Comments on: Why do we need two rugby teams in Melbourne?

By: Working Class Rugger

Working Class Rugger — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:21:14 +0000

Billo

I cannot understand why certain sectors of Rugby fans want to see the Storm disappear from Melbourne. I couldn’t care less. It’s a waste of time and energy really. I’m more concerned about seeing the team being established and developing good young local talent.

By: Working Class Rugger

Working Class Rugger — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:16:55 +0000

Danwighton

The Force also have an excellent commitment to development and a kit program that has helped the growth of the back in the West. They even have a partnership with Central TAFE to train development officer’s. Everyone who has proclaimed weakness in the Force have done so fron afar and haven’t seen the organisation in action. In terms of RL development in WA the Reds could do alot worse than copying the Force’s methods.

By: oikee

oikee — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:09:31 +0000

Roscoe, you seem new to the site, and glad you love your game, but please, when your sitting in a half empty stadium at the rebels games, and you can hear the roar of the crowd at storm games from home, try hard not to become a blogger on here complaining about the rules of union, We have enough on here already. Cheers mate. Enjoy your rugger.

By: oikee

oikee — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:00:09 +0000

He just gave you the figures, their are 16 rugby league clubs that fork out 5 million under a cap, so thats 80 million dollars for rugby league players to spread around in OZ, now if you add up what they pay jumiors with talent, some wages are as high as 150 thouand for 16 year olds. Now work how much talent is in the under 20 teams and under 18′s , 16′s, etc, and you have a figure.
As for union, you have 30 players being paid millions playing international rugby, and 5 teams, with very few highly paid stars, so your figure would be around 30 million for the 5 teams, if that. And then your grass roots are private schools, so they dont pay them much at all do they. ? Rugby league AFL and Soccer are the games that grow the nation, not rugby union, who only cater to top end. Thats why you always see guys in Suits in the front rows at rugby, not a pretty look for the commoners. I prefer to see roosters fans on tele, i am sure most people do, dressed in chook outfit and no teeth.

By: oikee

oikee — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:46:23 +0000

Flattery will get you know-where. Its 2 guys who looked like they have rolled in the mud, now if that ain’t classic rugby, ? what is.

By: oikee

oikee — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:43:14 +0000

Unfortunately , life is to short to enjoy all codes, so most aussies just pick the best 1 or 2, and thats why half follow league, the other half AFL. But yes, nice try , getting all us enemies to come together as 1. Wont happen, you only have to read this blog.

By: oikee

oikee — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:38:18 +0000

You really dont know the power of Billy the Kid, even grand-mothers love him in melbourne, and why shouldn’t they.? Who is this great union player who is going to completely take Melbourne by storm. ? Billy is down their opening up ME banks in Melbourne, and Gilette, one of the bigger world companies are supporters of rugby league. Union’s days at the private sector are nearly over, other sponsers who follow rugby league have a better code to support, and they at least know where the future lies with T/V audience.

By: oikee

oikee — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:31:02 +0000

Does it take you more than 5 minutes to make these stories up Repub, tell you what, if melbourne storm crowds dont average 15 thousand next year, i will personal watch at least 1 union game next year. your on.

By: oikee

oikee — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:22:35 +0000

You will never get anywhere with trying to claim the word Rugby, well not now anyhow, because rugby calls their game in America “rugby super league”. ??? And they really wonder why leaguies dont have time for the other code. Yes we are KKK, Mungos El-qaeda, call us what you want, wont change the fact we cant wear a bar of ya. And rugby Union will never be big in OZ, because the game is elite-ist. So it does not really involve all the public, same as Sth Africa, Same as France, same as England, etc, etc, etc. Wales, Argie, Etc, etc, etc.
Dont mention facts, its very hurtful.

By: TommyM

TommyM — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:40:45 +0000

Umm… Beating all 3 other Aussie teams last season? Consistently finishing mid table after the first season in their infancy?

By: Roscoe

Roscoe — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 03:50:54 +0000

Are you guys aware that Victoria- home of the Rebels- have FOUR players in the Aussie schools team about to tour the UK? WA and ACT have one each. We have a strong junior development program here. Ioane, Llealefano, Horua, Palavi, Tala Gray are all learnt their rugby in Victoria. And don’t forget McKenzie, Heath and Fitter from not so long ago. The game will only get stronger. The Storm already cost the NRL millions each year- see today’s Australian. Union is played at club and schools- forget this “private school” rubbish. Anyone see the Vic 16s in Sydney recently. Maybe 5 or 6 privtae school boys, the rest are club boys- including my son.

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:55:54 +0000

The two rugby codes are cosmetically similar, but extremely different in substance. It’s a bit like saying Gaelic Football and AFL may as well just be one sport. These two federations have managed to come up with a compromise game, and it is still highly contentious as to how fair the rules are. League and Union are now so different that a compromise game is so difficult that, despite several attempts, it has been impossible to formulate a set of rules to set up a potentially lucrative “compromise code match” between the likes of the Kangaroos and Wallabies.

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:51:31 +0000

In support of Mygen and Mitzter, might I also point out that etymologically “football” has nothing to do with the contact of the ball with a players feet during play. It is in reality derived from the fact that all yard team games played ON your feet were considered “football” and the games of the lower classes. This distinguished it from the games of the nobles like polo, which were played on horseback (they didn’t like to get their boots dirty). So association rather emphatically has absolutely NO right to claim sole use of the word “football”. Especially when one considers that Australian Rules Football was technically codified before it.

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:44:57 +0000

There are plenty of League supporters who hate union Macavity. In fact I’d go so far as to say it’s the died in the wool league fans that are the more vitriolic of the two (ever hear Mark Guyer talk about Rugby? It’s far from flattering).
I personally love both games almost equally. I generally feel that a great game of union is about as good as it gets, being even better than a great league match, but that it is evened out by the fact that a bad game of league is never as bad as a bad union match… just my opinion.

By: Justin

Justin — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:08:52 +0000

“On a national level, RU cant compete with RL player payments with the medium-tier standard of player ”

Got any figures on this one please?

By: MarkH

MarkH — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:03:38 +0000

As a Victorian, I will be down to watch our new S15s side. I hope to be able to watch the Blues at Princes Park and then Vic play Rugby on the same day/night. The Storm has done well over the years but I think that with all the Kiwis / UK / SA / Euros in town these days, their might be a bit more comp for them. Much more for the S15 side to attract.

Getting back to the question about two Rugby sides in Melb, I for one have been a Union fan for years. I have watched League with intrest but I prefer the confontation of Union. The fact that South African and NZ sides will be playing in Melb regularly is fantastic. Back that up with more international games…cant wait.

By: PJ

PJ — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:31:04 +0000

absolute tripe. it takes a generation for juniors to come through, storm have been around 11 years, so juniors are oon the way baby. btw how many sydney juniors do the swans have after 25 years?

By: danwighton

danwighton — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:15:54 +0000

The Force seem to be doing well everywhere – except on the field, but that will come.

I know there were some promising RL Perth Reds juniors coming through before the team’s demise, so there has always been potential for non-AFL development in Perth. Rugby in WA is also helped along by its high percentage of English and South Africans.

By: danwighton

danwighton — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:12:36 +0000

Half of the storm’s SG ball (under 18s) squad are born and bred Victorians (17/30), and they have a couple of young guys that have represented Victoria in AFL but have chosen League and are now part of the Storm development squad (they also received offers from Sydney NRL clubs). In 2009 both the Storm under 20s and under 18s made the grand finals, with the storm winning the u-20s. The Storm are building, and shouldnt be threatened by the rebels. Also, Digby was a Victorian RL rep as well as RU before he chose Union.

I think, especially with the use of the new stadium, both can help each other to promote the Rugbies in Vic. [I had a conversation with a Victorian friend of mine in 2006 who thought State of Origin was Rugby Union v Rugby League - so clearly more needs to be done! - not only to build reputations but differentiate].

On a national level, RU cant compete with RL player payments with the medium-tier standard of player – the success of the Toyota cup and the fact there is 16 NRL teams and only 5 RU teams allow medium quality players and developing players to receive more money and support. The better players is where the concern lies – RU blows league out of the water with the money available overseas for the better players.

By: Gary

Gary — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:35:01 +0000

“The dwindling rugby public in the eastern states would simply watch the NRL instead and perhaps secretly wonder why they didn’t think of this earlier. ”

The problem is in the Eastern States. Poor administration by the (Eastern) Australian Rugby Union and the NSW and Qld Rugby Unions resting on their laurels as the supposed “home states” and a major competitor in League.

Meanwhile in the boom state Rugby is exploding. The clubs are struggling to find places for the number of new recruits. There has always been Rugby in Western Australia, it is just that it has been ignored by the ARU. There would be a lot of devastated people if the Western Force vanished.

Now the decision about Melbourne has been made how about you stop knocking and support the Vics to get established like we in the West are doing. After all there is nothing better than beating the Vics at anything.

By: Billo

Billo — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:09:47 +0000

A lot of rugby people, led by Peter Fitzsimons of the SMH, seem to think that the Storm will roll over and/or re-locate to the Central Coast when the Rebels are established in 2011.
That is wishful thinking in the extreme.
Looking at this admittedly from afar (London, in my case) it is obvious to me that the Storm have done a remarkably good job off the field in the last ten years, particularly in terms of putting together various age-group teams that have performed very well, regardless of how many players were actually born in Melbourne.
They have built up a definite supporter base in the city, and the move to the new stadium next year will mean they will have close to the best stadium in the NRL for watching league.
The Rebels will join the Super 15 the following year, but they will have a lot of ground to make up on the Storm at a time when there seems to be a collective loss of confidence about rugby in Australia, and even in England, to judge by some of the articles I’ve read in the English press recently.
The high end of town may play rugby in their private schools in Melbourne, and there may be some New Zealanders in town, but I’m not sure those factors will guarantee a big enough audience in themselves.

By: Kevin Taylor

Kevin Taylor — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:44:15 +0000

One consideration not brought up is the impact of devopment on Rugby League for Victoria.Not only did the Storm win the National Under 20 Comp – yes NATIONAL under 20 comp they also won the SG BALL under 18′s- massive effort.I believe there is room for all games, but when you consider the bombs thrown at Rugby League this year – both within and outside it is a remarkable product..Once rugby league comes under one banner(Not seperate entities eg NRL,ARL,QRL,NSWRL ,CRL etc – look out.Pre Super leauge the game was going gang busters.Rugby Union in my opinion simply has to change it s rules to gain TV interest.To Paley, I hope Leeds can beat The Storm – your input is valid and not incorrect.Suggest some people realise there is a World Club Challenge in Rugby League too.

By: Bill Baxter

Bill Baxter — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:13:09 +0000

Allen must have been forced to go to a Storm game, since he never went by choice!!!.
I don’t believe that the Rebels will be any sort of threat to the Storm. 8000 plus members and growing are unlikely to change their allegiance and desert the Storm. A few may watch both codes until they tire of seeing more penalties scored than tries.
Union has not grasped in recent years that scoring tries is the main objective. Bad refereeing and the constant reforming of scrums has not helped Union’s cause at all.

By: ohtani's jacket

ohtani's jacket — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:00:03 +0000

“The image on the John Eales medal depicts one of Australia’s most formidable and respected Wallaby captains. He isn’t soaring to win a lineout or diving to score a try or crunching an opponent in a tackle.

No, he’s on one knee lining up a place kick.”

Well, what’s happening on the NRL trophy? Looks like a bit of how’s ya father to me.

By: katzilla

katzilla — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:26:42 +0000

‘wouldn’t go to the storm, but would go to the rebels, because you think penalty goals are cool?’

I think he explained why. Something about Worldly game, much like Soccer but not to that extent of course.

By: katzilla

katzilla — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:18:29 +0000

‘Oh and Rugby fans hating RL is very much like the uglier, egotistical older brother hating his handsome younger brother who scores all the chicks’

Its easy to score chicks when shes only 17, drunk and there’s 10 of you.

EDIT: Btw im one of those people who like to watch the league too. Your bait was just too tempting for me to pass up.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:52:02 +0000

Starting off a base of zero, are you surprised it’s taken this long to see the fruits of their labour take this long to develop? Once the Storm have a few guys from Vic in the starting lineup, I am sure they will market them very well.

By: TammyS

TammyS — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:38:58 +0000

and especially with their feeder team finally playing out of melbourne instead of the central coast next year

By: macavity

macavity — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:59:18 +0000

wouldn’t go to the storm, but would go to the rebels, because you think penalty goals are cool?

By: Firestarter Bob

Firestarter Bob — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:59:03 +0000

I was thinking similarly. But the problem with the theory is “so what’s new?” If rugby in Victoria has had that “compatability” with Aussie rules where has it been for the past 100 years?

On http://www.colonialrugby.com.au/victoria.htm it shows many attempts in the 19th century to get rugby going in Melbourne but they all failed. Rugby has been there ever since but only real rugby tragics in Melbourne would even know. Fitzsimmons in the Herald regularly says the rugby game in Melbourne was big in the 1930s but why didn’t it kick on?