I think we should be able to give Greg the benefit of the doubt that it was an off the cuff remark that was not intended to denigrate anyone.

IN the meant time, I note that my article still refers to the Capital coach as Steffie Graf rather than Carrie Graf!! (which remains embarassing for me)

Again like I said, Many thought Green had a good chance, but some I spoke to thought he was a shoe in.
In hindsight its easy to say ‘Told you so’ but before the fight anyone and everyone with boxing knowledge was talking ‘Green has a chance if……….’ not ‘Green will knock him out in the 1st’
There is a good reason it paid 100/1

Generalising about Aussies is not racist. Being Australian is not a race, it is a nationality.

Generalising about Aboriginal Australians, white Australians or Greek Australians however IS racist.

The same applies to NZ. Making a general comment about what Kiwis think is not being racist.

It’s different if you talk about Maoris or say Kiwis of German background in the South Island.

I had a laugh – I don’t really follow boxing but saw what you said, then when I saw it was a 2 min knockout the other way I couldn’t resist bringing it up!

“If Freud isn’t talking about the guy having a ‘Hat Full’ rather then Vettori taking a hat full of wickets then the mistake is mine and i apologise to him. But my point stands regardless of intoxication or not. Many people talk up their sports stars beyond their true worth.
A few Aussies i know think Green WILL win tonight.”

- Apology accepted, Greg had the correct interpretation of that one and if we could just focus on that last sentence of yours there…

Sometimes comments don’t just come back to hurt you but they can make you look like a real git. I don’t claim to know a lot about boxing but I was one of the Aussies who thought Green WOULD win, perhaps you should just drop this one – you’ve made a fool of yourself once and not bothered interpreting Greg’s comments the way they were meant.

My comment about Green was an example of people being over confident in their sports stars. It stands, he did well and got a great punch in good on him.
But before most gave him a chance, not a ‘He will definately win’

I would write that i disagree with your opinion if you were entitled to make that assumption.
But your not.

Where does my sentence “denigrate Nelsen’s contribution” and say he did not play well and did not deserve plaudits? These are invented extrapolations. What my sentence actually does is denigrate Bahrain. Just because I urge for an achievement to be seen in the perspective of how good the opposition is, that does not mean I am denigrating that person.

As for Katzilla’s “Basically Greg you’ve made a generalisation about a race of people, usually referred to as racism”: (1) see james below (“you’ve got racism wrong there. Generalising what a country’s people might do or think is not racism”), (2) if I belittled a group of people, then it was unintentional, as already explained in a comment (presumably unread).

Finally, “Its embarassing for this Website that your a registered Columnist. And you wonder why people don’t read all of your posts?”

I do not wonder (especially in the present cases), and I am truly relieved to learn that you feel this way about what I write.

(Actually, from the present exchange it’s already very evident that you don’t actually read what I write. If you did, then you would simply have written “I disagree with your opinion about ‘reverse cultural cringe’”, and that would have been that, as opposed to inventing ghosts, e.g. racism. An irony is that the actual subject of my original comment to Pip – that LJ should not be called “the best female basketballer in the world” – is the same as a posting you yourself have made below. See, we are not so different after all. Ouch, that’s a really low – Danny Green-like? – blow, isn’t it.)

“A few Aussies i know think Green WILL win tonight”.

You gotta laugh at that one now.

Your right I really don’t know where I got that idea from – well perhaps from

“you’ll find plenty of NZers ringing up and waxing lyrical about how good Ryan Nelsen is … simply because he organized the NZ defence to, somewhat luckily, keep that great force of world football, Bahrain, goalless.”

I’d consider that a snide remake and denigrates Nelsen’s contribution

as for FoF’s contribution – reading it literally he’s based his entire argument on the fact that I misspelt Nelsen’s name … judge that how you will …

Katzilla – build a bridge – you’ve got racism wrong there. Generalising what a country’s people might do or think is not racism. Work it out.

Geez you Kiwis can be an oversensitive bunch.

Answer me this question then –
Why the need to have a dig at Kiwis during your ‘Insecurities’ post?
I know you live there, is your stay uncomfortable?
I really don’t get it, it wasn’t required to make your point, but you choose to put it in there.
And its not the first time you’ve done it.
DH is right, it is a snide comment and very much so in the Stephen Jones school of commentary.

Basically Greg you’ve made a generalisation about a race of people, usually referred to as racism (putting your own people in a same but lesser boat doesn’t make it right)
Its embarassing for this Website that your a registered Columnist.
And you wonder why people don’t read all of your posts? Its a bit hard to get past that comment.

If Freud isn’t talking about the guy having a ‘Hat Full’ rather then Vettori taking a hat full of wickets then the mistake is mine and i apologise to him. But my point stands regardless of intoxication or not. Many people talk up their sports stars beyond their true worth.
A few Aussies i know think Green WILL win tonight.

I was not trying to belittle anyone. If I did inadvertently belittle by writing “out of insecurity Australians (and even more so New Zealanders)”, then I was belittling all Australians and all NZers, which means I was belittling both myself (an Australian) and my children (who are NZers).

As for your comment: “I think that’s more the preserve of the Australians than kiwis – esp when over hyping their rugby players”

I actually agree with this about Australians and rugby players, and I feel it’s what drives a lot of the commentary at this website, i.e., Australians overestimating the abilities of Wallabies, and therefore being disappointed by results. You’ll actually find I have written a Roar article on this if you care to look.

Is it being snide and Stephen Jones-like that I can (1) sometimes agree with you, and (2) admit it? (OK, this comment is a bit snide, but I’m just trying to make a point – we should all try to be even-handed.)

99% of the things that Freud and I are accused of, we did not write. Where did Freud write that his interlocutor was drunk? (“He’d just taken a hat full” is surely referring to Daniel taking wickets). Where did I write that Nelsen did not play well in Wellington and was not deserving of plaudits? Where did I write that “talkback callers represent mainstream NZ”? (although many sociologists would argue that they do). Where did I imply that if a talkback caller says that Ryan Nelsen is best in the world, then it must be correct? (These are just some examples.)

All I actually was relating is that I had heard some (actually, quite a few) talkback callers say a particular thing about Nelsen. And then a whole lot of people jump in and basically say that it’s impossible that any talkback caller could have said what I heard (let me quote again: “I can guarantee that zero NZers … would describe Nelson in this way” – I don’t actually see any ambiguity in this claim).

The best one, though, is that a guy writes that I made an “utter utter crap comment”, and then, when I respond in a sarcastic but non-rude way (cf. what he wrote), he claims “you subscribe to the Stephen Jones school of commentary – ie write snide comments that you know will incite a rebuff”. I’m sorry, but go back to my original comment, and show me what was “snide” about it or how I was trying to “incite” anything.

Guys – rather than going ballistic when someone expresses a different opinion to your own, and then spending your time inventing untrue extrapolations to what that person has written, why not just spend a bit more time reading what actually has been written?

I quite agree that what I wrote about cultural cringe is just an opinion that I could no more provide definitive evidence for than you could provide definitive evidence against. But everything else you have written is invention.

(And I’m not sure why katzilla steadfastly chooses to ignore the leads I provided to sources.)

Could you please change my embarassing error from Steffie to Carrie – some sort of Freudian slip was clearly involved!

Apologies to Carrie – love your work.

HOPE SHE DUNKS! How good would that be for Womens Basketball in oz? Only 2 women have done it in the WNBA.

‘out of insecurity Australians (and even more so New Zealanders)’

Rubbish, how did you come to this conclusion? Is your ‘Reverse Cringe’ diagnosis in the DSM IV?

‘I reckon there’d be many NZers who genuinely believe right now that Ryan Nelsen is the best defender in world football’

Because you ‘Reckon’ therefore its true? A kiwi tells you he doesn’t agree and you ask him to provide proof? What a toss. Where is your proof that Kiwis think this way?

Freud, using a conversation with a drunk guy as proof of the frustrating arrogance of Kiwis is poor form. Like no one else in the world talks rubbish about their sports heroes when they’re drunk?
I had a conversation with a guy at the Opera bar last week who genuinely thought Australia were a chance to win the World Cup.

One of the most frustrating conversations I’ve ever had was with a Kiwi who tried to convince me that Vettori is not only the best spinner in the world but currently the best player in the world (He’d just taken a hat full so he was obviously suffering from vertigo), he produced lots of statistics and noted his prowess with the bat etc. etc. but the fact of the matter is, both Australian’s and Kiwi’s overstate how good they are, it’s some sort of complex which stems from trying to prove to the world how great we are.

I don’t know about the mood in NZ after the game but I’m sure Greg wouldn’t have made a statement, based on facts – which you both misinterpreted – if he wasn’t sure that those facts were available to him.

I’ll ignore your latest snide bit – you’re just not worth it

“I reckon there’d be many NZers who genuinely believe right now that Ryan Nelsen is the best defender in world football”

Nowhere in this do I imply “Because the press says it it means it’s true”. Nowhere in this do I imply that “esp those involved in all levels of football would describe Nelson in this way”, or that “a member of a football club here in Auckland” (or any club for that matter) would think this. I would have to be an idiot if I really believed these things. Think of me what you like, but I’m not an idiot.

As for the evidence, go to the RadioSport NZ website and download the talkback transcripts for Sunday 15 November, and you’ll find plenty of NZers ringing up and waxing lyrical about how good Ryan Nelsen is … simply because he organized the NZ defence to, somewhat luckily, keep that great force of world football, Bahrain, goalless. In my original comment I never implied that these talkback callers knew anything about football. Rather, they were just enthusiastic Kiwis getting caught up in the moment (good luck to them!), and exaggerating Nelsen’s abilities out of proportion (see my original comment on “reverse cultural cringe” – that’s all I was actually commenting on).

For written comments to this effect (waxing lyrical on Nelsen), see Tony Smith in The Press (Christchurch) in the week afterwards, I would guess either the Tuesday or Wednesday.

Now here’s what Dh wrote: “I can guarantee that zero NZers”

After he delivers me satisfactory proof that “zero NZers” ever think or thought what I claimed, I will be happy to chase up said evidence (see above) myself. For now, I have better things to do with my time.

But all that aside – it’s a massive coup for the Capitals and the Canberra community.

Incidentally, when you have finished your 4 million interviews, I’ll produce the RadioSport transcripts and Press articles that evidence my comment. Then again, I get the impression you don’t care much for evidence.

I have a bad habit of writing off the top of my head and not double checking – that’s why I appear on the right hand side of the Roar!

As a general comment – the Opals have been unbelievable for women’s sport in Australia over a 15 year period – and I know plenty follow their exploits even if they only have minimal interest in basketball.