Comments on: New Zealand All Whites lead the way for the minnows

By: Al

Al — Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:11:46 +0000

I don’t think they have any Englishmen in their cricket team to really warrant an “Australia vs England” rivalry.

By: AA

AA — Fri, 28 May 2010 05:40:09 +0000

Much politics to cover dasilva before anything happens with Oceania or its members. Australia joined Asia at the right time, we couldn’t have timed it any better.

By: AA

AA — Thu, 27 May 2010 10:34:40 +0000

“If this is how Australia feels then maybe they should shift all their sporting allegiances to Asia”

It’s already started Jeff: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/new-australian-chief-to-lead-revival-with-drive-into-asia-20100525-wb3j.html

TRACK and field in Australia is regaining its confidence as a new chief executive was appointed yesterday to continue recent strong results and help guide a planned soccer-style move into Asian competition.

By: AA

AA — Thu, 27 May 2010 10:32:30 +0000

“You can’t tell me that Austalia can join while NZ can’t.” oh but I can tell you that Kelly. AFC don’t want NZ in it, the Asian Confederation has the ‘full house’ sign up now that Australia is there. Imagine flying from Lebanon to New Zealand for a World Cup qualifier… the limits of the AFC are big enough as it is.

By: Kelly

Kelly — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 09:51:19 +0000

So let me get this straight, the AFC want the Nix out of the A-League because they are part of OFC. Ironically, it seems that the same people in the AFC who say that Its too easy for NZ to qualify for the WC within the OFC setup don’t appear to want NZ to join AFC. Maybe I’m missing something but it appears to me that the AFC want to have their cake and eat it too. What’s NZ & co supposed to do? Join UEFA? they are already doing what they are meant to – play. It basically means that the AFC thinks they are too weak to be in the WC. So why not let them in AFC? the answer is obvious. You can’t tell me that Austalia can join while NZ can’t. I understand that all this came about around 10 months ago. What made the AFC come out and say this? Meanwhile on the Wikipedia FIFA 2009 WC qualification page there’s a massive patch of red in the Asia region. Somebody lost the the script somewear.

By: megatron

megatron — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:35:11 +0000

Thanks for sharing that quote. Says a lot about the different sporting culture of NZ compared to Australia.

By: Timmo

Timmo — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:02:16 +0000

SPOT ON!

By: Timmo

Timmo — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 07:50:21 +0000

Possible, South Africa will be given the easiest possible group me thinks so I wonder how the pots will be allocated.

By: Chook

Chook — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 06:15:58 +0000

Massive result for the Kiwis, well done lads. I will watch NZ football with interest, I wonder if they are looking to qualify through Asia as well, they certainly deserve a spot as Oceania is just about finish as a conference.

I really like Fallons attitude to the game as well,

‘We aren’t trying to take over the rugby … football is football and rugby is rugby and we’re not trying to take over. We just want a decent chance to be in the headlines,” he said.

“It’s been a dark cloud over New Zealand football for many years. That’s why I tried to escape New Zealand because it was just too full of rugby.

“I love rugby, don’t get me wrong. I love rugby, but sometimes they need to share the limelight and hopefully tonight we can get some of it.”

its a positive spin on the code wars that the A- League should maybe think about, league is league, AFL is AFL it is possible to like and support both St Kilda and the Melbourne Victory. Or Brisbane Broncos and the Brisbane Roar.

By: dasilva

dasilva — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:42:34 +0000

Jeff
I support New Zealand to be part of Asia and to have regular qualification path. I also wish that the oceania region just get abandon and is merged with Asia so this issue about new zealand in the A-league becomes a moot point.

No Australian would call themselves Asian. Then again many countries in the Asian confederation wouldn’t call themselves Asian as well. Just like we wouldn’t call ourselfs oceanians. I never heard a single Australian call themselves oceanians either.

My point is that what confederation you are part of is pretty arbitrary

Israel a caucasion team was part of Asia. Uzbekistan a mostly caucasion team is part of Asian. They probably considered themselves eastern europeans more then anything else
So there’s already a pretty loose definition of what it means to be Asian. As long as we are around the asian geographic regions there’s no reason for us not to be asian judging by the loose AFC definition of Asia.

Hell, I doubt the west asian team consider themselves Asians. They consider themselves Arabs.

By: vladimir

vladimir — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:16:07 +0000

turn it up fisher price… bahrain were appalling in that regard and as is the case with a lot of other nations with supposedly higher skill levels there finishing and courage were sorely lacking… at least most of the south american nations can back up their flair with some clinical passing and finsihing and some steel… nz weren’t great, they reiles a lot on set pieces and long balls to their front three but they played some reasonable football as well, mostly stemming from bertos…

By: AndyRoo

AndyRoo — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:02:21 +0000

There are 3 or 4 discussion points in their mate.

I know NZ is a lot closer to the Pacific nations than us but I don’t see anything that makes Australia part of the pacific Islands so it’s not like we are giving up our heritage by jumping ship to the richer and more powerful confederation with more opportunities commercially and for competitive games. We are now complaining about only 20k coming to watch us trying to qualify for the Asian Cup….. we didn’t even have to play in qualifiers for the Oceanian nations cup.
It’s not some love of yum cha that has made us switch it is self interest.

Australia is always going to be seen as the Western Team in an Eastern Confederation. As the only white faces in Asia we are going to be painted as the bad guys plenty of times. But the extra games, pressure and not having things go our way will just toughen us up. We are not going to get the rub of the green in Asia, and it seems the team has got over “being the victim” and is just getting on with trying to perform well. There have been a few times where I question the move. It’s tough being the bad guy all the time and some of the AFC rules that we have to take on board for the A league don’t seem to be what’s best for our own competition (The AFC wants P&R and 33 rounds for example, not to mention dumping the Nix).

I think NZ would improve heaps if they played in Asia…..but there is a big tradeoff. With the money that comes from the Confed Cusp and World Club Comps they need to boost their youth development. They missed out on going to the U 20’s world cup and that is a huge tragedy. Even if somehow it does happen and the Nix have to leave the A league (I think they are safe) then absolutely NZ need to get a team in our NYL. That is probably more important than the survival of the Nix.

If the issue of world cup spots for Asia weren’t involved I think it’s only Japan, Iran and possibly Korea that would want us to stay in the AFC and only because we haven’t knocked them out of anything important.
The Koreans and Japanese seem to realise that having Australia does raise the standard and it gives them practise against a different type of opponent. I think those nations have moved beyond worrying about short term self interest and want to actually improve and do well once they make it to international competitions.

The impression I get from Iran and I am sure its not unanimous is they don’t mind someone upsetting the “Arabs” and we have taken their place as the bad guy.

The rest would probably boot us if not for the fact that we would likely take a full world cup qualifying spot with us. As soon as we don’t qualify for the world cup it will get interesting. If it happens for 2014 we could be booted, if it happens for 2018 we will likely be quite entrenched as having hosted some tournaments and being an asset to the ACL. It’s clear they didn’t let us in because they love Kangaroos.

It’s obvious that a lot of Asian countries were annoyed that we qualified and that we weren’t the push over they expected. They thought they were getting a near free half place and if they had of known we were as good as we were a lot of them would have voted differently. Teams like Thailand thought they were better than us. Having an unfair rep as a bunch of rugby players who cant play Football actually helped us for once!

Frankly the political power of Asian teams like Qatar and Bahrain is way above what it deserves to be and I don’t think the same trick (getting NZ into the AFC) would work twice though as after knocking out Bahrain it’s pretty obvious NZ would be a bananna skin for those mid level teams. They won’t let NZ in unless it means the half spot comes with it.

NZ has to realy want the switch too because it’s not all positive, you have to have your eyes open that is for sure.

By: Lazza

Lazza — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:35:27 +0000

There are 190 Football nations and most don’t have any trouble. I don’t see any violence in Japan or Korea yet Football should be driving them to violence as well. You make sweeping generalisations about Football yet you object when I do the same with Tennis.

By: Dan

Dan — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:56:37 +0000

Isolated outbreaks with clear ethnic overtones are different from a general pattern than covers all classes and ethnicities. What planet are you posting from?

By: Lazza

Lazza — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:47:41 +0000

What planet are you posting from Dan? Tennis is the sport that turns spectators into violent thugs – we see it every year at the Australian Open. I think it’s that little fluffy ball going backwards and forwards that just frustrates spectators and drives them to violence. A typical match lasts for hours as well so spectators have to find something else to keep themselves occupied.

By: Dan

Dan — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:12:18 +0000

Andy,
I see what you mean about the culture of violence that seems to have formed around the game in certain areas. You’re most certainly right that it’s almost as if gang lines have been drawn around a number of teams, but I always take the view that it’s too wide spread to simply be that. There has to be a first stone thrown and the question must be asked why these stones haven’t been thrown to such degrees in other sports. What is it about the Welsh and English working class teams, for example, that causes such chaos? Why do the northern working class Rugby League teams not bay for eachothers blood for instance?
I’d imagine there are a number of factors and it would make a fascinating thesis, but on a purely base emotional level I felt I understood how violence catalyses in the game after experiencing the atmosphere myself.
I’m honestly not trying to provoke here, I’m really just trying to get a broader sense of it myself by pitting my interpretation to people of the game.

By: Jeff

Jeff — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:12:03 +0000

There is no need to, the fact remains Australia is not an asian countrie and I see now that two Oceanaic teams have qualified at the expense of true Asian nations, there is calls from fans disgruntled ones at that for the expulsion of Australia from Asia.
Australia is not an Asian country never has been and never will be that is the point here!
I just find it absurd that people are complaining about New zealand going to the world cup and that Bahrain should have gone through (check fifa sites).

Question to you AndyRoo and Dasilva how much better do you think Asia would be if New Zealand was included, as is after 6 matches against lowly teams and two against the 5th best team in Asia they are set to grace the biggest stage in world soccer, Imagine how good and cohesive this team could be if they played together as often as Asian and European nations.
Asian countries know that New Zealand could be a serious threat and that is one of the biggest reasons why they do not wish to include them.

By: AndyRoo

AndyRoo — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:59:27 +0000

Dan you always sucker me into replying with your initial statement that seems like your trolling….then you reply later with a much better response.

I would comment on each country individually but in regards to Wales I would say there is a definite culture their around football but has nothing to do with the game. Regardless of the result Cardiff and Swansea play in the lower English leagues against teams largely supported by working class English and there is trouble.
Millwall vs Cardiff could be 5 all assuring both teams of promotion and the aspect of their teams that are involved in violent behaviour will still look to “punch on”

I don’t think there is any violence in the Welsh league (where all teams are Welsh) for instance.

By: keeper11

keeper11 — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:47:06 +0000

Agree Darwin…

this result and the memorable occasion on the day was a sporting triumph for the code in NZ ..
and a plus for football in the region…

undoubtedly ..football ‘was the winner’….
and no..it doesn’t mean football will ovetake this or that code…doh

but..such is the pathetic anti-football mindset with many of the ‘our’ footy diehards .. borne out of fear ofcourse…

they and there media mates inevitably look for anything negative to spin in any good football stories ..
just to make themesleves feel better….

By: Dan

Dan — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:45:43 +0000

I believe once upon a time that was the case, but that has long been a distant memory. Generally speaking though, the most working class areas of Auckland all play Rugby League – that is why the Kiwi rep side is almost completely polynesian. If you marched them out along side the All Whites they would almost be mirror images of eachother.

By: Brian

Brian — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:27:41 +0000

Yes its a good point why do NZ HAL players get past Bahrain who might not really be 5th in Asia but are certainly ahead of Kuwait and way ahead of Indoneisa.

By: Dan

Dan — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:24:53 +0000

Just trying to connect the dots Andy.
There of course is a lot of soccer played where no violence occurs, but the fact that fans must be segregated in stadiums in many of the world’s major leagues is something rather peculiar to the sport of soccer. I jumped on the bandwagon during the last world cup and got my first real taste of the game. During that time I felt that soccer presented a real double edged sword to a supporter; being brilliantly (almost cathartically so) gratifying when your team managed to brake the deadlock with a score, but also painfully frustrating when held to nil. The lack of physical contact and the penalties that often result in what seems innocuous contact heightens this. I also found that soccer manages to create far greater outrage due to the sense of absolute injustice that results from seeing your team lose 1-0 due to simple bad refereeing… Bad decisions mar all sports, but in soccer the referee is far more conspicuous and often has a much greater impact on matches than even in Rugby Union.
These factors seem to me to foster a heightened sense of tension and frustration that are more likely to boil over than in contact sports with more varied methods of scoring. If you feel this is a result of “prejudice”, then by all means present me with your own hypothesis as to why violence, while not occurring at each match, is more pronounced among the soccer fans than all other major contact sports combined. Just look at the distinction between soccer and Rugby in Wales. Rugby is an essentially working class game in Wales, yet fans of respective teams intermingle at stadiums without much issue. In soccer in the other hand, police forces of a significant magnitude are often required to keep the peace.
You may think I’m just slagging the game, but I honestly could never come to grips with why there seemed to be such a necessity in segregating and legislating against the outbreak of violence (think Thatcher in the ’80s) until I actually watched it.

By: Steve

Steve — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:23:45 +0000

Exactly, I was there too and the memories will be with me for the rest of my life. I couldn’t care less whether people think we “deserve” to be going to SA or not.

Personally, I would love it if NZ was in a confederation with more going on. Bahrain at least have an Asian Cup qualifier on Wednesday to look forward to, and then most probably the Asian Cup itself in 2011. Oceania has nothing apart from the OFC Nations cup (presumably in 2012), which for NZ at least, is only important because it doubles as the first stage of 2014 World Cup qualifying.

By: Robbos

Robbos — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:19:05 +0000

‘Funny how the NZ A-Leaguer’s can get the job done, but Australia’s cannot’

Abit harsh there I think Greg. As Herbert said, he’s had these guys for 4 years (apart from the odd changes) & the effort of the guys over the 4 years has brought them this success, throw in a few O/S based players Fallon, Nelson & Killen & they have achieved greatness. Their prize at the end of day a world cup berth for most if not all the players.

With the Aussie A-leaguers, they were thrown in with a week’s preparation for a game that were on non FIFA dates knowing that most if not all would be replaced when the real show of the World cup or the Asian cup finals begins.

By: AndyRoo

AndyRoo — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:34:44 +0000

Jeff, Australians would say theya re Australian….but I don’t think Fifa are going to give us our own continent.

Did you ask if they consider themselves Oceanian…I bet the answer to that is no too.

By: AndyRoo

AndyRoo — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:07:00 +0000

Since that Kiwi actually went off and had to be subbed I don’t think he was acting.

By: AndyRoo

AndyRoo — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:00:21 +0000

NZ played at the confed cup in South Africa agianst South Africa….no drama.

They didn’t get the same level of respect though because the ALl whites are Mioonws and not the favorites but there were no issues.

By: Fisher Price

Fisher Price — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:59:23 +0000

I thought Smeltz was poor and that Herbert should have replaced him with a central midfielder at half time.

By: AndyRoo

AndyRoo — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:55:52 +0000

Are you serious Dan…there are thousands of Soccer games played every week with no crowd violence.

You think the Bulldogs fans only misbehaved because Sonny Bill was boring to watch……

Mate if you don’t like football fair enough but keep your prejudices in the Rugby league tab aye.

By: Fisher Price

Fisher Price — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:53:33 +0000

So once you saw the NZ play acting did you show consistency and switch your allegiance back to Bahrain?