The new AFL clubs in WS & GC will be well supported, & attendances will exceed A-league from the start. They will soon match NRL, but never rival Lions/Swans attendances. It is hard for soccer/league to understand why huge numbers attend AFL, but it is only going to get better. Witness the last 5 years.

THat’s what Redb, Pip and myself have been working on providing a dose of realisty and reason to for sometime now (since the ‘Flog’ days). Alas……KB is still going full bore total domination!!

We have, arguably, the most important National team with big crowds and TV ratings. So big that the Government has put all the WQ qualifiers on the FTA list for the next contract. Soccer has the participation numbers other sports can only dream about and it’s the only truly national Football code in this country. According to the Sweeney report it’s only just behind AFL and Cricket as the sport that interests most Australians.

The problem with AFL fans is, by your own admission, you don’t watch anything else besides AFL? That gives you a warped sense of the sporting culture in Australia.

Now if you’re an AFL fan in NSW/QLD and you’re favourite sport is only shown at midnight and then only the local team and nothing else, then you might be very motivated to go and see a game. That’s why the AFL gets decent crowds but abysmal TV ratings up there. Soccer fans have plenty of options, AFL fans don’t.

I agree 100% with you RedB.

” But if you think about it the A-League is like establishing ten ‘Western Sydneys’ in one go”

After all – in all (other than Townsville??) markets – the A-League is simply a re-organisation of the old NSL presence. The AFL has NEVER had a presence in Western Sydney.

re ‘understanding’ the game – - again, soccer is the ‘World Game’, it’s pretty well understood by perhaps 60% of migrants to this country. Not so the AFL. AFL has to ‘convert’ or at least ‘educate’ the masses (or enough of the masses), whereas soccer – seemingly, has to draw the soccer lovers line of sight a little lower, away from Europe and more to the local game. Challenges each – - but, pretty distinct.

The issue for soccer is that it’s been battling away in the Australian market place for a long, long time.

The concerns for the HAL are pretty well founded – it’s peaked already, 2 years ago in V3. Key indicators are trending the wrong way presently. Even the Sydney/NSW heartland is anything but a strenght and QLD is very much on the nose.

Compared to the AFL – it’s heartland is pretty solid, and it’s metrics very solid.

I don’t really think they’re different standards other than ……. that they SHOULD be.

I think your comment about the A League having ten expansion teams is exactly right.

What is strange is the lack of engagment of core soccer fans (the expats of AFL in NSW/QLD) to provide some nourishment in the formative years.

GC17 will be assisted by this factor, WS will not – much tougher task. But as you say the strength of the rest of the comp helps. WS is a generational investment by the AFL.

We have seen teams that would normallly fold like Swans first decade and a half in Sydney, Melb Storm propped up for ten years so it comes down to the financial resources and stamina to see it through.

Why is it different with the A League?, perhaps due to past failures but I think it is also due to unrealistic expectations that post the 2006 WC qualification a sesimic change in the mindset of sports fans in Australia had been brought about with a perceived large scale conversion to soccer. Bit of both methinks.

Redb

p.s. There has been plenty of commentary that the AFL will fail in Western Sydney.

Given that AFL is seemingly so far behind already – - the numbers are pretty reasonable on a state wide basis in each of NSW and QLD. (i.e. such that Tassie has fallen behind both states, and a half reasonable increase in the next few years will see a real challenge for 3rd state status for the AFL – - on absolute numbers)>

So, if that is achieved whilst being number 2 or 3, who cares really – - it’s not about de-throning the NRL in it’s own citadel. It’s about the bigger national picture.

The AFL will want both Western Sydney and the Gold Coast to be successful in its early years, but I think this is going to be unrealistic….

This project is going to take time, and I don’t think we will see either of the teams challenge for finals for years to come.

And I was also struck by the way that many commenting in this article were in agreement that ‘it will take time’ ‘It will build up in the long run etc’.

Shift the mouse and click on the ‘football’ (aka soccer) section, and we have (or have had) plenty of articles about the ‘demise of the A-League’ ‘A-League in crisis’ etc. etc. With plenty of comments also expressing the view that the A-League is in terminal decline and not without plenty of Schadenfreude in some quarters.

Any talk about ‘taking time’? or ‘getting to understand the game?’ Not really. But if you think about it the A-League is like establishing ten ‘Western Sydneys’ in one go. And without the safety net of an entrenched competition which has become part of the mainstream culture and supported by the mainstream media such as the AFL.

I wonder whether there is a mindset that soccer (I am happy to call it that) is perceived as a foreign code, not really part of the Australian culture and therefore always needing to prove itself and with a belief that not being a ‘major’ code is always perilously close to failing, and with plenty of people just waiting to do that.

When the Sydney Swans were close to bankruptcy and a man and his dog would venture to Carrara to see the Brisbane Bears in the early days of these teams it was seen as a normal process of developing the sport in unfamiliar territory. The AFL Western Sydney team will be seen in the same light.

Whilst having Gold Coast United having some difficulties is proof that Australians are really not into soccer, watch the EPL anyway and the whole thing will end up in disaster.

Of course some will say that it is not only Gold Coast experiencing difficulties, but as I said before the A-League is trying to establish a new competition, let alone just a new team.

OK – close parenthesis. Just to let you know that I love AFL and has been a Carlton supporter for the past 21 years. I was observing whether there was a bit of different standards being applied between football and soccer.

Regarding Western Sydney and the Gold Coast AFL teams I reckon that Western Sydney will be a hard slog and will have to be propped up by the AFL for some time.

Gold Coast will be a success. Mainly because there are plenty of ex-Victorians that love the game.

re point 4. I think the AFL would do well to be number 2 or 3 in WS. A perfectly good outcome.

Terry Henry, great hand skills close to goal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ZIP-uaSvU

I think rookie listed players get a minimum $35K, and senior listed players a minimum $62.7K (2009) rising to $64.7K (2010), plus extra if they play senior matches.

See schedule B on page 69 of the CBA 2007-2011.

1. Sydney Swans are popular if they are winning. No-one can really tell what the difference between entertaining and boring AFL is as Sydney in 05-06 were known for being a stop-start, defensive, tackling side (which is generally bad I presume in the AFL). Most locals support the Swans and an NRL team..

2. Football is popular among the ethnics – Italian, Greeks, Turkish etc people, but widely played by younger children.. who like tennis, tend to pick a rugby code in high school or cease playing. The EPL is popular here, but no one really cares about the A-League.

3. Rugby Union may be the game they play in heaven, but in Sydney it is primarily an elitist sport. It has, however, a large number of Polynesian participation, who are either given scholarships to the elite private schools or play socially otherwise. The trend in recent years is taht Polynesians play both RU and RL and because RL has more opportunities within Australia, they tend to stick with the latter.

4. Rugby Leage is probably the dominant winter code in sydney, but not nearly as popular as the AFL is in Melbourne. Western Sydney may be a ‘hearland’ of the sport, but there its not totally entrenched within the culture here. There is room for something else (i.e. the AFL) if it is happy being the 2nd choice.. On that note, I think the South Coast, Hunter Region, QLD and NSW Country would be the heart-land of league. It has a good set-up here however, with the National Catholic School competitions, Toyata Cups, SG Ball, Western Sydney Academy. I think they all ready outspend what the AFLs budget in this region.

5. A majority of the expats to Sydney do not live in the western surburs. They tend to live inner west or eastern surburbs. The fan-base that the AFL will need to attract will need to be locals who generally don’t know the rules of the game, let alone being ready for a team in the national competition.

6. Cricket – is generally king out here. Most kids play is, there real competition is between the winter codes. AFL may get some leeway into partipation here (all ready has to a certain extent – look at Lenny Hays, Kerion Jack) but will need to keep the kids in the game when they are 16-18. I dont know how much contracts at that age are worth, but if they have the coin.. im sure kids will stick to it, in partilcular the Polynesians, who play RL because they may get $500 per game by NRL feeder clubs when they are in high school.

damn straight. Designers get all creative with patterns that look okay close up but are horrendous when viewed from a long distance, like on TV.

The Melbourne AFL Clubs have simple, bold patterns that look good in the flesh and on telly. Some of the Sydney NRL clubs are as ugly as sin.

Stil time though, GC in 2011, WS 2012.

By the way, a great new jumper for Port Adelaide. Sometimes the simple designs are the best.

Redb