By rugby fanatic
December 2nd 2009 @ 4:00am
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Bad Grand Slam tour? You have to be kidding
Australian Adam Ashleigh Cooper (centre) is tackled by New Zealand's Jimmy Cowan (right) and Ali Williams (left) during the Tri Nations final between the Australian Wallabies and New Zealand All Blacks at Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane, Saturday, Sept. 13, 2008. The All Blacks beat the Wallabies 28-24. AAP Image/Dave Hunt
Robbie Deans, you are a genius. I find it quite amazing how negative the Australian media can be when it wants to. To even suggest that Robbie Deans’ job was ever on the line after the grand slam tour was bad journalism.
To even suggest that the grand slam tour was a failure in any way is just plain, poor misguided journalism.
Please let’s not forget.
We just missed out on an historic grand slam BY 3 POINTS! (don’t worry Matt, not your fault, it was the media again!).
As I predicted before the Irish game on David Pocock’s column on the Roar website, he is no doubt in my opinion, the future Wallaby captain, assuming he will continue to be a great role model both on and off the field.
The media is so incredibly negative.
They were questioning Robbie Deans’ appointment as coach and all this rubbish about how disappointing we were on tour and through the Tri-Nations … I can’t read it anymore.
May I mention just 3 great highlights of this so-called failure of a tour:
1. Giteau and Cooper combination
It could even work the other way around. Let’s not forget Gits was the no.1 no.12 in the world for 3 years and Quade off both feet is lightening.
Let’s hope the selectors listen to Robbie and have the right players playing in their Wallaby positions for the Super 14 next year. The four states need to work together next year for the Wallabies’ sake and cause. After all, isn’t that why we support rugby at all levels through thick and thin – for the Wallabies?
2. The scrum.
Never been better in 10 years.
3. David Pocock.
The little nugget of gold. It’s been suggested that Pocock and Smith play a half each because it worked so well against Wales. Ridiculous. You don’t have 2 V8’s on the bench for a total of 80 minutes. You use them.
It would be a complete waste of horsepower.
Besides, Pocock needs to get a lot more experience before 2011. Mind you, it wouldn’t be a bad bragging right and psychological ploy having George Smith sitting on your bench.
So there are just 3 highlights from the tour, not to mention Ashley-Coopers’ brilliant form, the long awaited Wallaby test debut by Kurtley Beale, the priceless experience the young blokes like James O’Connor got by touring with their idols and getting valuable test match minutes playing next to them.
“It’s only a game”, we always hear. We all scoff as we know it’s not just a game – it’s the only game – the game they play in heaven for God’s sake.
Don’t read the newspapers or articles about the so-called terrible tour. The newspapers are all show bags.
Robbie Deans is a genius. He has the team just where he wants them.
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Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 6:45am | Report comment
so many positives to take out of this tour.
I think the find of the tour was Quade Cooper, playing out of position and developing a fantastic combination with Gits.
Followed closely behind by Pocock,Genia and Alexander.
Have to run but i will write more when i get to work.
Good article Rugby fanatic
Go the wallabies
fred said | December 2nd 2009 @ 7:33am | Report comment
WE HAVE GOT NO CATTLE;DEANS IS GREAT;WALLIES FOR RWC2011.GO
rugbyfanatic said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:10am | Report comment
The Roar,
Please will you correct the typo in the headline. The word is ‘kidding.’ It looks bad on the author, myself, and I can’t stand spelling errors. Pet hate. Secondly, why have you changed my original headline? It was far better than its replacement in my view but maybe I’m biased.That was the first article I have ever written when I couldn’t sleep last night. Thanking you in advance.
Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:34am | Report comment
Rugbyfanatic, wow was that really your first column???
You have created alot of interest moving forward. How could we get all these young guns playing together at Super 14 level, how good would that be to watch in 2011. Melbourne maybe??? Who is off contract???
Roy Kneebone said | December 2nd 2009 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
Pocock,Cooper,Adam Ashley Cooper,Barnes,Palu,Moore,Mortlock,and Gerrardo, theres a great mix of youth and experience
Working Class Rugger said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:52am | Report comment
They edit the headlines all the time. Don’t get to fussed over it.
pothale said | December 2nd 2009 @ 6:47am | Report comment
Missed out on a Grand Slam by 3 points? Talking about looking at the glass half-full. Impressive. Must use that one for Ireland from now on.
Barking Glider said | December 2nd 2009 @ 7:08am | Report comment
I’m sorry, but we should have flogged Scotland by 20 points to be taken seriously. On this occassion the media’s assessment is on the money.
Roy Kneebone said | December 2nd 2009 @ 4:34pm | Report comment
A good team is measured how you bounce back after a shock loss. Just like when we lost a one dayer to Kenya, the wallabies were great against Wales, just wish we didnt have to wait 6 months to the next test
Brett McKay said | December 2nd 2009 @ 7:25am | Report comment
Rugbyfan, I take your points, I really do, and I’ve almost always tried to look to the postive where ever possible. However, even I haven’t gone as far as you have here today. Yes, the tour ended on a fantastic high, and full credit to the team and Deans for turning things around so spectacularly.
But we can’t just paper over the cracks either. The Wallabies really should look to take more out of the losses than they do from the wins, because that’s where the lessons are. The London and Cardiff wins were everything we knew they could be, but Edinburgh and even Dublin were everything we hoped they wouldn’t be. Tokyo can’t be forgotten either.
Someone likened the Wallabies to France the other day, for we are nothing if not consistently inconsistent. The Wallabies are only as good as their NEXT game..
Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:24am | Report comment
Brett
You sound like a positive person.
1. Deans is the man for the job, agree???
He could have taken less risks with selection and picked more experience guys and he may well have a better coaching record.He has sacrificed this for the major prize and what he is building towards the RWC.
Imagine the likes of Pocock, Genia, Cooper and Oconnor with another 2 years super 14 and tests behind them. They will be fantastic players with experience which is so vital to win a RWC.
I am not saying we will win it but if we dont have NZ on our side of the draw we will be in the final and on the day its anyones, the kiwis may even crumble like they always do at World Cups.
rugbyfanatic said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Rodney, bang on with the RWC. Robbie will get us to the RWC final but that’s all you can do as a coach. Whoever wants it more on the day will win. As you said, any team can win on the day in a final, even Scotland as we’ve much too recently seen but you have to win 6 games to get there.
The All Blacks will be huge favourites on home soil and rightly so. I hope they keep up the negative press on the Wallabies because the odds will be too irresistable even for a Tibetan monk in India who’s taken the vow of silence, no alcohol and no gambling.
Roy Kneebone said | December 2nd 2009 @ 4:54pm | Report comment
Blacks still dont have a back up to Carter or McCaw, they lose either through injury it will make things interesting or more even haha
Ai Rui Sheng said | December 6th 2009 @ 9:35pm | Report comment
Oh yes they do!
Rockin Rod said | December 3rd 2009 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
Rugbyfanatic
I dont want to keep going on about POCOCK but you will read that with the John Eales Medal, votes will be given in 3 stages and the first stage results were announced today. Palu on top followed by Gits and then Pocock. This is over 5 games during spring tour, pocock was rested for 2 of these. This will cost him Australias biggest individual prize if Robbie keeps resting him for the easier test matches.
Brett McKay said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:41am | Report comment
Rod, I quite like what Deans is putting together, and I really enjoyed all five Tests on tour, despite the losses and draws. There’s some really good rugby starting to be played, and people are getting excited about the game again. Things are looking up for 2010, no doubt at all.
I completely agree with everything you’ve said there, my point above was just that there’s still a long way to go before the Wallabies could be considered as good as the teams ranked above them.
I am a positive person, on the whole, but even I know the 2011 RWC can’t be won in November 2009…
Rickety Knees said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:57am | Report comment
Me too Brett – the RWC is about winning a series of games in a row (8 I think) to win the RWC. The Wallabies won’t be a contender until they can consistantly win. The boom and bust cycle they are currently in cannot be papered over by the excellent win against Wales. All this euphoria is a tad premature guys – let’s see how we stand at the end of 2010 before we get too excited.
Greg Russell said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:12am | Report comment
Brett, I like the France analogy (and in this context, note that they have never been “consistent” enough to win a WC, even though they have made several finals).
In the absence of being able to given anyone else credit for this analogy, I’ll give it to you!
Brett McKay said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:37am | Report comment
Greg, I must in turn deflect credit to the ether then, becuase it certainly wasn’t my analogy. Might have been Spiro, actually, but either way, it’s pretty apt currently..
sheek said | December 2nd 2009 @ 6:39pm | Report comment
Greg/Brett,
France & NZ have both made the ‘final four’ cut 5 times out of 6. France missed 1991, NZ 2007.
Australia has made the final 4 cut 4 times out of six. We bombed out in the QFs of 1995 & 2007.
Final four appearances for other countries – England 4 times (91, 95, 03, 07); South Africa 3 times (95, 99, 07); Wales (87), Scotland (91) & Argentina (07), once each.
Ai Rui Sheng said | December 6th 2009 @ 9:41pm | Report comment
So England has choked more often than anyone, except France?
Bay35Pablo said | December 2nd 2009 @ 7:35am | Report comment
Agreed the media and naysayers were harping on too much, but by the same token I am not putting on the rose coloured glasses like you.
Plenty of work still to be done. Young team, and with more experience will only get better. However, if we expect it will just happen, we’ll end up like the Scotland game.
formeropenside said | December 2nd 2009 @ 7:51am | Report comment
First loss to Scotland in close on 30 years, a draw with a rusty Ireland, a poor quality win over England and a good win over Wales. Following up on a very poor 3N and Bledisloe performance, not great. Pretty much par for the course, a little below as far as NH tours go.
1. Cooper and Giteau should be the other way around. Giteau has been one of the world’s best 12’s in 2009; its a shame he had the 10 jumper on his back during that time. Its obvious Gits is not a top shelf test 10.
2. 10 years ago the scrum was pretty good. I agree its good now, but we are not using it to the degree we should. We should be using the scrum as an offensive weapon in its own right, and shunting teams around holding our own ball at the back.
3. When Pocock turns in a great performance in a 3N test I will start to get interested. Until then he’s a show pony.
Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:05am | Report comment
Brisbane test v SA, remeber we smacked them and who dominated the breakdown. POCOCK, didnt get the official MOM but the players gave it to him.
formeropenside said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:07am | Report comment
In my original draft I excluded the patchy SA away from their home, but could not make it read right, so I gave up. Let me rephrase: when he shines in a hard test, in a beaten team, I will be interested. He goes missing too often in those games, or is ineffective.
Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:29am | Report comment
So Ireland, best northern hemishere team in the world and beat SA last week arent a good side,please. He was MOM again against them and we didnt win the game. Look i am a huge George Smith fan, but like robbie deans said, Pocock is years ahead of george and McCaw at the same age.
Yesterday benny robinson said he is like a rock at the breakdown, no one can move him. That from a guy that has been pushing every prop around the world this year
Jumpin Jack Flash said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
right on Rod
Dave Pocock is an Australian rugby prodigy and he will be there 2011 RWC starting no.7 in the final.
He is one of the best things in Australian rugby atm
J Col said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:49am | Report comment
I’m sorry but I find it hard for people not to see Pocock as the talent he is. What a compliment to have george smith benched and rotated for him. Against wales his 40 min first half work rate and turnover at the breakdown was more than most players fit into 80 min. Agree??? No doubt for a 21 yr old he is the best in the world for his age and achievements. future captain? you bet! Expect a huge season from him at the force. Tip him to lead them a match or two.
Dean Pantio said | December 2nd 2009 @ 7:58am | Report comment
This article wins the sarcasm award on The Roar for 2009. Nice one!
Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:39am | Report comment
One point that has been left out is that so many players were playing out of position or atleast a different position they play/train at during Super 14. So should robbie deans hay a say at state level??????
I think he should.
Will Digby be playing 13 for QLD ? maybe
Will Quade be palying 12 for QLD ? no he will be 10
Will Dean mum be playing LOCK for NSW? no he will be playing 6,
Will Berrick be playing 12 for NSW not sure??
Will Drew Mitchell be playing wing for NSW no he will be 15
Will James oconnor be playing 15 at Western force, no Cam Sheppard will be
Who knows where Beale will play ?? Deans picked him on the wing, Hickey said yesterday he is too slow for wing and will play closer in
The list goes on
Big Steve said | December 2nd 2009 @ 10:51am | Report comment
What about Luke Burgess as Genia’s back up next year.
Kingi has been mentioned but he is at the reds! Behind Genia. If Genia plays as well as he has on tour you would not take him off the field. They also have Ben Lucas who covers srcum and fly half. Which gives link much more flexibility on the bench. It depends where cooper plays, he may play 12 with lucas at 10 or he may play 10 with Lucas on the bench. But I think there is a good chance Kingi will not get on the bench or if he does he wont get much game time. So Burgess will be the back up again?
Hoy said | December 2nd 2009 @ 10:57am | Report comment
Without actually having seen Kingi play, you would have to say the Reds would have Lucas as back up 10 now. They have some talent, but might not know what to do with it.
Genia
Cooper
Hynes
Turinui?
Chambers?
Ioane?
????
Who will they throw at Fullback now with McLinden out? Plus Fetoa is now retired due to his neck injury.
Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:08am | Report comment
NSW rate Holmes very highly. They went hard for him and he chose tahs over brums. I think Holmes will be wearing the number 9 jersey after round 4. If you are NSW number 1 half, you go along way to making wallabies squad
Jumpin Jack Flash said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
Kingi is a great young player, who has some real talent and given the chance could be Genia’s understudy. He will need to switch teams though to get his chance…Melbourne perhaps???
The Other Reds Fan. said | December 2nd 2009 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
Backs aren’t really the problem at the Reds. Its the forwards. We have Horwill and ….?
Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
JUST GET HOUSTON FIT, he could be anything. You dont get selected in the wallabies at 18 if you dont have what it takes.
Roy Kneebone said | December 2nd 2009 @ 4:26pm | Report comment
Jumpin Jack Flash
Robbie must see something in Kingi, but honestly if a test was played tomorrow, i think i would rather Sheehan,Valentine,Phibbs or even Oyong ahead of him. He is yet to play a S14 game and wont next year with Lucas a fine back up to Genia
Jumpin Jack Flash said | December 3rd 2009 @ 12:40am | Report comment
Roy (below)
Of course tomorrow all those woud be selected ahead of him but come 2011 I think it would b a diff story.
He played extremely well for Aust in the U20’s WC and given the chance to gain some experience in the big leagues is just what he needs
Nick_KIA said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:54pm | Report comment
I think a bigger problem if the Ws are keen on winning some games is convincing Robbie to pick players in positions they excel l at at S14 level, not the oher way around.
Stephen F. Moon said | December 2nd 2009 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
Rockin Rod, your comments are often insightful and enjoyable, but here you demonstrate your lack of rugby knowledge.
Digby will be 13 for QLD
Quade will be 10 for QLD (just like he was for the Wallabies)
Mumm lock for NSW
Barnes 12 for NSW
Mitchell on the wing with Turner/Anesi at fullback
Shepard is better than Oconnor
If Beale is an international winger I will give it up? You are joking, right?
Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
we will see Moon
Yes digby will be 13
quade will be 10, could have sworne he had 12 on his back for the 4 tests played in europe, could be wrong will go back to the tapes
Mumm only stayed at Tahs if he was given the 6 jumper, otherwise he was at brumbies before rocky signed
same for Barnes, he agreed to Tahs if he was to play 10.
Again same for Mitchell, he will be 15 with Turner and Anesi as wingers
Not bad for someone that knows nothing about rugby. You can hold me to all of this
Roy Kneebone said | December 2nd 2009 @ 4:09pm | Report comment
Rockin Rod
You are 100% right there, FACT and yes Quade played 12 the whole tour, i see you were joking there, sorry Mr Moon
Stephen F. Moon said | December 2nd 2009 @ 6:18pm | Report comment
Rockin Rod/Roy Kneebone. Its is clear you are the same person. Surely you can hold a good enough argument on your own, rather than using an alias to back up your own argument. Fair go.
Obviously Quade had 12 on his back. Thats not the point. He was playing like a 5/8 and will continue to do the same in QLD. The number on your back does not matter, as you yourself have pointed out elsewhere on this site. Barnes playing 10/12 at NSW is in the same boat. Beale/Halangahu to play alongside Barnes. Same goes for Mitchell/Turner/Anesi. Often it is beneficial for a player to play a number of positions…..
If Mumm is to play 6, who are the second rowers in NSW? When you say he signed on the proviso of playing 6, do you really think he will refuse to take the field if named in the second row?
Campo's Kid said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment
I agree with the majority of your points Fanatic.
Deans is the man for the job
Pocock will on improve for RWC (lets face it, thats what it’s all about)
Scrum – c+ for world standards (A- for oz standards)
Gits has to get out of the 5/8th spot. I find he gets lost several times throughout every game. A 5/8th primary role is to guide the team around the park and I feel he is a 7/10 here. Don’t get me wrong, I love him but I think more as a 12 or even 13. I think Barnes should be 5/8th.
You can’t help the press being negative. Beaten by Scotland, please!
I do think something has to change with the laws of rugby but thats for another time/place!
allblackfan said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:06am | Report comment
I’ll reserve judgement until I see how they handle the ABs and Boks (and even a fired up France side for that matter) next year!! (and preferably in wet weather!)
I really like the look of Pocock and Genia, however.
Beale has no future as a Test winger, however. He’s simply too slow/small
Harry said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Agree with that although the Aus record against SA is actually pretty good in recent years, as it is against France (haven’t lost to them since 06). Versus NZ 2 wins from 14 or so in the last 4 years aint so flash though!
Brett McKay said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Rockin’, for what it’s worth, I think Ioane will play 13 for Qld, Cooper 10 (Turinui will probably start at 12), Mumm will swap between 5 and 6, Barnes will end up at 10 with Halangahu 12 Mitchell 11 and Beale 15 for NSW, and O’Connor will play 12 for WA outside Pretorius. Giteau and Toomua might play the same Deans 10/12 combined game for the Brumbies..
Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 10:57am | Report comment
i agree with you 100%, but thats my point. These guys need to be playing in the position they will be at wallabies. If gits plays 10, quade needs to play 12 for Qld and berrick 12 for NSW but will never happen. Robbie sees JOC as a fullback, why have him play at 12 all year with Force. They need experience at s14 level before thrown into test matches to find their feet in those positions.
Thoughts?
Hoy said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:04am | Report comment
I believe long term Deans sees JOC at 12, however to blood him he put him in at 15. Long have I said that I don’t like playing people out of position.
I also don’t agree with a dual 10 role for the Wallabies. At the moment, we have someone playing 10, who is a far better 12. Why? It isn’t because we don’t have a spare 10. Cooper played 12 all tour, when he is clearly a 10. To what end was that selection if not to appease Giteau? The last game when he played so well was because Cooper spent most of the time at first receiver and has a pass good enough to hit Gits on the trot, in space, so he can weave his magic FROM 12, where he used to be so effective.
Brett McKay said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:35am | Report comment
Rockin’ Hoy has echoed my thoughts exactly. Deans does see O’Connor as a 12, but the best way to ease him into th international game is at 15 chiming in as required.
And when I mentioned the 10/12 combo, I just mean that the numbers are essentially irrelevant. One will play 10 on one side, and the swap on the other side of the field. It’s essentially the same as league centres no longer being ‘inside’ and ‘outside’, but rather left and right now.
Giteau plays 10 when attacking to the right, so he can pass left-to-right, and vice-versa for Cooper to the left. So rather than the NZ set-up of first and second five-eighths, we’ve got an Aus set-up of left and right five-eighths. I think it was Leftie on Monday who said letting Giteau wear 10 is just a matter of keeping the toys in the cot..
Jumpin Jack Flash said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
Put JOC at 15 at the Force, he is a young kid with a lot of talent but lacks confidence in the big games especially against NZ.
Mitchell should bite the bullet put him in 15 and watch him grow, i guarantee that by the end of the season he would have cemented his spot as the Force and Wallabies fullback.
Campbell Watts said | December 2nd 2009 @ 3:42pm | Report comment
And you’d put Shepherd’s great talent where then – wing?
Shepherd’s a much better FB than O’Connor – by a long way!
Roy Kneebone said | December 2nd 2009 @ 4:58pm | Report comment
yes shep is a way better 15, but oconnor cant play wing. Shep may have to take one for the team
Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
Flash
Mitchell will put JOC at 15 only if Sam Harris steps up at 12, which by all accounts he is doing really well. Drop 5 kg and working well outside Pretorious and Sheehan. This can also push Shep to a wing spot where the Force are a little weak.
He maybe wallabies 15, which says where to put AAC who can def be first wing picked but will be playing 15 for Brums next year with Gerrardo in Japan
Brett McKay said | December 2nd 2009 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
I’d be interested to know, Jumpin’ Jack, exactly how you could make such a guarantee?? Only if you were in fact James O’Connor himself could you suggest he’d give cementing both spots a red hot go, but even then no guarantee could be …well, guaranteed.
And if you did put O’Connor at 15 for the Force, you’d be pretty worried if he COULDN’T cement the spot by season end…
Jumpin Jack Flash said | December 3rd 2009 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
Ok guarantee is the worng word but a player who gets selected to play as the wallabies FB at 18 years old by one of the best coaches in the world isn’t a fluke, he obviously has talent and a lot which we haven’t seen yet.
I think the odds of him doing a great job for the Force as FB are pretty high. Again I THINK give him some time and confidence and he’d be a brilliant for them.
This is my opinion and you shouldn’t take everything a person writes so literally
AndyS said | December 3rd 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
So you are saying that he should just accept that he will be a fullback forever – surely provincial level is where players can learn the ropes in alternate positions? If JO’C plays 15 at both provincial and Test level, he is never going to get an opportunity elsewhere, is he? Presumably the same would apply to AAC – he is the incumbent 15 so he should play that position for the Brumbies, give up any plans to ever play 13 and the Wallabies can just pick either J’OC or AAC as fullback but never play both in the same team.
Jumpin Jack Flash said | December 4th 2009 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
Some good points there which really made me think. But there is a stark contrast between JOC and AAC.
AAC is a well built utility back who has the experience and the skills to play at virtually any back position on the park. JOC on the other hand is smaller, younger and more inexperience whose ultimate position is at FB (well thats Dean’s plan, i think, im not robbie). He needs the experience at provincial level in this position and i think it would be beneficial for him, the Force and Australian rugby to play FB for the Force.
Roy Kneebone said | December 2nd 2009 @ 4:37pm | Report comment
I think Turinui relationship with Link isnt a good one. He didnt want him 2 years ago with Tahs so i can see him wanting him now. Maybe Melbourne Storm bloke outside QC ???
Harry said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Hmm, wouldn’t be quite so gung ho but by and large I am very happy with the results and play of the tour.
Australia in 08 and 09 have been consistently inconsistent … very similar to France I think, on their day able to beat anyone (although one victory in 8 against NZ in the last 2 years says NZ are massively superior) but also very suspectible to pressure themselves, with some obvious weaknesses. Overall results equal mediocrity, but we are not without hope.
What is pleasing from the tour is the emergence of some world class players in Genia, Alexander and Pocock, development to true test class by Cooper and Ioane, Horwill and Palu found some sort of form again (after poor seasons at home) and the younger players getting some good confidence and expereince playing in the midweek games – granted these were not strong teams, but fronting up in Cardiff and Kingsholm on a cold Novmber night is a lot different to running around practice fields at Coffs Harbour, and a lot more beneficial forthe player’s development.
On the question of 10 and 12 – Aus supporters (myself included) seem to be of a majority view that our ideal pairing at 10/12 is Barnes and Giteau. I’d just point out that while great on paper the actual performances of this duo haven’t been all that great, and the Cooper/Gits combination (putting aside who has 10 and who has 12 on their back) actually performed pretty well on this tour, Gits horror kicking show in Scotland aside (and of course the odd brain explosion from Cooper, although full credit to him for greater consistency and an enourmous improvement in defence).
What Australian rugby needs in 2010 is a better and stronger showing from all four of our S14 teams. With the honourbale exceptions of the Tahs in 06 and 08 and occasionally the Western Force in the last two years, Australian teams have massively underperformed in the S14 in the last five years. Its vital that changes in 2010. Anything less than a top 2 finish by the Brumbies and a top 6 by the Tahs will be bad. I fear the Force may struggle and my team the Reds have to first of all win back respect, a single figure finish on the table (say 8th or 9th) would be a start after the horrors of the past 7 years.
Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:02am | Report comment
Gits hates playing outside Berrick as do many others.He is too predictable. Quade keeps the defence guessing which creates more space for his 12 and has a bigger pass on him. If you want to play attacking/running rugby, it must be cooper/gits combo. Keep the 10 on gits back if it makes him happy but share the role like in england and wales test.
Coopers kicking game has improved so much as mentioned in Pococks roar write up. Thats the advantage Berrick had over him before, and defence which Quade again has made enormous improvements over the last 6 months.
jeremy said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Thus continues the proud Australian tradition of never having lost a match without extenuating circumstances.
J-col said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Fanatic, well said, perspective is truly Aussie, but i like it!
Dont forget Genia’s blossom! Beale’s cap was long time coming, and his experience in mid week games was something that will accelerate his growth (expect big super 14 season), remembering these guys are 21 years and under (pocock, genia, beale, cooper, o’connor). Its frightening to imagine them in 2011 with the dust under the carpet, averaging 30 or 40 caps and brimming with confidence. 2011 is the goal and Dean’s is playing his hand like Doyle Brunson in the World Series.
Its easy to kick a dog when he’s down (Greg Growden Rugby Heaven could attest!)- just wait till that dog gets up!
Danny said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:55am | Report comment
This thread to me reflects the attitude of the old guard in the Wallabys these days – losses are acceptable “I’m pretty happy with the past two years and where we are” mentality. I see cause for optimism in the youth but were I a Wallaby supporter I certainly wouldn’t be happy with anything about my rugby in the past 5.5 years.
Flogging the 8th ranked Welsh and losing to 9th ranked Scotland? This team wasn’t 3 points away from a GS it was TWO WINS FROM FOUR GAMES away. Subtle, but very real.
Hoy said | December 2nd 2009 @ 10:05am | Report comment
To be honest, I didn’t think we had much hope going into this tour after the dismal Tri Nations, and wrote so in August:
http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/08/28/grand-slam-worries/
Now after the tour, it is even more disappointing, as we really should have won all the games, and won the Grand Slam! The team let a fairly poor Ireland team off with a draw, and then, horror of all horrors, went down to Scotland, the team we were sure to beat. I say Ireland were poor, because that was their first hit out, and they were ordinary for 70 minutes. We really should have put them away, and failed to do so. Credit to them to snatch a draw in the final minute.
So yes, I think looking back it was a poor tour results wise. We honestly were the better team in all those games played, and could have/should have won every game.
Now aside from results, what is encouraging is the coming through of some good/great young prospects.
Genia is the find of the year. He started the season as second string to Ben Lucas at the Reds. Don’t think that will happen next year, with this bloke really showing the goods from halfback on the tour.
Pocock had some great games on this tour. Sure he was a bit scratchy in the Tri Nations, but he was pretty fresh then, and thrown to the lions. This tour has really shown what he can do. Against Wales, he was everywhere for 40 minutes before dislocating his thumb. Whether or not the roundabouts goes on with Smith is another question. Whether the roundabouts with Smith is a good idea is also another question. TIme will tell. Smith also showed against Wales that he is far from a spent force.
I have long said Palu lacked the bastard needed. By jeez his Mum must have shoved a rocket up his arse recently! He was a force to be reckoned with on this tour. Barnstorming runs, massive tackles. Everything I have ever wanted from him. I hope he keeps it up, and becomes the player we all want at numer 8.
Elsom preformed quite well as captain I think. He led from the front. He is such a dogged player, you can see it everytime he takes the ball up, he just wants to go forward, to win. He will get better at captain as he settles into the role, and learns to work the refs. I think he is a good choice, and one the other players would follow.
Quade Cooper is a lot more stable for the Wallabies that he is for the Reds. I don’t know why that is, but it is a good thing for sure. I don’t know what will happen when Barnes comes back, but we have a solid player to fill in at the very least. I like his long passing, Scotland forward passes aside. His passing allows the backs to get the ball a lot wider than Giteau’s passing game. This is good.
I don’t know where to go with Gits. Everyone screamed for it all year, but surely his execution of Wales from two out showed how good he is at inside centre. Each game we say surely after last time, he won’t play 10 again, but now it must be true musn’t it? He surely can’t keep playing 10, whether Barnes is fit or not. As I said above, Cooper is a solid filler at the very least.
Horwill also picked up some form at the end of the year. I think people were tough on Horwill all year. People get up Sharpe for only being a ball carrier in midfield, then get up Horwill for being invisible. He is in the rucks people, doing the hard work everyone wants Sharpe to do. Yes, we had a problem with out lineout. I don’t know why we can’t seem to have a good scrum and a good lineout at the same time, but surely it isn’t that hard to fix. Get a lineout coach to do what Patricio has done with our scrum.
Robinson and Alexander. This pair is not given their dues. I swear Robinson should have a swag of MOM awards, yet he loses out to flashier players. Against Wales, he was running with the ball, tackling, scrummaging, rucking, everything. He was everywhere. Both he and Alexander have really done great work all year in fact. Great to see some penalties at scrum time go our way, but greater still to see our scrum become a weapon.
We still have many problems to iron out. All this promise will amount to nothing if we don’t go on with it. We must go on next year and improve and then improve on that improvement.
pothale said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:02am | Report comment
“The team let a fairly poor Ireland team off with a draw, and then, horror of all horrors, went down to Scotland, the team we were sure to beat. I say Ireland were poor, because that was their first hit out, and they were ordinary for 70 minutes. We really should have put them away, and failed to do so. Credit to them to snatch a draw in the final minute.”
Fair comment. Let’s suppose that Wallabies had beaten Ireland – let’s suppose that the 10-15 mins assault at the end had resulted in no try by O’Driscoll and Australia would have won 13-20. Would that have made things a lot better or would it have been a victory over a poor Ireland team, or would it have been ecstatic in beating the 6 Nations Champions?
Hoy said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:12am | Report comment
Good question Pot! Cracker in fact. There is no doubt the Wallabies would have come home in glory had they won the Grand Slam, but realistically it would have been paper thin glory.
I don’t think the quality of the Northern Hemisphere is as good RIGHT NOW, as it was in 1984, so whilst there would have been a lot of addulation, I think again, it could have been a bit hollow. But then perhaps it is all perception that the current is never as good as the past…
We all agree that the current Wallabies team is not a shadow on the 1984 team, so where does that leave the Home Nations? I mean that not as an attack on them, but just a realisation of what we deem great teams I suppose. But then we didn’t get the Grand Slam anyway. Could have/Should have… didn’t.
pothale said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
Hoy – you went a step further than I intended. I mean let’s suppose that Australia beat Ireland, but had still lost to Scotland and beaten Wales. That’s the context in which my earlier questions were framed in this glass-three quarter-full thread.
Hoy said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
I guess because they lost to Scotland it would possibly have been worse, as that was the one test they were not supposed to lose at all.
MarkR said | December 2nd 2009 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
Pothale – you KNOW the answer to that question. Oz would’ve been the one team to beat Ireland, something even the Boks couldn’t do, so they would’ve been better than the Boks & better than the ABs as the ABs didn’t play Ireland
Dean Pantio said | December 2nd 2009 @ 6:22pm | Report comment
How does that make sense? Better than the All Blacks because the All Blacks didn’t play Ireland?
MarkR said | December 3rd 2009 @ 8:04am | Report comment
Tongue in cheek Dean…tongue in cheek
J-col said | December 7th 2009 @ 11:03am | Report comment
The victory would have shifted momentum into Scotland game for Wallabies, so yes it was important for momentum.
Ireland 6N champs have no excuse presenting a poor team. Depth in a team does not mean your best 15, it comes from your best 30 players. Ireland obviously lack depth and the records show against Aus., Played 29: Ireland 8, Australia 19, 1 draw. Ireland being 6N champs cant live off this reputation if they cant back it with depth in their squad.
A 13-20, or a 18-20 win wouldnt matter, you take the win when its there, stats dont focus on scores, just who won. On this occasion, a draw was what Ireland played for. So in the Wallabies eyes it was a lose, Ireland a victorious draw!
ohtani's jacket said | December 2nd 2009 @ 10:51am | Report comment
I love how we went undefeated on tour for the sixth year in a row and everyone’s like “well, we still have to play the Springboks next year”, but Aussie…
pothale said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:04am | Report comment
The ABs should stroll through the 3 Nations next year – they’ll be particularly committed after losing to Ireland in June.
Harry said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Hi OJ. I love it how all these Kiwi’s are going on about how they are the best in the world when they had their arse handed to them on a plate 3 times by South Africa this year.
jeremy said | December 2nd 2009 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Harry, on current form the ABs *are* the best in the world. The Springboks were ranked the best in the world after the 3N. But the Springboks lost a bunch of tour games, and the All Blacks won a bunch of tour games, and the IRB rankings changed.
I think that it’s clear, comparing the performances of the ABs and the Springboks against France, that the ABs are well ahead of the Boks – AT THE MOMENT. Doesn’t mean the Boks won’t come back and trample NZ into the mud next year.
Cattledog said | December 2nd 2009 @ 5:43pm | Report comment
Since the early 90s, the ABs have been the best team in world between world cups, no question.
jeremy said | December 4th 2009 @ 11:36am | Report comment
see http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/multimedia/all-blacks-tour-wrap
“…the All Blacks, over this time, have won over 74% of their test matches…which is better, by a considerable margin, than any other national team playing rugby, and in fact is better than any other team who play in a professional league. Which is a marvellous achievement for the All Blacks – to be the number 1 achieving team in international sport.”
ohtani's jacket said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
I think you missed the point there buddy.
Dean Pantio said | December 2nd 2009 @ 6:25pm | Report comment
True – how those Kiwis must be feeling after being beaten 3-0 by a national team that then went on to lose against Leicester and Saracens. The humiliation must be unbearable!
Ziontrain said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:03am | Report comment
If the AB’s had had that tour it would have been nothing short of a disaster yet the Wallabies find it a successs….bizzarre…different standards for different teams.
Hoy said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:20am | Report comment
Not everyone finds it a success… Some of us still have high standards.
Hoy said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:20am | Report comment
That aren’t being met often enough.
katzilla said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
Way to stay realistic Hoy. It will serve you in good stead when the next tragedy unfolds.
Im all for optimism but this is a bit OTT.
Win the 3N then start the positive train rolling.
pothale said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Look at it this way – if the Boks had had the Aussies tour they would have been ecstatic.
Rusty said | December 2nd 2009 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
it would have been hard to get worse! that said I dont think the Wallaby tour was that sucessful either. Granted they have finished well which gives a nice glow of promise for the next year but I would say its too early to be getting excited yet. Lets wait until the Bledisloe and Tri Nations are finished in 2010 before making any conclusions of the latest world beaters. The only team that looked to have set a constant upward curve after a dissapointing tri nations were the ABs and like usual, especially for the Wallabies they will be the marker
Jumpin Jack Flash said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
Great article especially for an amateur, someone give this writer a job!
Some great points which I agree with, some points which i disagree but its creating a stir amongst the comments and i love it
Good job, looking forward to a future article
Sam Taulelei said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
In all the reaction following the Welsh game one aspect of the Wallabies performances on tour that is a standout is their defence. They only conceded one try to Ireland and shut out England, Scotland and Wales. I’d still hesitate in labelling them the best defensive team in world rugby as one AAP article laid claim to. The All Blacks were the most miserly defence all year and not just on the November tour.
The goal and catchcry for the Wallabies and all Australian teams next year should be – Consistency. Being excited about future prospects is an all too familiar headline in Australian rugby but rarely do they actually deliver in the present.
pothale said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:22am | Report comment
Two tries to Ireland actually, and lucky not to concede a third.
mudskipper said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
Well said Rugby Fanatic… plenty of strong points about this tour… Only lost by three points. Scored more point for than against… Wallabies can enjoy some time of before a promising Australian start to the S14 series…
anopinion said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
Dear Rugby Fanatic,
Two points for you.
1.” After all, isn’t that why we support rugby at all levels through thick and thin – for the Wallabies?” No. The Wallabies are the representatives of all rugby in Australia, they exist because thousands of people play rugby not the other way around. We support rugby for ourselves and for others in our communities so we may experience fun, fitness, mateship.
2. I would have added to your excellent article a mention of the environment created by Robbie Deans that has allowed young players to become integral members of the team. Playing with confidence and adopting roles that show leadership qualities.
Australia are showing the depth (over used word) that is required to win consistently. The following list show the multiple players that can fill the position at an international standard if required, if available, if uninjured.
1. Cowan, Alexander, Dunning
2.Polota-nau, Moore
3. Robinson, Kepu
4. Sharpe, Horwill, Vickermann
5. Chisolm, Mumm, Harrison
6. Elsom
7. Smith, Pocock
8. Palu, Hoiles
9. Genia
10. Giteau, Barnes, Cooper
11. Mitchell, Ioane, AAC, Hynes
12.Barnes, Cooper, Giteau, O’Connor, Horne
13. Mortlock, Ioane, AAC
14. Mitchell, Ioane, AAC, Hynes
15. AAC. O’Connor
formeropenside said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
1. Cowan (not proven), Alexander, Dunning
2.Polota-nau, Moore
3. Robinson, Kepu (not proven)
4. Sharpe, Horwill, Vickermann
5. Chisolm (not proven) , Mumm, Harrison
6. Elsom
7. Smith, Pocock
8. Palu, Hoiles (not proven)
9. Genia
10. Giteau, Barnes, Cooper
11. Mitchell, Ioane, AAC, Hynes
12.Barnes, Cooper, Giteau, O’Connor (not proven), Horne
13. Mortlock, Ioane, AAC
14. Mitchell, Ioane, AAC, Hynes
15. AAC. O’Connor (not proven)
The ranks are a bit thinner than you suggest, I believe.
Rockin Rod said | December 2nd 2009 @ 3:50pm | Report comment
8. Brown, ????but watch NSW back up to PALU, his name is Lachy McCaffrey only 19,and he is a freak, rated amonst the highest by a Mr Foley who is the best judge of a forward in the country.
anopinion said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:25pm | Report comment
Brown has proven he is not up to it.
Jumpin Jack Flash said | December 3rd 2009 @ 12:35am | Report comment
I’ve seen McCaffrey play for Eastwood, defs a freak and future wallaby.
Wasn’t he rookie of the year for NSW rugby?
Roy Kneebone said | December 2nd 2009 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
Fitzpatrick,McCaffrey and McCallman ( in 2 years ) all wallabies
Justin said | December 2nd 2009 @ 4:44pm | Report comment
Mumm hasnt proven much either.
Roy Kneebone said | December 2nd 2009 @ 5:00pm | Report comment
Gerrardo will be back for RWC
anopinion said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:08pm | Report comment
Accept your argument re these guys with the exception of Hoiles, whom I believe to be one of the best forwards in the country (proven time and again).
I also believe Cowan has proven at Super 14 level to be very good and has much room to improve.
Kepu scrummed very well when he came on during the four nations. The coach of the Wallabies believes O’Connor has it.
It is no fluke that once Chisolm came into the Wallabies our scrum has improved.
JezNez said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
1&3 Your front rowers are the wrong way around
4&5 is Vickerman coming back? Please tell me that Sharpe and Harrison aren’t in the mix.
No back ups for 6&8.
There are some good starting points with the other guys names in the pack but we still need to fix the lineout as Wales didn’t test us there. Also the breakdown which is suddenly being lauded is still off the pace. Biggest test on the tour in the ruck/maul department was the AB’s in Tokyo and they monstered us, again.
anopinion said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:16pm | Report comment
I did know I got them backwards, I also did not consider, 4 and 5 as different or 11 and 14. My apologies just being generic. Alexander is actually a loose head recently converted. Dunning should have been on the tight side also even though he plays both.
Vickerman will be back before the WC (my opinion), Sharpe will be in the mix. Lets see how Harrison goes, with the shortage of tall timber we have who knows. If I was coach I would look at his form.
warrenexpatinnz said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
Pleasing to read an upbeat article with suprisingly a lot of positive comments for the Wallabies.
Looking forward to watching this young side develop further and pushing some of the older bods that much more harder to retain their position and realisticaly there are now players challenging for the same position where as in years past some were held only because there was no suitable replacement.
An area that stood out for me in the Welsh game was the linking play which has been so absent this year which indicates to me a better combinational awareness between players and a better confidence in the bloke alongside as shown in the defence record.
Starting to get a sly smile on my face.
Campbell Watts said | December 2nd 2009 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
Hello!!
Reality Check!!! 3 wins and a draw from 11 tests, since the start of the 3N is not something too many sides would be proud of.
Fiji or Italy maybe
anopinion said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:21pm | Report comment
If you watched the Wallabies play this year, you will see they have provided more than a few glimpses of their potential. With a few more games and some more settled combinations they may be a great side. Results are not the only way to mark progress. I believe they will be great for a number of years to come. Please note over the next two or three years we will be seeing a few new names pressing for positions in the squad and very few retirements, thus a better team.
brad said | December 2nd 2009 @ 5:43pm | Report comment
Unfortunatley for Australia they have had to play the Boks and Blacks more often than most. If the Irish were in the tri nations they would have had just as bad a record. deans has done wonders for the Aus scrum. Next Phase is to get some Mongrel in the pack, Perhaps he is working on getting Vickerman. Aus now have a decent srcumhalf as well. Alot of the Wallaby problems are actually in the backs where they are just too small at international level. When Barnes gets back he will add better stability. Australia also needs to brace the kicking boring game as well. Running the ball in test rugby is suicide look at what happened to the French.
Nashi said | December 2nd 2009 @ 6:14pm | Report comment
I thought I was an optimist, then I read this article.
Lets be brutally honest, we are deluding ourselves if we think that one good performance against Wales indicates a side that has changed. Look back to Brisbane and what followed in Wellington. Sure the Wallabies have demonstrated that on their day there is enough talent in the squad to be world beaters. The fact remains we are still taking it one match at a time, we have yet to build momentum beyond 80 minutes. If we were playing the ABs next week would we all be so positive? I think not!
Our bogeymen are the ABs, we still have to beat them, if we can’t everything in this column is bunk!
Granted we have solved a few problems in the scrum, half back and have back up at 10/12. Beyond that there was little to instill overwhelming confidence. Pocock was great but as others have said he is still not the link man that Richie is. Palu has pulled his finger out but NZ have thrown us a big up yours and brought out Reid, who ran onto the ball with intent from metres back.
Man for man there are few Wallabies I would choose over their AB counterpart. I think our front row looks strong, our second row weak and our back row shaded just by their AB equivalents. Half is lineball, 10 is a no contest, sadly not in our favour, 12 maybe if Gits gets a reality check and swaps a 0 for 2. 13, well Smith is a bloody fine and intelligent player, Digby still has his L plates on. Wings, Corey Jane is a revelation and Sivi is the best line breaker in the game. Our offerings are slight and fallible. Then we come to 15, Mils has re-discovered his mojo, but AAC can get there if he involves himself more.
As has often been said you need 5 or 6 world class players to win a world cup. We would be lucky to have that number in an ANZAC side.
Many have drawn comparisons between the AB v France and the Ws v Wales. As much as I enjoyed the Ws defeating Wales comprehensively it distrurbed me greatly when the pedal was off the metal in the first 20 minutes of the 2nd half. This simply did not happen in the ABs game. France were put to the sword, an utterly demoralising defeat. While AUS had the game in hand and were not prepared to lose, the ABs just kept playing and let the scoreboard take care of itself. This is what is still missing. If you are winning for God’s sake DO NOT CHANGE ONE BLOODY THING!
Next year may prove the difference. I wish I had confidence that the Wallaby players were going to improve when they were back at S14 level. I just don’t feel it in my bones. That leaves Robbie with lots of training sessions to improve skills and develop combinations. What we do not have is the capacity to develop our big match skills, that indefinable component that the Wallabies of 10 years ago had in spades. I would love to hear that the Wallabies put on 10 charity matches while in camp where they did nothing but play 80 minutes after 80 minutes after 80 minutes. Even if half the team were out injured for the next test, those left standing would be a tough bunch of bastards!
However I am an optimist, I still believe we can play beyond our means, I will be there for every game come hell or high water, spewing invective, cajoling the team and jumping for joy in victory or kicking the cat in defeat. There’s a lot to be said for optimism…… and self delusion.
J-col said | December 2nd 2009 @ 6:14pm | Report comment
Another point which is a credit to the Wallabies and coaches was “DEFENCE”.
English didnt cross the line.
Ireland got through twice.
Scotland didnt cross the line.
Wales didnt cross the line.
Now argue all you like that we drew and lost one of these games, but this level of defence has become consistent with the Wallabies and also credited with the Waratahs in 2009 as well.
Attack let us down in Scotland and Ireland, but otherwise, defence has been a key competency for the Wallabies.
(it could also be that Northern Hempisphere teams are poor attacking teams-personally cant stand penalty kicks)
Building toward the future, its good to pride themselves on important foundations like these.
pothale said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
How do you mean “attack let you down in…. Ireland, but otherwise, defence has been a key competency for the Wallabies?
As you pointed out directly before that, Ireland crossed your line twice. Lack of defence is why you drew with Ireland, who were unlucky not to get a third when Bowe was held up in the last ten minutes.
Attack was defintely lacking in the Scotland game, but was there in abundance in the game against the Welsh who were clueless, and missing too many of their first XV (albeit that’s Gatland’s problem, not Australia’s).
The one good team that Australia came up against in Ireland were rusty, and their subsequent games against Fiji and South Africa showed a lot more commitment and savvy on their part – weather allowing – it would be interesting to see how they do on a dry, unfoggy pitch. Both teams have work to do. And similar objectives – they have to be able to beat the All Blacks next year.
Something tells me they’ll arrive down South next year with a full squad ready to play – long season or not. It’ll be the reverse of this Autumn – they’ll have been playing the Six Nations and will be relatively match-ready – although the 6N finishes at end of March, and they have to finish out Magners and European Cup through to May. Pity they couldn’t organise some club games in advance of the tests and make it more than a three test tour.
J-col said | December 7th 2009 @ 10:35am | Report comment
4 test matches (playing AWAY), 2 tries conceded not bad. Also indicates one of two things, either Wallabies defence is solid, or perhaps just northern hemisphere teams cant score tries, relying on penalty kicks and drop goals. Boring rugby from a fans perspective.
Blind freddy said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:10pm | Report comment
There is some viewing through rose coloured glasses going on here. It was an OK tour at best, some good things came out of it. We need to remember the opposition wasn’t the best (No ABs or boks). To be suggesting a Reds backline including Cooper and Ioane for Wallabies is laughable. their performances in S14 and on this tour were ordinary at best. Deans performance must come into question, his selections are often rubbish (eg Burgess shouldn’t even be in the squad) The players all need to know they can trust each other and this seems from afar to not be the case.
It is good to have some younger players coming through but world cups are won by players with experience and confidence. We have a long way to go. Hopefully the S14 in 2010 will sort things out with some injured players back and new combinations on display. We also need to rediscover an Australian strength, creative backline play and get back to scoring lots of tries.
We also desperately need another world class lock (Mumm and Kimlin if fit look promising) and a credible halfback alternative for backup for Genia ( he and Pocock the highlights of this tour though both need further development)
I do agree that the press ( ie Greg Crowden) has been unduly negative and the campaigns against some players uncalled for. Leaving aside a poor kicking display against Scotland, Giteau excelled at 10 especially in the circumstances of having an inexperienced and sometimes flaky 12 outside him.
keeper11 said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:39pm | Report comment
This gist of your piece is the australian media was unduly negative re the Wallabies campaign overall while ignoring any positives…no Grand slam but they did have some good results infornt of packed stadiums….
Coincidentally..football seems to get the same treatment…Socceroos qualified for the WC in a relative canter yet receives relentless criticism and negativity……
..and which is the ..ahem ‘international ‘ sport in austrlaia that seems to always avoid such negativety or scrutiny?
Oh yes..the self proclaimed greatest game of all ‘..which just completed yet another utterly underwhelming 4 nations something meaningless tournament …in half empty stadiums with the usual predicatable result …
but ofcourse the conclusion was..’tournament a success ‘ and ‘hail our world champions’ ..
had the Kangaoos lost two matches then it would be hailed as ‘great result for international league’
maybe rugby and football could learn something from a provincial sport devoid of any insight or self-critisicm..
Short-Blind. said | December 2nd 2009 @ 10:04pm | Report comment
Hey Roy Knees – speaking of young guns who will be Wallabies in the next two years – I saw some of the OZ schoolboy final games this year and the QLD 1 side (that won the tournament) had a 16 or 17 year old big blond unit playing 6 or 7 who absolutely creamed ‘em. Unbelievable size and skills and most importantly – had lots of DOG and fight in him. Do you know who he is and have the reds sized him up yet? Probably end up at the Force or Melbourne unless McCall’s new team get their act together. cheers
Cattledog said | December 3rd 2009 @ 2:15am | Report comment
SB, he could well have an academy or even a Super contract if he’s that good. He would have no doubt come through the NTS system and has been ‘identified’. Incidently, the 2006 and 2007 QLD Schoolboys who beat their NSW counterparts and the subsequent Aust Schoolboys (many QLD’ers) who beat all before them and the Aust A Schoolboys who came close to beating England and NZ are starting to come through in numbers now. Bit early to start talking about 2009 guys as there’s a huge difference between running riot against boys as opposed to men! Many found that out the hard way!
Incidently this crap about them being any good they would have a NRL contract as outlined below by brad is rubbish. Many of these young guys have knocked back contracts to remain in QLD and that’s why I see in a couple of years QLD will be well placed to return to being a force in Australian rugby. As it is, it has been mostly QLD’ers who have been the current ‘Force’!!
brad said | December 2nd 2009 @ 10:27pm | Report comment
if he’s any good he already has an NRL contract. No proffesional Domestic league in Australia will leave him with very little Union options unless he heads over to Italy or France
Short-Blind. said | December 3rd 2009 @ 6:17am | Report comment
Thanks for that CDog – I’m not up with the youth development program in QLD but am glad to know the talent is still coming through and augers well for the Reds in the next 3-4 years. I think the ‘new regime’ put in place by the QRU will make a difference to the culture at the reds. I still have my old koala Q maroon jersey and anticipate wearing it with pride again shortly – especially at the SFS vs the Tahs. go the reds.
Brad – I hear what you are saying – the league scouts are everywhere, but get it through your head – some kids just love the game of rugby more. I converted after 15 years of league and would never go back. The comradeship and social aspects of Rugby far outweigh what is available in League. I once remember a game on the south coast vs Batemans Bay – they won the game and beat the crap out of us – then plied us with beer, bangers and stories for the next 5 hours. 2 of them (who were cops) then gave us a police escort north for about 100km to ensure we did not get pulled over! It was the late 70’s when everyone did it. That would never happen in League because you hate the oppo – even after the game.
Roy Kneebone said | December 3rd 2009 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
SB, not too sure with individual aussie schoolboys coming through, what i do know is that more than half are from Qld and that the Under 20s had most representation from QLD. This shows how great their programme is and has been for years. What they need to do is learn how to hold onto them and fight off rival states. Oconnor, Pocock etc. Now with Melb, who knows.
I heard a rumour that a younger Pocock has already signed with the Force ?????
conrad Rines said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
2011 world cup wallabies
a little different but will go very well i think!
1. alexander
2. polota nau
3 robinson
4 hand
5 vickerman
6 elsom
7 smith
8 palu
9 holmes
10 barnes
11 turner
12 mortlock/horne
13 ioane
14 morahan
15 shepard
* would consider cooper or oconner for a utility bench spot along with either horne or mortlock
* hand is a late bloomer with a wealth of experience and and is considered by micheal foley as a top lineout general.
thoughts?