Solution for World Cup Qualifying problems
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By prsancho, 21 Nov 2009 prsancho is a Roar Rookie
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There are some complaints about New Zealand’s qualification for the World Cup, the Australian move to Asia, and the dominance of East Asia in the qualifying. The arguments are all over the internet, so I don’t need to bring them here.
My point here is that all the complaints exist because there are some problems in the Conference division used by FIFA.
In order to solve that, I would suggest three things: the end of the OFC (Oceania Football Conference); the split of AFC (Asian Football Conference); and the merge of East Asia and ASEAN teams with the OFC in a new Pacific Football Conference.
That’s the way it would look like:
I. Pacific Football Confederation (PFC)
32 members, divided in 3 regions:
a) East (9) – China, Hong Kong, DPR Korea, Korea Republic, Guam, Japan, Chinese Taipei, Macau and Mongolia;
b) ASEAN (11) – Brunei, Cambodia, Timor-Leste, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, The Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam;
c) Oceania (12) – American Samoa, Australia, Cook Islands, Fiji, New Caledonia, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Samoa, Tahiti, Tonga, Vanuatu and New Zealand.
II. Asian Football Confederation (AFC)
25 members, divided in 2 regions:
a) West (12) – Bahrain, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, UAE and Yemen;
b) South and Central (13) – Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Iran, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan.
This would solve not only World Cup Qualifying problems, but also those of the Club World Cup and the Confederations Cup, where a weak OFC side has a secured spot against the World best.
I also think would be quite easy and un-harmful to do.
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RoryKnowsAll said | November 21st 2009 @ 6:43am | Report comment
That may work but the reason Australia moved to the Asian conference was to play more matches against a better quality of opposition.
If we moved back into Oceania we would be playing easybeats like American somoa which would offer us no chance to improve as a footballing nation and we would go backwards.
Freud of Football said | November 21st 2009 @ 6:58am | Report comment
Australia really moved to the AFC as it smoothed the path to WC qualification. If they were beating Bahrain 31-0 every time out I’m sure they wouldn’t be complaining.
The idea certainly has its merits, I’d take it further and split up the other confederations as it would not only make qualification fairer and give teams from across the globe a better chance of qualification but it would help to dilute the power at the top so people like Blatter can’t bribe and buy their way into power quite so easily.
dasilva said | November 21st 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
The primary reason is that australia get regular competitive game. Having only one important home match every 4 years is just a disaster that left Soccer Australia bankrupt. You don’t get regular income with your premier team and you have no opportunities to build your brand and you stay out of hte public consciousness for the 3 out of the 4 years.
Also Australia will develop ties with Asian countries which makes it more attractive for sponsors and investors to put money in the game if they want to develop relationship with Asian countries. The glory owner and Clive palmer wouldn’t have own the club (although you could argue it would have been good thing that Palmer didn’t own Gold Coast) if it wasn’t for the lure of Asia.
That was always the main reason we join ASia. Easier WCQ path was the icing in the cake
Paulo Roberto Sanchotene said | November 21st 2009 @ 7:03am | Report comment
Rory,
Those divisions don’t apply to the World Cup Qualifying. At this very moment, Australia is member of the ASEAN region. Look the company! Australia would continues to play against strong opposition such as Japan and Korea Republic, both in the WC Qualilfying and in PFC Cup Qualifying and Finals. So, as I’ve said it wouldn’t hurt.
andrewMc said | November 21st 2009 @ 7:06am | Report comment
But you haven’t said where the world cup places would go. Currently AFC and OFC have a combined total of 5 places. How are you going to divide that up between your new PFC and AFC?? 3 to PFC and 2 to AFC?? 2.5 each?? No teams from your AFC qualified for the next world cup. Do they deserve 2 places??
Paulo Roberto Sanchotene said | November 21st 2009 @ 7:17am | Report comment
Hmmmm…
Nice question.
Today, everything points to something like PFC – 3.5; AFC – 1.5. But not long ago in 2006, the four spots were splited (Australia was in OFC); that happened also in 1998. WC2002 was a different story because it was held in Japan/Korea.
I would put 2.5 each, and see how it goes. Historically, it’s the best way to do it. But, it can change. There is not only one “correct answer” about it.
dasilva said | November 21st 2009 @ 7:54am | Report comment
I never understood the compulsion to separate west asia and east asia. Only thing it does is weaken the asian the confederation. It just increase the change of australia, South Korea and Japan not qualifying to the world cup and more likely sides like Saudi Arabia qualify which they will promptly get humiliated at the world cup.
Why does West Asia deserve a spot when none of their sides make it. 5 of the qualifiers came from the Asia-Pacific region and now you are going to reduce it down to 3 teams. It’s not exactly fair.
Paulo Roberto Sanchotene said | November 21st 2009 @ 8:20am | Report comment
Actually, the problem is no West Asia, but Oceania. It simply don’t deserve to be an independent Confederation. So the idea is to make the whole Oceania join AFC as one of its subdivision and, then, split the Confederation in two. It seems the fairest and the best way to do it, “footballistic” speaking.
About the spots, I’ve answered it to Andrew. You can’t look only to the last WC Qualifying and say it’s unfair. Americas have 8 spots; North America, 3.5 of them. Is it fair? Perhaps not, but it’s balanced.
dasilva said | November 21st 2009 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Just get Oceania join Asia then.
What’s the need of splitting it.
Chuq said | November 22nd 2009 @ 8:38am | Report comment
Because Vanuatu/American Samoa cannot afford to travel to Syria or Oman every few months for WCQ matches.
Freud of Football said | November 22nd 2009 @ 8:40am | Report comment
Chuq, go and read Davidde Corran’s piece on this. The solution there makes even less sense.
Paulo Roberto Sanchotene said | November 21st 2009 @ 8:36am | Report comment
And, of course, I didn’t want to make the Qualifying totally different from today’s, as you’ve tried to do, Dasilva. My point is, keeping the system as we have now (including club competitions, and with six Confederations), relegating Oceania to a subdivision of an actual Confederation seems the best option.
dasilva said | November 21st 2009 @ 8:41am | Report comment
I just personally want to see less confederation division in football not more so I don’t really like the idea of any organisation splitting. I would like to see Oceania as a subdivision of Asian confederation.
If not then (there’s plenty reason why Asia and Oceania with the exception of New Zealand would oppose this). Simply have Oceania join the final stages of the Asian qualifying. You don’t have to be a member of AFC to do that (Asia and Oceania qualification were merged during 1970 to 1982 despite Australia and New Zealand were never part of the AFC and were members of OFC)
Darwin hammer said | November 21st 2009 @ 9:21am | Report comment
All this just because the kiwis have made for the first time in 27 years – were there calls of all this 4 years ago because T & T got through
NZ have made good of a situation – which despite what some on here think – wasn’t all that easy.
Idealy for the next W/cup the situation described above is the best solution – it allows a meangingful pathway providing home and away fixtures while at the same time allowing the oceanic teams entry into youth and confed cup – which will benefit long term development
dasilva said | November 21st 2009 @ 10:04am | Report comment
the Kiwis qualification were incidental
This idea of merging the qualifiers was talked about in The Roar about two years ago. Pippinu suggested that someone should write a separate article about it. No one did, until now. Don’t think that I wanted that system just to exclude NEw Zealand from the world cup
Like I say before, New Zealand deserves the spot in the world Cup.
Paulo Roberto Sanchotene said | November 21st 2009 @ 10:44pm | Report comment
I couldn’t agree more, Dasilva.
sheek said | November 21st 2009 @ 8:14am | Report comment
Here’s another conference suggestion:
1. North-West Europe (including England, Holland, France, Spain, etc)
2. South-East Europe (Including Germany, Italy, Russia, Hungary, etc)
3. Persia (including Arabic & Central Asian countries as far as India, Burma)
4. Asia (basically S-E Asia, Western Pacific Rim & Oceania)
5. Northern Africa
6. Southern Africa
7. North & Central America (including Caribbean)
8. South America
9. Wildcards (repecharge play-offs for last remaining WC positions)
Number of teams selected from each conference could vary between 2-6 countries each.
Wildcards could range from 2 to 4 countries.
Two European conferences could be tweaked to ensure traditional heavyweights are more or less evenly distributed. Indeed, ditto for other conference splits.
Freud of Football said | November 21st 2009 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Sheek, you’re on the right line here but I’d go even further;
1) Western Europe (UK, West Europe as far east as Germany)
2) Northern Europe (Scandanavia, Russia and former Soviet countries)
3) Southern Europe (Greece, Italy etc.)
4) Persia (Gulf nations, would also include Georgia, Turkey etc.)
5) Pacific (all of Oceania, Aus, some of Southern ASEAN)
6) Asia Continental (everything between Persia and ASEAN nations, roughly Afghanistan – China)
7) Southern Africa (basically south of the equator or current COSAFA)
West & Central Africa (all of UFOA, some of UNIFAC, some of UNAF)
9) North East Africa (all of CECEFA, some of UNAF)
10) South America (Conmebol to stay as is + Guyana, Suriname & French Guiana)
11) East Carribean (T&T, small Islands, as far West as Dominican Republic)
12) North / Central America (UNCAF + West Caribbean nations + North America)
So we’d go from 6 federations to 12 with more even numbers as far as members are concerned. Current “powerhouses” would no longer dominate, UEFA for example holds a ridiculous amount of votes and while it’s entirely plausible that the new federations would form alliances along old lines, they would be able to lobby their own needs much more than in the current system. Further, nations remain “grouped” so travel is kept to a minimum as to keep the minnows in the game but it’s as much the political side of the game as the sporting side that would be cleaned up by splitting the federations up further.
As for the slots.
1) Western Europe – Auto 4
West & Central Africa – Auto 2
2) Northern Europe – Auto 2
3) Southern Europe – Auto 2
4) Persia – Auto 1
5) Pacific – Auto 1
6) Asia Continental – Auto 2
7) Southern Africa – Auto 2
9) North East Africa – Auto 1
10) South America – Auto 3
11) East Carribean – Auto 1
12) North / Central America – Auto 1
That would leave 12 playoff places to be distributed via knockouts, perhaps between federations?
Ben of Phnom Penh said | November 21st 2009 @ 11:11am | Report comment
It is a topic that has been discussed on a myriad of occasions. Basically if you want an Asian nation to win a World Cup then the toughest internal competition possible needs to be available. Iran needs to play Japan, Saudi need to play Korea, we need to play Uzbekistan. If you want to enter the World Cup more often then sure, split the confederation. If you want to win the World Cup then keep it together.
The OFC could enter Asia as a sub-set with the top two nations joining the 3rd round of Asian qualification (there being 4 rounds for those with poor memories), just as Dasilva has suggested.
dasilva said | November 21st 2009 @ 10:57pm | Report comment
Exactly, nations never progress by hiding themselves from the good teams.
It will be a cop out if there is a split between west asia and east asia. West Asia shouldn’t see them missing out as an excuse that they should split so they can guarantee themselves a spot in the world cup. They should see it as a challenge to improve themselves.
rocktrap said | November 21st 2009 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
New Zealand should also join the Asian confedration. They would benefit in the same way that Australia has. It would also make Wellington’s place in the A-league more acceptable.
Asia would then have 4.25 places. Leave the minnows of oceania in their own region and give them 0.25 places. Oceania would play off against an Asian country with the winner of that playoff going into a playoff with possibly Africa which probably deserves another 0.5 places.
Jeb said | November 21st 2009 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
Sure, NZ didn’t have to play anyone and they should have had to. Not their fault – they played who was in front of them and luck would have it that it was Bahrain. The simple answer is for the winner of Oceania to join the last round of Asian qualifying. Or, as the the original post said, Oceania becomes part of the AFC – the equivalent of the ASEAN branch. But I don’t see how this should neccearily lead to splitting the AFC. West Asia wasn’t good enough to qualify, bad luck. You can’t go around giving them places of their own just to make sure they are represented.
vas said | November 21st 2009 @ 5:36pm | Report comment
The only change I’d make after New Zealand’s entry is to get them into the AFC. Not only will it benefit New Zealand, the OFC will become a more even competition for it. At the moment, none of the island’s benefit from having to play NZ, knowing they’re pigs for the slaughter. OFC would become a totally amateur confederation, but it must be allowed to develop at its own pace, without having to endure shellackings from NZ and before from Australia.
As for New Zealand, a move to AFC represents a natural step for their football progress. To pit them against tougher competition may cost them some World Cup appearances, but the overall quality of football would improve, and they would get more regular friendlies against top teams.
rdezima said | December 22nd 2009 @ 10:43am | Report comment
Hahaha
Guess who is commenting on the Socceroos… ladies and gentlemen Sancho is also known as “Kevin Muscat of Uruguaiana”.
(sorry for derailing this thread, it’s just a very funny coincidence I’d find sancho here )
prsancho said | May 20th 2010 @ 12:41am | Report comment
Geez! I just can’t believe it!
How can I speak with you?! I know you will never read this again, but, it’s always worth trying. Write to me! You can find me at http://tiefschwartz.blogspot.com/
Best,
Paudinho
prsancho said | December 4th 2010 @ 12:19am | Report comment
This was written past year, but it’s good to bring it back.
Please, FIFA, SPLIT ASIA!!!
If Australia wants to try again bidding to the WC, that might be a solution. Although, China would support it for the same reasons. Still, the best news about getting this split done, wouldn’t be the WC bid, but to get read of Mohamed Bin Hammam as the Confederation president. He would still be in AFC, probably, but China, Japan, S. Korea, Australia and N. Zealand would be safe in the new PFC.