By Spiro Zavos
December 7th 2009 @ 5:51am
Related coverage
A poor 2009 rugby season ends on a higher note
Australia's James O'Connor, center, tries to break through the tackle of New Zealand All Blacks during the Bledisloe Cup rugby test at the National Olympic Stadium in Tokyo, Saturday, Oct. 31, 2009. All Blacks won the test, 32-19. (AP Photo/Shuji Kajiyama)
61,551 fans saw the All Blacks get beaten by the Barbarians (with 7 South Africans and four Australians giving the side some flair and toughness) by 25 – 18. For all the complaints about ‘what’s wrong with rugby’ this festival match drew a crowd four times bigger than the London rugby league Test between England and Australia in the Four Nations tournament.
You could argue that the second string All Blacks side looked mediocre compared with the brilliant team that trounced France with five tries a week ago at Marseille. Stephen Donald at first five-eighths in the first half once again gave an impression of a puppet that had its strings cut every time he got the ball.
And the commentators, especially Justin Marshall, raved about Jason Leonard at halfback. Perhaps they have the same manager (only facetious, Jason) but it did seem to me that Leonard bombed about three tries, any one of which at the time would have sealed the game for the All Blacks.
Another way of looking at the second string All Blacks is that they came within one converted try of drawing with a terrific side, with Bryan Habana at his magical best. And they did this with a mediocre performance from Donald, Rondey So’aialo, Liam Messam, and without their great players (except for Richie McCaw in the first 40 minutes). This is the attitude that the usually All Blacks-knocking British rugby media has initially taken, anyway.
The All Blacks are ranked the number one team in the world despite the fact that they have had a 10 wins and five losses season.
The claims for the international side of the year, though, lie between the Springboks with their series win over the British and Irish Lions and their emphatic victory in the Tri-Nations tournament, and Ireland who have been unbeaten in 2009 with a Grand Slam (for the first time in 60 years) and defeating the Springboks two weeks ago.
Because I am a romantic as far as rugby is concerned I don’t think that teams that emphasise the football part of rugby football should be held up for admiration. The Springboks simply played too much boring rugby (admittedly winning rugby until they got to Europe and were defeated by France and Ireland) to be put on a pedestal.
Ireland won their Tests (and the draw on time against the Wallabies) by having a complete rugby game.
The forwards were combative and skillful, with the scrum being the only obvious weakness, and the backs were always inclined to run the ball at their opponents.
My man of the season must be Fourie du Preez.
He is, I am sure, the finest South African since Danie Craven (who I’ve only read about) in the 1930s. Du Preez’s attack, his sniping runs, his covering, his kicking, his ability to organise an attack make him the perfect player. So much of the Springboks and the Bulls success revolves around him.
For Australian rugby the season has been for the most part an annus horribilis.
All the Super 14 teams were poor. None of them made the finals.
Worse still, the NSW Waratahs, in particular, played in such a lethargic, brain-dead manner that even the most loyal of supporters felt inclined to give them away.
The Wallabies started the Test season well against Italy and France and then fell into a heap during the Tri-Nations. There was a stand-out victory against the Springboks at Brisbane which was followed by one of the most gutless performances even given by a Wallabies side against the All Blacks at Wellington.
Just as the All Blacks could not defeat the Springboks this season (a pattern maintained by the Boks-led Barbarians), the Wallabies could not defeat the All Blacks, losing four times to them this season.
It has been pointed out that the Wallabies came within a few points of winning a most unlikely Grand Slam on their Spring tour.
There were good victories against England and Wales: a draw against Ireland, after the home side was outplayed for most of the match, and a loss to Scotland when the home side was totally out-played throughout the match.
Like the All Blacks against France, the Wallabies ended their Test season on a high with a splendid victory over Wales, no easy thing at Millennium Stadium.
And for the Barbarians, Matt Giteau played a magnificent game to show that he is worthy (at times) of being mentioned in the same sentence as Daniel Carter.
The emphatic victory over Wales gave the Wallabies some momentum into next year.
Melbourne has won the 5th Australian Super Rugby franchise which gives rugby a footprint across the entire eastern seaboard.
And on Thursday, so I understand, the Super 14 coaches will meet with the ARU’s John O’Neill and Robbie Deans to be told that they have to lift the intensity, performance and entertainment levels of their teams.
All his gives hope for better things for 2010. Play on!
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Sam el Perro said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:07am | Report comment
The rugby league match in London was between Australia and New Zealand, not Australia and England. Don’t let the facts get in the way of an off-topic swipe at another sport, though.
Severian said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:33am | Report comment
The Barbarians had a total of zero English players in their side. One game was an exhibition match, the other a full on test between the 2 best teams in the world.
The Link said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:39am | Report comment
Its a tried and true forumla on how to get your articles noticed in Australia and Sydney in particular. If its just a summary of Rugby’s year in 2009 it doesn’t really get anyone’s attention.
Sam el Perro said | December 7th 2009 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Notwithstanding that, it is a bit of a straw man to set up. Rugby union is more popular than rugby league in the south of England? Who would’ve thought it?
That factually incorrect throwaway comment added nothing to the analysis of the year in rugby union and ensured that these comments have turned into yet another humdrum set of code wars comparisons.
MyGeneration said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:08am | Report comment
There was no London rugby league Test between England and Australia in the Four Nations tournament. A strangely negative way to start an article about Rugby Union, in more ways than one.
AGO74 said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:28am | Report comment
I agree MyGeneration – aside from an obvious dig at the mungo’s the point has absolutely no relevance. It’s just hiding the fact that 9 out of 10 rugby tests are boring kick-a-thon’s. Getting the odd entertaining one like Saturday’s (which I’ll take you word on as I did not see) in what is essentially nothing more than an exhibition game doesn’t mean all is rosy. I quote your fellow SMH columnist and rugby nut Peter FitzSimons from Saturday’s SMH:
“Thank Gawd that rugby season is at last over. Let the record show these three things.
1. On average, there were 65 kicks a match in the Six Nations and 68 in the Tri Nations – about one every 75 seconds or so.
2. The people are in revolt and have made it clear that they don’t want to watch rugby like that any more.
3. The challenge, thus, for administrators, coaches and players, is to come up with ways whereby they can play the game the way it was meant to be played … or face the consequences.”
The scrums are also a farce. I clearly remember in the Bledisloe match here in Sydney (I think it was Sydney). The ref put down a scrum 5 times, each of them collapsed and finally gave up and blew a penalty for something the commentators couldn’t determine what. The Wallabies got the ball and ran across the field and had another scrum. Five scrums later another penalty and then they ran back to where they started from!! This whole of two teams crabbing their way across a field and back took about 7 or 8 minutes out of the game!
Oh, but it’s alright because amongst other things a glorified exhibition game drew more than a rugby league test……?!?!
21st Century said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:15am | Report comment
At least the RL test was between two actual teams, not New Zealand and some antiquated brand name that’s used to rub ex-league stars in Australia’s collective face. I guess the British/Irish All-Stars team was too exclusive for these 11 Wallaboks. I’m sure the devoted fans in Barbaria are thrilled with this victory.
Pete said | December 7th 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
what is wrong with hybrid teams for an exhibition match? I loved the ABs vs. Barbarians match and I’m looking forward to the RL Indigenous All Stars team next year… and before anyone starts… lets not go down the path of which game will be better. Enjoy them for what they are.
Ora said | December 13th 2009 @ 6:52am | Report comment
21st,
I would go as far as saying this wasn’t even the ABs not even close to it it was a match between second stringers and blokes highly unlikely to get a recall against a team of mostly SH players looking for that final big payday before the summer break.
Crosscoder said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:16am | Report comment
i agreed with the point about the Barbarians being entertaining,but having attended one in Sydney in the Campo days,the intensity is hardly the factor ,it is more about playing entertaining rugby union.and yes it is a good way to end a season/
However to draw comparisons with a rugby league test,when there was none played in London ,when ru is huge in the UK by comparsions,is just another example of the typical anti rl attitudes that are perpetuated by media people and some (not all) ru fans.It does the author no favours.
I also find the story(‘rugby finishes on a high note”) was a tad premature,maybe Quade Cooper can comment.
Colin N said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:20am | Report comment
“was a tad premature,maybe Quade Cooper can comment.”
I think the article would have been written before that came out.
Colin N said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:18am | Report comment
“And the commentators, especially Justin Marshall, raved about Jason Leonard at halfback.”
Deary, deary me.
BRENDON Leonard was good around the fringes but his pass is so inconsistant.
[Fixed - thanks. Ed.]
CraigB said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:58am | Report comment
Poor Jason, first game at 1/2 back, he’s entitled to make a couple of mistakes…. Put Justin Marshall at prop I say.
katzilla said | December 7th 2009 @ 8:52am | Report comment
‘Jason Leonard at halfback’
Lol having one of the greatest props of all time being that fast with a pass?
Scary stuff.
pothale said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Eh – no it’s not. It still says:
“And the commentators, especially Justin Marshall, raved about Jason Leonard at halfback. Perhaps they have the same manager (only facetious, Jason)”
Barking Glider said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:20am | Report comment
this festival match drew a crowd four times bigger than the London rugby league Test – big deal! Most AFL games outdrew the Barbarians game every weekend of the year. So what?
I again ask, can a RU writer on the Roar please write a RU article without resorting to a mention of rugby league?
Sadly, it seems impossible.
Grandpabhaile said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:25am | Report comment
There are plenty of articles written about rugby without mentioning league.
But it serves as a useful comparitor to the difference in size between rugby and league – and size does matter, no matter what they tell you.
Barking Glider said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:33am | Report comment
Rubbish, Why not compare the try scoring feats between the codes, or the supreme talent of the Kangaroos backline? No, let’s compare the crowd for no particular reason other than to have a shot at league.
Why not compare it to the zero attendance at the England v Australia AFL match in London. It’s just as useable as an example or comparison.
Bay35Pablo said | December 7th 2009 @ 8:24am | Report comment
Keep bigging up league’s internationals and you’ll get that ….
PastHisBest said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment
“or the supreme talent of the Kangaroos backline?”
I prefer to just call them ‘The Supremes”.
AGO74 said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:33am | Report comment
Oh yeah, can’t wait for that next rugby world cup when we see whether Japan, Portugal, USA, Romania etc get beaten by 60, 70 or 80 points eh? See those sort of blow-outs in a rugby league world cup, and everyone can’t wait to tut-tut at the uncompetitiveness of it all. But in a rugby world cup, its ok, because rugby is a ‘world game’. Blah, blah, blah.
pothale said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
But it’s only relevant in Australia, and bits of England – it’s not a serious game anywhere else.
BN said | December 7th 2009 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
And Union is not that relevent in Australia any more (And we have still won two world cups). Besides Wales, New Zealand and maybe S.A. where else is Union really that big. In reality Rugby Union is a minor sport in most of the countries it’s played. Want to compare to the numbers that watch/play Soccor, Basket Ball, Cricket etc. Are they better then Rugby Union? Next you will be trying to tell me that often quoted 3 billion viewers figure for the Union world cup final is real.
If the game in queston was such a good one, why didn’t the writer start off referring to Habbana’s 3 try Hattrick. Why, becasuse this happens relativily often in League and the only way he could score points againts the code was to refer to the crowd numbers and not the game itself.
I also still find it amazing how Union supporters always talk about the crowds and hardly ever about how good the game is.
Then again they can’t, especially when you struggle to get 40 mintues of gameplay in around all the Scrum resets and Kicking. And I’m being kind here, some internationals have had as litttle as 20 mintues of actual play, almost as bad as NFL standards. With the recent talk of giving Union players more protection via NFL style helmets and padding, it won’t be long before you’re there anyway.
It’s really is sad how Union Supporters try to convince themselves the their code is the better game. Less actual play, almost no tries (thought it was the running game?), pedantic referees, cheating (Bloodgate anyone) and fans/writers who refuse to recognise the boring specticle is has become.
Must be pretty boring in heaven if this is the game they play.
PastHisBest said | December 7th 2009 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
“maybe S.A. where else is Union really that big”
You are kidding right?? Are you a troll in sheep’s clothing or just a dumbass?
“Must be pretty boring in heaven if this is the game they play.”
You’ll never know…
Shahsan said | December 7th 2009 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
“It’s really is sad how Union Supporters try to convince themselves the their code is the better game. Less actual play, almost no tries (thought it was the running game?), pedantic referees, cheating (Bloodgate anyone) and fans/writers who refuse to recognise the boring specticle is has become. ”
That is utter nonsense. “Better” is subjective, but the reality is, that to real rugby union fans, no matter how bad the game becomes — and i for one think it is something that just good attitude and quality execution will fix, as recent games have shown — it will always be a better game than rugby league.
Yes there are more tries in RL, but to me, the journey to those tries is extremely boring and unchallenging.
The beauty of RU is the journey itself: the battle for forward domination, the work at set pieces, the choice of tactics and the decision making involved. It is not just running and crossing the line. If you dont understand that then you wil never understand why we prefer rugby union to rugby league.
The comparison to us is not whether rugby union is better to watch then rugby league, but whether rugby union can be better than or as good as we know it can be and have seen it.
Ai Rui Sheng said | December 9th 2009 @ 2:46am | Report comment
Sadly I cannot think of a hat trick that did not include three tries, or perhaps, Rex Mossop is alive and blogging. If you had thrown in a malapropism or two to go with the tautology, I would be certain!
Why do so many Australians have to trash other sports. Who cares about your inferiority complexes.
I love to watch Carlton trash Carringbush or Dame Edna’s mob, and anyone trash the Manly ferries. I also love to watch the Jets or the Giants inventing a new way to lose when they have the game won. I really love to watch the Tri_nations rather than the Bi-Nations aka Six Nations. I have a lot of love, don’t you think?
pothale said | December 9th 2009 @ 3:38am | Report comment
“The beauty of RU is the journey itself: the battle for forward domination, the work at set pieces, the choice of tactics and the decision making involved.”
Nicely written, Shahsan, and well put. Shall remember that. Thanks.
Woody Warambel said | December 8th 2009 @ 5:19pm | Report comment
& Pothole what countries in the Northern Hemisphere have full time professional lRU competitions?
Two or three?
pothale said | December 9th 2009 @ 3:55am | Report comment
Eh – Ireland, France, Wales, England, Scotland, Italy – that would be 6 out of the ten tier one countries, and there are plenty more semi-professional teams in Canada, US, Romania, etc.
And your point is?
BN – “besides, Wales, NZ and SA where else is rugby union really that big?”
France and Ireland would be included in that. Even though rugby is the 3rd or 4th sport in Ireland, it has become the fastest growing sport in the last 10 years, and the clubs are oversupplied each season with new kids coming in. In contrast, most people wouldn’t even know what League rugby is, never mind how to play it.
rugbyfuture said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
and japan and the states are actually decent
CraigB said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:02am | Report comment
“Most AFL games outdrew the Barbarians game every weekend of the year. So what?” FAIL – Average AFL crowd in 2009 was just under 38K. Even Collingwood who have the most blockbuster all vic games etc average 57K.
If your making claims to prove a point, maybe look them up.
Barking Glider said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:40am | Report comment
It’s true! AFL is played in front of 80K crowds every week. I’ve read it over and over on the Roar.
Pippinu said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:48am | Report comment
During the 2009 season, the AFL had 14 home and away games in excess of 61,000, that’s excluding the nine finals.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Australian_football_code_crowds
Barking Glider said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:56am | Report comment
See.
AFL is sixteen times a better spectacle and more meaningul than a Barbarians game.
A Barbarians game is 4 times a better spectacle then a London NRL international.
Comparing codes with mathematics is much more precise.
CraigB said | December 7th 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
correct 14 out of the 185 played. Hardly considered most…
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/attendances
Onceinawhile said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:56am | Report comment
Yeh uneccessary dig Spiro, an article about rugby should remain about rugby, can’t complain about the leaguies if you let them off the chain!
oikee said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:18am | Report comment
Dont let the dogs off our chains Spiro.
Still think the game of the season was NZ, Kanga’s at the stoop, 12 and half thousand, classic. 
12,500 happy customers.
Mr cheese said | December 7th 2009 @ 11:32am | Report comment
Oikster,
a lot of those customers were wearing hats. It was too cold for em.
Il faisait froid !!!
( as always in England )
Spiro Zavos said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:21am | Report comment
Brendon Leonard my apologies. This is the second time I’ve put him in the front row. There seems to be something of a lapse of mind when i try to write down his name, although I reckon the long-serving England prop would have made a better job of off-loading for an inevitable New Zealand when the All Blacks halfback tried to run over Bryan Habana.
As for the the rugby league match, mea culpa for getting the teams wrong, they all seem to play the same way way in my mind (only joking!).
My point was directed not to the rugby league supporters but to rugby union people who have deplored like me some of the brain dead rugby we’ve had to see this season, the ‘what’s wrong with rugby’ syndrome. And the point is that predictions about the death of the game are very premature. It still draws huge crowds to big matches in Europe. But hopefully, as I foreshadowed at the end, the Australian Super 14 sides will start playing some real rugby next season.
Sam el Perro said | December 7th 2009 @ 8:58am | Report comment
“And the point is that predictions about the death of the game are very premature…”
Indeed they are. Predictions of the death of rugby, league, Aussie Rules, Test cricket, the A-league etc are all premature. So too are predictions of the complete universal domination of rugby, league, Aussie rules etc to the detriment of all other sports.
Rugby is in a bit of a doldrum given the way it is being played. In a couple of years no one will remember the column inches that have been wasted discussing its imminent demise. Last week Test cricket was dead because the Windies were smashed at the Gabba. This week it’s looking alright in Adelaide. Next year the AFL will be boring. Or league. Or something.
Ultimately, however, all of these sports have been around for a long time. And will continue to be. Take them all on their respective merits.
As for comparing crowds, as any reader of forums where the popularity of different sports are discussed, they can be twisted to mean anything you want. League followers could argue that 76,000 watched the Challenge Cup final in London in August while the European Challenge Cup final at the Stoop in May only attracted 9,000. The comparison is completely meaningless and false, naturally, but throwaway stats usualy only serve to inflame, not inform.
King of the Gorganites said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:43am | Report comment
By the European Challenge Cup your referring to the 2nd tier RU European championship? The heinken cup is the pinnancle and finals (and semi’s are palyed infront of packed houses). 80K at the croker to watch munster v leniester in a semi. previous year when Munster played the final in cardiff, 70K of irish men flocked to cardiff (most without tickets).
Sam el Perro said | December 7th 2009 @ 11:54am | Report comment
Yes, I was.
As I said above, “[t]he comparison is completely meaningless and false, naturally, but throwaway stats usualy only serve to inflame, not inform”.
King of the Gorganites said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
it informs when it relates to the populatirty of one code over another
M1tch said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
hows this a a stat..the 12 Wallabies test matches before the spring tour were outrated by the 3 State of Origin matches..
Billo said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
For those of us who love rugby, but also take an interest in league, there is a serious point that’s worth making.
When rugby is played by the Barbarians as an exhibition game, it’s always a game with movement and clear examples of artistry. But these days, as often as not, when you have two highly competitive teams playing against each other, the skill and artistry are cancelled out, and the game often becomes a grind.
This is important, because any sport should show off the skills of its greatest exponents at the very highest level. It happens with most other sports, but not so often with rugby.
The Four Nations final, for example, had some wonderful skills and brilliant invention.
Rugby league, despite its critics, seems to be getting it right more often than rugby.
rugbyfanatic said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Hi Spiro,
I just wanted to make a comment on your article a few days ago regarding the apparent request of some senior Wallaby players demanding payment for a match playing with Australia A next year. I can’t seem to find it on the website anywhere?
I believe this Australia A match was included for the Waratah’s season pass holders. However, I believe this match was cancelled and the Tahs were trying to replace it with a Possibles v Probables. If they didn’t replace this match, the Waratahs would have had to refund the $50 or so to each season pass holder.
Through the pure greed of the Waratahs, they did not want to refund this money so came up with another rep match to replace it. Hence my point.
Why should any of these Wallabies be expected to play in any match that is simply so the Waratahs don’t lose any revenue?
If this is true, why would you run an article that is way off the mark? Granted, I didn’t read the whole article as I was going to read the rest the following day but the article disapperared. From what I read, I was horrified and disgusted to think any Wallaby would demand money to don the gold jersey. I would have suggested they be suspended from Wallaby duties for a period. Who wants a player in the Wallabies jumper who is only in it for the money?
I hope you can prove me wrong.
p.s I love The Possibles v The Probables match. Another golden nugget from Robbie Deans across the Tasman.
Mr cheese said | December 7th 2009 @ 11:26am | Report comment
Sprio,
do you ever read Eddie Butler in The Observer ??
A couple of weeks back, he said that the 6 Nations is “crap, but at least it’s OUR crap”.
As an Englishman, I watch the 6 N every year. Let’s be honest, though: most of the time, the identity of the competition is far stronger than the entertainment on show.
Scotland, as you have pointed out in a previous article, is uninterested in rugby. The Italians don’t quite put it alongside football.
People will watch egg-chasing in much the same way as they watch The Oxford v Cambridge boat race: happily, knowing that it means they’re part of the middle class.
In England, you see, class still matters.
Vive l’ovalie ! Long live rugby !
M1tch said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
lol..the four nations final was in Leeds, how many straws are you clutching at these days.
Temba said | December 7th 2009 @ 8:14am | Report comment
I enjoyed the baa-baas game and I agree that rugby union has been a bit dull but I have a feeling its all going to change in 09. Sorry to league you will have to keep relying on bent stats to make it sound like ground is being made.
Nice work Spiro having a shot at the Saffa’s and League in one article… are you aiming for a record response? I am going to miss your Monday morning stirrup… until feb at least.
Well done, season is over, it’s been a season of mixed emotions, all in all good year for the roar… keep up the good work.
See you guys in 2010 for the last S14 ever… there is something brewing in Melbourne… come the Rebels or what every they are calling them selves. 5 superstar players and a proper coach (maybe Nick Mallet) will see them blow the storm out to sea.
Bay35Pablo said | December 7th 2009 @ 8:25am | Report comment
“five-eighths”/ Which position is that Spiro? Are you calling Donald a half pint?
PastHisBest said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:42am | Report comment
Noice.
To me Donald does seem to have the coordination of a giraffe with Parkinson’s disease. He has definitely made the most of his talent.
Sam Taulelei said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:15am | Report comment
2009 draws to a close and within a month players and coaches will begin preparation for the last Super 14 competition.
Unless coaches and players have analysed and identified why they played poorly, where they went wrong and created different strategies and setplays to create space then who’s to say that 2010 will be any different to this year? The meeting on Thursday by Australian coaches to be told by their boss they have to lift their performances is a fait accompli – we could have all told them that. But how they do it will be what we’ll be watching for.
Simply heralding in a new year with the prospect of a brighter season is illogical and fanciful to me if nothing changes. We all wait in hope.
Dingbat said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:39am | Report comment
spiro i agree with you that FdP shld have been awarded IRB player of the year ahead of mccall.
pothale said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:51am | Report comment
McCall? Who’s he? The Equalizer? Posthumous award for Edward Woodward maybe?
Dingbat said | December 7th 2009 @ 11:01am | Report comment
you didn’t get it pothale!? just trying to emulate spiro, my hero.
King of the Gorganites said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:54am | Report comment
lets face the facts- the RL crowds for the four nations were extremely disappointing. the 12K in london was an embarssment. the game in the heartlands is in major trouble. Wigan could not even sell out a stadium of 25K to watch england v australia. the worst crowd of the lot was the 6K in paris. what a joke. the 4 nations was a finacial disaster for the IRFL. reports suggest crowds were 50% below expectations. the fact is that RL is dieing internationally.
yes rugby is having its problems at present, but that is starting to change as teams have finally realised that to beat the likes of the boks you have to keep ball in hand. 2010 will see a vast improvement.
RL constantly loves to put RU down. RU can fight back with its strongest weapon- its poularity. lets discuss some of the more impressive crowds during the autumn internationals…..
80K in milan= what more can u say. the game is intaly is growing enourmously.
80K in Dublin
60K on a friday night in cardiff against samoa. the welsh are truly the greatest supporters in the world. they sold out the game against the aussies.
sell outs in….. toulouse, marseille, london,
hue crowds in edinburgh, paris (oncew again 50K+ for a game against samoa).
leaguies should stick to the heartlands and not delude themselves about there ‘international game’
did any one see the 70+K in paris on the weekend for stade francais v bayonne. i note that is a club game. the game in france is growing at an incredible rate.
The Link said | December 7th 2009 @ 11:57am | Report comment
Who’s saying that RL is bigger than RU internationally?
The bleating of RU fans about their global game is hilarious, if I want a global game I watch football, RU is a minor international sport.
rugbyfuture said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
but we’re talking about the international contact code
oikee said | December 7th 2009 @ 11:32am | Report comment
Well according to the RLIF, they made a profit from the 4 nations. You see its t/v deals making rugby league profit, and will continue to do so, and those crowds in these big countries are off-set by league crowds in OZ. 78 thousand game 1 origin, 52500 game 2, 73 thousand game 3, 75 thousand semi, 80 thousand final, expanding into NZ next year to catch all the diss-gruntled Kiwis, Sold out Indigenous game. And dont forget, our international game has only stated to take roots again, but this time we are doing it right.
These guys have been shown the future, after the 7’s which is popular now, next step after this, Rugby league. And thats why Union 15 aside wont survive, to much gap their for future t/v audience, ? you cant go from excitement to dull.??? True.
Give us 5 years, we will see where our crowds are, but more importantly, our ratings, thats where the money is,. America is our market now, not europe,. We can get 10 times the people watching league with 1 market, and trust me, we are playing that market hard, harder than you could ever imagine, we know what it is worth to us and rugby,,. Game on, we are playing hardball, not handball.
I think we all would be happy to say 1 thing, a commission will nearly see union off in OZ, then we will see where our international game is travelling.
I will repeat myself, a 12,500 crowd at the stoop was the most entertaining game of the year, and this game put union under immense pressure, yes you got the crowds, but rugby league won the people’s minds, and they want to be where oz and NZ are, in heaven. Light-years ahead. We only need Gasnier and SBW back, and we will have all the stars playing rugby league again, wonder why, ask yourself why. Must be something bubbling away somewhere.
Fred said | December 8th 2009 @ 12:01am | Report comment
How did rugby league win the peoples minds when nobody saw it? There were probably as many people in Croke Park last Satruday week to see Ireland v the Boks as there were at the entire 4 nations.
By the way if you ran a poll on Grafton Street in Dublin and asked them who Greg Inglis, Jonathan Thurston or Billy Slater are? Well nobody would have a rashers and probably never will unless one of them signs for Leinster. This is of course is a terrible shame as they are wonderful players.
Springs said | December 7th 2009 @ 11:33am | Report comment
King, SHUT UP about the crowds already, you bring it up on every comment. Where the hell did you get the reports about the crowds? 50% below expectations? The hghest average crowd possible was ~21,500. The average crowd was ~16,700. RL is far from dying internationally, in fact it is growing internationally. That 61,000 was 4 times bigger than England Vs Australia in London, what? England played Australia in Wigan and Leeds, the crowds were 23,000 and 31,000, 61,000 is not four times the amount of either of these.
oikee said | December 7th 2009 @ 11:36am | Report comment
One more thing, if rugby union ever, EVER drops 2 players, rugby league has won. 13 on 13, hey, we told you so over 100 years ago.
pothale said | December 7th 2009 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
And if league, ever, ever add two players – they can close down. Rugby already exists as a 15 man game.
oikee said | December 7th 2009 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
We only recently trialled 11 players Pothale, dont think we will ever trail 15. But hopefully you can see my point between 7’s and 15? To much of a gap between excitement, and what you have. Anyhow, while crowds are up, your a happy man.
King of the Gorganites said | December 7th 2009 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
RU is the olypic sport. not RL. sad to think RL will never be an international game.
what more proof do u need about the power of RU then its olympic inclusion?
oikee said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
Very good, i now rate rugby union right up their with Hockey, another olympic sport.
rugbyfuture said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
hockey is actually very popular around the world and especially in australia
King of the Gorganites said | December 7th 2009 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
lame response. soccer is an olympic sport because it is popular globally. rugby was introduced to the olmpics because it is popular globally. they have added sports like rugby to add some exctiement to the olmypics.
Barking Glider said | December 7th 2009 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
Yes, you got that right – the IOC added a sport “like rugby” but not rugby. They added some “party 7s” game, not RU.
Shahsan said | December 7th 2009 @ 2:57pm | Report comment
It IS rugby union, in sevens form. all the rules are exactly the same.
The party part comes only from the spectators. The event itself is pretty tough and exacting on the players.
95% of sports watchers cannot watch sport without drinking, so an event lasting for 9 hours each over 2 days would definitely degenerate into a drinking party. But it doesnt mean the sport itself is less serious.
King of the Gorganites said | December 7th 2009 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
how can you honestly say the crowds for the 4 nations were successful? as a RL/RU fan i was very disappointed about the crowd at wigan. paris was even worse.
when you talk about big crowds you have to purely rely on SOS, semis or the final, ESL final and challenge cup. besides that you have no other big crowds. u get no big crowds for regular games (though brisbane does attract healthy crowds). compare this to french RU. stade francais has 5 games a year at 70K+. toulon took a game to marseille and got 55K. bayonne and biarritz have moved games to the spanish basque country in order to accomodate the demand. stade is taking a game to belgium! and its just not france. the UK have been moving to big crowd pulling blockbusters. saracens got 45K to open the year at wembley. they got the same again when they played SA (on a tuesday!). shall i go on?
our game isnt perfect, but no one has claimed it is. we have to keep imporving it. leaguiues, howver, love to claim they have the best product and rugby is rubbish. however, crowds dont lie.
oikee- you have been goin on about the US for a long time, yet i see no prove of your claims. USA rugby, however, goes from strength to strength, having qaulified for 2011 WC.
when england played argentina during June this year, the argentina home game was moved to Old Trafford. It was a cold day in yorkshire, and the top england players were on lions duty. regardless, 55K turned up to the game. this is league heartland, yet a second string england RU team can draw twice as much to an international then there RL equilvants. says a lot i think.
Springs said | December 7th 2009 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
You are just too hypocritical. You said at the start of the post you were a RL/RU fan, then said Union is ‘our’ game, and referred to League fans as Leaguiues, when you just stated you were a RL fan. In other posts you have referred to the NRL as ‘our’ game, while bagging out League internationally in the next post.
50,000 for the League double header two days after Origin III I would count as a big crowd. 41,000 for El Masri’s farewell. The season-opening double headers also drew big crowds. 104,000 in ‘99. Broncos vs Cowboys, 45-50,000 every year. Broncos vs Titans, Dragons also got 40,000+.
Top 14 is mostly played in stadiums that are smaller than Super League’s, and averages about 10,000. And England got 55k at Old Trafford? In the 2000 WC, which was a disaster, England played terrible, Australia played New Zealand in the final, public interest was very low, and the game still got 44k, definitely 50k+ if England were playing.
oikee said | December 7th 2009 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
I keep telling you, crowds have nothing to do with it, that 12 thousand crowd was the best, most excited i seen all year. Passion oozing with the pop.
T/V dollars, we are fighting at the BoX, same way we fight AFL. The BoX never lies. Crowds do. You will find out the power of the box, next rugby league t/v deal. Rugby union will be lucky to see off netball or even hockey in oz, i watched hockey the other day. Very good game, and T/V friendly. Spain Verse England,, and OZ verse Germany, Surprised how good these games were for t/v. Soccer is the next big market. They might even knock the AFL for a six.
PastHisBest said | December 7th 2009 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
“Soccer is the next big market. They might even knock the AFL for a six.”
Not with the A-League product they won’t.
oikee said | December 7th 2009 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
Everyone likes to feel wanted, is all it say’s to me. Rugby is big bussiness, and rugby league is looking to take that bussiness from you.
We might have 6 thousand crowds this year, but if we double that next year, i will do you a comparission then. 
Cheers,
dont forget, rugby league is coming home next year, you have the North, cold, wet nothing to do, we have the south, exciting fast and full of life. See you next year.
King of the Gorganites said | December 7th 2009 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
springs- that is simply semantics. RL is still my game, but i feel like RL made me chose between RU and RL. i chose RU, however, i still have a sfot spot for RL.
the crowds u used to back up your claims were crowds i had already mentioned. they all seem to involve the broncos. i conceded that they do get good crowds (not massive though, which i consider 60K plus to be massive). el magic’s farewell game was well attended and rightfully so. as for double headers and opening games- your going back a long way there.
the french 14 is currently played in some small stadiums. thats why they move it to bigger stadiums and are building new stadiums. the game has grown that much they need bigger stadiums. crowds are gorwing, as for the ESL crowds are shrinking. u cant hide from that one.
if you cant sell out a WC final then your in trouble. u failed to explain why a second string english RU side, played in RL heartland got over double the crowd an engish RL team got! try to explain that one. and dont tell me its because the english RL has not been performing. the english RU team has also been underperforming but didnt stop them getting 55K in Manchester.
Springs said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
ESL crowds have grown every year. The average was down this year for the first time since the comp started only because of two extra teams, both of whom aren’t big crowd pullers. I have stated this on numerous other posts (usually as a response to you). If 60K+ is massive then only Bulldogs/Rabbitohs matches can have massive crowds. If all good League crowds involve the Broncos then all good French RU crowds involve Stade Francais.
Firstly, Old Trafford is 3 times larger than DW. Manchester is soccer-mad, RL does not have that much prescence in Manchester or Liverpool. And also, RU is more popular than RL in England.
King of the Gorganites said | December 7th 2009 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
ha trying to say that Manchester isnt in the middle of RL heartland? i know the city is soccer mad. all of the country is. but that still doesnt explain why RU can get bigger crowds in the RL heartland.
Springs said | December 7th 2009 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
Fine. ESL Final, only game in Manchester all year, 63K. 2008, 68K. 2007, 72K. All bigger than 55K. Manchester does not even have a League side. Soccer has two very popular teams in Manchester. The last League test in Manchester was in 2004 and drew 38K to the City of Manchester Stadium.
King of the Gorganites said | December 10th 2009 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
still RU gets bigger crowds in leagues ‘heartlands’
Rod said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
King, there’s a few things I’d like to call you but I won’t, I hope you get the picture, no ones interested in your ridiculous Bulldust.
And Spiro has been attacking RL all his life, Leopards don’t change their spots so I don’t know why anyone here would give a damn what he writes about the game as he gets it wrong everytime, just like RL players are all draft dodgers remember?
M1tch said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
Its funny how a rugby article has to take a jibe at League..perhaps inferior product reflects with inferior writers
PastHisBest said | December 7th 2009 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
Hang on second!! That’s rich! You can’t even spell ‘Mitch’!
JimC said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
King of the Gorganites bores us all again with his drivel
Barbarians games used to sell out Twickenham. Not anymore it seems.
Rugby union is bound to have a better year in 2010 but ultimately they need to cut the numer of test matches. It’s become a devalued product.
King of the Gorganites said | December 7th 2009 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
ha thats rich. trying to claim that 63K is a poor crowd?
twickenham use to hold 60K. its only recently increaded to 70K and now 80K.
did u see the 80K sell out in milan, or the 3 sell outs at twickenham. dont suggest for one mintue that the barbarians is not a crowd puller.
Barking Glider said | December 7th 2009 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
I can’t wait until you go head to head with some of the AFL zealots on the Roar!
rugbyfuture said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
here’s to the future of rugby
Shahsan said | December 7th 2009 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
Sprio, You’re just testing to see if any leaugies read your articles, aren’t you?
It’s like when Stephen Jones writes about New Zealand as a country or about South African props.
Mike G said | December 7th 2009 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
Perhaps the League supporters are stretching things a little by comparing double header NRL games v stand alone RU club games in France????
It’s true this yr has been terrible (for the most part), in terms of a lack of entertainment value from RU, but these things are cyclical…Agree with previous posts therefore, that heading into season 2010 & the World Cup year, we will see more of a running game in the S14/Tri Nations…as coaches now see the value in running the ball (Wallabies v Wales & AB’s v France prime examples), to ensure victories.
It’s a oldy but a goodie – A great game of rugby will ALWAYS beat a great game of RL…Why? Because there is always a CONSTANT battle for possession.
There, my 2 cents!
Mike
DCR said | December 7th 2009 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
It is timely to review the RU year and imagine what O’Neill and his cohorts will make of 2009. They have all the financial details, data, stats and media feedback to help them. I’m not sure 2009 was a horrible year. It was not a 1999 but 2007-8 were probably worse, with the exception of the Waratah performance in 2008. The 2009 Wallabies are better. But they need to improve to win major trophies. We will never have the depth of NZ or RSA. But as the 1999-2002 teams showed 15-18 good or great players with a good or great coach can win a lot of trophies. So let’s begin with the set pieces. The scrum was a huge improvement. The lineout without Vickerman struggled. Sharpe was missed in the UK. The kickoff’s were poor. Around the field Genia has been a huge improvement and a great half is worth his weight in gold. The defense was about the same. The kicking game was weak and unacceptable. Counterattacking was extremely poor. The breakdown was inconsistent or poor. Mentally we were very fragile. We couldn’t back up after the narrow loss to NZ at home and we could not last 80 minutes against NZ in any of the four games, we switched off when the NZ away game was lost, we freeze when in the attacking third against NZ/RSA and we couldn’t nail Scotland when dominant. Our on-field leadership was weak. Deans seems to be addressing most if not all these issues. We have a new captain and many new, young, talented players. No matter how much the media seem to hate it the main area of attention to me seems to involve kicking. We kick in counter attack when we shouldn’t. We kick poorly when in good attacking positions. Our field kicking for position is weak. Our high balls are weak compared to the RSA teams, poorly directed and poorly chased. Our catching of kicks is, well, pathetic. And noone knows how to kick a drop goal.
Kicking is extremely important and we are fools to ignore it or wish it away. Anyone who watches the Boks or the Bulls kick will know how attacking a weapon it can be. Whilst I don’t advocate a 10 man game. I don’t see kicking as the problem for rugby. More about that later.
So overall the Wallabies have arrested the decline but have some more steps upwards to make.
The Super teams were mixed to disappointing. The Waratahs went backwards after sacking McKenzie and needing Beale to return from injury. The administrators replaced a professional coach with an amateur and surprise, surprise we got amateur results. To the players’ credit they almost rescued a semifinal place with three tremendous victories in RSA. Let’s hope Hickey has learnt from his mistakes. Everyone deserves another chance and so does he. It will be tougher in 2010 with the harder draw and key players returning from injury. But that’s life.
The Force were great. They had player problems at the start of the year, crap press, some narrow early losses and injuries. Yet they stayed in the mix until the last couple of rounds. They won all the Australian derbies and unearthed and developed some very good young players. More power to Mitchell and his team. Keep it up.
The hangover continued at the Brumbies. Their old guard are gone, injury prone or old. The RSA teams have finally figured out how to stop the free-wheeling style. They did stop the rot against the Waratahs and won. But they will need more grunt and consistency to match their skillful, high tempo, wide playing style. Let’s hope the hangover has finally ended and they can get back to basics. The don’t have a Stephen Larkham, Owen Finegan and fit Mortlock to cover their cracks and shortcomings any more. Elsom is back and their pack is full of Wallabies. So one can expect better results next year. It will be very interesting to see how Giteau plays.
The sick patient has been the Reds. They had reasonable backs but nothing up front. They have appointed a good coach. They have good halves. But they need a pack. We just don’t have enough players in positions 1 to 5 to go around, it seems. So it’s off to the schools and clubs in Queensland to build up the stocks. I wonder if the ARU are set up to do that thankless job.
Overall, our Super teams underperformed, except the Force. Friend and Hickey are under extra close scrutiny. How they go in 2010 will set up the whole show for 2011, (five Super teams and a World Cup). Overall, I’m quietly confident that the six months Deans has had with Wallabies will filter in to Super teams. We have two good coaches and two who could go either way. All the issues with the Wallabies apply to the Super teams.
Finally for 2009 I have a word on kicking and ugly rugby. Firstly, in my opinion kicking is not the problem. The bigger blights on rugby are: scrum resets and poor refereeing. Both deprive the spectator of the ball being in play. Kicking does not mean the ball is out of play. What can be done about scrum resets? Here are some suggestions: shorter instructions to pack, not engage, no reward or punishment for screwing a scrum, after a collapse or two take the loose forwards off the scrum and put them in a restricted zone behind it until the ball is out of the scrum, have a second referee to watch both sides of the scrum, give the non-offending team the option to start play again from a knock on with a lineout not a scrum, or if there are more than 10 resets in a half start docking the front rowers their pay.
The other issue is crap pedantic referees. As far as I can see the southern hemisphere referees have become the pedants and the better refs are in the north. So bring the better referees down here for our winter. Maybe we need two refs, but I don’t think so, we just need better ones who allow the players to play, but still keep a lid on their aggression. The ELV that allowed the ref to blow a short arm penalty for a ruck infringement may need to be reconsidered. Whether the northern unions will allow that is unlikely. So it is a matter of the ref allowing play to go on especially at the breakdown with more rucking allowed, ie. feet on bodies but not heads, and accruing faults with the threat of yellow cards for repeat offenders instead of repeated penalties.
Now it is back to work, the office, the whatever to save the small fortune it takes to follow rugby.
AndyS said | December 7th 2009 @ 5:21pm | Report comment
One thing I do hope to see is the return of Australia A next year. Even if they don’t play the PNC, they should be looking to get national teams like the Jaguars, US, Canada, Japan, Georgia etc over here to tour against the provinces and Aus A. Play the matches in the locations deprived of Tests, promote the matches and reintroduce the party spirit to it all.
Brendan said | December 7th 2009 @ 5:47pm | Report comment
BN
Above you state “and maybe South Africa”, that’s a joke right??? The currie Cup competition is hugely popular over here as is every other comp, including inernational’s Super 14 sevens etc. Most of money generated by SANZAR from their deal with Murdoch comes from South Africa because of the higher TV audience, relative to Aus and NZ.
Let me enlighten you on another little fact: When Argentina play a test match at home in BA they get upwards of 90 000 spectators packing out the stadium they play in and have done so for many years now.
In Ireland interest in rugby has grown exponetionally over the years. Proof: ever tried to get a ticket to see Munster play at their Thomond Park ground, a virtual impossibility unless you’re a local. You obviously didn’t see the Leinster v Munster Heineken Cup match played in Dublin back in May, another full house.
Rugby in Italy is also growing while interest in Spain is also on the up reflected by the TV viewer numbers, in Spain, during the last World Cup (a good reason why Argentina should join the 6 nations and be based in Spain)
rugbyfuture said | December 7th 2009 @ 10:17pm | Report comment
argentina shouldnt be based in spain at all, spain are on the up n up on there own and argentina can be much better in the sanzar club if they get a proffesional structure in place
bever fever said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
I really dont follow either code but the start of this article was surely meant to inflame code wars with the league people.
Dave Glesson said | December 7th 2009 @ 10:08pm | Report comment
The name Spiro Zavos is pretty much a swear word on Mungoball sites like League Unlimited along with Welsh rugby journo, Stephen Jones. and Peter Fitzsimons. You would think the fans of the tawdry rugby code would have thicker skin given the incorrigible culture within the Greatest Furphy.
LeftArmSpinner said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Spiro, it was a season that ended on a higher note when you made the assessment. Sadly, the young conductor had mixed up the pages his musical scores. In the middle of his performance of Beethoven, the budding Conductor suddenly slipped into Motley Crue. The Orchestra’s gears immediately began to grind and the performance came to an abrupt and sudden halt.
Claiming that he doesn’t remember much about the latter is hardly a defence. After all, surely he can simply sort a few pages of a score into the right order. Alternatively, he may just drop all involvement in Motley Crue and all things UN-beethoven!!!
Cooper-stay off the piss!!!!
Who Needs Melon said | December 8th 2009 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Spiro!
I think you have cheekily snuck in a range of controversial topics guaranteed to bait some and draw as many comments as possible:
1) Comparison between League and Union
2) The ranking of teams internationally
3) Springboks playing boring rugby
4) Giteau mentioned in the same sentence as Carter
5) The role of JON and Deans in directing the Super 14 coaches
If only you could have also snuck in:
6) The difference between NH and SH rugby,
7) The ELVs and changing the laws.
I’m sure I’ve left out a few more controversial topics. The role of ‘fabricated teams’ (Melbourne, Barbarians)?
King of the Gorganites said | December 8th 2009 @ 7:59pm | Report comment
i believe the 6K in paris says it all…..
in france is the 4th biggest RL playing nation then the game is in trouble.
in RU italia isnt even in the top 10 but still gets record crowds (including 80K in milan). makes u think doesnt it
MyGeneration said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:13pm | Report comment
Makes you think why are Rugby Union writers obsessed with Rugby League crowds.
JF said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:21pm | Report comment
I agree – this is just a pure cheap shot at RL, however RU supporters do grow tired of the constant claims of RL supporters that their game is taking areas of the world by storm, and generally overstating their international presence. RU has many of its own problems to deal with, taking shots at RL will only bring greater attention to these problems.
MyGeneration said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:30pm | Report comment
I wouldn’t say it’s constant. There are one or two on this site, but I’m a bit disappointed when someone like Spiro takes cheap shots and can’t even get his facts right. However, Aussie RU supporters like to emphasise the international issue because of the game’s relative weakness domestically. Be that as it may, RL does have an international calendar, and it doesn’t have to justify itself against RU.
JF said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:20pm | Report comment
Yes, RU writers do like to emphasise the international issue – it is their chance to land some blows on the RL folk for once, some people just can’t resist.
David Gleason said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:11pm | Report comment
MyGen, do you also believe like many a Mungo that Vichy caused pemanent, incalculable damage to Rugby Lite despite it’s demise on the international scene till the late 70s?
Nice Zappa avatar btw
MyGeneration said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:43pm | Report comment
David G, it probably can be calculated but I’m not sure that it matters, ‘Mungo’ and ‘Rugby Lite’ = more cheap shots (sigh), I’m not sure what you mean by “despite it’s demise on the international scene till the late 70s”, and thanks.
Springs said | December 9th 2009 @ 2:44pm | Report comment
It doesn’t say anything. The 12K in Toulouse and the conisistent good crowds in Perpignan are better representationsof League in France. Not very big but building,
damo said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:12pm | Report comment
For a game that doesn’t have to justify itself there’s a lot of justifying going on. I like league. I love rugby.
mungoboy said | December 8th 2009 @ 11:23pm | Report comment
well well spiro, the wobblies had another disapointing year, rugby is dead in its arse in Australia, rugby lee is taking over Australia and will have a bigger international scene than union in 20 years time, inc. an NRL team in South Africa in 12 years time. cheers
Rin said | December 9th 2009 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
Ha ha rugby league in SA, mate be serious, you must be on something, there is more chance of Tiger Woods being faithful than that.
JF said | December 9th 2009 @ 7:04pm | Report comment
In other European RL expansion news, Celtic Crusaders have been forced to base themselves in Wrexham in the north of Wales after failing to secure a home in the south for next season, the ‘expansion’ club will now be located 32 miles from Widnes, RL heartland in the north of England. Harlequins, the sole London Super League club attracted an average crowd of less than 3,500 last season.
Maybe want to adjust your forecasting Mungoboy.
M1tch said | December 9th 2009 @ 7:21pm | Report comment
good to see you upto date with League news
btw what does ESL news have to do about a league team in Sth Africa?
JF said | December 9th 2009 @ 7:44pm | Report comment
Just responding to the comment that “(RL) will have a bigger international scene than union in 20 years time”
This also helps to reinforce my earlier point that RU writers will stop taking cheap shots at internation RL crowds when RL writers stop overstating their international presence.
M1tch said | December 9th 2009 @ 7:52pm | Report comment
we both want what eachother has…we (league people) want a big international scene…union people want a big domestic scene..
the code jibes wont stop..I enjoy it
JF said | December 9th 2009 @ 8:02pm | Report comment
Long live pointless arguments about football codes !
Shahsan said | December 9th 2009 @ 8:06pm | Report comment
Nothing wrong with the domestic scene wherever union is popular — except in Australia, where it will never overtake RL and ARF and shouldnt even bother trying.
Australia has succeeded thus far on the smell of an oily rag and should continue on that path. Take care of the top end and wait for the trickle-down effect.