By Davo -
December 2nd 2009 @ 4:17am
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The science of throwing rugby forward passes
Whether you are a follower of rugby or rugby league, what you may be surprised to learn is that the least understood law in either game is the forward pass.
In both codes, the key component of the law is that when a player throws the ball, it must not be thrown in the direction of the opponents’ goal line.
Seems simple, doesn’t it?
Well, not really.
There’s actually a lot more to it than meets the eye, as Quade Cooper learned in the recent union test match against Scotland.
The key thing to understand is that it is the motion of the ball out of the hand which is all important , nothing else should be taken into account.
Why is that? Well, here’s a crash course in relativity for the uninitiated.
Think of yourself and a mate travelling in a car on the highway at 100km/hr in the two front seats. Your mate in the drivers seat throws you a packet of gum.
To do this, because you are directly alongside him, he simply tosses it sideways. Despite the fact that you are moving at 100km/hr, the gum does NOT fly backwards at 100km/hr and hit the back seat.
Why? Relativity. You are both moving forward at the same rate, so the throw is sideways.
Imagine now, you are a hitchhiker watching this from the side of the road.
As the car drives by you, the actual movement of the packet of gum is forward (alongside with everything else in the car) at 100km/hr. If you were measuring it along the ground, it may have travelled as much as 20 metres forwards despite the fact that it was thrown out of the hand sideways.
This is a crucial point that applies in rugby as well.
If a player is sprinting forwards and throws the ball sideways (or even backwards) out of hand, the ball will still end up travelling forwards if compared to the ground no matter what. And that is why the law must be judged according how the ball leaves the hand, not it’s path against the ground.
Watching on TV, not many people would have pulled up Quade Cooper’s pass as forward.
That’s because it was in fact fine. It came out of the hand sideways. His only mistake (if you can call it that) is that he was moving forwards too fast. Which is exactly what we want a player to be doing!
This is also why Northern Hemisphere punters who watch the Super 14 always say it is full of forward passes. It is simply that we play the game at pace in comparison to their leagues.
Need more convincing?
Watch this referees training video made which demonstrates the concept much better than a simple write up can do.
It’s not rocket science, people. But it is relativity!
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(27)
mitzter said | December 2nd 2009 @ 6:49am | Report comment
I understand what you are saying and this has been taken into account for quite a while now but many forward passes are NOT from this situation. The Quade Cooper was NOT he was running sideways. And many more are from a standing still 5/8 to forward runners. Again your reasoning doesn’t take into account these (which are often let go and dare i say, the reason northern hemisphere watchers may make that point). The 5/8 forward pass, perfected by carlos spencer and readily taken up by australian teams
Joh4Canberra said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:19am | Report comment
“In both codes, the key component of the law is that when a player throws the ball, it must not be thrown in the direction of the opponents’ goal line.”
In rugby union at least (I’ve never read the laws of rugby league) the forward pass is actually defined in relation to your opponents’ DEAD BALL line (and not the goal line as you suggested). The reason for this is simple: it accounts for passes in your opponents’ in-goal area. After you have crossed your opponents’ goal line it is still possible to throw a forward pass (i.e. a pass in the direction of your opponents’ dead ball line).
Corey said | December 3rd 2009 @ 1:24am | Report comment
Same in league, but I understand Davo. In RL the commentators always make this statement when a forward pass is ruled.
Joh4Canberra said | December 4th 2009 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
I understood what Davo meant as well
I wasn’t trying to be difficult for the sake of being difficult. I just wanted to point out that a definition of a forward pass in relation to the goal line doesn’t allow for a forward pass in your opponents’ in-goal area (which is a real possibility).
And yes I too have heard RL commentators (Ray Warren?) defining the forward pass in relation to the opponents’ goal line. I wonder if they’ve ever thought about the possibility of throwing a forward pass once you’re already over your opponents’ goal line?
Brett McKay said | December 2nd 2009 @ 8:30am | Report comment
I thought in Cooper’s case, it looked bad because he was tackled or stopped as he threw it sideways, which gave the illusion that it was a mile forward. I might be wrong though, Rugbyfan’s article today about the Almost Grand Slam has helped me forget about the Scotland game…
Sam said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Yeah this article has it all wrong. In rugby union the ball cannot travel towards the opponents goal-line. Momentum is not taken into account – so unlike you say, the motion of the ball coming out of the hand is not the criteria used to determine forward or not. I hear people say talk about the momentum rule in rugby union but it is a myth – not so sure about league though.
Jameswm said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:58am | Report comment
Sam you are 100% wrong on that.
The direction that the ball leaves the passer’s hands is all that is important. If it is sideways or backwards it is OK, if it leaves the hands towards the opponent’s dead-ball line it is not.
What happens after it leaves the hands is irrelevant.
Brett McKay said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:45am | Report comment
spot on James, in fact the NRL (at least) changed their interpretation of a forward pass years ago to that of Rugby’s, so that the main consideration was the direction of the ball from the hands…
Darwin hammer said | December 2nd 2009 @ 11:57am | Report comment
So Cooper didn’t throw a forward pass (despite the evidence of the where the ball was let go and received in respect to the 5 metre line) … yet according to most Australian commentators and fans McCaw in Hong Kong last year most definitely was the recipient of a forward pass – interesting – it is all relative after all
Brett McKay said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
and Darwin, even Cooper’s pass hasn’t been seen as THE reason the Wallabies lost to Scotland…
Darwin hammer said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
Yes – it is strange – but also the poor option taking has been glossed over as well … the miracle pass verses the sure thing … esp given Mitchell positioning to receive it was poor … if that try had been scored – then it’s a fair guess to say the floodgates would have opened … and Wallaby supporters – would be bemoaning the Irish result only
Redb said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
In terms of science in sport.
The AFL is developing with Sherrin a microchip that will be inserted into the ball to track movement.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-leads-way-with-new-tracking-technology/story-e6frf9jf-1225805934930
Most of the technology is for training aids but its uses can apply to other areas within the game I think like whether the ball travels between the posts, etc. Heaps of possibilities.
However, it strikes me that if if a rugby ball had the microchip and each player also had a microchip on their jersey they could track the forward movement of the ball on a grid set-up which a video ref would monitor.
Redb
Pippinu said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
Maybe put microchips in the brains of some players?
rugbyguy said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
the key thing is that when the ball is released the pass is not directed forward, the actaul definition by law is not all that important, Referees take into account the relative motion of the player who threw the pass so thats what matters.
All those people out htere who complain about these kind of things should get over it, same with the breakdown, its only illegal if the ref says it is, player like McCaw, george smith, schalk burger all push the laws until the ref steps in, the thing that makes them so good is that once they get penalised for skirting the rules they stop it. Yes it is cheating but thats how rugby is these days, the rules have changed so much every ref has their own interpretation of some of the more complex laws and the best players will take advantage.
We saw the Italian scrum destroy the All Blacks a few weeks ago, on replaying the match it became quite clear the Italian prop was using every trick in the book, driving in, up and even binding with his arm around the the neck of one af the All Blacks front row, Nemiaa Tialata was eventually sent off because the All Black scrum was such a mess!
After the match the IRB chief of referees Paddy O’Brian officially apoligised for the referees mistake in blaming the all black and not spotting the italians dirty tricks. The thing is the italian prop was only doing his job, doing everything he could to disrupt the All Black scrum, pushing the boundaries of what he could get away with, had the ref penalised him early im sure the srucm would have settled down but instead the ref missed everything and the Italian grew more bold as the match progressed, getting sidetracked here, point is until we have robots for refs that control each game identically then players will push the laws in search of any edge over the competition.
LeftArmSpinner said | December 2nd 2009 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
DAvo, more people should read this article. well explained.
anopinion said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
If I hold the ball out in front and flick it sideways or backwards to a player who is in front of me, what should the ruling be by law? If I do not release the ball but rather hand it off to a player in front of me is it a penalty against me?
Brett McKay said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:25pm | Report comment
Anopinion, I’d imagine it’d be a penalty for offside if you just hand off, and in your first question by law it would either be a scrum (forward pass) or penalty (offside or deliberate forward pass), depending on what mood the ref’s in on the day…
aubgraham said | December 2nd 2009 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
OK, I’m confused.
Rugby Union:
From the http://www.irblaws.com/downloads/EN/irb_law_book_2009_en.pdf （I believe these are the official rules but if someone has a different link I would love to see it).
DEFINITION: THROW FORWARD
A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.
No mention of the pass relative to the player. Can anybody direct me to some official IRB document that explains otherwise. I would check out the video but I can’t acces Youtube.
Rugby League
From http://www.rlef.eu.com/images/pdfs/rugby_laws_book2004.pdf (again, I’m not sure these are the official international rules of the game)
SECTION 2
GLOSSARY
FORWARD PASS is a throw towards the opponents’ dead ball line (see Section 10).
SECTION 10
KNOCK-ON AND FORWARD PASS
Notes
Direction of Pass 1. The direction of a pass is relative to the player making it and not to the actual path relative to the ground. A player running towards his opponents’ goal line may throw the ball towards a colleague who is behind him but because of the thrower’s own momentum the ball travels forward relative to the ground. This is not a forward pass as the thrower has not passed the ball forward in relation to himself. This is particularly noticeable when a running player makes a high, lobbed pass.
So this is just a matter of poor English, since the glossary and the notes are inconsistent. But it seems clear enough that the pass is relative to the player. This would be ruled at the instant he releases and not when the receiver catches it I assume but that is not clear. This last point is important since when a fast running player is stopped dead in his tracks momentarily after passing a high floating ball he will often be behind the receiver when he catches it.
Joh4Canberra said | December 4th 2009 @ 8:29am | Report comment
aubgraham: what you have cited is the current wording of the RU law on a forward pass. You may be interested to know that the IRB now has an online interactive version of the laws at http://www.irblaws.com which should always be up to date.
Clarificatory rulings of the RU forward pass law are not necessary if you understand terse, well-drafted legal English. If you consider the wording of the rugby union laws you will see that it defines the forward pass in relation to the player and not the ground. “Forward” modifies the VERB “to throw”. So under this definition the relevant question is “Did the player THROW the ball in the direction of the opponents’ dead ball line?” and NOT “after the player threw the ball did it TRAVEL in the direction of the opponents’ dead ball line?”. The test is the direction of the throw (i.e. relative to the player) and not the direction the ball travelled after it was thrown (i.e. relative to the ground).
Cattledog said | December 2nd 2009 @ 3:07pm | Report comment
Davo, what you say is correct and yep, what Sam said is 100% wrong. Problem is, Cooper threw a forward pass as detailed in the law book. Forward momentum, on this occasion, had nothing to do with it!
Hard to believe as it might be, referees at that level are very aware of the laws of relativity.
Billo said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:06pm | Report comment
A well written article on a subject that causes a great deal of confusion.
aubgraham is right to point out the wording of the rule in rugby, which carries no additional amplification in the laws of the game, unlike in league.
The key thing, though, is the wording: “A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.”
The rule refers to the direction in which the player throws the ball, not to the direction in which the ball travels. Therefore Davo has it right in his interpretation, but the confusion arises quite often because TV commentators don’t know this law of the game very well, and they will call a pass forward when, technically, it may have travelled forward despite being thrown backwards relative to the players giving and taking the pass. I’ve seen a lot of passes like this pulled up as forward passes, and others, which are genuinely forward according to the laws of the game, are not spotted by the referee.
I wonder whether there is some scope for a rule amendment in this case.
Let’s make the criterion for a forward pass dependent on the relative positions of the passer and the recipient of the ball.
If the recipient is standing behind the passer at the time the ball is passed, let’s make the pass legal, whether it travels forward or not.
It would take some thinking through, but I think this law change could have a significant impact on the way rugby is played, and for the better, in my view.
Cattledog said | December 2nd 2009 @ 9:31pm | Report comment
What if he’s level with the person passing the ball ie. the ‘flat’ pass?
aubgraham said | December 3rd 2009 @ 2:55am | Report comment
Cattledog raises a fair point. I think a better wording (and this is not my own idea but something I read elsewhere) and that is
“A pass is not forward if it is moving to the dead ball line at a slower speed than the player who passed it at the time of the pass”
It’s funny how the concept of a forward pass relative to the ground is the easiest to explain and codify but not a functional rule for playing the modern game, whilst the concept of a forward pass relative to the player is essential for the modern game but difficult to codify.
Short-Blind. said | December 2nd 2009 @ 10:17pm | Report comment
The thing missing in this discussion is how the interpretation differs so much between Union and League. In the NRL the tiniest hint of a forward pass is pulled up by all referees most of the timel. In Union at Test and especially at S14 level heaps of forward passes are let go by the refs and their mates the linesmen – even really obvious ones (Barnes NZ WC Semi etc). Yes it appears that recently (NH tour) their has been a bit of a crackdown by union refs in this area however I suspect this will go away when ‘next weeks’ brief by Paddy is given out. Given the similarity of the rule in each code I just dont get this or the reason union refs are more lax on this part of the game. Is it just me or is this last rum and milk going to my head?
Joh4Canberra said | December 4th 2009 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
Good point Short Blind. I agree with you that although the definition of a forward pass is essentially the same in both games, the application of the law seems to be different. RU refs (and I am one) would appear to be a bit lax on the forward pass law. But I have also noticed a difference with the application of the knock-on law. I often see things wrongly called a knock-on in RL. In my view RL refs are overzealous in applying the knock-on law. Balls that are knocked straight down (i.e. neither forwards nor backwards) or even slightly backwards are typically ruled as knock-ons in RL.
rugbyguy said | December 3rd 2009 @ 6:00am | Report comment
making the rule relative to the players position doesn’t work because what if a player is behind me and i throw the ball high and well forward for him to run on to, it would be ok so long as the player was on side just like a kick.
Again i say that the actual rule is less important than the interpretation by the referee, consistancy would be nice but refs are people not robots
Jameswm said | December 4th 2009 @ 8:46am | Report comment
Guys I’ve also done referees’ courses – well, actually a coaching course where there was a refereeing component – and I can assure you that this is also how the refs are taught, that is, all that matters is the direction the ball leaves the player’s hands.
And it’s not that complicated either, or hard to see. You can usually tell when the pass elaves the hands in a forward direction.