By Michael DiFabrizio
November 22nd 2009 @ 1:37am
Related coverage
Publicity the chief motivator for AFL’s expansion signings
Karmichael Hunt addresses the media after defecting from the NRL to AFL signing with the Gold Coast
The Karmichael Hunt and Kevin Sheedy experiments may very well end up unmitigated success stories that go on to revolutionise the way we look at both recruiting and coaching. But something tells me the main reason they’ve been snapped up isn’t all that football-related.
Consider that Hunt, the rugby league convert signed to play for the Gold Coast, will line up in just two of his side’s VFL matches next year after returning from his stint playing union in France.
A bridging season in the reserves seemed like the perfect avenue to gradually facilitate his code switch, yet it seems he’ll be largely on the sidelines instead.
Consider also that Sheedy, the legendary coach signed to steer the new Greater Western Sydney outfit, will not be in charge of the team that lines up in the TAC Cup next year, despite it being the first year of his contract. He will take the helm in the team’s VFL preparatory season and their first AFL season.
Then his contract expires. And already people are speaking about possible succession plans and post-2012 replacements.
It makes you wonder just how serious both these signings were.
It’s not as if league players defect to footy all the time. It’s not as if Sheedy is the most in-demand coach, either. He wasn’t deemed suitable for Melbourne’s coaching gig two years ago. This year, he was unwanted by North Melbourne and farcically entered then withdrew from the Richmond race.
As far as the football side of things go, Hunt is just another cap-exempt rookie – a gamble.
As for Sheedy, he’s just another experienced coach placed in a mentor role. It’s the same as Ron Barassi at Sydney in 1993.
In other words, Hunt – despite his salary – will not be an integral part of his side’s list. Sheedy’s role, too, may not be the be-all and end-all for his side. He’s not expected to guide them to a premiership, which would’ve been the case if he’d ended up at a Richmond or North Melbourne.
After all, despite the fact it is looked back on positively, Barassi’s three-year stint at the Swans saw that team finish 15th, 15th and 12th.
So what’s all the fuss about? Why would the AFL try so desperately to land a player who has never played at the elite level and a coach that has been written off by the existing clubs?
Well, the answer should be obvious. They both have a value to these new teams that goes beyond their playing and coaching abilities.
They attract publicity.
And for two brand new clubs without much of an identity at all, that publicity is worth its weight in gold.
Front pages around the country featured the Gold Coast’s newest recruit holding up a jumper with the team colours and logo. Newspapers ran with the story of Team GWS and its first coach as if it were the killer blow that knocked out the NRL for good.
The stories filtered through TV sets, radio sets and the internet. They were major news. Major enough to put two teams that hadn’t even entered the AFL yet well and truly in the national spotlight.
Because of that, the signings have already paid off.
According to the Sport Confidential section of the Herald Sun yesterday, research has revealed the Sheedy signing “would have cost the AFL $6,414,200 in advertising if it had to pay for the coverage.” Hunt’s signing was valued at $7.5 million.
Whether or not that’s entirely accurate is irrelevant. There’s no doubting the value of the publicity caused by the signings exceeds what the two teams will be paying for the two men in salaries, and their journeys have only just begun.
Hunt’s every step will be monitored by the media from here on in. Even in his later years, Sheedy was spruiking his way into news bulletins. It will be the same up in Sydney’s west.
From a marketing perspective, both moves were masterstrokes.
From a football perspective, time will tell.
But something tells me they’ve already made good on the investment made by the AFL and its two new clubs. Anything from here will just be a bonus.
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Kurt said | November 22nd 2009 @ 2:30am | Report comment
Agree re. Hunt, this was clearly a PR stunt that MAY return dividends on the field but is high risk. Have to disagree about Sheeds through – yes his signing did attract publicity, but it’s not like the guy doesn’t have a coaching track record. It seems to me the idea of getting in an experienced heavy hitter to put in place the structures, start building a culture etc. is an entirely reasonable idea. Then after a year or two at the helm they bring in a younger guy who transitions in a’la Malthouse & Buckley. Even if Sheedy attracted zero publicity for the new club it’s still a pretty sound plan.
sam.gilbert said | November 22nd 2009 @ 3:36am | Report comment
obviously. did anyone ever doubt that it was for publicity?
Firestarter Bob said | November 22nd 2009 @ 4:54am | Report comment
Sheedy’s focused on China, Hunt’s playing rugby in France. Speaks for itself.
Redb said | November 22nd 2009 @ 5:31am | Report comment
When the teams are still 2 and 3 years away publicity is exactly what you would want when announcing positions,etc Not hard to understand.
Great news about Paul Kelly (former Swans player) joining GWS in a development role in the Wagga region. Is that about publicity?
These are all pieces to the puzzle some of the developments dont make the big news consequently some people get a skewed view. They only know about GC17 and GWS from the head lines and rarely read the detail and other important developments.
Redb
Firestarter Bob said | November 22nd 2009 @ 7:59am | Report comment
“Great news about Paul Kelly (former Swans player) joining GWS in a development role in the Wagga region. Is that about publicity?”
When was the last time the signing of a talent scout was given so much coverage? It’s another stunt, but not quite in the Sheedy & Hunt class.
Coincidence that all these GWS announcements are all happening in the off season.
danwighton said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:54am | Report comment
I dont think there is any doubt that the Hunt signing was motivated by publicity – there is no way that the GC team looked at their 2011 roster saying “we need someone” – “lets get that Hunt guy, the guy who played the sport for a brief period at high school, he could really tie up our midfield and show us how to tackle.” It was clearly to put the new team in everyone’s mind – even if you love or hate league or AFL or love or hate Hunt, I can guarantee you will be watching that first game to see whether he gets smashed or whether he “shows those guys how its done”.
The Sheedy signing had an element of PR to it, but at the same time seems a somewhat wise decision considering his track record and experience with developing young players. A lot more people in NSW and Qld know who Karmichael is than know who Sheedy is, but even so, it shows that the AFL are at battle stations.
What does stand out from both appointments is that it could be a great failure, or a great success – they are both a real gamble.
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 6:44am | Report comment
Dan,
The people who question Sheedy perhaps dont know they are dealing with. Sheedy is hardly a risky strategy given his mandate – perfect man for the job would be my take, but hey he only coached my team for 27 years.
It’s not the AFL that are at battle stations I’d say that is the NRL/RL. All the war rhetoric is emanating from that camp including just recently Steve Mortimor.
Hunt is about lot of things. You are right the first match will attract significiant attention.
As a ‘poached’ RL recruit though, Hunt’s situation is quite unique. He played a few Aussie Rules games at school clearly showed enough to attract the attention of AFL talent scouts who thought who was obviously suited to the game. It not as if the AFL has chased Fui Fui Moi Moi.
It’s all been said before but Hunt was leaving the NRL regardless, he is known as Queenslander (although born in NZ), played a position in RL as fullback that is closest in skill set to what an AFL player would need,etc.
so yes the publicity would have been top of mind but no-one can say as yet whether it will be a success. IMO the AFL does not want a whole heap of professional RL players to convert, it’s about developing earlier pathways.
Hunt maybe seen as the marquee player by RL people for GC17, but in AFL terms GC17 was chasing a Kurt Tippett or a Garry Ablett, still some time to go before the Gold Coast team hits the ground in 2011. If GC managed to get Tippett and Ablett (both unlikely now) than they would be the marquee players, Hunt is the interesting recruit but hardly the marquee player.
His salary obviously has a large publicity component – which has already been paid for a couple of times already. Still much more to go, given the skill conversion journey he will be on. Newspapers will monitor his every step – that is gold for a new club.
Redb
AndyRoo said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
I think Sheedy is a great appointment. I think it’s AFL people that underestimate him the most. I know that the current trend in Aussie rules is to get the next best young thing as that has been successful of late … the way Collingwood fawned over securing Michael Buckley made me sick when they already have a great coach in place.
Sheedy loves footy he will catch up with the play. The way people talk about him like he is too old you would think he is often found in the park talking to the ducks asking him how to get home.
They’re putting together a group of young players in a hostile media market. They absolutely need someone experienced like Sheedy and I think the AFL just plan on him building the club and then moving on.
I think they will get a surprise when he asks for an extension and the fans of GWS (may not be many) want him to stay too (unless they get the spoon). The fans won’t want too see the coach shafted so some one else can come in and take advantage of his good work. That might be ok for the Eastern Suburbs based Swans but not a westy team.
Could you imagine Wegner or Ferguson building a good young team and then retiring into the sunset.
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
Agree.
His great ability has been to always think outside the square and he is a terrific spruiker of sport.
Recruitment is his passion, he’ll love the more global nature of Sydney and its influence in the Pacific Isles and beyond.
Redb
Simmo said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
“Coincidence that all these GWS announcements are all happening in the off season.”
Not at all. I doff my hat to the AFL. They know how to fight the PR war and manage the media cycle.
I wish Sydney FC, an existing club, with an existing fan base and existing player stories got the same coverage as this proto-club. I’m jealous.
LK said | November 22nd 2009 @ 6:18am | Report comment
Kelly is yet to sign on. He would be good for GWS though. Sheedy gives GWS some sort of credibility, even if he is past it. Hunt is nothing but a stunt.
James said | November 23rd 2009 @ 10:10am | Report comment
Don’t worry about Kelly…expect an announcement mid week
“Coincidence that all these GWS announcements are all happening in the off season.”
Why wouldn’t they? The team is running a year behind the Gold Coast…this time last year they were in similar positions.
Of course they will announce during the off season. Spring Racing Carnival is over, Tiger is over, lack lustre Cricket and A-league are in town. Get in before Christmas and new year (Tennis).
Out of left field, and I am ready to be shot down, but imagine if the following ACT/NSW identities signed up in next years off season to keep the publicity bubbling along….:
1. Wayne Carey – Wagga Legend and has stated he would look at roles in football in the future (competiion to come from Gold Coast and North melbourne)
2. James Hird – Canberra Legend and could be groomed as an Assistant to Sheeds (obviously worked well as Captain/coach relationship in past) or perhaps as a potential Board member (Obvious competition to come from Essendon)
3. Tony Lockett – the big banana himself…now lives in Bowral. Exceptionally unlikley he would come back into the public spotlight but what a coup if they gave him a role coaching the forwards! Would take him no time to drive from Bowral to Sydney’s west…
Freud of Football said | November 22nd 2009 @ 6:33am | Report comment
Hunt will fail, pure and simple. Sheedy will succeed only this won’t be visible for the first few years, his job will be to create a football club, more than to coach a team.
kick,clap,kick said | November 22nd 2009 @ 8:44am | Report comment
As a qld RL fan i do not know of one person who will attend a AFL game to watch him play..Most call him a money grabbing traitor.
danwighton said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:55am | Report comment
I think every Qld RL fan will have at least some curiosity in his first game, whether if they want him to succeed or fail.
Freud of Football said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:09am | Report comment
Whether he even makes it into a squad is the real question and I cannot see it happening. The publicity has been great and there will be immense pressure on the coach to pick him but he won’t be up to scratch, it’ll be like Lockett returning from retirement, he simply wasn’t up to scratch and was a passenger.
M1tch said | November 24th 2009 @ 9:20am | Report comment
first game they play it will be a sell out and rate pretty well, after that its still AFL lol
oikee said | November 22nd 2009 @ 9:13am | Report comment
I dont think it really matters who fails or who goes well, the main aim is obviously to get a game on T/V every week-end in Brisbane and Sydney, so its a win/ win, no matter what happens. How long the party lasts is and should be the AFL main concern.
I have no problem with what the AFL is trying to acheive, as long as rugby, rugby league and soccer all get televised down South, and i mean across the 3 states. Thats on FTA by the way. I think its time they opened up competition for the AFL south of the border, they have enjoyed monopoly for long enough. Well lets face facts, they dont even know what rugby is. ?? According to AFL fans.
The new stadium will open alot of people’s eyes down their i think, watching all the happy punters enjoying themselves in a world class stadium, good luck to them i say.
You going to a game Redb, ? M.C. ?
Freud of Football said | November 22nd 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
I can’t see Hunt even getting a game, yes the publicity is fantastic but there will be articles on The Roar in 4 years time saying how Hunt could have been anything but AFL ruined him. He will not be able to adapt, it simply isn’t doable.
TammyS said | November 22nd 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
with the amount of money they’ve thrown at him, they would have to let him play or they’ll just look stupid. I think he will play even he is crap at it. They might only just give him a few games though but they will play him
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 6:58am | Report comment
Freud,
He will definitely play if fit. There is no doubt his tackling pressure will be important in the game, especially in the forward line as forwards deploy zones to pressure defences when they are kicking out after a behind. This is all about real and perceived pressure, staying tight on your opponent and chasing them down.
He will play just dont expect him to play on the ball.
Redb
Kurt said | November 22nd 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Can’t speak for the other AFL fans but I’ll certainly be heading along to watch the Storm play at the new stadium when I’m back in Melbourne. As for televising league in the southern states, suggest you speak with Mr Gallop about that one.
oikee said | November 22nd 2009 @ 10:42am | Report comment
Good one Kurt, hope you enjoy it, mate if i lived in Melbourne i would be a gold member,. The Storm and their supporters are just arwesome. Not to mention their players.
Not sure about K.Hunt, i think he will go ok with AFL. To be honest, he might find it rather easy only playing 30 minute intervals.
Michael C said | November 22nd 2009 @ 8:16pm | Report comment
oikee-
you know as a matter of principle that I have to boycott the only 100% publicly funded stadium in the state…….if for no other reason than they stuffed the roof!!!!! (ruddy twits).
Televising down south…….that’s got to do with the administration of each code isn’t it…..and how much of a ‘hit’ or otherwise they’re willing to absorb.
Lazza said | November 23rd 2009 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
Commercial TV Stations will televise anything if it gets them ratings. At the moment neither sport can attract a significant audience in their non-traditional half of the country. As a consequence games are on at midnight or not at all.
Waiting a century before you start thinking seriously about expanding the game is going to make things difficult if not impossible. Both sports may never be national sports in this country and you can blame those who had been running the game for the last 100 years for that. If they had any brains or foresight we would be watching both sports now.
AndyRoo said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
The AFL stole the march on other codes by making sure they were televised in NSW and QLD at decent times.
It will be interesting too see what happens after the next media deals. Whichever codes CEO’s fail to get some of their product on FTA at a decent time in all/most markets have done their code a disservice. A big thanks to the AFL for showing the other codes how to stick up for yourself about something important and I hope Gallop, Buckley and Oneil were paying attention.
The AFL virtually have a monopoly on FTA Football in SA, WA and Vic. That’s the other codes problem not AFL’s but it would be interesting too see Melbourne opened up and how they react.
In NSW/QLD I feel we are much luckier with 3 NRl games/ 3 or 4 AFL Games/ Rugby Test matches all in prime time.
Though HAL and Super 14 are suffering as a result of being only on pay TV.
Firestarter Bob said | November 22nd 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
While everyone is transfixed by these media stunts, the real show is going on via the Crawford report.
The AFL hijacked the review on Australian sport, completely turning it around from a focus on Australians in international competition into one where the government instead funds grassroots and school sport.
So all around the country we will soon see new sports fields and a demand for off the shelf sport in school programs, one that meets the needs of female school teachers and cotton wool parents.
Who wil be ready to step up?
The AFL with its female school teacher & parent friendly Auskick, as well as a demand that those new sports fields be oval in shape just to cater for all sports (because if they were rectangular then you know who would miss out).
The Crawford report is a Trojan Horse with AFL soldiers inside.
Redb said | November 22nd 2009 @ 8:10pm | Report comment
What rot. All the football codes along with cricket, netball, hockey are part of the recommendations.
The paranoia is extraordinary.
Everyone agrees the AFL is the best administered sport, consequently if your doing a sports review why wouldnt you involve the best administrators in the country.
Redb
Kurt said | November 22nd 2009 @ 11:32pm | Report comment
Quite right. Via the mechanism of the Crawford report the AFL will deny funding to its traditional rivals for the hearts, minds and wallets of Australians such as archery, skeleton and skeet-shooting, whilst increasing funding for sports that are in absolutely no way rivals to the AFL such as soccer, league, union, basketball and hockey.
Lazza said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
The report concluded that Australians aren’t that bothered with being “World Beaters”, international sporting success or the Olympics? What a lot of nonsense and only an AFL dominated comittee would come up with something like that.
The Olympics are important and this country has always enjoyed our international sporting success and heroes.
Pippinu said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
Lazza
There’s no evidence of whether what you are saying is correct or not.
Crawford sought input from everyone, almost pleaded for some figures to support this contention, but none was forthcoming.
The ABC show, Offsiders, stood ouside Flinders St STation for over an hour, asking people if they could name one gold medal winner from 2008 – it took someone more than an hour to come up with Stephanie Rice (I have to admit, even I had forgotten all about her).
Twelve years ago there was almost an identical report to this one produced – that the cost of supporting elite Olympians would mushroom into the hundreds of milloins of dollars while our young population became even more obese – this has come to pass.
Lazza said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
The Olympics are full of niche sports and this global event gives them their time in the limelight. When it’s on we know who they are but after a few years we’ll only remember the ones that stand out with multiple gold medals etc.
Don’t start with the children’s health debate. If it’s all about childrens health then we shouldn’t be putiing them in brutal, collision sports should we?
Pippinu said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
Niche sports? That’s a bit of euphemism!!
Let’s be honest – 85% of the Olympics are made up of bull $hit events that the average Australian does not give a damn about.
Lazza said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
Most countries in the world don’t follow those niche sports except for the Olympics. So you’re admitting that the AFL and NRL won’t ever get any interest beyond these shores because no-one cares about those sports? They don’t have a global sports event to capture the imagination or interest. What’s going to drive their expansion then?
Simmo said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
true. Even for futbol fans the Olympics was an exercise in frustration. Watching Graham Arnold coached youngsters makes one fear for the future.
Once we were knocked out of the tournament it didn’t hurt. the Olympics is no where near as important as the World Cup.
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
Saw that, I reckon Steve Hooker has a good profile for a non swimmer – bit surprised. Dont know what it proved to be honest. The Crawford report is now being used by some as just another excuse to bash AFL, pathetic really.
AndyRoo said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
I saw that too, I thought of Rice but that was the only one I was sure off. I know who Hooker is but I it didn’t spring to mind.
Firestarter Bob said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
The Insiders conveniently had an all AFL panel too. No Roy Masters or Jacklin Magnay. Both spoke out against the Crawford report on Saturday and both pointed out the AFL connections. Neither were on The Insiders yesterday and none of panel saw anything but good in the recommendations.
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
Both are insular hacks all too quick to attack the AFL. Objectivity not a strong suit for either.
No Caro Wilson either what does that mean?
Redb
Firestarter Bob said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
being a big issue you would think they might like to canvass the issue from all perspectives.
Pippinu said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
Gideon is a cricket person, and the SEN bloke is a strong soccer person.
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
Hmmm… might mean the AFL and NRL seasons are over.
bever fever said | November 23rd 2009 @ 10:47pm | Report comment
Are you for real FB, next you will be telling us that the AFL signed Hunt as retaliation for rugby league signing Dally Messenger in 1908. ( who played a couple of seasons with Easts AFL club in Sydney)
Perhaps you should have a closer look at the crawford report.
And what do you mean about cotton wool parents and female teachers, unless you have had your head in the sand this has been going on for about 20 years.
A lot of one child families around and this is what tends to happen as a result of this.
Firestarter Bob said | November 24th 2009 @ 6:23am | Report comment
So Messenger played AFL? I doubt it.
MyGeneration said | November 24th 2009 @ 6:36am | Report comment
Messenger spent some time in South Melbourne as a kid and played the local game. Doubt he was too concerned about code wars at the time. The games were probably a lot closer together in nature in those days as well.
bever fever said | November 24th 2009 @ 9:03am | Report comment
Yep Messenger played aussie rules in Sydney as did his 2 brothers, was pretty good as the story goes, stolen by money from league.
M1tch said | November 24th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
he played union first then went to league…
so really rah rah stole him :O
Michael C said | November 24th 2009 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Sean Fagan referenced quotes about Messenger:
Born in Sydney, he learned his kicking skills growing up in South Melbourne watching some of the greats who played Australian Rules.
Dally spent a part of his teenage years in South Melbourne, where he learnt to play Australian Rules. He attended the Albert Park Public School – the same school that produced Roy Cazaly barely a decade later.
Messenger was involved in negotiations between the VFL and NSWRL to merge Australian Rules with rugby league in 1908 – the hybrid game was to be called “Australeague”.
Both of Dally’s younger brothers chose to play Australian rules instead of rugby. Rumours persist that Dally played for the East Sydney club in 1903 (where Victor Trumper was the secretary) before deciding to seriously take up rugby two seasons later.
Dally Messenger, the greatest footballer to ever grace the rugby codes, had played Australian football for two seasons while living at Albert Park (South Melbourne) – he had idolised Essendon’s Albert Thurgood and Melbourne’s Pat O’Dea, two of the greatest kickers in Australian Football history.
“It would be the most wonderful thing in the world of sport if a game could be evolved containing the best features of rugby league and Australian rules,” said Messenger.
ANd Firestarter – you need to understand that RL founder Victor Trumper had 5 years earlier worked together with politician Edward O’Sullivan to establish an 11 team Aust Football league in Sydney (inspired by federation and a desire to be more ‘Australian’).
It was predominantly the financial success of the NZ based ‘All Golds’ tour that fully swayed Trumpber, Giltinan and included and effectively secured Messenger.
Pippinu said | November 22nd 2009 @ 10:53am | Report comment
This is a link to the full report:
http://www.sportpanel.org.au/internet/sportpanel/publishing.nsf/Content/crawford-report
The letter of transmission says very clearly that the review was aimed at both grassroots and elite levels (and rightly so).
The report itself asks a legitimate question: what does the community get back for the hundreds of millions of dollars of annual Federal funding aimed squarely at Olympic sports?
The answer appears to be ambiguous at best (which is a damning indictment in itself).
Lazza said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
Ask the British, they’ll tell you how much they enjoyed the last Olympics. Everyone around the world is copying our techniques, pinching our coaches and we’re going to throw all that away now.
How about sporting diversity? Are only the big spectactor and participation sports going to get funding now?
oikee said | November 22nd 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
I really dont have a problem with funding for our sports codes, (soccer, afl, league, and Union? question mark because they are elite-ist.) But to fund the other 3 codes, and lets face it, these are our sports we love, will open up more oppotunities for more young kids to earn a really good living, not just one athlete (javelin, high-jump) that really only struth their stuff once every 4 years, and then, has little chance of winning, we only remember the guy who won.
So , as England are finally doing with funding for other sports(league, union, and probably afl if they got their fingers out) makes more sense than throwing all their money at Arts, Opera and Olympic athletes, that produce very little for so few. (athletes)
Time the government woke up and smelt the roses. I have a better idea how to help our Olympic athletes, at the beginning or end of the season, just have a 4 code mini Olympics, and the best in those areas can compete for OZ at the Olympics… we could further open this area up by inviting guys and girls who may not even play one of the codes, but are funded by a certain code to compete for them at this mini tournament, and deliver that code bragging rights, if they win.
Mate, the oikster is light years out there.
way out in deep space.
Firestarter Bob said | November 22nd 2009 @ 11:03am | Report comment
“will open up more oppotunities for more young kids to earn a really good living”.
Really? Unless there are more teams how are there more opportunites?
Pippinu said | November 22nd 2009 @ 11:18am | Report comment
I’m not 100% sure where Oikee is coming from, but it is true that the 4 football comps (NRL, AFL, super 14s and A-League), along with Cricket Australia, provide opportunities for young Australians to become professional sportspeople, and in quite large numbers as well (the AFL alone will have about 800 professional footballers by the time the 18th team comes in – so in total, the number must be pushing 3,000 in just those 5 examples mentioned).
At the moment, virtually all of that is happening with minimal government support.
At the other end of the spectrum, hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars per annum are directed at getting about 400 Olympians ready for a once-every-four-years event.
It is quite legitimate to ask ourselves: is this good use of taxpayer money?
oikee said | November 22nd 2009 @ 11:20am | Report comment
Well for a start Bob, they would have a chance at all codes, instead of just 1. So any kid not quite cut for soccer, might be a star at AFL, and vice Versa. A league player not quite cutting the mustard might be able to kick a soccer ball with gutso. So you vertually open-up a whole new area for future stars. Instead of just turning up to your AFL sessions and never really going to make it because you have not got body-type. Same as league, to tall to ever make top grade, but would make a fantastic AFL player, and aboriginal kids who might be great soccer players.? but we might never know. So, its endless.
Firestarter Bob said | November 22nd 2009 @ 11:48am | Report comment
What are talking about?
All of these football codes are available to every kid throughout Australia right now.
For example there are junior rugby league teams in Victoria and there are “playAFL” teams in Sydney’s west.
Pippinu said | November 22nd 2009 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
But the question raised by the Crawford report remains an open one:
Do you improve grassroots sports participation by pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into a handful of Olympians, or do you put most of that money into junior leagues and clubs (of whatever persuasion).
My guess is that if you had a public/private funding model, where the Commonwealth matched every dollar the AFL puts into its Auskick program, that $1 dollar of government funding in that direction will get far, far more kids playing sport than $1 dollar directed at winning a gold medal in Archery or Tae-Kwon-Do.
Firestarter Bob said | November 22nd 2009 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
…while also conveniently delivering a partially government funded AFL propoganda fund.
Firestarter Bob said | November 22nd 2009 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
Schools are not recruiting grounds.
It’s a pity that groups such as the Public Schools Principals Forum can correctly see the ulterior motives of the Commonweatlh Bank http://www.smh.com.au/national/alarm-over-banks-bid-to-sign-up-schoolkids-20091121-is3w.html but can’t see that the football codes and cricket are doing to exactly the same within their schools.
If the government decides to fund school sport, it should do it directly. Not via AFL or any other sports body that runs a professional competition.
Pippinu said | November 22nd 2009 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
FB
As the report correctly says, some very big, popular sports get next to zero government funding: cricket, AFL, two rugbies (all are mentioned), whereas some Olympic sports that have next to zero participation rates or interest get millions of dollars in direct government funding.
Now if the sole objective is to stay top five on the Olympic tally, whatever the cost, then yes, we need to continue pouring in hundreds of millions of dollars into that effort, forever, with the overall cost doubling about every 2nd Olympics.
If the objective is to get kids to play sport – then that occurs at school and junior league/club level.
Clearly, in terms of value for the taxpayer, the government dollar will run much further in conjunction with a body like the AFL (who would take on the bulk of the administration and funding).
AndyRoo said | November 22nd 2009 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
Roy Masters did a good piece on the dangers of just backing an AFL only program. It then becomes about finding talent rather than participation. Better the kids get access to a medley of sports as it’s more likely to find domething they like.
Pippinu said | November 22nd 2009 @ 6:34pm | Report comment
AndyRoo
Agree 100%. It has to be part of a mix – that goes without saying.
Imagine three terms of 12 weeks each, split into six sports options that run for 6 weeks a piece.
You’d say that cricket, soccer, netball and athletics would pretty much take up 4 of the six spots all over Australia, and then the other two options could be chosen from:
Auskick
Touch footy
T-ball
Basketball
Hockey
etc.
But to make something lke this work – pretty much half of what’s currently going to Olympic funding would need to be redirected to something like this.
My point about mentioning the AFL is that they are in a position to double or treble each dollar the Government would put into such a program as they already have a school ready program in Auskick.
AndyRoo said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
The gist of Masters gib was that he was part of “Aussie Sports” that came up with Kanga Cricket, Mod League, Auskick and combined with a few other sports kids could play them all and if you played in 4 of them you got a certificate/medal.
Cricket Australia (who were representative of most sports) weren’t interested because plastic bats and rubber balls weren’t going to produce good Cricket players. The program was genuinely just about participation not building any brands and that doesn’t serve in the self interest of any professional sport.
The AFL weren’t happy that touch football was included for example.
There is nothing in it for the AFL to be involved, it won’t produce AFL quality players and in places like WA/SA and Vic means kids would be exposed to non AFL sports as part of the program. Why would AFL help pay for something that would mean little Jimmy gets to throw a cut out pass for the first time in his life.
It’s a health initiative rather than a sports initiative, more sports participation saves you money on health services.
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
AndyRoo,
Anything Roy Masters says about AFL should be challenged for its truthfulness, he hates the AFL and will spin any story to suit his pro league agenda, which includes making the AFL look like the bad guy at every opportunity.
Dont beleive a word of it.
Redb
oikee said | November 22nd 2009 @ 11:13am | Report comment
And just to top it off, because i really dont mind a bit of Classical music, and i saw this at the NFL football the other day, ( a whole band full of trombones all playing, ) but get the arts involved in the game, i would love to be sitting their listening to “symphony No5 in C major , 1st movement” as greg Inglis scored another cracking try.
oikee said | November 22nd 2009 @ 11:36am | Report comment
Sorry, it was c minor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evr7pgSsVoo
JF said | November 22nd 2009 @ 11:52am | Report comment
Oikee the arts patron, didn’t see that coming!
oikee said | November 22nd 2009 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
So yes, i am very knowleagable about the arts. Cheers. I can tell the difference between Worcester and “crown devon”, the poor mans Worcester.
Marshall said | November 22nd 2009 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Sheedy’s signing makes more sense than Hunts. At least he can be used in an ambassadorial role if he isn’t coaching. If Hunt doesn’t play, what good is he?
The guru said | November 22nd 2009 @ 4:03pm | Report comment
Afl would be way down the list for receiving any sort of government funding. It’s true participation rates are quite low. It’s not an Olympic sport and has zero international presence. The government should direct funding to major participation sports that still have an international presence. Cycling, tennis swimming soccer.
Pippinu said | November 22nd 2009 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
The question is about getting kids playing sport – about cost-effective ways of getting lots of kids playing sport.
Talk of international compeition actually confuses the discussion – this is how we ended up with hundreds of millions of dollars going to a handful of Olympians while we continue going through an obesity epidemic.
The Guru said | November 22nd 2009 @ 9:38pm | Report comment
I agree pippinu, it is about getting as many kids playing sport as possible, but there nothing like a nation behind a team or one of our countrymen taking on the rest of the world. national pride sort of stuff. The problem with the Olympic funding is the only goal is to be in the top 5 medal tally. There needs to be a balance. Funding high participation sports with international pathways. I’m not saying no funding for Afl at grassroots level, just the funding should be weighted.
Redb said | November 22nd 2009 @ 10:01pm | Report comment
national pride has little to do with combating child obesity. too much focus on gold medals and not enough on the main sports Australians play which includes AFL football.
Michael C said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
the dilemma of funding grassroots for a sport with professional elite level privately owned franchises I see as a bit dodgey…..at what point is it still a sport and at what point is it private industry?
if for example the A-League benefits within the domestic sector because by your equation, soccer gets heaps of funding to ensure that their ’small sided games’ for kids can be free and the AFL auskick is undercut by a govt subsidised ‘competitor’…..is that what you envisage?
To me – that would be unfair govt meddling in a business market place…..as it is there days.
The best thing govt can do is improve sports facilities in schools and after school program avaiability – - ensuring a greater ability for sports bodies to access rebates or incentives to get off their butts and run programs and engage further with their local communities. Primary schools are a clear example where a lack of male teachers has deprived many kids of a broader spectrum of sports experience/guidance.
basically – - don’t just through cash at it – - but, make cash available for those who are pro-active enough to effectively generate it.
Lazza said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
Football has to compete on a Global level against nations that pour a lot of money into football development. If we want to succeed in these sports we have fund them properly.
There is nothing stopping the AFL from getting kids to play the game with all the money they have and publicity they get. The only thing that stops more kids playing the game is the fear that a lot of parents have with collision sports. It’s not an unfounded fear either. There was an article in the paper here from a doctor who’s seen some of the horrific injuries that occur in the AFL and just aren’t publicised for fear of scaring off parents. At the elite level you have proper umpires, video and a lot of scrutiny. At the lower ranks and junior levels you don’t.
Michael C said | November 23rd 2009 @ 4:37pm | Report comment
There’s still this soccer myth of being ’safer’,
in a particular US example re ‘children’ playing/training the injury rate per 100 kids: baseball, 1.7; softball, 1.0; soccer, 2.1; and (US)football, 1.5.
However, of those, for soccer, 1% were ’serious’ and in US Football 14% were serious.
So, ironically, more likely to get injured from soccer, but, more likely to be seriously injured from US Football.
but, back 10 years ago,
The epidemiology of sports and active recreation injury in the Latrobe Valley
Monash University Accident Research Centre – Report #151 – 1999
rates of population participation per 10,000 persons over 4 years of age were:
walking 2,315/10,000;
swimming 746;
bicycling 710;
basketball 712;
Australian football 477.
The rank order of medically treated injury frequency by sport, however, was Australian football, basketball, bicycling, netball, cricket and soccer.
the highest rates of injury per 1,000 participants were:
cricket (242/1,000),
horse riding (122/1,000),
soccer (107/1,000),
netball (51/1,000) and
Australian football (37/1,000).
Almost one-half (47%) of self-reported injuries in the community survey were inconsequential
Soccer actually came up worse in this survey.
around that time, Monash Uni Accident research centre document titled “Preventing Soccer Injuries”,
back then, with in 1997, 270,000 registered soccer players, soccer represented 8.1% of adult and 6% of child sports related injuries presenting to hospital emergency dept’s.
Soccer ranking then, 3rd for adults and 5th for children in such terms.
Main types – general sprains, strains etc that all the codes will suffer,
Lower limb injuries esp ankles/knees due being kicked/collisions/tackles
Head injury – associated with headers, either high impact ball ’strike’, head to head or head to boot
others inc. falls, overuse, over-exertion and general being struck by the ball
anyone claiming soccer is ’safe’ is stretching the friendship.
Redb said | November 22nd 2009 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
What do you base that on? NSW ?
In Vic, SA, WA AFL football rivals soccer in participation. In NSW ,the rugby codes are dwarfed by soccer.
oikee said | November 22nd 2009 @ 4:13pm | Report comment
Exactly Guru, and soccer would probably get near the most, followed by rugby’s and Cycling, tennis and maybe even Golf. Golf could be the big winner. Hate to admit that, but have to face facts, anyone can play golf at any age really, so it is a popular sport that can earn you Billions. Tiger.?
Midfielder said | November 22nd 2009 @ 7:10pm | Report comment
Pip
The Terrorgraph ran a back page story saying they would offer a RL player 1.5 million… Is 1.5 million a normal wage for a top AFL player.
M1tch said | November 22nd 2009 @ 9:02pm | Report comment
well the most obvious article ever written..
GC17 had no profile before Hunt and neither did WS18, AFL do it better
What other code who sign a professional sportsman from an entirely different sport to be face of the game? Not since Michael Jordan tried Baseball (and wasnt that a success
)
I loved how people gloated about Demetriou luring him with a cuppa team, then he couldnt back away fast enough from the story.
Deja Roo said | November 22nd 2009 @ 9:21pm | Report comment
Jordan left Basketball on his own for a shot at the majors. It was his childhood dream…………….or his fathers, either way.
Whether Hunt makes it or not the AFL has generated millions in publicity that they would have otherwise had to pay for. Hunt defecting from RL on the back pages across Australia holding a GC17 jumper is huge. If he makes it at AFL level then thats a bonus i guess.
Pippinu said | November 22nd 2009 @ 10:44pm | Report comment
And – we’re all fascinated as to whether he can or he can’t – whichever way it goes – it’s an interesting story.
The man said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
I expect the next couple of years to be full of similar stunts in trying to get the GWS whatevers as much column inches in Sydney as possible.
I can’t wait for the endless “Inglis to play for the Westies” speculation in the press for the next 3 years – particularly around the end on any half decent players contract date. Just add it to the list of prospective moves to SL, Japan/French union. What a yawn.
It would be nice if the AFL just saved the hoopla till they actually had a roster and some prospect of being able to watch them. Surely it is just going to take the focus of the Swans and they need all the publicity they can get.
I cant remember if there was a similar publicity drive in the lead up to the Swans being transplanted? I recall the pink lambos, cheerleaders and Warrick Capper antics – but I thought that all happened after they arrived rather than before they kicked off. Is there any AFL fan/historian out there could enlighten me?
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
I think the lead preparation into Sydney for the Swans was after training one Thursday night…… “right boys hop on the bus, we’ll be playing our next home game at the SCG this Sunday”.
There was some period between the announcement of South Melbourne moving to Sydney but most of the focus was around a local group “keep South at South” rather than “What do we do when we get to Sydney?”
Both the Gold Coast and Western Sydney have 3 year lead times – cant criticise the AFL for not giving due notice. Many other new expansion teams have 1 year or 2 years at best. eg: A League teams (GC & Nth QLD in particular) , new Melb Super rugby team,etc.
If it wasnt for the paranoid NSW press and petrified former rugby league players and the odd current NRL coach or administrator there would be less publicity.
Most of the publiclity comes from the Daily Telegraph warning of invasion by the AFL over the last 12 months. So when the announcements come, it’s all “another blow to the NRL blah blah”.
Redb
Pippinu said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
The Man
The pink lambos and Capper happened a good 4 years after the Swans arrived.
Let’s not forget that 1982 was the Swans’ first year playing home games in Sydney. They had played a couple of games in 1981, and made the permanent move to Sydney as its homebase in 1983.
Also – at the end of the day, it was hardly a thought out move – it sort of just happened. Then Pres Aylett had an inkling that a team in Sydney would be a good thing, the Swans players (with a couple of exceptions) were receptive to the idea – but it was hardly a well conceived well thought out move.
It ended up being a stroke of genius – but back in 1981 – they had no idea what they were doing and the VFL itself was almost broke.
Michael C said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Any talk about an ‘Inglis’ move would probably be by his manager trying to up the price. He’d be too old by then anyway!!!
captain nemo said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
Being hypothetical here, what happens if say for example someone of the calibre of Greg Inglis takes a gig with western sydney AFL and he does it as a piss take. He holds out for the real big dollars getting the biggest contract in Australia’s domestic football history (1 million plus PA), and hypothetically he does it to take the piss. What happens if he is that bad that he is barely able to make a VFL side? Does he get the million a year to warm the bench of a VFL side or do they pay him his millions and send him back to league/rugby to double dip earnings!!!! I have a mate who believes that the AFL will be so keen to sign another big time league or rugby player for WS(preferably league) that if they wanted to take the piss they would be laughing all the way to the bank.
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Your mate is dreaming.
Hunt’s situation is unique in many ways, there maybe one other RL player??, who knows who will join GWS.
Besides they have to have tea with Demetriou first, surely not worth it if just a pisstake
Redb
Pippinu said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
capt
I think a stack of stuff has to fall into place before another Hunt scenario emerges – not to mention that AFL clubs have become quite adept at measuring a range of physical and mental qualities (this American Basketballer Collingwood got scored “elite” in both physical and mental testing).
Also – there are a stack of League players who have an aussie rules background (having played both up to the age of 16) – so the AFL doesn’t necessarily have to an extreme to sign up an NRL player (if that’s what they want to do – personally, I doubt they will do it just for the hell of it).
captain nemo said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Pip, I know absolutely nothing about this American basketballer, what sort of money are they paying him. Surely it wouldn’t be able to compete with what he was earning in the NBA??
Pippinu said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
capt
This is one of the more “unique” recruiting stories of the year, not too far removed from the Mike Pyke story (the Canadian rugby player).
This bloke is about 22 years of age, had played college basketball, soccer and was also a high jumper, didn’t play NBA, but played two years professionally in Germany (basketball).
He sent a DVD of himself around to the clubs, and Collingwood happened to have someone in the States already, and asked him to pay him a visit, and then they brought him back for a 2 week trial, extended to three then signed him up as an international rookie (which effectively by-passes the draft).
Now judging by the DVD, this bloke can’t kick to save himself – but – like Pyke, he’s about 6ft 7 in and extremely athletic – so clubs are always going to be attracted to a bloke like that (because they can teach him to ruck in the AFL sense).
As for the salary – I can’t imagine it being too much more than $60,000 per annum for two years. What’s his motivation? Got no idea.
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
yeah their getting a bit over-excited about this code conversion stuff. I guess its been happening for years in union and league and vice-versa, but the reality is that the sports are very different.
There was an article in the Australian a couple of weeks that was linked to one thread on the Roar which talked about different type of athletes,etc . A RL doctor was asked who could convert, the only two he could name was Hunt and Lockyer. Some have said Folau, but I notice a small story about Folau and Judd in the HS doing a Powerade commercial where Folau conceded Judd ran him off his feet.
If there is to be another conversion they will need to be a big name to top the publicity of Hunt – that was huge.
Redb
MyGeneration said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
In the article you mention, Nathan Gibbs (ex-Rabbitohs captain, now long-time Swans team doctor) also named Inglis a likely candidate. The Broncos’ doc named RL halves and outside backs in general as having the right sort of physique.
Gibbs also said players like Tony Lockett would struggle with the increased running in AFL now. Does this mean that only a few years ago there would have been less impediments to conversion? And if a few rules were re-tweaked so that AFL went back to less of a running game, would those impediments disappear again? Just a thought.
BTW, did Folau say Judd ran him off his feet over 40m, 400m or 1500m?
Michael C said | November 23rd 2009 @ 4:03pm | Report comment
if it was the Powerade ad, wasn’t that Adam Goodes?
MyGeneration said | November 23rd 2009 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
I thought they did versions of it for different channels/markets, inserting the appropriate player via CGI, which makes me a little sceptical of the HS story in the first place, although I heard something about a new one being done at the SCG last week, so maybe that’s what redb refers to.
Redb said | November 25th 2009 @ 8:05am | Report comment
MC, No it was a new Powerade Ad.
MyGen, Over 50 metres.
Redb
BigAl said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
Hit pause on hypothetical and get real ! People who run the AFL are not fools.
captain nemo said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
Big Al, I just read one of the funniest articles in a long time quoting the AFL development officer regarding China. It actually was quite embarressing. Not saying their fools BigAl, they just can’t see that other people can think differently. Although to pay a Hunt a million a year on the basis of kicking a ball in a park last year and a handfull of games when he was 14, well of course thats foolish mate when some kids who have proven themselves up through the junior ranks in AFL don’t get 20% of that sort of money.
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
Suggest you read the article properly.
jimbo said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
The AFL aren’t stupid – they are promoting the China AFL exhibition game in as Arial Ping Pong and have signed up China’s top Ping Pong player – Wai Yu Jo Kin – to line up for the Demons.
They are also using a smooth round white ball and setting up a net across the centre square which players have to kick the ball over . . .
Goal umpires will have white ping pong bats instead of white flags to wave . . .
BigAl said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
Now thats what I call thinking outside the centre square !
It’s amazing how often that comes up in AFL thinking.
Redb said | November 25th 2009 @ 8:07am | Report comment
pay that.
The chinese only heard ‘ping pong’ and said “were in”
jimbo said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Didn’t Dr Geoffrey Edelsten have someting to do with the Swan’s early years and promoting Warwick Capper, the AFL and the Swans in Sydney in the early days – does anyone remember what the connection was?
All codes are interested in promoting their sport in the best way possible and Hunt does have a connection with AFL, even though not at an elite level.
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
From memory Edelstein bought the Swans when the club was in dire financial straits. Along with the Bris Bears (based on the Gold Coast !!) the only two AFL clubs that have been privately owned for a period – neither worked out.
Redb
BigAl said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
And the AFL bought them back for $1 !
– shades of the Packer/Bond/Ch9 circus of a decade or 3? so ago!
Redb said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
and of course Christopher ‘Darth’ Skase.
BigAl said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
At the time, he did appear to be ‘the perfect fit’ for the Gold Coast – is that deja vue I feel coming on ?
John Ryan said | November 23rd 2009 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
Tell you what take the Funding off the Olympic sports,remember Montreal no gold medals at all, and its in the UK as well, and politicians love to bask in the glory.
Instead hand the money as the Crawford report recommends, a heavily AFL dominated panel,go away leave the Olympics to get on with it,I always thought it was the state govts that funded school sports
Pippinu said | November 23rd 2009 @ 5:54pm | Report comment
That’s the problem right there – all state governments are broke.