Comments on: A better system to determine the World Cup Qualifiers

By: dasilva

dasilva — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:44:04 +0000

I’m not too sure about the point you are making hiere

Cambodia currently plays about 5 competitive matches every 4 years now anyway (not including the South East Asian games). 3 in terms of qualification ot the AFC challenge cup and about 2 in the WCQ.

So really you are just taking away about 2 games from their itinerary. THis can be made up at the beginning of the 4 year cycle

I’m quite sure if there is turning the continental championship into a pseudo WCQ the AFC will restructure the qualifying process to make it more intensive to qualify to the Asia Cup and will make up the loss of games for Cambodia in the beginning.

I also think that turning the Asia cup in to a pseudo WCQ will actually increase the prestige of the Asia Cup more then anything else.

There will

By: dasilva

dasilva — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:06:08 +0000

Thanks Rock Lobster

I seriously doubt that Europeans are good enough to get 16 spots in the World Cup. If a side such as greece is poolled in the same group as Paraguay, Iran, Egypt etc. I will be betting that Greece will be the one that will miss out.

My suspicion is that I believe the smaller regions are better then suspected and would trouble all the sides.

It will be a great hypothetical scenario. how would European sides handling travelling to middle east in 40 degree heat to play against iraq, kuwait

How would they fair travelling to ecuador have to play in high altitude with little climatisation.

Europeans teams will have a far more difficult WCQ then they normally experience back in Europe. I suspect that if this system is in place it would show that 13 is about right or maybe less.

Remember this, no european sides has ever won the world cup outside europes.

When it comes to travelling and handling conditions, europeans are softies.

By: Nam Turk

Nam Turk — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:58:55 +0000

We have the Euro tournament for us all to celebrate the poor, little nations that miss out on the World Cup because of big bullies like New Zealand.

By: albe

albe — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:57:05 +0000

did u guys see the ‘WHITE POWER’ sign being held up at the NZ game on saturday? caught a quick glimpse in a crowd shot but they cut away pretty fast !!!
hope they don’t take that one with em to SA

By: jimbo

jimbo — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:45:29 +0000

I think Guus would be more valuable to our Quest for the Holy WC Grail as a central stiker – with Viduka unlikely and Aussie Scott unable to hit the side of a Dutch milking shed – Guus would be ideal.

Pimbo could still be the manager and Guus helps out Lucas with the tactics while he is on the field.
Pair up Guus the Great with Jesus and you’ve got a WC winning striking pair up front.

By: Shahsan

Shahsan — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:06:56 +0000

Good thinking, dasilva, but like all sensible ideas, you know you have no chance of it ever being implemented.
In an ideal world, there would be a system like yours — maybe not exactly like it, but something close — so that we have the best 32 teams in the world and not just 32 representatives from all the regions of the world.
If we do go with your system, i would go with top TWO from each of the four regions, for I think Asia/Oceania would be overrepresented with 4.
After that, let the cards fall where they may.
I suspect your main objectors would be the offcials of the lesser, underperforming regions, especially the likes of Jack Warner and the trough dwellers in the FIFA family, whose days at the World Cup party could be numbered.
Your other objectors would be the greenies, of course — imagine all the extra cross-continental flights!

By: dasilva

dasilva — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:54:12 +0000

Agree with that

Also because of that. Guus will not accept the job

Guus and Pim are probably friends

Guus wouldn’t backstab his mate wouldn’t he as this is what returning to the socceroos will mean.

By: Norm

Norm — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:33:58 +0000

Midfielder
I’m sure Pim would NOT be happy to hand over to Guus or anyone else.

By: Midfielder

Midfielder — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:26:48 +0000

KB & Norm

Just cannot see how Pim would be happy to hand over to Guus as Fozzie implies…and remember in ACTUAL CURRENT FACTS wants to replace the guy that qualified us top of our group, above Japan, with someone who failed to get Russia through after a playoff with Slovenia?

Must be Fozzia is in love..a song for Fozzie just for Guus ………. Fozzie Fozzie Fozzie’s in Love ( if you are old enough to remember this song change Tammy to Fozzie)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQqSdx-uljA

By: AndyRoo

AndyRoo — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:26:41 +0000

They don’t call him aussie gus for nothing….. like all good ausies he will forget his ruski friends and sign for Manche$ter city.

taught Lucas everything he noes and good on him

By: Midfielder

Midfielder — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:25:46 +0000

KB & Norm

Foozie wants Guus … http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/grab-guus-for-socceroos-foster-20091119-iokx.html

By: dasilva

dasilva — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:22:04 +0000

It’s times like this that make me wish we have this system so we can prove you wrong.

By: KB

KB — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:10:21 +0000

I agree, it could be tricky and totally misunderstood … I hope not, it would be a travesty

By: dasilva

dasilva — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:06:31 +0000

Fair enough

That your biggest issues is with cutting the number of confederation down. I admit that’s the biggest issue in doing this

In any case, one of the biggest influence that the fifa executive have is how many spots does a nation have at the world cup. This would take that decision out of hte hands of the fifa board and put it into the players on the pitch. Therefore the FIFA executive does actually lose some of its power. Honestly I don’t really see a big deal with merging.

However my main point of this article is more about the need of confederation playing each other in competitive matches rather then cutting the confederation down.

If you want an alternative system with no merger between north and south america
20 automatic qualifiers top 4 from the 5 confederation, .48 teams split in 8 groups of 6 in the 2nd round qualifiers (the Americans allocation will have 6 CONMEBOL and 6 CONCACAF).
The top team of each group qualifies. 2nd place team will play off.
There you go, each confederation guarantee 4 places at the world cup. The rest is up for grabs and the europeans will be really pissed with this arrangement as it’s quite likely they’ll get less spots for the world cup. no mergers between CONCACAF and CONMEBOL.

Is that better?

By: KB

KB — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:04:06 +0000

I agree with what you said about Europe… It has lost a lot of quality countries, someone at FIFA should review the real strengh of it…

By: Midfielder

Midfielder — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:40:46 +0000

Das KN & Norm

Having Guus back …..HHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMmmmmmmmm interesting and not a stuipd idea… maybe sack Arnold Out at the same time…

Das well tho out article and well written as always … I think it is just about right now with two exceptions… The winner in Oceania should go to the play offs in Asia… North Amercia get one less spot and Europe loose half a spot…

I think that Europe iis way over rated and outside the top 12 or so sides they are ordinary … they have 54 sides of which 30 are piss poor and another 12 or so not that good ….It’s about time someone had a long hard look at Europe …

By: midfield general

midfield general — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:27:04 +0000

I wonder how the nickname `All Whites’ will be received by South Africans….I know skin colour is the last thing Kiwis are implying here but may not be the case in some other places in the world. You can’t order a long black in the US, for example.

By: KB

KB — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:12:44 +0000

Das, I think you just answered your own thoughts … and that’s why it wouldn’t come to pass

By: KB

KB — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:03:38 +0000

In fact he would probably do it for nix (no pun intended)

By: KB

KB — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:56:07 +0000

Norm,
you have me now seriously thinking about Guss’s position… He’s a manager who doesn’t usually like to go over old ground…. However, if an offer came in from the NZ All Whites… That may definitely motivate him, and my bet would be he would take it up…

By: Norm

Norm — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:43:07 +0000

I thought you might be KB.

By: KB

KB — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:38:58 +0000

Good call Norm, I know that the CRSL Ladies Auxiliary would definitely be 100% behind it, and so would I …

~~~~~~~
KB

By: milhouse1

milhouse1 — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:30:39 +0000

croatia, ukraine russia and even ireland deserve to be at the world cup. expand the game. blah blah blah. if we really did have the best 32 teams in the world at the world cup you’d be lucky if 2 teams from africa and asia would be there. concacaf wouldnt be represented at all for mine. But thats just my opinion. I’d like o see a world cup with 25 teams from europe. then you could say you have the best teams playing. But that will never happen and ill keep dreaming!!!

By: Norm

Norm — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:08:16 +0000

Slightly off topic but does anyone think the FFA should be making any discrete enquires of Guus to see if he is interested in getting his old job back (which of course means sacking Pim)?

By: Rock lobster

Rock lobster — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:41:14 +0000

hey dasilva! first of all congrats for throwing it out there, u cop some flack but no-one can come up with a hair cut everyone likes, let alone the biggest sporting event in the world! at first i was sceptical but i see good points and bad! firstly, congrats to new zealand, they have ensured this will be the most truly WORLD cup. No-one can deny them their spot yet i find it strange everyone is focused on them so much when theyre not the lowest ranked team to qualify(nz-83, korea dpr-91). With a fair draw and some determination there is nothing to say they wont be competitive(for anyone who didnt see their qualifing matches, there defence was exceptional). in agreence with your format it would be great to see countrys that are lucky to play a decent side once a decade get more of an opportunity to play some quality teams. Even though they might get spanked, from my own experiences, i and my team learn 100x more getting beaten 10-0 than winning 10-0. no-one can deny the australians have increased 10 fold since playing better teams more often. how ever on the other hand, i think it will take time for some of the lower teams to catch up. looking at the rankings i would suggest the remaining 16 spots would be taken by mainly european and south american teams this world cup( lowest ranked european team to qualify is equal to the 3rd highest asian team to qualify)so even under your proposal, i would doubt the 5th place asian or african teams would qualify leaving 4 asian, 4 african,16 european and 8 south american teams(at a guess) which would no doubt have a huge impact on veiwing ratings and massively on team parafanalia(?) sold in countries who can make it under the current system but would fall short under your proposal. living in australia, 10 years ago people who said they liked soccer(football) were called poofters and alienated as weak or not strong enough to play afl. that all changed when we made the last world cup, now there is no shame in being a football player. while i think your idea is great on merit i think more teams from the smaller continents need to progress slightley more until your idea can be truly succsessful. mabey 2022? under any circumstances whats the point of getting to the world cup if you cant finish in the top 2 of 6 teams in a european group. if ya cant do that ya might as well stay at home anyway and let teams like nz, honduras or korea have a go, get a great experience and inspire a nation to back there team, have kids admire and aspire to be the next great player of there country and hopefully this game will become the true world game.

By: Freud of Football

Freud of Football — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:02:49 +0000

What you are doing is essentially going from 6 federations with their own qualification processes which generally filter in the best of that region to 4 federations.

Immediately you are taking power out of some very powerful people’s hands and putting more into other already very powerful hands.

You go from 6 to 4. Then we decides Western Hemisphere vs. Eastern and have just 2 supreme beings in football. Then no federations and we have a football dictatorship.

It’s hard enough as it is with 6 federation to keep the game free of corruption, why would we want to give less people more power?

It makes a lot more sense to spread the current power bases out further so rather than Jack Warner having his 30-odd votes to back Blatter to get re-elected (which include various minnow-nations who are forced to do what Warner wants) or the 40 or 50 odd Asian nations, who vote in a block as delegated by Bin Hammam so as to not rub those in their own federation the wrong way.

You will only increase the gap – both on and off the field – by diluting the power even more.

By: Ben of Phnom Penh

Ben of Phnom Penh — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:49:14 +0000

One issue for a system like this is the devaluation of the confederation cups, which are currently tournaments in their own right. This would reduce the number of competitive fixtures that smaller, developing football nations currently enjoy. Cambodia is a good example, it would halve the meagre amount of continental fixtures that it already has. That may not be an issue for Japanese or French television viewers however for Cambodians it is a real issue. Why should they not be able to turn up to the rough concrete benches of the national stadium in the blazing heat and cheer on their team with Don Quixote-esqe zeal? The Asian system usually means that they’re playing a Macau or a Turkmenistan in an early elimination round anyway.

The continental competitions are also about participation, not just winning. There are both entertainment and development factors that would suffer under the proposed system. The benefits of effectively halving the qualification rounds would have a direct and detrimental effect upon football development.

By: dasilva

dasilva — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:37:31 +0000

Well they all have to experience what the Socceroos have to experience everytime they play for Australia so I don’t have much sympathy to the club managers.

By: dasilva

dasilva — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:30:22 +0000

This is what I’m doing

I’m reducing the guaranteed europeans side from 13 sides to the world cup to 4.
I’m reducing the guaranteed american side of 8 to 4

Asia and Africa has nothing to complain about my system. They are both guaranteed 4 spots in the world cup. Which is not much dfference to what they already have. Now I’m giving them the opportunity to win more spots if they are good enough. IN this system England would be knocked out of WCQ two years ago

As noted by other posters on the board, It’s the europeans and the americans who have most to lose. It’s the europeans who have less to gain as well. This will be pretty much them gambling 7 world cup spots to win another 3 more which I don’t think they will win any more..

The smaller confederation have everything to gain by this.

By: dasilva

dasilva — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:17:33 +0000

I’m glad you are putting a lot of effort into this.

I believe the point b) is pertinent

If you are in a less well known confederation. You rarely have the opportunity to play against good sides in a competitive match therefore no opportunities to advance the rankings. Therefore the sides qualities will be underrepresented.

Australia was rank 87 in the world when we were in Oceania. We were no where that bad.

If this system get in place. The FIFA ranking will actually mean something