By Troy Chaplin
November 19th 2009 @ 5:00am
Related coverage
Sheedy’s appointment smart, but it’ll take time to work
Kevin Sheedy addresses the media, 2008 - Slattery Images
The appointment of Kevin Sheedy to the new Western Sydney franchise has most in the AFL world talking. Whether it is a good idea or not, it has definitely generated interest amongst the AFL community.
Sheedy has been a master for years now at what people believe he does best, and that’s coaching. But he is also a master at promoting the game of AFL itself.
Over the past few years, he has taken the game to the rest of the world, and his appointment is only going to generate more interest in the Sydney area.
It will not only help the new franchise itself but will also help the Sydney Swans gain more exposure in what is clearly a rugby and league dominated city.
Some people believe that this has been a publicity stunt from the AFL, but only time will tell.
It will be interesting to see how Sheedy goes in his first three years at the helm, how he builds his team, and what sort of style they play.
He has been out of the game now since 2007, and the game has changed rapidly.
St. Kilda and Geelong have created a style of game that has become attractive for fans to watch and one that is becoming very difficult to beat week-in-week-out. Their ability to create a solid defensive game, but also be able to combat it with their offensive game, has become the new standard within the league.
I am certain he has been watching with great interest and his brain would be ticking over about how beat it.
One of the problems with this is that the team he will be building is going to be a young and inexperienced one.
Sure, they will offer money to some high profile players within the AFL and this will entice them to make the move. And it will also entice fringe players at other clubs to move so that they can have a career themselves.
But this will not solve the problems that they will be faced with.
The AFL will want both Western Sydney and the Gold Coast to be successful in its early years, but I think this is going to be unrealistic.
The draft concessions that they will be receiving are going to be great in four to five years time when these kids develop. But at the moment, with such young lists going into their first year in the competition, it is going to be difficult to get wins on the board.
It is going to take time and having someone like Sheedy at the helm will help to continue to grow participation numbers in the Sydney area.
But it will also help these young footballers understand the game and the requirements needed to be an AFL footballer.
This project is going to take time, and I don’t think we will see either of the teams challenge for finals for years to come.
The AFL will need to be extremely cautious with how these teams perform, as poor performance will only drive people away from the games.
Troy Chaplin is a current player with the Port Adelaide Power and a new columnist for The Roar.
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(28)
Redb said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:27am | Report comment
Good points. There will definitely need to be a mix of young talent and experienced players or else they’ll resemble a TAC Cup team and get constantly bodied off the ball.
Stil time though, GC in 2011, WS 2012.
By the way, a great new jumper for Port Adelaide. Sometimes the simple designs are the best.
Redb
Simmo said | November 19th 2009 @ 10:52am | Report comment
“By the way, a great new jumper for Port Adelaide. Sometimes the simple designs are the best.”
damn straight. Designers get all creative with patterns that look okay close up but are horrendous when viewed from a long distance, like on TV.
The Melbourne AFL Clubs have simple, bold patterns that look good in the flesh and on telly. Some of the Sydney NRL clubs are as ugly as sin.
Corey said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:10am | Report comment
good point, but even the simple design of South Sydney looks like a Christmas tree- I like the Dragons (the most recognised sports jersey in Australia a recent poll found), even their away strip is classy, just red with 3 white adidas stripes.
Jay said | November 19th 2009 @ 11:13am | Report comment
As someone who lives in western sydney, in particular the hills shire, who is in close proximity to Blacktown – I can tell you that not many local people know, or care about who Kevin Sheedy is. AFL has some exposure in the western surburs (we played it occasionally in school during PE classes in the late 90s) which is contrary to popular belief. To provide you non-Sydney people with a demographic view of sydney.. here it is:
1. Sydney Swans are popular if they are winning. No-one can really tell what the difference between entertaining and boring AFL is as Sydney in 05-06 were known for being a stop-start, defensive, tackling side (which is generally bad I presume in the AFL). Most locals support the Swans and an NRL team..
2. Football is popular among the ethnics – Italian, Greeks, Turkish etc people, but widely played by younger children.. who like tennis, tend to pick a rugby code in high school or cease playing. The EPL is popular here, but no one really cares about the A-League.
3. Rugby Union may be the game they play in heaven, but in Sydney it is primarily an elitist sport. It has, however, a large number of Polynesian participation, who are either given scholarships to the elite private schools or play socially otherwise. The trend in recent years is taht Polynesians play both RU and RL and because RL has more opportunities within Australia, they tend to stick with the latter.
4. Rugby Leage is probably the dominant winter code in sydney, but not nearly as popular as the AFL is in Melbourne. Western Sydney may be a ‘hearland’ of the sport, but there its not totally entrenched within the culture here. There is room for something else (i.e. the AFL) if it is happy being the 2nd choice.. On that note, I think the South Coast, Hunter Region, QLD and NSW Country would be the heart-land of league. It has a good set-up here however, with the National Catholic School competitions, Toyata Cups, SG Ball, Western Sydney Academy. I think they all ready outspend what the AFLs budget in this region.
5. A majority of the expats to Sydney do not live in the western surburs. They tend to live inner west or eastern surburbs. The fan-base that the AFL will need to attract will need to be locals who generally don’t know the rules of the game, let alone being ready for a team in the national competition.
6. Cricket – is generally king out here. Most kids play is, there real competition is between the winter codes. AFL may get some leeway into partipation here (all ready has to a certain extent – look at Lenny Hays, Kerion Jack) but will need to keep the kids in the game when they are 16-18. I dont know how much contracts at that age are worth, but if they have the coin.. im sure kids will stick to it, in partilcular the Polynesians, who play RL because they may get $500 per game by NRL feeder clubs when they are in high school.
Michael C said | November 19th 2009 @ 11:45am | Report comment
the AFL-NSW needs to continue building relationships with Cricket NSW. It’s been happening and will continue. Footy and cricket work great together…..normally…..except for those kids who eventually have to decide b/w one or the other if they really want to have a crack at elite professional careers.
I think rookie listed players get a minimum $35K, and senior listed players a minimum $62.7K (2009) rising to $64.7K (2010), plus extra if they play senior matches.
See schedule B on page 69 of the CBA 2007-2011.
Redb said | November 19th 2009 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
good summary Jay.
re point 4. I think the AFL would do well to be number 2 or 3 in WS. A perfectly good outcome.
Michael C said | November 19th 2009 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
I was thinking that too,
Given that AFL is seemingly so far behind already – - the numbers are pretty reasonable on a state wide basis in each of NSW and QLD. (i.e. such that Tassie has fallen behind both states, and a half reasonable increase in the next few years will see a real challenge for 3rd state status for the AFL – - on absolute numbers)>
So, if that is achieved whilst being number 2 or 3, who cares really – - it’s not about de-throning the NRL in it’s own citadel. It’s about the bigger national picture.
Simmo said | November 19th 2009 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
found the new Marquee player
Terry Henry, great hand skills close to goal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ZIP-uaSvU
Firestarter Bob said | November 19th 2009 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
Billy Graham once tried to convert Sydney.
Simmo said | November 19th 2009 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
and managed a record crowd in Melbourne. Evangelicals are all the same :rollseyes:
Gweeds said | November 19th 2009 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
Please don’t take this as yet another boring ‘code war’ comment (heaven help us we need another one like a hole in the head) but I was struck by the language of the article.
The AFL will want both Western Sydney and the Gold Coast to be successful in its early years, but I think this is going to be unrealistic….
It is going to take time and having someone like Sheedy at the helm will help to continue to grow participation numbers in the Sydney area.
But it will also help these young footballers understand the game and the requirements needed to be an AFL footballer.
This project is going to take time, and I don’t think we will see either of the teams challenge for finals for years to come.
And I was also struck by the way that many commenting in this article were in agreement that ‘it will take time’ ‘It will build up in the long run etc’.
Shift the mouse and click on the ‘football’ (aka soccer) section, and we have (or have had) plenty of articles about the ‘demise of the A-League’ ‘A-League in crisis’ etc. etc. With plenty of comments also expressing the view that the A-League is in terminal decline and not without plenty of Schadenfreude in some quarters.
Any talk about ‘taking time’? or ‘getting to understand the game?’ Not really. But if you think about it the A-League is like establishing ten ‘Western Sydneys’ in one go. And without the safety net of an entrenched competition which has become part of the mainstream culture and supported by the mainstream media such as the AFL.
I wonder whether there is a mindset that soccer (I am happy to call it that) is perceived as a foreign code, not really part of the Australian culture and therefore always needing to prove itself and with a belief that not being a ‘major’ code is always perilously close to failing, and with plenty of people just waiting to do that.
When the Sydney Swans were close to bankruptcy and a man and his dog would venture to Carrara to see the Brisbane Bears in the early days of these teams it was seen as a normal process of developing the sport in unfamiliar territory. The AFL Western Sydney team will be seen in the same light.
Whilst having Gold Coast United having some difficulties is proof that Australians are really not into soccer, watch the EPL anyway and the whole thing will end up in disaster.
Of course some will say that it is not only Gold Coast experiencing difficulties, but as I said before the A-League is trying to establish a new competition, let alone just a new team.
OK – close parenthesis. Just to let you know that I love AFL and has been a Carlton supporter for the past 21 years. I was observing whether there was a bit of different standards being applied between football and soccer.
Regarding Western Sydney and the Gold Coast AFL teams I reckon that Western Sydney will be a hard slog and will have to be propped up by the AFL for some time.
Gold Coast will be a success. Mainly because there are plenty of ex-Victorians that love the game.
Redb said | November 19th 2009 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
Gweeds,
I think your comment about the A League having ten expansion teams is exactly right.
What is strange is the lack of engagment of core soccer fans (the expats of AFL in NSW/QLD) to provide some nourishment in the formative years.
GC17 will be assisted by this factor, WS will not – much tougher task. But as you say the strength of the rest of the comp helps. WS is a generational investment by the AFL.
We have seen teams that would normallly fold like Swans first decade and a half in Sydney, Melb Storm propped up for ten years so it comes down to the financial resources and stamina to see it through.
Why is it different with the A League?, perhaps due to past failures but I think it is also due to unrealistic expectations that post the 2006 WC qualification a sesimic change in the mindset of sports fans in Australia had been brought about with a perceived large scale conversion to soccer. Bit of both methinks.
Redb
p.s. There has been plenty of commentary that the AFL will fail in Western Sydney.
Lazza said | November 19th 2009 @ 2:45pm | Report comment
The difference is that Soccer fans have plenty of options from the Socceroos to international leagues and competitions. Again, we are comparing the popularity of Soccer with the Aleague and completely ignoring the massive popularity of the Socceroos. You might as well say that Cricket is not a popular sport because no-one watches domestic Cricket.
Now if you’re an AFL fan in NSW/QLD and you’re favourite sport is only shown at midnight and then only the local team and nothing else, then you might be very motivated to go and see a game. That’s why the AFL gets decent crowds but abysmal TV ratings up there. Soccer fans have plenty of options, AFL fans don’t.
Michael C said | November 19th 2009 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
not quite.
” But if you think about it the A-League is like establishing ten ‘Western Sydneys’ in one go”
After all – in all (other than Townsville??) markets – the A-League is simply a re-organisation of the old NSL presence. The AFL has NEVER had a presence in Western Sydney.
re ‘understanding’ the game – - again, soccer is the ‘World Game’, it’s pretty well understood by perhaps 60% of migrants to this country. Not so the AFL. AFL has to ‘convert’ or at least ‘educate’ the masses (or enough of the masses), whereas soccer – seemingly, has to draw the soccer lovers line of sight a little lower, away from Europe and more to the local game. Challenges each – - but, pretty distinct.
The issue for soccer is that it’s been battling away in the Australian market place for a long, long time.
The concerns for the HAL are pretty well founded – it’s peaked already, 2 years ago in V3. Key indicators are trending the wrong way presently. Even the Sydney/NSW heartland is anything but a strenght and QLD is very much on the nose.
Compared to the AFL – it’s heartland is pretty solid, and it’s metrics very solid.
I don’t really think they’re different standards other than ……. that they SHOULD be.
Marshall said | November 19th 2009 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
Sheedy signing was such a great move and a great fit. He deserves more credit for stepping up at his age and taking up this challenge.
Gweeds said | November 19th 2009 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
Why is different with the A League?, perhaps due to past failures but I think it is also due to unrealistic expectations that post the 2006 WC qualification a sesimic change in the mindset of sports fans in Australia had been brought about with a perceived large scale conversion to soccer. Bit of both methinks.
I agree 100% with you RedB.
Lazza said | November 19th 2009 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
Only fear ridden AFL and NRL fans thought there was going to be seismic shift. Soccer fans were always realistic and compared to the old NSL we are happy enough with the ALeague.
We have, arguably, the most important National team with big crowds and TV ratings. So big that the Government has put all the WQ qualifiers on the FTA list for the next contract. Soccer has the participation numbers other sports can only dream about and it’s the only truly national Football code in this country. According to the Sweeney report it’s only just behind AFL and Cricket as the sport that interests most Australians.
The problem with AFL fans is, by your own admission, you don’t watch anything else besides AFL? That gives you a warped sense of the sporting culture in Australia.
Michael C said | November 19th 2009 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
in fairness though – there’s been plenty of soccer folk peddling their belief of knocking down the citadel and taking over.
THat’s what Redb, Pip and myself have been working on providing a dose of realisty and reason to for sometime now (since the ‘Flog’ days). Alas……KB is still going full bore total domination!!
Redb said | November 20th 2009 @ 7:21am | Report comment
you have no clue as usual.
Gweeds said | November 19th 2009 @ 4:03pm | Report comment
Anyway, I would have preferred a younger coach than Sheedy for Western Sydney.
Marshall said | November 19th 2009 @ 11:22pm | Report comment
Hird seems the logical followup to Sheedy but I don’t think Hird would have the media persona neededto generate the press needed in the Sydney market
Redb said | November 20th 2009 @ 7:20am | Report comment
Can’t have Hird he is destined to coach Essendon.
Anthony said | November 20th 2009 @ 7:27am | Report comment
Soccer in Australia is similar to the USA. Lots of kids playing it, but this does not equate to big crowds for MLS. The NFL is like the AFL, & is identified with America, & most people are interested in their local team. Whereas soccer is seen as an overseas sport. There’s a bit of that in Australia, too. But because of our love of sport we will support the socceroos, & will attend their games.
The new AFL clubs in WS & GC will be well supported, & attendances will exceed A-league from the start. They will soon match NRL, but never rival Lions/Swans attendances. It is hard for soccer/league to understand why huge numbers attend AFL, but it is only going to get better. Witness the last 5 years.
Simmo said | November 20th 2009 @ 9:06am | Report comment
what’s happened in the last 5 years?
Anthony said | November 20th 2009 @ 9:20am | Report comment
In past 5 years AFL attendances & membership have continued to break all records. Attendances down slightly this year – but still over 36,000 average. 2009 Membership again over 500,000 & an all-time record. Carlton, C/wood & Ess already announcing they want 40,000 members next year. It will be a long time before NRL & A-league have these figures.
Norm said | November 20th 2009 @ 9:25am | Report comment
AFL will keep growing its crowds……NRL & A-league will remain as they are – maybe even decline. Come back in 5 years & we can continue the discussion.
gazz said | November 20th 2009 @ 5:33pm | Report comment
sheeds will as good a job as anyone else (available) coaching-wise and he’ll do a fine job promotion wise. good appointment. BUT he’s getting on and outdated, they need someone to kinda become the take-over-man. john longmire?
Corey said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:20am | Report comment
The statement that Kevin Sheedy has “taken the game to the rest of the world,” what a load- who else has a professional competition, NO ONE!!! AFL is an Aussie sport, and Kevin Sheedy hasn’t won a premiership in a decade now (albeit, that’s more than me), this may be a publicity stunt but if AFL has learnt anything about Sydneysiders it should be that they are loyal on the streets, but when it comes to ticket sales are only loyal when they are winning more than they are losing. Cannot believe AFL is expanding into Western Sydney when Hobart would have been a winner straight away. The war between AFL and RL is only existing b/c both codes believe the other is the enemy (same for union and league), yet they should be working together- advertising each other- we have an obesity epidemic and what better to reverse that trend than with regular exercise. In London the Harlequins union team owns the league and Leeds League team owns the union team. They work together, not destroy each other.