Storm not feeling heat from Super 15 rival
By Guy Hand, 13 Nov 2009 Guy Hand is a Roar Pro
- Tagged:
- Melbourne rugby union, Melbourne Storm, NRL, Rugby League, Super 15
152 Have your say
Melbourne Storm have dismissed the notion the city’s new Super 15 rugby union franchise is a threat to the NRL club.
The Storm would appear to have most to lose with the announcement of a Melbourne rugby union team starting in 2011 – with the prospect of a cross-code rival cannibalising their fan following.
But chief executive Brian Waldron said a Melbourne rugby union team would be good for both the region and the Storm, believing a new code in town will help spike Victorian interest in non-AFL sports.
The team, likely to be named the Rebels, will also play a more truncated season than the NRL – possibly just eight home matches over an 18-week period.
“We don’t see them as being a threat,” Waldron said.
“If anything, it will raise the profile of the alternative sports in this market, whether it’s the Victory (soccer), the Storm or the Rebels.
“They essentially only play for half a season compared to what we do.
“It’s good for the city. We’re very comfortable with their involvement and we wish them all the best.”
The Storm’s run of four successive NRL grand final appearances has built their profile to unprecedented levels and shown they boast a rusted-on supporter base of around 12,000.
The club hopes that will lift further with the move to a brand new purpose-built 31,000-capacity rectangular stadium early next year – a venue they will share with the new union team.
Waldron conceded existing Storm fans would probably have an interest in the Rebels, but was confident there would be no bleeding of fans from one code to the other.
“We’ve got 12 years’ history now, and a strong loyal base of people who follow us and we’ll continue to grow that,” Waldron said.
“There’ll be a crossover of people that are interested rather than the `choice of’. We would have thought anyone who has an interest in the Storm would also have an interest in the Rebels.
“But whatever that involvement is, I don’t think that will be an issue for us. We’ll continue to grow our base leading into the new stadium.”
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Paley said | November 13th 2009 @ 3:49am | Report comment
He is correct, there is no reason why rugby and union can’t coexist in Melbourne. Clearly the rugby side are the established side whereas the union mob are an unknown quantity but if the union folk can lay off the usual antagonistic nonsense they often seem duty bound to spout when it comes to other sports then there will be room for both.
Timmypig said | November 13th 2009 @ 3:59am | Report comment
Well actually Paley I was going to suggest that it was refreshing to hear a Rugby League official make sensible points without resorting to the 1890s class hatred chip on the shoulder that some (not all) Leaguies affect from time to time. But I agree with you that there is no reason why LEAGUE and Rugby can’t coexist in Melbourne
Paley said | November 13th 2009 @ 4:04am | Report comment
I am glad we agree that rugby and union can coexist. However my comments about the antagonistic nonsense are not entirely baseless. Already some union chap called Fitzsimons has written a column saying that union will take over from rugby in Melbourne and the rugby team should relocate to the Central Cost. So while the rugby chap is wishing the union team well we have a union journalist already being antagonistic.
AC said | November 13th 2009 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Happens both ways mate. Sells papers. Who cares…
King of the Gorganites said | November 13th 2009 @ 7:49am | Report comment
its great news about the melbourne rugby team. it means more local derbies for us, and more rugby to watch on tele. this will definately help tv ratings. the beauty of the new format is that we are guaranteed of having an australian team in the play offs.
as for rugby taking over league in melbourne? good question. only time will tell. i dont think rugby will destroy the storm, but it will certainly be more poplular and draw larger crowds then the storm. the benefit rugby has is the significant ex-pat population living in melbourne. im not sure of the numbers, but i am sure some on here is, of the numbers of kiwis; pommies; saffas, kiving in meloburne. i expect them to be large. further, there is a siginifcant islander community in melbourne. i think that will mean the team will be well supported. but results are vital, espically in the 2nd+ years.
Something that should be considered is Argentina. I think there is a good opportunity there. The argies have been given a tentative invitation to join the tri nations in the coming years. However, that is reliant on Argentina having all there players based in the southern hemisphere. Basically that means the 25 best argentines will have to relocate to S15 teams. Melbourne has the opportunity to get the first pick. Juan martin herndazez (all however it is spelt) is playing for the sharks or stormers in RSA already. Getting some argies would provided much need experience, especially in the forward. Aussie teams generally need some muscle. Also, they could look to build a r/ship with Argentina if they have a number of there games there…..trial matches over there….TV ratings in the south American market etc. so basically if I was recruiting for the Melbourne team I would aim to get 5 aussie players who are currently in Europe, 5+ argies who are in Europe, and the rest of the team can be based on young up and comers.
i see a close relationship with argentina being benefical to australia, melbourne and argentina. what about the argintine government/rugby becoming an investor in the club. a 20% ownership of the clu to ensure a minimum amount of argiintine palyers in the squad? that would help spread tv ratings in south america.
bring on 2011
True Tah said | November 13th 2009 @ 8:02am | Report comment
King
the problem with your plan is that Australian rugby could potentially end up with foreigners taking key positions in domestic clubs, which mean our national team would be weaker.
And I dont think the Argentine government has enough money to invest in Melbourne.
MattRusty said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:35am | Report comment
King of: “the beauty of the new format is that we are guaranteed of having an australian team in the play offs”.
Huh???? How does the guarantee work? Is it rigged?
MyGeneration said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:47am | Report comment
I think the conference system they are talking about guarantees that at least one team from each conference gets in(similar to NFL). Meaning at least one team from the Australian conference gets in. I’m not sure how many teams make the play-offs in all. The new conferences are on the Super 15 site:
http://www.thesuper15.com/
Pippinu said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:57am | Report comment
MyGen
I notice in that link that they are using the name: Melbourne for the moment.
You know what – let’s bin this provincial bull$hit once and for all.
It’s a new club – it’s not a state rep team – 85% of all Victorians live within spitting distance of the CBD – let’s just call the damn thing: Melbourne!!!
Maybe add Rebels (don’t mind that at all), if not – just leave it as Melbourne.
At the end of the day – that’s what it is – let’s not kid ourselves otherwise.
For once, the rest of the world will know precisely where a S15 resides!!
MyGeneration said | November 13th 2009 @ 11:04am | Report comment
You’re right, I hadn’t noticed. I really do hate this franchise rubbish. I just don’t know how you can get an emotional involvement with teams that come from nowhere.
Pippinu said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:50am | Report comment
MattRusty
we had a huge discussion on this point a few months back.
None of us really know precisely how it’s meant to work, but you could envisage scenarios where:
1. the top team of each conference is guaranteed immediate entry into the finals, with the other three spots decided on the basis of the overall best performances; or
2. you take the top six off an aggregate ladder (for want of a better term) – but even in that sort of scenario, toss it around any way you want – and each conference is almost guaranteed representation in the top 6 (it’s very difficult for all five teams of one conference to finish up in the bottom 9 spots – not impossible – but a whole lot of things would have to transpire to make that a possibility).
The real question becomes – how do you determine the finishing spots – do you give primacy to finishing top of your conference or higher up in the aggregate ladder?
If primacy is given to top spot in the conference system – then each union has a team that will host a finals game in the first week of finals – a very attractive proposition.
MattRusty said | November 13th 2009 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Thanks Pippinu,
It’s consistent with the rules of rugby union, very very confusing and complicated.
Pippinu said | November 13th 2009 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
heh, heh – ain’t that the truth!!
jake said | November 13th 2009 @ 5:44pm | Report comment
Im a kiwi expat living in melbourne, and im getting my season ticket to the storm next year! Screw the rugby watching paint dry is more fun!!!
oikee said | November 13th 2009 @ 7:56am | Report comment
Nice one Kingy, forget about local talent, which is very weak anyway, and why dont we just watch the Argie comp.
I am pleased the Melbourne franshise won, at least now the Melbourne public will be able to tell the difference between Rugby, and running rugby league.
Matt S said | November 13th 2009 @ 8:33am | Report comment
So Peter Fitzsimmons article in the SMH today isn’t bringing out the same old prejudices against league?
http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/news/union-will-flourish-where-league-struggles/2009/11/12/1257615126512.html
AC said | November 13th 2009 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Let’s face it. He’s a t0ss3r, a real loud mouth — always was. Who really listens to him anyway?
sheek said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:07pm | Report comment
Don’t be shy – you meant ‘tosser’!
Pippinu said | November 13th 2009 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Well – it’s written with his usual smart @rsey manner – but Fitzsimmons is making a good point on this occasion.
The Storm has done all right in Melbourne from a zero base – and good luck to them.
But that’s the point – Union does not start from a zero base in Melbourne (it merely looks like a zero base compared to ausse rules).
MyGeneration said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:11am | Report comment
It IS a good point, but League is no longer at zero. Some will say they’re not much above, but in a couple of years we’ll see how many Storm supporters were Union supporters in waiting, and how many are rusted-on League supporters. It could be that Union draws its support from a completely different demographic, in which case the Storm won’t be hurt at all. The trouble with Fitzsimmons article is he seems to assume that Union is going to take supporters away from League, based mainly on his own prejudices and desire to say “I told you so”. So his “smart @rsey manner” undermines any good points he might make.
Redb said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
Mygen,
Fitzsimmons is being deliberately inflamatory. As always there is some truth in his comments, but ultimately they’re about 5 years out of date in terms of historical usefulness for rugby in Melbourne.
IMO in 2004 if SANZAR had awarded Melbourne the 4th licence instead of Perth, then yes a Super rugby team would have knocked Storm about for sure. They didnt, Storm have grown much stronger since then to the point where many Melbournians think rugby they think Storm.
Older fans of rugby in Melbourne who have always known the difference would now be out numbered by the bandwagon new fans of ‘rugby’ league.
Union has withered on the vine here for new support.
That’s not to say with the current structures of schoolboy union, Wallabies brand still recognisable and greater awareness of rugby that the new team will not be successful, but a direct threat to Storm (whilst still winning) they are not.
The opportunity perhaps for rugby will really come when Storm’s on field success fades, but by that time they will have enough rusted on fans to sustain them IMO.
My advice is to get the new Melbourne super rugby in the finals within 3 years or else they will be number 2 in ‘rugby’ for sometime in Melb.
From a Melbourne perspective there is no reason why you couldn’t support both teams.
I’d like to see an AFL game, packaged with a rugby and soccer match over a certain weekend. Yahoo!
Redb
M1tch said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:38am | Report comment
Fitzy is a douche, somple as that
MyGeneration said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:38am | Report comment
A lot will depend on the Wallabies returning to form, as well. The new team could obviously piggyback off some games in Melbourne from a competitive and exciting Wallabies team, rather than the pedestrian lot going around at the moment.
Also, hopefully the “Melbourne perspective” won’t get poisoned by the likes of Fitzsimmons.
oikee said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
oikee said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:19am | Report comment
As the Melbourne AFL public would say, Who is this peirre Fizglimmins guy.???
King of the Gorganites said | November 13th 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Why are people so quick to dismiss the presence of foreigners in our super rugby sides. what success has wholly australian teams delivered? little. having some argies, islanders, and saffas would help engage the local community and improve the stadnard of rugby. i think we are having ourselves on if we believe there is enough local talent to make a competitive side. as for the 100 players playing overseas- name them JON. there is a dozen, at best, super rugby players in eurpe at present. the rest are playing 2nd divsion french or english rugby, or are players who have not and can not make it in the southern hemisphere. do we really want a palyer like matt henjak back?
to elaborate on why i want argies in australian teams, particularly melbourne, is simply to stregthen our weak forward packs. imagine the experience a young 20 year old proop would get by being in the same squad as an experience argie and saffa front rowers. it would be invaluable. lets look outside the box a bit here. french rugby certianly doesnt beliebe in french only sides. stade for example are full of foreigners. they are a marketers wet dream because they transcend paris, and become a truly international club. they are playing a HC game in brussels next month! lets internationlise our teams. bring a different outlook to the game.
as for oikee….you are a joke. RL is weak outside NSW/QLD and the north of england. u know it. the melbourne RU team will outdraw the storm easiley. this will be a good battle. no excuses. this will show people that RU is a better game, and a truly international game. melbourne could be playing trial games agaisnt international opponents.
oikee- have you sold your final out yet? croke park and san siro were sold out weeks ago.
oikee said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Your the Joke kingy, you want argie bargies playing the game, more bumsniffers. While rugby league will be getting the greatest backs you have ever seen playing NRL. Is it so hard to say NRL is the greatest comp, in the WORLD,
Besides, nobody will watch the rebels anyhow, no aussie talent, nobody interested. Dream a little dream for me Kingy.
AC said | November 13th 2009 @ 11:12am | Report comment
Argies? Bum sniffers? Sounds a bit racist Oikee!
oikee said | November 13th 2009 @ 11:26am | Report comment
Their is no such thing as racist, we all decend from Africa. Argies are my brothers, who live in Argentina where they belong.
keeper11 said | November 13th 2009 @ 9:06am | Report comment
NRL prpogandists can say what they like….new MEL S15 will Storm for what it is…
news-limited $6million a year blackhole, an offshoot so league can runaround calling itself ‘national’.. ..
4 times premiers yet can barely muster over 13000 a game….
..and assumes league hasn’t sold out its feeble 3 1/2 nation ‘final’ ..
else it we would have already been trumpeted on back page of the DT …which as we know the only thing Oikee reads….!
Michael B said | November 13th 2009 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Get over yourself you troll.
Mate I wouldn’t be talking about crowds when most A-League teams are struggling to hit 10K – Some of them would love to have an avg of 13,000 to a game.
Storm have built a loyal following, get decent crowds, good TV ratings, esp on Fox. They bring in a lot more to News Ltd than what some keyboard warrior like yourself thinks!
King of the Gorganites said | November 13th 2009 @ 9:25am | Report comment
ha exactly. the terror loves to talk up sold out games for RL. unfornuately for them it doesnt happen to often. has there been any negative press about the 4nations crowds? not that ive heard or seen. in all honesty the crowds have been disappointing.
i wouldnt be so concerned about league crowds if league commentators didnt continually criticise rugby and take cheap shots at it. lot of stupid jibes about scrums and pentalty counts. listened to 2GB lately? channel nine is even worse.
Firestarter Bob said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:12am | Report comment
Given RU sits in last place in the pecking order of Australia’s football codes we can safely say most Australians agree with 2GB and channel nine.
And as for having our Super rugby teams populated by foreigners. The Super 14 isn’t the Premier League! Australians want to watch Australians play football, not a team full of foriegners. That’s why the Melbourne Rebels are looking at trying to get local Vic players, including one or two from the AFL.
AC said | November 13th 2009 @ 11:17am | Report comment
No I disagree mate. If it sits in last place amongst football codes, and it is truly a case of no one cares, there’d be no mud being slung it.
Do people get on 2GB saying Hockey is a crap game?
I suspect it’s more people’s insecurity in wondering if Rugby League’s rules changes over the decades really make it a better game. I’m not sold on the dogma of either code. I just know which one I prefer to play…
oikee said | November 13th 2009 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Fair enough AC, and if people were not insecure, they would have no problem coming onto this blog with something useful to say, instead of insecure arguments. You have a point, but rugby league has the rules perfect, no complaints from our side.
King of the Gorganites said | November 13th 2009 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
exactly. they fear what they dont know.
the leaguies started the renewed code war when they started bagging rugby every chance they got.
what they did though was polarise opinion. people such as myself who were probably 60% RU/ 40% RU were pushed to extremes.
oikee said | November 13th 2009 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
Hey Kingy, i dont know what Old boys school you went to, or what intelligience you gained from those private schools you enjoyed, but come on, tell the truth, we can all see that 40% Union and 60% union gives us 100%union, and it shows.
King of the Gorganites said | November 13th 2009 @ 4:18pm | Report comment
*40% RL
oikee said | November 13th 2009 @ 5:07pm | Report comment
Nice work Kingy, at least you adjusted that mistake, it was after all only 40%, not millions in that little error. And i am not talking brain-cells, cheers, thanks for that correction. Maths was my major.
M1tch said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:27am | Report comment
actually 2 mil goes into junior development
Storms finances will improve with new stadium
Mick from Giralang said | November 13th 2009 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
Why do the union cheerleaders keep peddling the fib that the NRL grand final was not a sellout?
King of the Gorganites said | November 13th 2009 @ 4:19pm | Report comment
who said that?
that was probably the only game they did sell out
meanwhile 80K London, 80K Dublin, 80KMilan….should i keep going
M1tch said | November 14th 2009 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Rugby Union is big in England and Ireland – wow total shock..
Shocked at 80 for Italy, although I suppose they are used to seeing scorelines of 3-0
oikee said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
They have already sold it out, they have opened another top teir to let the groundswell in, and at least they get their money’s worth, not free ticketed union drivel. Here you want some of this, come get it sucker.
I dont think the 12 thousand Storm supporters would tear up their Jerseys to watch your union drivel. Go have a lemonade Keeper, or a glass of Cherry you toff.
The Link said | November 13th 2009 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
So why is 13k a game a failure in Rugby League In Melbourne but represents the benchmark and as yet untouched promise land for most A-League sides?
King of the Gorganites said | November 13th 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
13K is average at best.
at least its bigger then the aus v france game got in paris. that was 6K!
oikee said | November 13th 2009 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
6 thousand paying customers into the coffers, Ka-ching,
You ever notice when Union gets a crowd their veiwers drop, Ka-ching.
King of the Gorganites said | November 13th 2009 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
generally at any sport grounds it takes 10-12K to break even.
money would have been lost on that game in paris
oikee said | November 13th 2009 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
So we lost a few quid in Paris, but Ka-ching, we had a record crowd at the stoop, so a few thousand dollars their, and a 40 thousand crowd at Elland road, not to mention the next 4 nations in oz, in whick spikey will want a peice of that action, Ka-ching, and a whole new wave of international rugby league supporters. Ka bloody ching. Mate, everyone i know has taken to this tournament, and from little oysters, pearls flourish.
No, the oikster knows his sport, and rugby league is looking fine, you worry about drops in your 80 thousand crowds, you cannot support freebies forever. Ka-ching.
The mighty all-blacks only got 40 odd thousand in Tokyo, and most of them were toffy apples on holiday. The kangaroos always sell millions, its our favorite t/v sport while they holidaying in Gay Parrie or London. And we will be back,so expect more the same, but lets talk crowds next time. I think ours are certain to gain growth. What you think Kingy. Your at 80 grand now, you want to back yourself for crowd loss. And we only have 6 thousand to beat in Gay parrie. .
Spikey will pay our bills, they love rugby league.
M1tch said | November 14th 2009 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
have you been to olympic park?
its a whole for league and soccer
probably why aru didnt included the rugby last time because they wanted a proper ground for the team.
AndyRoo said | November 13th 2009 @ 9:44am | Report comment
I think the storm lose the money they do largely because they have to spend a lot on advertising and development…something the RU team should be doing too….be interesting if they do.
Bay35Pablo said | November 13th 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Methinks Waldron doth protest his indifference too much ….
Union had more of a history and presence in Vic before the Storm started. The Storm has ridden off that somewhat, as when given a choice between no real union and league, the fans will follow league rather than nothing at all. Some of those fans will swing back to union, although probably stay supporting league.
There is enough room in Melbourne for both codes, but there will be a big overlap in fan base.
Player base will be interesting. That will be a big competition, with union having the schools but league building of the back of the Storm over 12 years. Sound familiar?
AndyRoo said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:22am | Report comment
I believe him when he thinks it will be good for the Storm. Waldron should be using this Sydney paranoia to really push home the need for his team to be on FTA at a decent time, which would help his club immensely. Not sure if that’s at all possible for the Rebels, are they allowed to negotiate with fox to release some of their games to FTA?
So many things could happen but I expect that the Rebels will get a much better time of it in the media and will hit the ground running…. Then after a few years the games will start to be judged on their merits and we will see if the Emperor (RU) is wearing any clothes.
The Link said | November 13th 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
So basically Waldron is dammed if he does or doesn’t criticise the Rebels?
babyg said | November 13th 2009 @ 10:03am | Report comment
I think it can only be good for both codes in Melbourne. Hoepfully we will have both the Storm and the new union team pushing development of juniors down in Melbourne, plus more people playing touch football too. Alot of kids these days dabble in both league and union so it would be good to see that realtionship in Vic.
As crowds, the union side could get a good turnout due to the existing expat stuff and also the fact that their is still a strong anti-rugby league sentiment in Vic, but on the other hand the super 15 in general will be further dilluted of talent which will have an effect on success and entertainment value.
If Storm get their games shown on tv, something that they deserve, then the Storm will come out on top. Good luck to both teams.