By Adrian Musolino
November 11th 2009 @ 3:39am
Australia should back All Whites for World Cup
South Africa's Katlego Mashego, left, vies for the ball with New Zealand's Andy Boyens during their Confederations Cup Group A soccer match at the Royal Bafokeng Stadium in Rustenburg, South Africa, Wednesday, June 17, 2009. South Africa won 2-0. AP Photo/Rebecca Blackwell
D-day looms for New Zealand’s All Whites. They are one game away from World Cup qualification for the first time since 1982, and they face a do or die clash in Wellington on Saturday in a similar scenario to what the Socceroos faced in November 2005.
And like the Socceroos’ playoff qualification, victory for the All Whites could have a lasting impact for football in the country, and across the Tasman.
But the political quagmire New Zealand football finds itself in, namely through the Wellington Phoenix – the biggest contributor of players and officials to the All Whites – threatens to overshadow the occasion.
AFC President Mohamed Bin Hammam has stated that it is unacceptable that a team – Wellington Phoenix – from a country outside of the Asian confederation is allowed to play, and prosper, in an Asian domestic league, especially when that nation could potentially knock out an Asian country in a World Cup playoff thanks, in no small part, to the experience of playing in that league.
It is certainly an odd situation, and an absurd system, one that FIFA and the AFC, with their differing positions on Wellington’s place in the region, have failed to act on with any great conviction.
Neither have they shown much concern for the plight of the Phoenix, New Zealand and the greater Oceania region.
Wellington Phoenix is in no-man’s land.
Unable to qualify for either the Asian Champions League or OFC continental club competition, their future in the A-League remains in limbo.
Even its attempts to develop a youth team in either Australia or New Zealand have been scuppered by their licence uncertainty.
The sad irony is victory against Bahrain on the weekend would further infuriate the powers that be at the AFC, and it could condemn the Phoenix in their plight to remain in the A-League.
It’s a grossly unfair situation.
Australia is sort of the meat in the sandwich in this situation, and although the FFA has backed Wellington’s future in the A-League, it needs to be careful not to get off side with the AFC.
So, whom do we back – our Asian counterparts or our Kiwi neighbours?
Some, such as Scott McIntyre writing on the SBS World Game site, suggest we should be backing our Asian brethren over our Tasman neighbours.
McIntyre argues Australians should be backing Bahrain as a way of showing our support and gratitude to the Asian confederation, especially in light of what he claims is a “genuine ambiguity towards Asian football.”
He states: “A good way to begin changing that perception would be for Australia to throw its full support behind the bid of one of smallest Asian nations as it attempts to create history.”
He is also correct in saying Bahrain qualifying would be even more a fairytale story considering it is more of a minnow than New Zealand.
These are salient points. But I can’t help but feel there is more to be gained for Australia in seeing the All Whites qualify.
The A-League, as the nearest and most accessible professional competition to New Zealand, will be the biggest benefactor of a rise in interest in the game, leading to more Kiwis playing the game – even if the Wellington Phoenix is booted out of the competition.
New Zealand will always be our closest and most associated football ally, and there is more to be gained for the Australian game if the All Whites qualify rather than Bahrain, political machinations aside. Having both Australia and New Zealand in South Africa will be an enormous achievement for football in our part of the world, and a huge fillip for the A-League, without whom the All Whites – through the Phoenix – may not be in this situation.
Although well embedded in Asia, Australia should never forget its former home.
Forget the notion of our need to support our Asian counterparts over the Oceania ‘outsiders’.
As I wrote in a previous column on the eve of the Confederations Cup: “Although it goes against our countries sporting ethos, we should all be cheering for the All Whites.”
Good luck to the All Whites. Let’s hope we see them in South Africa.
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(67)
Freud of Football said | November 11th 2009 @ 4:46am | Report comment
Adrian, others have accused you of hyperbolic journalism in the past but I won’t take it that far. Nevertheless, FIFA head honcho Joseph Blatter has already put his support behind the plight of the Phoenix: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/soccer/news/article.cfm?c_id=86&objectid=10550437 – So this is a totally moot point, Blatter has more power than the leaders of many countries, he has more friends in high places than you or I could ever imagine, if Blatter has said that then he will likely stick to it because he has some other motive for it (don’t ask me what), not because he gives a damn about NZ football but because he cares about being President of FIFA.
I think as a nation we should support the All Whites, imagine the Socceroos vs The All Whites in a football WC, that would be something to savour. However politically, Australia should stick with the AFC, we aren’t that high and mighty that we can afford to go putting noses out of joint and getting into the AFC was hard enough as it was, no need to rock the boat now and risk losing all that especially as we know we can qualify for the WC with relative ease in Asia.
megatron said | November 11th 2009 @ 6:48am | Report comment
Is there a chance we could draw them in the WC groups or will seeding keep us apart?
Brendan said | November 11th 2009 @ 7:20am | Report comment
There is NO chance we will draw NZ in the WC, whoever wins this match will go into the same pot as us.
Freud of Football said | November 11th 2009 @ 7:30am | Report comment
There is always a chance in the knockout stages.
megatron said | November 11th 2009 @ 9:54am | Report comment
That won’t happen.
megatron said | November 11th 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Go Kiwis!
dasilva said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:21am | Report comment
According to te footballranking.info website
There’s a chance we will get New Zealand if Costa Rica beats uruguay.
If costa rica beats Uruguay
4 AFC
1 Oceania
5 Africans
2 non-seeded south america
4 North americans
AFC, and CONCACAF will be in one pot
OFC,CAF, and CONMNBOL will be in the other pot
If Uruguay beats Costa Rica
4 AFC
1 Oceania
5 Africans
3 non-seeded south america
3 North americans
AFC, OFC and either CONMEBOL/CONCACAF will be in one pot
CAF and CONMENBOL/CONCACAF will be in the other pot.
Therefore it is possible for Australia to be in the same group as NEw zealand only if Costa rica beats uruguay.
megatron said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:27am | Report comment
Awesome. Thanks for that. Let’s go for Costa Rica too. Australia V New Zealand at a World Cup would be awesome. Imagine a group of England, Australia, NZ and another. Gold. It was great at the last WC that multicultural Aussies – Italians, Croatians etc – got to see Australia play them so imagine if we got grouped with Commonwealth countries!
PS: We are cheering against Uruguay again. They must hate us so much!
danny said | November 11th 2009 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
hmmm. wonder what would happen if bahrain beat the kiwis and costa rica beat uruguay?
5 AFC
5 CAF
2 CONMEBOL
4 CONCACAF
interesting scenario.
GazGoldCoast said | November 11th 2009 @ 5:40am | Report comment
Great article Adrian, and a lot of good points. There’s a reflexive anti-NZ culture in Australian sports, only exceeded by our anti-UK sentiments, but both rivalries stoke the fires of our own sporting passions. Anyone aware of Australia’s own trials and tribulations qualifying through Oceania should have a lot of sympathy for football fans across the Tasman. Fortunately the FFA do not need to make an official decision on which team they support, but personally I will be rooting for the Kiwis – - and of course Shane Smeltz — all the way.
And of course, if a WC appearance triggers a flood of interest in NZ football, we Aussies will be waiting to welcome all those gifted Kiwi kids over the next 10 years, give them a shirt in the A-League, and if they are good enough for the national squad, we’ll insist they are really Aussies!
Mr cheese said | November 11th 2009 @ 5:52am | Report comment
Don’t know who he is, but it’s great to hear of a chap called Shane Smeltz. He sounds a bit like somebody who might have worked alongside George Gershwin et al in Tin Pan Alley between the wars.
As for these “anti-UK” sentiments, I am surprised to hear that. I thought that you were all pretty much fans of the English. When Australia get knocked out next summer, you will all support us in South Africa, no ?!?!?!?!?!??!
danny said | November 11th 2009 @ 8:34am | Report comment
bah! as if we’d ever claim the successful kiwis as our own…
Rob said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:38am | Report comment
Yeah, Danny, you’re right, and Phar Lap was an Aussie Horse, and Russell Crowe is an Aussie as well… :p
danny said | November 11th 2009 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
shihad and crowded house are two great aussie bands…
Gibbo said | November 11th 2009 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
Flight of the conchords is my favourite aussie show.
danny said | November 11th 2009 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoF_fa9TMDk
danny said | November 12th 2009 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
we can claim them all!
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/contributors/join-oz-new-zealand–its-for-the-best-20091112-ib8r.html
Robbos said | November 11th 2009 @ 6:08am | Report comment
Go the All Whites even though it’s against our country’s sporting cultures & against our region’s own teams.
Why doesn’t FIFA just add Ocenia to Asia.
danny said | November 11th 2009 @ 8:36am | Report comment
it would certainly make a lot of sense to do that. just create another AFC region in oceania, and early-round qualifiers are played on a regional basis to reduce travel costs etc.
AGO74 said | November 11th 2009 @ 6:33am | Report comment
Go New Zealand. Good for the A-League. Good for our old friends (and more than ocasional foes!) in NZ – and at the end of the day the pragmatist in me says is better for the AFC to not have Bahrain in the World Cup because realistically whoever wins here is going to be the most likely cannon fodder candidate of the 32 nations and if it is Bahrain has the potential to embarass the AFC. We got seriously outplayed by Bahrain over there last year but everyone also knows when you take the Gulf teams out of the Gulf they seem to disintegrate (Saudi Arabia at any of last 3 world cups with no wins, many losses and quite a few thrashings as well). Having said that, if Bahrain do win on saturday I will cheer on Bahrain as well as the other AFC qualifiers in Sth Africa because the better all AFC teams do (and not just ours) the better for AFC in the long run.
Brendan said | November 11th 2009 @ 7:22am | Report comment
I will be supporting Bahrain, as Australia is a Asian Confed member I want to see as many AFC teams win through as possible.
Dave said | November 11th 2009 @ 7:57am | Report comment
Is there anyway in Sydney apart from Setanta Sports the match wil be shown on TV?
megatron said | November 11th 2009 @ 8:37am | Report comment
Likewise for Adelaide?
danny said | November 11th 2009 @ 8:38am | Report comment
the internet is your friend
megatron said | November 11th 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment
It’s not the same though. Would be surprised if ex pat Kiwis haven’t arranged for some get together in the capitals. This is their Uruguay decider. Funny if it’s decided on penalties
AGO74 said | November 11th 2009 @ 9:17am | Report comment
if you are super super keen and have fox you can pay $15 to have setanta hooked on for a month (this is what I did for Euro 2008). Just don’t forget to ring up and cancel the subscription at the end of the month you have paid for!
cbowden9000 said | November 11th 2009 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Is it wrong of me to suggest iraqgoals?
megatron said | November 11th 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment
What’s that?
megatron said | November 11th 2009 @ 10:02am | Report comment
It’s ok I found it. Better not say.
cbowden9000 said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Yeah, i’m not sure about the football community’s standing on these websites. For me, there is no other way I can watch away CCM or Socceroos games…
megatron said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Yeah they’re much against them as it potentially devalues TV rights and obviously decreases ratings and potential buyers to subsription tv.
cbowden9000 said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:27am | Report comment
I see. Well, I am a paying CCM member and I go to Socceroos games in Australia, but I am only 17 so I can’t go to a pub etc to watch their foxtel. There is no way my parents are going to pay for foxtel, so websites like these are the only way I can watch away games. I suppose that they could stop people from paying for foxtel if they can watch the games for free online, but for those with no other option like me, it would be better to keep their interest in football than not watch the games at all, wouldn’t it?
danny said | November 11th 2009 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
you can watch a lot of games not involving australian teams completely legally on bet365. i’m pretty sure the kiwis game will be on there. in terms of a-league games, if you *want*, you can pay a subscription to the afc website and watch a-league games online through that. it’s cheaper than pay tv i’m pretty sure, but still has the dual problems of costing money and being online (so the worst of both worlds, really).
AndyRoo said | November 11th 2009 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Danny I don’t think the AFC service works for those in Australia. I tried to see a demo of a CSL game and it’s blocked to Australian IP addresses.
If you have moved on from a standard TV then it only takes one cable (and a second for sound) to stream from your computer to TV.
AndyRoo said | November 11th 2009 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
cbowden9000
I don’t begrudge people like yourself who otherwise wouldn’t see it from watching the game.
It’s more the public discussion that is frowned on and hopefully they are on FTA soon so people like yourself and other youngsters don’t miss out and it’s all a moot point.
Midfielder said | November 11th 2009 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Go the AW’s…However prehaps they need like us to just miss out so the hunger grows… the media over there is almost totally RU … sometimes these things take time to develop…
Brian said | November 11th 2009 @ 8:29am | Report comment
On a practical note are any channels showing this game? if possible I’d like to see it.
With regards to the tie whoever wins will be thrashed repeatedly at the WC. As such probably better its NZ so their players gain experience, also increased interest in NZ football, the Phoenix, the A League will only be good for Australia. Maybe one day even a side in Auckland could be resurrected
Darwin hammer said | November 11th 2009 @ 8:57am | Report comment
Well I’m heading over tomorrow to cheer the boys on …. will be fantastic if we can make it for only the second time …
albatross said | November 11th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
I would tend to support NZ given that members of the team are not required to declare that they have an invisible friend.
The AFC should be split into two separate confeds with the ME countries in an “West Asia confed. Ideally FIFA could, for added piquancy, insist the zone include Israel meaning that we would not be seeing national sides made up of “imports” playing in the world cup as most of the members of the proposed confed could not compete. Any east Asian country that felt their “lifestyle” would be more suited to the west Asian confed could join it.
The east Asian countries and Oceania should be put in a “eastern” Asia-Pac confed.. This would give FIFA the opportunity also to ditch CONCACAF which is a joke specifically organised to ensure the USA qualifies for every WC. This might mean that the Asia Pac might have to be jigged so that both China and the USA qualify but given the size of the confed there would be enough places to satisfy this FIFA peccadillo without inconveniencing everyone else.
The mini countries of Oceania could be handled in the same way as the mini countries of the AFC currently are with nice little competitions configured especially for them.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Can’t say I agree. I’d prefer to see Oceania as a sub-set of Asia with the top two Oceania nations entering the AFC qualification stage in round 3.
Rhino said | November 11th 2009 @ 8:51pm | Report comment
Where is Vanuatu (who usually come second) or any other small pacific nation going to find the cash to jet there players around asia.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | November 12th 2009 @ 11:04am | Report comment
On balance Solomons is probably second best in the region and they are the poorest nation in the Pacific per capita. Such costs are covered by FIFA in these circumstances.
megatron said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:11am | Report comment
This makes complete sense and everyone tends to agree. AFC seem to be the biggest hurdles, but surely it would increase their power. So I don’t get why they’re against it. Oceania are like the kid who is bullied and forgotten about at school.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:11am | Report comment
Whilst many of us harbour a soft spot for the All Whites I believe that Bahrain will acquit itself better at the World Cup. I think they will have the class to get through on Saturday though it should be a good match to watch.
Zack said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:23am | Report comment
As we are in the Asian Confederation we should support Bharain. But good luck to both of them.
AndyRoo said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:30am | Report comment
I can’t help it I will be supporting the All Whites because Bahrain are a bunch of strangers to me. We have only been in the AFC for 4 years and allready I feel their is a divide between East and West.
We don’t play against them in the ACL and none of their players play in the A league so it’s hard to feel any emotion for them…although the u tube clip of them beating Saudi Arabia was fantastic.
Good luck Smeltz, Nelson, Bertos and the boys.
The Bishop said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:55am | Report comment
Bugger New Zealand – I’ll be firmly neutral. Would prefer a more exotic WC matchup as well. Played NZ too many times already on the Socceroos history.
Gibbo said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:56am | Report comment
i’m kinda changing my tune toward supporting Barhain… i mean, us aussies already took one of the asian spots for auto qualification (which, as last team standing, Barhain could have some right to lament that it would have been theirs), and now through the Nix in the A-League we’ve been training their opponents for the knockout game!!
poor little buggers.
that said, i wouldnt begrudge the kiwi’s a trip to Sth Africa.
dasilva said | November 11th 2009 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Although I’m supporting Bahrain
However, the chances are that if Australia didn’t join Asia, the Asian side would most likely be stripped of a world cup place due to poor performance in the last world cup.
Asia benefits from our presence as well so we shouldn’t really be worried about us taking other sides places in the world cup
megatron said | November 11th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
I’m amazed so many here are going for Bahrain considering the All Whites are essentially an A-League national team and we have little association with Bahrain. Guess it shows how connected Aussies are becoming with Asia
AndyRoo said | November 11th 2009 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
After reading this
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1863/world-cup-2010/2009/11/11/1617537/world-cup-fan-vs-fan-new-zealand-bahrain
I am on the NZ bandwagon now
danny said | November 11th 2009 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
geez, it’s a bit hard to go for bahrain after reading that fan’s responses. humility, anyone?
personally favourite:
‘I doubt that there are any dangerous players in the New Zealand team.’
AndyRoo said | November 11th 2009 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
It’s probably a case in that the NZ fan is a lot more respectful than your average NZ fan which really showed him up.
It was a good advertisement for NZ amongst the neutrals.
Rob said | November 11th 2009 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
Yeah, old mate from Bahrain was arrogant as! Let’s hope he’s eating his words, just like the Uruguayans were in 2005 against us. I remember bitter exchanges on the Hattrick Forums (no, I don’t play anymore) in the lead-up, and some really bad, arrogant stuff from the South Americans in particular.
That being said, I’m sure they’re not all like that, as I found with the Uruguayans, but this Bahraini guy didn’t do himself or his country any favours whatsoever, if he was looking to attract neutral support.
dasilva said | November 11th 2009 @ 7:26pm | Report comment
Remember that article by drew777 http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/08/19/nz-the-goods-for-footballs-biggest-stage.
This shows that NZ fans (although I think Drew777 is actually an Australian) can be just as guilty as talking down the opposition with no real justification (the bahrain side has nothing too impressive, Pit these three sides head to head, and you will see that every Kiwi is equal to, or better, than any Saudi or Bahrain player.). The way drew just declared that NZ is a stronger team then both Bahrain and Saudi Arabia without giving a reason why and then declared that NZ has some world class players was laughable.
So I think both sides have some divine rights issue going on here.
However saying that, Andre Zlotkowski was very impressive and quite humble for a fan judging from that interview.
Dan said | November 11th 2009 @ 5:34pm | Report comment
NZ soccer? Do you think anyone in NZ would care? I don’t…
jake said | November 11th 2009 @ 8:38pm | Report comment
A sold out stadium says people care buddy!!! GO THE MIGHTY ALL WHITES!!!!!!
Dan said | November 12th 2009 @ 4:43pm | Report comment
A sold out stadium for what though?? Most Kiwis I know tell me that soccer is only for meek middle class white boys who can’t mix it in Rugby…
AndyRoo said | November 12th 2009 @ 4:55pm | Report comment
Since we are dishing out very basic and flawed stereotypes
Substitute the word Rugby for League and you just described the very successful niche Australian Rugby (two time World Champs) has carved up for itself.
Dan said | November 12th 2009 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
The problem is that NZ already has a population smaller that Sydney and a very full Rugby calender with a bit of league thrown in for good measure. I’ve just never met a kiwi who’s really cared even remotely about soccer… it’s all very good to talk about niche markets, but in a country of 4 million people who are heavily into rugby that niche is going to be very small – think French Rugby League small. It just gets to a point where you start to wonder if it’s worth bothering… I mean is soccer struggling for international attention? Hardly. Why care about a country like NZ where the vast majority of its small population don’t care about you? It’s actually OK for some country’s not to be totally in love with soccer.
AndyRoo said | November 12th 2009 @ 5:50pm | Report comment
There not talking about creating a full time profesional league. They have potential for perhaps another team in the A league down the track and that’s about it.
It’s equal participation wise with rugby at the moment and the world cup is only once every 4 yearsm people can care and take an interest in it without it being there one and only code. They have Ryan Nelson doing well at Blackburn so even if it’s their 3rd favorite footy code considering how similar the Rugby codes are (and league is only another 2 pro teams max) that is a decent niche. Not a world cup winning niche but a decent shake at qualifing niche which would put NZ (or bahrain) on the map a bit.
Cricket has survived in NZ for yonks on scraps.
All blacks will always be number one, if you go to NZ All blacks merchandise is everywhere, it’s NZ’s version of soft toy Koalas. A fair chunk of my family are kiwis and most of the played football and watched the FA cup…but admittedly as their second code.
Dan said | November 12th 2009 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
Soccer always has great participation levels everywhere because it’s a good social activity to keep fit and you’re not likely to get hurt like you are playing a contact football code like Rugby. But high participation does not equal marketability, just look at netball in Australia.
But I see what you’re saying
silver said | November 12th 2009 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
Hey Jake why doesn’t the domestic competition get any people to attend their games.
A one off event of any sport gets most Kiwis’ support but can NZ Soccer build on this if the All Whites qualify for the World Cup.
AndyRoo said | November 12th 2009 @ 5:54pm | Report comment
Might add a few thousand to phoenix games and people might make an effort to watch them (the Phoenix) on tv if they make the finals.
Won’t lead to NZ hosting the world cup
Kelly said | November 12th 2009 @ 6:27pm | Report comment
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10608618
allblackfan said | November 13th 2009 @ 12:16am | Report comment
I’m rugby mad through and through (with an soccer background) but I’ll be watching the All Whites. This one game (I’d say) is equal in status as the WC to NZ (soccer/sports) fans. I support the All Whites because I’m a Kiwi (GO THE ALL WHITES!!) Stick it to Bahrain (especially if the AFC wants to kick NZ out!!)
thinker said | November 13th 2009 @ 9:56am | Report comment
come on bahrain, having a team called “the All whites” in Sth Africa would not go down well