Comments on: Football at the forefront for Kiwis, for a change

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:28:28 +0000

This site is a fun place to talk sport and disagree and agree on whatever the hell is going on, and to debate strenuously without ever getting too personal, and retaining some sense of humour. But a few have to spoil it for the rest of us. Why is that?

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:24:33 +0000

Jeez.
Asia and Oceania used to be grouped together for purposes of World Cup qualifcation, from the 60s. It used to be known as the Asia/Oceania zone. Which is why the Socceroos played often against the likes of Vietnam, HK etc to try to get to teh World Cup.
Ok, to be more correct, the Oceania winner (in effect Australai or NZ) were blocked from qualifcation via the Asia route from the 80s, once it became clear to the Asian nations that the strength of Aust/NZ meant they were always likely to get the sole spot on offer then.
So the Oceania winner had to go find all sorts of routes to ge through, including Europe in 1986, Concacaf (if i recall corectly) in 1990, South America in 1994, back to Asia in 1998, and then South America again for 2002 and 2006.
I hope i passed your test, sir.

By: Pippinu

Pippinu — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:14:52 +0000

But up till 1982, Australia and New Zealand played off through the AFC, one way or the other.

By: K B

K B — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:06:19 +0000

Shahsan,

“That’s why Australia and NZ were kicked out of Asia in the first place, back in the 80s. The Arab lobby is very strong in the AFC.”

Oh yeah as I thought .. you know nothing about it … Australia and NZ were never ever in the Asian confederation, never, do you understand.. Simpleton…? (Now you are using offensive language allow me to do the same) However, they did have to qualify through Asia in 1974 and 1997…

Batter did give Oceania a half spot from Conmebol (Sth America’s half spot) that was revoked only because Australia in the Confederation’s cup in Germany failed to impress, so Blatter was forced to do a back flip under immense pressure from the Sth American confederation…

You had not mention Sth America’s involement not once…

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:49:58 +0000

Yah, i get you. When there is confusion, use whatever makes things clear.
Yes, i thought 3 strikers away was quite smart: go for jugualr early, sneak away goal etc. But i thought he would have been more careful at home, esp when 1-0 up with 15 minutes to go.
true, they almost scored again but they also didnt hold things up well at all upfront. Comes with experience, I guess.

By: AndyRoo

AndyRoo — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:34:00 +0000

What i couldn’t believe was that he played 3 strikers home and away. Then 1 nil up with about 15 mins to go was it he takes of one of his strikers…. for another striker!
Was a good move though as the fresh legs made a difference.

And the first sub was bringing on a guy from the NZ local league. Hopefully he is not a local league player for much longer

Oh and I don’t really care what other people call the game, most Aussie rules fans seem to accept us calling their game AFL, and league fans accept the game being called NRL even though it sounds stupid. I still sometimes use Soccer as the name depending on the audience.

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:23:35 +0000

Dan, this is unedifying and really beneath us. We should leave him festering in the gutter with his fascist brethren.

By: Pippinu

Pippinu — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:23:15 +0000

Actually, I’m not sure how strict the Roar editors are about it. Occasionally they do edit articles to change the word from soccer to football, but they let it through stacks as well!!

Old habits die hard (and in this case, there’s a compelling case for continuing with the old habit and indeed for reinforcing standard Australian usage, just as the Americans have no problem reinforcing standard American usage).

Take the opening paragraph of this very article, despite the title, it says:

“For the first time in almost three decades, soccer will emerge from the shadow of rugby to command national attention when New Zealand plays for a World Cup spot on Saturday against Bahrain. ”

It has to say that.

To the average NZer and Australian, to say “football will emerge from the shadow of rugby” is completely devoid of meaning – editors want clarity – not ambiguity.

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:15:48 +0000

Obviously your comprehension of English is as poor as your logic.
I sought clairification from AndyRoo to make sure I didnt rip into him for nothing. The way he wrote it (go read it for yourself), it sounded like
a) the AFC esp Arab bloc were the ones who deprived Oceania of automatic qualification, and
b) the way it was written it sounded as if automatic qualifcation for Oceania had already happened.
I knew the facts behind both those points but wanted to hear Andy’s version first. Once satisfied, I then reiterated it with my next statement that it wasnt ever made known if it was the AFC or Arab countries that cost Oceania its spot, which was never ever granted.
Blatter only said Oceania would get it as part as his usual campaigining spiel, something long-time soccer watchers knew was never going to happen.
Can you understand all that?

By: Dan

Dan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:13:48 +0000

No, I should most certainly not be told which officially accepted name I will use for a sport. I will not be ordered on how I use language. I will not ever ask you to call it soccer. Call it football however and whereever you want, and I will call it soccer. They are both legitimate names. I’ve never known the game as football and I resent being told I have to call it such. I understand you wish to reverse a past wrong, but your methods are just as bullish as those you would derride.

By: Pippinu

Pippinu — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:13:03 +0000

Shahsan

for a few months, yes, Oceania officially had a spot – the South Americans then lobbied hard to take the full spot away from Oceania when their idiotic idea for a 36 team WC was knocked on the head.

By: K B

K B — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:10:05 +0000

Well Dan this being a Football thread I’m communicating with football folk … I would have thought I was talking about Football not Rugby League…

btw I grew up with ARL in Sydney and have a love for it… as a one time old Newtown Blue Bag supporter… Now a NRL Rabbitoh supporter… In the NRL house I go with the flow, shouldn’t you do the same…?

By: K B

K B — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:50:27 +0000

Shahsan,
Oh really you just seemed to want to impose your belief that Football has no right to call itself Football in its own house … I mean is it so offensive to you …? Your not a football fan you’ve demonstrated that with your shallow knowledge of Australia’s, Asian membership..

AndrewRoo corrected you on that score that every real football lover knew about and were traumatised by Sepp Blatter’s back flip of the Oceania affair, one WC spot given then taken away … You have some knowledge granted, but your love is else where in another code…

Here you are telling me to behave myself like a child and presuming I’m younger than you… How do you know that..? I’m of the same generation of Les Murray and the late Johnny Warren and met them both when I lived in Sydney…

By: Dan

Dan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:48:42 +0000

Actually no. I have no problem with soccer fans calling their game football at all. It’s the arrogant demand for the hemogenisation of the English language in respect to the use of the word football that I can’t stand. When I use the word football I do not mean association football, I generally mean Rugby League and my community of friends of collegues are much the same. If you and your friends mean soccer, then so be it. But don’t talk down to me and try to explain that “the world calls it football” (a categorically incorrect statement given some 300 million Americans who would beg to differ along with the various differing translations of the word into different languages) so therefore I have to as well. You know what I’m referring to when I use the word soccer, the same cannot be said for your use of the word “football” in the Australian context (barring your group of friends who may all be soccer fans).

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:29:21 +0000

Yes, that was very funny.
And i agree about their producing the odd gem in attack. I hope NZ get better, for their own sake. They were pretty careless with possession tonight, were too impatient and naive. And their tempo was too slow. What they need now is a top-notch coach to whip them into shape, the way Hiddink improved Australia in a few months.

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:20:28 +0000

This is like arguing with a 5-year-old, but I have to make the point.
Listen, along with rugby union, soccer/football is my favourite sport. I know all those stats and videos you’re trying to educate me with. I have missed fewer than 10 World Cup finals matches since 1974, and have watched every European cup, European championship, FA Cup, etc since around that time. I know the game and I absolutely love it.
My objection is to the fundamentalism of people like you insisting we must all call it football or the conversation cannot go on. It’s all holier than thou, all primary school.
For your information, few people outside Australia call it the ‘world game’. It is the world’s biggest game — everyone knows that, it doesnt even need to be said. There is no dispute. Peoplel like SBS and the late, great Johnny Warren coined it (I believe) because they felt like the little kids trampled in the schoolyard who wanted to remind the school bullies that their daddy was the biggest guy outside the yard.
But I have lived in countries where soccer is king, and wherever that is the case, all other sports are trampled underfoot and slowly wither. No respect is shown to them at all. Soccer/football is the worst bully of all.
For the sake of the other footballing codes, I hope that never happens here in Australia, which is a paradise for those who love many footballing codes rather than just one.

By: westy

westy — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:06:32 +0000

Shahsan I agree but they have some ability to learn quickly. Thrashed in the Confederations Cup by Brazil 5 to nil then 2 to 0 by South Africa they gave Iraq the fright of their lives with a scoreless draw. In fact the NZers were more positive.
Unlike many limited teams the NZers actually try to score. With a very limited base they have a penchant for producing an odd individual striker/s of some reasonable quality especially in the air.
I feel sorry for Bahrain but as we know we have all been there. The fact is what we lack technically they lack in physical no nonsense defence and quality goalkeeping. I do not mean courage they put their bodies on the line but they have a tendency in defence to slightly back of and seek or expect greater assistance from the official whereas with the the All Whites contact is paramount with a sidewards glance and prayer afterwards to the official.
By the way the kangaroos have at least 5 foreign born players and the wallabies ten. We are an immigrant country. Bahrain also has migrant workers and offers citizen ship much more generously than some other Middle Eastern Countries.
You do have to love the NZers though ” We will lose for oil”

By: K B

K B — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:49:46 +0000

Shahsan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4I3-w9589E

Yep its the world game 208 FIFA member nations more than the United nation members.. I think we can safely say it’s indeed the world game… yep real football as being the root of all football perhaps with the English London Schools Football … Harrow Football the great ancestor of the English FA dating as far back as the Sixteenth Century with a round ball… (see video above)

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:43:29 +0000

I agree with that. It would merely be interesting to have NZ in the same group. Won’t be easy, as they will raise their game several notches against Australia. But sadly , i suspect they will get hammered by almost everyone else. Their results will be much like 1982 I suspect.

By: westy

westy — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:36:00 +0000

The author is also a little to trite suggesting NZ qualification is tarnished beating countries with a population of less than one million. On their way to getting to be Asia’s fifth team Bahrain did have wins over japan Oman and thailand , finishing above Uzbekistan and Oman and pulling off fighting draw against Saudi Arabia to earn qualification against New Zealand.
These countries have more than a million in their population. Do not denigrate NZers achievement Bahrain can play.
I remember a time when NZ had to get past taiwan / Australia/ indonesia / Saudi Arabia /Kuwait and China to get to the 1982 World Cup. If it was a little easier this time good on them.
Shasan the last team I would want in our group would be New Zealand.
Republican contrary to what you state I think if Australia does not play Australians support New Zealand . this was the case in rugby World cups and my experience to date. love to beat them but if we are not there they are my team.

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:50:24 +0000

Show respect? Terms such as ‘world game’ and ‘real football’ are underhanded, passive-aggressive ways of saying that teh codes beloved of millions of people the world over, such as US, Canadian, Gaelic, Aussie rules, rugby union/league football, are somehow not real football codes or even games.
And if the ROAR moderators were as pedantic as you they would have called the tags at the top ‘rugby union’ (and not just rugby), rugby league (and not just league, which means many things but is not the real name of a sport, just a handy shorthand in Australia to avoid confusion), and Aussie Rules (and not AFL, which is a name of the competition, not the sport).
They called it football I suspect to shut up people like yourself, for if they hadn’t, Spiro, Zac and the whole family would never have heard the end of it (indeed, we still havent).

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:42:11 +0000

Ok, so it wasnt teh Arab countries or the AFC?

By: AndyRoo

AndyRoo — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:28:06 +0000

Sepp Blatter anounced oceania would get an automatic spot (back when Australia was still a member), then it was revoked and we had to beat Uruguay (knocking out NZ on the way).

For 2010 the first time it has been possible for both countries to qualify they both did.

By: K B

K B — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:27:59 +0000

I think it does matter greatly in the eyes of the late Johnny Warren and of the Football family… Not to mention the ROAR moderators who must have thought long and hard before they tagged their threads… I don’t think it’s too much to ask to show some respect for the code on a Football thread… If you wish to call it soccer do it on the AFL site no problems there, that’s your thread presumably …

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:25:46 +0000

Who backtracked? Was there ever an automatic spot for Oceania?

By: AndyRoo

AndyRoo — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:18:12 +0000

Well since they backtracked on the automatic spot for oceania we ahve done pretty well. It has meant 2 have made it instead of a max of one

Seems that Automatic spot was deserved!

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:11:07 +0000

That’s why Australia and NZ were kicked out of Asia in the first place, back in the 80s. The Arab lobby is very strong in the AFC.
And poor Bahrain. This is the second time in a row they have missed out (the last time to Dwight Yorke’s TnT), each time after very long and hard campaigns.
To add salt to the wound , the awards for the match tonight were sponsored by Gulf Air, national airline of … Bahrain!

By: AndyRoo

AndyRoo — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:09:31 +0000

Well the President of the AFC is from Quatar and a Bahrainian tried to ursurp him so he is probably pretty happy the Bahrain officials won’t be invited to SA2010 on an official basis

but there should be a few sad faces in the west right now.

By: westy

westy — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:08:30 +0000

Pippinu it would help if they defended properly. Well done NZ.

By: AndyRoo

AndyRoo — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:04:32 +0000

Well Bahrain were the 5th best team in Asia and they didn’t deserve to sneak that one.