You can’t really call Tuqiri a league player: he’s been playing union for 6 years and has 67 caps by now! I think his form was a temporary loss and would have returned.

Tahu I think should have been in the Waratahs and when they finally did give him a run was superb. I also think he would have done better than Ryan Cross in the last few matches.

I’m not pro-league or a fan of it by the way: it’s just a handy source of players.

The Wallabies do have a league player at the moment: Ryan Cross. Surely Timana Tahu would have done better than him?

So the capitulation in Wellington showed “huge passion and determination” did it?

Yes they’re now missing Sharpy, Mortlock, Barnes – some very experienced players, but I will not accept that the league players you are flogging on about were the solution to the present problems!

Tahu wasn’t getting played because his Tah’s coach didn’t think he was as good as the guys getting the 12 and 13 jerseys – simple as that. His chances to shine when he got a spot he blew generally. He never adjusted to the game and his mental ticker dropped because of it.

Tuqiri’s form had slumped so low he wasn’t worth the money they were being forced to pay him – so good on JON for getting rid of him – think of all the extra cash the ARU now have to secure the new emerging talent, not some 30-something old war horse with an attitude problem.

Bringing in league players is not the solution! Even as a stop-gap measure! It’s cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I actually think that the Wallabies ‘passion’ has undergone two phases this year: the first, when it was muted due to serious internal disruption resulting from that sacking, the second, when it was high but damaged by a loss of confidence after all those losses on the field. I think overall they’ve played with tremendous passion and resilience, and it’s unfotunate to watch them trying as hard as they can but jittery and uncertain because of destroyed self-belief (and limited by their talent).

It all comes down to how much money the ARU has to spend on players for the Wallabies. If there really is so little, then the firing of Tuqiri, the loss of Tahu, the non-recruitment of Hunt and the non-maintenance of Mcmeniman make some financial sense. However, is it possibly the case that O’Neill was simply unaware how much money the financial turnaround he achieved created? It seems that he was still assuming the ARU were in the desperate financial position he inherited upon arrival, when in fact they had enough money to keep and splash out on a few players. Maybe the global economic crisis frightened him further. However it was a big miscalculation in that he weakened the Wallabies so much that their season was a disaster, and even financially it was mistaken as the succession of losses will have devastated crowd numbers and ARU income.

If the ARU has enough money now that it has cut every single other expense, surely this is the one time when buying some old and new players would really help. O’Neill said in an interview recently that someone told him the Wallabies were just two or three players short of a great team (it must have occurred to him that he was responsible for the loss of those two or three players). Now though he should use the money available to him and his silver-smooth tongue to get those extra players.

In my mind there really is very little to it: 5 players less, 5 players more. The solution is as simple as the problem.

As I mention in a response above Tuqiri’s loss of form was either a permanent probably physical decline, or a temporary psychological issue (like Rokocoko): in the first case his absence would be good, in the second bad. I think that it was probably a temporary problem, as it was too sudden a loss of form to result from ageing. Robbie Deans could well have brought back that confidence in the same way he has with Palu.

It is indeed harder to pin the blame for Tahu. I think that even though he was inclined to leave because of family matters, he had also been inclined to stay before, and that therefore he could probably have been persuaded to stay if the will had been there be it on Deans part or O’Neill’s (think what he could have done in Cross’ place in the last few matches!).

I think Deans’ realisation of the resources at his disposal has evolved: this week he has for the first time as far as I remember said that the playing depth is limited and that the best players are all out here. Again, he only went to the media over the third tier recently too. It probably seemed to him last year that even with what was available he could work his miracles, and it took the painful unmasking of that illusion, when a couple of crucial figures were removed for the hidden reality to manifest its ugly self.

How much power does Deans have over player comings and goings? Probably not much as you say. Maybe something though.

It’s not all negative however. Buy those 5 players and with a great coach like Deans things could very soon be rosy once more.

At least you gave me the impetus to finally load that damn Macquarie!!

I think I saw on another post that the ARU spends upwards of $27 million on player payments. why not drop that to $15 million and use the change for junior development and the (re)creation of a nation competition.

Those players who want to play for the Wallabies have to be available to return home for the winter tests (NH off season) and also for the November test window. There are only so many places available for foreign players in the European comps so we would lose some but the S15 & ARC would still be of a good standard and marketable.

So I’ve loaded my Macquarie, and I’m happy to confirm that “gravamen” is indeed a word!! (never doubted you Greg!)

So here is a cut and paste:

gravamen
/gruh’vaymuhn/ noun, plural gravamina /gruh’vamuhnuh/.
1. that part of an accusation which weighs most heavily against the accused; the burden or substantial part of a charge or complaint.
2. a grievance.
[LL, from L gravare load, weigh down. Cf. grieve]

Any wiser after that? Nor am I!!!

But here is a hint – if you ever have cause to use this word again – the plural is “gravamina”.

On a lighter note (and let’s be honest, a bit of levity is required at the minute), I thought I had seen it all, until I came across Greg’s “gravamen”.

Not that I would doubt the word of a gentleman, but I had to look it up, being the first I’ve ever seen it, and I”m sorry to say that I couldn’t find it in my Chambers.

This calls for desperate measures. As it happens, I’ve got a DVD of the Macquarie sitting here on my desk, which I have been too lazy to load for nigh on a year.

This appears a good a time as any to do precisely that – back in a jif.

They no longer have the best set of forwards in the world and were comprehensively out-muscled by South Africa this year, which wouldn’t have happened not so long ago.

Is it really so painful for Wallaby supporters to have to admit that the team simply doesn’t have the cattle? Personally I find this a far more comforting explanation than that of “the team didn’t try hard enough”, “the team has no pride in the jersey”, “Matt Giteau is a pretty boy who doesn’t care”, and so on. These are all rather embarrassing explanations, because they are things that should not be the case.

I don’t think there’s a Roarer who doesn’t agree that the return of Vickerman would be a huge plus. However Tuqiri remains as divisive a figure as ever. It’s interesting that John Eales wrote in the Fin Review that the Wallabies are missing Tuqiri far more than most people realize. While I have the utmost respect for the passion of people like stillmissit (“Give me a Hynes over a Tuquiri any day”), I’m afraid I must have more respect for the view of Eales on this one.

Tahu is an interesting case. Deans is on record that he tried to recruit Tahu to the Crusaders (a factor in this would be that he is eligible for the All Blacks). So I tend to think that Deans probably wanted Tahu to be a success in rugby, and that he’s sad that he has returned to league. I’d suggest that move was driven largely by the player himself: he wanted to play regularly (cf. the fractured season of Australian rugby), and he wanted to be at home with his family much more.

I also suspect that kpm is wrong that “Deans seems not to have realised yet that Australia does not contain the same abundant riches.” In fact all the evidence is that he does – why else would he take the highly unusual step of going to the media to tell John O’Neill that Australia needs a national competition? (see Wayne Smith on this a few weeks ago).

So I don’t think that Deans has the power over player comings and goings that is implied above. I also suspect that O’Neill himself would like to be able to retain a lot more players, but he has to deal with the bottom line. That bottom line is that if Hugh McMeniman can earn triple his salary in Japan, and Dan Vickerman really wants a studying and playing sabbatical in Europe, then the ARU simply does not have the money to counter this.

Interviewer (Ian Jones): “Did you ever imagine you would be in this position?”

OF: “Well I started the season as the fourth-ranked prop at the Crusaders, and now I’m the starting tight-head for the All Blacks against England.”

And he played very well too!

There’s no guarantee all four of those players would have performed well certainly, but surely some, at least half of them would. Vickerman was a reliable performer: and if Deans can turn Palu into a reliable one, he could well have done the same with some of the other three.

You right though they should have won.

O’Neill seems to be a tremendously powerful man in Australian rugby: I’m sure if he ordered Deans to put him in the team he would have to do it!

… and I hope he has a plan to improve the depth of Australian Rugby outside of an extra Super Rugby franchise

If only Moore had better body height as he lunged for the line, Rocky ground the ball, Cooper threw the ball to Cross instead of Mitchell, or Gits kicked any of those missed goals… we would have won.. and won easily.

There is no gaurantees that any of those “ARU booted” players would have performed well this season. Who would have thought 12 months ago that Gits would be having a form slump topped off by having the game from hell.

I understand your frustration but unless JON pulls on his boots and stuffs a try or misses a goal I can’t blame him for the loss… but it would be pretty cool if he did ask Robbie to give him a run!

Thomson, Read, Donnelly, O.Franks… What other test nation has introduced such good players this season?

‘But they are just 4 players short of 15, which means they lose.’

This presupposes that every other team is 12/13/14/15/15 which clearly can’t be true across a broad scale.

‘The All Blacks claim they are looking to bring some of their old players back over before the World Cup: is O’Neill doing the same?’

Like whom? Peter Hewat, Rodney Blake, Julian Salvi?

To reply to your points.

It’s true that depth seems to be spread in odd ways in different countries. For example in Australia there is endless talent in the inside backs (Giteau, Barnes, O’Connor, Cooper, Beale) and almost none, Digby Ioane aside, in the outside backs.

I agree that there isn’t perhaps as much in New Zealand as is sometimes made out. They seem especially dry in the forwards for example, and at fly-half. On the other hand they will argue they have lost Nick Evans, Carl Hayman, Greg Somerville, Chris Jack and Jerry Collins.

Perhaps it’s a case that the recent shift in the Tri-nations hierarchy has to do with which country has lost the most players overseas: New Zealand have lost the most, then Australia and then South Africa.

However, even if New Zealand perhaps don’t produce the endless riches I said above, they probably have just enough to get away with, and just a little more than the Wallabies, who don’t quite have enough to get away with.

15 is a small number in the end and so long as they have 15 great players it’s fine, but just 2 or 3 under and things change.

So I agree with you that the Wallabies are nowhere near as bad as everyone says, and I personally don’t think they lack passion at all. But they are just 4 players short of 15, which means they lose.

Vickerman may well be enjoying himself abroad now, and so the question is whether John O’Neill has the persuasive powers to bring him back.

Indeed I said little of the future in the article. What can John O’Neill do to improve playing stocks? Any new players now would have a full two years before the World Cup, which would be plenty.

The All Blacks claim they are looking to bring some of their old players back over before the World Cup: is O’Neill doing the same?

I’ve thought a lot about Tuqiri’s loss of form. There are two possibilities: a temporary confidence-related problem, or a permanent decline due to age.

If the latter, then the Wallabies are far better without him. However, I think the loss of form when it arrived was simply too sudden to be due to age, and was probably, like the decline of Rokocoko (who’s 25), more psychological then anything else. Perhaps Robbie Deans could have restored his confidence and effectiveness: we’ll never know.

Tuqiri and Mortlock did give Australia physical penetration it’s true, but Tuqiri’s gone and Mortlock’s body seems fallible. It could be that new options must be explored in this area.

I think that it’s really only on the wings and in the second row that the Wallabies are short of good players, so I agree that they’re not a bad team at all.

I hope O’Neill is currently scouring the earth to plug those crucial gaps.

England had 9 first teamers absent and various other subs. 25 players in total. That is a decimation.

It is easy to state that NZ has an amzing depth in their ranks but to be honest I do not think it is that simple. For example, just take a look at how the AB’s perform when either Carter or McCaw are out of the team.

Vickerman was not pushed out of the wallaby team. He wanted to go to uni to study. My friend had lunch with him a few months before he announced this and he made it clear at the time that it was to ‘try something different’. There is still the chance that he will return.

Tuqiri was a good rugby player but he wasn’t playing well in the lead up to his sacking. Some say it is because he was playing for the tahs and their game style didn’t give him a chance to develop. I think it is more becasue he was past his prime…which is the reason Deans didn’t pick him for the warm up matches and the real reason Deans was happy for him to go.

As for lack of player depth. I think the depth of the wallabies is not as bad as many people have you believe in comparison with many other rugby nations. Many countries only have one or two (if their lucky) players covering all positions and this is currently the case with the wallabies.

Take the English and the springboks for example. When they have their full squad they are good teams. The english came second in the 6 nations last year and the springboks won everything in front of them. But this november with a number of injuries or non-starters to their key players they are very very average.

I think at present the wallabies are a strong team. They now have a strong forward pack who are scrummaging well. They do need a lot of work on their lineouts and they obviously need to do some work on those backs. I think a major problem in Scotland (apart from that the centres were second/third choice players) was that the backs were all too small and none of these players had the required bulk to run directly and use their weight to try and break the Scottish lines. Mortlock and Barnes should be able to rectify this problem.

The addition of melbourne is a huge mistake. it will not produce more players but will dilute the quality amongst the 5 teams, no one will make the finals, so there will be even less interest in the super 15 to go along with no FTA.

If there had been any fault in passion it could be because a player who had been there for several years was fired four games into the season.

No cheers on your article KPM.

I’m not suprised!

kingplayermaker is streching credulity here with this article!

Tuqiri was washed up.
Mat Rodgers heart was never as big as his ego
Tahu came for the money when the body was waning

Look more to the Wallabies lack of passion, their surplus of greed and their holier-than-thou attitudes to explain the sad form of the wallabies at the moment.

Deans should be getting around in the old t-shirt saying:

“it’s hard to soar with the eagles when I’m surrounded by turkeys!”

What – you think Tuqiri was worth Deans withholding information from the ARU board?? PLEASE!!

Tuqiri was one of the bad apples that has helped put aussie rugby in the pathetic postion it is now in.
His money-orientated bargining, team-mate pushing, I’m-too-good-to-work-on-my-speed attitude was never any good for the wallabies.

All he did was put bums on seats. His attitude was always “me before the team”, “it’s not me fucking up-it’s my team-mates”, I deserved to be treated like a king!

Looking at your moniker sounds like you may have some of Tuqiri’s delusions yourself!!