By Pippinu -
November 29th 2009 @ 5:05am
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The best in the world returns to Canberra
We rarely focus on female sport, even when there are events that are more than worthy of our attention. One such scenario has been quietly bubbling away in the background over the past week, and that is the impending return of Lauren Jackson to the Canberra Capitals for the remainder of the WNBL season.
The story has been slowly and quietly bubbling away because getting Jackson’s signature has been dependent on the local Canberra business community, small as it is, raising a $220,000 purse.
In the end, aided by a gift from the ACT government of $50,000, some sixteen businesses in total made up the remainder to finally reach the target.
This is big news because we are basically talking about the best female basketballer in the world who would be able to earn much more than that on the European circuit. She earned that much back in 2004 for a five game guest appearance for Moscow club Spartak, which also happens to be her current club.
Jackson decided to opt out of her two year contract with Spartak soon after the untimely death of club owner, Shabtai von Kalmanovich.
Immediately upon arriving at that decision, she became hot property, so the Canberra community has done well to bring her back home against some stiff competition.
When straight talking Capitals coach, Steffie Graf, was asked about the displacing effect the return of Jackson might have on other team members, she replied: “Tough!” She quite rightly pointed out that for most of the team members, it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to train and play with the very best in the world.
I lived and worked for a short period near the Capitals’ home base in Tuggeranong about eight years ago, and despite the very best of intentions, never got to see Jackson play live.
Canberra people shouldn’t let this opportunity pass because, after this season, they may never see Jackson playing out of Tuggeranong again.
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On a slightly different note, but still related to women’s sport with a Canberra twist, I’ve just read that Belconnen’s Alice Broughton has been invited to play Aussie Rules with the Canadian team, Calgary Kookaburras, and to be an assistant coach with the Canadian national team.
Calgary plays in a five team 9-a-side women’s competition, which they are hoping to eventually expand to the standard 18-a-side format in due course.
The Canadian’s are assisting with air fares and expenses while finding her work in Calgary for the duration of her stint, and we wish her all the best with her rather unique endeavour.
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Andrew Sutherland said | November 29th 2009 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
Mens basketball hasn’t had much focus in recent times either. Well done Pip on mentioning what would be a coup for Australian womens basketball. Most people will assume Jackson will choose America.
Perhaps with your next article you can draw sjoelbak and korfball out of the woodwork.
Pippinu said | November 29th 2009 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
Thanks for the comments Andrew.
It’s been a long time since I’ve held a sjoelbak disk in my hand! (but I guess once a sjoelbakker, always a sjoelbakker).
Greg Russell said | November 30th 2009 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
Good article, but just one quibble:
“we are basically talking about the best female basketballer in the world”
She is a two-time WNBA MVP (2003, 3007; cf. Swoopes and Leslie both 3 times), however she has not won the award the last two years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award). So let’s just leave it at
“she is one of the very best female basketballers in the world”.
This is what I call “reverse cultural cringe”: out of insecurity Australians (and even more so New Zealanders) have a desperate need to proclaim something local as “world’s best” just because it is very, very good (I reckon there’d be many NZers who genuinely believe right now that Ryan Nelsen is the best defender in world football).
LJ is an extraordinary athlete and basketballer who is right up there with the world’s best. But the competition in this regard is fierce, and the truth is she does not dominate the boards as a Jordan or a Shaq (etc.) have.
Pippinu said | November 30th 2009 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
Greg
it’s a matter of opinion of course, but Swoopes is 38 years old, and Leslie is 37 years old – and in proclaiming Jackson the very best now – I wasn’t saying she was the very best of all time.
Darwin hammer said | November 30th 2009 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
“proclaim something local as “world’s best” just because it is very, very good (I reckon there’d be many NZers who genuinely believe right now that Ryan Nelsen is the best defender in world football” …
I think that’s more the preserve of the Australians than kiwis – esp when over hyping their rugby players …. but I can guarantee that zero NZers esp those involved in all levels of football would describe Nelson in this way – utter utter crap comment
Greg Russell said | December 1st 2009 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
Love your work too mate. Let me know when you have finished interviewing all 4 million NZers, in order to fulfill your guarantee. That should keep this website free of your enlightened comments for a while.
Incidentally, when you have finished your 4 million interviews, I’ll produce the RadioSport transcripts and Press articles that evidence my comment. Then again, I get the impression you don’t care much for evidence.
Ora said | December 1st 2009 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
Because the press says it it means it’s true is that what you are saying Greg?
I am a member of a football club here in Auckland and I have never heard anyone say that Ryan Nelson is the best defender in the world
Also can you provide the links to these so called articles and also the names of Radio journos who have also said this?
Like I said above I’ve heard nothing of the sort and I play football.
Pippinu said | December 1st 2009 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
Guys – I’ll take full responsibility for perhaps been a little bit loose with language by declaring LJ as “the very best in the world”- it is probably more accurate to simply put her amongst the best and leave it at that – and in truth – I’m not really a big enough expert to be declaring anyone as the best.
But all that aside – it’s a massive coup for the Capitals and the Canberra community.
Greg Russell said | December 1st 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
A constant problem with people at this website is that they don’t actually read what others have written. So here is what I wrote:
“I reckon there’d be many NZers who genuinely believe right now that Ryan Nelsen is the best defender in world football”
Nowhere in this do I imply “Because the press says it it means it’s true”. Nowhere in this do I imply that “esp those involved in all levels of football would describe Nelson in this way”, or that “a member of a football club here in Auckland” (or any club for that matter) would think this. I would have to be an idiot if I really believed these things. Think of me what you like, but I’m not an idiot.
As for the evidence, go to the RadioSport NZ website and download the talkback transcripts for Sunday 15 November, and you’ll find plenty of NZers ringing up and waxing lyrical about how good Ryan Nelsen is … simply because he organized the NZ defence to, somewhat luckily, keep that great force of world football, Bahrain, goalless. In my original comment I never implied that these talkback callers knew anything about football. Rather, they were just enthusiastic Kiwis getting caught up in the moment (good luck to them!), and exaggerating Nelsen’s abilities out of proportion (see my original comment on “reverse cultural cringe” – that’s all I was actually commenting on).
For written comments to this effect (waxing lyrical on Nelsen), see Tony Smith in The Press (Christchurch) in the week afterwards, I would guess either the Tuesday or Wednesday.
Now here’s what Dh wrote: “I can guarantee that zero NZers”
After he delivers me satisfactory proof that “zero NZers” ever think or thought what I claimed, I will be happy to chase up said evidence (see above) myself. For now, I have better things to do with my time.
Greg Russell said | December 1st 2009 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
(Obviously this comment is not directed at Pip but at Ora.)
Darwin hammer said | December 1st 2009 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
so waxing lyrical now .. rather than believing that Nelson is the best defender in the world – there’s a bit of a difference – his performance in Wgtn certainly was worthy of people making positive comments – he played well, lead the team well and deserves the plaudits for it …
I’ll ignore your latest snide bit – you’re just not worth it
katzilla said | December 2nd 2009 @ 3:59am | Report comment
Provide the links to your sources Greg.
Otherwise you might as well say Marvin the Martian said……..
Pippinu said | December 2nd 2009 @ 7:17am | Report comment
I’m sorry I said she was the best in the world!!!
Darwin hammer said | December 1st 2009 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
love your work too Greg – it seems obvious from many of your posts on here you subscribe to the Stephen Jones school of commentary – ie write snide comments that you know will incite a rebuff – sit back and wait for these comments – and then point to these reponses as evidence that the group you have chosen to belittle take themselves far too seriously … you often “quote” radiosport as your source of reference – why am I not surprised that this is your point of reference and it from here you draw your conclusions that those talkback callers represent mainstream NZ … as I said utter crap comment
Freud of Football said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:26am | Report comment
DH and Ora, seeing as you neither of you can even spell Ryan NELSEN’s name correctly I’m going to jump in Greg’s boat here as you both have no idea.
One of the most frustrating conversations I’ve ever had was with a Kiwi who tried to convince me that Vettori is not only the best spinner in the world but currently the best player in the world (He’d just taken a hat full so he was obviously suffering from vertigo), he produced lots of statistics and noted his prowess with the bat etc. etc. but the fact of the matter is, both Australian’s and Kiwi’s overstate how good they are, it’s some sort of complex which stems from trying to prove to the world how great we are.
I don’t know about the mood in NZ after the game but I’m sure Greg wouldn’t have made a statement, based on facts – which you both misinterpreted – if he wasn’t sure that those facts were available to him.
katzilla said | December 2nd 2009 @ 3:42am | Report comment
Greg and Freud
Neither of you can provide ‘Facts’ to back up what Greg claims –
‘out of insecurity Australians (and even more so New Zealanders)’
Rubbish, how did you come to this conclusion? Is your ‘Reverse Cringe’ diagnosis in the DSM IV?
‘I reckon there’d be many NZers who genuinely believe right now that Ryan Nelsen is the best defender in world football’
Because you ‘Reckon’ therefore its true? A kiwi tells you he doesn’t agree and you ask him to provide proof? What a toss. Where is your proof that Kiwis think this way?
Freud, using a conversation with a drunk guy as proof of the frustrating arrogance of Kiwis is poor form. Like no one else in the world talks rubbish about their sports heroes when they’re drunk?
I had a conversation with a guy at the Opera bar last week who genuinely thought Australia were a chance to win the World Cup.
Greg Russell said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:44am | Report comment
The most pertinent comment I have written is “A constant problem with people at this website is that they don’t actually read what others have written.”
99% of the things that Freud and I are accused of, we did not write. Where did Freud write that his interlocutor was drunk? (“He’d just taken a hat full” is surely referring to Daniel taking wickets). Where did I write that Nelsen did not play well in Wellington and was not deserving of plaudits? Where did I write that “talkback callers represent mainstream NZ”? (although many sociologists would argue that they do). Where did I imply that if a talkback caller says that Ryan Nelsen is best in the world, then it must be correct? (These are just some examples.)
All I actually was relating is that I had heard some (actually, quite a few) talkback callers say a particular thing about Nelsen. And then a whole lot of people jump in and basically say that it’s impossible that any talkback caller could have said what I heard (let me quote again: “I can guarantee that zero NZers … would describe Nelson in this way” – I don’t actually see any ambiguity in this claim).
The best one, though, is that a guy writes that I made an “utter utter crap comment”, and then, when I respond in a sarcastic but non-rude way (cf. what he wrote), he claims “you subscribe to the Stephen Jones school of commentary – ie write snide comments that you know will incite a rebuff”. I’m sorry, but go back to my original comment, and show me what was “snide” about it or how I was trying to “incite” anything.
Guys – rather than going ballistic when someone expresses a different opinion to your own, and then spending your time inventing untrue extrapolations to what that person has written, why not just spend a bit more time reading what actually has been written?
I quite agree that what I wrote about cultural cringe is just an opinion that I could no more provide definitive evidence for than you could provide definitive evidence against. But everything else you have written is invention.
(And I’m not sure why katzilla steadfastly chooses to ignore the leads I provided to sources.)
katzilla said | December 2nd 2009 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
All you provide are mentions of leads Greg, no links.
Until you provide proof your making it all up.
Answer me this question then –
Why the need to have a dig at Kiwis during your ‘Insecurities’ post?
I know you live there, is your stay uncomfortable?
I really don’t get it, it wasn’t required to make your point, but you choose to put it in there.
And its not the first time you’ve done it.
DH is right, it is a snide comment and very much so in the Stephen Jones school of commentary.
Basically Greg you’ve made a generalisation about a race of people, usually referred to as racism (putting your own people in a same but lesser boat doesn’t make it right)
Its embarassing for this Website that your a registered Columnist.
And you wonder why people don’t read all of your posts? Its a bit hard to get past that comment.
If Freud isn’t talking about the guy having a ‘Hat Full’ rather then Vettori taking a hat full of wickets then the mistake is mine and i apologise to him. But my point stands regardless of intoxication or not. Many people talk up their sports stars beyond their true worth.
A few Aussies i know think Green WILL win tonight.
Darwin hammer said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
“Where did I write that Nelsen did not play well in Wellington and was not deserving of plaudits?”
Your right I really don’t know where I got that idea from – well perhaps from
“you’ll find plenty of NZers ringing up and waxing lyrical about how good Ryan Nelsen is … simply because he organized the NZ defence to, somewhat luckily, keep that great force of world football, Bahrain, goalless.”
I’d consider that a snide remake and denigrates Nelsen’s contribution
as for FoF’s contribution – reading it literally he’s based his entire argument on the fact that I misspelt Nelsen’s name … judge that how you will …
Greg Russell said | December 3rd 2009 @ 11:03am | Report comment
Your comment here seems to be a classic example of my statement about “spending your time inventing untrue extrapolations to what that person has written”.
Where does my sentence “denigrate Nelsen’s contribution” and say he did not play well and did not deserve plaudits? These are invented extrapolations. What my sentence actually does is denigrate Bahrain. Just because I urge for an achievement to be seen in the perspective of how good the opposition is, that does not mean I am denigrating that person.
As for Katzilla’s “Basically Greg you’ve made a generalisation about a race of people, usually referred to as racism”: (1) see james below (“you’ve got racism wrong there. Generalising what a country’s people might do or think is not racism”), (2) if I belittled a group of people, then it was unintentional, as already explained in a comment (presumably unread).
Finally, “Its embarassing for this Website that your a registered Columnist. And you wonder why people don’t read all of your posts?”
I do not wonder (especially in the present cases), and I am truly relieved to learn that you feel this way about what I write.
(Actually, from the present exchange it’s already very evident that you don’t actually read what I write. If you did, then you would simply have written “I disagree with your opinion about ‘reverse cultural cringe’”, and that would have been that, as opposed to inventing ghosts, e.g. racism. An irony is that the actual subject of my original comment to Pip – that LJ should not be called “the best female basketballer in the world” – is the same as a posting you yourself have made below. See, we are not so different after all. Ouch, that’s a really low – Danny Green-like? – blow, isn’t it.)
katzilla said | December 4th 2009 @ 12:39am | Report comment
Greg, like i said below, its not for you or James to tell me what Racism is.
Your not quite sure what it is and thinking its ok to make genralisations about another group of people is actually racist.
Asians are bad drivers? Thats in the same boat but is a racist comment.
Jews are Tight with money? Another generalisation and also racist.
Its not for you to tell me what racist is.
My embarrasment comment is directed at you because you obviously have no idea about your effect when making denigrating comments.
Through ignorance or arrogance it is still racism.
My comment about Green was an example of people being over confident in their sports stars. It stands, he did well and got a great punch in good on him.
But before most gave him a chance, not a ‘He will definately win’
I would write that i disagree with your opinion if you were entitled to make that assumption.
But your not.
Greg Russell said | December 2nd 2009 @ 10:13am | Report comment
Incidentally: “the group you have chosen to belittle”
I was not trying to belittle anyone. If I did inadvertently belittle by writing “out of insecurity Australians (and even more so New Zealanders)”, then I was belittling all Australians and all NZers, which means I was belittling both myself (an Australian) and my children (who are NZers).
As for your comment: “I think that’s more the preserve of the Australians than kiwis – esp when over hyping their rugby players”
I actually agree with this about Australians and rugby players, and I feel it’s what drives a lot of the commentary at this website, i.e., Australians overestimating the abilities of Wallabies, and therefore being disappointed by results. You’ll actually find I have written a Roar article on this if you care to look.
Is it being snide and Stephen Jones-like that I can (1) sometimes agree with you, and (2) admit it? (OK, this comment is a bit snide, but I’m just trying to make a point – we should all try to be even-handed.)
Stanley said | November 30th 2009 @ 4:59pm | Report comment
Great article. I think the WNBL is a fantastic product that is vastly under rated by the sporting public.
I try to follow the fortunes of the league but admit that I was surprised that the Caps coach was “Steffie Graf”
I think that should be 6 time WNBL Championship coach and current Australian Opals coach Carrie Graf.
No doubt we love to pump up our players as ‘the best in the world’. The media here seems to like to comment that Kristie Harrower is the best point guard in the world. Australia is a power in world basketball but I’m not sure we have the number one point guard and the number one power forward in the game at the moment.
Interesting that both players will be on court on Saturday afternoon live on the ABC. Won’t settle this debate but will definately be worth watching.
Pippinu said | December 1st 2009 @ 6:54am | Report comment
Stanley
thanks for the comments – and yes you’re right – that’s quite embarassing – I might ask the Roar editors to change that from Steffie to Carrie.
I have a bad habit of writing off the top of my head and not double checking – that’s why I appear on the right hand side of the Roar!
As a general comment – the Opals have been unbelievable for women’s sport in Australia over a 15 year period – and I know plenty follow their exploits even if they only have minimal interest in basketball.
katzilla said | December 2nd 2009 @ 3:53am | Report comment
Aside from the trolls at the top of this thread I must say this is a good thing for Canberra.
I’d certainly consider going to a game.
Whether she is the worlds best? I’d Pick Candace Parker over her but then again thats a personal choice. Shes currently out of action due to Motherhood.
HOPE SHE DUNKS! How good would that be for Womens Basketball in oz? Only 2 women have done it in the WNBA.
Pippinu said | December 2nd 2009 @ 7:20am | Report comment
ROAR EDITORS
Could you please change my embarassing error from Steffie to Carrie – some sort of Freudian slip was clearly involved!
Apologies to Carrie – love your work.
Jameswm said | December 2nd 2009 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
Ryan who?
Katzilla – build a bridge – you’ve got racism wrong there. Generalising what a country’s people might do or think is not racism. Work it out.
Geez you Kiwis can be an oversensitive bunch.
katzilla said | December 4th 2009 @ 12:33am | Report comment
Ah yes it is Jameswm. Its not for you or Greg to tell me what i should be upset about.
Is it ok to go around and say that Asians are bad drivers? Thats a generalisation, is it not racist?
It is you that has racism wrong.
Racism is defined by the Subject not the user.
Jameswm said | December 3rd 2009 @ 8:20am | Report comment
Katzilla said:-
“A few Aussies i know think Green WILL win tonight”.
You gotta laugh at that one now.
katzilla said | December 4th 2009 @ 12:31am | Report comment
I did have a chuckle at that.
Freud of Football said | December 4th 2009 @ 12:53am | Report comment
Katzilla,
“If Freud isn’t talking about the guy having a ‘Hat Full’ rather then Vettori taking a hat full of wickets then the mistake is mine and i apologise to him. But my point stands regardless of intoxication or not. Many people talk up their sports stars beyond their true worth.
A few Aussies i know think Green WILL win tonight.”
- Apology accepted, Greg had the correct interpretation of that one and if we could just focus on that last sentence of yours there…
Sometimes comments don’t just come back to hurt you but they can make you look like a real git. I don’t claim to know a lot about boxing but I was one of the Aussies who thought Green WOULD win, perhaps you should just drop this one – you’ve made a fool of yourself once and not bothered interpreting Greg’s comments the way they were meant.
katzilla said | December 5th 2009 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
I don’t interpret Fof, I just read, and what he said was prejudicial.
He doesn’t have the right to make that comment therefore I bring it up and will carry on with it as long as I feel i need to.
You thinking im a Git means nothing, your entitled to that opinion.
Again like I said, Many thought Green had a good chance, but some I spoke to thought he was a shoe in.
In hindsight its easy to say ‘Told you so’ but before the fight anyone and everyone with boxing knowledge was talking ‘Green has a chance if……….’ not ‘Green will knock him out in the 1st’
There is a good reason it paid 100/1
Jameswm said | December 4th 2009 @ 8:06am | Report comment
Katzilla
Generalising about Aussies is not racist. Being Australian is not a race, it is a nationality.
Generalising about Aboriginal Australians, white Australians or Greek Australians however IS racist.
The same applies to NZ. Making a general comment about what Kiwis think is not being racist.
It’s different if you talk about Maoris or say Kiwis of German background in the South Island.
I had a laugh – I don’t really follow boxing but saw what you said, then when I saw it was a 2 min knockout the other way I couldn’t resist bringing it up!
katzilla said | December 5th 2009 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
Regardless of the group of people James the comment made was prejudiced.
I finally agree with Greg below though, its time to leave this.
Sorry your thread got side tracked Pip, I will take the blame for that.
Pippinu said | December 5th 2009 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
katz
no worries – I ended up accepting the point Greg was making as it was me who initially used the term “best in the world”, and it’s fair enough to be reminded that if you’re going to bandy around terms like that, you better have a clear idea why you are doing it.
I think we should be able to give Greg the benefit of the doubt that it was an off the cuff remark that was not intended to denigrate anyone.
IN the meant time, I note that my article still refers to the Capital coach as Steffie Graf rather than Carrie Graf!! (which remains embarassing for me)
Greg Russell said | December 4th 2009 @ 10:26am | Report comment
I read Katzilla’s latest comment to me above. I am not going to comment on it, i.e., I give him the last word in this debate. It’s Friday, and after a week of this it’s time to stop. Everyone have a good weekend, and thanks to James and Freud.