By Eamonn Flanagan
November 17th 2009 @ 2:57am
Loading ...All Whites defeat Bahrain: like it or lump it
Pim Verbeek has been criticised continually by all and sundry regarding his teams’ performances as they marched towards South Africa. Too negative, too defensive, too boring.
So it was interesting to see Australia playing perhaps it’s most attacking and stylish football in the 20 minutes in Oman before Rhys Williams was sent off and the game inevitably changed.
It made me think, do we need Josh Kennedy? But that’s for another day.
Earlier in the day I hooked up to Setanta with the hope of seeing New Zealand overcome Bahrain to qualify for the World Cup. They did and the atmosphere, the commitment and open-ness of both teams made it one of the great moments in sport, especially for New Zealand fans.
And three strikers.
Ricky Herbert employed three direct strikers who loved to play down the middle, and in Celtic’s Chris Killen and Plymouth Argyle’s Sean Fallon he had two who love to get under the highest of high balls. And they had to.
I’ve never seen a ball lumped so high, so often in a game for years, but the crowd seemed to appreciate it, cheering every time it went high and into the mixer.
Style?
New Zealand had none, bar moments of football class from Leo Bertos, who, when he faded, the style went with it.
Full-back Ben Sigmund can lump it longer than his left-sided counterpart Tony Lochead, certainly more accurately. Ryan Nelson is more consistent at the lump than Ivan Vicelich.
He should, he plays in England.
It was a fanatastic game, despite, or maybe because of, the lumping.
Bahrain couldn’t match it, and lost a goal to a corner. Bahrain did expose Tony Lochead time and time again and eventually he conceded a penalty.
The collective Kiwi breath was held and New Zealand’s very own Mark Scharzwer, Mark Paston, was born. Paston saved it.
Tension remained high but the game was won. Australia will be happy to draw the Kiwi’s if the draw allows.
Perhaps more importantly, despite the criticisms of Verbeek, we have come so far. We may not be world beaters, but lumping it to three big blokes is NEVER used by Australia football, Socceroos, or A-League coaches anymore.
It was a great win for New Zealand, for Australian A-League fans, and hopefully it can only be good for the game in New Zealand.
But surely we couldn’t lose to New Zealand in South Africa, could we?
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Alex said | November 17th 2009 @ 8:20am | Report comment
Apparently they didnt play one country with a population of more than a million. Not that big an achievement. Lets face it, they had an easier run than we did. The qualifiers outside of Europe and South America are a joke.
Darwin hammer said | November 17th 2009 @ 8:59am | Report comment
How many times are you going to post the same thing Alex – trying to pour cold water on a fantastic achievement just makes you look petty … it’s not NZ’s fault who they ended up playing … they progressed via the route they were given – just like every team thay makes it to SA …
A great night night for NZ football and a fantastic atmosphere – that’s what should be taken from this … I’m happy that both Australia and NZ have made it – for far too long the we’ve been shut out by poor qualification routes – now that we’re getting there more regularly football in this region is growing – that can only be a good thing
Brett McKay said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:15am | Report comment
thay can only play who they’re drawn Alex, I’m sure they didn’t request of FIFA “no opposition with populations over 1M”!! They’re in Oceania for goodness sake, NZ takes up how big a percentage of that popoluation?!?
A question though to better football brains than my own – when did th Oceania winner switch from playing South America’s 4th or 5th, to an Asian qualifer??
Darwin hammer said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Well this qualifying campaign – seeing Australia went to Germany after beating Uruguay
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Brett – we played Iran in 1997 and last time I checked they are not in South America.
Oceania winner played -
Argentina – 1993
Iran – 1997
Uruguay – 2001
Uruguay – 2005
Bahrain – 2009
Brett McKay said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:54am | Report comment
thanks Art, Jimbo mentioned that in his explanation below, and it seems Oceania plays whoever FIFA tells them to. I even remember watching the Iran game in ‘97 too, should have thought of that before..
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Steady on Alex, thats not the Kiwi’s fault. Bahrain beat Saudi to win the right to play NZ.
Iran’s campaign was disaster and they finished below Saudi in their group.
Please explain to me how African qualifiers are a joke?
Redb said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:05am | Report comment
My over-riding impression of New Zealand making the World Cup is that cheapens Australia achievement.
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:12am | Report comment
How so redb??
Redb said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:16am | Report comment
I think it lowers the status of the WC tournament. Rugby union is the dominant sport in NZ, soccer is a minor player.
Australia lobbied to move out of the Oceania Group to make it easier to qualify yet minnow NZ makes it.
Darwin hammer said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:34am | Report comment
Based on that flawed argument Australia cheapens the W/Cup also – seeing football isn’t the dominant sport in Australia .. or the USA for that matter …
Redb said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:42am | Report comment
how is it flawed? Soccer is a minor sport in NZ a small country, yet they’re able to qualify for the World Cup.
AndyRoo said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:48am | Report comment
It’s minor in the same way football is minor in Australia, it’s of minor interest among spectators. It’s their number one participation code and while the numbers are small we all know Australia and NZ are the two best sporting nations in the world. No need to debate that
Bay35Pablo said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:51am | Report comment
Redb, small country NZ (population 4.2m) beats small country Bahrain (pop. 791K).
Fact is Bahrain qualified out of Asia, the most populous conference. Where’s China, the most populous country in the world? Don’t matter if you can’t qualify.
Darwin hammer said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:53am | Report comment
Of course it’s flawed … that’s why it’s called a World Cup – it’s open to every country – it has nothing to do with the size of the place – each has their own qualification pathway
so because little old NZ has qualified it cheapens Australia being there – what a total load of crap …
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 11:02am | Report comment
What you fail to grasp redb WC qualifying is part of the World Cup. Its just that the Kiwis have made it to the final 32. Its like an unseeded player at Wimbledon getting a lucky draw and ends up in the last 32.
What you also need to grasp is the monumental failure of countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia to miss out on making the finals. They failed so badly, they did not even get a chance to play NZ.
For goodness sake Trinidad and Tobago went to the last WC. Did their presence cheapen the WC??
Finally, being a recognised football nation is no guarantee of qualifying for the WC Finals. Just look at England. They failed to qualify for three finals tournaments 1974, 1978 and 1994
Redb said | November 17th 2009 @ 11:06am | Report comment
I dont fail to grasp anything. The fact is NZ qualified for the World Cup in a sport that is minor in that country.
It’s not the end of the World Cup I just think it drops a peg or two in the sporting achievement stakes to qualify.
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 11:34am | Report comment
redb – no it does not. It was NZ’s good fortune to get Bahrain in the knock out game. It has nothing to do with Football being a minor sport in NZ.
Your argument is nonsensical, flawed and only posted to provoke. There will always be minnows that qualify for the WC and big countries that miss out. Its the nature of the beast.
You must be bored now that the AFL season is over
Darwin hammer said | November 17th 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
what rubbish – try telling all the participants in NZ that it’s minor – try telling that to the 35k+ crowd that was there … yeah they’re minnows on a global basis – but that shouldn’t preclude them from being able to qualify – NZ football fans will have a ball in SA as have other small county’s fans in the past
Redb said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
Art,
So you think I’m just trolling becuase my opinion may differ to yours?
I have expressed my opinion and couched it in those terms. It is not a statement of fact, merely my impression.
“My over-riding impression of New Zealand making the World Cup is that cheapens Australias achievement”
Redb
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
redb – where did I accuse you of trolling. I welcome your opinions in any forum.
I did not tell you to go away.
You expressed an opinion which you are completely entitled to on this issue.
My opinion of your opinion on this issue was that it was nonsensical, flawed and only posted to provoke.
The only problem was you really wanted KB to bite on it so you could have some fun
Redb said | November 17th 2009 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
Art,
Hmmmm… maybe “Your argument is nonsensical, flawed and only posted to provoke”
Nothing to do with KB, it was my impression when I heard the news on SEN over the weekend.
Not afraid to swim against the tide Art, if I’m the only person in Australia with this opinion so be it.
2006 WC qualification was very special, 2010 appears more normal, now with NZ almost mundane.
Redb
mahony said | November 18th 2009 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Wrong. Just wrong. You do ‘fail to grasp’ – but I suspect it is more than that. You choose ‘not to grasp’.
Redb said | November 18th 2009 @ 8:33am | Report comment
It can’t be wrong, its an opinion an impression. Do you want a dictionary?
By NZ making the World Cup it makes Australia’s acheivement look less significant.
Joe FC said | November 18th 2009 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Credibility has nothing to do with how many may or may not agree with your opinion. It has everything to do with experience, knowledge and objectivity. So far you’ve managed to convince no-one.
Redb said | November 18th 2009 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Art,
just replying to all the “who have no right to an opinion” comments.
If you bother to look at it a bit closely you’ll detect a degree of pride in my comments re Australia’s efforts at making the WC in 2006 and now to lesser extent 2010.
Redb
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
redb – you are a man of the world. WC qualifying can take on many forms. Some teams qualified early and relatively uneventfully. Spain, Holland, Brazil, Australia etc.
For others the excitement levels can reach fever pitch – just like us in 2005.
Here is an example for your education. Egypt needed a 2 goal win against Algeria to force a sudden death playoff against the same team. They scored the goal which kept there hopes alive in the 5 minute of injury time. Algeria were seconds away from qualification.
Now they have to play again in a neutral venue Sudan on to decide who will go.
Just look at the reactions. The magic of football!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z49j8qFm7hQ&feature=related
K B said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
Art,
amazzzing passion!!! Although in the first clip when the players were on their hands and knees they were playing Marn Grooky; until it rolled over to the second clip and I saw what you were on about … Now that’s Football….
btw I thought I had a previous comment up but it seems to have gone missing … Did you see where it went…
Redb said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
There is a world outside of Mt Alexander Road and Buckley St? No say it aint so.
Robbos said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:44pm | Report comment
Truly the magic of football!!!!
Stalker said | November 18th 2009 @ 8:46am | Report comment
RedB – No matter what we say – you probably wont listen. Did you know that this is the second time NZ has made the World Cup. Did you know that NZ actually scored a goal in the World Cup before Australia did?
So, by what your saying.. that if I was Italian, American, English, Dutch, German or any of the other 31 nations in the World Cup finals, I would be entitled to feel that the event is cheapened because Australia made it – because its NOT Australias national sport – nor is it #2 or #3 and prob lucky to be at #4 at the moment.
Remember Senegal -making the semis..minnows and they were a joy to watch. So were the Socceroos last world cup. The minnows create many special memories in World Cups. I wont feel that it is cheapened by Australia making the World Cup – dont worry. If you choose to, then so be it – none of us understand you and will just relate your comments to provocative jibba jabber.
No haka please.
AndyRoo said | November 18th 2009 @ 8:54am | Report comment
I don’t think Redb said the World Cup is cheapened, but it’s not enough just to make it now.
We have to do better than NZ.
Second Round or bust.
Redb said | November 18th 2009 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Stalker,
Hit a nerve? Must have by the reaction.
You simply don’t get that the 2010 WC qualification is not as special in my eyes as 2006, by NZ making the WC it just dropped another peg.
If you really want to go off on a tangent then explain to me why the top 32 countries in the world will not be at the next World Cup?
Take the average of the FIFA rankings for the year and then see if it equals or is close to the 32 teams that do qualify.
England failed to qualify in the past Art said: “Just look at England. They failed to qualify for three finals tournaments 1974, 1978 and 1994″…. Was that becuase they were not in the top ranked countries or because the Euro pool they are in is stronger than other pools?
Redb
AndyRoo said | November 18th 2009 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Apart from Australia in 97 (who went undefeated) the reason nations don’t make the world cup is because they lose matches. If your good enough to win all your matches you make it.
The rankings have a biased weighting system involved that protects the status quo somewhat. You get more points for beating Malta than an Asian team ranked slightly above Malta.
It will never be the top 32 that make it because of travel concerns so nations have to qualify against other teams in their geographic area. It seems some people just want to watch the European championships but with Brazil and Argentina…ignoring the fact Argentina only came into the public consciousness when they did well at the world cup. Before then they weren’t rated.
Redb said | November 18th 2009 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Thanks AndyRoo.
But it would be fair to say that a greater number of Euro nations would make it compared to say Asia if based on FIFA rankings (averaged) ?
Art Sapphire said | November 18th 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
redb – if you did your home work and bothered to read up on the matter you would have discover the following.
Every confederation in is allocated a certain number of the 32 places based on size and strength of the confederation. Europe got 13, Africa 5, South America 4.5, Asia 4.5, etc, etc. Each Confederation then organises their own qualifying tournaments to see who from their respective confederations will attend the finals.
You have to earn the right to qualify. You can’t just invite the 32 top ranked teams. The magic of WC is that it allows small countries to dream about qualifying and sometimes it becomes a reality.
No one seems to have a problem with this concept, except you.
If you get down on bended knee and plead sheer ignorance – I might forgive for wasting my time
Redb said | November 18th 2009 @ 9:42am | Report comment
Art,
I dont have a ‘problem’ with it. The outcome though has produced a mediocre not a magic result IMO.
Obviously purists are in love it as they see it as some brilliant result for the game in NZ.
You all say I’m wrong but you would all acknowledge that Australia qualifying for 2006 was a magic result – it was magic becuase it was hard to acheive.
Redb
Robbos said | November 18th 2009 @ 9:57am | Report comment
New Zealand are well known to punch above their own weight.
They are world champions at rugby League, when they only have 1 team in the NRL. I’m sure they have a local competition but most aren’t aware of it & none of their int’l s players are from that competition.
They are normally favourites for every Rugby WC (though known as chokers), not bad for a nation of only 3 million.
They quite often make the Cricket WC semis ahead of India (cricket mad & 1 billion people), while NZ (not so cricket mad & 3 million people).
So not sure why people have an issue with New Zealand making the WC, they beat the 5th best Asain nation, who finished ahead of countries like China (1.2 billion), India (1 billion) Indonesia (300 million).
I think it’s a tremendous effort by New Zealand, for some the goal is to win the world cup for others the goal is to get to the world cup.
Stalker said | November 18th 2009 @ 10:05am | Report comment
SO redB – your are saying that Aust winning Oceania in 06, then beating Uraguay in a penalty shootout is better than NZ winning Oceania in 2010 and then beating Bahrain in normal time? Do you think you think this way possibly because you might be Australian? Sure Oceania is one team lighter than the year before. Who cares?
I think you may have got a little excited over the fact is was just a penalty shootout – possibly the most inhumane way of deciding a winner – the heights of ecstasy for the winners and thoughts of throat slitting for the losers.
for an Australian, “I dont want NZ to make the World Cup because I want it to be special for us” is what your comments sound like.
Art Sapphire said | November 18th 2009 @ 10:12am | Report comment
redb – the Kiwis did not determine who their opponent was going to be. You can only beat what you have been given. It does not make their qualification spot less meritorious.
As I have said before – the Kiwis could have faced Iran – the country that knocked us out in 1997 – but their campaign was so disastorous they did not even get a chance to play against New Zealand. The Kiwis could have faced Saudi Arabia (a country that has qualified for 4 World Cups) but Bahrain defeated them to earn the right to play New Zealand.
By your definition it is a MEDIOCRE result when a minnow qualifies for the WC.
For example the last 32 at Wimbledon is not made up of the top 32 seeds.
Even though the top 32 have been seeded to meet each other in the last 32, quite a few of them would have fallen in the opening to rounds to lowly unseeded players (even qualifiers ranked in the hundreds). Some of those unseeded players through the good fortune of the draw might not have even played a seeded player to reach the last 32.
Next time redb. Why don’t you complain on a tennis blog and tell everyone on how a qualifiers making the final rounds of Wimbledon is a mediocre result. Your argument as I have just proved is ridiculous and you are making yourself look silly in the process. Give this blog a rest and focus on something else. That’s what I am going to do.
Redb said | November 18th 2009 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Stalker,
“for an Australian, “I dont want NZ to make the World Cup because I want it to be special for us” is what your comments sound like.”
That is sort of what I’m saying yes. Not so much that I dont want them to qualify but by them qualifying it makes our achievement seem less special/difficult.
Looking at it from a purely Australian view.
Redb
Redb said | November 18th 2009 @ 10:21am | Report comment
Art,
I suggest you take it easy. This is an opinion website, I’m not interested in you appointing yourself moderator of what can or cant be said!
Redb
Art Sapphire said | November 18th 2009 @ 10:32am | Report comment
You can write what you like redb – what I meant was give this subject a rest. I’ve had my fill. But if you want to keep going like a broken record, go for it. Ciao!!
Simmo said | November 17th 2009 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
Because he wants it to be cheapened, Art.
Darwin hammer said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:24am | Report comment
Why ?
Robbos said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:57am | Report comment
Very simple!!! he doesn’t like football & any opportunity to kick football in this country, he likes to take it.
What a stupid view.
Redb said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Your being hysterical. it’s just an opinion.
K B said | November 17th 2009 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Be careful Redb, the moderators may delete all your comments here on a Football Thread…
~~~~~~~
KB
Hansie said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Congratulations to New Zealand. A great result.
jimbo said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Brett,
good question and there’s no real formula for the Oceania qualification process and its not a permanent switch.
Oceania have always had a half WC spot – which means they have to play off against some other confederation.
Over the years the Socceroos have failed to qualify to get to a WC against nations like South Korea, Israel, Scotland, Argentina. Iran and Uruguay.
We even ended up playing Uruguay two WC campaigns in a row and thankfully beat them the second time.
The Oceania WC qualification opponents are decided at a FIFA committee meeting and depending on who has the most influence, because they are all jumping over themselves to play Oceania for a WC spot, which they see as the weakest federation.
With the next WC handed to Brazil, I’d say the next WC qualification would see Oceania playing the 5th South American team again.
Brett McKay said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:41am | Report comment
ah right, thanks Jimbo, so there’s no hard and fast rule for Oceania. Thanks Darwin Hammer above too..
K B said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:09am | Report comment
Jimbo,
not if they go into the Asian confederation — I think a more likely scenario… Asia won’t let that half spot go so easily…
btw good to see you back…
~~~~~~~
KB
Darwin hammer said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:10am | Report comment
Ideally what Oceania need to do is to try and take their half spot and get into the second round of Asian qualifiers … something that Asia may be open to given as Jimbo says above they’re seen as the weakest federation and it gives Asia 5 full spots …
this would be the win / win for NZ – assuming they continue to dominate Oceania – then they’d have a meaningful qualification process and the opportunity to host home qualifying games to try and replicate the excellent turn out in Wgtn … but at the same time leave them in Ocenia where they would able to take advantage of their youth and womens teams qualifying for the various age group W/cups as well as the Olympics and Con Feds Cup ….
AndyRoo said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:22am | Report comment
That would be the best of both worlds for NZ football.
If the Asian teams do badly at the world cup expect the AFC to come knocking on oceania’s door in adesparate bid to keep their 5 spots.
K B said | November 17th 2009 @ 11:24am | Report comment
Darwin Hammer,
precisely; that would be an ideal solution DH … great for Asia and Oceania and allows HAL to grow into NZ with a extra team; to even further, strengthen their National Football Team….
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 3:36pm | Report comment
correct DH – I just posted the same idea in response to dasilva’s post
K B said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:58am | Report comment
Emmon,
an excellent article and my same thoughts exactly… Congratulations to the “All Whites” (not sure how that name will go down in Africa tho)… Nonetheless, shades of the “Australian National Football Team” taking centre stage, in a Rugby mad nation… $10m in the coffers, I hope this will be spent wisely by the governing body of NZ Football…
I am hoping that, this could lead to maybe another HAL franchise in Auckland, or the renaissance of the Auckland Kingz (loved that name) to build upon; to what is now a good foot hold for NZ Football and a call for NZ Football to join the Asian Confederation — or some way for Oceania to connect amicable with the Asian Confederation … be it a sub-Asian branch of Asia, to allow them into the Asian National Championships… There must be better relationships forged between these to conflicting confederations for the good of Football in the South Pacific region…
~~~~~~~
KB
keeper11 said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:07am | Report comment
Apparently in some other code…
4 teams just turnup ….
with no qualiifying whatsoever…
play a couple of games….
winner runs around pronounces themesleves…ahem ‘ World champions ‘
how about 10 posts on THAT topic….
oh…forgot ..pouring cold water is only reserved for ‘tha sockah’…
albatross said | November 18th 2009 @ 8:10am | Report comment
Yeah I remember the International Demitasse being covered in great detail by two or three posters here. Can somebody remind me of the crowd at that final again? And has anybody got any idea of the worldwide TV audience?
cinematic said | November 17th 2009 @ 10:23am | Report comment
As a kiwi I’m proud of the lads achievement. But let’s face it, crap teams shouldn’t be at any sports World Cup. And we are crap, so for that matter is Bahrain and the bulk of Asia’s qualified teams.
The football WC is deeply flawed.
Lazza said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
Crap teams shouldn’t be at any World Cup? Have you ever seen a Rugby, Cricket or Rugby League World Cup?
At least the minnows at the Football World Cup aren’t there just to make up the numbers and are usually competitive and occasionally pull off an enormous upset.
Midfielder said | November 17th 2009 @ 5:10pm | Report comment
Cinematic
You sound so knowledgeable care to explain what the WC is about… BTW whether NZ get thrashed or not the WC is made up of 32 nations where my guess is the top 24 all give themselves a chance of winning it…
Football has 380 million players most of the best in the 380 million are at the WC… enjoy and embrace I suggest the fact that SA has been given the chance in front of the world to show they can hold it… it will be the most watched sports event in the world by so far it is not funny… that people come from all over the world to get together to watch and enjoy the WC experience… Recently I played in the World Master’s in Sydney in the over 50’s we had 26 teams from all parts of the world … just enjoy the experience of it…
BTW every WC there are between 1 & 4 teams who by all accounts should not be there … that is the joy of football they somehow won against all the odds… NZ I must say have been lucky in getting Bahrain but that is life..
Eamonn said | November 17th 2009 @ 11:54am | Report comment
Disagree Cinematic
The beauty of the World Cup is seeing some of the lesser football nations, NZ. Australia, and in the past Algeria, Zaire and others making their mark and taking on the perceived better nations, and of course the best in the World playing for their countries.
The World Cup is also a celebration of football across the World, not just a tournament to be won.
Unlike club titles which are always bought by rich owners in all countries the World Cup actually brings a bit of diversity into football…although with everything rules are stretched as far as possible these days.
A World Cup full of the best 32 teams from Europe and South America…would be a tad boring in my view. We need the “weaker” nations, it adds to the interest, provides shocks along the way and who knows New Zealand may do better than we think.
With 32 teams in the mix there will be plenty of top nations and NZ and the like will depart early you would think. Countries like Ireland, Greece, Russia, Slovenia, Bosnia may miss out this week, but I’d rather see NZ giving it a go in the 32nd spot than yet another uninspiring European side. (Have you see the Irish recently?)
md said | November 17th 2009 @ 11:56am | Report comment
I’m thrilled for the Kiwis – and think quite the opposite; it highlights our involvement in the world cup. Football in this part of the world is strong and should be taken seriously. What NZ have completely trashed though, is west Asia’s claim to be any sort of football powerhouse. No Asian World Cup representatives west of the Korean Peninsula. It’s an unmitigated disaster.
The questions is whether this is:
(a) a nadir from which there will be a massive explosion in West Asian football; or
(b) the first step in the East asian nations (incl Aus and potentially even NZ) being considered as part of football’s first world – possibly resulting in a reshuffle of the confederations (for example merge Concacaf with East Asia/Oceania and West Asia with Africa to give you 4 confederations of equal strength).
I suppose the other really interesting question is whether this will cause an explosion of interest in the A-league in NZ, potentially resulting in franchise proposals from Auckland (again) or Christchurch. Frank may get his B-league much sooner than anticipated if WC qualification has the same effect in NZ that it did here.
Cheers
md
K B said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
MD,
I would like to have another look at the Auckland Kingz readmission somewhere close or after the next TV deal is made… A NZ derby could go down very well for NZ Football…
~~~~~~~
KB
md said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
Yeah – agree KB. The Kingz would be a great re-addition. Christchurch has 500K people in it too, so you would expect that to be a candidate as well.
When you consider NZ has roughly the population of Qld, which sustains 3 A-league teams, 3 NRL teams, 1 (soon 2) AFL teams and a Super franchise, then you have to come to the conclusion that NZ offers plenty of opportunity for expansion from its current 5 Super franchises and 1 each of the NRL and A-league.
We take for granted how much changed here after we qualified for the world cup.
Cheers
md
Robbos said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
I agree with you guys as well, i’d love to see a 2nd NZ side in the A-League.
Republican said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
I reckon Soccer is flawed because, like hockey, you can draw, win or lose despite any clear disparity in skill between competeing sides. This is because Soccer is such a low scoring dawdle of a game.
I remember watching the Hockey Gold medal playoff between Aust & NZ back in the 8o’s I think. The fact that the Kiwis were in the final was farcical in itself but then they managed a fluke goal very early on in the game and proceeded to stack their defence for the remainder, having zip forward line and defending their lead to take Gold against an opposition head and shoulders above them.
Soccer is much the same, so NZ could in fact win the WC despite it’s minnow status wheras the Union WC is a farce for the opposite reason, whereby you have minnows pitted against the half dozen top tier countries who are humiliated time and again.
This rather stilted contest could well be Soccers allure for many I suppose but for me – I’d sooner watch the grass grow in the Stoney Desert.
Cheers
md said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
Hooray for you then Republican.
I’m guessing this article was about your Republic then? Population, 1 dodgy league fan in the second hand car yard belt of Brissie? http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/articles/2007/05/11/1178390516735.html
Lazza said | November 17th 2009 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
That’s the strength and beauty of Football. In the World Cup or just in a domestic league the cream always rises to the top. In any one off match though, an underdog can pull off an amazing upset.
You reckon that’s a disadvantage? Like you said, Rugby or Cricket would love a few ‘upsets’ at their respective tournaments.
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
Republican – You must also be bored that AFL season is over.
You must have also got bored watching the grass grow in the Stoney desert
K B said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
I think the grass died after his six dozen of four XXXX cans… or was that VB ??? hmmm
katzilla said | November 17th 2009 @ 4:53pm | Report comment
‘The fact that the Kiwis were in the final was farcical in itself but then they managed a fluke goal very early on in the game and proceeded to stack their defence for the remainder, having zip forward line and defending their lead to take Gold against an opposition head and shoulders above them. ‘
Repub you my friend are pure Gold. I love it how Australia chokes in the final of the Olympics and its all the Kiwis fault for being poor opposition? Use your one eye to run back over your poor argument. If the Aussies were head and shoulders above them why did they not win? It wasn’t because they just weren’t good enough was it?
Matt S said | November 17th 2009 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
As a leaguie I think it is wonderful NZ have won thru to the world cup and our sport can only dream/aspire to such a thing. Well done All Whites.
No conspiracies here just a truly international tournament where anyone can have the chance to win thru. I’ll give soccer (football) that. Me thinks jealousy/fear pervades many negative comments.
Darwin hammer said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
Excellent post
K B said | November 17th 2009 @ 6:34pm | Report comment
Matt S,
you have done yourself proud…
Simmo said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
Reading this thread gives me the impression that the Redb spambot only comes with two settings:
1. Talk up AFL news, no matter how insignificant.
2. Denigrate other codes’ news, no matter how significant.
In this particular thread his factory settings have become stuck in setting #2.
AndyRoo said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
Bit harsh on Redb
I watched the NZ Bahrain game and it was fantastic and I think any body who says NZ shouldn’t be there is a kill joy.
But I can imagine there are a fair few average Joes who didn’t watch the NZplayoff who have been told that qualifying for the world cup is massive. In fact even amongst football friends whenever someone suggests Pim should be sacked because he is boring they are told to shut up and that getting to the world cup finals was a massive achievement (which it is)….. then these poor souls see NZ is going their and there thinking “hang on…. if this club is so exclusive how the f did the bloody kiwis get inside, what were the bouncers thinking?”
“At least T&T have style”
dasilva said | November 17th 2009 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
Yeah when the 74 socceroos qualify to the world cup. The newspaper in Germany were denigrating our achievement and believed our presense will devalue the tournament. Although to the credit of germany they did apologise after they saw us play and we gave respectable performances especially against East Germany
You can’t call redb some sort of antifootball for saying that when there’s plenty of football fans who say the same thing.
Although I don’t think any Australia should denigrate new zealand for their achievements when other big nations did the same thing to our achievements in the past.
however I believe there’s one way to solve this problem of perceived meritocracy
Put all the half spots team in one group (uruguay, Costa Rica, New Zealand and Bahrain). Then have a home and away playoff against each team and the top two qualify for the world cup. No one can argue that the side doesn’t deserve it if they manage to get through that.
Personally I thought both Australia and uruguay deserved world cup qualification in 2005
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
Good points dasilva, especially re 1974.
The problem with putting the 4 half spot teams in the one group is that they will need to play 6 additional matches.
Another solution is for Asia to bite the bullet and incorporate the Oceania winner into the final group stage of Asia. This eliminates the issue of the half spot. Also, there is then a possibility of Australia drawing New Zealand in the final group stage. Say 2 x 6 teams in the final group stage. Rather than 2 x 5 as it is at the moment.
It will aslo help NZ football as they would be hosting the likes of Japan, Korea, Iran etc etc.
Robbos said | November 17th 2009 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
I think this is the best idea, give the top 2 spots in Oceania a chance in the final group stage, 2x 6 teams.
This does not only help New Zealand but also another Oceania nation.
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
It sounds good in theory but I don’t think it will work in practice. Robbos you have to remember that nations like China, Thailand, Oman missed out on the final Asian group stage this time around and I am pretty sure that if Asia went to 2 x 6 they would want the 11th team to be Asian.
Simmo said | November 17th 2009 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
Personally I’d like to see Oceania become a sub-confederation (however defined) of Asia.
It really only deserves the same status as ASEAN.
keeper11 said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
.. Thousands of football and non-football followers partied through the night in Wellington in a spontaneous show of joy and elation just for qualifying to the worlds biggest sporting event..
Republican and 2 other like-minded mates were seen celebrating Strayas latest League triumph on the umm ..international ’stage’ ( or is it a bar stool?) in some logan city phone box i guess..
Gweeds said | November 17th 2009 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
I wish people like republican DID go and watch grass grow in the Stoney Desert and stop commenting on football in the football section.
I mean his views are so revealing and revolutionary. We haven’t heard them before. I was startled.
Matt S said | November 17th 2009 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
Simmo, I noticed on the front page of The Age (front page) on Saturday an indigenous AFL player standing in the outback with red dirt in his hand as though the AFL is some messiah to the outback.
I am perplexed why the need for the AFL and its media lackies to run this story at this time of year. It is becoming so manufactured. Surely there are better things to talk about in the news. With this type of environment it’s a wonder why things like NZ’s entry into the world cup flies straight over the head of people like RedB.
Anyway, don’t want to get off the subject…….Well done All Whites!
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 3:51pm | Report comment
I will give you the answer Matt S. Being a Melburnian I am an expert on the subject. Melburnians have the need the constantly remind themselves that they are living in the best city in Australia if not the world and that we play the greatest game the world has ever seen. You can call it a chip on our collective shoulder and it manifests itself everywhere including the media.
Anyway, don’t want to get off the subject…….Well done All Whites!
danny said | November 17th 2009 @ 6:23pm | Report comment
did you actually read the story? it’s an amazing one. liam jurrah, initiated warrior from the walpiri nation 300km north of alice springs. didn’t play footy in boots until 2-3 years ago, now playing at the highest level. jim stynes, irishman, didn’t play the game until he was 19 or so, won the games highest individual honour.
jim made a promise to liam earlier in the year to visit his home once the season was over. jim honoured that promise despite being in the middle of radiotherapy for metastatic cancer.
sometimes the melbourne media can be a little pre-occupied with the afl. but this inspiring story is far from ‘manufactured’.
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 7:11pm | Report comment
danny – yes, the jurrah story is a remarkable one. I was just making a witty, general observation on Melbourne’s collective neuroses.
danny said | November 17th 2009 @ 7:30pm | Report comment
sorry art, the reply was to matt s. i certainly agree that the news outlets in this town can focus on the local goings-on (especially with regard to footy) to the detriment of real news. but i think matt chose a poor example to focus on. especially as a long-suffering dees man. we’ll take any good news we can get!
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 7:36pm | Report comment
dan – I caught up with a Dees acquaintance on the weekend. He has just grown a beard and has promised much to his partners annoyance that he will not remove it until the Dees have won 4 in a row. I feel for his missus.
danny said | November 17th 2009 @ 7:38pm | Report comment
he’s getting a good head-start for next movember
Matt S said | November 17th 2009 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
Keeper11, Republican & co are AFL fans not league fans. And the league win was great and should be appreciated in terms of skill of great athletes like Slater & Inglis even though the game has limited international presence.
Republican said | November 17th 2009 @ 6:09pm | Report comment
Art Sapphire
Indeed, yet no matter how desperate the tedium, i have never once needed to resort to watching the ‘roond’ ball game mate.
I always have my French Knitting to fall back on.
Cheers
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 7:21pm | Report comment
Republican – considering you hate watching the round ball game.
You somehow feel the need to comment on a round ball thread.
What happened did you run out of yarn?
Republican said | November 17th 2009 @ 6:23pm | Report comment
K B
I enjoy a German Pils ie ‘Koenigs’ from time to time and I am presently contemplating quaffing an Italian ‘Nastro Azzurro Peroni’.
Both these countries make a fine liqued amber however their ‘roond’ ball persuasions leave much to be desired
Salute
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
Republican – So you find sokkah boring! There are millions of people who think just like you. You are not unique.
But, I doubt they find themselves on football blogs telling people that they find the game boring.
I happen to find your comments on AFL interesting and worthwhle but you do yourself no favours by coming on here and making yourself look silly.
Republican said | November 17th 2009 @ 7:59pm | Report comment
Art Sappire
Do you think that when you comment on blogs outside of your comfort zone you too are rendered ’silly’?
My initial comment may not have been a revelation by any means, however it was pertinent.
Cheers
Art Sapphire said | November 17th 2009 @ 8:25pm | Report comment
Republican – I don’t mean to disappoint you but I try to stay within my subject range on this website.
You don’t see me going on RU blogs discussing one of their endless rule changes and tell them that their game is stupid and wondering aloud how on earth some people like watching it. That would be silly and impertinent
Zac Zavos said | November 17th 2009 @ 8:09pm | Report comment
Republican – your comment wasn’t pertinent I’m afraid. Weighing into a thread to say you don’t like a sport simply isn’t appropriate.
This post is about how the All Whites defeated Bahrain – please stick to the topic and please report inappropriate comments.
Freud of Football said | November 17th 2009 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
Zac, what’s the deal? Why the censorship of late? People might get off topic but sometimes the branched out comments are – while not entirely relevant to the thread – relevant on the whole.
The Roar has some excellent content, censoring the authors of the crowd (on which you obviously rely for the bulk of your site) isn’t the best idea ever.
Australian media is censored enough as it is, that’s part of the beauty of this site, the community here aren’t entirely plugged into the agenda-driven media and as such discuss issues from a different perspective rather than just the standard match reports and sex scandals.
Robbos said | November 17th 2009 @ 8:36pm | Report comment
I find it inappropiate, while we are here to discuss the merits of the All Whites & while it’s ok to to drift off topic.
However to come on with the main purpose to criticise a whole sport simply because you do not like in order to provoke others who may enjoy the sport is simply inappropiate.
AndyRoo said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:36pm | Report comment
Plus 1 with Robbos.
I think there was an article called “league is checkers and rugby is chess” the middle of the comments were football fans and AFL fans discussing the simalarity between their games. It occured naturaly as part of the conversation and I thought that was fine.
if republicans comments were from a first time poster i would assume they are trolling. Their are plenty of articles that seem designed for such insights as “I hate football” but in a thread of actual merit and with newsworthy content we don’t need such insights.
K B said | November 17th 2009 @ 9:03pm | Report comment
West Germany’s media were a lot receptive to the Socceroos than our own Sydney press (don’t know about Melb probably worse).. Manfred Schaffer made such an enormous impact whilst in West Germany with full page human interest stories; an expat from WG and part time Sydney footballer … self employed Sydney milkman, living his football dream playing for his adopted country Australia… In Sydney he was hardly given a second thought, but in West Germany he was a king for four weeks with respect…
1974 was an era where if you played football you were a Sheila, Wog, or a Poofter… Ah yes the Australian media were so kind to our wonderful band of Footballing pioneers.. Republican has reminded us that nothing has changed much at all …
Zac.. where is your consistency?? deleting my post on an AFL thread and allowing Republican’s troll crap to stay on the Football thread … Shame …. Shame …. Shame
Freud of Football said | November 18th 2009 @ 1:39am | Report comment
I don’t know what KB wrote but really, for mine it would have to be complete and utter spam for it to warrant deletion, anything else on an opinion portal is blatant censorship.
Never mind consistency, what about “freedom of speech”?
Whether Zac or any moderator finds a comment useful or not does not necessarily represent the site on a whole. Some of the comments found on the site are often every bit as insightful as the pieces themselves and while they often divulge from the topic, I don’t see how that is a bad thing.
K B said | November 18th 2009 @ 8:07am | Report comment
Good for you FF, tell me how Republican’s comment “watching grass grow” is more insightful compared to showing a video of Harrow Football, demonstrating Football’s great ancestral root …?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4I3-w9589E
md said | November 18th 2009 @ 8:18am | Report comment
I agree with you Freud, except to the extent that obvious trolling (like our lonely mate Republican above) is infantile and about as witty as the Footy Show (either version really). I have no problems with deleting obvious trolling – and preferably replacing the entry with a note that the author has been censured for trolling, for all to see. It might be something for Zac to consider.
Cheers
md.
Zac Zavos said | November 18th 2009 @ 11:28am | Report comment
KB & Freud of Football,
This is not about censorship. You are generally free to comment and say what you want on this site as long is it’s within our comments policy.
We are, though, actively working to avoid two things from detracting from the site.
1. Flaming and abuse. This is the norm on so many other sites, but The Roar is reasonably unique in that almost all commenters are informed, respectful and articulate. We don’t want abuse to be acceptable on The Roar.
2. Off topic posts which bring back code v code debates. We hear from hundreds of you that this is tedious – the same guys keep bringing up this code v code debate. There is a time and place for it – as AndyRoo points out.
But people weighing into an otherwise sensible debate with comments that they don’t like this sport or that…well, it just ruins the discussion.
We receive over 14,500 comments on month and the last thing we want it to moderate or censor the site. But we also listen to you when you say you don’t want to be abused, and you don’t want threads taken off topic.
This is what we work towards and we ask you guys help towards this goal. We also value your feedback – so let us know your thoughts anytime on how the site can be better. It’s your site at the end of the day.
Republican said | November 18th 2009 @ 10:05am | Report comment
ps
Thankyou Freud!
You will find I criticise my code of choice quite regularly as well. This is quite a healthy thing to do. Levity is also healthy however being as thin skinned and insular as many here including your moderater appear to be, is NOT.
I can assure you I will not be commenting on any ‘roond’ ball threads again as is clearly your want however I will be scrutinisng some of the bloggers here, who frequent other threads in order to keep you all very honest indeed.
To continue would be akin to treading on egg shells so -
Good day and good luck!
Art Sapphire said | November 18th 2009 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Just go easy on me Republican when you do you scrutinizing.
Along with redb – I am in the great Roar pantheon of celebrated Essendon supporters.
When it comes to AFL – Essendon supporters know best
Ben of Phnom Penh said | November 18th 2009 @ 11:29am | Report comment
I’m finding it interesting as to how many people believe NZ had the easier route. For years upon years we had to same route which came to a crashing halt on the rocks of the play-off regardless of the confederation we faced. The All Whites played no-one significant in a competitive fixture for several years and then had to pull it all together against a side that had played together for a couple of years against tough opposition, defeating the likes of Saudi Arabia and Japan along the way.
In the end the All-Whites had to pull something special out of the bag to get through and now have no competitive fixtures remaining to strengthen the squad for the finals. If you want to be a competitive side then Asia provides the better route. Good luck to the Kiwi’s as they have a tough time ahead if they are to make a mark in South Africa.
It wasn’t easy, they just did a good job.
danny said | November 18th 2009 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
how soon we forget, eh?
cab711 said | November 18th 2009 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
Not to mention that alot of the players ply their trade in the HAL which will close early 2010. All Whites will have a hell of a job in getting all their players match fit for Seuth Eefrika.
The Bear said | November 18th 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Go easy on Zac, he has most likely a website business to run… it’s not perfect moderating KB, but at least it’s an attempt. A forum without a conscience is akin to game without a ref. FofF, some folks need reminding of the rules of “fair play”, yes? And KB if you get more yellow cards, try to cop it on the chin. At least folks like Republican are told to pull their heads in. Well done to the Kiwi’s… hope we get to smash them in South Africa this June!
K B said | November 18th 2009 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
Bear,
yes of course you are right, my apologies to Zac… The referees task is always a thankless one, but my concern was more about consistency, not about my yellow cards.. I understand his position.. Sorry Zac…
~~~~~~~
KB
The Bear said | November 18th 2009 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
KB, I think Zac’s comments above show that the Roar’s attempt at moderating is more a decision about keeping “on topic”. If this swings both ways, then it can only be of benefit to all users of this site. Perhaps concede some of these battles with the wums out there, especially if it means the custodians of this site can ultimately win “us” the war by not putting up with garbage posting like we all come to expect from such biased and aggressively negative roarers as the1andonlymaster and the republican. You and I both know that this has to be a time when respected sports “outlets” give Football the same respect and diligence that it affords all the other codes. Zac and co are giving us that, right now. That is a real change from the murky past (and even the recent past) and a real sign of the times. In fact it is almost ahead of it’s time. It can only get better, on the Roar, and in other media from now on, imo. I welcome the guiding hand from moderators from time to time, especially since my trips to this site have been discouraged in the past by posters acting like trolls on Football related blogs. And as for consistency, judge it from a longer perspective. Give Zac a few more seasons before we start taking it personally
Redb said | November 19th 2009 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Soccer should not get any more favourable treatment from the Roar’s administrators then any other sport. As Republican says there are many comments about AFL that as just as un-necessary and impede discussion.
In saying that, website moderation is a very difficult task and as none of us pay the bills for the Roar we must accept the umpires decision. As they say “you can please some of the people some of the time, but will never please all of the people all of the time”
Respect all round would be a change and many soccer posters as just as guilty as anyone.
Redb
AndyRoo said | November 19th 2009 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Respect all round would be a change and many soccer posters as just as guilty as anyone.
This is what I expect. In a thread that is just about AFL I don’t expect too see it randomly bashed as boring Aerial Ping pong… in a thread about West Sydney you could somewhat expect it but it wouldn’t belong in say the Port Power new jersey thread.
I would hope overly rude comments are deleted and that general code bashing stays in the “many” code war threads.
Redb said | November 19th 2009 @ 11:03am | Report comment
heres the thing, why is AFL Western Sydney any business of other codes? Unless it is directly mentioning them.
The ‘code war’ has been created by the media, AFL fans should be able to discuss Western Sydney’s prospects and development without drivel.
AndyRoo said | November 19th 2009 @ 11:25am | Report comment
Redb, I was just being practical. It’s not my plan to bag AFL in those threads but I can see those threads develop that way.
Even a nice throw away comment like Sheedys recent mention of “giving them a season pass as they arrive at the airport or docks” will likely turn into which game attracts more migrants.
I don’t support drivel and am happy for my drivel to get deleted. Debate is good, comments like “AFL is boring” I can live without. And it would be pretty out of place in an article of genuine interest say how West Sydney consessions would effect the rest of the league.
West Sydney is obvioulsy going to be involved in code war topics though… it’s one of those issues that will be written about by people from a non AFL background and used to stir the pot.
AndyRoo said | November 19th 2009 @ 11:38am | Report comment
“why do we need two rugby teams in melbourne” is one of those topics you woudl expect only personal attacks and profanity would be censored.
I am not expecting a lot of posts to dissapaear just the obvious “trolling for a reaction” ones.
Republican said | November 19th 2009 @ 9:39am | Report comment
That’s all very well Bear however there is NO consistency in this process across threads. This has been a witch hunt in my case and I am definately displeased with this ongoing scapegoating and slander in respect of my reputation as a contributor to this forum.
I have been exposed to rather deflamatory posts on Roar in respect of the Aust Footy, League and Union threads myself, that make mine pale in comparison.
So Zacs moderation of my fairly gentle comment is quite reactionary as far as i’m concerned and reflects the Soccer contributors and it’s thin skinned sub cuture thereof, compared with the rest of the Roar threads.
AndyRoo said | November 19th 2009 @ 10:08am | Report comment
Your comment wasn’t rude, but i think a few weeks ago we reached the critical mass of code war threads that really diminished the site. If it it was someone else without your credibility you wouldn’t have attracted so many responces.
Your post was pretty much “I don’t like football”. Their are plenty of code war topics that such debate is welcome in but it is very tiresome that in a week full of genuine news on the sporting front (World cup qualifiers and the Crawford report) that your coments come into this discussion.
It’s well known you hate Football and NZ (so this topic must be hell on earth for you) …although not sure if it is a hatred but more they are opposition towards your ultimate goal (A Canberra based AFL team).
I would expect if I wrote something like “I don’t like AFL” in any of todays topics other than the Sheedy one that it would be deleted. As it should.
AndyRoo said | November 19th 2009 @ 10:20am | Report comment
A case of not so much what you said but rather where you said it.
Republican said | November 19th 2009 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
mmmm, hate’s a little strong mate but yes I am on a bit of a crusade on a number of fronts and really, we all come to the table with our respective pregidous and crusades and I am no exception I realise. When it comes to Kiwis, all’s fare in love n war I reckon.
In this case I noted that the article made some negative referances to the All Whites victory v Bahrain so I took the liberty and indeed opportunity, to expound on this further, by suggesting that Soccer as a code, as with any code I might add, has it’s specific flaws. I sincerely meant this as constructive crit with a not so subtle twist, this being my style.
My personal sentiment towards Soccer was expressed, granted, which is consistent with all the other comments on respective threads going around. I actually believe Soccer to be a highly skilled game, i just can’t get inspired watching it despite my greatest efforts.
This has been an impulsive reaction on the part of the moderator as far as I am concerned and yes – more about where it was expressed as opposed to what was expressed.
I am certainly in agreeance with the potential for these threads to degenerate into a jingoistic induced code war so if that was the sole motive behind the moderators vetting, then so be it and my apologies to you also Zac.
Thankyou Andy, for your objectivity in this respect
AndyRoo said | November 19th 2009 @ 9:48pm | Report comment
For those thinking about NZ joining the AFC…Northern Mariana Islands just did that. They left Oceania recently and are now in the AFC.
jus de couchon said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:39am | Report comment
Why should soccer need to be big in Aus/NZ? Theyre already the biggest game in the world. I wont mention greed .