By Adrian Musolino
November 15th 2009 @ 2:25am
New Zealand All Whites lead the way for the minnows
New Zealand coach Ricki Herbert, left, and captain Ryan Nelsen reacts after their team's 1-0 win over Bahrain in the World Cup qualifying playoff second leg soccer match at Westpac Stadium in Wellington, New Zealand, Saturday, Nov. 14, 2009. (AP Photo/NZPA, Ross Setford)
A Rory Fallon header and a Mark Paston penalty save have sent the New Zealand All Whites through to the World Cup for the first time since 1982; the first time ever they’ll compete alongside Australia on the biggest stage. Whether you were cheering for the All Whites or not, you cannot deny this is a landmark occasion for football on both sides of the Tasman.
The playoff may not have matched the intensity of Australia’s shootout triumph four years ago, but it was certainly edge of your seat stuff.
Fallon’s brilliant header from a Leo Bertos corner proved the difference in the end, while Paston’s save echoed Mark Schwarzer’s heroics from four years ago.
There were scenes reminiscent of Sydney four years ago when the final whistle blew and Wellington erupted.
Now, in the aftermath of the famous victory, attention turns to 2010 and two questions loom. Firstly, are they ready for what awaits them in South Africa? Secondly, what will the political fallout of their success be?
The AFC won’t be impressed that they have had one of their nation’s bundled out by a national team made up primarily of a club allowed to play within an Asian league, as explained here.
What impact that has on the Wellington Phoenix remains to be seen.
And there will certainly be questions asked about the relatively easy path an Oceania confederation without Australia has to World Cup qualification.
As Kiwi journo Steve Mcmorran pointed out : “New Zealand will therefore achieve an unusual distinction if it manages to qualify. It will likely become the first nation in World Cup history to qualify without defeating a country with a population of more than one million.”
Surely the AFC and other confederations will force FIFA to examine this situation.
As the New Zealand press had stressed before the qualifier, the All Whites will probably never have a better opportunity to qualify.
The pressure will be on New Zealand to justify their place at the World Cup.
While they have the experience of the Confederations Cup campaign in South Africa this year, even their most ardent supporters will agree they could be well out of their depth at the World Cup.
Renowned journalist Matthew Hall, writing for SBS Sport, probably summed up the feelings of many football fans when he claimed the Bahrain-New Zealand clash was a contest “to discover who will be the worst team in South Africa.”
Worrying is the fact that aside from the likes of Ryan Nelsen, Chris Killen and goal scorer Rory Fallon, the All Whites are primarily made up of players from the A-League, the MLS and the domestic football championship.
The early finish of the A-League – compounded if the Wellington Phoenix fails to make the final six – along with the out of sync MLS will make it difficult for their players to stay match fit until the World Cup.
But perhaps we should put aside those concerns for a future day.
Today they should be celebrating this remarkable achievement and acknowledging Ricki Herbert and his team for the progress New Zealand football has made.
It is a huge fillip for the fortunes for the game in the rugby-dominated land, not to mention for the Phoenix who will undoubtedly be galvanised for the remainder of the A-League; hopefully off-field too with a boost in interest.
New Zealand’s victory can also be seen as a victory for the league itself with seven of the starting eleven plying their trade in the A-League.
With A-Leaguers a rarity in the Socceroos – only Jason Culina and Craig Moore are likely World Cup starters, and that may be dependent on how they are able to elongate their seasons beyond the A-League – the presence of the All Whites immediately multiplies the number of Australian league representatives in South Africa.
For the likes of Shane Smeltz, Michael McGlinchey, Mark Paston, etc, the experience of a World Cup will make them better players.
It’s certainly shaping up as a World Cup for the minnows.
There is Honduras; like the All Whites in a World Cup for the second time, ironically appearing in the same tournament as New Zealand in Spain, 1982, and a country suffering political crisis at home following a military coup in June.
North Korea will make their first appearance since 1966, the rogue state joining their southern rivals.
Slovakia has qualified for the first time, Chile return for the first time since France 1998, while the African qualifiers remain in the balance with North Africa re-emerging as a force on the continent.
Fittingly for a World Cup bringing the game to a new frontier – the first on the African continent – all confederations will be represented.
It’ll be a World Cup in the truest sense of the word.
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(94)
Alex said | November 15th 2009 @ 3:16am | Report comment
Oh what is the the problem. Plenty of rubbish sides have qualified.
Mr cheese said | November 15th 2009 @ 4:36am | Report comment
Yes
E.g. Australia
eh said | November 15th 2009 @ 8:03am | Report comment
and some that flatter to deceive…. eg england
jmo said | November 15th 2009 @ 8:49am | Report comment
and some that dive to deceive
Mr cheese said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:34am | Report comment
I don’t flatter anyone.
I don’t deceive anyone either.
My point is still a fair one, however: one of the rubbish sides to have qualified is Australia.
Freud of Football said | November 15th 2009 @ 10:23am | Report comment
Thankyou to our english loving friend Mr Cheese for his ever insightful anti-australian comments.
Mr cheese said | November 15th 2009 @ 11:16am | Report comment
Anti-Australian ?
Er…………..no. I wouldn’t criticise an Aussie for saying that the English are rubbish at tennis or RL or RU etc. etc. etc. You would be right to make that observation.
I merely pointed out that the Australian team is one of the poor ones going to South Africa. To conflate that with anti-Australia feelings is simply wrong.
I make no apology for liking England, but it seems fair to me that one should be able to say something about the Aus soccer team without being called anti-Australian.
Robbo said | November 15th 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Mr Cheese – Australia is comfortably within the top 32 teams in the world – so it is hardly surprising that they have qualified. They are not a “rubbish” side by any measure (New Zealand, North Korea etc are the actual rubbish sides at the cup, in that they are well outside the top 32 and are therefore very lucky to be there.
As I recall the last time Australia played England Australia won 3-1.
Mr cheese said | November 15th 2009 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Indeed. And the reigning Olympic Champions in Rugby Union are the USA.
Read into that what you want.
I don’t know anything about N Korea, apart from what they did in 1966.
Roarers are wrong, in fact, to attribute anti-Australian views to me. The Aussies hate us a Hell of a lot more than we hate them.
Answer this question, though: apart from the ‘keeper and Tim Cahill, who are the strong players in your team ? Perhaps there are a few I’ve overlooked, but I doubt it.
Best wishes, and don’t take soccer too seriously.
Dan said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:21pm | Report comment
Mr Cheese,
You should be truly thankful that we don’t
.
England has 6 times as many rugby players as Australia and Rugby is the only sport where Australia and England have what can be accurately be called a rivalry (in Cricket I don’t think you’ve earnt the right to be called a real rival of Australia just yet – despite the whole ashes thing. Maybe when you’ve won a couple series in our backyard). In soccer we should have even less chance of beating you than your Rugby League side stands against the Kangaroos (this is a funny one considering you have the player numbers – your team just looks scared of our boys…). Yet Australia did beat England in England the last time they played a game of soccer. Yes it was 8 years ago, but a team like Australia should never have had the cattle to challenge the likes of England – let alone beat them 3-1.
What on earth is wrong with England that this game was ever lost in the first place? It’s akin to England sending over a Australian Rules Football team and somehow managing to beat the All Australian side. I’ll admit that I’m relatively ignorant when it comes to soccer, but I know that England having the top league in the world should mean something for their national side. Yet you seem to be dominated by countries like Sweden… which makes you sound kinda disappointing. Maybe it’s the weather over there? I don’t know :S .
andrewMc said | November 15th 2009 @ 4:51am | Report comment
There will be political fall out. I just hope it doesn’t affect Australia too much.
And remember, there will be no West Asian nations at the world cup.
midfield general said | November 15th 2009 @ 7:48am | Report comment
Yes Wellington getting kicked out of A league for one. There might even be calls for Australia to be booted out of Asia from middle east.
Kurt said | November 15th 2009 @ 5:12am | Report comment
How come for all those years we had to play off against sides like Argentina and Uruguay and then the Kiwis get to play against a country that is essentially an extended airport transit lounge?
Kelly said | November 15th 2009 @ 7:47am | Report comment
You’re blaming NZ for the fact that its Pacific neighbors are poor in terms of performance. How is that their fault? and how is it NZ fault that FIFA makes the call?
Lets also conveniently ignore the fact that they made it with with virtually no competitive matches to help prepare for the playoff, a team who players are evenly distributed between three continents, and no money to attract quality friendlies to the far side of the world.
I’m amazed how people think NZ got it easy.
Robbo said | November 15th 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Yes, just imagine having to beat the might of Fiji and Bahrain to qualify for the world cup. Meanwhile France and Ireland (both teams which would smash NZ) have to play each other for the same prize.
danny said | November 15th 2009 @ 10:35am | Report comment
australia has previously had play-offs for qualification against an asian nation. 1997 at the mcg ring any bells?
megatron said | November 15th 2009 @ 5:42am | Report comment
Very happy for the Kiwis but you’re right Adrian. FIFA, under pressure from AFC for one, will have to change the system that gives Oceania – NZ – a two game playoff to get in.
Spiro Zavos said | November 15th 2009 @ 6:57am | Report comment
It should be remembered that there has always been a strong football culture in New Zealand. Rugby union predominates but football has been much stronger nationally in New Zealand than rugby league which is mainly concentrated in the Auckland area, and in the 1950s and 1960s particularly strong in the West Coast region. Football has had the iconic Chatham Cup tournament, a knock-out tournament that has drawn huge crowds in the past.
The thing that struck me watching the match was the intense involvement of the spectators, with the young men taking off their white shirts and waving them around. The noise, enthusiasm and cheering reminded me more of a British football crowd than a crowd of normally staid New Zealanders.
The victory of the All Whites should lead to a return of the football Tests between Australia and New Zealand which were a staple of the sporting diet in the 1920s with large crowds watching the contests.
whiskeymac said | November 15th 2009 @ 8:00am | Report comment
well done to NZ and commiserations to Bahrain, getting so close two tournaments in a row is heartbreaking.
if there is the opportunity to have football tests – just as was recently set up with turkey etc – then i hope that they are pursued at some level. i think they are a great idea. maybe we should also set something up with west asian countries – good way to foster stronger ties just in case there’s another vote on who’s in and out of the confederation.
Mr cheese said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Indeed.
One or two American soccer fans do this: they import a British / European culture by wearing scarves and singing etc.
A few of them even talk about their ‘Ultras’. To have proper Ultras, I think you need the Right Wing / Left Wing split that they have in Italy. ‘The Years Of Lead’ etc.
I don’t think you’ve had ‘The Years of Lead’ in either Aussie or NZ.
Dan said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:31pm | Report comment
Sprio,
What do you think of the possible match up between NZ and South Africa? This seems to me quite an interesting one politically in so far as in my experience soccer is very much a middle class white game in New Zealand while Rugby is much more diverse in its participation and fanbase, where as the situation in South Africa is still very much the reverse. Do you think a team called the “All Whites” would be given the same level of hospitality and respect as the All Blacks over there?
AndyRoo said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:00am | Report comment
NZ played at the confed cup in South Africa agianst South Africa….no drama.
They didn’t get the same level of respect though because the ALl whites are Mioonws and not the favorites but there were no issues.
Timmo said | November 16th 2009 @ 5:50pm | Report comment
Possible, South Africa will be given the easiest possible group me thinks so I wonder how the pots will be allocated.
Derryn said | November 15th 2009 @ 7:00am | Report comment
Great effort from the All Whites. Bahrain aren’t a bad side. They showed us a thing or two. Another great boost for Football in this region.
tifosi said | November 15th 2009 @ 7:46am | Report comment
The world must be turning upside down!!
The All Blacks only beating Italy only 20-6 in front of 80,00 fans in Milan whilst the All Whites make the FIFA world cup in front of 35,000 fans in wellington!! Good stuff from both football codes.
Spiro, that is what struck me as well.
It was an intense atmosphere the likes ive never seen before from the kiwi’s. Im assuming that the majority of the crowd are All Black fans as well but they dont seem to get this intense !!
Anyway it was a dramatic game, not one of high skill, but in sport drama is just as good.
Good luck at the world cup NZ !!
Alex said | November 15th 2009 @ 8:45am | Report comment
The all blacks provide the entertainment where the crowd has to at the football.
silver said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:54am | Report comment
I agree with you Alex but still congrats to the All Whites.
Mr cheese said | November 15th 2009 @ 11:17am | Report comment
I saw their game against the pays de Galles last week. There wasn’t much entertainment, franchement, but it was good to see the Remembrance Day ceremony.
Dan said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:39pm | Report comment
Soccer is low scoring and virtually no contact. This decreases the frequency of vicarious gratification from the onfield action and requires the crowd to keep themselves occupied. This is why soccer crowds turn on eachother too I believe… you just don’t see it at that level in the crowds of contact sports – just look at the fanaticism that accompanies American Football. There are fist fights here and there in that, but nothing like the organised murderous rage that seems to errupt periodically in soccer matches. Why? Violence on field and well portioned scoring opportunities.
AndyRoo said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Are you serious Dan…there are thousands of Soccer games played every week with no crowd violence.
You think the Bulldogs fans only misbehaved because Sonny Bill was boring to watch……
Mate if you don’t like football fair enough but keep your prejudices in the Rugby league tab aye.
Dan said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Just trying to connect the dots Andy.
There of course is a lot of soccer played where no violence occurs, but the fact that fans must be segregated in stadiums in many of the world’s major leagues is something rather peculiar to the sport of soccer. I jumped on the bandwagon during the last world cup and got my first real taste of the game. During that time I felt that soccer presented a real double edged sword to a supporter; being brilliantly (almost cathartically so) gratifying when your team managed to brake the deadlock with a score, but also painfully frustrating when held to nil. The lack of physical contact and the penalties that often result in what seems innocuous contact heightens this. I also found that soccer manages to create far greater outrage due to the sense of absolute injustice that results from seeing your team lose 1-0 due to simple bad refereeing… Bad decisions mar all sports, but in soccer the referee is far more conspicuous and often has a much greater impact on matches than even in Rugby Union.
These factors seem to me to foster a heightened sense of tension and frustration that are more likely to boil over than in contact sports with more varied methods of scoring. If you feel this is a result of “prejudice”, then by all means present me with your own hypothesis as to why violence, while not occurring at each match, is more pronounced among the soccer fans than all other major contact sports combined. Just look at the distinction between soccer and Rugby in Wales. Rugby is an essentially working class game in Wales, yet fans of respective teams intermingle at stadiums without much issue. In soccer in the other hand, police forces of a significant magnitude are often required to keep the peace.
You may think I’m just slagging the game, but I honestly could never come to grips with why there seemed to be such a necessity in segregating and legislating against the outbreak of violence (think Thatcher in the ’80s) until I actually watched it.
AndyRoo said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:59am | Report comment
Dan you always sucker me into replying with your initial statement that seems like your trolling….then you reply later with a much better response.
I would comment on each country individually but in regards to Wales I would say there is a definite culture their around football but has nothing to do with the game. Regardless of the result Cardiff and Swansea play in the lower English leagues against teams largely supported by working class English and there is trouble.
Millwall vs Cardiff could be 5 all assuring both teams of promotion and the aspect of their teams that are involved in violent behaviour will still look to “punch on”
I don’t think there is any violence in the Welsh league (where all teams are Welsh) for instance.
Dan said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:12am | Report comment
Andy,
I see what you mean about the culture of violence that seems to have formed around the game in certain areas. You’re most certainly right that it’s almost as if gang lines have been drawn around a number of teams, but I always take the view that it’s too wide spread to simply be that. There has to be a first stone thrown and the question must be asked why these stones haven’t been thrown to such degrees in other sports. What is it about the Welsh and English working class teams, for example, that causes such chaos? Why do the northern working class Rugby League teams not bay for eachothers blood for instance?
I’d imagine there are a number of factors and it would make a fascinating thesis, but on a purely base emotional level I felt I understood how violence catalyses in the game after experiencing the atmosphere myself.
I’m honestly not trying to provoke here, I’m really just trying to get a broader sense of it myself by pitting my interpretation to people of the game.
Lazza said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:47am | Report comment
What planet are you posting from Dan? Tennis is the sport that turns spectators into violent thugs – we see it every year at the Australian Open. I think it’s that little fluffy ball going backwards and forwards that just frustrates spectators and drives them to violence. A typical match lasts for hours as well so spectators have to find something else to keep themselves occupied.
Dan said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Isolated outbreaks with clear ethnic overtones are different from a general pattern than covers all classes and ethnicities. What planet are you posting from?
Lazza said | November 16th 2009 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
There are 190 Football nations and most don’t have any trouble. I don’t see any violence in Japan or Korea yet Football should be driving them to violence as well. You make sweeping generalisations about Football yet you object when I do the same with Tennis.
AndyRoo said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:55am | Report comment
The crowd were fantastic, and did their job letting the Ref know when Bahrain made a mistake…as all good home crowds should
Robbos said | November 15th 2009 @ 8:40am | Report comment
Certainly a night of high drama for the NZ people, they are going to the ‘Biggest show on Earth’. Let’s just enjoyed it & worry about the politics later, it was not NZ’s fault that Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia & Oman didn’t qualify.
agga78 said | November 15th 2009 @ 8:51am | Report comment
I think the atmosphere was helped by the Yellow fever crew down their usual end, who always make a great noise when Wellington play in the A league. The Kiwis deserved their win and though they will be underdogs to even get a point at the World cup, the beauty of football is with the right set up and a bit of luck they may do alright. As for the Bahrainis they need to have a good look at themselves if they stopped with the rolling around everywhere and hardened up, they probably would be in South Africa today. Now the Kiwi’s nation know why football is the worlds biggest and best game.
dasilva said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:15am | Report comment
Yeah I started watching the match supporting the Bahrain but when I saw all those players rolling around I kind of switch sides to NEw Zealand
However saying that the New zealand side were understandably guilty of play acting and time wasting as well especially in the second half where they were protecting the lead but at least they saved the playacting towards the end and not the beginning of the match.
Yeah well done to New Zealand and they deserved it.
All the talk about Australia getting kicked out of Asia.
that’s not going to happen. we had unaminous support from the executive board, So if Kuwait FA are unhappy about it then they can just grin and bear it. 2nd Australia is the only reason why Asia still has 4.5 spots in the last world cup due to the poor performances of the other Asian team there.
We are staying in Asia and the worst thing that could happen is Wellington phoenix getting kicked out of the A-league.
Fisher Price said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:53am | Report comment
So once you saw the NZ play acting did you show consistency and switch your allegiance back to Bahrain?
AndyRoo said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Since that Kiwi actually went off and had to be subbed I don’t think he was acting.
vladimir said | November 16th 2009 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
turn it up fisher price… bahrain were appalling in that regard and as is the case with a lot of other nations with supposedly higher skill levels there finishing and courage were sorely lacking… at least most of the south american nations can back up their flair with some clinical passing and finsihing and some steel… nz weren’t great, they reiles a lot on set pieces and long balls to their front three but they played some reasonable football as well, mostly stemming from bertos…
Joe FC said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Congratulations to the Kiwis nice to see them back on the world’s biggest stage. Commiserations to Bahrain falling at the intercontinental playoff for the second consecutive time.
keeper11 said | November 15th 2009 @ 10:44am | Report comment
watched it at a local pub in sydney and crowd was transfixed..
alot of cheering for kiwis..
ofcourse technically not high qulaity but for drama and emotion….fantastic
cut throat elimination big time sport in any code..is there anyhting better !!
WC2010 bring it on !!!!
and the other lesson…middle east football shouldn’t point the finger at aust or NZ..
poor scoring stats, inability to finish off games or handle intense pressure means NIL WC qualiifiers from their region ..
says it all….
,
Pippinu said | November 15th 2009 @ 11:17am | Report comment
As someone said – a world cup of minnows. Also heard that Mozambique qualified overnight, and a 2-0 home win against Portugal will be enough for Bosnia to qualify.
I was just wondering why those New Zealanders celebrating were holding Australian flags?
daso;va said | November 15th 2009 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Mozambique didn’t qualify. However they defeated Tunisia 1-0 (If Tunisia had won that match they would have qualified as they were two points in front of Nigeria). This dropped points allowed Nigeria to qualify when they defeated Kenya 3-2 in a very close match. Nigeria had to come back from a goal down at half time and they scored t he winner at the 83rd minute.
The side from africa qualified are Nigeria, Cameroon, Ivory Coast and Ghana. All of them have pedigree at the world cup
Egypt defeated Algeria 2-0 at home. This got them to be equal in points , head to head, goal scored and goal difference with Algeria.
Therefore there’s going to be a rematch on neutral soil to determine the last African spot
Derryn said | November 15th 2009 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
I hope we don’t play any of the African sides in the Finals. We would get pumped. I’m predicting at least one of the African nations will make the semi’s.
Mr cheese said | November 15th 2009 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
Pele has been saying that for 200 years. It won’t happen.
The best hope will be Cote d’Ivoire but I can’t see it.
dasilva said | November 15th 2009 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
Mr. cheese you are overlooking the crowd factor. Any side that has to play an african side will be a very difficult atmosphere. Who knows maybe that will influence the referees as well
If south Korea can make it to the semi-final at home then there’s no reason why an african side can’t make it.
LewDub said | November 15th 2009 @ 5:48pm | Report comment
smartest thing you’ve said Cheesy. Ivory Coast have been consistent and are a massive threat.
dasilva said | November 15th 2009 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
yeah
I have a feeling that it would be a home ground match for all of the african sides
However saying that. There is one african side I don’t mind facing, that will be South Africa the host itself. They are the weakest seeded team and arguably the weakest African team at the tournament.
.
dasilva said | November 15th 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
IF Egypt beat Algeria
Then Africa is going to have a pretty strong representation at the World Cup. I expect big things from then and don’t be surprised if there will be a fair amount of african sides in the knockout stages of the world cup. Perhaps African first semi finalist is a possibility.
yeah i stuffed up the username in the other post
Robbos said | November 16th 2009 @ 5:54am | Report comment
You have really confused me with that post Pip!!!!
Sam said | November 15th 2009 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
I think some of this is a bit unfair. The fact is that in soccer the best team doesn’t always win – it’s one of the virtues of the sport. Bahrain were good enough to be the 5th team in Asia – that means they’d done better then all those Asian teams below them. Yet when it came down to it Bahrain didn’t have the composure to beat NZ over two legs. I think NZ had many things going against them – especially the fact that they don’t get many quality games together (especially at home) – yet they won the two leg play-off and that is the way it goes. If Bahrain were good enough to win then they should have, plain and simple. As for the fact that many other good teams around the world didn’t qualify – everyone had their opportunity – and we can’t have 25 of the 32 WC spots allocated to Europe can we? NZ did what they needed to to qualify – other teams did not. As for the political ramifications – I hope FIFA doesn’t allow a few West Asian countries use their influence to try and destroy soccer in NZ, because it sounds like that is what they want to do.
David V. said | November 15th 2009 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
If Bahrain can be 5th in Asia and still lose to NZ it doesn’t say much about the quality of Asia, regardless of what the Asiaphiles on here will keep telling you.
westy said | November 15th 2009 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
The Europeans have the following list of members Andorra/ Albania/ Bosnia/ Faroe islands /Liechtenstein/luxembourg/SanMerino/Monaco/malta/Slovenia/slovakia /czech istate/macedonia/moldava /Cyprus (we look fiorward to a turkish and greek entrant )/georgia/Armenia and Azerbaijan/Vatican /Lituania/latvia, Estonia , iceland come to think of it Scotland wales and northern island are neat trick also. please do not tell me the Channel islands also have a team. i love the fact israel is now Europe.
Calling Bahrain a petrol station means faroe islands is a fishing boat, iceland a hotel near ageyserwith a bankrupt bank, liechtenstein a secret bank account owned by Switzerland a bigger secret bank. luxembmbeourd or for that matter belgium land france or germany did not consider worth it and the list goes on.
With the exception of a few New Zealand would be competitive against most and north korea could blow them to kingdom come except for israel which would probably get in first.
On amore serious note have a close look at the European groupings. Spain borders France borders both Italy and germany. The europeans jusifiably do very well in the places they earn for the world Cup and have been very adroit in organising their qualifiers.
David V. said | November 15th 2009 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
Come on, Europe’s depth is such that the average sides are infinitely better than most teams from other continents. The real quality of Asia drops after the best 10 teams.
Rob said | November 15th 2009 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
Good to have the Kiwis on board for next years road rip to RSA…..just hope that it doesnt mean the death of the Nix
Eamonn said | November 15th 2009 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
Heaps of A-League players will now be at the World Cup:)…must be a friggin good league after all….not good enough for Pim but good enough for Ricky.
But what will the Phoenix boys do to keep fit. Maybe play a couple of TESTS against the Socceroos, Aussie A-Leauge boys?..either that or they all get loaned to Melbourne Victory with Glen Moss.
David V. said | November 15th 2009 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
While the J-League will supply the bulk of players for Japan’s national team.
cab711 said | November 15th 2009 @ 4:22pm | Report comment
What an incredibly enjoyable game.
Great atmosphere from the kiwi crowd. Couldnt think of a better way to qualify for our neighbors.
Kiwis played everywhere. Whenever a red shirt had the ball there was always a man on him, so much spirit and commitment from the players. You can say what you will that an Oceania country qualified over an Asian country but Bahrain had many more opportunities to qualify before this game and squandered those, too bad, get over it.
If NZ were serious about their football they should join the Asian confederation. I felt the two teams were quite evenly matched especially when contrasted to the Socceroos Oman game a few hours later which was much more skillful yet lacked the same energy. Anyway, will be great to see them in the WC and who they will get grouped with.
AussieWallaby said | November 15th 2009 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
nice work kiwis.
It will be a pleasant sight watching teams pile on 4 to 6 goals on you in SA.
Its a joke that a team like NZ can qualify….. in no way should NZ feel that they are now on par with Aust….
you are light years apart and always will be….
Jerry said | November 15th 2009 @ 8:59pm | Report comment
Wow, what a tool.
I don’t think anyone really thinks NZ are as good as Aus at football, but then if we were gonna aspire to be as good as another country at football it wouldn’t be Aus. We know we’re there to make up the numbers…do you?
Shahsan said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:01pm | Report comment
You’re just trolling, arent you? The last time Australia and new zealand played, i believe NZ won 1-0.
And the last time Australia finished as Oceania champions and had to play off against the Asian team, it failed.
NZ succeeded in doing what it had to do, and all kudos to them.
Horza said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:19pm | Report comment
Played : June 9, 2005
Venue : Craven Cottage, London, England
Australia 1
Goal : Colosimo 87
Mark Schwarzer (Zeljko Kalac 46), Kevin Muscat, Craig Moore (Ljubo Milicevic 78), Lucas Neill, Tony Popovic, Brett Emerton (Ahmad Elrich 75), Tim Cahill, Jon McKain, Josip Skoko (Simon Colosimo 63), Mile Sterjovski (Archie Thompson 63), Scott Chipperfield,
New Zealand 0
Mark Paston, Che Bunce, Michael Wilson (Jeremy Christie 78), Steven Old, Danny Hay, Brett Fisher, David Mulligan, Tim Brown, Noah Nickey, Vaughan Coveny (Shane Smeltz 89), Adrian Webster (Leo Bertos 87)
Spiro Zavos said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:45pm | Report comment
Dan, football in New Zealand is played by all the different classes. There was a strong working class bias in the game during the 1950s and 1960s with sides like The Settlers and the Watersiders. But basically since the 1980s, football has become a national game in New Zealand in terms of numbers playing it and across the regions, without the intense following that rugby gets.
There doesn’t seem to be any reason why there can’t be a football Tri-Nations of Australia, South Africa and New Zealand. So memo to the administrators: bring it on while the interest is high.
Dan said | November 15th 2009 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
Really? That’s interesting, the game always seemed to have a very strong white fan base I felt when I was there, I never met any maori/polynesian kiwis that had much interest in the game.
Tri Nations just wouldn’t work though I don’t think. Soccer’s calender is far too convulted and busy as it stands to import a structure like that. Anything outside the qualification and knockout stages of a major tournament like the world cup is essentially a friendly and would be unlikely to generate interest sufficient enough to get enough star players to take leave from the clubs
cab711 said | November 16th 2009 @ 5:32am | Report comment
I met a Moari who once told me that his tribe only played soccer because, they were forbidden to play Rugby because it was regarded as a white sport. Never bothered to look into this but what you said jogged my memory.
Dan said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:45am | Report comment
I believe once upon a time that was the case, but that has long been a distant memory. Generally speaking though, the most working class areas of Auckland all play Rugby League – that is why the Kiwi rep side is almost completely polynesian. If you marched them out along side the All Whites they would almost be mirror images of eachother.
dasilva said | November 15th 2009 @ 10:09pm | Report comment
It could only work if its done in the offseason of respective leagues and each country can only send domestic players.
So an all A-league team vs NZ semi-professional league + wellington and a-league team vs South African Premier soccer league instead of the full strength national side (as no clubs would release players on a non-fifa date).
However I don’t really see this happening though
I think if anything we will have an offseason tri-nation with other Asian nations. I don’t think AFC is too keen in furthering strengthening relationship with New Zealand
Jeff said | November 15th 2009 @ 10:21pm | Report comment
Heremaia Ngata is a rather high profile maori name who has played soccer in New Zealand,
AussieWallaby, I too haven’t seen anywhere in this post where anyone has claimed New Zealand are on par with Australia.
I will tell you one thing Australia is no more apart of Asia than is Pitcairm Island and it is an absolute joke that they are playing in the Asian conference yet in every other sport they are part of Oceania.
New Zealand qualified for the world cup only playing 8 games 6 of them against the lowly rated Oceanic teams then they kept the Bahrainians scoreless at home in Manama before sneaking one past them in Wellington. That to me says well they deserve to be there as they have had bugger all quality lead up to Bahrain who technically had a overwhelming advantage with games played against tougher opposition and time together.
Imagine how good New Zealand would be if they were playing as regularily as the Asian Nations, judging on the effort they displayed in their two recent matches I think many Asian Nations would be nervous as is / would be Australia.
dasilva said | November 15th 2009 @ 11:26pm | Report comment
Australia is much Asian as Uzbekistan and Israel (although they were kicked out of Asia due to political reasons, they were in the AFC Asian Cup finals 3 times in the row and won the 1964 tournament)
Asia is a region and it contains many different cultures, religion and ethnicity.
Australia is quite closed proximity to Indonesia. It has been referred in Australian politics that Australia is a western country in an Asian region before.
There’s no reason why we can’t be part of Asian
I hope one day New Zealand and the rest of Oceania will become part of Asia as well.
Jeff said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:21am | Report comment
In all my 45 years that is the firstand one of the lamest reasons I have ever heard where someone has tried to justify Australia as an Asian country.
New Zealand has an Asian population that now makes up 10% of the total population wouldn’t this surely make New Zealand a more appropriate candidate for Asia?
If this is how Australia feels then maybe they should shift all their sporting allegiances to Asia, it’s ludicrous and now because the Asians got beat by a lowly ranked Oceanic teams they want to kick the Nix out of the A-league and demand a guaranteed 5th spot.
Is it New Zealands fault that the 5th best Asia could offer couldn’t get one over Oceania?
Is it New Zealands fault that Bahrain after playing a mammoth amount of games together and against generally a higher quality opposition in comparison to New Zealand therefore giving them (Bahrain) a supposed significant advantage failed when it really counted?
Does it worry Asia that the little upstarts from the South pacific could improve dramatically should they be included in a Asia Pacific competition?
Think about it NZ has had a less than desireable build up in the sense of qualification yet still took down a team ranked 20 places higher.
Still the suggestion that Australia is Asian is ludicrous. I haven’t met and Australian yet that claims he is asian actually quite the reverse!
AndyRoo said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Jeff, Australians would say theya re Australian….but I don’t think Fifa are going to give us our own continent.
Did you ask if they consider themselves Oceanian…I bet the answer to that is no too.
Jeff said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:12am | Report comment
There is no need to, the fact remains Australia is not an asian countrie and I see now that two Oceanaic teams have qualified at the expense of true Asian nations, there is calls from fans disgruntled ones at that for the expulsion of Australia from Asia.
Australia is not an Asian country never has been and never will be that is the point here!
I just find it absurd that people are complaining about New zealand going to the world cup and that Bahrain should have gone through (check fifa sites).
Question to you AndyRoo and Dasilva how much better do you think Asia would be if New Zealand was included, as is after 6 matches against lowly teams and two against the 5th best team in Asia they are set to grace the biggest stage in world soccer, Imagine how good and cohesive this team could be if they played together as often as Asian and European nations.
Asian countries know that New Zealand could be a serious threat and that is one of the biggest reasons why they do not wish to include them.
AndyRoo said | November 16th 2009 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
There are 3 or 4 discussion points in their mate.
I know NZ is a lot closer to the Pacific nations than us but I don’t see anything that makes Australia part of the pacific Islands so it’s not like we are giving up our heritage by jumping ship to the richer and more powerful confederation with more opportunities commercially and for competitive games. We are now complaining about only 20k coming to watch us trying to qualify for the Asian Cup….. we didn’t even have to play in qualifiers for the Oceanian nations cup.
It’s not some love of yum cha that has made us switch it is self interest.
Australia is always going to be seen as the Western Team in an Eastern Confederation. As the only white faces in Asia we are going to be painted as the bad guys plenty of times. But the extra games, pressure and not having things go our way will just toughen us up. We are not going to get the rub of the green in Asia, and it seems the team has got over “being the victim” and is just getting on with trying to perform well. There have been a few times where I question the move. It’s tough being the bad guy all the time and some of the AFC rules that we have to take on board for the A league don’t seem to be what’s best for our own competition (The AFC wants P&R and 33 rounds for example, not to mention dumping the Nix).
I think NZ would improve heaps if they played in Asia…..but there is a big tradeoff. With the money that comes from the Confed Cusp and World Club Comps they need to boost their youth development. They missed out on going to the U 20’s world cup and that is a huge tragedy. Even if somehow it does happen and the Nix have to leave the A league (I think they are safe) then absolutely NZ need to get a team in our NYL. That is probably more important than the survival of the Nix.
If the issue of world cup spots for Asia weren’t involved I think it’s only Japan, Iran and possibly Korea that would want us to stay in the AFC and only because we haven’t knocked them out of anything important.
The Koreans and Japanese seem to realise that having Australia does raise the standard and it gives them practise against a different type of opponent. I think those nations have moved beyond worrying about short term self interest and want to actually improve and do well once they make it to international competitions.
The impression I get from Iran and I am sure its not unanimous is they don’t mind someone upsetting the “Arabs” and we have taken their place as the bad guy.
The rest would probably boot us if not for the fact that we would likely take a full world cup qualifying spot with us. As soon as we don’t qualify for the world cup it will get interesting. If it happens for 2014 we could be booted, if it happens for 2018 we will likely be quite entrenched as having hosted some tournaments and being an asset to the ACL. It’s clear they didn’t let us in because they love Kangaroos.
It’s obvious that a lot of Asian countries were annoyed that we qualified and that we weren’t the push over they expected. They thought they were getting a near free half place and if they had of known we were as good as we were a lot of them would have voted differently. Teams like Thailand thought they were better than us. Having an unfair rep as a bunch of rugby players who cant play Football actually helped us for once!
Frankly the political power of Asian teams like Qatar and Bahrain is way above what it deserves to be and I don’t think the same trick (getting NZ into the AFC) would work twice though as after knocking out Bahrain it’s pretty obvious NZ would be a bananna skin for those mid level teams. They won’t let NZ in unless it means the half spot comes with it.
NZ has to realy want the switch too because it’s not all positive, you have to have your eyes open that is for sure.
dasilva said | November 16th 2009 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
Jeff
I support New Zealand to be part of Asia and to have regular qualification path. I also wish that the oceania region just get abandon and is merged with Asia so this issue about new zealand in the A-league becomes a moot point.
No Australian would call themselves Asian. Then again many countries in the Asian confederation wouldn’t call themselves Asian as well. Just like we wouldn’t call ourselfs oceanians. I never heard a single Australian call themselves oceanians either.
My point is that what confederation you are part of is pretty arbitrary
Israel a caucasion team was part of Asia. Uzbekistan a mostly caucasion team is part of Asian. They probably considered themselves eastern europeans more then anything else
So there’s already a pretty loose definition of what it means to be Asian. As long as we are around the asian geographic regions there’s no reason for us not to be asian judging by the loose AFC definition of Asia.
Hell, I doubt the west asian team consider themselves Asians. They consider themselves Arabs.
mattamkII said | November 15th 2009 @ 10:25pm | Report comment
Amazing effort..mostly A-League players…brilliant
westy said | November 15th 2009 @ 10:28pm | Report comment
You may be correct dan but Wynton Rufer was probably their best player and he was very proud of his mother’s Maori heritage.
Dan said | November 15th 2009 @ 10:36pm | Report comment
You know what I mean though. The name “All Whites” really didn’t seem to just refer to the colour of the jerseys when they lined up for the national anthem…
Jeff said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:23am | Report comment
Leo Bertos is not exactly white Dan
Darwin hammer said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:51am | Report comment
Best weekend of my life – fantastic atmosphere in the ground and the perfect result
Wellington did excellent job hosting – well done to the boys and well done NZFA for putting it on there and getting the pricing right
Can’t believe some of the comments on here though – there are some sad people out there
Robbos said | November 16th 2009 @ 5:57am | Report comment
I 110% agree with you Darwin. This is a great story in our region & there are sad people out there looking to put the sport down.
Steve said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:23am | Report comment
Exactly, I was there too and the memories will be with me for the rest of my life. I couldn’t care less whether people think we “deserve” to be going to SA or not.
Personally, I would love it if NZ was in a confederation with more going on. Bahrain at least have an Asian Cup qualifier on Wednesday to look forward to, and then most probably the Asian Cup itself in 2011. Oceania has nothing apart from the OFC Nations cup (presumably in 2012), which for NZ at least, is only important because it doubles as the first stage of 2014 World Cup qualifying.
Greg said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:52am | Report comment
The match was a cracker, sudden death between two evenly matched sides. Windy Wellington and the home crowd probably proved the difference. I also thought Bahrain lost their nerve after the penalty miss. On the issue of whether NZ deserve to be in the Finals, my view is you should look at it the other way, that is Bahrain do not deserve to be at the Finals because they could not get past NZ. I would like to know why NZ played at home last, was it a flip of the coin? That is a big advantage, although Bahrain were beated at home in their final play off game last time by T & T (if memory serves).
Gee, I thought Shane Smeltz was great, as was Leo Bertos. Funny how the NZ A-Leaguer’s can get the job done, but Australia’s cannot.
Brian said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Yes its a good point why do NZ HAL players get past Bahrain who might not really be 5th in Asia but are certainly ahead of Kuwait and way ahead of Indoneisa.
Fisher Price said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:59am | Report comment
I thought Smeltz was poor and that Herbert should have replaced him with a central midfielder at half time.
Robbos said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:19am | Report comment
‘Funny how the NZ A-Leaguer’s can get the job done, but Australia’s cannot’
Abit harsh there I think Greg. As Herbert said, he’s had these guys for 4 years (apart from the odd changes) & the effort of the guys over the 4 years has brought them this success, throw in a few O/S based players Fallon, Nelson & Killen & they have achieved greatness. Their prize at the end of day a world cup berth for most if not all the players.
With the Aussie A-leaguers, they were thrown in with a week’s preparation for a game that were on non FIFA dates knowing that most if not all would be replaced when the real show of the World cup or the Asian cup finals begins.
keeper11 said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Agree Darwin…
this result and the memorable occasion on the day was a sporting triumph for the code in NZ ..
and a plus for football in the region…
undoubtedly ..football ‘was the winner’….
and no..it doesn’t mean football will ovetake this or that code…doh
but..such is the pathetic anti-football mindset with many of the ‘our’ footy diehards .. borne out of fear ofcourse…
they and there media mates inevitably look for anything negative to spin in any good football stories ..
just to make themesleves feel better….
Chook said | November 16th 2009 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
Massive result for the Kiwis, well done lads. I will watch NZ football with interest, I wonder if they are looking to qualify through Asia as well, they certainly deserve a spot as Oceania is just about finish as a conference.
I really like Fallons attitude to the game as well,
‘We aren’t trying to take over the rugby … football is football and rugby is rugby and we’re not trying to take over. We just want a decent chance to be in the headlines,” he said.
“It’s been a dark cloud over New Zealand football for many years. That’s why I tried to escape New Zealand because it was just too full of rugby.
“I love rugby, don’t get me wrong. I love rugby, but sometimes they need to share the limelight and hopefully tonight we can get some of it.”
its a positive spin on the code wars that the A- League should maybe think about, league is league, AFL is AFL it is possible to like and support both St Kilda and the Melbourne Victory. Or Brisbane Broncos and the Brisbane Roar.
Timmo said | November 16th 2009 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
SPOT ON!
megatron said | November 16th 2009 @ 6:35pm | Report comment
Thanks for sharing that quote. Says a lot about the different sporting culture of NZ compared to Australia.
Kelly said | November 16th 2009 @ 7:51pm | Report comment
So let me get this straight, the AFC want the Nix out of the A-League because they are part of OFC. Ironically, it seems that the same people in the AFC who say that Its too easy for NZ to qualify for the WC within the OFC setup don’t appear to want NZ to join AFC. Maybe I’m missing something but it appears to me that the AFC want to have their cake and eat it too. What’s NZ & co supposed to do? Join UEFA? they are already doing what they are meant to – play. It basically means that the AFC thinks they are too weak to be in the WC. So why not let them in AFC? the answer is obvious. You can’t tell me that Austalia can join while NZ can’t. I understand that all this came about around 10 months ago. What made the AFC come out and say this? Meanwhile on the Wikipedia FIFA 2009 WC qualification page there’s a massive patch of red in the Asia region. Somebody lost the the script somewear.