Deans must drop Giteau for Wales game
Roar Guru
By LeftArmSpinner, 25 Nov 2009 LeftArmSpinner is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- Grand Slam tour, Matt Giteau, robbie deans, Rugby Union, Wales rugby, wallabies
115 Have your say
Robbie Deans must put aside the protected species that we know as Matt Giteau and drop him for the upcoming Wales game. The basis for this decision is poor form, poor decision-making, and a sloppy goalkicking technique.
Giteau’s performance, in the light of his overt, public desire for the greatest responsibilities was poor. Coupled with the team’s success in giving him more than enough “raw ingredients” with which to bake a victory, he failed to deliver, and that is the principle reason for the defeat.
As the playmaker (60 percent of possession and territory), goalkicker (four goals well within range), one of three or four senior players, the most experienced back on the field, and Vice Captain, he was always going to be either hero or villain.
Matthew Giteau is sportsman, and as such, is only as good as his last game, not a protected species.
The vast majority of sportsmen suffer the humiliation of being dropped. The best bounce back and are better players because of it.
Robbie Deans has progressively sacrificed every sacred cow except Matt Giteau.
The backline for Wales should be:
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Hynes
12 O’Connor
13 Ioane
14 Mitchell
15 AAC
with Burgess, Giteau and Beale on the bench.
OR
If the coaches believe that new combinations will gel sufficiently in a week:
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Turner
12 O’Connor
13 AAC
14 Ioane
15 Hynes
with Burgess, Giteau and Beale on the bench
This second and much bolder backline transitions from the current one to the best one. The next back line after Wales should be:
9 Genia
10 Barnes
12 O’Connor
13 AAC
11 Ioane
14 Hynes
15 Cooper
Bench would be Burgess, Giteau and Turner.
The logic for this:
Genia attacking, kicking and defending option: never gives up
Barnes playmaker, kicker defender: never gives up
O’Connor attacker close to the ball, great foot work, good defender, will play S14 in 2010 at 12 so why change him: never gives up
AAC most experienced of a young back line so needed nearer to the action, excellent in attack, defence and kicking: never gives up
Ioane quick elusive and strong winger who can slot into back line at 13 when moves are on or during multi phase play: never gives up
Hynes, Quick and strong and another fullback never gives up.
Cooper Good kicker, elusive broken field runner, great pass when he comes into the line: and (YOU GUESSED IT) never gives up.
The “never gives up” is demonstrated in different ways on the field in the ferocity of their play (such as Hynes’ tackling, AAC’s driving runs to the try line with three defenders on him) or O’Connor keeping trying things when he was having a shocker against the All Blacks this year or Quade Cooper reining in his wild child behaviour and growing throughout this tour.
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kingplaymaker said | November 25th 2009 @ 3:57am | Report comment
Why not throw Beale in the side? At least he won’t come with the mental baggage of being part of any of the disheartening defeats this year.
It might be nice for the rest of the players to look at a player amongst them without the expression of a broken and destitute man.
Knives Out said | November 25th 2009 @ 6:19am | Report comment
Erm… NSW Waratahs anyone?
LeftArmSpinner said | November 25th 2009 @ 11:03am | Report comment
knives, The kingplaymaker is suffering from Alzheimers if he cant remember the tahs humilation this season………. lets not advise him as it will only confuse him
LeftArmSpinner said | November 25th 2009 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Kingie, I considered it but it would be unfair to him, unfair to Cooper who has been getting it done since entering the Wallabies camp and we need to keep an eye on the future. But, get him on the bench, Beale that is and give him some game time. Apparently, Deans sees Beale as a 15.
Who Needs Melon said | November 25th 2009 @ 5:20am | Report comment
LAS,
I agree Giteau should be dropped. But not sure Cooper should be retained at 10 either. We’ve taken five different 10s on the tour. Time to try either Toomua or Beale. I’m hoping they both get a run at 10 during this Cardiff game.
I like the look of your final listing as a long term option though… with a few tweaks. I think the Wallaby backline NEXT year – yes, I’m already fantasising about next year and blocking this one out – is:
9 Genia
10 Barnes
12 O’Connor
13 Ioane
11 Ioane/someone
14 Hynes/someone
15 AAC
My logic is as follows:
WG has proven he is the best halfback in Oz by a mile and during next years S14 he will continue to improve and put daylight between himself and competitors.
BB will prove during next years S14 that he is the best 10 in Oz.
JOC will prove he is the best 12 in Oz during next years S14 and be better for the experiences he’s had. Giteau would probably win the 12 spot IF he played 12 during S14.
DI will prove he is the best 14 in Oz during next years S14 and will also be better for the experience he’s had. Mortlock will give him a run for his money. And AAC could IF he plays 13 in next years S14.
Wing spots are up for grabs. If for some reason Ioane misses the 13 spot he should definitely get a go on the wing. This goes against my don’t-pick-out-of-position philosophy but Ioane has obviously played wing before and I think he warrants an exception being made. I agree Hynes is also a front runner.
AAC may hopefully have some competition for the title of ‘best aussie 15′ in next years S14 – e.g. Cam Sheppard? – but I think will retain his place. If he doesn’t then possibly again an exception should be made and stick him on the wing.
Only problem is: Who is our goal kicker?
Blue Sue said | November 25th 2009 @ 6:40am | Report comment
Toomua went off after 2 minutes …. may have a broken jaw.
James O’Connor has kicked 2 cons and 1 penalty so far.
We are being killed by the ref …. Brown in the bin for 10 @ the moment
You can listen live …. go to http://www.rugby.com.au and click on live feed from BBC Wales
LeftArmSpinner said | November 25th 2009 @ 6:10am | Report comment
WNM, (and the answer is everyone needs melon), but I digress. When selecting my team, the reality is that your youngsters are just not ready to have that pressure put on them. it is unfair and dumb for the future.
With BB out, this leaves the cupboard bare and QC has been doing much of it at 10, and certainly the better bits, any way.
our fantasy teams are similar. Cooper would have to prove that he can play 15 to a high level, at least as high as AAC, releasing AAC to 13 and Ioane to wing.
But, after the 9 and 10, it is more a matter of selecting the best players and fitting them into the backline, if not just because, to achieve their potential, they will need to play ball in hand and relatively unstructured rugby where not all the players are available for every backline move and so you have interchanging.
Yea, the kicker, well Cooper kicks as does Barnes and uuummmm??? Wasnt barnes the kicker in the last world cup.
We think alike, but frankly, its not that difficult.
So WNM, which team for saturday evening??? my first or second or another?????
Who Needs Melon said | November 25th 2009 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
First one.
pothale said | November 25th 2009 @ 6:30am | Report comment
Well Australia are showing more invention and running in this Cardiff match than I’ve seen in a while.
James O’Connor is enjoying himself, making one try with a lovely burst and pass at the tryline to Cross, and setting another one in motion for Beale.
Australia are full value for their 17-3 lead.
There was another what I call a Delayed Arms Tackle though – this time on Gareth Thomas who had to go off. These kind of tackles are becoming a menace.
Thurston said | November 25th 2009 @ 6:33am | Report comment
LAS – it’s a case of if you shut the door they’ll fly out the window.
Hynes and AAC have proved their worth in their present positions. So for the Wales game the question, in our fantasy world ’cause Dingo ain’t gonna drop Gits, is where to play O’Connor. Got to be in the centres. Yet he could be the winger we’re looking for to go with Hynes for the RWC. If so, we need a 12 for the RWC. Will this be a Cooper/Barnes mix’em, match’em? If either Cooper or Barnes has a good 2110 at 5/8 then Dingo and the other selectors will go for Gits at 12 because they’ve got to have a kicker, even one who’ll have to work to come back to form.
Big question: is Giteau going to turn out to be another Tuqiri? If they insist on him playing pivot it’s possible.
LeftArmSpinner said | November 25th 2009 @ 11:21am | Report comment
thurston, that’s a new but very graphic case of doors and windows. I Like!!!
But, Deans needs to explore every option. the on field expression and playing style is the issue holding this team back and I not sure that Barnes is the answer. he does kick alot.
He kicked for field position repeatedly in the recent Pre selection Wallabies trial. go figure why you would do this, particularly when the coaches were instructing the refs to move plays around the field so field position is irrelevant.
Bill said | November 25th 2009 @ 7:16am | Report comment
Despite his indifferent form this year – Giteau would still be my first choice pick for the Wallaby inside centre position. He is very experienced in this position, it doesn’t require the greater decision making of a fly half and he would have a bit more space to take on the line and hopefully bend it.
LeftArmSpinner said | November 25th 2009 @ 11:22am | Report comment
Bill, Giteau cant or wont stay out the 10 position.
Blue Sue said | November 25th 2009 @ 7:18am | Report comment
Final score 31-3
Beale 2, Morahan, Cross tries JOC all the cons and a penalty.
The Welsh commentators are impressed.
Some Roarers will be pleased to hear that they think the most impressive part of their game was their “backing up in support on the shoulder of their man”.
They seem to think Robbie will have some selection headaches.
Ads said | November 25th 2009 @ 7:29am | Report comment
Just watched the Cardiff Blues game and i reckon Kurtley Beal deserves a run. He was tearing them up!. O’Connor also had a good game as did Cooper. Coopers kicks were perfect for once. Not one aimless hoof!.
Defensively we smashed them. The ref kept them in the game with two iffy yellow cards.
I think that Ryan Cross should be out of the 22 as he can’t defend, and doesn’t run hard or clean out when back get isolated. Giteau needs to earn his stripes, and will never improve as long as he know he is an automatic selection.
My back line (after seeing the B sides performance would be)
9. Genia
10. Beale (Cooper or Barnes)
12. Cooper (Barnes)
13. Ashley-Cooper (O’Connor)
11. Turner (Beale)
14. Ioane
15. O’Connor (Ashley-Cooper)
Reserves – Giteau, Burgess, Hynes
After the performance the last 3 games no one in the backline is safe with the exception of AAC. He has done everything asked of him and should get more involved as always makes yards.
Hopefully Cliffy is OK. Rocky and Pocock need to lift the side and especially get those 2nd rowers fired up.
After last weeks shock loss i swore that i would not be getting up 6.30am….but i am a sucker and after watching the Cardiff Blues game i will give them one last chance to impress. Otherwise drop them all including the coach and start again from scratch.
Go Wallabies!
Shahsan said | November 25th 2009 @ 7:47am | Report comment
Are yopu in Australia? How did you watch it? Who showed it?
Ads said | November 25th 2009 @ 8:02am | Report comment
Yes in Aus. Watched it on
http://www.justin.tv/twomint
not sure whether it’s only live sports but the coverage and commentary weren’t too bad.
Would be nice if Foxsport covered it…instead all the over rubbish they show
Shahsan said | November 25th 2009 @ 8:27am | Report comment
Thanks for that.
Joh4Canberra said | November 25th 2009 @ 10:09am | Report comment
With commentary in Welsh I presume? The only channel showing the match in the UK (I’m currently in England) was the Welsh language channel S4C (freely available in Wales, but only via satellite in England and Scotland — not sure about Northern Ireland). I actually don’t mind watching rugby with non-English commentary. In fact sometimes I prefer it. First of all, most commentators talk a load of crap anyway so you’re not missing out on much if you can’t understand what the commentator is saying in a foreign language. And secondly, if you can understand the foreign language commentary it’s a bit of fun and makes a pleasant enough change from the usual mugs you hear ranting on in English. Although I don’t speak Welsh (I have sung in Welsh so I can sort of pronounce it, but I don’t understand it!) I do speak a few other languages and have enjoyed watching rugby and understanding the commentary in German, French and Italian. German is particularly interesting because rugby is not big there and they have to do a lot more explanation of the rules and general tactics for an uninformed audience. Pretty much the only rugby that gets on German TV is the world cup once every four years (although when I was living in Germany in 2005 they also showed the Tri-Nations with German commentary; but alas no more tri-nations on German TV — greedy Rupert must be asking too much for the rights now).
Anyway if you wanted English commentary for that match it would have been possible to watch the TV stream with commentary in Welsh, turn down the sound on that and then simultaneously stream the BBC radio commentary in English (assuming you’ve got a good enough internet connection to do both at once).
Joh4Canberra said | November 25th 2009 @ 10:36am | Report comment
The internet is full of opportunities to watch live sport as well as TV in general from other parts of the world. Mostly it’s not entirely legal (a breach of copyright law) but that doesn’t stop people from either streaming or watching this material. There are quite a few sites you can go to to find links to live rugby matches being streamed (eg go to myp2p[dot]eu, click on rugby and set the time zone to your part of the world; just beware that they list both union and league games under the rubric of rugby).
In some cases streaming is the only way to watch a match because local broadcasters won’t show the match in your part of the world. There’s a lot of rugby that simply isn’t shown in Australia — even on Fox Sports. For example, if you’re an Australian interested in watching the French Top14 then streaming is the easiest way to do it since Foxtel is not interested in acquiring the rights. I know Eurosport used to show one Top 14 match a round (usually the Friday night [French time] match which isn’t necessarily the match of the round) but I’m not sure if they do that any more in Australia since Eurosport in Australia is based on British Eurosport and British Eurosport recently sold its rights in the Top14 to ESPN in the UK. There may also be one other way of watching Top14 on TV in Australia but I’m not sure if it works and even if it does it’s a lot of trouble to go to for most people. There is a French subscription satellite service available on the East Coast of Australia (only on the East coast — the service is actually directed at New Caledonia but you can pick it up in Eastern Australia) based on the French PAY TV channel Canal+. But what you get is not the full version of Canal+ and in any event they have to black out certain programs in Australia for copyright reasons. International (eg tri-nations) rugby is blacked out because an Australian broadcaster already has the rights. Not sure about Top14 rugby though. Probably no strict need to do it for legal reasons as is the case for tri-nations rugby, but they may still do it anyway.
Anyway, live streaming particularly comes in handy if you feel like watching a match from the Top14 or other European competitions not shown on Aussie tv (eg Fox Sports). But in the case of the subscription broadcasters who own the broadcast rights (eg Canal+ in France) the broadcasters are aware of the streamers and do try to shut them down to protect their investment in the broadcast rights. So even if you find a link to a live match stream it may not work or if it does it may even cease operations during the match as it gets shut down.
Pete said | November 25th 2009 @ 11:17am | Report comment
Joh,
The Top 14 is still on Eurosports (Fox), just not at regular times eact week. They even have a 30 minutes highlights package of the week. I love it. Been watching how SBW, Gasnier, Gower, Rooney, Henjak, Kepu etc have been going. I have been stunned that there is hardly any kicking in the games, its mostly run the ball stuff. Its been a pleasant change from the tests.
Joh4Canberra said | November 25th 2009 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
Pete,
thanks for your answer. I’ve been living overseas for the past 6+years (currently in the UK but have been living in other countries too) and all that I know about the rugby-on-TV situation back home is either garnered from the web or from talking to people back home. I was aware that Eurosport used to show some Top14 in Australia but I wasn’t sure if that was still the case given the fact that Eurosport UK had offloaded its Top14 to ESPN UK. But you answered my question about coverage in Australia. Thanks for that. I’ll bear it in mind if and when I finally move back home. But even if Eurosport shows one match a round and the highlights package if you really want to watch a whole match not shown on Eurosport streaming is the only possibility. I remember doing it for a big game when Carter was playing for Perpignan before he got injured.
Living in England I actually find that I follow the Top14 more than the English Guinness premiership or the Magners Celtic league. I don’t really have any tribal loyalties to a particular club in any of these competitions and from a neutral fan’s perspective I find the Top14 much more attractive rugby than the Celtic League and the English premiership. I suspect that the better weather conditions helps in this regard. I find watching flee-flowing running rugby in the South-of-France sunshine a much more attractive prospect than watching the forwards and kicking dominated rugby played in the rain and mud of the British Isles. And yes, it’s also interesting to keep an eye on the Aussies and the former «treizistes» (leaguies) in the Top14. I think the the ½ hour highlights package you mentioned is the same one that is shown in the UK and it’s good value — especially since I don’t have time to watch a lot of matches in full (and being in the UK rather than France you usually only get one or two matches per round in full anyway — unless of course you take the streaming route). But still, if your interest is in closely following the Australian players you probably need to watch full games.
Like I said I’ve been living overseas for the last 6+ years so things might have changed a bit but the thing that bugged me about the rugby offering on Foxtel and the rugby public in general in Australia was that it was/they were a bit more narrowly parochial than I’d like. Tribalism is all well and good and a necessary part of the game but that shouldn’t mean that you can’t still take an interest in what’s going on in other parts of the world. Yes of course I have *my* teams that I follow. But I’m also interested in good rugby that doesn’t involve any teams I support. And I’m even interested in following foreign rugby like the Top14. Most rugby fans I know back home wouldn’t be the slightest bit interested in watching a good game between two French teams, and even less so if the commentary was in French rather than English. Personally I don’t care what language the commentary is in. If Foxtel or someone else in Australia showed whole matches with commentary in French to save on the cost of employing an English-speaking commentator I couldn’t care less. But like I said, perhaps I’m a bit unusual in that regard
I speak a couple of foreign languages and I used to watch SBS more than any other FTA channel in Australia (and no it wasn’t for the soccer!).
Working Class Rugger said | November 25th 2009 @ 9:48am | Report comment
Ads
I’d put Beale in inside centre and Cooper at 5/8. You know what. Deans gives the young blokes more of a shot this week Imight even watch after stating I wouldn’t. People have bagged Beale out mercilessly for a while now but he is a very good player. I used to see that on a weekly basis back at School. He was handled wrong that’s all. We do have an incredibly talented and skillful young groups emerging and it may be time to see what they can offer.
Justin said | November 25th 2009 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Suddenly Beale, who played on the wing, should be a starting 10 or 12! Give us a spell, JOC crpas on him in the midfield.
Ads said | November 25th 2009 @ 11:39am | Report comment
Beale has bulked up. JOC is too small (currently) to play midfield. We need some size somewhere in our backs… Beale played really well vs Cardiff Blues. He deserves a run somewhere. I am a Waratahs supporter and have watched Beale butcher so many opportunities while playing in the pale blue but if he can turn up on Saturday and put in the same performance as the midweek game then he will convert alot more people.
Giteau has to be made to earn his spot. One of my mates said to me that he is playing shit cause his confidence is shot…well if that is the case then get him off and try something else. And if he is as passionate as he keeps telling the papers then he will work his arse of to get back into the team.
Deans said at the start of his coaching contract with the Wallabies that nobodies spot is safe…Well there is one guy that has consistently under performed this season and he has played every minute this year (roughly)….Time to give someone else a go.
JOC can take the kicks. For mine he is a more natural kicker. As they say kickers are born they are not taught. He strikes the ball much more naturally than Giteau. He just needs to put on about 5-10 kgs to be able to compete with the big boys.
I think no matter which team they pick for the Wales match the key to getting across the line is our support. This season we have had way to many one off runners. They make a great break and gain 30-40 metres only to be pulled down with no support and then either turned over or penalised for not releasing. We need to have someone supporting every time we touch the ball.
The other key is to chase our kicks. We do not have the greatest kicking game, and never really have. So if we know that our percentage is low then chase as hard as you can and put pressure on the other team. The past 3 games i have been bemused watching Cooper or Giteau hoof it down field only to find the opposition able to take the ball under no pressure from our defense and then run 10-15 metres before a gold jersey is in sight. We have a few guys out there with some toe….use it!
TommyM said | November 26th 2009 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
JOC is taller and now heavier than Giteau. Is Giteau too small to play at 12?
Working Class Rugger said | November 25th 2009 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
Joh4Canberra
Mate, I prefer the Top 14 to the GP and this year at least the ML. While I will watch Eurosports I actually prefer live streaming. The French commentators are actually quite entertaining to listen to even though it is hard to keep track of what they are saying most of the time ( my french is very. very rusty) they have a genuine passion and enthusiam for the game and ususally know what they are talking about. Plus you tend to get a much better feel of the atmosphere at the grounds which adds to the Rugby being played. Currently of the NH Pro Comps the Top 14 is by far the most entertaining.
True Tah said | November 25th 2009 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
WCR
I think the French language is actually well suited for rugby, and when players make a break, the pace and volume picks up dramatically, and thats coming from someone who has minimal knowledge of the French language.
Joh4Canberra said | November 25th 2009 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
Talking about French commentary (and as a Panthers fan) I love the French commentary (particularly from 0:52) on this try for Toulon by Luke Rooney. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y07CS_w5i7s
And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-TuhuPbZvc
And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7qpc9FVhJw
And the commentary on the ref’s “high tackle” on Henjack is also classic (as is the incident itself!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjTaMh0Pf_k
ça mérite rouge, ça!
LeftArmSpinner said | November 25th 2009 @ 11:28am | Report comment
Ads, I can agree with your personnel selections of genia, Cooper, Barnes, AAC, Ioane, and if Beale and O’Connor had good games, then give them a chance. Hynes before Turner, as much as I love Turners raw speed.
The question then is the positions they fulfill. i agree that only AAC and Genia are safe but Hynes, Cooper and Ioane are close.
Working Class Rugger said | November 25th 2009 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
LAS
I’m not sold on Hynes. So far he hasn’t really done anything to distinguish himself more than Turner. How many times has he broken the line. Yes, he’s solid but no more so than Turner.
Ben C said | November 25th 2009 @ 7:47am | Report comment
I have doubts about Ioane at 13. He has speed and power but lacks the distribution skills for centre. I have watched Mortlock refuse to pass for years, and I don’t need to go through another prolonged period of watching the wingers twiddle their thumbs. Long term AAC seems to be the best option at 13 although he too needs to work on his passing. This leaves fullback. I am convinced JOC is a bit too small and his distribution skills fit better in the midfield. As far as security goes, and he may be playing their this year anyway, I would like to try Hynes at 15. This leaves
9 Genia
10 Barnes
11 Ioane
12 Giteau/O’Connor
13 Ashley-Cooper
14 Turner
15 Hynes
Justin said | November 25th 2009 @ 11:25am | Report comment
I agree with what you say about DI and AAC. AAC is a 13 next year with Shepherd back and DI on the wing. His skill set and defensive lapses cant be tolerated at Test level.
LeftArmSpinner said | November 25th 2009 @ 11:32am | Report comment
come on ben, make a call, O’Connor or Giteau.!!! and for this weekend’s game!!!!!!
Nicol'arse said | November 25th 2009 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
Giteau has to be benched. He needs a reality check. So its O’Connor at 12… or Deans is a pussy!
Ioane is a winger… and probably the best we have…. but not a 13… ever!
It would be nice to see Cam Shepherd have a good S14 season (again) but then avoid injury and go on with it to wear the gold 15. If Shepherd is in form for 15, then AAC goes to 13. If he’s not in good form or injured, then AAC goes to 15.
Giteau should never wear 10 on his back again. He is best suited to 12. That means he needs to suck it up and become a team man… assisting either Barnes (or Cooper) at 10. I have doubts over whether he can do this. But if he can, the Walla’s would be much the better for it.
Ben C said | November 25th 2009 @ 9:03pm | Report comment
LAS That was my longer term proposal. This week:
9 Genia
10 Cooper (never thought I would suggest Carlos Spencer Jr)
11 Ioane (if fit, otherwise Mitchell)
12 O’Connor
13 Ashley-Cooper
14 Turner
15 Hynes
Harry said | November 25th 2009 @ 8:29am | Report comment
My backline for Saturday would be (assuming Genia and Ioane fit) AAC, Turner, Ioane, JOC, Hynes, Cooper, Genia Bench: Beale (covers 10 and 15 direct, move AAC to either the wings or 13 if anyone else injured) and Gits (covers 9,10 and 12). Waste of time putting Burgess on the bench and frees up another forward reserve.
Re all you Barnes disciples, I’m not convicned his body can handle professional rugby unfortuantely, he is injured more oftern than not … very sadly, its likely there will be more and more potentially great careers cutailed as the game gets increasingly hard and physical. I empahsise I really hope I’m wrong and Barnes stands up and has a long injury free run as i would also like to see him at 10 for the Wallabies.