Haskell is the sort of chest out, confident, Dallaglio type of player but I don’t see him as a regular. I see the qualities of Croft and Haskell being utilised depending on the opposition. I’m not overly fond of Dylan Hartley and Phil Vickery is coming to the end of his career. Beyond him a lot of the forwards are perhaps too quiet to lead a team. Of the backs I would seriously consider Paul Hodgson. In summation: Paul Hodgson or Jonny Wilkinson.. with Moody, Haskell, Thompson as vice captain.

I agree with you, btw. But I’m beginning to suspect that Jonno might be from the Alan Shearer school of management.’

I haven’t seen that quote yet, VC. I’ll investigate further.

I don’t think the significance of passion can be underestimated, but if the game was just about passion then Argentina and Italy would be world champions and South Africa’s kamikaze approach from 2000-2003 would have reaped more rewards. Rugby players, by their very nature, must be passionate people to reach the pinnacle of test rugby, thus games where one side wins through sheer determintation (i.e. Marseilles 2007) are very few and far between. A lack of passion certainly didn’t force Quade Cooper to throw a forward pass. Frankly, Australia has been lacking leadership and tactical definition since Deans took over. The play of the backline has also worsened. That’s why Scotland beat them, not because the Australian players couldn’t give a fig about their country.

I’m harbouring secret concerns about Johnson. I have a distant hope that Borthwick (who I thought played very well against NZ) will no longer be captain and that a new forwards coach will be brought in. Players respond to change.

I agree with you, btw. But I’m beginning to suspect that Jonno might be from the Alan Shearer school of management.

Oh, and BTW:

“…they always represent Australia with pride. They would never be beaten by another team through lack of toughness, passion or pride.”

Have you forgotten how your brave, tough, manly, magnificent Kangaroos were too scared to tour Lancashire in late 2001 because they feared becoming Al Qaeda targets?

That’s MY argument! merde…

The Scotland side on that day played committed, passionate, defensive rugby and sometimes that is all you need to win. Lets take your woeful team in 07, they decided that they would attack every breakdown in numbers and blew us away due to our lack of commitment to the breakdown and poor execution.

Now you could argue that with superior skills and technical expertise we should have won. Well if it aint passion what got Dad’s Army over the line that day?

That’s the thing though, a lot of sides lack good skills. That Scotland side was woefully inept. Australia got into good positions time and time again, what was required was good leadership and accurate execution. There will always be examples of games where passion wins out (and often in a knock-out competition), but had Australia and NZ played that test ten times I think NZ would have won 8 or 9. Australia would have beaten the 07 QF England team 9 times out often. In a non-knock-out situation you need more than that.

Fair to say I never understood the anti-Gregan thing either…

Well to me it just proves that the problem is not with passion, but with mentality, skills, technique, preparation, rugby intelligence, option taking, calm headedness, strategy, vision, passing, kicking, lucidity, confidence, trust in team-mates, playing as a team, coaching … shall I go on?

Passion is great and definitely necessary, but 9 times out of 10, its all the rest that will win you the match. We’d all like to take it out on the field, and let out all that pent-up frustration and hurt at the failed 3N, the draw against Ireland, the critics, but rugby is not a brawl or even a boxing ring. And even in a boxing ring, and I speak from limited experience, nothing replaces training, preparation, skill and lucidity. I’ve seen a number of passion filled clumps cop the biggest hidings.

In the current context, I think this “passion ” debate is misleading and will lead nowhere. I guess it just makes us feel better because we are all feeling passionate ourselves right now. I think the real questions lie elsewhere: domestic competition or lack of third tier structure, lack of player depth, funding, decent coaching, skill development, current team selection, players’ form, Dean’s coaching, the lack of a world class 10, a second row, experienced talented centres etc

When these things are addressed, hopefully sooner rather than later, the Wallabies might start stringing together some wins again.

“Champions are made from something they have deep inside them – a desire, a dream and a vision. They have to have last minute stamina, they have to be a little faster and they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill.”

She says “What are you guys on the roar going on about, your acting like a bunch of emotional women”. “We have lost 2 games by one point and you lot are acting like the sky has fallen in.”

“If we have a poor record at the moment it is mostly due to not having a reliable kicker.” “Get over it we are still building”

So there you have been told.

We don’t lack passion, we lack a true general on the park who is running the Wallaby game and directing the players. Stillmissit made reference to El Alamein ….. there we had a couple of truely great generals …. Moreshead who ran the strategic battle of the 9th Div and made the crucial relief in place at The Cauldron, and the two battalion commanders who actually fought the battle at The Cauldron ….. that is what the Wallabies lack …. a direction for their commitment and perseverance. Call it passion if you wish.

That’s not totally fair, stillmissit. I could turn around and say that yours is the typical response from the older amateur generation. Personally I was a very committed player, committed to the point of spite, but the professional game can’t be built simply around passion. We shall just have to agree to disagree but IMO passion will only get you so far. Technical excellence is the key to success, and that is why a boxer like Joe Calzaghe and Floyd Mayweather Jr were/are so successful. If passion was the key then every joker off the street could become a great boxer or rugby union/league player. Australia lost the match because nobody on the pitch had the brains to change the match tactics, because Deans has not developed discernible styles and because the players aren’t skilled enough.

As a supporter I would pay to be there to see Richie Rich on the bench or in the stands…how sweet that would be! I was astounded to hear he was nominated for IRB player of the year – and so was my 12 year old son! Really – what has he done to be where he is? He is so far from Carter the two should not be mentioned in the same conversation. And what leader spits the dummy in open forum the way he does – he should find some ‘grow up’ pills and share them with a few others….including Mortlock.

And if Mortlock was dumb enough to travel to Japan while he was the incumbent captain – he deserved to lose his leadership role. That has to go down as one of the dumbest acts of leadership that I can recall in sport!