and seeing a wider picture has opened my eyes RL has missed so many opportunities and now that union as a professional game is getting into it’s stride it will slip further behind unless it can harness some entrepreneural expertise.
Paley said | November 11th 2009 @ 4:26am | Report comment
What tendency to overhype? Which opportunities has RL missed?
There are several wealthy individuals already involved with Super League clubs.
I am sure your “we’re not in kansas anymore” moment in London was a revelation for you but what it has to do with the upcoming rugby game between England and Australia is anybodies guess.
Ian Noble said | November 12th 2009 @ 1:22am | Report comment
Paley
RLWC2008 and the current 4 nations are probably a good examples. Anuway if you have a moment perhaps you give me some examples of entrepreneurs in RL. As a Quins RL STH I am aware of our main benefactor leaving the ship and taking over Wigan Warriors, thank god he continues to support the club up until to end of next season., it would be useful to have this info for my knowledge bank.
Paley said | November 12th 2009 @ 1:28am | Report comment
They are a good example of what?
Surely you know about the entrpreneurs in rugby league – Kinves Out informs us that rugby receives as much coverage in the briitish media as union so you must have read many articles about the club benefactors. Although it might be the case that you haven’t heard of them because none of them have lost as much money in rugby as their counterparts have in union.
Ian Noble said | November 12th 2009 @ 1:57am | Report comment
Paley
Overhyping.
Frankly a pathetic response, I do read the press and it was a perfectly reasonable question. If you don’t know then don’t please overstate the situation it does RL a dis-service. At least you could say there is a need for more financial input into the SL and XY and Z are examples of where entrepreneural input has been very benficial. Frankly I don’t see too much evidence perhaps ypu could answer the query. I am worried about Quins RL they had a poor finish to the season however there is potential but it urgently needs more finances to raise the profile.
By the way, if Eng can beat the Kangaroos then it be the best advertisement for RL for ages, but it a big ask.
Paley said | November 12th 2009 @ 2:41am | Report comment
I am not aware of any overhyping.
Off the top of my head there is Simon Moran at Warrington, Ken Davey at Huddersfield, Ian Lenagan at Wigan, Leighton Samuels at the Crusaders.
King of the Gorganites said | November 11th 2009 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
for proof of the strength of RU in france
http://frenchrugbyclub.com/Top-14/Top-14-2009-10/Top-14-Record-Crowds-000536.html
Crosscoder said | November 11th 2009 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
Again what has ru crowds or playing numbers in France got to do with England v the Kangaroos.
Anycase from about 18,000 registered rl player a few years ago,France now have 34,000.Regardless of whether farnarkling,union,or caber tossing have far bigger numbers in that country,the numbers are growing.
Amazing what can happen when the govt gives a code a fair go and does not restrict or hinder its activities.
PS would love to see what would happen if union had a SL war.
MyGeneration said | November 11th 2009 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
Some Unionites are still fighting the war of 1895/1908 on this thread.
King of the Gorganites said | November 11th 2009 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
dont u mean 1999? ha
MyGeneration said | November 11th 2009 @ 10:18pm | Report comment
No
King of the Gorganites said | November 11th 2009 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
its funny that the only place i have seen these figures reference are a rugby league webiste and the ever accurate daily telegraph. Show me an official french statistic that back these claims up. another example of leaguies making up numbers to suit a story
MyGeneration said | November 11th 2009 @ 10:28pm | Report comment
King, in pursuit of your one-man war against French Rugby League, you have previously given us figures from a French Rugby Union site. I don’t see any reason to give them any more credit as an “official french statistic” than a reference to a rugby league website. Both sites could be telling the truth or both could be spinning. Unless you’ve been travelling France lately doing a head count, this is coming across as juvenile pedantry. And, if you have been travelling France doing a head count, I want names and signatures cross-checked against the latest census rolls!
PJ said | November 12th 2009 @ 3:19am | Report comment
King is a dunce this time. Go to Perpignan, the Aude, the regions there abouts and footy is going great guns. always has been. The issue is that is a semi pro sport at best and they are always going to get done against the big 3 pro teams. The news is bright and things are looking up. numbers on the rise, increasing media profile on the back of les cats, and now talk of toulouse and perhaps paris bidding for super league.
It was always bound to happen. The medieval attitudes of european rugger that still pervades england and france are slowly giving way, especially with the advent of professionalism and personal freedoms. Footy can only grow in new markets, perhaps not on a grand scale but the number of new countries trying the sport is impressive.
jus de couchon said | November 12th 2009 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Part of the enjoyment of posting on these R.L forums is an unhealthy , almost masochistic expectation of the reactions one can provoke . My posts are sincere in that I accuse R.L of being run by Idiots , but also I m frustrated by the thought that a once great game is run by an organisation that is incompetent and who squanders scant resources.