Fear and loathing is ruling Australian sports
Columnist By Adrian Musolino, 8 Dec 2009 Adrian Musolino is a Roar Expert
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AFL CEO Andrew Demetriou addresses the media during an AFL Media Conference at AFL House, Melbourne. Slattery Images
“World Game? What a joke! World Cup? Leave it to the English, Italians and the rest of them,” claimed Albert of Melbourne on the Herald Sun website, one of the thousand plus hateful comments that littered sites across the web following the AFL’s claim that they will lose a season if there was an Australian World Cup.
“AFL vs. the World” declared the News Limited press; appearing to cheerlead the squabble between our national game and the world game.
The corresponding article here on The Roar had over 250 comments before the sun had set.
It was an impeccably timed response from AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou; just as the World Cup draw and Australia’s World Cup bid were in the national spotlight, not to mention at a time when the AFL is in its deep slumber.
The AFL has every right to protect its product, and the fact remains this question surrounding the fate of our national codes during the World Cup was one of the biggest question marks that surrounded an Australian World Cup – a question no one wanted to discuss.
It is an immensely complex issue, and without clear guidelines and expectations from FIFA, there can be no clear solution to the issue at present.
But if we are fighting amongst ourselves so fervently, what chance do we stand against the might of the USA and England?
The fact is if we are to stage the World Cup, it’ll require immense concessions from every other code, made more complex by our suitable stadium shortage, and we must, therefore, work in close cooperation to find suitable solutions, not allowing people to hijack the debate and deal in absolutes.
This is only the start. If such extremity continues, how are we going to find a workable solution so all codes can be accommodated?
With each such statement from Demetriou or the like, Australia’s World Cup bid – which was always going to be a challenge – appears even more doomed.
Yes, perhaps Demetriou has exaggerated for effect, but what concerns me most is the dogma attached to this debate. Perhaps this was part of Demetriou’s ploy.
Denigrate the very idea of the World Cup by striking fear into the hearts of his games’ followers.
It’s not only this dogmatic rhetoric of “AFL vs. the World” but also the hatred and ethnic division that’s being attached to these World Cup claims.
Jack, another contributor to the aforementioned Herald Sun article, wrote when putting his case as to why the AFL shouldn’t cave in to FIFA: “Yes it will upset a lot of immigrants, however if you chose to live in this country, its traditions and sport come with the package.”
How very sad there are people who still think like that.
If so many of us ‘sports fans’ are going to denigrate the World Cup – with feelings of bitterness, hatred and contempt – then are we truly deserving host’s of a tournament revered around the world?
Amongst the bitterness and hatred lies one query.
Where has the enthusiasm that greeted the build up to the Sydney Olympics gone?
Arguably, on television ratings and economic worth alone, the FIFA World Cup would be a greater benefactor to Australia – certainly in terms of showcasing Australia to a global audience once again.
Would AFL fans be unable to join in the celebrations of our World Cup? Do the Socceroos not belong to them, too?
For all the protestation and arguing, remember they are two great sports that can co-exist, and there are many who love them both.
The World Cup doesn’t represent an ‘invasion’ – and awful phrase that has been thrown up with its racial overtones – and AFL fans shouldn’t fear its game will be starved by football. And that flawed reasoning can be the only explanation for why the World Cup, compared with the Olympics, is creating such angst.
Commonsense needs to come to the fore here.
What strikes me most in this debate is how insular and one-dimensional Australian society has become – and sport is a microcosm of society.
Despite the huge strides made in our multicultural land, ethnicity and race are still used as fodder in many of the flawed arguments for why ‘soccer’ is not an Australian game. We seem to be unable to deal with such issues with logic, compromise and acceptance, rather so many resort to absolutes – black or white, yes or no.
Dogma and fear are tarnishing Australia’s chances of hosting the world’s biggest sporting event.
Sadly, we have become the new America: introverted and overly protective.
Recommend this story.
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December 8th 2009 @ 8:24am
Ben said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:24am | Report comment
I dont know what the problem is. AFL and rugby league just start a month earlier, bin the crappy pre season cup (Richmond will never win it anyway) for the year. the WC runs for just over 4 weeks. if both AFL and RL promote themselves while all the toursits are here, and see packed stadiums of passionate supporters for a very local game (in AFL’s case) they have a better chance of promoting there sport to a new audience.
I can’t believe sports supporters that are on this site don’t want the WC. It is by fair the biggest sport event in the world. And we all should be proud of hosting it (if we get it at all)
December 8th 2009 @ 8:33am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Ben
if the MCG is unavailable for 16 weeks – then it’s a problem – a very big one – for which the AFL will need to be compensated handsomely.
Etihad has already said no to the FFA – they are a separate privately owned organisation -nothing to do with the AFL – for them it’s a simple financial reason – they will lose stacks of money handing over the ground to FIFA.
Does anyone on the Roar understand commercial law???
December 8th 2009 @ 10:17am
albatross said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
>>Does anyone on the Roar understand commercial law???
Probably nobody does anywhere. That is why most commercial law lawyers are so filthy rich – it’s even more arcane than canon law and stuff like “mental reservation” is entirely acceptable behavior.
The big risks for the AFL are:
1) that it may be seen as a big bully by an Australian public most of whom never attend any sporting event of any kind but who have probably have heard of the football WC
2) the Federal government wants the football WC badly – may be so badly that it will legislate the football WC is some sort of security priority like a US preznit’s visit or World Roman Catholic Yoof Day (which was of even less relevance to Australians and the world. and for which NSW taxpayers are still out of pocket to the tune of a cool $100 mill.) and take control of the stadiums for the duration.
I am not suggesting this latter is a good thing btw.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:27am
Ken said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:27am | Report comment
I think what you are saying is pretty much commensense re: the NRL and AFL seasons starting a bit earlier, finishing a bit later and having a break during the 4 weeks of the WC tournament itself. I think this is the type of compromise that Gallop and Demetriou are looking for and would agree to. Currently though, the soccer bodies are being very unclear about what they are asking for but just telling them to suck it up and accept it (estimates ranging from 6 – 16 weeks, no confirmation about which stadiums) and not showing any wish to compromise on the anti-competitive clauses that they are trying to enact which would basically mean that the NRL/AFL would have to make themselves invisible during the tournament – so no trying to promote the local codes during the WC.
Pippinu’s point about the commercial positions of the stadiums is well made (although I don’t know why you keep insisting ‘Non-AFL’ people won’t understand…. these concepts do exist outside Victoria) but I feel that these are relatively small stumbling blocks. If the NRL and AFL are onside, then a mutually accepted contract suspension and possibly a small (in the scheme of things) financial compensation will fix any off those concerns.
December 8th 2009 @ 8:24am
tony yeboah said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:24am | Report comment
What i don’t get is that the AFL don’t realise what is to gain from having a World Cup here. I am not even going to comment on AD’s ridiculous scaremongering yesterday. Correct me if i am wrong, but don’t the AFL spend milliions and millions of dollars every year trying to build there code, not only in the northern states, but also overseas. Wouldn’t the fact that TV crews from nearly every country in the world will be coming to Australia for a month, 1 million visitors who surely will have some spare time on there hand will be here. OPPURTUNITY AFL!!!
Reports on the AFL beamed to every country in the world, all of these TV crews love doing pieces on local oddities, and lets face it, with kangaroos and budgie smugglers, what is more unique and foreign to the world than AFL. Host some midweek AFL games all over Australia and promote them to visiting fans from other countries. Sports fans love to visit other stadiums, sports in other countries.
All of this fighting and scaremongering is ridiculous, and that is from all sides of the argument. AD and the AFL needs to get over it’s insecurity complex and see what is to be gained from the World Cup. They could spend tens of millions of dollars and never get the exposure that the WC would bring them. The FFA need to wake up and realise that just hosting the WC is not going to convert everyone and all will fall down on there knees and thank them.
December 8th 2009 @ 8:28am
Redb said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:28am | Report comment
You cannot get a better advertisement for Australian Rules football than a big game on the MCG.
The FFA wont even allow a 50,000 crowd at Etihad.
Your reasoning is flawed. The requirement of both the MCG and Etihad pushes the AFL competition into suburbia and country venues where it will remain an oddity for the world’s media, not the spectacle of an Essendon v Collingwood game with 80,000 fans at the mighty MCG.
Redb
December 8th 2009 @ 8:31am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Tony
it’s about enforcing commercial property rights.
The Government will either have to enact legislation to compulsory acquire them, or hand out an immense compensation package of around $1 billion.
Any other talk is just BS.
December 8th 2009 @ 8:42am
mahony said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Pip, “just compendsation” is the important term in the contitutional case law here – and you may be suprised to learn just how little that is likely to be is previous High Court rullings are anything to go by (indeed they are the only thing to go by in this case). The compensation issues are ‘small fry’ in the broad context of this bid – it will be the least urgent matter from the government’s perspective I can assure you.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:31am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:31am | Report comment
Fine – put the $1 billion on the table and everyone’s happy.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:59am
oikee said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:59am | Report comment
Hey Pip, i dont know where you get your 1 billion from, yesterday you told us the AFL was a 1 billion a year industry, ? So for 2 months, thats about 200 million, no more, Your code is going to be losing numbers by then anyhow, with the golliath that is soccer, maybe the MCG will just be a ghost town.
The sooner the Hearts and Victory start playing out of the MCG the better, 80 thousand screaming fans instead of 50 thousand Cricket supporters will bring that baby to life, keep the seagulls away anyhow. How can a exciting sport have seagulls on the feild? have you ever seen a bird on a soccer feild. ? Maybe a streaker.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:22am
albatross said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:22am | Report comment
>>budgie smugglers
Oh god.. pictures of a somewhat old Tony Abbott PM on a beach somewhere adjacent to Warringah beamed around the world. Won’t somebody think of the children?
December 8th 2009 @ 8:29am
Art Sapphire said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:29am | Report comment
The Copenhagen Summit on global warming was stunned today after it was discovered that any effective carbon reductions made by Australia will be compromised by the hot carbon rich air coming out of AFL HQ in Melbourne.
The Australian delegation in a desperate plea to the international community asked that any discussion regarding a carbon reducing treaty be put on the backburner and for the world to urgently concentrate on how to solve the seemingly intractable issues regarding Australia’s World Cup bid.
The summit was told that in order to save the planet the AFL’s carbon producing PR Hyperbole Machine might have to neutralised.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:28am
Punter said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Brillant, just brillant.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:31am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:31am | Report comment
Buckley is about as credible as a climate scientist working out of East Anglia!!
December 8th 2009 @ 9:36am
Art Sapphire said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
The AFL is as credible as the Exxon PR Machine
In breaking news – the glaciers on Mt Kilamanjaro suddenly vanished yesterday. The Kenya delegation has asked for the UN Security council to convene an urgent meeting where an ultimatum will be sent to Australia.
For the sake of the planet’s security we order you to neutralise the carbon producing AFL Hyperbole Machine or face the military consequences.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:59am
Redb said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Art, I assume your ditching Essendon after this outrageous display of nationalism against the foreign code?
Barassi squeezing a soccer ball on the front cover of the Herald Sun was a nice touch
December 8th 2009 @ 10:02am
AndyRoo said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:02am | Report comment
Why do we have to ditch our clubs just because we dont care if they beat the tigers in August or October as long as they win.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:09am
Art Sapphire said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:09am | Report comment
redb – I see no reason to stop supporting Essendon. I still intend to go to a few games next year and I hope we win another premiership in the next few years. Unlike some sad AFL heads, I don’t think my club or the competition is threatened by the World Cup.
The AFL’s current greatest enemy is itself.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:37am
Redb said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:37am | Report comment
Go Dons!
December 8th 2009 @ 10:25am
KB said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:25am | Report comment
Luckily the Bubble Football stadium has been built above the flood plan… The architects were told of this pending carbon emission from AFL HQ, as a result it will be on firm ground to hold 2018 WC fixtures … Well done lads
December 8th 2009 @ 8:32am
Eamonn said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:32am | Report comment
http://au.fourfourtwo.com/blogs.aspx?CIaBEID=1578
A bit of sense, and it’s come from a football journo, a sports fan with a bit of smarts; in the midst of the rants from a few small minded and parochial AFL fans.
Could there be any benefit for the AFL in a World Cup in Australia?…
Maybe time to think about how AFL can benefit from all these visitors to Australia and AFL heartland. All of them will be sports fans will no nothing of the fear of a few AFL fans to the round ball, and all of them will want to visit AFL stadia, museums, watch a game, buy a St Kilda shirt etc etc…
When would you ever get this opportunity to show your game, give em a ball, a kick on a field etc etc?
Bigger picture required for a few it seems. AFL starting to look a little like a mouse more than the elephant.
December 8th 2009 @ 8:35am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:35am | Report comment
As redb has already said – it’s all BS – unless the visitors can watch Collingwood vs Essendon in front of 90,000 at the MCG – it’s all BS.
December 8th 2009 @ 8:42am
Mr said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:42am | Report comment
It would be ideal for AFL to continue at the MCG and football take the smaller Etihad.
FIFA doesn’t require both. AFL is not a major sport outside of Australia.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:29am
Punter said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:29am | Report comment
AFL is not a major sport in 2 of Australia’s most populas states.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:35am
Redb said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment
Most populous Australian states:
1. NSW
2. Victoria
3. Queensland
4. Western Australia
You are wrong.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:56am
Punter said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:56am | Report comment
In 2 of Australia’s most POPULOUS states, not the the 2 most POPULOUS states. I must learn to spell.
Thanks Redb. I was wrong in my spelling but not in my assumption.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:49am
Ken said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:49am | Report comment
Not sure on your point Redb, AFL is not a major sport in NSW. In a state where 1/3 of the nations population live there is 1 professional team which has mediocre live support, low profile and rates poorly on TV. QLD is better but not significantly, so it’s not a major sport in #1 or #3 states which would seem to back up Punter’s point.
I’m not actually sure what Punter’s point was though because Soccer can’t boast much in any of these markets including Victoria/WA (which of course are nuts about AFL).
December 8th 2009 @ 9:57am
Gatto Nero said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:57am | Report comment
But it happens to be far and away the biggest drawcard in Melbourne, which is the issue here.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:33am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Etihad, a privately owned stadium, has already told the FFA to go jump.
December 10th 2009 @ 5:12pm
Jaredsbro said | December 10th 2009 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
Ah but Pip if Adam Smith’s free market ideals actually worked then you’d be right. However those who promote Free Trade rhetoric tend to be really Protectionist (a la US) and thus Melbourne’s private Stadium should in theory want to support whatever makes money, those protectionist factions who dominate the business community in the Southern Capital however pressure the decision makers of the business to go with what will keep the greatest popularity=most long-term revenue and of course while Melbourne’s AFL mad that will never change.
Money is made by making the wisest decisions not the most popular! And IMO it is wise to support a global behemoth, not just because its a good way to make money but it’s a good way of making more money down the line with extra contacts.
December 8th 2009 @ 8:52am
Beast-A-Tron said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:52am | Report comment
The AFL embraces the WC bid, Andrew just isn’t interested in dropping our trousers to satisfy Eurocentric demands. FIFA demanding exclusivity and near monopoly over Australian sport for a month or two is a disgrace. This is not fear mongering, these are FIFA requirements for hosting the WC, the FFA have even admitted they are currently attempting to get around this snag.
Ah yes the parochial insult (code for tall poppy syndrome) we’ve all heard before, a popular gem amongst the soccer fraternity in Australia & USA. Got anything new or are you still waiting for your latest thesaurus?
December 8th 2009 @ 8:57am
Jeb said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:57am | Report comment
I think you, or the blog you referred to (sorry no time to read), may be overstating any benefits to the afl beyond infrastructure.
For a tourist, watching collingwood at the mcg has about the same relevance as watching kerry play at croke park – a great spectacle yes, but just a spectacle with no further relevance. Kinda like going to the circus. Just my opinion, as this is how I feel as a Queenslander (I cringe when people tell me its the australian game).
December 8th 2009 @ 9:34am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Have you heard of cultural cringe?
Here’s the macqurie definition for you:
a feeling that one’s country’s culture is inferior to that of other countries
December 8th 2009 @ 9:47am
Punter said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:47am | Report comment
We are not sheep in this country Pip, just because AFL is the most popular sport in this country, doesn’t mean we all have to follow it.
We have a right to follow football if we choose & not think we are inferior to other countries.
This cultural cringe thing is as bad as someone using Un-Australian.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:25am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:25am | Report comment
That’s the definition of cultural cringe – I can do no more than quote our very own and respected dictionary.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:24am
albatross said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:24am | Report comment
>>macqurie
Didn’t you look at the spine?
December 8th 2009 @ 2:49pm
Jeb said | December 8th 2009 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
thanks for the lesson Pip, however you’re too quick to use the cringe angle whenever someones looks at AFL and shakes their head. the cringe comes into it because of the hyperbole/melodrama surrounding it and nothing else. To say that something is the australian game is projecting a bit too far when it’s not the game of NSW and Qld. But hey its only my opinion.
December 8th 2009 @ 11:08am
oikee said | December 8th 2009 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Soccer supporters wearing budgie smugglers? That would look nice.
December 8th 2009 @ 8:35am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Does anyone on the Roar (apart from the AFL fans) actually understand commercial law?
December 8th 2009 @ 11:13am
oikee said | December 8th 2009 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Pip, my wife worked in Commercial law in brisbane courts, every one of them, What do you want to know.? She is now working with Union claims, not rugby union,
Union law. Come on, hit me with a question, i will give the the answer within the week. ?
December 8th 2009 @ 12:53pm
Ben C said | December 8th 2009 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
To my great misfortune, I do in fact understand commerical law.
I suspect we are still at the sabre-rattling stage where everyone is trying to stake out a public position before the real negotiations get underway. There is a certain amount of “politicking” and “posturing” from all sides. That said, FFA’s proposals seem a bit thin on details so far. Let’s wait and see what the actual negotiations produce before we get too carried away. It is taking some time but if FFA are dragging the chain, it will only rebound on their position as they are the ‘supplicants’ in this scenario.
Although I rarely don’t care about AFL, I do agree that government intervention would be a very poorly thought out and divisive move and I would hope it doesn’t come to that. I don’t like AFL but I would dislike the government stepping on any sporting code.
December 10th 2009 @ 5:24pm
Jaredsbro said | December 10th 2009 @ 5:24pm | Report comment
Pip it doesn’t take an AFL fan to appreciate the fact that possession is nine tenths of the law and that the law in a bourgoisie Capitalist culture favours contracts. Contracts must be honoured (just ask Sonny Bill Williams). Also you’re thinking about this the wrong way, perhaps Melbourne shouldn’t get the FIFA WC at all. Sydney can share it with Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide if they’re good…:)
December 8th 2009 @ 8:48am
Brian said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:48am | Report comment
For all the claims that the FFA is being secritive, if stadiums were shut for 8 weeks how much revenue would the AFL really lose? Lets take a seasons that starts in the first week of March, does not have a split round and finishes on the 3rd week of October. 3AW & Herlad Sun always tell us Melburnians that Victorians love footy yet now apparently if the grand final is played in October the AFL will lose millions. The AFL draft in December is the biggest event of the month, yet play the GF in October and he wants 1 Billion?
Personally it will take me a very long time to follow Hawthorn again if the despotic AFL ruins our WC chances.
December 8th 2009 @ 8:55am
Redb said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:55am | Report comment
As has been proven time and time again, what Andrew Demetriou says does not effect the passion fans have for their clubs.
December 8th 2009 @ 11:18am
oikee said | December 8th 2009 @ 11:18am | Report comment
Its not the fans of the club you need be worried about, its the youth of this nation, and believe me, you up-set them, the cultured youth, you know, the one’s that have seen the real world, not just Melbourne, and you are playing a very dangerous game my friend. Anyone who has travelled outside Melbourne realises one thing, AFL is a minority sport my good fella, played out in the minds of Victorians, with about what, ? 5 million following, 10 at a push, now look at soccer, followed by billions. Game, set and Match.
December 8th 2009 @ 8:18pm
Alex said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:18pm | Report comment
Billions might be a stretch. Certainly hundreds of millions.
December 9th 2009 @ 5:26am
Gatto Nero said | December 9th 2009 @ 5:26am | Report comment
There are plenty of footy lovers who are well traveled and still love their footy. Silly comment.
December 8th 2009 @ 8:53am
GlenM said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:53am | Report comment
If I were a FIFA delegate, I wouldn’t award Australia any footballing tournament at this stage. All the antagonism. loathing and hatred for the world game there doesn’t warrant it. It’s quite obvious from the current (and what seems ongoing) debate, how isolated in world football terms Australia really is. FIFA obviously take into account the major logistics involved in hosting such a massive event, but they also measure highly a nation’s expressed love and passion for the round ball code. The world’s perception of Australia as a sports loving nation are being challenged now, speaking with mates in UK & Europe we find the backlash against football quite remarkable, but something tells us your deep seeded fear (hatred/insecurities?) for football is nothing new there.
You don’t deserve the WC I’m afraid, many appear nowhere near the football lovers many proclaim to be, if reading the forums at this site and in your local newspapers are any indication. We could be very wrong about this, but it’s now a growing perception about Aus that if maintained won’t win your nation any WC bid in the future. It’s a shame really, millions from around the world would love to attend a WC there and take in the beauty of your country and you have quite a talented team in the Socceroos, whose efforts on the world stage you should be mighty proud of.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:19am
Jeb said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Good post GlenM coming from an outsider. Australia is obviously in a unique position with four codes of football. And whilst supporting one code doesn’t mean disliking the others, this isn’t the impression someone would get by reading blog comments.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:36am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Great! Best news I’ve heard all day!!
Those autorcratic, corrupt officials can take their World Cup to a place where they are better understood – Qatar maybe?
December 8th 2009 @ 10:05am
katzilla said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:05am | Report comment
GlenM, not from the office at the English world cup bid are we?
December 8th 2009 @ 9:52am
whiskeymac said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment
fair point, especially about the loathing aspect. but remeber this is a bunch of blokes (in the whole) who are fanatically supportive of their fave game. of course their responses might be over passionate.
but in the scheme of things surely there are other criteria in countries getting the WC. For example the USA in 94 – did they profess the purists love of the game you imply is necessary? Nah. I think you have an over romanticised “footballs coming home” sentiment. which is understandable but has hardly been a driving success for England in securing major tournaments in the past. One such con$ideration is obviously to grow the game. How to create the overeaching love you think is paramount – have the game played there. Australia in that respect, and as a well infrastructured and experienced organiser of sinilar events in “Asia” is a good choice for the tournament. If the WC games were held here the stadia would be full, the country wld get behind it and it wld be a success.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:54am
Beast-A-Tron said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Question: do you sincerely believe the vitriol is one-sided?
December 8th 2009 @ 10:14am
whiskeymac said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:14am | Report comment
sorry, directed at me? I didnt think i said it was one sided but in any event, and taking into account the posts, if so, the short answer:- no, there is vitriol from both sides. the level of vitriol is not always equal mind you but overall evens out in the wash. that’s a testament to both sides
long answer:- I am of the opinion that this is a site that generally generates the most passionate and to some extent (in a supporters sense) extreme responses aired out in defence and promotion of ones sport, normally at (and in cross code cases like this often) the expense of another sport.
not saying that’s bad, but certainly not saying its always good either, just explaining how i see it and therefore can rationalise some of the irrational, excited responses that get generated all the time. if not WC bids, then NRL stories, Fozzie attacking, media bias or NRL v ARu yaddayadda.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:17am
Beast-A-Tron said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
At GlenM.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:23am
whiskeymac said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:23am | Report comment
ah =)
December 8th 2009 @ 10:05am
Kurt said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Hurrah for Glen! You’re right, we just don’t deserve this wondrous event, please spread the word!
December 8th 2009 @ 10:15am
Gatto Nero said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:15am | Report comment
Good post. I think that for outsiders – Europeans particularly – it may be difficult to conceive of a sporting landscape where there isn’t an established pecking order, such as exists in Australia. Generalising, you have a couple of states where rugby league is the most popular, and others where Australian football rules. Then you have soccer as a second-most popular winter sport in much of the nation, let alone a fourth code which probably has the highest brand recognition of any of the national teams. It’s this diversity that makes Australia a sports-lover’s paradise, but which also complicates arranging nationwide sporting tournaments. I think, partly, sports such as rugby union and cricket have been successful in staging their World Cups here because they are aware of and acknowledge Australia’s sporting landscape, and they are willing to work with the other sports to generate the best returns for Australia. I feel, however, that FIFA is ignorant of the situation on the ground, either due to an absence of education on FFA’s behalf, or because they just don’t care to dig. Accordingly, the impression is out there that non-soccer stakeholders should acquiesce to all FIFA stipulations, and suck it up if they don’t like it.
Soccer needs to compromise or at least show a willingness to examine options when seeking to hold the World Cup in Australia. In that regard Australia differs from much of the rest of the world, because soccer doesn’t enjoy primacy in the sporting market and many Aussies would love the World Cup to come here, but it’s not a burning passion. It’s not often that FIFA experiences this, and I would hope that vigorous debate about whether Australians want the Cup isn’t a set back for the bid. Too many countries would be only too happy to stifle public debate and dissent to land the Cup, and it’s encouraging that Australia can enjoy an honest and open critique of the bid.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:23am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:23am | Report comment
I’m loving the fact that Europeans might have a look here and be surprised that we don’t worship the ground that blatter walks on.
I reckon the Irish would give us full marks for that.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:25am
albatross said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:25am | Report comment
Same as USA ’94 but the stadium thingy wasn’t such an issue.
December 8th 2009 @ 11:27am
oikee said | December 8th 2009 @ 11:27am | Report comment
Hahaha, nice try GlenM, but if Australia wants the bid it will win the bid. We have issues, but as you see from the socceroos support, leaving oz out in the cold could probably be a bad move for FiFa,. We would not only knock them, we would be calling them all sorts of weak, Bast$%#ds.
I cant see whats wrong with AFL coming out being concerned, the NRL is also concerned, but we wont stop the bid, ? Hopefully. If we lose both of these bids, then soccer wont be around hear for what? 20 years maybe. Mate, by then most of us will be moved on, over this whole mallarky. Sitting back, earning 20% on our suoperannuations. Its up to Fifa to make it happen, not us protesting the bid.
December 8th 2009 @ 8:20pm
Alex said | December 8th 2009 @ 8:20pm | Report comment
Oh no, it’s the Australians. Those horrible nasty Australians. Please, who seriously listens to Australians about anything. We are but a speck.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:07am
AndyRoo said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Where has the enthusiasm that greeted the build up to the Sydney Olympics gone?
After the initial excitment of winning the bid I remember a lot of complaining about various issues until the games actually started.
bondi beach stands out.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:15am
Redb said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:15am | Report comment
Was lucky enough to attend a session of beach volleyball at Bondi – great fun.
If only the new rectangular stadium could be developed to handle 50,000 fans – now that would be a unqiue solution for soccer to use its own stadiium rather than Etihad wouldnt it?
hang on I hear the foundations are capable of supporting 50,000 fans.
Go figure.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:36am
AndyRoo said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
I think it’s always been the case about the foundations but the roof is the problem.
I wonder if the roof problem is it is expesive to remove and upgrade or it’s expensive to keep the roof after upgrading.
If it’s the later surely by 2022 they can just chuck the roof in the Yarra as we will all be over the light show by then and get on with it.
Wish they had of just built the thing to 45 50k like MV wanted in the first place and all this fear about the unknown would be unnessesary.
Edit: oh thats right the bloody dockalnds clause that is preventing Melbourne getting a big rectangular ground.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:49am
Redb said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:49am | Report comment
that clause expires in plenty of time.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:57am
AndyRoo said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:57am | Report comment
Then surely that has to be what happens. I think Warner is right, we should just go for 2022. Once that date is set it sort of becomes apparent that Etihad would be a pretty sub par venue for Football by then (13 years from now) and the idea of expanding on a stadium 12 years after it has been built sounds a lot less daft than 8 years after it is built.
Would just be another 4 years of hype and AndyRoo junior would be coming up for 14. Old enough to appretiate it but young enough that he can’t just go with his mates and has to go with his old man.
December 8th 2009 @ 11:33am
oikee said | December 8th 2009 @ 11:33am | Report comment
Do anyone read my posts? I have mentioned untold times that Etihad has a contract in place that no stdium in Melbourne CDB be built larger than 40 thousand capasidy, Dont you understand Commercial law, wheres Pip.
P.S maybe i spelt Stadium wrong, could there be a glitch in the contract.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:44am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Do non-AFL fans on the Roar understand the concept of commercial property rights?
December 8th 2009 @ 9:53am
Ben said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Pip, take a breath and relax mate. The world is not going to fall in if Australia hosts the World Cup in 2018 or 2022. I’m sure your AFL buddies will have many years to arrange (or re-arrange) appropriate commercial rights in preparation for the World Cup. Nobody has asked, or has told, the AFL (or NRL) to bugger off for one month over the June-July that a World Cup would be hosted. There might need to be some special arrangements made, but these must surely be done in closed door negotiations, rather than played out openly in the public square through the media. Negotiations must take place in good faith, without all the gossip, inuendo and speculation – it’s damaging the reputation of all parties, and destroying our chances of hosting the World Cup.
If the AFL is concerned about losing revenue by not being able to host blockbuster matches at the MCG during the World Cup, then surely there is a simple scheduling fix by playing those matches outside the World Cup window? I understand that you’re a die-hard AFL fan, but surely even you can see some benefits from hosting the greatest show on earth, and that a small trade-off might actually benefit your sport?
December 8th 2009 @ 9:58am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:58am | Report comment
The deceit that Buckley and the FFA has been involved in to date tells me that the only way out is for Government to compulsory acquire the property rights for exclusive use of a foreign, unelected and corrupt sporting body.
Etihad have already rejected the FFA outright.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:09am
Ben said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:09am | Report comment
Pip, your comments are becoming increasingly irrational. I think you’re losing the plot. Perhaps what you really want is to give FFA and FIFA the finger on behalf of the AFL, but your mindless parochialism is wearing so thin. You seem to be subscribing to some outlandish international conspiracy that FIFA want to take over the world or invade Australia. Seriously, get a grip.
I am certain that Buckely and FFA are negotiating with AFL, NRL, stadia management, governments and all other interested stakeholders on a good faith basis, providing each with substantial information. But this public speculation, as I said, is doing everybody damage. Plus your mindless rantings are only denting your own reputation. Give it a rest already.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:17am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Ben
that’s a very interesting definition of “good faith” you there – from where I am sitting it looks like anything but good faith.
I have no reputation to dent.
There is an important principle here: to what extent should a foreign and corrupt entity be given carte blanche over the property rights of an Australian entity?
Do you have trouble understanding that concept?
Let me explain it for you:
1. The AFL have the exclusive rights to the MCG and Etihad for about 7 months of the year.
2.. Those rights not only pay for those two stadiums but in turn drive directly or indirectly about 70% of the $1 billion in revenue the AFL as a whole earns.
3. The FFA is seeking Government help to hand over those property rights exclusively to FIFA for most of the footy season.
Do you follow that?
Now if the FFA could put up a bid that did not impinge on the AFL’s property rights – then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
But in what other industry would the government forcibly acquire the property rights of a domestic commercial organisation and hand them over to a foreign and corrupt entity?
December 8th 2009 @ 10:30am
Ben said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:30am | Report comment
What I don’t understand is how you are privy to the internal negotiations taking place between the relevant organisations? If you are not, then you have no capacity to comment on the content or machinations of those discussions.
Yes, everybody understands that there are commercial arrangements at stake, which I have briefly addressed. If all parties are committed to hosting the World Cup, as I believe they are, then I am sure they will come to a workable commercial arrangement for the duration of the event, whether that be financial compensation or different match scheduling. But no amount of stage-managed media speculation and grandstanding on your part will influence those discussions.
Your ridiculous caricature of FIFA as an organisation discredits your otherwise solid posting.
December 8th 2009 @ 11:43am
oikee said | December 8th 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Hey Pip, i thought that me was a real diehard league fan with bad attitude, but your putting me to shame. Chill-pill. Mate, wake up, smell the football roses, and think about that great classic from the village people, ? You cant stop the fifa, nobody can stop the fifa, let the world rejoice let the people take hold, you cant stop them nobody can stop them, dadadadaada.
December 8th 2009 @ 11:57am
Victer said | December 8th 2009 @ 11:57am | Report comment
You are becoming arrogant pip
December 8th 2009 @ 12:56pm
Ben C said | December 8th 2009 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
“to what extent should a foreign and corrupt entity be given carte blanche over the property rights of an Australian entity?”
Pip, I am afraid I don’t understand your point. We have already had the Olympics.
December 8th 2009 @ 9:52am
keeper11 said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment
so much for great ‘national’ game…one stadium and a whole comp is supposedly in danger.
what an utter joke….from AD and his homegrown sycophantic media cheersquad…
shows afl for what it is…an overhyped up one city-centric suburban comp..
WC 94 was held in USA….where we are constantly reminded …’they hate sockah’
am sure the domestic codes their just shrugged the shoulders with little fuss when the tournament was organised and stadia arrangements made…
and what was the outcome..?
a slight boost to the MLS and junior participation…thats about it…
the dominant american codes just went on with their business….
i mean ..as we’re constantly reminded sockah is soo boring anyway right ??
so whats the difference here and the stench of fear coming from..?
Oh…in the US you’re dealing with confident, open-minded, self-assured and truly national sports…..
contrast with our 2 little insecure provincial nervous nellies screaching ‘the sky is falling’….
December 8th 2009 @ 9:56am
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 9:56am | Report comment
AS I’ve said many times – the FFA can put its bid in without needing to involve the AFL – go hold it in NSW and Queensland.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:13am
Ben said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:13am | Report comment
Gladly . . . wonder what the Vic govt would think of that idea though?
December 8th 2009 @ 12:37pm
Sam el Perro said | December 8th 2009 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Wouldn’t this call into question Melbourne’s otherwise well-deserved status as sports capital of Australia?
December 8th 2009 @ 10:15am
Kurt said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:15am | Report comment
Don’t remember the Yankees being kicked out of Yankee stadium for the 94 WC.
December 8th 2009 @ 10:25am
Bill said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:25am | Report comment
Kurt, that’s because the ground is diamond shaped and not a rectangle!
December 8th 2009 @ 2:55pm
Pippinu said | December 8th 2009 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
Well, Australian football is played on cricket ovals!!
December 8th 2009 @ 10:24am
Gatto Nero said | December 8th 2009 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Yeah, hardly the same situation, as Kurt has pointed out. You practically have a hundred-odd stadia across America capable of fulfilling the FIFA requirements, none of which are used during the summer World Cup window. There are also hundreds of appropriate training venues and appropriate civic and tourist infrastructure across all major cities, commensurate with a nation that is the world’s economic powerhouse and boasts a population of 350 million. Ironic that keeper11 forwards America as an icon of what we should aspire to when Adrian’s initial article called Americans “introverted and overly protective”.
December 8th 2009 @ 11:51am
oikee said | December 8th 2009 @ 11:51am | Report comment
Yes good point, and i brought this up in a post up further. If the AFL supported other codes over 100 years ago, the city would not be so insular as it is now. ?
Lets be honest now, to only have thought of building a rectangular stadium, and being commissioned only next year, is what? Living under a rock of some kind.
Mate, we need to help Melbourne get out of this fixation they have with AFL, Their are 3 other codes, plus their code which lets be honest, has not even erroded NSW or QLD for over 150 years, while soccer has taken the world by storm, “but we” have to worry about good ole AD. Bugger him,
Lets show the world, we bend for a major sport in this world, to bring the biggest showcase to our shores, we did bend for the Olympics, we will bend for soccer, and we will bend it like beckham.
December 9th 2009 @ 5:17am
Gatto Nero said | December 9th 2009 @ 5:17am | Report comment
“If AFL supported other codes over 100 years ago, the city would not be so insular as it is now. ?”
I really fail to see the logic here. Say the AFL doesn’t support other codes… why would they? It’s not in the AFL’s brief to support other sports, it’s up to those sports themselves. If, however, you’re referring to Melbourne as distinct from the AFL, I think you’d find it hard to argue that the city isn’t a leader in the support of all sports. Local teams compete in every national sporting league (and win a hefty share of those), Melbourne annually hosts a variety of highly rated sporting events, spectator attendance at sports per capita would have to be about the highest in the world, and a lot of attendance records have been set at events in Melbourne – among them for baseball and rugby league. You continually complain that there hasn’t been a rectangular stadium in Melbourne, yet Etihad and the MCG are multi-purpose venues that accommodate the widest variety of sports possible.
It’s time for you to stop concerning yourself with Melburnians’ passion for sports other than exclusively league and soccer, and learn to appreciate that they are content to enjoy the world’s most vibrant sporting culture.