By Doug Conway
December 3rd 2009 @ 3:34am
Crawford Report compared to White Australia policy
Olympics chief John Coates has fired a controversial salvo in the battle over sports funding by comparing a list of so-called “national ethos” sports to the White Australia policy.
Coates took a further shot at the Crawford report, which has highlighted a funding bias in favour of Olympic sports and suggested more money should go to mass participation sports which typify the Australian psyche, such as netball, cricket, tennis, golf, the various football codes and surfing.
“To say that some sports are part of the national ethos and some are not is almost going back to the White Australia days,” the Australian Olympic Committee president told reporters on Wednesday.
“We have got sports that are evolving and are of interest to our new population, particularly those coming from Asia who are very keen on sports such as table tennis and badminton.
“They should have that opportunity,” he said after chairing a meeting that included Olympians Robert de Castella and Chris Fydler, called to formulate a response to the Crawford report for the federal government.
“We think the diversity of sports available to Australians should continue,” Mr Coates said.
“We have evolved as a society, particularly in the last 20 or 30 years.
“We have a very multicultural society with different interests in sport.
“We don’t think we should go down the route that the East Germans went when they specialised.”
Coates said the meeting was “made a lot easier for us” by federal Sports Minister Kate Ellis’s recent statement that there would be additional funding for community sport as well as Olympic and Paralympic sport.
“It is not going to be a question of one or the other, as we were led to believe as we looked at the Crawford report, had that been taken up,” he said.
Businessman David Crawford’s report delivered a stinging rebuff to the AOC’s calls for an extra $100 million a year for 10 years for Olympic sports, saying that money would be better spent elsewhere.
But Coates, who has previously dismissed the report as disrespectful and insulting to Australia’s Olympic greats, said he had received “some encouraging signals” from the minister when they met last Sunday.
“We cleared the air over a few things,” he said.
“She wants to work with us so we can help her secure that (extra funding) from the (government’s) expenditure review committee.
“I am confident we’re going to give it a good shot.
“The minister does understand that if we are to maintain our position (on the Olympic medals table) this money has got to be available very soon.”
The government is due to respond to the Crawford report early next year.
Coates said Wednesday’s meeting also disagreed with the Crawford report suggestion that the Australian Sports Commission (ASC) and the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) be separated, and the AIS take over all state institutes of sport.
Paralympian Kurt Fearnley said: “It’s sad but dollars is what makes the sporting system go round, especially with high performance athletes.
“Australia will need to do something to stay up there.”
Judo representative Catherine Arlove said: “Some of the low profile sports will suffer if the funding is sucked out of the system.”
(98)
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Kurt said | December 3rd 2009 @ 2:36am | Report comment
I don’t think Coates goes far enough by comparing the Crawford report with the White Australia Policy. Investing in grassroots sport at the expense of elite Olympics performers is exactly the sort of thing Hitler and Stalin would have done – in fact I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that any proposal to reduce funding to Olympic sports is clearly a NAZI policy and anyone who supports it by extension supports genocide and global conquest.
Freud of Football said | December 3rd 2009 @ 3:38am | Report comment
Coates will seriously say anything. Hand it to him for being passionate about a cause but he’s probably convincing a lot of people who can’t see the truth that everything he says needs to happen.
Fencing and Air Pistol shooting don’t need millions of dollars, yes some people enjoy them but they are niche sports and while we love to gloat about our medals tally the country would be a lot prouder if the Socceroos could win a WC which is only thinkable if grassroots football gets the funds.
Shahsan said | December 3rd 2009 @ 5:33am | Report comment
Yes, very disingenuous of Coates. He cites table tennis and badminton — as if he and the AOC have any real interest in those. If they wanted medals in those sports they would just import those athletes.
In reality, the sports he and the AOC concentrate on are still the old favourites: swimming, cycling, triathlon, track and field — he could call them White Australia sports too, since he’s at it.
Despicable
Pippinu said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:02am | Report comment
Ok – now going from the sublime to the ridiculous – Coates pulling out all stops to remain firmly attached to the taxpayer funded teat, and now sucking it in hard for those extra milions he’s chasing – this is what this debate is really all about.
The Olympic machine, now way out of control in Australia – needs hundreds of millions of dollars extra just to stay roughly where it is, which means millions of dollars for sports that NO AUSTALIANS GIVE A DAMN ABOUT.
We may not be able to compete at judo, fencing, air pistol, sjoelbak and synchronised swimming???
That’s the best news I’ve ever heard!!!
Kurt said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:07am | Report comment
I suspect anyone who rejects the AOCs demands for a vast increase in funding for the Olympic Judo team is not just shortsighted but also very probably RACIST.
Pippinu said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:07am | Report comment
….forgot to throw in rythmic gymnastics, table tennis and badminton.
Funding table tennis?
If you want to play table tennis, buy a table for a few hundred bucks, put in the shed – you’ll have the time of your life.
Badminton?
I still have an old set somewhere in the shed that I have been planning to put out in the yard for the last 15 years (but never quite got round to it).
If you want to play these sports – put your money in your pocket, buy the equipment and off you go.
If you want to compete against anyone overseas – raise your own money with chook or duck raffles.
Pippinu said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:11am | Report comment
And if we’re talking about funding obscure sports, I’m going to put in a funding grant for korfball, sjoelbak and table soccer (with the latter in particular, it’s an absolute travesty that it currently gets zero government funding when it has such a major role to play in keeping troublesome kids off the streets).
All three fulfill the criterion of international competitiion, in fact, I suspect that table soccer is played by more people worldwide than most of the olympic sports combined.
mahony said | December 3rd 2009 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
It kept me of the streets as well Pip – it is a marvel!
Freud of Football said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:20am | Report comment
There are table-tennis tables in playgrounds all over Germany, hasn’t helped them a great deal.
Pippinu said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:24am | Report comment
wouldn’t the rain destroy the wood???
That’s like leaving a sjoelbak board out in the open!!
Freud of Football said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:26am | Report comment
Concrete tables with metal nets obviously, they couldn’t have the old ply-board tables around everywhere or they’d get nicked. They get an awful lot of use though, have to say I was surprised but in the summer there are always kids playing on them.
AndyRoo said | December 3rd 2009 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Germany does pretty well but Ping Pong is huuuuge in China.
It’s prime time TV….. and Chinese expats represent most countries, Germany is one of the few top ping pong countries where you see a non Chinese face.
So you could do things like build a lot of ping pong tables or we could sponcer a top Chinese player to defect. I prefer the former but if your going for medals you do the later.
Jaredsbro said | December 3rd 2009 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
OK Pip please Explain what sjoelbak is again
I just can’t take all these euthemisms/codewords…
I just want to say I both agree and disagree: Sport is about participation first and foremost, sporting excellence (glory etc) comes next, Entertainment comes third and having advertising space (in terms of cultural identity) Beer/Alcopop sponsorships comes fourth and so on.
However I do agree that there needs to be an awareness on the part of the AOC of what Australia does well and a consequent loyalty to sports which the majority of Australians care about or if not exactly care see in the said sport the intrinsic value of the said sport
Midfielder said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:29am | Report comment
Coates … you miss what he is doing …being serious now … Rove has retired … he wants the Sunday night gig … even writes his own stuff..
Freud of Football said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:32am | Report comment
Do you … write for … Christopher … Reeves? …
Midfielder said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:27am | Report comment
……………………..N……………………………….O……………………….
Jaredsbro said | December 3rd 2009 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
While we’re taking the piss of ourselves I should add that was fairly insultful to the memory of the Great Man of Steel
Pippinu said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:29am | Report comment
In Australia we should be fostering the BACKYARD OLYMPICS, which would include those sports that can be played in the traditional quarter acre backyard.
We would initially invite like minded nations: New Zealand, the US and Canada.
The sports would include:
1. Backyard cricket
2. Table tennis
3. Badminton
4. Hookey
5. Darts
6. Round the World
7. Goal shooting with a plastic cordial bottle
8. Table soccer
9. Totem tennis
Government funding would ensure that every household was provided with the appropriatte equipment.
The Government mission statement could be: no Austrlalian family will go without a dart or hookey board.
As the idea caught on, we would then guarantee that every Australian child could grow up with a decent backyard.
The billions of dollars we would eventually save from dropping out of the Olympics could be re-directed to this important objective.
Freud of Football said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:33am | Report comment
Used to be a champion at 7 in high school with a coke can
Midfielder said | December 3rd 2009 @ 7:53am | Report comment
Pip
You left out school handball .. I was school champ
Pippinu said | December 3rd 2009 @ 9:12am | Report comment
Mid
quite right (although more a school sport than a backyard sport).
One year we managed to monpolose the four marked out downball courts (a form of handball played against a wall) – and we instituted a four division system, with promotion and regulation at the end of each day (four on each court).
Not only was I second overall in premiership titles, but I am proud to say that I was the only one of the 16 never to drop below the second division – a modern day Man Utd.
Jaredsbro said | December 3rd 2009 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
How is NZ in anyway like Australia…? Our Govts havn’t shown any consideration to the Olympic movement or many if any Olympic sports and we don’t have Institutes for our Elitist cliques to hang either… Oh and our most famous Olympian from the last few games anyway is a cherished national treasure
Midfielder said | December 3rd 2009 @ 8:02am | Report comment
Pip
Did you listen to the youtube I posted you & Das on the code war thread.. if not I will post in this thread for you..
oikee said | December 3rd 2009 @ 8:57am | Report comment
I came up with the idea of having a mini Olympics for each code, Soccer, AFL, Rugby league, Rugby Union, sort of like oz greatest athlete, but have it amounst the codes. Now this idea is to root out our best athletes. There are many playing these codes. Now if they sunk money into these codes to support athletes who might be a chance at winning a gold medal, would that not be money better spent.?
Its a idea, and everyone wins, because you find the best athletes running around. I would happily forfeit Greg Inglis playing rugby league for 1 year if i thought he could win a 400 metre or 200 metre final. Same applies to Isreal Folou, if he could train to win a high-jump medal, would happily let him train for it for a gold medal chance, and inter code rivalry would create some great mini games high-lights. And maybe produce the institute of sport some extra talent. ?
Pippinu said | December 3rd 2009 @ 9:15am | Report comment
oikee
these things have been tried before – there was a recent one that I didn’t see – plus there used to be one that went for a few years in the late 70s – what happens is that the top notch professionals view it as such a farcical thing and a waste of time that you only attract the second best, hangers on, fringe players, etc.
Serious players have better things to do like off season ops, recovery from niggly injuries, returning to peak fitness, etc,
In other words – it’s a waste of everyone’s time.
Shahsan said | December 3rd 2009 @ 9:33am | Report comment
It’s actually not a bad idea. A deodorant company sponsored one such event recently on Channel 9 and a pretty strong field took part. I dont think you would call many of these guys second-rate athletes: Steve Hooker, Jaime Whincup, Lote Tuqiri; Billy Slater, Andrew Symonds, plus a few others I cannot remember (not because they weren’t good athletes). The winner was Slater, with Whincup second.
I do think Australia loses a lot of its potential Olympic winners and even soccer players because of the more popular non-Olympic sports, esp football codes. But why is that such a bad thing? The Olympics isnt everything.
Redb said | December 3rd 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
They picked a virtual nobody from AFL.
Kurt said | December 3rd 2009 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Worse than that. They picked a Richmond player. Urgh.
Shahsan said | December 3rd 2009 @ 9:43am | Report comment
Wasnt he a top draft pick or something? Can you see beyond your parochial views?
But the point remains that most of the others were worthy, and the comp was not a bad contest.
Redb said | December 3rd 2009 @ 9:47am | Report comment
Wouldn’t make the AFL Top 50 players. Where is Billy Slater in the pecking order?
Shahsan said | December 3rd 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Not sure. Among the best, I would guess.
Pippinu said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:01am | Report comment
Shahsan
I didn’t see the comp you refer to, so it’s hard for me to comment, but I understand that they sent Deledio, who I doubt would be a top 100 AFL player.
He might have been a top draft pick – but he was a Richmond selection – a club with the very worst record at draft selections, going all the way back to 1986.
Let’s be honest – if we were serious about it, as Kurt suggests – we woudn’t send a Richmond player!!!
Redb said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:01am | Report comment
Correction, he wouldnt make the Top 40 AFL players.
Ranked 41st.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mike-sheahans-top-50/story-0-1111119140132
Would have liked to see Chris Judd in there.
But Ch 9 wanted to promo their rugby league star….
Shahsan said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:10am | Report comment
I’m not debating who deserved to win. It doesn’t matter. I would think with Hooker, Wincup, Symonds, Tuqiri and the iron man (whose name eludes me) in there whoever wins would have to be a decent athlete.
My point was that the comp was an interesting idea, and one that they could extend to team events ie each sport has a squad and you pick your best player for the particualr event. They could all do the decathlon perhaps.
Pippinu said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:15am | Report comment
Shahsan
what were the events exactly?
Michael C said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:21am | Report comment
for taking Slater, a mature top half dozen player in his code,
and then take a 21 not fully matured kid from Richmond in Deledio, who, granted was a top draft pick….but, a 21 yr old kid vs a 25 yr old in Slater……..
at any rate – - – it was interesting to watch, but, the fact of having RU AND RL….basically the same skillsets – - – meant that Lote and Billy had a distinct advantage.
Symonds was perhaps a little too old too…..but, also had a known Rugby cross code link to give him a little advantage to trade off on the age factor. Hooker too had played a good amount of junior footy.
but….the clear thing was that Joel Griffiths was out of his league.
Redb said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Shahsan,
If you could take the top 10 players from the major sports – 4 football codes, cricket, basketball and say hockey and run a track and field meet it would be interesting.
Redb
Shahsan said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:25am | Report comment
They were athletic events, sometimes approximating to the skills you need in the indivduals’ sports, but not real events. eg, wall climbing, punching back, basketball shooting, rally driving, mini iron man, fielding a high ball, sprints, tackling, penalty shootouts etc.
See it here: http://www.greatestathlete.com.au/#/home
Pippinu said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Shahsan
sounds like fun.
Rally driving??!!
Shahsan said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Yes, RedB, that is something I’ve always wanted to see. An alternative might be to see them play each other at each other’s codes. One thing would be for sure: soccer would finish a distant last.
Pippinu said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:37am | Report comment
Playing each other at our various games is completely unrealistic.
But to create events that reflect each game might be fun, e.g.
Soccer – curling the ball around a wall (like they do on the training track)
Rugbies – taking penalties and threading the ball through a hole from 10 metres
Aussie rules – shots at goal from 50m, running and bouncing the footy every 15m, etc
but once again – it’s unlikely you’ll attract the cream from every sport to participate.
And depending on the events, and the personnel chosen – I disagree that soccer players would automatically come last.
AndyRoo said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:39am | Report comment
There was Benji Marshall vs Buddy Franklin on the NRL footy Show
Benji won of course but I don’t think either treated it as a Grand Final
Redb said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Didnt see the NRl footy show but it does not surprise the NRl star won on Ch 9.
Shahsan said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Pip, it’s not as silly as it sounds. Watched it against my better instincts but it proved interesting. A good laugh if nothing else.
Michael, Slater and Lote have similar skill sets but they’re different kind of athletes. The fair comparison with Slater would have been someone like Giteau. The euqivalent of Lote would have been, say, Wendell Sailor.
Yes, Griffiths was out of his league but for soccer they should have got someone among the top of his game as they did for the other sports (besides AFL), which means someone like Cahill or Kewell.
Wincup was surprisngly good. But no surprise really when you think about. It must require fantastic hand-eye coordination to be a top driver. And good hand-eye coordination is what makes good sportsmen.
The BBC had this type of program some time ago called Superstars, where various sportsmen competed in various sports. And the world winner was racing car driver Jodie Schecter.
Michael C said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:49am | Report comment
there’s basic or developed hand-eye co-ordination,
then, there’s ‘muscle memory’,
Whinchup would’ve had the former but not the latter.
Shahsan said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Pip
If we went with the events you cited then yes the soccer guy might not be last. But if the codes played each other at the various codes then they probably would.
Maybe I am being unfair: one is a contact sport while the others are collision sports.
Pippinu said | December 3rd 2009 @ 10:53am | Report comment
Shahsan
the other thing is that it’s pretty dangerous to form a scrum with blokes who don’t know what the’re doing!!
TammyS said | December 3rd 2009 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Andyroo, the benji vs buddy kicking challenge was on channel ten on their sports show and not on the footy show. I hear wendell sailor and craig lowndes are going to be in the second season
Shahsan said | December 3rd 2009 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Thanks Michael. Interesting.
Pip, well, we could always use unopposed scrums when the Aussie rules and soccer boys are involved.
Redb said | December 3rd 2009 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Franklin is fairly inaccurate. His great ability is to get the ball. His set shots are 50% crap.
Matty Lloyd would have put him to shame.
Jaredsbro said | December 3rd 2009 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
OMGosh finally some prophetic words from my man here…now I love seeing Antipodeans get gold (and every so often I watch you Ozzies win the swimming too) but three of the four codes of football I love will never be Olympic disciplines because only you Aussies are clued-up enough to be different enough to be out on your own in enough sports that it’s great having Aussies win everything and I come from the failed State of New Zealand
Jaredsbro said | December 3rd 2009 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
See MC Channel 9 does it too, it doesn’t make what Channel 7 did any more justified with their blatant un-truthss on a show which has a sizable primetime audience
BigAl said | December 3rd 2009 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Good to see John Coates slowly burying himself.
Jaredsbro said | December 3rd 2009 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
AndyRoo said | December 3rd 2009 @ 11:11am | Report comment
Thanks TammyS
There you go RedB, it’s legally binding now. Buddy and Benji’s kick about has ended the code wars for ever.
Redb said | December 3rd 2009 @ 11:16am | Report comment
Franklin is fairly inaccurate. His great ability is to get the ball. His set shots are 50% rubbish.
Matty Lloyd would have put him to shame.
Rod said | December 4th 2009 @ 1:49am | Report comment
And how often does Benji line up for a drop punt or banana kick at goal Red?
bahahahahaha
fumbleballers
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
didnt see it, but Marshall was probably gifted the ball and did not have to win it in a one on one contest – which is what AFL footballers have to do.
bahahahaha
dropkicks
Pippinu said | December 4th 2009 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
Check out Slater’s mongrel shots here:
http://www.greatestathlete.com.au/#/episodes
It’s hilarious!!!
The kick from 50 m only went 35 m and it bounced through for a goal – and they paid it!!!
But he beat Deledio and good on him – that’s why the tiges are hopeless!!!
Anyway – it looked like a fun show.
Jaredsbro said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
Yeah I’ve seen it all now. Y’know what strikes me most dasterdly about the Greatest Athlete crap, from the second episode I knew Slater was gonna win (and no this was before I saw the rankngs at the bottom of the screen) And how is Beach Tag Rugby a specialty of LT c’mon of course Slater’s gonna beat him in touch (which is basically what this was)
I definitely feel for the AFL (guy) as clearly they were the fall guys here (but 30 reps wasn’t too bad in the big scheme of things!)
Karlos said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:40am | Report comment
Interesting that a few days after Slater and Winnicup beat Deledio in kicking AFL goals and Slater was named as best athlete that the AFL propaganda machine set into motion to right the wrong by 9 against the AFL with a story headed with the question Äre AFL footballers the ultimate athletes? And can athletes make it in the AFL? by Daniel Hoy called “How superstars of sport match up.
Low and behold who is the best athlete???????????????????Drumroll?????????????????It is 22 year old Brett Deledio up against Sean Wroe (400m sprinter), Micheal Rodd (Jockey. Wow bet he was powerful) Erin Densham (Olympic triathlete chick) Drew Ginn (A 34 year old Olympic rower) and Peta Mullens (AIS cyclist). Six elite athletes were put through six rigorous tests to assess thier strength, fitness, flexibility and endurance. They did a bench press (in which Deledio should have been disqualified in Aus Greatest Athlete), verticle leap, Sit and reach and their VO2MAX was measured and I am not going into that other than to say it measures the abillity for one to keep pumping oxygen into their blood stream.
So obviously the Deledio is seen as some type of superstar at least in terms of his altheticism to be put forward not only in the channel 9 programme, but also in the Superfooty page in the Sunday Times in Perth (and no doubt in other AFL strongholds as therapy for any AFL person who watched Slater flog Deledio in just about everything). On the AFL’s side I did hear that Capper went okay in his boxing match against Wendell. Not bad considering he has been retired for some time and Sailor came straight out of the NRL season.
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
…. and how many of the Gilette Greatest Ch 9 athlete events were related to purely fitness?
Deledio got beat in the shots on goal that was a shocker for an AFL player, agree.
As for Franklin he has the one of the worst conversion records in the AFL, I could beat him 9 times out 10. His ability is winning the ball.
Get Marshall or Slater to man up on Franklin and bomb it in from outside 50 metres, get them to win the ball IN THE CONTEST first, then have a shot of goal.
Jaredsbro said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
LOL it was tailored to Slater…damn it and I knew it too! Of course RL’s going to be a game of the greatest athleticism (apart from what Hooker refered to as the Purest of Sports) Y’see he had the biggest advantage as his specialty was far too close to LT’s (who of course wouldn’t have won anyway
) but all the others really had an advantage in their field, which mean it came down to most all-round and guess who won?
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
Athleticism is a subjective term.
If your talking about explosive speed over short distance – RL.
If your talking about endurance running and spring – AFL.
Redb
Jaredsbro said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
LOL again I can’t see much mention from you Pip about RU, clearly LT was disadvantaged, can’t believe anyone actually bought the straw man case that was his speciality sport. C’mon no rucking, no rolling maul, none of the ‘athletic’ skills needed to excel at RU!
Kurt said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:10am | Report comment
No doubt about it, the debate over the results of a cable TV reality show represents a new nadir for the code-wars. Next up, who has the smelliest farts – league or AFL players?
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
and one of the first segments will be to see if Melbourne Storm can be sold for more than $1. Roy Masters will bid a few arrowroot biscuits for sure.
Rod said | December 4th 2009 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
Well the Swans were eventually cashed in for a buck, I see no reason why the Storm won’t cash in either.
Oh and funny how you forget to mention the 20 million.
All spin and BS Red.
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
You know the difference between the Swans and the Storm?…. one has a future.
Self serving Sydney NRL clubs will starve the life out of Storm’s football Dept, its on field performance will decline, the super rugby team will take most of the Kiwi fans and it will be left rotting until relocated to the Central Coast or disbanded. Maybe $1 is too high?
Pippinu said | December 4th 2009 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
Rod
no need to use disrespectful language.
SuperFooty wins Australian Sports Commission Media Awards for its outstanding coverage – read about it here:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superfooty-wins-australian-sports-commission-media-awards-for-its-outstanding-coverage/story-e6frf9if-1225806755200
Pippinu said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
I’ve actually got no idea what you’re talking about – and if the moderators were doing their job you’d be outta here.
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
Put a lot of thought into that one.
Shahsan said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:25pm | Report comment
Like i said, nothing to think about. It is an insular, simpleton’s game. Whatever issue you bring up, the game’s followers bring the debate down to a certain level, missing the point entriely every time — as this thread has illustrated perfectly.
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
I don’t think you understand the tactical nature of one on one positions in AFL then.
Your entilted to your opinion even if itself is simple, insular and ignorant.
Shahsan said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
I’m not talking about the “one on one” issue, which is common to every sport on earth, by the way.
Just go read the first mention above of the idea of having some kind of multisport contest, and the only issue you can talk about is the fact AFL didnt win. No one talked about who was best, it wasn’t the issue. But you couldn’t let go that they chose deledio or whatever his name is.
It is the same practically every time: when rugby 7s got the Olympics nod, AFL types jumped in saying “we might as well have 9s”. But who the hell in the world plays 9s? So damn insular.
And the inability to diffrentiate betwen rugby union and rugby league is another demonstartion fo that stubborn, brainless insularity.
Michael C said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
9s is a very common form of Aust Footy across the world (or 12s – - depending upon A. venue available and B. regular numbers)
there are regular tournaments such as the Dubai 9s, and Bali 9s,
and the Euro Championships use a 9s format,
(note also, recFooty in Australia I think tends to be an ‘8s’ format).
I’m working on a Melb based pre-season 9s lightning premiership……for fun, for something a bit different and for when the cricketers are often still tied up and footy teams can struggle to have full availability for seniors and ressies full sides practice matches.
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:56pm | Report comment
that’s Ok. It;s all rugby isn’t?
You lot got on about this so much it’s just too precious.
Shahsan said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
Because of the insularity. You think your sport is a big deal, and it is, in Australia. But don’t be so ignorant. The world is a bigger place.
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
You confuse passion for the game with insularity. That is a common mistake.
Shahsan said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:45pm | Report comment
Passion is good. Passion I can understand.
But a boofheaded inability to discuss anything without making your sport the centre of the universe — that, I cannot understand.
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:07pm | Report comment
re rugby 7’s, well I never said anything about 9’s. So I dont know what your on about.
In fact your generalisations are coming thick and fast about AFL and AFL fans.
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
Your talking rubbish and losing it.
The Kiwi reference is the identical argument used by those to attack the support of the Sydney Swans re only expats follow them.
it is an expat following their own game argument. Grow up.
Redb
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
Whilst your on your little rant, take notice of my avatar. It features Paddy Ryder an indigenous Australian footballer.
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
go away your just boring me now.
Michael C said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
Rod mate -
your confusing specific ethnic based programs with racism.
I gather you’d regard the upcoming NRL indigenous game as a stunning example of racism…..(beware, the AFL has been running indigenous all stars games for quite some time now…..pure racism off course!!!).
There’s even an NZ Maori’s team,
BUT …… the point is – - there’s a Victorian Maori’s RL team.
Do you get it??
THere’s a specific focus by the VFL on the Maori and Islander demographic in Melbourne/Victoria.
And why wouldn’t they?? It makes sense.
But, apparently for us to refer to it is racism.
Get a life mate.
btw – there’s even a QLD Maori team,…….what’s going on here?? total ethnicising of the game…….it’s like the RL folk haven’t learned any lessons from the old ethnicised NSL????
Springs said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
How is the All Stars game racist? It gives indigenous players a chance to represent their people, it’s not like their is an Aboriginal team in the NRL and all the Indigenous players are forced to play for them.
Michael C said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
by Rod’s measure – it must be,
you see, he’s picking on us for refering to the NZ expat/islander following and high participation for the Storm and VRL in general,
and that apparently is deemed ‘racist’,
whereas, we live here and know that there is a specific focus on that demographic,
for us to OBSERVE and comment (positively on it) is hardly racist,
but, if Rod believes it to be racist, then, so too is any comment around Indigenous all-stars games.
Surely??
Michael C said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
btw – typo
THere’s a specific focus by the VFL VRL on the Maori and Islander demographic in Melbourne/Victoria.
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
No worries mate, just dont wear out the h and a.
Springs said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
Rod I agree with what you’re saying mate. (Except for the racist RedB part), but you gotta settle down.
Michael C said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
Are you confusing the VFL based in Melbourne/Victoria with stuff all ‘local’ indigenous lads with the code as a whole?
Check the history of indigenous players in the SANFL and WAFL.
The biggest issue for so long was the culture shock of indigenous players coming to Melbourne and it’s cold winters as well.
It took quite some time to develop the skills/knowledge etc to make that transition more possible……and the imperitive was very much heightened by the nationalised league……my club North Melbourne was exploring the possibilities very much so in the early 80s with Jim and Phil Krakouer coming over from Claremont and Robert and Rodney Cockatoo who came down from Cairns but struggle to acclimatise. To that time, there were still VFL clubs who had never ‘employed’ an indigenous lad. That was sad.
The society in general was very racist, and as a young fella growing up watching the Krakouer boys – the abuse from opposition supporters was saddening, but, their footy did the talking and usually won the grudging respect/admiration along with further abuse, that, similar to cricket crowds abusing Imran, Hadlee or Beefy BOtham was actually a measure of respect. Strange that…..the more they ‘rate’ someone, the more they felt able to abuse that person.
Me thinx we’ve all moved on a bit and grown up as a society.
But – if you wish to make it a code vs code ‘racist’ thing……fine.
Michael C said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
It depends -
are you just here to cause trouble??
Spencer said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
GOLD..lol.. Its been so long since I have read a good fart joke (story). Thanks Rod.
Redb said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
“But back to my point RedB, how many decades was the VFL behind the NSWRL/QLDRL in allowing Aboriginals to play, captain and represent the club, states and national teams?”
This part I’ll address.
I have no idea why the VFL took longer but it would be fair to say that Victoria has tradtionally had a much smaller indigenous popualtion than either NSW and QLD and that might have had something to do with it.
It wasn’t until Western Australians started playing in the VFL like Polly Farmer at Geelong in the 1960s and 1970s that indigenous players really kicked on.
Today over 70 indigenous players are on AFL lists and the game is far better for it.
The VFL/AFL unfortuantely had issues with racism for sometime, right up until Nicky Winmar lifted his St Kilda jumper and showed his black skin to the Collingwood faithful who were hassling him. Followed by Michael long who challenged a racist insult from Damien Monkhurst which brought the issue to light. The AFL brought in an education policy and penalties with ZERO tolerance for racism. The game is far better for it but not perfect.
Redb
Pippinu said | December 4th 2009 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
I would have thought the AFL has come a long way in terms of dealing with racism on the park.
In Spain or Italy, you can’t go to a soccer game without listening to monkey sounds all game.
Art Sapphire said | December 4th 2009 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
Gee, its pretty heated in this thread.
I propose a moratorium on the AFL/NRL code war until the New Year.
Its not only the off-season, but the season for goodwill as well.
You can charge your batteries for next season and spend the rest of the holiday season just bagging “football” instead.
Pippinu said | December 4th 2009 @ 4:19pm | Report comment
It’s not too bad – I only count one of our number that has been actually banned.
Jaredsbro said | December 4th 2009 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
This part of your Bastard who keeps all Bastards honest policy Art
I just want to say that Australia has some problems with Race but it certainly has plenty more problems with accusations/counter-accusations of racism, much like the States was traditionally/is still in many small/larger communities. But things seem to be getting better, but the key is to be progressing…and seeing yourself progress otherwise the sacrifices of the past are in vain
But I think the premise of this thread is on the money, in as far as there is still a majoritarian approach to sport in this country. All major sports are all trying to appeal to the bradest market and any (counter)accusations of elitism are like ICBMs, they serve no more purpose than to keep people feeling a bit safer.
But sport is not about fitting in, tho it does help those who are insecure fit in a bit more than they otherwise would. Just look at the NRL booze wagon for example and its easy to see what an insidious culture of trying to fit in at all costs achieves/results in. But anyway sport is about excelling at that which you’re best at and some people are best at minority sports, while others are happy to fit in but only do so well at the majority sports.