http://dipqa.com/view/dips/224/sachin-tendulkar-most-overrated

I do not have anything against Sachin but the modern day sachin worshipper is just about the worst thing that has happened to cricket ! Gavaskar, Vishwanath, Amarnath ….now those were classy batsmen !

It has taken him no less time than any other highly regarded batsmen to achieve what he has and in lots of cases has achieved less in relation to tests played.

Lets look at some basic facts, has played almost 180 tests yet has a highest score of 248* against bangladesh. In fact 5 or 6 of his centries have come against bangladesh. Took him over 160 tests to conjure up centries in more than 3 consecutive tests.Something every other batsman has done in half the amount of tests. Has never scored centries in each innings of a test. Something the other “great” batsmen have done in half the amount of tests. Has never scored 500 runs in a tests seriers despite playing almost 180 tests. Something every other great batsmen has done at least 3 times in less than 100 tests.

The fact tendulkar plays at four gives him far more protection than many of the other great batsmen. He plays the majority of his tests on Indian soil, a place renowned for long, drawn out resultless matches and huge scores, the fact he plays the majority of his matches against weaker oppositions on weaker decks highlights even further the anomolies in Tendulkars statistics.

Compared with Lara and Ponting he has achieved much less relative to matches played. The only conclusion to be drawn from Tendulkars time in test cricket is that he was the player with the greatest time span of any career and naturally because of this was able to score more runs and centries than anyone else. To say he is the greatest or second greatest highlights a bias towards him that an objective analysis would never allow.

Written about this in my blog , and I’m just playing the devil’s advocate here. Do check it out at :
morethanjustagame.wordpress.com

Just to show how things can be twisted and served : different strokes for differert folks :

1. Averages

“Sangakarra, Kallis and Ponting all have better averages”

Ponting’s average vs Sachin’s average as it stands now:
55.68 vs 55.57
0.1 runs difference. I’ll leave it to you to decide its significance. I believe the article was written in 2009, in the eve of Ponting’s tremendous run. Sachin started yet another 1 in the late stages of 2009 and has carried on to 2010.
Learning: Let the race get over before you announce the winner.

2. Number of times Respective teams has Won the test and Ponting/Tendulkar did not have to come out to BAT in the 2nd innings:
9 vs 5!
Learning: Openers finish the job more often than not during victories for Australia than even the openers AND the 1 down batsman for India! Now 9 and 5 are just small numbers you say. How can they be used to compare anything! Well if MoMs (16 and 13 for Ponting and Tendulkar respectively) can be used, why can’t this stat be used?

3.

“Kallis and Ponting both have more man of the match awards then Tendulkar. Kallis, Ponting, Lara, Hayden and Sangakarra all receive man of the match awards at a greater strike rate than Tendulkar.”

Ah, logic, me likey. Throw in different names at convenient times. For convenience sake, let’s continue with Ponting vs Tendulkar . Why not segment the victories to suit one’s points? Not sure what I’m getting at? Well, here’s an example:
Number of times Sachin’s won a MoM award at Australia : 3
Number of times Ponting has won a MoM award at India : 0

Does Sachin perform better against the best team in the world in their own backyard than Ponting did against the one of the top contenders in theirs? See how easy it is to look at stats the way one wants to?

4. Draws:

1. DRAWS:

“Tendulkar has played an incredible 66 draws! That is almost 41% of the matches he has played have ended in a draw. Remove those matches from his average calculations and his average drops a massive 5 runs to less than 50. That is around a 10% boost from those draws. His average in drawn matches is 65. Interestingly, an analysis of Dravid produces a similar conclusion.”

Now, this one’s a tad silly. Match conditions and victories are often dependent on the the whole TEAM and not the players! Hell, it depends more on the bowlers than 1 batsmen! Is the writer faulting Sachin for not winning the game? Pretty insane! So let’s look at 1 more stat while we’re at it then bud!
Average in a Lost or Drawn Match:
Ponting: 45 , Tendulkar: 50
So how should this be interpreted? Ponting performs worse during his team’s defeats than Tendulkar does? Thus, I can summarize that even in draws and defeats, Tendulkar still plays his part better than Ponting does!!

Or should we realize that victories and defeats in test matches (especially) are a funtion of the team’s (and especially) bowler’s performances?

5.

” Note that Ponting and Sangakarra also play in the slightly less protected batting position of number 3.”

This one’s a gem. Batting at No.3 is less protected. Seriously? Again, this can be twisted to suit individual tastes. I can say that for a team like India in the late 80s and most of the 90s , a team which STRUGGLED to put a respectable opening pair , batting at No.4 or No.3 made no difference. Had Tendulkar batted at No. 3 and Ponting at No. 4 , the writer could have then said that by batting at No.3 , a higher position, Tendulkar had more chances to accumulate runs!! Hey, anything rolls , right?

Conclusions:
1.I think the intepretations, just like data and statistics , can be cherry-picked and skewed in any form we’d like. Let the careers complete and look at the whole body of work before calling someone over or under-rated.
2. PS: I do believe that there are many other players under-rated.
3. Let’s not forget that 10 other players, particularly the bowlers , contribute greatly to the team’s victory.
4. Sehwag eats boogies for dinner.

Sachin is tipped to cross 100 international(Test + ODI) hundreds by the end of this year. Only major hole in his ODI cv is a missing world-cup trophy.

In ODIS, he now has FIVE 150+ scores
150+,
160+,
170+,
180+
and now 200*

The reason Zaheer Khan received a different penalty, even though he pleaded guilty too, was because he was reported under the old system

Watson was reported under the new system

http://www.cricdb.com/archive/international/news/detail.php?nid=2468

“…ICC new ‘Code of Conduct’

..The new code streamlines the existing hearing process for minor offences and creates an incentive in those cases for players to plead guilty at an early stage, thus enabling less serious breaches to be processed without the need for a formal……”hearing”………….”.

This link is for all those aussies who questioned Sachin’s truthfulness and his role in monkeygate… This is exactly what I meant by ‘cleaning your backyard’

On a happier note;

Merry Xmas and a Happy new year

Ponting’s home average is 60, and away average is 51, difference of 9 points… 9 points to 1 for tendulkar…. Ain’t cricket great…?

You are actually right that it is not Watson’s fault that he escaped, knowing fully well that the refree is a British. But I too used the same argument for Harbhajan and monkeygate, judge placating him and all, but it just fell on deaf ears… I am not sure if you read that..

One important point which i made and you have chosen to ignore is that other teams do not report so often. Even in the last Aus-WI test, Ponting pushed Bravo but I did not hear of that incident again. While Ponting is always eager to show his dissappointment over decisions or tactics on or off the field.

I dunno about benn, but Watson did bad-mouth Gambhir and the elbowing was a consequence. There is no conspiracy but seems like a planned Aussie tactic of ‘mental disintegration’ (a term coined by Aussies). So much for the ‘spirit of the game’ and tendulkar lying…

What if the match referee imposing the fine is not an Aussie? And, more importantly, how do you explain Gambhir elbowing Watson and Benn grabbing Johnson? It sort of takes any logic out of your argument, doesn’t it? Or did the Aussies make them do that by jedi mind tricks?

You’ve got to laugh though at your suggestion that Haddin started it. If I recall correctly, Benn had already grabbed Johnson. Or is Haddin the phantom jedi warrior?

But I am amused by your replies. Much like the author, you only pick arguments that you can refute and then do so, without so much as mentioning the other ones…

For instance, you said that if the mic had picked it up, there would be no controversy; fair enough… Now, witnesses are Symonds, Clarke, Hayden and Sachin, right? Clarke said he heard nothing but the ‘monkey’ word, twice.. IMPOSSIBLE… Even Symmo acceted that he initiated the confrontation while Clarke said Symmo was innocent… Can his word be trusted? Not at all… Symmo is the alleging party, so now it’s Hayden against Sachin… 50-50, right. Also, Hayden was in the slips I think, and Sachin was closer to them…

Anyhow, Yaani has given enough quotes from the ruling to make it absolutely clear, which again you have ignored… “Even if Harbhajan was fund to be guilty, racism charges would not hold because Symmo initiated it” So if Bhajji got away with something less than racism charges (about which you guys are lamenting) then Aussies should really learn to take the bitter with the sweet. Just consider your 3 guys getting away cheaply as destiny’s patback… (Zaheer Khan was fined 80% of his match fee for giving a send off, far less theatrical than watson, by the same refree… He pleaded guilty too) I don’t think you’d be grieving over the Aussies getting away cheaply in the test-series (4 were found guilty to various degrees, highest punishment is a 20% fine)

Whatever was said was not picked up by microphones. If it was there would have been no controversy.

Hayden, Clarke, Symonds and Tendulkar (only at the appeal though) all said they heard something. Harbajin said he said something.

They all agreed that something was said They disagreed at the appeal on what was said.

But all 5 agreed that something was said that was not picked up by the microphones.

it somes under their code of conduct. This is the same code of conduct that Hayden was charged under

http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:na7cPC9Y1YQJ:cricket.com.au/site/_content/document/00000129-source.doc+%22cricket+australia%22+code+of+conduct&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

“……Without limitation, players and officials will breach this rule and be deemed to be making comment detrimental to the interests of the game if in making any public or media comment they:

publicly denigrate or criticise another player or publicly denigrate or criticise an, official, umpire, referee or team against which they have played or will play, whether in relation to incidents which occurred in a match or otherwise;…….”

I have already said it many times before, with enough examples that other teams don’t report as often as Aussies and hence they have a better record. Nothing new there. Want evidence??? Ponting pushed Bravo… Happy?

I prove thats not correct…….then you take a different tack that the good record is because of something else.

Then you say “If Aussie record is better, it is because teams don’t report them so much”

Calling someone cheats is nothing more than an allegation. I doubt if anyone can be booked over that.

How it concerns Sachin? Well, you questioned his character, dedication and what not. I just tried to show that even if do accept, which i don’t (their being no official record about it) the way he has carried himself till commands a lot, lot more respect than Ponting or anyone else deserve.

Dhoni got banned for a slow over-rate, not abusing opposition either. And I guess Dhoni would rather serve a ban for a slow over rate than make part timers bowl and let the match slip away, like Ponting did against India. So much for ‘winning-at-all-costs’.

If Aussie record is better, it is because teams don’t report them so much. For eg; Ponting was not reported against after pushing Bravo.

If Symmo went and abused first, he cannot bargain. If he gives it, he should be ready to face it too. If you throw a stone at someone, there is every chance that he throws 10 at you. You can’t coplain that you only threw one and should have faced only one.

For the 100th time, THERE WAS A PACT. Kumble said so, the mtch refree and the judge acknowledged it too. The only disputed part is the interpretation in which the judge accepted India’s version over Ponting’s.

The link that you sent about Bhajji calling symonds a monkey in India, it only says that Symmo heard it and neither the umpires or the mic reported anything. I might be wrong but I would have some doubts before taking Symond’s word on face-value.

Code of Conduct Commissioner Ron Beazley issued a reprimand of Hayden as penalty for the breach

Nothing was covered up so I don’t know what your point was.

Other people say unpleasant things but again what has it got to do with Tendulkar

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/cricket/indias-sehwag-calls-aussies-cheats/story-e6frey50-1111117702189

“India’s Sehwag calls Aussies cheats”

About Harbhajan calling Symonds a monkey in India, there is no evidence except Symonds’ word. I’d find it hard to take it on face-value. C’mon if you guys cannot take Sachin’s or Kumble’s word, who have lived a far more dignified life, than Symonds word is as good as trash if not supported by evidence.

Bradman on Ponting: Bradman said Tendulkar played like him. I doubt even if he had watched Ponting he would have said the same. Sachin’s ‘style’ of batting was closer to Don’s.

And please clarify your problem with the monkeygate. Is it that Symmo was racially abused, or that Harbhajan got away cheaply with it or is it that Sachin lied? Whatever option you pick, I will give you Aussie doing the same or even worse.

I am sure everyAussie by now nows of the Haddin- Benn – Johnson incident… It started with an incidental clash between ‘hapless’ johnson and ‘arrogant’ benn… and then, ‘poor’ haddin points his bat at benn and in all probability uttered some very nice words apologising to benn.. But benn doesn’t like it and at the end of the over, moves towards haddin and johnson comes in between and ‘not at all deliberately’ makes physical contact with benn…

Who is at fault? That’s right – Benn.. Interesting thing is, it was Haddin who initiated it while poking his nose where it hould not have been.. For God’s sake, the clash was between Johnson and Benn..

Contrast it with something that happened the previous day – Ponting pushes Bravo but that incident is played down…

I found out some coincidentally interesting trivia…

1. There are 4 Test-Series going around at the moment, and where do you find a breach of code of conduct? Where Australia plays (which is not as competitive even)

2. Last physical contact? Gambhir elbowed Watson

3. What is common between Bhajji, Gambhir and Benn? All three had performed well against Australia in the previous or present match and then got punished (Benn is sure to get punished)

Dave, you need more stark evidence on Aussies’ way of playing???

and yeah, PONTING DID PUSH BRAVO…

Hoping for a reply, Dave…