AFL in West Sydney – the best thing to happen to Rugby League since the split
Roar Guru
By M1tch, 16 Nov 2009 M1tch is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- independent commission, Michael Searle, NRL, Phil Gould, Rugby League
Much like what Phil Gould has said in his Herald piece and then on the Wide World of Sports TV show on Sunday, the launch of an AFL team in Sydney’s west is the best opportunity for rugby league in every sense of the word.
It’s no coincidence that since the AFL’s singing of Hunt and the announcements of the Greater West Sydney AFL side, it finally has people moving and talking about the independent commission.
The push from Michael Searle, which we hear has been happening for 18 months, most likely wouldn’t have been talked about until late 2010 or early 2011, when the early negotiating will start with broadcasters.
For far too long, the administration of Rugby League has been selfish and narrow minded.
The different bodies of NSW, QLD, city and country have held the game back, with everyone only caring about their ‘backyard’.
Even now, Ross Livermore is said to be against the idea of the commission, because he doesn’t want to give up his power with State of Origin.
I truly hope with this independent commission, that nobody on the NRL, NSW, QLD boards survive, except perhaps David Gallop. However, it will be interesting to hear what he says about the future of the game in the fans forum.
I’m honestly scared to hear Colin Love is the man that seems to be in line for the Commissioner job, as simply nothing would change.
People in the NRL keep saying ‘yeah we have the best product,’ but what happens come TV rights time? They settle for the first offer from Channel 9, who have screwed the game for 15 years.
News Ltd have their own agendas, through ownership and reporting on the game and individuals.
But the shining light for the game is the Commission who, like the AFL, are in it for the love of the game.
With expansion (which we in have many areas), media rights (which we have plenty to bargain with) and junior development with academies and scholarship programs for non-heartland states, the game could grow and become what it always should have been.
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LT80 said | November 16th 2009 @ 6:58am | Report comment
What makes you so sure that the people who end up running the new body will be motivated purely by an altruistic love of the game?
I agree that rugby league needs News out of the ownership of the NRL, and some kind of commission would be great. But why does it follow that this commision which is going to run the elite level club competition, should also be responsible for representative games, lower level semi-professional leagues and so on?
Why does the QRL need to give up their position as administrators of parts of the game in Queensland? Does any other sport have a single body responsible for every part of the game like this? The AFL has the state leagues still.
Soccer in England has the Premier League, FA, and Football League.
Is it possible that concentration of all this power into a single body, could be a dangerous thing for the sport?
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:21am | Report comment
We need the right people in charge. The commission is the first step, thats why we have to basically start from scratch.
Whatever happens we need a new model, we simply cant have the QRL and NSWRL fighting over every matter.
LT80 said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:13am | Report comment
MItchell. Can you please explain to me why the new body which will own the elite club comp, also needs to own and administer the representative games (SOO and international) and the lower semi-professional and junior leagues?
You should not be so quick to believe everything G Gould writes in the newspaper. Who is to say he and others don’t have their own agenda to push?
Exactly how has the QRL for example held back the game?
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Ross Livermore isnt liking the idea because he wont have control.
Is he in it for Origin or his own power?
Can have the nswrl and qrl for the 2nd tier comps but the heads would also be on nrl board.
James said | November 16th 2009 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
Gould is a peanut. He writes “Well, my first reaction is the NRL should say nothing.”
“We should ignore the AFL and refrain from responding publicly to anything it says or does. This only gives it
free publicity, which is exactly what it’s looking for.”
Aaah..excuse me…i dont think I heard one peep out of David Gallop! Or the ARU, or the FFA….apart from one
comment from Ben Buckley and the Rovers boss welcoming the move…and thats it.
Its muppet ex-players like Gould and the Sydney journalists who have created all the publicity for the AFL. By
writing the article, Gould is giving the AFL more publicity! Is this guy a brick or what?!
Also, NRL is not the AFL…they have an international program to run too. An independent commission works
well if you are a domestic code like the AFL and the NFL. An independent NRL commission is not going to be
the answer to all your prayers.
Mr cheese said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:15am | Report comment
An interesting point, young man.
Plenty of people in England ( plenty of the plutocrats, c’est a dire ) want our football system to change.
Essentially, the Premier League runs the show. If the Premier League tell us that Christmas is being put back to February, then we will all be exchanging presents on Valentine’s Day.
It’s only a matter of time before that becomes official. There is no separation of powers, I am afraid. Don’t believe the truth….
Mushi said | November 16th 2009 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
Agree LT80 – it is utterly mind blowing that based on almost zero information that we can unequivocally say the commission will cure all that ails the NRL. We must be clairvoyant.
It’s like an old episode of yes minister or hollow men where they just put together a committee and the everyone is happy
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
I didnt say it would cure everything, but it would give the game its best chance.
Mushi said | November 16th 2009 @ 3:27pm | Report comment
Why?
At the moment the commission is nothing more than a vague concept. You don’t know how it works or who is going to be on it and yet it is the best chance?
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
its better than being owned by the media..
Mushi said | November 16th 2009 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
Once again you have nothing to suggest it will be. Agenda’s will simply be replaced by other agenda’s.
I’d rather a transparent professional agenda than a new opaque council of muppet power brokers.
That said I’m not against a commission I just think we should actually see who is on it and what powers it has (ie actually know something about it) before we declare it a better option. At the moment you could be buying a cart load of crap sight unseen
danwighton said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:25am | Report comment
The point is that, from similar experiences in the NFL and the AFL, putting aside the warring factions and having one independent board has been the step forward. Yes, Mushi, there is definitely the danger that it would be stacked out, but avoiding that is part of the process – the model favoured is based largely on the NFL model, which has succeeded at avoiding the dominance of factions.
I think there is a danger in saying “independent commission = no problems, no factions and biggest code in Aus” but, looking at the previous examples, it surely is a better approach than the current one.
Mick from Giralang said | November 16th 2009 @ 7:02am | Report comment
Getting News Limited’s claws out of ownership of the game will be the biggest boost to the code, to be followed up with an independent commission or similar structure. I’d even be happy to have Colin Love in the job if it hastened the depature of News. The game should quickly re-establish in Perth, with possibly Bears re-merging on the central coast or another Queensland team.
Once the Storm is at home in its new ground in Melbourne and crowds go up to about 20,000, it will be time to start thinking about a second team in Bleak City….perhaps in the western suburbs?
Bay35Pablo said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Mick, no 2nd team in Brisbane and you want to put a 2nd team in Melbourne? What medication are you on … ?
James said | November 16th 2009 @ 4:06pm | Report comment
Yeah thats a top idea. New Super 15 team coming to Melbourne. Once you move out of you Olympic Park haven, where you pay 2 cents a week rent, you better hope your crowds go up at the new stadium. And once News pull out the 5 mil a year funding, you are really stuffed. Second team in Melbourne? You are not Oikee in disguise are you?
Mick from Giralang said | November 16th 2009 @ 4:13pm | Report comment
Once News Limited pull out of league we’ll also get to stop paying them $9 million a year.
In my view, the difference should go to establishing a second team in Melbourne, sooner rather than later.
And I am in favour of another team in Queensland as indicated in my post…yes Brisbane would do just fine.
And as for the new Super 15 team in Melbourne…that will spread the rugby love for both codes, adding more impetus for a second Bleak City team.
Am I oikee in disguise? Well has anyone ever seen us in the same room together?
James said | November 16th 2009 @ 4:36pm | Report comment
If you honestly think that the Storm’s crowds are going to shoot up by them having to walk 20 metres down the
road to a new stadium, then you are kidding yourself. (Mind you, the same goes for melbourne Victory…especially
when the new Heart team comes in.
Lets wait and see how the Storm goes and how the Super 15 team goes
before you even begin contemplating a second team.
Mick from Giralang said | November 17th 2009 @ 5:10am | Report comment
Goes to show the wisdom of the Victorian government in establishing the new rectangular stadium…they now have an extra soccer team, a union team and possibly a second league team down the track ( I concede a few more planets have to aligh before this becomes a reality but I firmly believe it will become a reality.). I don’t know what the original cost-benefit analysis of the new stadium showed, but I bet it’s firmly in the black by now.
If the WA goverment builds a similar facility, they will reap similar benefits.
danwighton said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:28am | Report comment
A good stadium makes heaps of difference – heaps. Olympic park was built as a practice track for the 56 olympics – and is a poor stadium to watch league from. Something down the lines of Skilled park or suncorp will make a big difference.
Paul J said | November 16th 2009 @ 7:24am | Report comment
We need an independent commission to run the NRL, the SOO, and the Kangaroos – ASAP.
They can also do a lot to improve the marketing and consistency of RL at an international level. They can invest a lot of money growing the game in NZ and the pacific as well as across Australia.
The NSWRL can still administer the NSW Cup and the QRL the Qld Cup but they would be working for an independent commission who would have the final say on all decisions.
The NFL and AFL have shown all codes how to run a sport. If it’s taken the AFL going to Western Sydney to get RL administrators to finally wake up then that’s great. Better late than never.
Karlos said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:22am | Report comment
I am sure a commission will be much better. I found it interesting that Sheedy said that not all people have the courage to play Rugby League and that is something everyone needs to take into account. Rugby League is the best and hardest game and there needs to be a backup game for those who cant handle the real thing. Not sure if it is the image he wants for the game; ÄFL The Game for Cowards” but at least he was being honest.
Redb said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:25am | Report comment
Sheedy never said that. You would not have a clue about the courage needed to play AFL football, a 360 degree game of contested ball.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
he did, say some might not have the body or courage..
Michael C said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:58am | Report comment
THe Sheedy comments :
“We’re not here to go around annoying rugby league,” Sheedy said on Monday.
“We’re here to give kids an opportunity that may not want to play rugby (league).”
“There is a style of athlete that is conducive for AFL and a style of athlete that has to have the courage and toughness to play rugby league.”
The irony is – the courage/toughness required in Rugby League is very much vs that opposing defensive line in front of the player……and, in a sense, a greater and/or different courage/toughness is required in AFL. It makes me look at Sheedy’s comment and scratch my head a fraction.
ON the body type fair enough – - but, bringing the ‘toughness/courage’ into it, that seems odd??? So, while Karlos stating “Game for Cowards” is a bit harsh…….I must admint I do wonder a tad.
AndyRoo said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:38am | Report comment
AFL is a contact game but Rugby League is fierce and brutal.
You may know it’s coming but that doesn’t help you any
Also the AFL have branded their game as a “safer” game to play in NSW that’s their push towards mums. The game is moving further away from dangerous play, that is not a bad thing but it does mean you cede that point of macho difference to Rugby League.
Wouldn’t all those mums that are so worried about little Jimmy be better of putting him in tennis or golf instead of AFL or Football. He might be allright in AFL/Football until he is 12 but after that he is going to get hurt and there’s nothing control freak parents can do about it. At least with tennis there is a chance for him to meet girls and there is big money in those non contact games.
Redb said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:01am | Report comment
AndyRoo,
So you agree the game for cowards is over the top and ignorant. None of the football codes are for cowards.
I’m sick of ‘golf’ please dont mention that four letter word.
Redb
AndyRoo said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:20am | Report comment
There are two guys that play for my local AFL team that are built like league second Rowers, any mum who thinks AFL is safe for little Jimmy should check out the tats on those blokes, would scare the life out of her.
Good blokes though and would be good for a young bloke from a single parent family to hang around with them for important “life lessons”.
I say it’s less fierce than Rugby League…. but then good luck finding many sports that aren’t. It’s still tough and not for cowards (They should play it in Nintendo instead).
bever fever said | November 16th 2009 @ 5:40pm | Report comment
M from G, that was actually Adrian Barich who played for the Reds and Adrian is actually from Canberra from marist college and had played plenty of rugby in his time, not sure if he previously played league but was no doubt familiar with the game.
Barich does plenty of TV sports reporting and radio sports on 6PR which is the talk back sports program.
No doubt because of playing for the Eagles the league boys wanted to touch him up a bit, but yer i think he was at the time not feeling very comfortable.
Redb said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:54am | Report comment
As an Essendon fan who had Sheedy as our coach for 27 years (most of my adult life) it is entirely likely that he said that to placate the paranoia.
Mick from Giralang said | November 16th 2009 @ 4:18pm | Report comment
Can’t remember who it was exactly but some AFL star (Kable? Cable?) played second grade for the Perth Reds. He said it was the toughest game he had ever played.
Michael C said | November 16th 2009 @ 5:00pm | Report comment
Adrian Barich…..who was well into his 30s at the time and was an only so so AFL player who happened to play for NSW in a mighty win over a Victoria ‘B’ team in the mud and slush at the SCG back in 1989 or 1990.
At any rate……is it good to be the ‘roughest’ tough game?? Is it good to be the game with the most finesse?? Is it good to be a game with a fair degree of both??
Bay35Pablo said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Good point Mitch. Hopefully the NRl doing it will cause the ARU to look at something similar, which could cause rugby to finally get rid of the bozos in charge.
Michael C said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:32am | Report comment
A few of us have been telling you guys for some time…..that a little competition actually benefits everyone.
A. it stings the NRL out of their slumber…..they are no longer able to just keep rolling along and taking people/regions for granted as ‘closed shop’ sporting ghettos.
and
B. locally in West Sydney – it invites greater investment (NOT just of dollars – but, time, energy, confidence) in local communities and broader regions.
IF out of this supposed ‘war’ with the AFL…….as over the top as that rhetoric is – - – but, if certain forces around the NRL are able to use this to force through certain structural changes that wouldn’t happen otherwise. Then great!!
Matt S said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:58am | Report comment
The playing figures the SMH gave for AFL in Western Sydney may need to be scrutinized as this was revealed by the Lions in Brisbane:
http://www.lions.com.au/portals/0/li…s/m091113.html
quote:
We’ve only converted 642 junior members from a total of 29,260 Auskick participants in 2009.
Lions matches consistently finished 5th or 6th in Queensland’s TV ratings behind the NRL Footy Show, the NRL Sunday Roast Show and the Broncos, Titans and Cowboys matches this year.
End Quote.
I doubt the swans would have over 20,000 juniors etc playing regular AFL in Western Sydney. The real figure may only be a couple of thousand at best. I wish they’s stop counting Auskick figures as this is very misleading.
Redb said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:31am | Report comment
What like the 34,000 supposedly playing rugby league in Melbourne? which is complete and utter rubbish.
The NRL and many of its fans suffer from severe fear and envy of the AFL on a national level. Articles, comments, the Sydney media, and commentary from Gould,etc proves the NRL is chasing what the AFL have.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Yes, chasing a national game, chasing a good administration
no shocks there
Michael C said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:25am | Report comment
You DO realise what that 642 from 29,260 is all about don’t you??
It’s about them being Brisbane LIons Junior members. WHat we don’t know is how many of those kids would list of AFL clubs as ‘their club’ or even be Gold Coasters in waiting,
it’s not as if it’s a rate of graduation to junior playing ranks or anything like that.
and Auskick numbers are counted because so too are little tacker modified rules Rugby and soccer programmes. Why should the AFL NOT show Auskick numbers?? The statistical rule of thumb here is that it’s got to be a program of at least 6 weeks duration. That can include organised school sports representation as well.
actually, RL – came to my kids school for a single day session I think it was…..so, I reckon they’re the ones being liberal with their accounting.
As the VRL states “There were 34,119 participants involved in School based Rugby League which is an increase on the 2008 results.”
ANd I’m really wondering about that.
The Link said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:43am | Report comment
There is no war against the AFL in Sydney.
Sydneysiders actually quite like AFL.
I don’t know what’s worse at the moment, News Limited beat ups or those that take the bait and extrapolate that to some broader views held by ‘fans’.
Andrew said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:02pm | Report comment
Yeah those TV ratings are through the roof each week .Leaving poor old SBS no choice on Saturday night but to put old eps of the Iron Chef against it.
AndyRoo said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:16am | Report comment
I think the way Colin Love (ARL) and the QRL have behaved shows it’s not news limited holding the game back (they seem ok with pulling out) so much as the power hungry cronies.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:18am | Report comment
News held the game back with media rights..
Remember there are so many agenda’s with arl and news ltd
Matt S said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:53am | Report comment
The articles on 34,000 playing rugby league clearly state that these are numbers who have been exposed to rugby league coaching clinics. In no terms do they falsly state, unlike the AFL, that these are full-time playing kids in competitions.
So RedB go back to the drawing board and please tell me why the AFL needs to be so misleading in terms of playing figures. The ARL in its development clearly states what they deem as registered players (i.e a competition that oges for miinimum of 6 weeks I think), something the AFL is not willing to do!
Michael C said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:37am | Report comment
Matt S –
do you understand what Auskick is??
all codes – as you say – count their modified introductory junior programmes that run over 6 weeks plus duration. Most of these are specifically designed as a better and safer means of introducing kids to core skills etc of given sports in a fun atmosphere and involving parents.
Auskick usually runs around May to August. Here and there school based Auskick may only run for a single term/semester……but, even that will be meeting that 6 week criteria comfortably.
The AFL can’t count one off ‘clinics’.
Not in this context – - -what makes you claim that this is something the AFL is not willing to do????
In some respects OVERSEAS, people trying to grow the game will speak, similar to the VRL – about having ‘exposed’ X ’000s to the game…….in the obvious hope of in future getting back into those schools with an expanded program or luring kids off to external programs.
Redb said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:49am | Report comment
remember Matt S, the NRL/ARLwants what the AFL has.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:54am | Report comment
actually, AFL wants what NRL has…nsw and qld
Redb said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:57am | Report comment
no that is just your take on the AFL’s intentions, the AFL wants to further grow the game on a national level including NSW and QLD.
We’ll leave the dominatiion talk to the xenophobes.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:00am | Report comment
lol chill out, notice the winking face to indicate a joke
Redb said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:04am | Report comment
maybe you should spread the word.
Michael C said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
further below in response to Matt S I provided some numbers that were presented at the senate inquiry into
AFL and Tasmania.
Clearly there, you can see WHY QLD and NSW/ACT ARE ALREADY important to the AFL…….relative to Tassie at any rate.
This whole ‘expansion’ talk fails most the time to recognise the NEED for some consolidation and support of existing ‘troops on the ground’. Part of that, is to install a 2nd team within each state.
The AFL effectively can’t afford not to – - otherwise, it risks losing what it has. Let alone gaining anything more. Almost entirely irrespective of the NRL.
And in reality……if the NRL and NSW people think West Sydney is adequately service with 4 teams that average (in a good year) around 16,000 each for 2 million or so residents…..they’re selling themselves short.
AndyRoo said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:55am | Report comment
I think the NRL (and Football participation figures) coulld be exposed big time by this new AFL team. There is too much protesting and not enough hard yakka. Parra have been doing a good job but they don’t cover all of the 2 million people in West Sydney, there are big chunks of West Sydney not covered by an NRL team.
It’s probably going to have to take this new AFL team to show the NRL how it’s done and get bums on seats.
macavity said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:48am | Report comment
interesting that this “coverage” argument doesnt get run in Melb, where all the teams are within shooting distance of each other and play at 2 grounds next to the CBD……