By Junior -
November 19th 2009 @ 3:00am
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Why do we need two rugby teams in Melbourne?
This was reportedly the response when some Melburnians were asked how they felt when their city was awarded the latest Super rugby franchise. Not a great shock, it must be said.
The majority of “sports-lovers” in Melbourne can’t tell a scrum from a tackle. It’s only mildly surprising that they don’t stand during a lineout waiting for the national anthem to be piped in.
As much on-field success as Melbourne Storm has had in the NRL since it rose out of nothing, there is still no material grassroots support or decent junior league.
They are mostly supplanted Queenslanders who like playing and living in Melbourne because “it keeps them out of the spotlight”.
Granted rugby is played in the private schools in Melbourne from where a sprinkling of Wallabies have emerged (doubtless with ex-pat fathers), but will the new franchise be the success that John O’Neil keeps trumpeting?
Short answer is no.
Rugby in Australia is gasping for air. There are problems at all levels and the ARU believes the solution is to create another franchise to give the game a national reach.
It’s like having a child to rescue a flagging relationship. It ain’t gonna change nothin’.
The game is struggling to garner meaningful interest in its so-called home states. How many people would be devastated if all of a sudden the Waratahs and the Reds ceased to exist?
Not momentarily inconvenienced, but seriously devastated?
The dwindling rugby public in the eastern states would simply watch the NRL instead and perhaps secretly wonder why they didn’t think of this earlier.
As for the good burghers of Perth, if the Western Force vanished overnight it wouldn’t be long before they found something interesting to fill the time on a Saturday night.
Even in Perth.
The passion and loyalty demonstrated by NRL and AFL supporters is in stark contrast to this. We have seen the furore in the past when Super League threatened rugby league clubs’ survival. Souths were reinstated after an unprecedented groundswell of community support.
In the AFL, the Western Bulldogs and North Melbourne, the two smallest Victorian clubs in the league, have each fought to the death for survival. Again on the back of a dedicated and passionate supporter base.
You can’t buy passion Mr O’Neil. Put simply, people have to care.
If rugby is to maintain its niche status in Australia, there are serious issues that need to be addressed before a new franchise is even contemplated.
The list is not short but the ARU would do well to start with intense lobbying to overhaul the laws of the game. Even the rugby scribes agree that these antiquated decrees are choking the game.
A final thought.
The image on the John Eales medal depicts one of Australia’s most formidable and respected Wallaby captains. He isn’t soaring to win a lineout or diving to score a try or crunching an opponent in a tackle.
No, he’s on one knee lining up a place kick.
The game needs a Melbourne franchise about as much as it needs a five-point penalty goal.
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Blacky said | November 19th 2009 @ 3:24am | Report comment
This story line is getting old.
Melbourne has the 5th franchise and all those not happy about need to step back and deal with it.
The reason league has never worked in Melbourne is because it doesn’t have a base. Union does have a base in Melbourne to build on (as you have pointed out). In fact, Melbourne should have been given the 4th franchise ahead of Perth because of this existing support base. There are also many expat English, South African and Kiwis living in Melbourne whom I sure would go to the rugby matches, maybe not to support the home team but just to see some rugby. My father as an example moved to Victoria from Tweed Heads three years ago and has been complaining about not being able to see any rugby since he moved there. Now there is going to be a franchise he is already rubbing his hands in delight waiting to go and watch a match.
And to state that waratah and reds supportes wouldn’t be devastated if these clubs no longer existed shows that you have no idea about rugby in Australia besides what you read on news websites. There is a deep history behind these codes with a deep support base – larger than any of the other Australian rugby franchises. I for one am a waratahs supporter and I cannot stand rugby league as with many other rugby supporters.
It would be a cold day in hell before I turn to league for my sporting fix. I would rather pick my eyes out with a desert spoon or worse still………watch soccer.
MattRusty said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:04am | Report comment
I agree with some of your points Blacky – I have clients in NSW who love the Waratahs and my friends in Canberra are very passionate about the Brumbies. Junior, put your crystal ball away – you have no idea if the Super 15 team will work in Melbourne, no one does; but Melbourne has an amazing thirst for sport – that’s why I moved here; if 8 AFL clubs can survive, so can 2 football, 1 league and 1 union. One last point I disagree with you on Blacky, the Melbourne Storm may not have had a base 11 years ago when the club started, but it does now – just as passionate as any club. I attended the end of season ball – there were a lot of fans there, and the board of the Storm have some big plans in stall for the future. So play nicely kids, there’s plenty of room in the playground for all of us!
Cattledog said | November 19th 2009 @ 3:55am | Report comment
Blacky, agree with most of your post. Junior shows little understanding of the rugby ethos and although I would love to see a franchise hit the Gold Coast (it will in time), I really believe Melbourne will make a fist of it. It does have the base and because sport is such a part of the Melbourne culture (after all, that’s the only reason the Storm has weathered it) rugby wll grow, perhaps faster than we think, down there.
Whilst I’m not a great league supporter, I would try my best not to miss the State of Origin, if only for the passion shown. Wish Rugby had something similar! And as a Queenslander, like you and the Tahs, I would hate to see the Reds vanish…in fact I think the opposite will infact be the case!!
Picking your eyes out with a desert spoon, I can live with that, watching soccer…Blacky, that’s unethical!!
PastHisBest said | November 19th 2009 @ 6:14am | Report comment
Even the state of origin is a poor watered down version of what it used to be though CD.
Cattledog said | November 19th 2009 @ 4:09am | Report comment
Missed the 10 minute edit, but meant to comment that although Junior IMO misses the mark, he writes an enjoyable post worthy of debate.
Paley said | November 19th 2009 @ 4:26am | Report comment
I have been to see the Melbourne rugby team play when they have been in England, they hammered Saints. Hopefully when Melbourne play Leeds next year Leeds will give a good account of themselves.
crashy said | November 19th 2009 @ 5:28am | Report comment
nick-off Paley you grub. You seriously have issues you mungo
Paley said | November 19th 2009 @ 5:45am | Report comment
There’s no need to be abusive. If you believe my post is incorrect please state where. I have looked at it again and can see nothing wrong with it.
Matt said | November 19th 2009 @ 6:13am | Report comment
When did the Rebels play Northampton or Leeds?
Paley said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:03am | Report comment
Rebels? Who are they?
Nick P-G said | November 19th 2009 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
Perhaps he means Axemen on a tour?
His post doesn’t seem correct but I don’t see any humour in it either.
If it isn’t true he is merely trolling.
macavity said | November 19th 2009 @ 6:17am | Report comment
this website produces a wild over-inflation of Rugby’s importance.
Oh and Rugby fans hating RL is very much like the uglier, egotistical older brother hating his handsome younger brother who scores all the chicks.
Face it, most who play or have an interest in Rugby in Australia….. also love their league. It is only a diminishing band of self-important code warriors who hate the “mungos”…. and it would seem pretty much all of them frequent this site.
Justin said | November 19th 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Complete rubbish mac. Most of my mates love rugby but the only league we watch is SOO and the GF (and thats just an excuse to have a beer).
Siva Samoa said | November 19th 2009 @ 8:50am | Report comment
thanks for that one eye comments mac but have visited any rugby league forums lately ? its like going into a kkk, neo-nazi, black panthers, al qaeda or hamas website. they hate rugby with passion over there and they have their own version of rugby history and why rugby league isn’t popular. its funny.
katzilla said | November 19th 2009 @ 6:18pm | Report comment
‘Oh and Rugby fans hating RL is very much like the uglier, egotistical older brother hating his handsome younger brother who scores all the chicks’
Its easy to score chicks when shes only 17, drunk and there’s 10 of you.
EDIT: Btw im one of those people who like to watch the league too. Your bait was just too tempting for me to pass up.
Dan said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
There are plenty of League supporters who hate union Macavity. In fact I’d go so far as to say it’s the died in the wool league fans that are the more vitriolic of the two (ever hear Mark Guyer talk about Rugby? It’s far from flattering).
I personally love both games almost equally. I generally feel that a great game of union is about as good as it gets, being even better than a great league match, but that it is evened out by the fact that a bad game of league is never as bad as a bad union match… just my opinion.
PastHisBest said | November 19th 2009 @ 6:18am | Report comment
“The dwindling rugby public in the eastern states would simply watch the NRL instead and perhaps secretly wonder why they didn’t think of this earlier.”
This is either naive or stupid or both. ‘Junior’ what? Troll? Apologist?
I wouldn’t watch league…it’s like watching paint dry, over and over and over and over and over…talk about dumbing something down for the masses! It’s a game for 2 year-olds played by adults.
Siva Samoa said | November 19th 2009 @ 6:46am | Report comment
Problems in all level in Queensland NSW. There are more people now playing the game in all level in both states and the pacitipation and register numbers are up every year. Do your homework. Many Victorians knows who the Wallabies are compare to the rugby international team.
Chris said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:11am | Report comment
Ratings and attendances are down.
“Many Victorians knows who the Wallabies are compare to the rugby international team.”
- Right… I’ll take your word for it then.
Siva Samoa said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:51am | Report comment
You expect that when your teams are winning including the Wallabies. Stop been a one eye mate. The Wallabies brand is well known in Australia. Are you saying most Victorian think the Wallabies are a socer team ?
Siva Samoa said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:57am | Report comment
i must be still sleeping. i meant to say that fans won’t watch a teams that are not playing well including the wallabies.
Brian said | November 19th 2009 @ 9:01am | Report comment
Rugby intelligence
mitzter said | November 19th 2009 @ 6:58am | Report comment
macavity agree with you, i also believe most rugby fans are league fans as well just prefer the more intricacies in union.
The start of this article made me think of when i was in uni 10 years ago in canberra (which had a good mix of new south welshman and victorians alike) and i overheard some victorians say “God the nsw people are ignorant! why do they call the aussie rules club ‘the afl club’, we don’t call the rugby club ‘the nrl club’”
I had an awesome chuckle (there was only a union club at this time)
Firestarter Bob said | November 19th 2009 @ 8:44am | Report comment
Because the AFL is itself pushing that the sport be called ‘AFL” http://www.playafl.com.au/
Chris said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:05am | Report comment
A lot of people would be devestated if the Brumbies died, but most Queenslanders, and Vaucluse/Double Bay (yes I realise the Waratahs apparently represent NSW – but beyond these two suburbs its pretty limited) residents couldn’t care less about their respective teams.
Onceinawhile said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:35am | Report comment
You’re funny, Vaucluse/Double Bay= Rugby strongholds…………. LOL
rugbyfuture said | November 19th 2009 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
hunters hill and the north of sydney spreading from the parramatta river in the south to hornsby in the north and eastwood to manly going west from east thanks very much
Paul J said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:14am | Report comment
If the NRL can negotiate a TV rights deal that forces the networks to show NRL games during prime time in Melbourne (the same way the AFL did for AFL games in NSW/Qld) then the NRL will start to grow a lot quicker.
If the ARU can do the same for Melbourne Rebel games it will survive and become profitable.
Michael C said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:58am | Report comment
Paul J -
given that the Wallabies no longer make Melbourne TV before about 11.55pm (I couldn’t say midnight straight out!!) – - – I wouldn’t hold my breath on Super 15s going live to air in Melbourne town.
Not UNTIL the Rebels were a raging success first…
however – granted, digital TV extra channels might change all that.
MarkR said | November 19th 2009 @ 10:08am | Report comment
Michael C – “given that the Wallabies no longer make Melbourne TV before about 11.55pm “. I’ve been here over 20 yrs & that’s the way it’s ALWAYS been. I got FOX when it first came out as it was the only way to ensure you got to see AB games
Michael C said | November 19th 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
It might only have been around 2003 and the IRBWC, but, there were certainly RU games on fta ch.7 into MElbourne at reasonable times……I’ve seen both Gordon Bray and Bruce McAveney commentating RU tests…..but, I’d be buggered to remember if it was ONLY the WC matches??? (in so many ways….2003 seemed, other than the final result, the highpoint of the ARU).
MarkR said | November 19th 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
MichaelC – you’re probably right, for ‘03 Vics got behind the game even though they were played at tesltra Dome. & there’s normally decent coverage at WC time3. I went to a few games & spent most of the game explaining the rules to my friends, by the time the game was finished they were quite keen on rugby but of course there were no more games after that.
20 yrs ago to find out the score you had to read teh results page if teh Wallabies lost (there’d be a small column if they won, esp against NZ) so what tehy need is
1 – Decent staduim – go it
2 – Affordable tickets – will have to see but they should be competetive (hopefully)
3 – Decent grass roots – this will take time but is achievable if done properly. Auskick costs something like $50 as AFL get $40/kid & cap teh amount teh club can add to the top. Other sports don’t do this so you get teh soccer equivalent costing $130-150 as the guy doing it is running a very nice little business (one I took my lad to had his 12 yr old son & his sons friend as coaches with 40 kids. So $5k per group for approx. 100hrs work & he had a number of groups going at different times & days. You could probably turn it into a ncie little earner.
If rugby adopts the AFL model it will enable the kids to try it without costing the parents an arm & a leg. Maybe not an issue for the private school kids %-) but to expand you want to make it available for everyone.
Redb said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:19am | Report comment
“The majority of “sports-lovers” in Melbourne can’t tell a scrum from a tackle”
You people really need to get over this preciousness about rugby league and rugby union.
Leagies in particular are the first to find all sorts of brain dead names for AFL or Australian football but twitch like ticks when anyone from Melbourne has the gall to call rugby league, rugby.
Its called the National ‘Rugby’ League (NRL). The game is just a deriative of rugby like Rugby 7’s get over it.
Redb
Paley said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:27am | Report comment
Rugby League, as you say, is rugby. I am not sure why some australians struggle with that fact.
PastHisBest said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:44am | Report comment
A derivation of. We use different terms because they are indeed vastly different games despite the common ancestry.
Paley said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:58am | Report comment
Rugby League and Rugby Union. Acceptable enough terms. Neither can claim sole right to the word “rugby”
Siva Samoa said | November 19th 2009 @ 8:02am | Report comment
trying telling that to the rugby world cup organisers.
Paley said | November 19th 2009 @ 8:25am | Report comment
The IRB? They had a policy against professional rugby for 100 years and banned anybody who played professional rugby. It would very hypocritical of them now to say that for that 100 years there was no professional rugby.
sheek said | November 19th 2009 @ 8:58am | Report comment
The reason the William Webb Ellis fable was invented & persevered with, was to give union legitimacy to calling itself rugby, over league.
The truth is, both league & union exhibit characteristics from 19th century rugby as it went through its numerous evolutions.
Looking at it another way, rugby can proudly claim itself to be the father of union, league, American football, Canadian football, & at a stretch, even Australian football (which became the black sheep of the family!).
The point is, league has as much right to call itself rugby, as does union.
As for the IRB, that’s a fanciful organisation not to be taken seriously, most definitely not by its own constituencies!
LT80 said | November 19th 2009 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Did anyone else notice that during the RL 4 nations, the English commentators sometimes referred to the game as just “rugby”?
Paley said | November 19th 2009 @ 8:30am | Report comment
It’s not that unusual here. Rugby where I live is rugby league yet I doubt anybody here would deny that union is also rugby.
rugbyfuture said | November 19th 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
much like osoccer can claim legit that it is the proper football rugby union can claim legitimacy to the right of being proper rugby, even this website calls rugby rugby and league league
MyGeneration said | November 19th 2009 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
many would dispute soccer’s claim to be “proper” football because football includes all the codes, including the rugbys and association football. And this website does have a rugby union bias (and I don’t mean that in a bad way). So, most people on this website call rugby union simply rugby. Paley’s (valid) point is that most people where he comes from refer to rugby league as simply rugby. Let’s not start talking about legitimacy or we’ll get the lawyers in.
mitzter said | November 19th 2009 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
soccer can’t claim they are sole rights to the word football as all football games come from prevous football games which were not the same as soccer (much like theory of evolution and common ancestors) so in that regard yes both league and union could claim to be called ‘rugby’, i just find it confusing when paley or steffy call league rugby, it’s just common lexicon.
Dan said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
In support of Mygen and Mitzter, might I also point out that etymologically “football” has nothing to do with the contact of the ball with a players feet during play. It is in reality derived from the fact that all yard team games played ON your feet were considered “football” and the games of the lower classes. This distinguished it from the games of the nobles like polo, which were played on horseback (they didn’t like to get their boots dirty). So association rather emphatically has absolutely NO right to claim sole use of the word “football”. Especially when one considers that Australian Rules Football was technically codified before it.
oikee said | November 21st 2009 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
You will never get anywhere with trying to claim the word Rugby, well not now anyhow, because rugby calls their game in America “rugby super league”. ??? And they really wonder why leaguies dont have time for the other code. Yes we are KKK, Mungos El-qaeda, call us what you want, wont change the fact we cant wear a bar of ya. And rugby Union will never be big in OZ, because the game is elite-ist. So it does not really involve all the public, same as Sth Africa, Same as France, same as England, etc, etc, etc. Wales, Argie, Etc, etc, etc.
Dont mention facts, its very hurtful.
Michael C said | November 19th 2009 @ 8:03am | Report comment
The point of this article with which I agree is very relevant. To Victorians – there’s two Rugbies that are both Rugby and the distinction is far from enough to label them as such distinct football codes as soccer and Australian Football.
I know to Rugby diehards, that supporting BOTH Rugby U and Rugby L is considered a varied sporting diet.
Newsbreak – - – - it ins’t.
This is a bit too much like two different ‘boxing federations’ bringing their ‘world heavyweight’ title fights to Melbourne at the same time. Which one is the ‘real one’…..or is niether……at some point, everyone just says’Meh!, who cares’.
Dan said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
The two rugby codes are cosmetically similar, but extremely different in substance. It’s a bit like saying Gaelic Football and AFL may as well just be one sport. These two federations have managed to come up with a compromise game, and it is still highly contentious as to how fair the rules are. League and Union are now so different that a compromise game is so difficult that, despite several attempts, it has been impossible to formulate a set of rules to set up a potentially lucrative “compromise code match” between the likes of the Kangaroos and Wallabies.
Ziggy the God said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:52am | Report comment
“The image on the John Eales medal depicts one of Australia’s most formidable and respected Wallaby captains. He isn’t soaring to win a lineout or diving to score a try or crunching an opponent in a tackle.
No, he’s on one knee lining up a place kick.”
That line sums up why Union has gone backwards in this country.
All this new franchise will do is drain the the already bare coffers of the ARU, because the only potential lifeline they have is getting the games on FTA, and that is not going to happen when Mash re-runs and Futurama belt them in the Pay Tv ratings.
This is a bed that Union HQ have made for themselves, and they can blame nobody else.
IMHO, this team will be an unmitigated disaster, and I give the side less than 5 years before they are moved to the Central Coast (NRL HQ take note and bring back the Bears). At least they will last longer that the ARC Rebels, which is something.
Anyone got a transcript of O’Neill talking about killing off league in Australia?
Siva Samoa said | November 19th 2009 @ 8:39am | Report comment
I suppose world cup rugby league champions new zealand is already six feet under then.
Rodney McDonell said | November 19th 2009 @ 8:57am | Report comment
Junior, i disagree with your statement:
“there is still no material grassroots support or decent junior league”
I’m not sure what you mean by decent, perhaps my definition is a little weaker than yours, but perhaps you should find out just how many people are laying the sport in victoria now.
The junior competition is doing very well. Last year two senoir clubs where appointed to the Metro competition and an entire second division was instigated, with the newly established werribi bears taking out the GF.
The Sunrayser Rugby League was started with four clubs in the states North West with the idea that the clubs will be back for a competition proper in 2010.
It’s no where near the strength of the NSW or QLD, but that wouldn’t be my yard stick. Victoria in my mind has or is close to passing WA as the 3rd state in line with amount of rugby league interest/knowledge/participation.
I think the competition in Victoria especially the juniors is very much decent.
Michael C said | November 19th 2009 @ 9:11am | Report comment
that’s Werribee, not Werribi
and
Sunraysia, not Sunrayser,
funny thing is, there’s NRL advocates so willing to lay claim to Victoria now…..who still dispute that AFL has a worthwhile presence in NSW and QLD?!?!?!?
Clarko said | November 19th 2009 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Sheek: “Looking at it another way, rugby can proudly claim itself to be the father of union, league, American football, Canadian football, & at a stretch, even Australian football (which became the black sheep of the family!).”
So AFL is really “Australian rugby”. mmmmm.
Allen said | November 19th 2009 @ 10:15am | Report comment
From a Melbournian perspective i think the rebels should do alright for themselves and make another boutique niche in the market like victory and strom.
Union is definitely more popular than league in inner melbourne due to private school influence. When you combine this with Melbourne’s cosmopolitan mix of british, kiwis, irish even africans etc I think the rebels will produce a big enough core supporter group to make it work.
I think league definitely has a stigma in Melbourne that union doesn’t have. Similar to soccer, Melbournians see Union as a more worldly, and i guess cooler, game than League. Personally I would never go to a storm game by choice, but I could definitely see myself heading to a few rebels games each season. I can’t see them winning over the hearts and minds of the AFL obsessed mainstream out in the suburbs, but If they can tap into the more adaptable inner Melbourne ‘yuppie’ crowd like Melbourne Victory has to some extent, then they have the potential to be successful.
macavity said | November 19th 2009 @ 4:59pm | Report comment
wouldn’t go to the storm, but would go to the rebels, because you think penalty goals are cool?
katzilla said | November 19th 2009 @ 6:26pm | Report comment
‘wouldn’t go to the storm, but would go to the rebels, because you think penalty goals are cool?’
I think he explained why. Something about Worldly game, much like Soccer but not to that extent of course.
Bill Baxter said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:13pm | Report comment
Allen must have been forced to go to a Storm game, since he never went by choice!!!.
I don’t believe that the Rebels will be any sort of threat to the Storm. 8000 plus members and growing are unlikely to change their allegiance and desert the Storm. A few may watch both codes until they tire of seeing more penalties scored than tries.
Union has not grasped in recent years that scoring tries is the main objective. Bad refereeing and the constant reforming of scrums has not helped Union’s cause at all.
Paul J said | November 19th 2009 @ 11:24am | Report comment
With existing and future TV broadcast deals the AFL and NRL can afford to wait as long as it takes with Western Sydney and the Storm .
Will there be more pressure on the ARU to make the Rebels profitable if they are not as cashed up as the other codes?
Republican said | November 19th 2009 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
I reckon Union will survive the test of time in Melbourne while League and the Storm will eventually pull up stumps there. This will not be entirley due to a lack of support but rather a thinning of, in an era that ruthlessly demands a far higher ‘bottom line’ yield.
This ironically, will see Melbourne bucking the trend as the only demographic supporting Union over League in this country.
Cheers
AndyS said | November 19th 2009 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
Not quite – WA is already in that situation. Whether it will continue if/when the NRL re-introduces a team to Perth, time will tell.
Allen said | November 19th 2009 @ 4:32pm | Report comment
I tend to agree with this. To explain it in terms of economic theory I think Leauge is more of a direct substitute for AFL in australia. Both sports are domestically focused rather than internationally focused, have similar working class roots, play at the same time over winter etc. Generally people only want/need one or the other, up north it is generally league, down south it is generally AFL.
Union on the other hand has a few points of difference, international competition, its general upper class ethos and traditions etc. that means that it can be more compatible along side AFL in the Southern cities of Melbourne, Perth and even Adelaide (i.e. success of the Sevens comp).
Firestarter Bob said | November 19th 2009 @ 4:59pm | Report comment
I was thinking similarly. But the problem with the theory is “so what’s new?” If rugby in Victoria has had that “compatability” with Aussie rules where has it been for the past 100 years?
On http://www.colonialrugby.com.au/victoria.htm it shows many attempts in the 19th century to get rugby going in Melbourne but they all failed. Rugby has been there ever since but only real rugby tragics in Melbourne would even know. Fitzsimmons in the Herald regularly says the rugby game in Melbourne was big in the 1930s but why didn’t it kick on?
oikee said | November 21st 2009 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
Does it take you more than 5 minutes to make these stories up Repub, tell you what, if melbourne storm crowds dont average 15 thousand next year, i will personal watch at least 1 union game next year.
your on.
Matt S said | November 19th 2009 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
Republican, this sounds like your wishful thinking than most.
With the ARL/Storm & Vic government already pumping in $23 million over the last 5 years into rugby league development in Victoria, and further announcements of internationals for the new stadium, I cannot see the Storm falling over. The next step will be Vic born & bred players making the grade for the Storm. Already some prominant AFL juniors have switched codes and see their futures as league players.
Do you really think the ARU will have the funds to fight league on that front? People now days don’t care about image and if the private schools are fawning over their sport (it isn’t helping QLD Reds), it is about entertainment, the product on the field, etc something the Storm have and will have in place for years to come. The Storm will be the success story of Non AFL sport in Victoria.
I will not forget speaking with Li Cunxin at a Storm function, an articulate artist & stockbroker, at the league, enjoying his new found sporting passion (pretty damn good considering AFL was shoved in his face) along with many other high flyers in the Melbourne Corporate world.
You can rely on historical bias and thinking at your peril but the Storm have structures most sporting franchises in this country would dream of. The only thing missing was a stadium to attract new audiences and finally reward those loyal corporates that put up with substandard hospitality facilities.
Tifosi said | November 19th 2009 @ 4:53pm | Report comment
The Melbourne Victory are already the success story of Non AFL Victoria.
Brett McKay said | November 19th 2009 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
Junior, I will commend you for at least having enough confidence in your thoughts to share them….
Republican said | November 19th 2009 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
Matt S
We are yet to see a local Vic League product me thinks and how long have the Storm been in Melbourne?
Union already boast a number of Vic bred players many in the Brumby Academy and there are those who have played at Super and international level in recent years.
This has been without any elite based entity so imagine what may be achieved there once the new Franchise gains momentum. Then the ACT had a strong Union pedigree pre Super days after which time it all went pear shaped for them, so elite franchises don’t necessarily correlate with healthy grassroots, which lets the Storm of the hook in that respect.
I am only suggesting that one Rugby brand will have to give in an already saturated corporate market, so perhaps it will be Union. I agree that League has the upper hand by a country mile on all counts in Oz but ‘Victoria’ is a quirky place, so let’s wait and see what transpires shall we.
By the way, it’s not wishful thinking on my part as I am not partial to either code.
Cheers
macavity said | November 19th 2009 @ 4:57pm | Report comment
11 of the premiership winning Storm Toyota Cup team are Victorians.
wont be long until you see some in first grade, perhaps next year.
TammyS said | November 19th 2009 @ 5:38pm | Report comment
and especially with their feeder team finally playing out of melbourne instead of the central coast next year
Andrew said | November 19th 2009 @ 5:52pm | Report comment
Starting off a base of zero, are you surprised it’s taken this long to see the fruits of their labour take this long to develop? Once the Storm have a few guys from Vic in the starting lineup, I am sure they will market them very well.
PJ said | November 20th 2009 @ 3:31am | Report comment
absolute tripe. it takes a generation for juniors to come through, storm have been around 11 years, so juniors are oon the way baby. btw how many sydney juniors do the swans have after 25 years?
oikee said | November 21st 2009 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
You really dont know the power of Billy the Kid, even grand-mothers love him in melbourne, and why shouldn’t they.? Who is this great union player who is going to completely take Melbourne by storm. ? Billy is down their opening up ME banks in Melbourne, and Gilette, one of the bigger world companies are supporters of rugby league. Union’s days at the private sector are nearly over, other sponsers who follow rugby league have a better code to support, and they at least know where the future lies with T/V audience.
Ai Rui Sheng said | November 19th 2009 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
Having actually played rugby in Melbourne, I am delighted that the game will get a boost. I am distressed by the chauvinistic nature of Oz rugby fans though.
AFL, League and rugby are all great games. I watch them all. My preference was for international rugby but the present, (Stefan Jewns?), rules are a problem That there was no fair trial of the ELV’s anywhere, but particularly down here in the NH, means that few can talk about them with any authority. It is time to review the total package and see if it does not work.
It is clear that there is an unsound basis for all arguments between the various codes. There is room for everyone. Get over it and enjoy the best of each.
Love ShaghaiDoc
oikee said | November 21st 2009 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
Unfortunately , life is to short to enjoy all codes, so most aussies just pick the best 1 or 2, and thats why half follow league, the other half AFL.
But yes, nice try , getting all us enemies to come together as 1. Wont happen, you only have to read this blog.
Cattledog said | November 19th 2009 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
You’re right, Shag. Whilst I would consider myself a diehard rugby supporter, I enjoyed the AFL GF this year between Saints and Geelong (I lived near Geelong for a few years) and also enjoy some league, especially the SOO. Must say I have never formed a liking for soccer, although I believe it teaches youngsters some great skills they can use when they grow up and transfer to one of the real footy codes!! There’s still a lot who don’t appear to grow up!
Anyway, if we could have some influence in moving the IRB to the SH, we may see some forward thinking and real development from that organisation. Oh well, will brace for Pothale et al!!
ohtani's jacket said | November 19th 2009 @ 7:00pm | Report comment
“The image on the John Eales medal depicts one of Australia’s most formidable and respected Wallaby captains. He isn’t soaring to win a lineout or diving to score a try or crunching an opponent in a tackle.
No, he’s on one knee lining up a place kick.”
Well, what’s happening on the NRL trophy? Looks like a bit of how’s ya father to me.
oikee said | November 21st 2009 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
Flattery will get you know-where.
Its 2 guys who looked like they have rolled in the mud, now if that ain’t classic rugby, ? what is.
Kevin Taylor said | November 19th 2009 @ 10:44pm | Report comment
One consideration not brought up is the impact of devopment on Rugby League for Victoria.Not only did the Storm win the National Under 20 Comp – yes NATIONAL under 20 comp they also won the SG BALL under 18’s- massive effort.I believe there is room for all games, but when you consider the bombs thrown at Rugby League this year – both within and outside it is a remarkable product..Once rugby league comes under one banner(Not seperate entities eg NRL,ARL,QRL,NSWRL ,CRL etc – look out.Pre Super leauge the game was going gang busters.Rugby Union in my opinion simply has to change it s rules to gain TV interest.To Paley, I hope Leeds can beat The Storm – your input is valid and not incorrect.Suggest some people realise there is a World Club Challenge in Rugby League too.
Billo said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:09am | Report comment
A lot of rugby people, led by Peter Fitzsimons of the SMH, seem to think that the Storm will roll over and/or re-locate to the Central Coast when the Rebels are established in 2011.
That is wishful thinking in the extreme.
Looking at this admittedly from afar (London, in my case) it is obvious to me that the Storm have done a remarkably good job off the field in the last ten years, particularly in terms of putting together various age-group teams that have performed very well, regardless of how many players were actually born in Melbourne.
They have built up a definite supporter base in the city, and the move to the new stadium next year will mean they will have close to the best stadium in the NRL for watching league.
The Rebels will join the Super 15 the following year, but they will have a lot of ground to make up on the Storm at a time when there seems to be a collective loss of confidence about rugby in Australia, and even in England, to judge by some of the articles I’ve read in the English press recently.
The high end of town may play rugby in their private schools in Melbourne, and there may be some New Zealanders in town, but I’m not sure those factors will guarantee a big enough audience in themselves.
danwighton said | November 20th 2009 @ 2:12am | Report comment
Half of the storm’s SG ball (under 18s) squad are born and bred Victorians (17/30), and they have a couple of young guys that have represented Victoria in AFL but have chosen League and are now part of the Storm development squad (they also received offers from Sydney NRL clubs). In 2009 both the Storm under 20s and under 18s made the grand finals, with the storm winning the u-20s. The Storm are building, and shouldnt be threatened by the rebels. Also, Digby was a Victorian RL rep as well as RU before he chose Union.
I think, especially with the use of the new stadium, both can help each other to promote the Rugbies in Vic. [I had a conversation with a Victorian friend of mine in 2006 who thought State of Origin was Rugby Union v Rugby League - so clearly more needs to be done! - not only to build reputations but differentiate].
On a national level, RU cant compete with RL player payments with the medium-tier standard of player – the success of the Toyota cup and the fact there is 16 NRL teams and only 5 RU teams allow medium quality players and developing players to receive more money and support. The better players is where the concern lies – RU blows league out of the water with the money available overseas for the better players.
Justin said | November 20th 2009 @ 11:08am | Report comment
“On a national level, RU cant compete with RL player payments with the medium-tier standard of player ”
Got any figures on this one please?
oikee said | November 21st 2009 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
He just gave you the figures, their are 16 rugby league clubs that fork out 5 million under a cap, so thats 80 million dollars for rugby league players to spread around in OZ, now if you add up what they pay jumiors with talent, some wages are as high as 150 thouand for 16 year olds. Now work how much talent is in the under 20 teams and under 18’s , 16’s, etc, and you have a figure.
As for union, you have 30 players being paid millions playing international rugby, and 5 teams, with very few highly paid stars, so your figure would be around 30 million for the 5 teams, if that. And then your grass roots are private schools, so they dont pay them much at all do they. ? Rugby league AFL and Soccer are the games that grow the nation, not rugby union, who only cater to top end. Thats why you always see guys in Suits in the front rows at rugby, not a pretty look for the commoners. I prefer to see roosters fans on tele, i am sure most people do, dressed in chook outfit and no teeth.
Working Class Rugger said | November 21st 2009 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
Billo
I cannot understand why certain sectors of Rugby fans want to see the Storm disappear from Melbourne. I couldn’t care less. It’s a waste of time and energy really. I’m more concerned about seeing the team being established and developing good young local talent.
Gary said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:35am | Report comment
“The dwindling rugby public in the eastern states would simply watch the NRL instead and perhaps secretly wonder why they didn’t think of this earlier. ”
The problem is in the Eastern States. Poor administration by the (Eastern) Australian Rugby Union and the NSW and Qld Rugby Unions resting on their laurels as the supposed “home states” and a major competitor in League.
Meanwhile in the boom state Rugby is exploding. The clubs are struggling to find places for the number of new recruits. There has always been Rugby in Western Australia, it is just that it has been ignored by the ARU. There would be a lot of devastated people if the Western Force vanished.
Now the decision about Melbourne has been made how about you stop knocking and support the Vics to get established like we in the West are doing. After all there is nothing better than beating the Vics at anything.
danwighton said | November 20th 2009 @ 2:15am | Report comment
The Force seem to be doing well everywhere – except on the field, but that will come.
I know there were some promising RL Perth Reds juniors coming through before the team’s demise, so there has always been potential for non-AFL development in Perth. Rugby in WA is also helped along by its high percentage of English and South Africans.
TommyM said | November 20th 2009 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
Umm… Beating all 3 other Aussie teams last season? Consistently finishing mid table after the first season in their infancy?
Working Class Rugger said | November 21st 2009 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
Danwighton
The Force also have an excellent commitment to development and a kit program that has helped the growth of the back in the West. They even have a partnership with Central TAFE to train development officer’s. Everyone who has proclaimed weakness in the Force have done so fron afar and haven’t seen the organisation in action. In terms of RL development in WA the Reds could do alot worse than copying the Force’s methods.
MarkH said | November 20th 2009 @ 11:03am | Report comment
As a Victorian, I will be down to watch our new S15s side. I hope to be able to watch the Blues at Princes Park and then Vic play Rugby on the same day/night. The Storm has done well over the years but I think that with all the Kiwis / UK / SA / Euros in town these days, their might be a bit more comp for them. Much more for the S15 side to attract.
Getting back to the question about two Rugby sides in Melb, I for one have been a Union fan for years. I have watched League with intrest but I prefer the confontation of Union. The fact that South African and NZ sides will be playing in Melb regularly is fantastic. Back that up with more international games…cant wait.
Roscoe said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
Are you guys aware that Victoria- home of the Rebels- have FOUR players in the Aussie schools team about to tour the UK? WA and ACT have one each. We have a strong junior development program here. Ioane, Llealefano, Horua, Palavi, Tala Gray are all learnt their rugby in Victoria. And don’t forget McKenzie, Heath and Fitter from not so long ago. The game will only get stronger. The Storm already cost the NRL millions each year- see today’s Australian. Union is played at club and schools- forget this “private school” rubbish. Anyone see the Vic 16s in Sydney recently. Maybe 5 or 6 privtae school boys, the rest are club boys- including my son.
oikee said | November 21st 2009 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
Roscoe, you seem new to the site, and glad you love your game, but please, when your sitting in a half empty stadium at the rebels games, and you can hear the roar of the crowd at storm games from home, try hard not to become a blogger on here complaining about the rules of union,
We have enough on here already. Cheers mate. Enjoy your rugger.