By Darren Walton
November 21st 2009 @ 2:21am
View The Roar's top rugby union writers.
Love new art, fashion, music? Check out Aussie site which unearths all things cool and creative.
Join Australia’s community for solo & micro business at FlyingSolo.com.au
Related coverage
Wallabies ready to win ugly in soggy Edinburgh
Making no apologies, the Wallabies say they will be happy to win ugly at Murrayfield on Saturday if that’s what’s required to avoid their first loss to Scotland in 27 years.
Bracing themselves for horrible conditions after a rain-filled week in Edinburgh, the Wallabies will once again rely on midfield playmakers Matt Giteau and Quade Cooper [...]
This article is over 2000 days old and has been trimmed.
Going to the Waratahs v Brumbies blockbuster at ANZ Stadium, Saturday 24 April? If you're keen to meet up with other Roarers, register you interest and we'll keep you informed on the place to meet. Register now.
Get Australia's best Rugby opinion emailed daily.
Like this content? Buzz it up!
Free Email updates:
Our daily emails are only sent if there is content for the sport or that author. You can subscribe to multiple daily emails; or get the daily Roar email with all our content in it. We value privacy. More...
(54)
captain nemo said | November 21st 2009 @ 9:50am | Report comment
I hope the referee allows advantage to be played this weekend. last weekend was a disgracefull performance by the man with the pea in that regard. Interesting only one change.
Pothale said | November 21st 2009 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Absolutely, Ireland would have scored a lot more tries except for the whistle-happy SH ref who played into Australia’s endless boring kicking strategy, numerous breakdowns and scrums.
adam said | November 21st 2009 @ 11:30am | Report comment
scotland the brave
Dean Pantio said | November 21st 2009 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
Wining ugly huh? This should be a change (in one area anyway).
Stalker said | November 22nd 2009 @ 11:29am | Report comment
nup. Losing ugly still
Chris said | November 21st 2009 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
They should be winning ugly against teams like Ireland, England and Wales. There is no excuse to not put five tries past Scotland. The fact that we are even entertaining the possibility of losing to Scotland is a sad reflection on just how bad this Australian team is.
Dave said | November 21st 2009 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
Spot on Chris. Every Australian team that I have watched for the past 10 years has put Scotland to the sword.
The negative mindset is a disgrace. If you cant score tries against Scotland, then how on earth can we do so against top opposition in future?
If we had actually played Ruby Union last week, then we would have comfortably beaten Ireland. Instead we went to the default kick tactic for no purpose.
The most sad aspect for my is that our most instinctively daring player – Quade Cooper – is leading the statements on playing that style of Rugby… I didn’t think we would hear that from him until Ewen crushes all of his natural instincts at the Reds next season..
People say the wallabies of the 2001 – 2007 era were robotic. Give me ‘robots’ who could score some tries against any side any day of the week over ‘playing whats in front of you’ which translates into ‘I have no idea what I am supposed to do so I’ll just kick and not risk making a mistake’
Knives Out said | November 21st 2009 @ 10:42pm | Report comment
You don’t think that the shunning of a running rugby is purposeful because the players aren’t capable? it’s not like the Australian S14 sides play much football.
Dave said | November 21st 2009 @ 11:51pm | Report comment
It does start at the lower levels. I think the players CAN play running rugby, but you are correct that if this doesn’t happen at S14, its hard to develop those skills.
The Brumbies once upon a time used to play rugby. Sure they would make mistakes, drop the ball, take the wrong options etc. As the match (and season) wore on though, passes stuck, moves worked, and players knew their role. Its not rocket science. If you continually run the ball, you become better at it, and dont make basic mistakes like we continually see from our S14 sides and the wallabies.
I think players today do their token one or two phase hit ups, then amazed that it has not yet been knocked on say, ‘oh well we tried’, and kick the ball away.
The Reds had a go this year, but that sort of wild thinking cant be tolerated and a promosing young coach was kicked out
Robbo said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:11am | Report comment
The difference was that when the Brumbies ran it they won two premierships and made 5 grand finals. There is a difference between playing running rugby (like the Brumbies) and trying to (like the Reds).
fred said | November 22nd 2009 @ 7:30am | Report comment
promising to lose all his patronage and sponsors cos 6 wins out of 26 sent them to league.deans is promising———–
Knives Out said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:06am | Report comment
Congratulations Scotland.
Blacky said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:12am | Report comment
Congratulations AB’s
Mr cheese said | November 22nd 2009 @ 7:30am | Report comment
Touche
matt0931 said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:10am | Report comment
Just watched the wallabies lose the test.
What a pathetic game for the wallabies. They had all the posession and couldn’t help but constantly bugger up on the game line.
Two try attempts that ended with the ball held up. One easy try that went begging to a forward pass and Giteau missed two penalties, a drop goal and a conversion.
Ryan Cross was crap again, Cooper was rubbish, Mitchell once again was of little use. crap, crap crap.
Australia need bigger players in the backs. The forwards were dominating the match again but all the ground they made was lost again and again by inneffective backs.
Robbo said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:13am | Report comment
Bigger backs or better ones? The two aren’t coterminous.
Blacky said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:17am | Report comment
They need to be bigger and better.
Hopefully Mortlock and Barnes will sort the size issue out next year
mitzter said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:13am | Report comment
absolutely forwards mostly great but too many individuals in the backs, kicks poor, and giteau is not worth anything near what he gets paid
Who Needs Melon said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:16am | Report comment
Well. In considering whether we should win ‘ugly’ or ‘pretty’, we forgot another possibility. I haven’t seen the game but just read the result online. I think I have watched every televised game the Wallabies have played over the past 20 odd years but I’m going to give this one a miss. In fact, sadly, I’m looking forward to a break from rugby for a while.
As KO said, Congratulations to Scotland. I’m always happy when an underdog comes up with a win. Fortunately for me going for the Wallabies and going for the underdog amounts to the same thing much of the time these days.
MarkH said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:19am | Report comment
Oh yeah, Scotland were great. Good on them.
MarkH said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:17am | Report comment
The Wallabies couldnt fininsh a middy at happy hour.
MarkH said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:18am | Report comment
We just dont have a smart No.10. Gits just isnt it.
Matt0931 said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:22am | Report comment
Giteau would make a good winger in the Shane Williams mould. He’s to small to play in the midfield and doesn’t seem to know how to effectively read the game.
Frank O'Keeffe said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:20am | Report comment
The irony of that win is I thought Giteau’s kicking from hand was excellent. I’ve been critical of him in that area all year. But his kicking was a huge reason why Australia dominated territory and possession.
You don’t want to take anything away from Scotland, because that was one of the great defensive efforts, but gosh Australia choked. Stephen Moore should have scored. Quade Cooper should have, and normally would have, given the short ball to Hynes. Giteau normally would have potted all those missed penalties. Looking at this and last week, it’s almost like Paul McLean’s slump all over again.
Australia dominated territory and possession unlike any other Test this year, but there was no composure. I’m sure Australia’s backs will come under criticism, and they weren’t great. But truth be told Scotland’s defence was a bigger reason for that, than any crappyness from the Aussie backs.
It’s also ironic that the first poster to comment on the game was Knives Out. There’ll be some knives out after this game. It’s just been a horrid year for Australia.
I hope Deans doesn’t resign, or his job doesn’t come under review, Australia have improved in small ways this tour. They’re better in the forwards. Noriega has done wonders to the scrum as scrum coach. It’s mainly the line-out and the backs which have hindered Australia a lot.
I was disappointed Pocock didn’t play as well, especially after how he played last week.
Matt0931 said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:27am | Report comment
Pocock was busy working for the BBC commentary team tonight along with Lote Tuquri.
mother teresa said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:21am | Report comment
UGLY IS PLAIN;THAT DISGRACE WAS UNSIGHTLY;KEEP UNDERMINING GITEAU MR DEANS AND YOU GET LACK OF CONFIDENCE SUPERCOACH
Cattledog said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:22am | Report comment
Fantastic defensive game by Scotland. Here’s hoping Palu’s OK.
Matt0931 said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:29am | Report comment
Palu was having a cracker before he took his knock.
Hopefully he is not seriously injured
Damo said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:27am | Report comment
I said before the game that we were missing Mortlock (to mark O’Driscoll etc) We are. And we don’t have anyone like him coming through. Literally coming through the centre. But Scotland did defend extremely well. They did deserve the win . Ref was good . We have run out of ideas in the backs
pothale said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:29am | Report comment
Fantastic result by Scotland – well done to them. Am very pleased for Andy Robinson. Good start to the year for them – two wins under their belt against SH opposition.
Australia is not the only team that has gone to Edinburgh thinking they’ll get an easy win – even whilst downplaying it in public.
Just back from RDS and Ireland walloping Fiji even in the pouring rain, but plenty of running rugby from the boys in green, Fiji were kicking it for a lot of the game – what is it with SH teams and this kicking fascination?
Matt0931 said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:34am | Report comment
It was a good win to Ireland. I was flicking between matches. Ireland played well.
What is it with KO’s and Pothale’s fascination with SH kicking?
pothale said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:36am | Report comment
Well – the NH teams are the ones meant to be playing the kick-infested, dour NH game according to SH commentators, and we will have to look to the SH sides to see running, exciting rugby is what we’ve been told.
Don’t let me stop you. Keep kicking.
Matt0931 said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:50am | Report comment
lol, just stiring pothale!
Frank O'Keeffe said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:31am | Report comment
Actually yeah, the ref was fantastic. It’s one of the few times this year I hardly noticed the ref at all.
Anyway is this what happens when Giteau kicks well from hand – his place kicking goes astray?
Hopefully Palu is OK. I badly hurt my neck during a rugby game – fluke injuries happen all the time. Palu’s neck took a hell of a lot of brunt in that moment.
Bruce Ross said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:39am | Report comment
A great gutsy win against the odds to Scotland.
One very blatant tactic adopted by the Australian scrum was to prematurely wheel on Scotland’s feeds.
Law 20.1 (k) states:
Stationary and parallel. Until the ball leaves the scrum half’s hands, the scrum must be stationary and the middle line must be parallel to the goal lines.
The Australian pack was systematically shifting left meaning they were neither stationary nor parallel before the ball was put into the scrum. That this was a deliberate tactic was made obvious by the fact that the Wallabies stayed square whenever the referee moved to the non-feed side of the scrum.
Benny said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:40am | Report comment
Giteau – most overrated player in any rugby code in history. Just continues to choke in big moments but remains untouchable.
Matt0931 said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:54am | Report comment
I think I saw him crap his pants when he was lining up for that conversion kick.
Pete said | November 22nd 2009 @ 6:17am | Report comment
But imagine how poor we would be without him in the team. We’re lucky to have him.
Damo said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:58am | Report comment
No Giteau may not be overrated. He may just be unsupported (and out of position as many have argued). We badly miss the silky skills of a Larkham or on Ella . I don’t care if we make one or buy one. We just have to get one even if he happened to play a game without lineouts or rucks before he saw the light.
MM Fike said | November 22nd 2009 @ 6:04am | Report comment
Really honestly, what is wrong with this Wallaby team? I give up.
Anyway congratulations to Scotland. They deserved the win.
Mitch O said | November 22nd 2009 @ 6:13am | Report comment
One R. Deans
fred said | November 22nd 2009 @ 7:10am | Report comment
mitch, yes you nailed it in one R.DEANS ;look no further
Stalker said | November 22nd 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
The wallabies were crap before Deans turned up. They are just not listening to him and there is no depth to punish the players who choose to keep taking their pay without playing to their ability. Time and time again, we hear – “blame the coach” what a load of……. but… dont worry, Mr Deans will probably leave or be pushed soon, then who are you going to blame? Maybe the new Melbourne coach will step up – whoever that is?
Pete said | November 22nd 2009 @ 6:14am | Report comment
I’m not angry, just in a state of utter shock. Well done Scotland
My first thought is that the coaching staff have to go, but I hope that isn’t what happens. We’ll try and rebuild again and hope for the best in 2011. We’d ultimately do much more harm than good.
Cooper took poor options, the outside backs couldn’t finish and Giteau had a poor game with the point scoring boot. Another case of ‘if only’.
The only positive to come out of this is I hope it renews interest in the game in Scotland. Australia has taken a big hit, but hopefully the Scots can profit for the good of the game.
fred said | November 22nd 2009 @ 7:19am | Report comment
pete ;who actually coaches the lineout.the backs(62% possession)what does deans coach apart from telling us about the reality of the situation and the need for clarity he appears to hide behind the youth movement and denigrating senior players who in his opinion are not performing.can he only perform when he has all the aces,if so ,then imho he is not the solution and totally overrated
Pete said | November 22nd 2009 @ 7:46am | Report comment
Fred, but is the answer to throw out the coach? The Wallabies are in a precarious position. The team is inexperienced (not an excuse for losing) and believe it or not Deans does have a plan for the development towards 2011. If we throw everything out now and start again with a new coaching staff we are stuffed even more than what we are now.
Eddie Jones has a poor record as well, so we threw him out and brought in Connolly… and then we delivered our worse RWC performance despite having cattle like Gregan, Larkham, Latham, Mortlock, Tiquiri, Waugh, Smith, McMeniman, Elsom, Vickerman and Sharpe.
The players have to adapt to a new coaching philosophy, a new playing style and the new dynamics of the team structure because the hierarchy is altered. I am far from happy with how the Wallabies have developed under Deans. In hindsight perhaps he tried to change too much too quickly, but they were decisions that had to be made. If we undo this now and bring in someone else we will drop further and further back.
For better or worse this is what we have. It will bear fruit its just taking a hell of a lot longer than any of us (especially Deans) had planned.
Stalker said | November 22nd 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Very well put Pete….
Blinky Bill from Bellingen said | November 22nd 2009 @ 6:18am | Report comment
Wow I am happy I got up for that match or what?
First of all well done Scotland.
What happened to the Wallabies? Initially I kind of expected Robbie to field his B team. Just as well as we didn’t. The one positive to come out of it is that Scotland will quite rightly know they beat our best, and that’s going to be a good shot in the arm for Scottish Rugby.
Scotland played well enough but didn’t we just bugger up when ever possible? Ahhhk Mun ….. back to bed.
kingplaymaker said | November 22nd 2009 @ 6:26am | Report comment
You’re all off the point: Neither Deans nor Giteau were responsible for this disaster:
John O’Neill has removed Dan Vickerman last year, Lote Tuqiri, Timana Tahu, and Hugh Mcmenniman this year.
With those players Australia would not have lost this or other matches this year.
O’Neill is the guilty party.
Pete said | November 22nd 2009 @ 6:54am | Report comment
Vickerman left because he wanted a life after Rugby. Tahu left because he was struggling and was coerced back to League by Osbourne. McMenniman was chasing coin. Lote is the only one that could be directly attributed to JON. I’m a fan of Lote, but one man can’t make a team.
If we had Barnes, Sharpe or Mortlock we probably could have won… surely your not going to blame JON for that as well?
mother teresa said | November 22nd 2009 @ 7:05am | Report comment
KINGWHO,absolute nonsense,oneill doesnt coach.what youre effectively saying is if vickerman and mcm were playing deans would actually win.what if either got injured are we back to square one and out looking for another supercoach to develop and coach the wallies.and MCM DOES GET INJURED–CORRECT.
how much more delusion is there out there supporting the unsupportable
NOW WE WILL HEAR THE CATTLE CRY AGAIN;PITIFUL
MM Fike said | November 22nd 2009 @ 6:33am | Report comment
Is it possible we will win only one match on this tour? I think it is.
We wont get anywhere until we have one world class lock and one very good one. We need two top locks .
And yeah, I’m still in shock at this loss.
fred said | November 22nd 2009 @ 7:38am | Report comment
FIKE,yes its still a shock even tho the writing has been on the wall clouded by those in denial.i agree with MT that we will have the optimists/apologists spinning us more BS suggesting no one could coach the wallabies to success.
Dublin Dave said | November 22nd 2009 @ 8:55am | Report comment
I was watching Ireland Fiji on telly and “keeping an eye” on other games via teletext. The score from Murrayfiled seemed to be stuck permanently at 3-3 so I figured there was something wrong with the system or the person sending in the score up dates had disappeared to the bar.
Then I saw the result was 9-8?? Is that the lowest scoring Australian match in decades?
Based on the evidence of the match against Ireland last week, it seems to me that Deans is trying to build a winning pack of forwards for Australia. Once he has that in place, he may try to win using a more structured and conservative game or he may try and combine it with some exciting back playsuch as that which Australians were famous for in the past, but in the meantime, a bit like a golfer changing his swing, the Australian backs are being ignored as an attacking force while the main effort is concentrated elsewhere.
That is as charitable an outlook as can be made at this time.
But let’s not discount the possibility that Scotland are actually beginning to find a team again. As was noted in the thread about team’s histories, fallow periods tend to give way to better times if you can keep the faith with your game. Certainly, in the case of the Scots, some good fortune has been a long time coming.