The months of October and November are a sobering reminder to the AFL just how much they trail in global stature to sports like rugby union, league and football.
The question has no easy answer, and without a genuine International professional level for our elite level players, perhaps now is the time to get serious on the representative front.
Australia’s four major sports are well supported by fans. Yet one of the four finds themselves with nothing to do from October onwards.
Amazingly, with such free time on their hands, the AFL have not even come close to organising exhibition games in genuine markets such as PNG, New Zealand, South Africa.
This lack of an International cohesion is worrying.
The AFL have introduced new initiatives that help the recruitment of International players, but have so far resisted the urge to give our elite players something to represent.
The success of the Rugby League Four Nations this year will interest a few at AFL HQ, and if similar cracking contests can be played out in Australia and New Zealand in 2010, then footy fans might begin to realise we are missing out on something.
The closest thing the AFL has to elite level International representation is the International Rules Series against Ireland.
Perhaps the worst thing to come from that series is that each and every year we have a series, the rules are tweaked and changed; so much so that it is now just Gaelic football with the addition of mild tackling rules.
Fairer rules that represent Gaelic and Australian football could be found, but the idea that International Rules is the primary opportunity for international footy is just absurd.
Steps need to be taken to introduce the game into countries of HUGE potential (Papua New Guinea, Pacific, perhaps New Zealand) and it is then and only then that an All Australian team might have a contest against another group of Australian footballers.
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November 20th 2009 @ 9:39am
Anthony said | November 20th 2009 @ 9:39am | Report comment
Growing up I could have played football, rugby, soccer, hockey or baseball – all within 10 mins walk. At high school I was told if I played rugby I could represent Australia & I went to an international game (Aus v Sth Africa). But I chose footy because I liked the various skills, because it was invented in Australia & it was part of our history!
November 20th 2009 @ 9:46am
AndyRoo said | November 20th 2009 @ 9:46am | Report comment
I choose Football (Soccer) because in my area (full of Maltese) that was the game. The local suburban team had 4 teams for every age group and even managed to spend a year in the NSW top flight.
Not for one second did anyone think about millions of dollars to be made or chances to go overseas….. we just wanted to score goals.
So I doubt being International is important for attracting talent, what other reason is their that AFL “needs” to be international.
November 20th 2009 @ 11:00am
Republican said | November 20th 2009 @ 11:00am | Report comment
I can’t believe we are still having this rubbish debate.
Last tiime I looked AFL’s popularity was continueing to grow while Union continues to battle for survival in Oz as well as struggling in NZ. League, which only just qualifies as international, is holding it’s own domestically. Soccer is strong at GR’s but so what, since the jury is still out on any elite potential in this country.
So much for the theory that having zip i/n status is hurting the code, to the contrary, it’s uni lateral appeal is it’s strength – ie NOT seeking to be cringingly international.
The last thing we need is another sudo tokenistic i/n fixture between NZ, crickey have we not reached saturtation point in Trans Tasman chest thumping events and as if the International Rules was not compromising enough. Can you imagine our game being bastardised by a Union stronghold such as NZ. I perish the thought.
Fare go, this topic has surpassed being laborious
Good day and good luck
November 20th 2009 @ 12:02pm
captain nemo said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
republican, am i on drugs mate or did you just say that rugby is struggling in NZ!!!!! mate, get a life
November 20th 2009 @ 12:07pm
captain nemo said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
republican quote “Last tiime I looked AFL’s popularity was continueing to grow while Union continues to battle for survival in Oz as well as struggling in NZ.” sorry Redb but I think thats what it says. The last time I was on here I received an email from Zac cautioning me that I was inciting arguements between the codes etc.. when rubbish like this is being broadcast, I realise why I only have a peek at this site every few weeks. seriously, some of you guys are brainwashed….
November 20th 2009 @ 12:15pm
Redb said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
Argue the facts that disprove the statements then.
You always come across with a strong anti Vic bias that clouds what would otherwise be lucid comments.
November 20th 2009 @ 12:37pm
captain nemo said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Red, the comments by MC were that the wallabies are almost invisble in VIC. my point is so what!! when roar contributor and Wallaby David “Bambam” Pocock lines up for the national athem on Murrayfield, Twikenham, Croak park etc could he care less if he is invisible in VIC. Packed house watched by millions, I don’t think they feel invisible out their in the middle. Or the aussie expats that travel from whereever they are living standing in the cold watching their national team, getting ripped of with local accomodation etc, do they care if they are invicible in VIC, no way mate. The wallabies represent Australia, yet if they are invisible in VIC, then I suppose the state is not interested in them, so what mate. Am i anti VIC, nope, awesome city, very user friendly, great food etc etc however…..
November 20th 2009 @ 1:00pm
Redb said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
nemo.
I really dont think MC meant to have a go at the Wallabies but he is right to a point, that in recent times, there has been little publicity about the Wallabies. Not sure when the last bledisloe was held in Melbourne but it was a few years a go. The recent test drew a fairly small crowd at Etihad.
Most AFL fans know who the Wallabies are and like them, the Socceroos have gone past them though these days as the national team other than cricket if that makes sense.
Redb
November 20th 2009 @ 2:30pm
Michael C said | November 20th 2009 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
CN -
What Redb said,
I’ve still no idea why you went ranting on.
Take a chill pill,
and stick to the topic.
November 20th 2009 @ 11:07am
Anthony said | November 20th 2009 @ 11:07am | Report comment
jim_bar:
AFL average attendance exceeds 36,000 – making it the 3rd highest in the world after NFL & Bundesliga. I am not sure about club membership, but would have to be up there also.
November 20th 2009 @ 11:10am
Lazza said | November 20th 2009 @ 11:10am | Report comment
AFL fans in general do not support the Socceroos or the Wallabies. They see them as rivals and competitors and they openly admit that they don’t watch anything besides AFL. Just have a look at a Melbourne or Adelaide newspaper when the issue of World Cup stadiums come up. You’ll see 500 comments from bitter, fearful AFL fans telling us that they don’t care about the World Cup, don’t care about Soccer or any international sports in general and that we shouldn’t be playing any British or foreign sports.
It’s no surprise that the AFL dominated Crawford report just concluded that Australians aren’t that interested in international sporting success and we shouldn’t worry about the Olympics. That’s not the Australia I’ve always known, we’ve always cherished our international sporting heroes, taken great pride in our sporting success and am glad there’s been such a huge backlash against those absurd recommendations. Why would you put AFL people on a committee to examine sport in Australia anyway? They don’t have the knowledge, experience or interest in international sport, don’t know anything except AFL and are clearly biased.
I have this debate with AFL fans here in Adelaide all the time. I tell them that we could have the best of both worlds but they’re just not interested in being a great sporting nation. Having our own sport is fun but not if we have to sacrifice international sporting glory.
November 20th 2009 @ 11:29am
Redb said | November 20th 2009 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Leave your bias at the door. Youv’e gone off on an off topic rant.
if you want to speak for yourself that’s fine, dont support the Wallabies or Socceroos.
November 20th 2009 @ 11:46am
Lazza said | November 20th 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
You know I follow both sports Redb because I know so much about Aussie Rules and am a keen Crows supporter. I’ve grown up with Aussie Rules, played the game in my youth and am happy to follow both sports.
My problem has always been with the attitude of so many AFL fans, especially the older ones. If you don’t think that attitute is common amongst them then go onto a newspaper site and read the comments my friend.
November 20th 2009 @ 11:59am
Redb said | November 20th 2009 @ 11:59am | Report comment
When I do Lazza, I read a lot of stupid comments from one eyed world game fans too.
November 20th 2009 @ 12:03pm
AndyRoo said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
True Redb
November 20th 2009 @ 11:33am
Michael C said | November 20th 2009 @ 11:33am | Report comment
Lazza – there’s a difference between wanting the FIFA WC and wanting it at ALL COSTS.
basically, the AFL position which is:
support it in principle, but need to see the detail.
November 20th 2009 @ 1:15pm
Lazza said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
I read RealFooty this morning where they said that Soccer was the ‘enemy’. Like I said, we could have the best of both worlds. The AFL doesn’t have to become international and Football doesn’t have to become the dominant code in Australia.
The attitude of so many AFL fans, journalists and administrators is what disappoints me so much. Keeper is right, go to a mainstream site and read the comments.
November 20th 2009 @ 1:21pm
Redb said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
Lazza,
And what if I ventured over to 442 or SBS the World Game. Would I find an embracing love of AFL footy? or a bunch of media conspiracy theorists and world game to conquer all rhetoric?
November 20th 2009 @ 1:31pm
Lazza said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
You won’t see 500 comments bashing the AFL. There may be an article or two defending the sport and replying to the “anti-football” brigade. If AFL journalists want to attack Football then they have every right to respond.
November 20th 2009 @ 1:47pm
Michael C said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
the glasses through which you readeth such forums are heavily tainted in the hues of roses.
November 20th 2009 @ 11:34am
Anthony said | November 20th 2009 @ 11:34am | Report comment
The problem with people like Lazza is that they see AFL as the enemy, & then wonder why we footy supporters respond to their bias.
November 20th 2009 @ 11:51am
Michael C said | November 20th 2009 @ 11:51am | Report comment
we can always flip this a little anyway,
the problem for domestic soccer in Australia is the almost total international dimension.
It constricts the local domestic league.
The problem is that they want to be part of the global world of their game – and in doing so, are suffering their imbalance via the FIFA WC big. Their destiny is not in their hands.
We often here about teams seeking to make the finals, the FFA presently is needing to rely on other teams losing to get through!!
The AFL lack of international competition means the AFL can play where and when they like. Where as the Domestic soccer situation, and even the running of the FIFA WC – against sees huge restrictions and limitations.
If the FIFA WC bid fails in Australia – it is not the fault of the AFL – but, 100% the fault of domestic soccer for being so limited and too internationally geared.
The Socceroos is indicative of the issue. They are infact homeless. They play and live the majority of their soccer lives outside of Australia – the team gathers variously depending upon FIFA windows or not – and play someone somewhere in somebody elses stadium. Even in Australia – the Socceroos don’t have a ‘home’.
Domestic soccer has failed itself for over 100 years in NOT building it’s own bastions. It must only be naive to believe that you can waltz down a street, pick the best house, knock on the door and compell the occupants to vacate just so you can house some overseas visitors……as Derryn Hinch would say “Shame, shame, shame”.
Does that work???
“A glass is half empty to the thirsty man, and half full to the sated man.”
“Half full or half empty; depends on whether you’re in over your head or only up to your knees.”
November 20th 2009 @ 1:23pm
Lazza said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
AFL has failed miserably for 150 years in becoming a national sport. Because it started so late it may never become a truly national game. It’s pretty naive to believe you’re going to convince all those Rugby and League fans to follow what they perceive to be a Victorian sport.
Who cares really though. Follow your favourite winter code but just don’t ignore international sports. I don’t really regard League as an international sport. It’s a niche sport in England and France, and a poor number 2 in NZ. Great sporting rivalries occur when BOTH countries are passionate about a sport.
November 20th 2009 @ 1:46pm
Michael C said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
“AFL has failed miserably for 150 years in becoming a national sport.”
the only national sports were national prior to 1860…..i.e. cricket!!
If the AFL (Australian Football) has failed in 150 years,…….what then is to be said of Rugby and Soccer with the might of the British Empire and favourable migration behind them.
Who cares about Rugby U and L fans……the most insular people on earth if all these people who reckon a sport orignating in Victoria 150 years ago is reason enough to hate it……if that sums them up – then let the AFL focus on the new generation of slightly more worldly kids for whom Rugby League and Union doth not alone constitute a sport smorgasboard.
btw – who’s ignoring international sports? the main thing is, international is not the be all and end all,
and, for all we might pick on our own AFL because of the Tom Hawkins poster….we look to the great mighty world game as see the hand of ‘le frog’……and realise that ain’t nothing perfect…..so, just – play ball!!!
November 20th 2009 @ 2:01pm
Lazza said | November 20th 2009 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
I agree and if all AFL fans were as reasonable as you then I wouldn’t have a problem. The problem is that they are not, especially the older ones.
November 20th 2009 @ 2:36pm
Michael C said | November 20th 2009 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
Lazza -
thanx, that almost read as a compliment……(I must have misread the tone, perhaps??)
but, seriously, the older ones in all the codes tend to be a tad stuck in their own patch of mud……no matter how worldly they think they are by virtue of primary choice of football code to watch.
Main thing on the local/international front – - – you can only ever play who is up against you on the day. Be it the neighbouring suburb or a team from Bolivia.
I used to be a bit more apathetic and anti AFL HQ until I realised just how cool it is that we have our own unique code that technically predates Rugby/Soccer, and that IS getting a following overseas, gradually – - – and DOES give us something a little different for the pretty exchange student to see when we open the door to our dorm room……figuratively speaking.
btw – the Vics are closing in,…1 for 241.
November 20th 2009 @ 3:40pm
Lazza said | November 20th 2009 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
All our international stars are homeless. All our Footballers, Basketballers, Tennis Players, Golfers, Athletes, Motor Sports etc have to ply their trade overseas to compete at the highest level. Unlike some sports all our Footballers come home and represent the country when needed.
The toughest ask in AFL is winning interstate, right? Imagine having to play in England on Saturday then flying half way round the world to play for your country on Wednesday. That’s tough.
I was paying you a compliment earlier by the way.
November 20th 2009 @ 12:12pm
keeper11 said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
The what ?
Problem with people like Anthony is they’re not comfortable with any possible change or opening of australias insular sporting landscape and run to their friends at Herald sun/ Advertiser /3aw etc that tells ‘us’ what ‘we’ want to hear and who ‘those’ enemies are……sniff sniff
Lazza is right…the anti-football/ anti-’international ‘ / anti anything ‘foreign’ vitriol from the AFL types on those mainstream sites has to be beleived…
btw..cricket may be ‘your’ preffered alternate national sport….
but its also ‘our’ Socceroos and ‘our’ Wallabies last time i checked
November 20th 2009 @ 12:17pm
Redb said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
right. So tell us about the number of AFL games you attend and watch on TV.
I keep reading you say AFL fans are insular? do you take your own advice?
November 20th 2009 @ 12:25pm
captain nemo said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
who are you asking Red???
November 20th 2009 @ 12:31pm
Redb said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
keeper11.
anyone someones been let off the chain and the debate will head south quick.
see ya.
November 20th 2009 @ 12:23pm
oikee said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
You forgot our Kangaroos, keeper, if you live in 1 of 2 states, or happen to be a storm supporter, it was their players doing the damage over-seas.
November 20th 2009 @ 12:18pm
Republican said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
Cap – i – tan
Nope, thats what i have been reading from various sources over the past year or so.
Perhaps it’s all just a beat up fabrication of dubious intent however, this has been a regularly aired opinion subject in NZ media for some time now.
More recently it was put to Kiwis if they prefer Soccer to Union post the All Whites v Dubai game? One of those subjectively conducted polls perhaps, however this revealed quite significantly that Soccer appeared more popular at that moment.
There has certainly been a shift in Kiwi sporting conciousness over the past few years, which indicates a groundswell of anti Union sentiment across the ‘dutch’. I reckon this is true and will only intensify with a growing Australian diaspora in NZ today
Cheers
November 20th 2009 @ 1:16pm
captain nemo said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Republican, I couldn’t disagree with you more except that the All whites are having their moment in the sun and good on em!!!
republican quote “There has certainly been a shift in Kiwi sporting conciousness over the past few years, which indicates a groundswell of anti Union sentiment across the ‘dutch’. I reckon this is true and will only intensify with a growing Australian diaspora in NZ today” anti union sentiment. Now maybe there is a kiwi who is anti rugby but mate, they are few and far between. defn of anti, ” a person who is opposed to a particular practice, party, policy, action, etc.”
Republican, I get to NZ about 6 or so times a year, I have not yet met a Kiwi who is “anti” or opposed to rugby… to claim that there is a groundswell of people opposed to rugby in NZ is bizzare. Some of your arguements about rugby in the ACT seem reasonable however you shoot yourself in the foot with this garbage.
Republican quote “More recently it was put to Kiwis if they prefer Soccer to Union post the All Whites v Dubai game? One of those subjectively conducted polls perhaps, however this revealed quite significantly that Soccer appeared more popular at that moment. ” Could you provide a link to this poll please??
republican quote ” this has been a regularly aired opinion subject in NZ media for some time now.” mate, could you please provide me with a few of the links in the NZ press about the growing anti rugby sentiment in NZ. Its time to put up or shut up because any of us on here who frequent the shaky isles over the last 20 years plus have a plenty of kiwi work mates know you are stretching it to put it nicely!!!!
November 20th 2009 @ 4:27pm
katzilla said | November 20th 2009 @ 4:27pm | Report comment
I know what it is your talking about Republican but your misguided.
NZers in general are becoming anti-super rugby and recently have become dis-illusioned with the ABs and their poor play against various teams this year.
This doesn’t mean rugby is on the downer though. The ANZC enjoyed one of its most successful years ever, and if one of the either Southland or Hawkes bay had of made the finals it would have been a final for the archives.
Rugby is as strong as it ever will be, anyone who thinks this time in the sun for the All Whites will cause a turning of the tide is highly delusional (a few kiwi soccer media types ala Cockerill here)
Everyone in NZ is super stoked for the All Whites, including every rugby fan. Why? Because Soccer is seen as a Niche sport in NZ. Its a minor player, this recent run may see them gain a slightly bigger part of the pie and i’d be stoked with that too because i want to attend some All Whites matches against some big guns and if we do well in SA we might just get a couple of big boys to come out for a trip.
Even Sean Fitzpatrick (one of the greatest AB captains of all time) was barracking the All Whites home.
I knew quite a few mates that went to the game (used ot live in Wellington before i moved to oz) and out of the 12 or so i knew, only 1 i would say is a genuine Soccer fan. The rest are rugby heads.
But nothing is bigger then the Soccer world cup and as a nation we’re stoked to be going.
NZ will never be anything other then a rugby country – everything else is fighting for a piece of whats left.
November 20th 2009 @ 12:19pm
oikee said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
AFL is a aussie game, but to be biased against other codes is unhealthy. You are missing out on so much to just follow Melbourne sport. And the most support is in Melbourne, and expats. So yes agree, AFL will always be a local product, because the rest of the world has their sports, and it takes years to just build interest in other sport. What Melbourne has to be aware of, their is a whole new genaration of fans coming onto the market for other codes. The new play-ground(stadium) will hasten this genaration in earnice. Nobody can stop this, not Demetriou, not AFL supporters, no-one.
November 20th 2009 @ 1:28pm
BigAl said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Stop that !!!!
November 20th 2009 @ 12:32pm
Republican said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
keeper11
Australia is far from an insular sporting nation mate. Do you need a list of the international events, codes and dicsiplines Oz competes in and in fact excels at? I think not.
Many who resent our national game and you appear to be one of those ( I will scour for your non deplume on the Soccer threads in keeping this site consistent and honest) do so because it is so fervently patronised domestically, to the detriment of the international codes on offer.
I think we should celebrate this wonderous irony in such a hum drum world of global sameness. This is hardly an insular expectation of it’s custodians, for what is a cultural institution which should be nurtured as such.
November 20th 2009 @ 12:40pm
Republican said | November 20th 2009 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
Oikee
Guess what mate, there is also a whole new generation of new Australians embracing our game with gusto.
You also should cease perpetuating the myth and mischeif that our game is soley a Melbourne game, you know and I know, this is NOT so.
Cheers
November 20th 2009 @ 1:27pm
Lazza said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
The TV ratings would seem to indicate that it is primarily a Melbourne game. About 60-70% of the TV ratings and revenue come from one city – Melbourne.
The Swans and Lions get beaten by SBS in the TV ratings up there. If you wait 120 years before you finally decide to expand the game it’s going to be tough.
November 20th 2009 @ 1:35pm
Michael C said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
Good growth potential then.
November 20th 2009 @ 1:34pm
Michael C said | November 20th 2009 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
careful,
Oikee will tell you about how RL has such worthy grass roots in both Perth and Melbourne that they are considered RL states……
but AFL is still ‘vicball’ and has no worthwhile presence in QLD and NSW.
something about geese, gooses, and ganders.
y’know the old saying “The grass is greener on the other side,….., after they’ve painted it”
November 20th 2009 @ 3:24pm
oikee said | November 20th 2009 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
Has the game not grown out of Melbourne? has the expats not taken the game to other areas? So my point is valid, and to try and say that you are the only game to introduce their own rules, bullocks, rugby league in oz has introduced every rule into the game and the other countries follow suit, why keep lying to us on here that your the only code to make your own rules, (mybe not you, but someone said it) and finally their are a whole lot of people taking rugby league with Gusto, Hulk Hogan being one of them Gusto.s
November 20th 2009 @ 3:30pm
Michael C said | November 20th 2009 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
oikee -
what are you talking about??
Has the game not grown out of Melbourne? well…..yes. ANd soccer should be Londonball, and Rugby….is….well….Rugbyball……so, 50/50 on that one – - but, perhaps League should be termed ‘Sydball’ or ‘Huddersball’??
Yes, Hulk Hogan…..and when in Melbourne he’ll be donning a Collingwood jumper……..