Create a Super Rugby conference in Argentina
Roar Guru
By rugbyfuture, 4 Dec 2009 rugbyfuture is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- Argentina, Los Pumas, Rugby Union, SANZAR, Super 15, Super Rugby, Super Rugby 2011, Tri Nations
Forget about expansion of the Super 14 (soon to be 15) to 18, forget about giving the South Africans, Japanese and Islanders teams. A whole new conference should be created, all in Argentina.
With the expansion of the Tri-Nations to the Quad Nations, and the hope to create professional structures in Argentina, it is the only, and most viable, option.
A further reason for such a case is the fierce defence of the current amateur structure in Argentina.
A Super Rugby conference can create the professional tier, above the current top championship In Argentina, with 5 of the 25 teams contributing to each team, and the top Zona Campeonato expanded into 10 teams from the current 8, the top two from each conference.
The 5 Argentinean sides will be broken up into the 5 regions; North West, North, Cuyo, Patagonia and Buenos Aires-Pampas.
This conference could be set-up within a few years of the Argentinean inclusion in the Quad Nations. Furthermore, regulations such as used by the current Tri-Nation’s teams should be enforced onto Los Pumas, where within a set transfer period, only players playing within the Super Rugby competition can play for the national team.
Of course, this would mean an expanded finals series.
But really, who’s complaining?
Buenos Aires-Pampas | Buenos Ares, Centro, Sur, Oeste, Mar Del Plata
Patagonia | Tierra Del Fuego, Austral, Chubut, Lagos Del Sur, Alto Valle
North | Entrerriana, Misiones, Noreste, Santafesina, Rosario
North West | Santiaguena, Tucuman, Formosa, Jujena, Salta
Cuyo | Cuyo, Cordoba, Riojana San Luis, Sanjuanna
This system would encourage competition internally, broaden commerciality and support the need for professionalism and entry into the Quad Nations for Argentina.
Enjoy sports? Enjoy a bargain? All Sports Online has your favourite sporting brands at up to 70% off. Online only, premium quality sporting goods and merchandise at discounted prices. Get a deal now.
Do you have what it takes to become a sports writer? Write for the roar
Rugby Union articles
- Will Super Rugby crowds continue their slide? (178)
- Will South African rugby force a Super 21 by 2018? (171)
- Brumbies 2012: New coach, new players, new attitude (128)
- Pocock set to be named new Force skipper (56)
- Can the ‘Tahs win the battle after losing the Waugh? (51)
- What does the future hold for the Six Nations (50)
- Wales and France the early stars of the Six Nations (48)
- Wales’ Davies banned for ‘tip tackle’ (2)
- Graham Henry’s rugby future confirmed (12)
- Barnes to lead Waratahs in first hitout
- Harris and Lucas in Reds No.10 audition (3)
- Wales show Southern Hemisphere how to play running rugby (18)
- Dan Parks and the unsolved questions of expat rugby (61)
- David Pocock: a skipper my Force teammates will fight for (21)
- Wales show Southern Hemisphere how to play running rugby (18)
- What opening matches of Six Nations taught us (16)
- Will Super Rugby crowds continue their slide? (198)
- Clinical Chiefs cost rusty Rebels in Corio (9)
- Six Nations shows rugby is a parochial game at heart (5)
- Goose’s Super Rugby up-and-comer XV for 2012 (29)
- What does the future hold for the Six Nations (50)
- Explore:
- Argentina, Los Pumas, Rugby Union, SANZAR, Super 15, Super Rugby, Super Rugby 2011, Tri Nations
Working Class Rugger said | December 4th 2009 @ 7:50am | Report comment
Rugbyfuture
If/when Super Rugby decides to grow the product into the Americas via establishing a conference not only in Argentina but in the USA and Canada at least. For the Americas to participate in Super Rugby they would need effectively their own self contained conference only playing teams from the other 3 conference’s in the finals.
rugbyfuture said | December 4th 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment
yes, thats exactly what i am pointing out, however i don’t think that the whole of the americas will ever compete, but do believe that one day canada, mexico, USA and the west indies possibly with brazil and uruguay have their competition more formally established and widely known ala Asian five nations
Dean Pantio said | December 4th 2009 @ 8:08am | Report comment
The Argentine Union has to go professional first…
In December 2007 the 23 provincial delegates at an Extraordinary Meeting of the UAR voted unanimously to keep their domestic league amateur, although the Pumas selection pool would be centrally contracted as professionals to the UAR, but most of them play in Europe.
Still, a good idea I’d support.
rugbyfuture said | December 4th 2009 @ 8:46am | Report comment
that is why i looked into this once they were invited to the tri nations, letting those domestic clubs stay amateur whilst having a proffesional competition in place to feed off the best and gradually attract the argentinean players back to their home country, the IRB and the Argentine union have also siad they will try and go proffesional between 2013 and 2018
Working Class Rugger said | December 4th 2009 @ 10:59am | Report comment
rugbyfuture
I actually see the Americas Rugby Championship as the perfect vessel to assist in establishing a Super Rugby like Competition in the Americas. This year there were 4 Canadian teams, US Select and the Jaguars. I have already found murmurs that their will be 4 USA teams next year. Argentina could easily enter 4 Provincial sides. Making 12. Considering the Canadian’s now have their U20′s Championship (13 teams this season growing to 16 next season), the USA looking to establish an Elite College Championship and the Argentine amateur structure each Nation will have the necassary base’s to support 4 teams each intially. Sponsorship would definitely be an issue but not unachievable. As for countries like Mexico, they are still a ways off ( though thanks to 7s Rugby is growing rapidly in these Nations) but Ururguay and Chile would be the next cabs off the rank to run at least one side. Brazil not far behind. Could be worth a shot leading up to the Rio games.
sheek said | December 4th 2009 @ 11:11am | Report comment
WCR,
Obviously I didn’t read your post thoroughly. Yes, I agree US, Canada & Argentina in an Americas conference is a terrific idea – 3N & S12, similar to SANZAR.
rugbyfuture said | December 4th 2009 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Yeh, but i still dont see the argentines encouraging or developing this way as they’re so strong and as i said the IRB are forcing some sort of proffesionalism into the union, they’re already starting to centrally contract some players, not to mention Agustín Pichot’s strong influence and heavy handed push towards cooperating with SANZAR over NAWIRA
mitzter said | December 4th 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
exactly, for argentina’s benefit their future must lie with SANZAR not lowly US and Canada but the jaguars should stay as development for the Americas.
Maybe sometime in the future we will see an americas conference or an argentina conference but it is a couple of years away
sheek said | December 4th 2009 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Rugbyfuture,
This is a terrific idea. Increase the S15 to S20 in one swoop. Same deal – every team plays the other teams in its conference twice (home & away) for 10 matches. Plus cross-overs 4 from each other province. That’s 22 matches in total. Followed by quarter-finals (top 2 from each conference).
But this would be some way off. Just a minor criticism, give the regions a bit more relevant names than mere compass headings. I would suggest Buenos Aires, Rosario, Cuyo, Tucuman & Patagonia, for example. Thus the regions take on the name of the dominant province, except for Patagonia, which remains a region.
WCR,
Incorporating the US & Canada as well as Argentina, is far too ambitious. And to be blunt, geographically & financially impractical. To be honest, I’m not even sure Argentina will ever join SANZAR. It would make sense for rugby to eventually adopt a similar continental plan as exists in football.
Thus you would have several divisions in Europe; an African conference (ex-SA); an Asian conference (including Pacific Islands); an Americas conference (north & south), plus a stand-alone SANZAR.
Whether in the future SANZAR could expect to be a stand-alone conference is another debate again for another time.
Working Class Rugger said | December 4th 2009 @ 11:11am | Report comment
Sheek
They would still have the conference structure. The South American and the North American. Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Brazil would obviously be in the S American conference and the Canadian and US team in the North. If Mexico ever get to the point they can enter a team they’d go to the North.
LT80 said | December 4th 2009 @ 11:12am | Report comment
This sounds like an exercise in empire building.
In general, people like watching their clubs play against their neighbours. The most intense rivalries are usually between teams in close proximity.
So you want a home-and-away competition, literally spanning the entire southern hemisphere? Wow!
rugbyfuture said | December 4th 2009 @ 11:21am | Report comment
The national competition still exists, and the teams will still be playing their neighbours, but there would be an extra, regional layer over these, sortof like south africa. by pulling the top competiion to 10 and having two teams from each region compete it spreads the game to the non rugby friendly areas, and otherwise the relegation comp underneath stays the same. during off seasons the players can go play club, and it would keep the amateurism for the unions whilst giving them the ability to retain top quality players
Working Class Rugger said | December 4th 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
No I want Elite Rugby played in the Americas to raise the standard of the game in both continents. And why is it ‘Empire building’ because its Rugby.
Joh4Canberra said | December 4th 2009 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
And the economics of it all??? Cost of paying Argentine players + cost of their travel to NZ/AUS/RSA + cost of NZ/AUS/RSA teams’ travel to Argentina = enormous. Where is all this extra money going to come from?
On another point: Has the thought occurred to anyone else that the direction SH rugby is taking is increasingly along the lines of Packer’s touted World Rugby Competition (WRC) rather than the original Murdoch SANZAR vision? Following the 1995 World Cup and when rugby was about to turn pro there was a battle between Packer and Murdoch for rugby union. Murdoch won, the Super 12 (taking existing provincial sides) was formed and Packer’s WRC quickly forgotten. Now, however, we seem quite a way from that as we’re creating franchises out of nothing (more akin to Packer’s WRC vision).
rugbyfuture said | December 4th 2009 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
broadcast rights and sponsorships as always and the IRB are quite willing to subsidise argentinean rugby
PastHisBest said | December 4th 2009 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
“Has the thought occurred to anyone else that the direction SH rugby is taking is increasingly along the lines of Packer’s touted World Rugby Competition (WRC)”
Only the shape of the competition, the difference being that the unions control the player base.
Working Class Rugger said | December 4th 2009 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
If Super Rugby ever went to the Americas it would need to be a self contained competition in itself. In fact, Super Rugby should be moving toward a situation where they have 4 or 5 independent conference’s with only the Top 2 from each conference meeting those from the other 3 or4 conference’s in the finals series. Thus the travel cost would be far less.
As for the WRC comment. Yes, I have noticed that too.
Darwin hammer said | December 4th 2009 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
The self contained conference system is certainly is the only way to go – but be careful what you wish for – Australain rugby’s pretty light on at the moment – but maintains a #3 spot due to the fact it’s players have had regular exposure to the top drawer quality players / teams from NZ and SA … moving to a solely self contained conference will severely limit that exposure and may see the overall quality regress …
rugbyguy said | December 4th 2009 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
I like the idea, of an elite level competition in argintina, and with a conference systym could be teid into super rugby,
since only the conference winners will have to travel it wouldn’t be that big a deal.
The big problem as i see it is that argentine rugby will never be able to compete with the Salaries on offer in europe, it is a problem faced by all of southern hemishpere rugby but perhaps even more so by argentina.
The simple fact is european clubs have huge finacial resources, they are capable of generating much more revenue,
the reason is simple too their fans pay in pouns or euros while our fans pay with dollars and lira or pesos or whatever they use in argentina, it would be great to see domestic competitions full of the best domestic talent but it is hard to get players to turn down financial security
rugbyfuture said | December 4th 2009 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
Thats Why we have the national team restrictions, where only people who play in the comp can play