By ScottWoodward.me -
November 16th 2009 @ 6:00am
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Kangaroos: cream rises to the top with six unanswered tries
England may arguably have superior forwards to Australia, but the amazing Kangaroos green and gold back line proved unstoppable in the final of the Gillette Four Nations Final, separating the two teams by a deceptive 30 points by the final whistle.
England trailed by only two points with 26 minutes to go and six points with 13 minutes left before Australia displayed too much skill and fitness to eventually score six unanswered tries, posting a final score line of 46 points to 16.
So what do we take from this?
Australia will likely lose their captain and champion playmaker Darren Lockyer, as well as their biggest and best prop forward Petero Civoniceva.
England have proven during the Four Nations, by beating New Zealand and only being two points behind Australia in the Final with 26 minutes left to play, that they are not that far off the pace.
Coach Tony Smith has more work to do on his spine as 20 year old Sam Tomkins has a long way to go if he is to hold down the crucial number 7 guernsey.
Fullback Shaun Briscoe also never looked dangerous and is several classes away from Billy Slater. This is Australia’s strength with Cam Smith at hooker, Thurston at 7, Lockyer at 6 and Slater at 1. The Kiwis, like England, also struggle with a 6, 7 and 1.
For the first 50 minutes yesterday morning international Rugby League was alive and well, and while the three major countries are much closer than previous years, when it really mattered the cream rose to the top.
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(59)
Mick from Giralang said | November 16th 2009 @ 6:56am | Report comment
It was a classic Test match for 3/4 of the game. England need to send out a search party to find that elusive final 15 minutes of commitment. It’s been missing for 30 years.
Paul J said | November 16th 2009 @ 7:13am | Report comment
England are like the Kiwi’s from 15 years ago, they run out of puff towards the end. They need more players in the NRL so they can last 80 mins at an NRL level just as the Kiwi’s do now.
Peter T said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:49am | Report comment
I agree. Get some of there better players into the NRL. Perhaps we should also share our strategies. How else can the game grow internationaly? A 30 point thrashing is surely not good for the international game. I for one am not celebrating today!
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:50am | Report comment
The tries we scored, some were unstoppable, up until the 59th min England were great. It does come down to how the SL is played and the intensity isnt there for 80 mins.
They went with a young squad and are building, lets see how they go in 2010.
King of the Gorganites said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:45am | Report comment
top effort from the roos. played all over them in the 2nd half.
does anyone know the crowd? i was a bit surprised it wasnt a sell out.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:47am | Report comment
just over 31 000..yeh disappointed at the crowd, perhaps backlash with no mcGuire?
King of the Gorganites said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
i think your right about mcguire
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
seems i was wrong lol..upper section closed off
big Kev said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
they closed it off for no other reason that to reduce expenses because sales were low
Matt S said | November 16th 2009 @ 8:52am | Report comment
Actually it was a sell-out for for some reason they play at Elland Rd which they must get on the cheap as one stand is closed and the local police insist on parts of the fence line terracing be clear. They must still have that soccer mentality in regard to crowds.
On the game, wow what aperformance but some key decisions went against England. Inglis’s try was not controlled, Lewis’s hand on the back (should have been an English penalty), a forward pass (led to Slater’s dummy half try) were killers for England. But first 60 minutes was an excellent game full of drama, tries and passion.
Kongoftg, if you’re hear for your elitist smarmy comments, then don’t botther. Go away and think why a crowd would boo a winning English team, or that 1 league game produced more tries than the entire round of union internationals?
King of the Gorganites said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:58am | Report comment
could they have opened the other stand?
im hear to talk about the game. why assume im hear for ’swarmy’ comments. grow up.
dont think that lots of tries make a great game though. games can be just as entertaining with low scores (im thinking the bulldogs of the 80s).
Woody Warambel said | November 16th 2009 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
The top stand was closed for safety purposes. Apparenly a ‘Safety Certificate’ was withheld because of some structural deficiencies.
http://www.totalrl.com/index.php?showtopic=193182
From the RFL press office…
Fans flock to Elland Road for Gillette Four Nations climax
The RFL is advising fans who have not purchased a ticket for the Gillette Four Nations Final between England and Australia not to travel to Elland Road on Saturday.
The saleable capacity for the eagerly-anticipated clash was reached on Friday afternoon following unprecedented levels of demand earlier in the week.
Due to the unavailability of the East Stand upper tier, the saleable capacity at Elland Road on Saturday is 31,000 which is expected to create an electrifying atmosphere for the match between two of sport’s greatest rivals.
Fans who have ordered tickets for collection can collect their tickets from the ticket office at Elland Road from 9.00am on Saturday.
With more than 5,000 tickets awaiting collection, the RFL is urging fans to collect their tickets early in the day and return to the stadium prior to kick-off to avoid congestion at the turnstiles.
-ends-
dave said | November 16th 2009 @ 9:27am | Report comment
it seems to me that England fall away because they don’t ever have the right polish in their key positions, like Australia does. Its ok to send there great forwards to the NRL like Ellis, Morley, Burgess, but when was the last time they had a great playmaker here, maybe Ellery Hanley in the 1980s?? Key positions need to be playing pressure footy week in week out, not one tough game a month like the Super League. As long as the English remain deluded about the quality of their competition and the abilty of their halves to perfom under pressure, can’t see much changing for a long time. There young up and comers need to forget the easy life and the easy money, take a pay cut, come to the NRL, serve a real football apprenticeship and learn about tough regular footy, then they might be able to perform for there country when the heat is on.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 10:52am | Report comment
Tomkins, Eastmond and Myler are all on long term deals, so unless they are loaned out, I doubt we will see them here.
Richie Mathers was the last backline player out here, but he went home, one or 2 backs need to come out and experience NRL.
Matt S said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:07am | Report comment
oh, I forgot Scotland. 21,000 in a 67,000 stadium for a game against the ‘flambouyant’ (yeah right) Fijians. The Scots seem to be no longer blantantly following the union line and the game must lift itself in terms of entertainment like any other sport. I hope this spreads to the rest of the UK!
King of the Gorganites said | November 16th 2009 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
i thought we were hear to talk RL. why the swarmy comments?
that crowd in scotland is larger then any 4nations game, except the final. need i mention the crowds for the rest of the weekend………
ScottWoodward.me said | November 16th 2009 @ 11:24am | Report comment
England’s biggest problem is that Sinfield is their only real organiser, unlike Australia who have Cam Smith, Thurston and Lockyer.
I hold out great hope for 20 yo Eastmond who looks to have untapped reserves of talent who reads play well and has a beautiful left and right pass, but Tomkins and Myler to date anyway are more individualists and appear to struggle at Test level.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
Myler is more individual at the moment because he played at Salford, his move to Warrington will be great for him but also England.
Working Class Rugger said | November 16th 2009 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
Young Eastmond is the goods. So there’s hope for English RL yet. McGuire on the other hand.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
end of the line for Danny Id say, I think they’ll stick with Eastmond, Tomkins and Myler now
Matt S said | November 16th 2009 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Ok, I’ll apolgise for that.
Matt S said | November 16th 2009 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
i think England have the making of a good side. They just have to overcome this lapse in their game like letting Slater score from so close or not following the ball until it is well & truly dead. These are the things that make the difference.
If I were England, nothing is safe until that wistle blows and the ball is kicked out into the crowd.
Matt S said | November 16th 2009 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
According to reports, a safety certificate was not signed off by the owners of Elland Rd, thus no stand available. Ever since Leeds FC got into financial strife, Elland Rd’s upkeep has not been a priority. I hope the RFL never use it again. But I suspect they get a good deal and beggars can’t be choosers. The priority it seems for the RFL/RLIF etc for international league is to not make losses and try to turn a profit. Not the best situation to be in but this is our lot at the moment and by reports they will turn a decent profit.
I hope in the next few years we can return to the likes of Man U, Man City grounds for major games but I’m afraid England need to win a tournament for that to happen. Anyone watching that game could see on the faces of supporters their desperate need for success and the atmosphere for 60 minutes was fantastic and bodes well for the future if they can turn things around.
I hope it starts with next year’s 4 nations but that’s a hard ask.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
in 2004 they play at Man Cities ground and got 38k…as you say hopefully games can go back there
2010 4 nations looks like a good start with a proposed double header of eng v png and nz v aus at eden park – but it just screws us with then 2 games and one against PNG which I doubt will draw high in syd or melb
Jay said | November 16th 2009 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
I hope the 4 Nations in the souther hemisphere are used to promote the game.
Take the PNG games to Adeliade or Perth. Let Melbourne have the Aus v NZ, Aus v England matches (instead of state of origin) and let the final be played in Brisbane. No point in taking the game to Sydney unless you can get 40,000 at the SFS.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
I seriously doubt, unless they incorporate the pacific cup as well.
I agree about the aus v nz game, would sell out the new stadium in melb, Brisbane gets the final.
Perth would have a England v NZ, should get good numbers at MES.
Jay said | November 16th 2009 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
Im a league man, but the 4 nations has been a bore for me.. The first game between Aus and NZ was good, but since then its been pretty ordinary. RU on the other hand.. wow – the France v SA and Ireland v Australia Test Matches were Quality! Italy got 80,000 to their match against the all blacks… RU Tests are light years ahead of RL and to be honest, from a international contact sporting perspective – nothing compares to an RU test match between the top 8 nations.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
Yeh Rugby is way ahead..
But a little harsh, the final was quality and the eng vs nz game was good.
France struggled so those games werent as good
You can get some good rugby international matches, but the bludger games are painful to watch..
The All Blacks selling power is now up there with the big Soccer teams.
Jay said | November 16th 2009 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
I was really impressed by the France v South Africa match.. 6th ranked nation in the world upsetting the world champions. Would never happen in RL.
Who cares if there arn’t as many tries scored (perhaps the defence is better?) – highly entertaining, and something rugby league should aspire to become.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
Defence is better because they dont throw the ball around..Penalties reward lackluster games.
Anywho..the lesser nations like PNG, Samoa and Tonga now are getting better, sadly its taken 100 years for the pac islands to get a proper comp and play a high level of rugby league.
France suffer due to only having 1 SL team..its like the Wellington Pheonix playing Brazil.
Jay said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
If international RL is to grow – Australia has to let the Islander kids play state of origin and for their own nationa (not being Australia). A second team in NZ needs to be introduced (and a second team in France in the super league). G
Get quotas for foreign players in these superleague teams and continue with the notion of a european and pacific islander cup. There has been some headway all ready, but more needs to be done before the gap can be closed.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
Agree about the islanders players, ColIn Love and his announcement last week was pathetic. If they play junior footy here but want to play for their home nation then its a win/win/.
I’ve always wanted to see each UK Super League team have 2 french players on their squads and NRL sides have UK/European players.
Nick S said | November 16th 2009 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
Why is it that the Challenge Cup final can be played at Wembley and be a sell out but England in the final of the Four Nations can’t attract the same crowds? Are the England really that negative about there national team?
So if Lockyer is gone, who fills the gap next year?
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
England havent played a test in Wembley..well tbh I dont know when.
The final was a ’sell out’ with the available seating
as for 5/8..Prince, Cronk probably be top
ScottWoodward.me said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
If Lockyer is unavailable for Q’Land I would expect that Thurston would play 6 and Scott prince will play 7.
Aust is different and if they didn’t want to risk Thurston at 6, my roughie is Todd Carney.
Matt S said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
When England start winning tournaments then you’ll find them selling out bigger stadiums. A decade or more ago they got 50,000 at old trafford, 70,000 at Wembley. English league fans aren’t an indocrinated lot. The game has to work its backside off to sell itself, and I’m afraid sucess is the key ingrediant
Jay said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
English sporting fans are amongst the best in the world. Last year when Burnley (a village of 60,000 people) qualified for promotion to the EPL – approximatley half the villiage travelled to their game.
Leeds United, West Ham and Newcastle United still sell out games even through they have been relugated… Even in the third their league teams in the Carling Cup has such passionate supporters.
At last years world cup – there was a huge English contingent (even in the final). Look at every ashes tour in the cricket with the barmy army – who still turned up, despite not having won the urn in more than 20 years. It is a HUGE mistake to make an assertion that the English only support a team when they are winning.
I think the capacity issue at the sadium has been mentioned.. Its not the enthuasism that the English lack.
sledgeandhammer said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
Guys, as a rugby man the big crowds over the weekend disguised really average games. Not much to get envious of, England were even booed off the field at half time against Argentina.
Working Class Rugger said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
Sledge
It was cerainly a mixed bag. But I would say that the Wales vs Samoa game was good while the Aus vs Ire was entertaining and the Fra vs SA outstanding.
On the game. This was the best game by far. The Eng v NZ game was good wiithout being great and the French just were absolutely average. Sadly I can’t see that inbalance changing next year with PNG. But I might be wrong. Overall unless you’re an English Rugby fan (either code) it was a pretty good weekend of sport.
Working Class Rugger said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
I have to agree with Jay. The English always come out in number’s to support their teams. What I think the 4 Nations showed was the impact of teams like Hull and Wigan gaining Premier League status. The 4 Nations would have directly opposed them in England this time of year. So it become a point of choice. And Soccer reigns supreme in England.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
How you mean wigan and hull?
Wigan game still got 23k and there wasnt a game in Hull
JamesB said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
It would have been nice to see the world champions take on Australia in the final.
Working Class Rugger said | November 16th 2009 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
Mitch
Over the past few years Soccer teams from the North have become more prominent in both the EPL and CC Championship. In particular teams like Wigan FC and Hull FC. Both have made it to the EPL. Along with the success they bring in new fans. Or existing fans that previously would choose say League over a lowly ranked team. But due to the growth in quality of teams particularly in RL territory fans who were ‘fairweather’ have changed allegiances. Happens with all sports really.
M1tch said | November 16th 2009 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
Yeh, but wigan and both hulls crowds havent really been affected by the EPL teams..
Wigan are usually a 12-16k
Hull FC the same and KR about 8-9k
Football is a big sport and EPL is the biggest comp in the world, I always expected the EPl teams to get big crowds, Bradford in the day got better crowds than Bulls.
Leeds United get bigger than Rhinos.
But League crowds dont usually get affected.
Matt S said | November 16th 2009 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
In terms of Hull tigers and Wigan FC support, a lot of folk in those towns either didn’t follow the clubs in the lower levels or in Wigan’s case, their current supports used to go to follow Man U, Everton and even Burnley. Now they are in the top flight many of them have ‘come home’. How long that lasts depends on how long they are in ther top flight.
Wigan & Hull FC in league have not lost supporters despite having ordinary seasons lately. In fact all indicators of healthy support are on the up: season ticket holders, merchandise etc (though Wigan do need a better major sponsor).
Rhino said | November 16th 2009 @ 6:47pm | Report comment
Lads, the economy might have something to do with the poor attendances. Folk in the northern industrial towns are hurting more than most from the recession. And I don’t think the switch to playing as England has helped – people up here liked the old GB identity. It’s what we played as for decades and the traditional kit looked a lot better!
I don’t know if you guys got the UK TV feed but there was quite a lot of depression amongst the commentators. The general consensus was that the Aussies are getting farther and farther away from the English lads. I think the English administrators need to help the players – if you have a smaller pool of talent, then you have to compensate in other ways, e.g. a better structure that enables England’s players to spend more time together and enter the big tournaments fresh and ready to go. Look at what Ireland did in rugby union in the early 2000s – they were getting pasted by England every time so they went away and devised a system that enabled Ireland’s players to be at the absolute peak of their performance. The Irish are now Grand Slam Champions.
The problem with English sport is that parochial club identities are very, very strong and the national team always comes second. It happens in cricket, it happens in union, it happens in league, and it happens in football. All the power lies with the clubs and none of them care enough about the national team to be prepared to take a hit to their wallets or lessen their control over players.
Angus Boyle said | November 16th 2009 @ 7:46pm | Report comment
Rhino, very interesting points you raised and they had me agreeing with them all.
Dan said | November 18th 2009 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
Very interesting Rhino… New Zealand are another example of how a small country can organise itself to be peak performers. It’s also worth pointing out that in Union England has 6 times more players than Australia, yet we’re more consistently competitive (even accounting for our bad trot at the moment). Perhaps English people don’t care enough about international sport or the prestige of the national team? It reminds me a bit of the US basketball team and how they were underperforming for a while thanks to a lack of interest from their insular population.
King of the Gorganites said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
the real test for the 4 nations is how it went finanically.
crowds were a bit disappointing. in the hearland crowds we only ok. in doncaster, london, and france crowds were poor. tv ratings were ok without being exeptional. will the tournament make money? i doubt it. if that is the case then it would be difficult for it to continue beyond next year. that would essentially spell the end of international RL, which would be disappoininting. i dont see any other alternatives. unforunately the irfl doesnt have an unlimited amount of money to keep propping up the tournament.
M1tch said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
12 000 in Toulouse was good, 12 000 at London and 11k in Doncaster
they probably budgeted for the crowds, officals said the 6000 in Paris was more than expected.
King of the Gorganites said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
i was probably mistaken by suggesting toulouse was poor. that was actually ok. it does show how disappointing doncaster was though.
even though they may have budgeted for those figure i dont think they would have lead to a profit.
i thought 6K in paris was poor
atmosphere in final was awesome though. ashame they didnt hold it at bigger stadium
M1tch said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
scheduling is always tough, although in 2004 they managed to get in better stadiums ie Hull and City of Manchester
Remeber though England smashed Paris by 60 in June and still got the same amount of crowd when they got smashed week before by kiwis.
The doncaster crowd isnt huge, it would have been 20k plus if held at Hull.
ScottWoodward.me said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:54pm | Report comment
It is more about TV and media interest and nothing rates better on TV in Australia than RL, and with the prospect of NZ and England being even stronger next year the 4 Nations will be a beauty.
JimC said | November 18th 2009 @ 1:08am | Report comment
After watching the replay of the final, Australia were lucky they had the Kiwi ref on their side. Some absurd decisions including the Inglis try in the first half. It was a pure knock on.
I do hope the aussies keep picking Gallen. What a liability.
The tournament made a profit before it even started. It was underwritten by the TV companies and Gillette. The crowds are just a bonus.
Can’t wait for next year!
ScottWoodward.me said | November 18th 2009 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
Jim may I suggest you watch the game again.
I agree Gallen gives away dumb penalties, but he was clearly Australia’s best forward. He never stopped working and deservedly got the players award.
sledgeross said | November 18th 2009 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
Actually, if you look at the two penalties Gallen gave away early in the first half, they were actually quite marginal. He was tremendous in his workrate, as he was often the only forward to get THROUGH the advantage line.
Only an ignorant imbecile would suggest the Kangaroos were “lucky”. Agree, the Inglis try shouldnt have been given, but there were a few things that went the Poms way as well (knock ons etc)
ScottWoodward.me said | November 18th 2009 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
Sledge good post. They weren’t lucky but the final score was not an indication of the game.
sledgeross said | November 18th 2009 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
Of course not, I wasnt saying that. But the better team one, luck had nothing to do with it. Its just teh Poms couldnt go 80, and their halves didnt back themselves enough when they had field position.
ScottWoodward.me said | November 22nd 2009 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
The Poms have actually done their best work in the final 20 minutes with the exception being the final. I have no doubt they are just as fit as the Australians and get every bit of 80 minutes.
Some of the tries that Australia got were freakish as everything they tried came off and it downhearted the Poms. Inglis’ try could have easily been a no try and some pin point kicks could have easily not came off, but everything came off and the best team won, but they are not a 30 point better team.