By Darren Walton
November 27th 2009 @ 1:19am
Related coverage
Deans the man despite Jones-like record
Wallaby coach Robbie Deans watches his team train in Sydney, Australia. AP Photo/Mark Baker
It was in Cardiff during this same November week four years ago that Eddie Jones learned his four-year reign as Wallabies coach was about to end, regardless of how his side fared against Wales that weekend.
The Australian Rugby Union considered seven defeats in eight Tests simply unacceptable.
Jones would have to go.
The burning question now is how can Robbie Deans’ position be so secure – as ARU boss John O’Neill stated this week – when Australia’s record in 2009 is uncannily similar to that dire run in 2005?
The Wallabies take on Wales on Saturday having won just two of their past 10 Tests.
Before his sacking, Jones’s class of ‘05 had lost three times to South Africa, twice to New Zealand, and once each to France and England on the spring tour before thrashing Ireland at Lansdowne Road in a result obviously viewed as meaningless to the doomed coach’s employers.
Deans’ mob have succumbed four times to New Zealand, twice to South Africa, beaten the Springboks once, as well as England at Twickenham, drawn with Ireland and suffered a first loss to Scotland in 27 years.
Why then should Deans, sleeping in the same Cardiff hotel at which Jones learned his fate, have the relative comfort of comfort of knowing he will be on deck next season even if the Wallabies stumble again on Saturday at Millennium Stadium?
There are several reasons, not least that O’Neill is not about to damage his own reputation by punting the coach he ushered in with much ado 18 months ago as the saviour of Australian rugby.
This consideration alone cannot be underestimated.
O’Neill, one of the most successful administrators Australian sport has known, is extremely unlikely to publicly admit he blundered in appointing the Wallabies’ first foreign coach.
That aside, to even contemplate a coaching change midway through the four-year World Cup cycle requires having available candidates capable of successfully filling the void.
Presuming the ARU wouldn’t go down the foreign path again, at least not immediately, there are no real viable options.
In truth, Jones, credited by the South African players as hugely influential in helping the Springboks win the 2007 World Cup after teaming with Jake White, remains Australia’s most qualified coach.
But he won’t be back.
There are options but they are limited.
Before Deans’s late application, Ewen McKenzie – Jones’s assistant during Australia’s run to the 2003 World Cup final – was a contender to take over from John Connolly after guiding the NSW Waratahs to two Super 12/14 finals and three play-off series in five years.
McKenzie, though, has recently committed to the Queensland Reds after being shown the door at Stade Francais and is not one to walk out on a contract.
Of the other Australian Super rugby coaches, the Brumbies’ Andy Friend and Waratahs’ Chris Hickey need to achieve something at provincial level before being entrusted with national team responsibilities and the Western Force’s John Mitchell is a Kiwi.
Randwick old boy Michael Chieka, who coached Rocky Elsom’s Leinster to European Cup glory this year, could be a future possibility.
In all likelihood, though, the Wallabies’s next coach is already working at the ARU.
High-performance unit manager and spring tour selector David Nucifora would almost certainly step in if Deans were to go – just as he would have if Deans had not come along in the first place.
But Deans isn’t going anywhere. He is still the best man for the job and has had considerably less time than Jones enjoyed to turn things around.
While this season he shares a similarly poor win-loss record, as well as the same “you can get too much sleep” approach to life, Deans has two key things in his favour that Jones didn’t.
Deans, with superior man-management skills, retains the full support of his players and he has also shown enough to offer the ARU hope that the Wallabies will be a force at the 2011 World Cup in New Zealand.
As captain Elsom noted this week, it’s the players, not Deans, who are committing the exasperating errors that have cost the Wallabies so dearly both in the Tri Nations and on the ill-fated grand slam tour of the UK and Ireland.
The hope stems from the fact that, despite Deans introducing some 16 players to the Test arena during his 18-month tenure, and thus reducing the average age of the current Australian side to just 24, the Wallabies have retained their place in the top three in the world rankings and remained competitive against the All Blacks and Springboks.
They have led the All Blacks at halftime in five of their past six straight losses to the their trans-Tasman rivals and victory over the world champion Springboks in September is proof the potential is there.
It is worth noting that on the 2005 northern hemisphere tour Jones was without virtually a full team of injured players, including stars Stephen Larkham, Stirling Mortlock, Jeremy Paul and Dan Vickerman.
Equally, though, the absence of first-choice centres Mortlock and tour vice-captain Berrick Barnes and lineout leader Nathan Sharpe could well have been the difference between Deans being under pressure and the Wallabies shooting for the grand slam against Wales.
Wales coach and fellow Kiwi Warren Gatland perhaps offered the best perspective of where Deans and the Wallabies sit heading into their final Test of the year.
“I’ve got a huge amount of respect for Robbie and what he’s achieved in rugby and Super 14 and the successes that he’s had,” Gatland said.
“I think out of the three Tri Nations teams, they’re the team that’s played the most rugby. They’ve got a very young side that are developing.
“There’s a lot of potential there and they will gain a huge amount of experience from this northern hemisphere tour and, in two years’ time, I think you’ll see a really strong Australian side.
“They’ve been creating a lot. They haven’t been finishing things off, but they do go out and try and play rugby and play the game in a positive style.”
Wallabies’ Test record under coaches Eddie Jones and Robbie Deans
EDDIE JONES (2001-2005)
OVERALL: Played 57, won 33, drawn 1, lost 23
Winning strike rate: 57.89 per cent
LAST 10 TESTS (2-0-8)
bt South Africa 30-12, Sydney, 2005
lost to South Africa 33-20, Johannesburg, 2005
lost to South Africa 22-16, Pretoria, 2005
lost to New Zealand 30-13, Sydney, 2005
lost to South Africa 22-19, Perth, 2005
lost to New Zealand 34-24, Auckland, 2005
lost to France 26-16, Marseilles, 2005
lost to England 26-16, London, 2005
bt Ireland 30-14, Dublin, 2005
lost to Wales 24-22, Cardiff, 2005
ROBBIE DEANS (2008-)
OVERALL: Played 27, won 14, drawn 1, lost 12
Winning strike rate: 51.85 per cent
PAST 10 TESTS (2-1-7)
lost to New Zealand 22-16, Auckland
lost to South Africa 29-17, Cape Town
lost to New Zealand 19-18, Sydney
lost to South Africa 32-25, Perth
bt South Africa 21-6, Perth
lost to New Zealand 33-6, Wellington
lost to New Zealand 32-19, Tokyo
bt England 18-9, London
drew with Ireland 20-20, Dublin
lost 9-8 to Scotland, Edinburgh
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(29)
formeropenside said | November 27th 2009 @ 8:21am | Report comment
It would have been interesting if Alan Jones got the job back in 2008. With these results, he could be punted and a new coach inserted seamlessly, but JO’N has nailed his flag to the mast with Deans.
Bring back Knuckles as dual Queensland and Australian coach. McKenzie can run the forwards. The backs can look after themself.
sheek said | November 27th 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment
“Bring back knuckles as dual Queensland & Australian coach. McKenzie to run the forwards. The backs can look after themselves.”
You kid….. right? On all 3 counts.
One of John O’Neill’s favourite mantras is, “you have to work in the world as it is, not how you would like it. ” As much as this comment can aggravate me at times, it is largely true.
We can all aspire to higher things, but in our day to day lives we have to deal with the world as it is. O’Neill, despite his prickly, confrontational nature, is still an outstanding administrator. Although his effectiveness appears to be dimming. You can only get so many people off-side before the tide begins to turn against you.
Whatever Dean’s faults, he remains the best option as Wallabies coach. In any case, the problems of Australian rugby run deeper than the man who is national coach.
Connolly is yesterday’s man. Whatever wrongs may have been done to him in the past, his day has come & gone. Ditto Alan Jones. McKenzie might still be in the frame, although I doubt it.
I just think there are far more important issues Australian rugby lovers ought to be focusing on, rather than Deans – Our poor player participation levels; poor recruitment numbers; poor identification & nurturing of talent; poor relations between state bodies & their grassroots; poor coaching at all levels from juniors to seniors; subsequent poor basic skills; inadequate structures & incentive pathways, a game that general fans struggle to identify with, etc, etc, etc…..
stillmissit said | November 27th 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Sheek – Quote: ‘I just think there are far more important issues Australian rugby lovers ought to be focusing on, rather than Deans – Our poor player participation levels; poor recruitment numbers; poor identification & nurturing of talent; poor relations between state bodies & their grassroots; poor coaching at all levels from juniors to seniors; subsequent poor basic skills; inadequate structures & incentive pathways, a game that general fans struggle to identify with, etc, etc, etc…..’
Very well said and I cannot endorse your view enough. Lets get into the real issues and stop this superficial rubbish. Our sport is dying at it’s roots in many areas as Sheek says and all we can talk about is sacking a good coach.
Out West where I am the numbers of players is reducing year on year, there are some well run exceptions but most clubs are struggling, combining or closing their doors. This is regardless of the fact that more schoolboys are playing the game than ever before it is just that not enough are taking it up after school.
Skills are non existent in new players and we have to start from scratch. Let’s wake up and realise the Mum’s have scared there little darlings into not playing the game. Whereas the girls are taking the game up in numbers – go figger!
formeropenside said | November 27th 2009 @ 9:37am | Report comment
sheek, yes I kid on all three counts, although I would happily give up McKenzie as Qld coach to get a proper Queenslander in the role.
To me, the underlying problems are too many made up teams diluting rugby heartlands, and no ARC. The made up teams just poach from the established sides, especially by aiming at schoolboys (ie Pocock and O’Connor). This then leads everyone into a mad scramble to bring on young talent when it is probably better served by a few years of club or ARC rugby (if we had an ARC). As a result, club players get overlooked in the contract rush, and go offshore.
If we must have 4 (or now 5!) teams, they should be under the control of the State Unions: NSW II and Qld White (its what the Schoolboy comp does). When other areas produce players, fine. Until then they are mere parasites doing no good to Australian rugby.
Then of course there are the problems with the game itself at present: not allowing proper rucking is one, and another change that should be made is to re-allow dummy passing from the base of the scrum, ruck or maul. Combine with offside penalties and you would see more space open up again for backlines.
sheek said | November 27th 2009 @ 11:54am | Report comment
FOS (Fossy?),
With respect to the provinces, I agree entirely majority control must rest with the state bodies. While I acknowledge the positive role of business equity in providing more funds for the code, the state bodies are there for the long haul, not for novelty’s sake.
Chris said | November 27th 2009 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Please don’t insult Jones by comparing him to Deans. Jones never lost to Scotland. Jones also never led Australia to the largest defeat in their history. Unlike Jones, Deans has never won the Tri Nations. Deans will not got anywhere near extra time in a world cup final as Jones did.
sheek said | November 27th 2009 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
Chris,
Methinks you harbour much ill-will towards Deans. And while you vent your spleen on the national coach, you ignore the many other problems bedeviling the game.
cookee said | November 27th 2009 @ 7:14pm | Report comment
SHEEK give the guy a fair hearing.deans record at this levei is poor and aust have not needed an outside coach to perform well at rwcs so please dont rubbish prospective coaches and be honest regarding dismal results.
you are coming across like a couple of old cronies and the roar your club
Pete said | November 27th 2009 @ 8:05pm | Report comment
Chris, Eddie Jones… you are kidding right!? Deans is a far more successful coach overall than Jones. JOnes is a brilliant strategist, but Deans is a better coach.
Jones inherited a team at their peak with players like Gregan, Larkham etc. Deans inherited a team after our worst RWC result, gave it one year for the dust to settle and then cleaned it out and brought in a team of many novices. Jones had a team, Deans is building one.
Blacky said | November 28th 2009 @ 1:16am | Report comment
aahhh Pete, I believe he is talking about Alan Jones.
Chris said | November 28th 2009 @ 8:58pm | Report comment
I was talking about Eddie – but I guess it doesn’t matter which one you pick, both achieved far more as Wallabies coach than Deans.
Hansie said | November 27th 2009 @ 10:40am | Report comment
I don’t know about Deans having the full support of his players. I read too much stuff in the papers suggesting discontent. I know you can’t believe everything you read, but it’s usually true that where there’s smoke there’s fire. The thing saving Deans is that O’Neill has invested too much in Deans, and cannot back down without losing credibility.
stillmissit said | November 27th 2009 @ 11:42am | Report comment
In failure there is always discontent. Nobody will wear the badge of failure if they can pin it on someone else.
cookee said | November 27th 2009 @ 7:16pm | Report comment
ISNT THAT THE TRUTH;AND ITS BILINGUAL
Paul J said | November 27th 2009 @ 11:52am | Report comment
One point i got out of that article is that in 2005 the Wallabies were poor but by 2007 they came within a whisker of winning the world cup.
Also the Wallabies were poor in 1997 and then won the World Cup in 1999. Two years is a very long time in sport.
Deans has injected youth into the Wallabies and in 2009 they are poor. What’s stopping them being a far more experienced and greater team in 2011?
Darwin hammer said | November 27th 2009 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
“but by 2007 they came within a whisker of winning the world cup” … what by association of losing in the quarter finals to the beaten finalists ?
PastHisBest said | November 27th 2009 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
Very large whisker indeed!
damos_x said | November 27th 2009 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
personally i from the Shane Warne school of opinion on coaches so it exasperates me to see so much debate on who is the coach or how they do it etc. To my mind a coach needs to be someone who can impart some wisdom & experience to younger players to help them learn & fit in & go on to become better & more experienced players who don’t need to be coached & also keeps the older more experienced players just humming along doing what they do best & teaming them up with the younger guys so that everyone learns & improves from each other & off you go. these days a coach needs to be a networker as much as anything so they have specialists they can get involved to help fine tune things like kicking for goal & in general play, scrummaging etc so that players learn from the experience of people who are outside of their normal environment & are exposed to different types of play etc. The best players should be selected & from there allowed to do their thing which is how we have such great memories of a man like Campese, could you imagine him today, not fitting into team culture & being too much of an individual & we’d never have seen him. Look at Australian cricket, losing a talent like Symonds because essentially the man enjoys a beer while he watches the footy, what a crime, so if this is a problem & we need a coach to be responsible for everything then i actually pity the poor fool who even applies for such a job. People say coaches are motivators but by goodness, if you play rugby & want to play for Australia & need to be motivated then hand back the jersey because we have others who are keener than you whether you are more talented or not.
Mushi said | November 27th 2009 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Rugby is a little different to cricket in terms of game planning etc.
Changing coaches isn’t going turn Matt’s clock back three years, changing coaches isn’t going to give us locks, props and flankers that are on par with the rest of the world.
Maybe we need to just realise that we aren’t that good?
John Eales isn’t waking through that door…
Paul J said | November 27th 2009 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
Darwin Hammer
My apologies …i confused 2007 with 2003…duh!
My point is that 2 years is a very long time in sport. Deans is injecting youth into the team now, not 6 months out from the next world cup. Only time will tell how much they progress but the form of the wallabies now should not be seen as a firm indication of how they will fare in 2011.
cookee said | November 27th 2009 @ 7:21pm | Report comment
so we just aim at winning every 4 years;is that your point.
hope the code can sustain the interest in the interim
Stash said | November 27th 2009 @ 9:10pm | Report comment
I agree… England pulled out a big game at the last world cup…after being generally rubbish during their reign.
In some ways I wished that England had actually pulled off a coup and taken the last WC… thereby making a mockery of it. So many coaches bleating about building, experimenting, games not worth anything mentality when focusing on the WC (2.5 time a decade) to the detriment of annual rugby in its totality, if you ask me.
I would like to see a Northern vs Southern Hemisphere cup as recently proposed every 2 years.
johnny-boy said | November 27th 2009 @ 8:16pm | Report comment
As mentioned in another post Australia could in fact put together a very good coaching team. Dwyer as skills coach (he seems to think he knows all about it), Alan Jones as motivator ( i’m not a big fan of his but he has got a good mouth) and Macqueen as tactical and head coach (it is reported he s putitng his hand up again for Melbourne). Foley and Noreiga have done a great job of scrum. Maybe ella as backs coach. We could do a lot worse – like now !
Pete said | November 27th 2009 @ 8:18pm | Report comment
Nice to finally read a balanced article on the Wallabies http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_5722979,00.html
Stash said | November 27th 2009 @ 9:15pm | Report comment
Maybe they could just make Deans the Team Manager… just like Martin Johnson.
They must both be competing for the lame duck coach of the year award.
8 losses out of 10 – absolutely dreadful performance by Deans.
Knives Out said | November 27th 2009 @ 10:06pm | Report comment
‘They must both be competing for the lame duck coach of the year award.’
How could Johnson compete for that given he isn’t a coach.
Best 6N finish since 2003 and the most 6N tries scored since 2003. Watch this space…
mistackle said | November 28th 2009 @ 10:04pm | Report comment
i watched the scottish game after reading about the loss and all the bad to horrendous press. i thought the wallabies were very unlucky to not win it. 3 missed kicks, 2 sitters. crossing the line 3 times. i think we should give em a break – till tonight -
bennalong said | November 28th 2009 @ 11:11pm | Report comment
Deans HAS made a difference.
But due to injury this is not the number one team. It may turn out to be but we have had a bad run and too many personnel changes
Nevertheless Deans is building a sizeable playing squad and I think his expectations are close to being met. The Crusaders had great players but their greatness has come from teamwork and backing up in numbers (read fitness as well, but aerobic not power)
This only comes when everyone is playing from the same manual, and since Deans preaches ‘play what’s in front of you’ the individual must see WHAT THE TEAM CAN DO with what he sees, not just what HE can do.
Haven’t got there with Gits but Cooper can pass a long way and his vision is broad too. He’s been watching Barnes and his improvement has been substantial
Deans will use adversity as a teacher, I believe, and many players can now thank him for showing confidence in them despite failure. (Maybe Gits will be won over the same way !)
We have a dour Captain who is growing into the role, The lineout threatens to be acceptable, the scrum dominant, and speed to the loose ball good. We’re turning over more opposition ball and we don’t give up
If Giteau gives us parity with the boot, I believe we will beat Wales in the usual way. We will control the game but have to deal with an unfavourable penalty count.
This is not all that unusual for the Wallabies. Even our great teams rarely show that ruthlessness in dominating a clearly inferior team by piling on points like the AllBlacks.
Knives Out said | November 28th 2009 @ 11:34pm | Report comment
I see you’re a glass half-full kind of chap.