Ditto what Shahsan said.

A man with his mind closed to the past remains in the dark.

Ditto what Shahsan said. A man with a closed mind on the past remains in the dark.

It might surprise you to know rugby was played long before 2000……….

It would have taken a mighty effort from the Wallas, ABs or French of the day to topple them.

But, it could have been done, all the same.

Remember, the basis of the Boks team in 83 put 50 points on the South American Jaguars (actually Argentina Pumas) in 82, only to lose the return match.

Re your earlier request – Jimmy has given excellent overview but oddly does not talk about the two great centres of that Bok era. The incomparable Gerber and the unfortunate Willie du Plessis who could have gone on to greatness. Had coffee with Willie the other day(he now lives in Sydney) – terrifically modest as always.Brendan Venter was no slouch but never really gave his all to the game as he was more dedicated to gaining his medical degrees. He also had quite a temper and was famously red carded in one international for kicking some poor opponent.

A combination of Gerber and O’Driscoll would be a match made in heaven.With Ella at Flyhalf and Joost as scrummie.O’Reilly and Mordt as the wings and JPR lurking at Fullback.

Ah the fantasies of old men!

Both your comments & Jimmy’s very illuminating. So Ella to set Du Plessis, Gerber, Mordt & du Plessis alight?

You guys had your own ‘dark’ genius, his name was Errol Tobias.

It’s a good thing Saffies don’t write rugby history. We would otherwise hear nothing but the Boks this, Boks that…..

You forget that the Boks would unlikely have competed in a RWC in 1983, unless they hosted it. And as good as they were, what they experienced in NZ in 1981, in terms of public disturbance, would haven nothing compared to what would happen in the UK, France & Ireland, with a greater concentration of people, especially West Indians, West Africans & Asian migrants.

Finally, great backline that the Boks could have had in 1983, Botha was more a roadblock than a feeder. And extra finally, we all know sport isn’t played on paper, but out on the field, where emotions & pressure can do funny things to a man, any man.

Oh, & when you get to the quarters of a RWC, it becomes a knock-out. The opposition only needs to put one good game on you, & you’re gone. Just ask the ABs!

I guess Kiwis can tell me whether at 30 going on 31, Mourie would have kept Hobbs, aged 23, out of the side in 1983.

Fantastic stuff. You helped clarify quite a few things. Interesting what you say about Tobias. It’s a shame about the time he lived in.

Fullback: Heunis was a complete player. He actually played every back line position except scrum half as I recall? Very fast, excellent kicker with both feet and secure under the high ball. Superb positional player with greta defence. In contrast, Joubert (‘Rolls Royce’) was often shaky under the high ball and missed quite a lot of tackles. Pienaar was a marvellous all round player but not quite to the standard of Heunis. All of them were attacking fullbacks but Heunis was more cautious than the other two. Only the legendary H.O. de Villiers would beat Heunis to the No 1 spot.

Wings: No problems here – Mordt and Carel du Plessis. I respected Small for his memorable shutting out of Lomu(with help!) in the 95 WC final. Germishuys was very under rated. Williams a fine player and great bloke.

Flyhalf: Tobias first played for SDA after he was past his best = aged 31. He never knew defeat in a Bok jersey. I rate him not only the best Bok flyhalf ever but one of the game’s best ever. He had every skill in the book and was very quick off the mark with terrific instinctive positional play. Honibal was a frighteneing character – tough as old boots. I was in Paris and watched that incredible test when SA ran in 7 tries against France. Honibal was just sublime that day. Botha just kicked too much and wasted one of the finest back lines ever to grace a rugby field. Joel was a ‘pressure’ player. Cool, calm and collected. But nowhere in the class of Tobias or Honiball.

Scrumhalf: In a country blessed by a history of great scrum halves you would have to pick Joost. Big, powerful and a wonderl passer on both sides. Plus he played in very average Bok sides and managed to lift them to higher standards. Serfontein was no slouch but in those days the halves had more time and he played behind tremendous forwards who provided betetr protection. He was a much better kicker than Joost. Joost loved to attack at every opportunity and was an excellent defender.

No 8. Skinstad and Breedt don’t belong in the company of the other two.Maybe unfair on Breedt whom I only saw play once – he came to fore late in the 80′s and was a fine Bok Captain. Morne was a class above the others. The Boks collapsed after Teichmann was dropped and took some time to recover. Remember they had just completed 17 unbeaten tests in a row!

Forwards: Not my cup of tea! Impressions were they were OK but not world beaters except for two stand outs – du Randt and Andrews.

Maybe Ziggy can comment although he played Fly Half and was only kept out of the Boks by the famous Keith Oxlee.

Finally to those who keep on about the modern professionals being streets ahead of the past players I find JPRs comments illuminating – he would pick only two possibles from todays era that could compete in the teams from his past! And he was as tough as hell and probably the best full back I ever saw play the game.

I literally cried on friday night watching that game. Even thought of commiting suicide afterwards. But then i realize! the real boks, THATS RIGHT the real boks are only starting this friday againts France. So i returned my gun back to the safe and now i could go on with my daily life bussines. Hopefully the other boks (the LOSERS!) can go home now and start trainning for the super14 or whatever.

Oh well, Earl Rose, Houggard and John Deysel could stay in europe with the boks for a while thou. Anyway GO 1983 BOKS!

What an awesome site. I think I’ll be spending some time there!

Of course, each of the teams above have been boosted with “ideal world” inclusions, especially Australia. The ‘real’ Wallabies of 1983 for example, didn’t have O’Connor or D’Arcy, who went to league that year, or Loane, who had retired.

Postion – Nation (points)
1 – NZ (87)
2 – SA (85)
3 – Eng (83)
4 – Aus (82)
5 – Wal (81)
6 – Fra (80)
7 – Sco (78)
8 – Arg (77)
9 – Ire (77)

Sep ’83
1 – NZ (87)
2 – Fra (81)
3 – Aus (81)
4 – Ire (81)
5 – Wal (80)
6 – Sco (79)
7 – Eng (79)
8 – Arg (78)

So if this proves anything – its that the Kiwis were still way out front but the rest of the pack were extremely close with France and Ireland on the up.

What intrigues about 1983, is how open it was likely to be. I think your rankings are probably right – 1.NZ, 2.Fra, 3.Aus – but very little between them.

In the 5N 1982-84, Scotland compiled 15 points, followed by France 14, Ireland 12, Wales 11 & England 8. The breakdown is as follows:

E – 5, 1, 2.
F – 2, 6, 6.
I – 6, 6, 0.
S – 5, 2, 8.
W – 2, 5, 4.

I think it would have been an intriguing tournament, had it happened. I guess my overriding point, or thought for the article, is that back in 1983 the gap between nations ranked 1 to 8 was far narrower than it is today .

Another thing I realised, 5 of the number 10s mentioned above, were widely regarded as the best to ever represent their country – Mark Ella (Australia), Naas Botha (South Africa), Ollie Campbell (Ireland), John Rutherford (Scotland) & Hugo Porta (Argentina).

Indeed, Porta’s name is sometimes put forward as the best ever number 10 from any country. Massive praise indeed. The remaining number 10s weren’t slouches either.

NZ’s Wayne Smith was very workmanlike; Wales’ Gareth Davies will always suffer comparison with his immediate predecessors Phil Bennett & Barry John (& Jon Davies after him), but was a fine player in his own right.

England’s Les Cusworth, unusually for a Pom, liked the running game while France’s Lescaboura was unusually tall for the position, but deceptively quick with his hands & on his feet.