Sorry it took me so long to get back to you.
“I’m not sure if anyone on this thread has said straight out: it’s going to work.”
(Well you just did!)

But do you really think so?

I can’t think of any sports franchise anywhere else in the world which has been a success because the sport decided to put it there for good business sense. Every franchise I can think of, has been a success because it has built on a groundswell of local support.

Do you know any sports franchise anywhere that has become a success from the top down rather then bottom up?

But still Pip, my question to you as an AFL fan, is why you want to weaken your own team, to support another team playing in an area where people who don’t care?
I would hate the idea of having to weaken my favourite team so that a club could be propped up in a area that doesn’t really care about them.

Do you feel the same, or do you think that it is important for your sport to do this so that it can get bigger?

Intriqued and interested to hear your response, hope you are still rading this

I recall in 1981, getting home from a morning U19s game, and settling down to watch a live game of VFL from Sydney – one of the very first, before they sent the Swans up there permanently – live footy in those days was a rare treat.

Can’t remember who was playing, but what I distinctly recall was that there was a decent turn out (about 20,000) and they were making a lot of noise.

In 1982, the Swans started playing home games in Sydney (the permanent move and name change came later), and I can recall they got 20,000 when they played Collingwood (but most of the other games were between 9,000 and 15,000).

The numbers jumped up to 30,000 occasionally during the colourful Edelsteen years of 1986-87.

Dropped again, and started climbing again in 1995.

It’s been up and down – but my point is that there was a decent base from the word go – that base has perhaps doubled over the 27 years (but still subject to fluctuation, and drops).

In that same period – attendances for NRL games have also just about doubled.

I know a few people who switched to the Swans at that time but that is a very small sample size so could mean nothing.

A case of fans list from rugby league rather than fans stolen though. if not for the swans they may have become super rugby fans.

Dogs
Steve Kaless wrote a while back himself – there are stacks of people around Australia right now who follow nothing – including in Western Sydney.

Do you reckon the Swans have pinched many League supporters over the last 27 years? I’d say bugger all!!

Sure – you read the odd story (been following the PIssants all my life, but chucked it in, blah, blah, blah) – but let’s be honest – you read the stories going every which way – if were to get hung up every time we saw a story like that – we’d gone mental by now!

As for sponsors – there’s a number of factors at play:
1. How big is the economic pie? We know it’s been growing steadily for 18 years, with some blips here and there.

2. How much of the economic pie is swinging over to Sport and Recreation? The actual share has been growing steadily over that same period.

3. Whenever a big multinational comes in a sinks its hard earned into an AFL club – is that necessarily a dollar that another code is missing out on – or a completely new dollar in the market?

Has the the Storm and the Victory affected the AFL clubs in Melbourne – for the moment – it doesn’t look like it – both have shared 4 titles in the space of three years.

There are only so many sponsorship dollars to go around. Someone has to hurt, and AFL has some mighty deep pockets.

And no differently to Soccer, AFL need to get League supporters on board. They will be the ones who will support the sport. So it may effect League at the ground as well.

if it was me, I wouldn’t tell you – - just to keep you in suspenders,

if it wasn’t me, I wouldn’t tell you – - ‘cos you enjoyed it so much it’d kinda ruin it.

I did think that a lot of the DT comments read like irate fans from the pub using their I phone (I assume that I phones can use the net), you hardley see an Oikee style post for instance. I addmittedly just skimmed them but this one stuck out as very Roar like.

On the very odd occasion that I go to another paper’s blogs (and I do it less these days) – I always use my name.

The only question I have now on page 8 is “footyfan” Pip or MC
Very similar writing style

AFL people have mainly said stuff all,….more a ‘never say never’ approach.
This sounds like Pip

K.Hunt as an example was a pretty specific and odd set of circumstances, and he was leaving NRL anyway…..so, hardly ‘poached’ from RL…..from RU perhaps?? And reality is that Hunt had done enough in a short window of playing Aust Footy at school to be on the radar – - he’s not nearly as speculative as a true ‘conversion’ might be.
Sounds like Pip but with MC’s favorite saying (poached from RU) about Hunt thrown in.

All the talk about the AFL targeting Haynes…and yet his manager admits hearing $1.5 mill on the radio was the first he’s heard about it because he’s had no approaches whatsoever.

Someone is beating up a story!!!!.
Sounds like Pip, but with impresive use of formating (an MC trademark)

btw -AFL played by predominantly well to do people??? where? Remember, in the non Rugby states, we didn’t have the class divide of RU vs RL. AFL states are one in, all in. That’s something Sydney folk have sadly, sadly missed out on during their 100 years of RU vs RL antagonism with soccer on the ethnic fringes. .
Sounds like Pip until the end bit where he chucks in the Futball jibe, keeping the MC possibility alive.

Whoever it was I enjoyed It.

sometimes I lament at the Melb Herald Sun…and then I look at the DT and I realise that I am dealing very much with the lesser of two evils.

I guess……having previously just pondered the potential for a ‘world team’ in the age national championships…..and to see that now happening. Suddenly, one feels a little more able to ponder.

As an annual event, SoO probably has no place…..and I’m still surprised that NSW and QLD sustain an annual 3 match series that severely interrupts about 6 weeks of H&A NRL matches!!!!!

‘But Buckley is correct that the World Cup Bid will generate revenue of around $8 bill (a decent industry for the local area in its own right), will add to the sporting cultural mix, will provide opportunites for kids to become professional sportsmen – and all this can happen without one single dollar being taken away from the AFL teams in the area.’

That would be the key is building a rivalry between two non Vic teams…NSW vs QLD seems the most likely.

If the AFL goes to 24 rounds though it will be very hard to wind that back once you have given the clubs a taste of that extra revenue.

if thats including 50-100 players from each of QLD and NSW, then, there’s interest at least in having a QLD v NSW SoO (just a once off – - you could even – - – call me crazy – - – but, you could even have a SoO festival at Homebush and have the NRL SoO on Wednesday and the AFL SoO on Friday or something like that……why not the two most localised codes actually start working together a little bit??? Party time in old Sydney town!!!!

I doubt a 2nd Melb team is on the horizon with Perth and Adelaide still to have a team.

Dark and light blue combo is better.

That’s what I think could be a real winner for GWS, if they are basically a NSW rep team then all of a sudden it wouldn’t be so kosher to bag them out.

Take the 20/20 champions league. I saw little bit’s of it but wasn’t really that interested. Then it eventuated that there would be a NSW vs Vic semi final. While I didn’t actually watch the game (I have never watched a full 20/20 match) but I certainly cared about the result.

As I did when he had the nerve to charge Doust for not moving a home semi final of “crimes against rugby league” – now that is very rich coming from News Ltd!

What a pelican.

Vic, SA, WA and QLD in pool A
NSW-ACT, Tas, NT and a ‘world’ team in pool B.

The national age championships will be 10-15 years in following this model, and the influx of over 30 internationally developed players and growing leagues overseas will open such new possibilities that had for ever previously been not even considered.

The AFL senior comp will have included Tassie 19 and potential WA20, or QLD(NT) 20 or QLD(Oceania) 20,

heck, perhaps QLD(NT) 21 and QLD (Oceania) 22????

Ya just never know!!!!!

or it all may just blow up in our faces.

The GC17 is as much ‘consolidation’ as it is ‘expansion’. If the AFL didn’t do it, then a heck of a lot of work and growth around that region would effectively be washed down the drain.

GWS18…..well,…the pendulum is more for ‘expansion’ over ‘consolidation’, but, if GWS18 were put on the back burner for even just 5 years, then that ‘expansion vs consolidation’ equation would be much closer…..and now is the right time to move.

And – what then will be deemed a minimum ROI to determine success? Nothing to do with ‘crushing Rugby League’ as Dean Ritchie in the DT would suggest…

avg 25K a week in Sydney to AFL matches over 22 rounds??? i.e. 30K Swans, 20K GWS….~550,000 annually.
10 NSW derived draftees each year??
each year, 2 * 50-60K ‘block buster’ local derbies??

the econometric measures??

Mind you, with Melbourne’s population predicted to overtake that of Sydney’s in 40 or so years, this is precisely the way the NRL should be thinking.

….but, from the city that idolises A.Jones, J.Laws and thankfully took S.Price off our hands……I guess we couldn’t expect less.

a nice example of his ‘work’:
…I said it earlier. The AFL want to destroy rugby league. I don’t believe them for a second that this isn’t a war. They are telling fibs.

Dean Ritchie
Tue 10 Nov 09 (12:41pm)

I’m still yet to be convinced by Mr.Ritchie just how GWS18 is going to actually ‘destroy rugby league’?!?!??! (or in what time frame??).

but I like the fellow who speculates thus:

“Playing Devil’s Advocate for a second: I wish that we heard those words before Super League and News Ltd took the Balmain, Magpies, Souths, Manly, Noths and Illawarra supporters for a ride 10 years ago.

I can’t help but think that News Ltd is not so caring for the punter, but more for its own investment in the NRL and that News is more worried than the general league community. ”

North Sydney Bear of Berowra (Reply)
Tue 10 Nov 09 (11:52am)

to which Ritchie replies:

I have tried to be nice to you now for a fortnight Bear. But that’s it. I have barred you!

Dean Ritchie
Tue 10 Nov 09 (01:05pm

struck a nerve perhaps????

2. Good point

3. Also a good point.

You see where I’m going…

so “What moves would you suggest the NRL *not* make?”

If it’s Swans mark 2 then 15 years from now I think the AFL product might be lacking an edge when compared to the other codes. By then the NRL will probably be in Perth, the Super 15 will have been in Melbourne 10 years the HAL won’t be a bunch of startup franchises…. but the AFL will look rather the same with 2 niche teams in NSW.

Having the NSW rivalry would really put some mnore events on the national radar.