By Hoy -
December 15th 2009 @ 2:51am
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Picking a Wallaby side of the decade
Australia's Chris Latham - AP Photo/Mark Baker
Coming to the end of this year, can only mean one thing to all those who argue long and hard over anything: a team of the decade!
For some reason, one has already been named – in 2005 (based on the first ten years of professionalism apparently), but I would like to go for the actual decade.
What an ordinary decade we have had, really.
Some great years at the beginning of the decade, followed by some pretty poor years at the middle to back-end. We are showing irregular glimpses of greatness, with more regular glimpses of incompetence.
Now how to pick your team? Do you pick purely on the number of caps? Do you pick your favourite player? Do you stay a little impartial at all? Do you pick players based on single stunning displays?
I like my sentimental favourites.
Does that make it a “favourite team of the decade” rather than “team of the decade”?
Anyway, here goes my team:
1. Benn Robinson
Sentimental favourite for prop, in a decade where, let’s face it, for the better part of the decade we have had a terrible scrum. His work this year has been awesome, and I feel he is hard done by not being recognized more for it.
2. Stephen Moore
Has been involved in the Wallabies since 2005. It was sheer weight of caps that got him here on my list. I like Tatafu more, for his robust game. But Moore has to start in my team.
3. Benn Alexander
Again, with the less than impressive scrum we have had to put up with for most of the decade, this bloke and the number one, have done an immense job in turning it around now. In fact, this bloke moreso, as he switched from Open side to Tighthead to become an integral part of the current team.
4. James Horwill
While some people might question this selection, I back it. I like how Horwill plays, even this year when he was down on form a little. He plays tight, and does the hard yards as a secondrower should. But oddly, he seems to pop up where needed to receive the crucial last pass to score out wide as well.
5. John Eales
I don’t care how many games this bloke has missed through retirement this decade. He is an automatic selection in my team.
6. Owen Finnegan
This one was a hard decision, but Melon provided everything you could want from a blindside flanker. He was tough, hard, and dirty. We complain a lot about the Saffas being dirty, but we all wish we had one of their enforcers. Finnegan was that enforcer for us. Elsom can sit on the bench behind this bloke, but if he plays well when given the opportunity, anything can happen.
7. George Smith
Simply a weight of caps here. This bloke debuted in 2000 and has played 100+ tests this decade. I must say, I toyed with the selection of David Wilson, a long held favourite of mine. Perhaps he will make the bench.
8. Toutai Kefu
This bloke was almost everything a number 8 should be, although I didn’t see too much of the drop-kicking skills held by ZinZan Brooke. I will forever remember the Irish hard man Trevor Brennan coming off second best in an altercation during the WC in ’99.
9. Wil Genia
Should have been Gregan, but I can’t bring myself to pick him as his final years stick in the memory banks more so than his earlier games. I like how Genia plays. Good passing, good running, very strong in contact. Hopefully he can carry this year’s play, and make my next decade’s team as well.
10. Stephen Larkham
There are three walk-up starts to my team, and this bloke is one. If Nobody was perfect, then this bloke is Nobody’s shadow. Jeez, he was great to watch. Slight, yet physical, deceptively fast with ball in hand, solid kicking game. He was fantastic in every aspect, and really embraced all that is running rugby.
11. Joe Roff
This bloke’s skills were silky. Big boot, good catcher, good passer, big fella. He could have played several positions, really, but was lucky enough to be on the end of a great backline. Plus, I think he still holds the record for most consecutive games for the Wallabies.
12. Matt Giteau
Calls for this bloke to go back to 12 are simply for the reason that he is a better 12 than 10. He can sniff a line break or try from anywhere, anyway, and the extra space out wide only helps him.
13. Stirling Mortlock
Can’t go past this bloke’s dominance at 13 this decade. Simple as that.
14. Ben Tune
Another sentimental favourite. People will undoubtedly call for Lote. However, I was never a fan of Lote Tuquiri. And was he really that good?
15. Chris Latham
I like Matt Burke, but Latham could do some freaky things. The try against Wales, when there were two blokes pushing him out, and he just kept powering forward towards the line? Amazing. Big kick, solid defense, great running.
So there it is. My starting favourite team of the decade.
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(74)
Jack Armstrong said | December 15th 2009 @ 6:33am | Report comment
Good Post Hoy – If Burke hadn’t zapped his shoulder he might have surplanted Latho at 15. Can’t agree with Horwill. I think Vickerman instead. Definitely Roff although I kind of think there might be some naysayers there. Tune was dynamic, while Lote, playing union, was just a good finisher. We haven’t seen enough of Giteau as an international center to give him the nod, but on the 5/8 level, Bernie scores a nine and Gits a five.
Maddog said | December 15th 2009 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Hoy,
For the most part mate I agree with your selections. You have done a great job and for true rugby fans, it is hard to argue with any of your selections…well with the exception of James Horwill at Lock. You have no room for Dan Vickerman? Dan single handedly (okay with some help from Justin Harrison) transformed the Australian lineout to what probably was the best lineout in the world early this decade. Add to this his uncompromising play that inspired everyone he played with and his no nonsense attitude. He did everything for the team and there were no on field behaviour issues either.
Howrill is a good player, but not close to the league of Vickerman…and if his form on the weekend with Cambridge is any indication, we would be lucky to have him back.
Hoy said | December 15th 2009 @ 9:13am | Report comment
I knew noone would like my selection of Horwill, however to be honest, I racked my brain thinking of another second rower to complement Eales and Vickerman didn’t even occur to me.
I guess I look back and think of Vickerman, to me he was in and out of the team due to selection and injury, and I could never really see him as a great player that stood out. That was just my take on things.
Vickerman played 52 tests for Australia? Horwill has already played 24, and looks like he could go further. I picked Horwill for what I see he could be and that is where the criteria for selection get a bit blurred. I like Horwill and how he plays, and if he gets a good regular second row partner that can stick with him, we could go back to having a premier second row again, something we haven’t had for years.
Maddog said | December 15th 2009 @ 9:16am | Report comment
True…Howill does have a lot of potential, so perhaps we will see him in the team of next decade?
Howi said | December 15th 2009 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
Harrison was no slouch. He pulled off a miracle play that handed the Wallabies the Lions Series in 2001. Maybe for that alone he should be there?!
crashy said | December 15th 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
yep agree with you Maddog and Hoy.
I saw some old footage of Nathan Grey which reminded me of how hard he used to tackle and hit the line. Tatafu PN could be on there if he sorts his lineout throwing out.
Bay35Pablo said | December 15th 2009 @ 9:47am | Report comment
Agree with most of that except:
Jeremy Paul (72 tests!) over Moore.
I’ll give you Alexander, but only because there haven’t really been any outstanding tightheads I can think of over the last 10 years, they have all tended to be decent but not great.
I’d take Vickerman, Harrison or Giffin over Horwill.
Genia is too early on. Much as I hate to say it, I’d pick Gregan is his earlier years (pre about 2003).
Given Horan played until 2000, he squeaks into this decade, but I’ll give you Giteau as he dominated this decade, but Horan was still considered!!!
Bench:
Moore
Elsom
Tuqiri
Latham
etc, etc
Burke over Latham
Hoy said | December 15th 2009 @ 10:32am | Report comment
I actually thought Horan retired after 99, but had I known he played any Wallabies games in 2000 I would have picked him in a heartbeat. Kicking myself for not remembering that at all.
sheek said | December 15th 2009 @ 6:07pm | Report comment
Horan only played the first test of 2000, quitting with an injured heal & promply retiring.
Whether one test in 2000 qualifies him for the period is debatable. Well, I’d say he doesn’t qualify…..
Seiran said | December 16th 2009 @ 12:09am | Report comment
Jeremy Paul was a shocker.
Mike said | December 16th 2009 @ 10:51am | Report comment
Richard Harry!
Brett McKay said | December 15th 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
Hoy, I think the main omissions have been covered off, and even if you stick to your guns and leave Gregan and Vickerman out, how good would it be to see the XV you’ve named running around…
Harry said | December 15th 2009 @ 11:02am | Report comment
Of the top of my head the 2001 side that beat the Lions and won the 3N and Bledislow was Burke (latham was in the 1st Lions test though), Roff, Herbert, Grey, Mortlock/Walker, Flately/Larkham (Larkham injury prone even then), Gregan, Kefu, Smith, Finegan, Eales, Harrison, Stiles, Paul, Moore.
Clearly the best team of the decade IMO… and the record/results show that as well.
Changes to that lineup for the team of the dacade:
MAYBE: Latham instead of Burke, Mortlock instead of Herbert/ so Turquii onto the wing, Gits instead of Grey, Vickerman instead of Harrison, Darwin instead of Moore, Elsom insteand of Finegan. But all debatable and I point out (see below) the paucity of actual achievement/trophies won in the Wallaby jersey by the likes of Giteau, Elsom and Vickerman.
Only ONE DEFINITE: Robinson for Stiles.
So: Burke, Roff, Mortlock, Giteau, Turquiri, Larkham, Gregan, Kefu, Finegan, Smith, Harrison, Eales, Rod Moore, Paul, Robinson.
No doubt Gregan stayed too long and became a liability, but his performances from 2000 to 2005 were magnificent and can’t be forgotten. Incidentially I think IF Larkham could have stayed fit for 2007, then him and Gregan may well have taken Australia far deeper into the 07 WC then the dismal Quarter final exit.
The only things the Wallabies have done of note since the 03 Final is some good wins against the Poms at Twickenham, spanking them in Brissy 50 something zip when they still had the RWC 03 winners aura, and, the biggest acheivement, keeping more or less equal with South Africa (including walloping them in Brissy 49-0 in 06 and this year’s very fine win). But very lean times at both test level and S14 level since the Brumbies 04 wins.
Hopefully a better decade looming!
Who Needs Melon said | December 15th 2009 @ 11:55am | Report comment
I note that by far the majority of them are NOT in the current team. And some of those that ARE in the current team are dubious selections (Sorry Hoy) – i.e. Genia and Horwill?
I don’t think you’ve been too sentimental nor viewed some former players through rose-coloured glasses. I think you’ve just highlighted that we were a much better team at the start of the decade than at the end.
PS. On another forum I voted for Elsom over Finegan just on the basis of the much greater number of games Elsom has played relative to Finegan… but I think you have made me regret my treasonous behaviour and I once again renew my search for Australias next Owen Finegan. I was hoping it would be Horwill but… alas, no.
Bay35Pablo said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
Who Needs Melon (or should that be Who Needs Finegan?),
Finegan was mint. Like mint with extra mint and mint on top. Mongerel personified in a back rower. Sometimes I forget how good he was, until I realise really Elsom is probably the closest we have had to him since he quit. Then I remember Finegan was (IMHO) even better than Elsom, although Elsom could still potentially improve and get even better.
I would have Finegan in the Wallaby team of the 20th century. At least on the bench.
Peter K said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
Jeremy Paul easily over Moore.
Vickerman easily better than Horwill.
Gregan was a spent force after 1999 so Genia will do.
Roff is overrated. He was good at running into space but lacked genuine pace, and worse defence than Campese.
He was not physical he avoided contact so if caught was easily tackled and only used arms in tackles like a turnstile.
My choice would be Matt Burke, far faster, great defender, also would be the goalkicker for the team, yes he played F/B most of the time but did have a couple of games at wing which qualifies him.
Alexander shows how thin out tighthead stocks have been since Andrew Blades.
Bay35Pablo said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
Peter K, agreed Blades was the last really good or great tightie we have had.
Bring back blokes you could use as building foundations!!! We need the other half of the matching pair for Fat Cat!!!
Who Needs Melon said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
PPS. I vividly remember that Latham try you mentioned. It seemed to defy physics and provided a stark contrast to guys like Tuqiri who, despite being bigger(?) than Latham, seemed to fall over even if tapped lightly on the hip by the tiniest halfback when a metre from the line.
If you look “finisher” up in the dictionary you will find the same picture as included with this arcticle. Something we seem to be missing recently.
Hoy said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
Sorry, I have just tried to find the try, and while his try against Wales was bloody good, it was the one against the Highlanders that was incredible. I got them mixed up.
Funny how my minds plays tricks…
Bay35Pablo said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Actually, interesting comparing this with the Wallabies team of the first 10 years of professional rugby in 2005. main difference is the front 3.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallaby_Team_of_the_Decade
1. Richard Harry
2. Phil Kearns
3. Andrew Blades
4. David Giffin
5. John Eales (c)
6. Owen Finegan
8. Toutai Kefu
7. George Smith
9. George Gregan
10. Stephen Larkham
11. Joe Roff
12. Tim Horan
13. Jason Little
14. Ben Tune
15. Matthew Burke
Reserves: 16. Jeremy Paul, 17. Dan Crowley, 18. Nathan Sharpe, 19. Phil Waugh, 20. Chris Whitaker, 21. Dan Herbert, 22. Lote Tuqiri
Coach: Rod Macqueen
katzilla said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
11. Joe Roff
This bloke’s skills were silky. Big boot, good catcher, good passer, big fella. He could have played several positions, really, but was lucky enough to be on the end of a great backline. Plus, I think he still holds the record for most consecutive games for the Wallabies.
I approve this list
He was also the top try scorer in Super rugby history for awhile there.
Vented Relief said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
Giffin for mine in the row. Definitely agree re latham… He was a freak in the same mould as campese, ella and horan in that he could pull something so arsey it defies our knowledge and undrstanding of the term arse. Burke was a great all round player and fantastic kicker but latham provided those moments of genius that you inevitably need in order to beat the best of the best. Giteau or eales can be our goal kicker for this team.
katzilla said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
10. Stephen Larkham
One thing that used to crack me up when i first moved to OZ was outside a Pharmacy in Crows Nest they had a Manequin set up with all the padding and support sleeves for sportsmen on it. Basically covered from head to toe in Bandages and Pressure Sleeves. My Oz mates used to say ‘Gidday Larkham’ everytime we walked past.
Tock said | December 15th 2009 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
When I started to think about this question it occurred to me, after just having posted a comment on the cricket, how easy it is to find cricket stats and by contrast how difficult it is to find rugby stats.
The memory does fade and I hate to admit that some games meld into others now and the question occurred did a whole range of players mentioned above retire this decade or last.
So is there or are there any decent websites for stats on rugby?
crashy said | December 15th 2009 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
with apologies to Hugh from North Ryde as posted on the Telegraph blog. I found this to be highly amusing…
I can see that many people get very emotional when a league player like JT says he’s defecting to union. Will JT be a success in union? That’s the question. Personally, I don’t think so. He has little or no education, his intelligence is well below average, he’s not an inspirational leader, his defence is suspect, his main weapon is his dummy and run which won’t work as well in rugby, his kicking game is well below union levels and his face is horse-like. He will need a few years to coach his union skills and guys like Dan Carter who have instinctive union skills will run all over him. In two years, if he lasts that long, he’ll come crying back to the NRL or get a job emptying ashtrays in a pub somewhere in far north queensland.
Cracker said | December 15th 2009 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
If I picked a favourite team of the decade I’d have Nathan Grey there in a flash. It would be difficult to justify selecting him in the best Wallaby team of the decade but he’s the sort of hard c#*t the current Aussie side and s14 teams need. He’s got plenty of passion and goes flat out all day.
Hansie said | December 15th 2009 @ 2:57pm | Report comment
Rod Moore (for Alexander), Jeremy Paul (for Stephen Moore), George Gregan (for Genia) and Dan Vickerman (for Horwill) would be my changes.
BrumbiesFan said | December 15th 2009 @ 4:40pm | Report comment
This should be called the team of the Lost Decade. The highlights for the national side are few and far between. Having won the Tri Nations in 2000 and 2001, and beating the British and Irish Lions in 2001, most credit should go to the members of those teams. The Brumbies Super 12/14 wins iin 2001 and 04 were the only other real highlight for me, admittedly a Brumbies supporter. So, I’d say Ben Darwin had more runs on the board than Alexander, as he was a part of both the 2001 Brumbies and Lions victories. Jeremy Paul would be my pick for hooker, but agree with Robinson. Vickerman for Horwill but agree with the rest of the pack. How anyone can go past George Gregan as Australia’s best half is amazing. Even as his football skills waned towards the end, his leadership and inspirational value were immense attributes. And I agree with the rest of the backs.
andrew said | December 15th 2009 @ 4:57pm | Report comment
Need another fullback on the bench if you pick Latho. His good days – he was the best. HIs bad days – and you could normally tell by about 5 minutes in – were diabolical. Remember the first Lions test in Brisbane?
Tock said | December 15th 2009 @ 6:24pm | Report comment
Latham could not and never will lace the boots of Matt Bourke. It is an irritation that the two are mentioned in the same post code. Bourke is the best fullback to play for Australia in my lifetime. In defence , attack, goal kicking he leaves the others for dead. Under the high ball he was Latham’s equal the only area where Latham was close. He was was not prone to the incapacity of not being able to pass a football as latham was and I guess didnt have the capacity to look fantastic in poor company as latham did. If a Matt Bourke turned up tomorrow in Australian rugby the difference would be palpable. Of course older folk might argue that Roger Gould was his equal and Gould was a wonderfull footballer but Bourke brought so many exquisite skills to the table that I can not countenance any other.
Vented Relief said | December 15th 2009 @ 7:47pm | Report comment
Another one of those one-eyed Waratah supporters breaches to pour puss all over the rest of us.
Justin said | December 15th 2009 @ 9:24pm | Report comment
He was nowhere near the attacking genius of Latham, you are delusional if you think that he was.
Bay35Pablo said | December 16th 2009 @ 10:45am | Report comment
(cough, cough ) Marty Roebuck.
Latham was rubbish earlier in his career, but in his later years he really became a class player. Pretty much the reverse of Gregan …
Bill said | December 16th 2009 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
VR – Latham is from NSW country. Played for Randwick then a couple of games for NSW before heading north for a guaranteed starting spot. A lot of Queenslanders pretend this bit of history didn’t happen… hehehe
Hammer said | December 16th 2009 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
Correct!
ScottWoodward.me said | December 15th 2009 @ 7:22pm | Report comment
I am a RL guy but this is not meant to be a smart ass comment but only as I have seen it.
I watch Greegan very closely for years and I am still waiting for him to make a break, look dangerous or employ a brilliant tactical kick, but it escaped me.
Maybe he makes good coffee, but I have no doubt that he would never make first grade at club level in the NRL.
Justin said | December 15th 2009 @ 9:26pm | Report comment
Fair points Scott, he wasnt a very good runner. In his day he was one of the great orchestrators but his last 5 years were pretty ordinary and he ended up being a touch footballer alot of the time, never wanting to be tackled and never making the great hits his early career was so filled with.
Parisien said | December 16th 2009 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Scott, Gregan retired two years ago, have you got your tenses mixed up?
As for coffee, perhaps you are thinking of Campese?
What else escapes you?
damo said | December 15th 2009 @ 7:42pm | Report comment
Fire enough Scott, but Gregan was priceless at times in defence. 94 Bledisloe tackle. Bulldogging Jonah . What other man let alone a man of his size could do that? He was not a great half back but was he was still needed on the field and he couldn’t play second row.
Tock said | December 15th 2009 @ 9:08pm | Report comment
Harsh words Vented Relief. What can I say, my words were with respect to two players. Every year I look forward to a Qld revival only to be dispointed. If Mat Bourke came from Qld or any where else for that matter it would not change what I said above. Loane, McClean (excuse spelling), Cockbain, McCaw, Eales, Horan, Herbert, Little, Tune the list goes on they are great players and I would not swap them for anyone. It has got nothing to do with the school, the state, the region they came from, it has to do with their ability.
I apologise if I was to harsh on Latham but I always felt he was part of the problem not the solution. His tenure coincided with the demise of Qld and Aus rugby.
Tock said | December 15th 2009 @ 9:50pm | Report comment
Upon reflection I should apologise to Chris Latham for he was a wonderful footballer but in my opinion he was not as good as Matt Bourke. Nor should a mere ordinary rugby player such as myself denigrate the achievements of a player who has achieved at the level of excellence of Chris Latham.
I don’t think the purpose of a website like this is to be apologetic for our opinions but to express them and absorb the reasoned views of those who have a different opinion. I am looking forward to that reasoned counter opinion Vented Relief.
Vented Relief said | December 16th 2009 @ 8:03am | Report comment
See my comment up the top regarding Burke and Latham. Apologies for being harsh – I just get passionate about Latham as I believe he was truly someone who could pull something out of absolutely nothing, had the upper body strength of Ashley Cooper but without the 3-4 mistakes that AAC typically has during a game and could boot the ball further than nearly anyone in the game which is a fantastic asset to have at the back I reckon (allows us to dominate any game of force em backs that the boks and co try to pull on us). As I said above, Burke was a fantastic player – totally disciplined (no mistakes) and a full range of skills (you could probably put him anywhere in the outside backs and he would perform admirably) but I like the unpredictability and explosiveness of Latham, two assets that can win you games when nothing else will.
By the bye, QLD entered a state of decline at this stage because we lost most of our wallaby forward pack – Eales, Cockbain, Kefu, Cannon eventually, Wilson, Crowley and key backs in Horan, Little and Tune through injury.
Who Needs Melon said | December 16th 2009 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
Is there a reason you are consistently misspelling the name of this player you are so keen on?
jools-usa said | December 16th 2009 @ 5:43am | Report comment
Howi,
Agree with you on Harrison……still savor the much-maligned “Plod” as he ruined the Lions Tour.
Too early for Genia, gotta thank Gregan for the good years.
Jools-USA
Crashy said | December 16th 2009 @ 6:00am | Report comment
why bother commenting Scott Woodwood.
you have openly said your’e a rugby League fan and go on to say that Gregan would not make it as a league player.
Most leaguies wouldn’t make it as a rugby player. ( many have tried).
what’s your point?
watch the world cup grand final against France for a start…
Crashy said | December 16th 2009 @ 6:01am | Report comment
Brumbies Fan
If there was a man who lived and beathed rugby more than any other – it was the mighty Benny Darwin.
love that man
Rusty said | December 16th 2009 @ 8:27am | Report comment
Brendon Cannon anyone? Seriously tough bastard would make my pick for the rake position
My team and this if from an opposition appraisal point of view.
Frontrow has a decidedly now feel about it but thats because the current props are probably the best of the generation
1. Robinson – Has demolished all comers the last few seasons. Not looking forward to him examining our frontrow next season unless we get a proper tighthead in place
2. Cannon – as per my first comment, could give and take anything. Tough and strong as they come. Jeremy Paul for me was a bit too flash and not enough substance
3. Alexander – couldnt think of anyone else
4. Vickerman – after Eales the best 2nd rower to pull on the wallaby jumper this decade. Never took a backward step and a canny lineout operator in true South African tradition. Its a shame we never kept him for ourselves
5. Eales – nothing to be said here
6. Finnegan – mongrel and then some more ugly mongrel. just what you need in a blindside. Elsom is probably close but Melon as you call him was your Jerry Collins type hitman and like Kefu was hard to stop getting over the gainline
7. Smith – most capped australian forward says it all. Irritating in the way he would suddenly procure the ball when we were on the attack time and time again
8. Kefu – Could there be any doubts? Had some silky skills for a big man
9. Gregan – To be honest – I hated him and his constant chirping but until the twilight years he was actually quite good.
10. Larkham – pure genius, another one of those players who when he had the ball I would hold my breath praying someone would tackle him before that loping gait of his pulled apart the defenses. Had a magnificently timed flat ball that made his centres look really good
11. Joe Roff – pure class an almost unfallible finisher
12. Horan if he is counted, Giteau otherwise.
13. Mortlock – I think Little was very good but this man when on song provides serious power in attack and defense. Herbert was someone else I rated, Francois Pienaar said he would rather slam his fingers in a car door than get tackled by Herbert which to me says alot. The Wallabies have never lacked for talent in the centres with Kafer another I admired
14. Ben Tune – pace to burn another class act cut cruelly short by inury
15. Chris Latham – over Burke for having a howitzer of a boot, near unstoppable in the tackle and the ability to create something from nothing – think try scored down the touchline against Wales, chip and beat 4 defenders when nothing was on.
Subs – not really interested but would probably have room for Sharpe, Cockbain, Waugh, Whitaker, Burke, flately
Damo said | December 16th 2009 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Can’t help but enter the Latham / Burke debate. Burke was a thorough custodian. Did the main job required of a full-back better than anyone – he was safe as houses. Mr Dependable.As well as being able to kick, tackle, and run down international wingers. Latham was not quite as dependable, but utterly unpredictable and with the heart of a lion. He created countless points out of absolutely nothing.
Talk about have a go. He had a go. I thought both players had sad ends to their Wallaby careers. Burke dropped by Tahs before his Wallaby duties ended and Latham quietly exiting with an injury. Both deserved much better send offs from grateful Wallaby fans.
Jameswm said | December 16th 2009 @ 8:38am | Report comment
You guys criticising Latho are remembering the beginning of his career.
His punting out-and-out left Burke’s for dead. By the end of his career Latho had about the best punt I have seen – towering toperdoes going 60m regularly and enormous and accurate drop punts too.
Yes there were questions on his defence sometimes, but he was Campoesque in attack. Burke was more of an honest toiler – a very good one, but a no-mistakes player lacking the inspiration of a Latho. Burke had his clumsy days when he dropped ball after ball (as did Larkham, a fact many of you forget) and 2-3 times in his career he fluffed match-winning goal kicks that he should have made. He could be downright brutal in defence, then some games was made to look silly and clumsy in defence by clever and fleet-footed kiwi wingers.
I’m sorry to say this but overall Burke was overrated. Very good, but not as good as many are saying.
And I say this through gritted teeth as a Tahs supporter, who always hated how Narrabri born and Randwick-bred Latho could be such a passionate Qlder.
Bill said | December 16th 2009 @ 3:14pm | Report comment
Jameswm – you forgotten this try by Burke?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbKeWn34Zxc
ohtani's jacket said | December 16th 2009 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Burke was such a better fullback than Latham it’s not even funny, but he didn’t play for long enough this decade.
My team got swallowed by the board twice, but Gregan and Tuqiri ought to be in the side.
WALLABIES XV: Latham, Tuqiri, Mortlock, Giteau, Roff, Latham, Gregan, Kefu, Smith, Finnegan, Eales, Giffen, Darwin, Paul, Robinson
Reserves: Moore, Alexander, Vickerman, Lyons, Whitaker, Herbert, Burke
Jameswm said | December 16th 2009 @ 10:42am | Report comment
OJ – if yu compare Burke before his serious knee injury and Latho at the start of his career when he was flakey, then I agree.
Not at the end of each of their careers though. Overall Burke never did for NSW what Latho did for Qld.
ohtani's jacket said | December 16th 2009 @ 10:50am | Report comment
It depends where you’re coming from… Burke tormented the All Blacks and Latham did up and unders all game long. If you’re looking at it from the opposite side of the fence, you tend to remember the tormenters more.
Sam Taulelei said | December 17th 2009 @ 10:21am | Report comment
It also depends if you look at a playing career against all opposition or just focus on the All Blacks. Burke may have won more games for the Wallabies against the All Blacks than Latham but Latham scored many more memorable tries against all opposition. Latham was also starting his career at a time when the Wallabies were on the wane whereas Burke’s career peaked at the same time the Wallabies peaked under MacQueen.
It’s a similar argument for Roff vs Tune. In the Super competition Roff ruled supreme but strangely he never dominated the international scene to the same extent whereas Tune was the man for the Wallabies and I certainly sat up in my chair whenever he had the ball in his hands while I never felt the All Blacks were as threatened when Roff had the ball in his hands.
ohtani's jacket said | December 17th 2009 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
When people are talking about Ben Tune, they really mean ‘97-99 Ben Tune.
Joff Roff was a scourge against the All Blacks at the beginning of this decade.
captain nemo said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Toutai Kefu, was the man who turned around the wallabies series against the Lions after the touch up in the first test in Brisbane, with his lead from the front rip and tear performance.
Justin said | December 16th 2009 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
Gee I loved Ben Tune, he was the best since Campo but so cruelly done by injury.
cookie said | December 16th 2009 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
Can’t believe how many pick Gregan….
The bloke couldn’t even pass for crying out loud…
cookie said | December 16th 2009 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
ScottWoodward.me tried his coffee and it wasn’t any good either.
crashy said | December 16th 2009 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
cookie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvGcJbteLmI
what drugs are you on?
Vented Relief said | December 16th 2009 @ 3:42pm | Report comment
That was awesome!
cookie said | December 16th 2009 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
Crashy…..
Anyone who rates gregan must be doing to many or more likely not enough drugs.
Think i better take a bex and lie down.
crashy said | December 16th 2009 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
never said I rated him Cookster – just felt that your comment about Gregan not being able to a pass was a little strong.
He had Chris Whittaker behind him on the bench for his entire career and we all know he had one of the crispest passes around.
Gregan was more than just a halfback.
Farr Jones was better – bit obviously a different era.
cookie said | December 16th 2009 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
Crashy, checked out the link…..I’ll grant one decent pass out of every 100.
Point is he couldn’t pass unless he had a clear deck with a dominating forward pack in front of him. Which is exactly what the link shows… and how about Larkham’s pass??? beautiful, perfectly placed!
Poor larkham spent his entire career receiving the ball around his ankles above his head, anywhere but in the zone. Further they were often lollipops or harbour bridge passes if you like…
Then there is stare at the ball, eventually pick up ball when the oppositions defence has realigned, fiddle about, move ball to left in hands, take one step back two or three to the right and maybe just maybe pass the ball… which by the time it happens Larkham is smashed pretty much before gregan even releases the ball.
Let me think he didn’t run much either and the opposition loved it, they knew exactly what he was going to do and never had to worry. His tackling left much to be desired to … always seemed to pull them down he rarely put his shoulders in.
I’ve said it time and time again on other posts …. How good would have Larkham been if he had decent service and a dominating forward pack? Better than Mert’s and Carter i say.
Jerry said | December 16th 2009 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
He did have both of those things for a great deal of his career.
Jameswm said | December 16th 2009 @ 3:07pm | Report comment
Guys – Gregan could pass, but only to his left – typical for a right-hander.
He had an ordinary pass to his right. Whits shot bullets both sides – as does Genia.
Yes Gregan was more than a simple half-back – I was a big fan until his last 3 or so years when he preserved his body rather than putting it on the line. He’d outlived his effectiveness by then.
DT said | December 16th 2009 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
This is a bit random but Rusty’s comment reminded me – I was speaking to a former international player (a big back-rower) a while back who said the only time he was ever scared on a rugby field was once when Dan Herbert was running at him.
Justin said | December 16th 2009 @ 4:54pm | Report comment
DT – played a curtain raiser at the G and he walked past….biggest legs I have seen on a human I reckon!
crashy said | December 16th 2009 @ 8:13pm | Report comment
ok cookster / jameswm – you are probably right.
I must say that Genia gives me wood with his youthful confidence and awesome both-way pass.
Burgess is gone methinks.
In talking about all our good backs over the last decade ( Herbert, Roff, Tune, even Grey) one common thread is that these boys did not mess up scoring tries as they ran HARD.
This year the wallas have messed up so many, many tries when they were at/over the try line that the only reason must be the lack of pace and hitting the ball hard. Think the Springbok game in Brisbane, England game etc etc. Thoughts anyone?
Tock said | December 16th 2009 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
Very true crashy but i’m not sure it is about running hard, It may be a concentration thing or technique, not realy sure, but you would have to think they are trying their hardest.
Vented I had forgotten Wilson, what a wonderful player, not of this decade of course. But what all this looking back does is highlight the cyclical nature of talent and how one day there is an excess of quality players and the next the well has run dry. Hopefully the next excess of talent is just around the corner.
ohtani's jacket said | December 16th 2009 @ 9:49pm | Report comment
Forget about Gregan’s pass, he was the sole reason the Australian scrum never got penalised thanks to his refusal to feed the ball. If there was a Wallaby with half Gregan’s nous, they wouldn’t have lost so many matches this year.
cookie said | December 17th 2009 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Aye Aye Ohtani’s
Yes… too bloody true….
One thing I’ll say about Gregan and I’ve yet to see another player as good at it as him was his knack for confusing the ref…
Whenever play broke down he would hold the ball above his should in one hand indicating a penalty for his team rightly or wrongly but it seemed to work pretty often….
Juan Carlos said | December 17th 2009 @ 10:13am | Report comment
Let’s hope that Genia is a sure thing for the next team of the decade but you surely can’t pick him there based on a single season. Sure Gregan wasn’t at his best in his last couple of years but the most capped test player ever has to be the only choice for this list.
The Wallabies are struggling in the second row at the moment. Horwill is probably the best of the bunch currently but the pack would be vastly stronger if we had Vickerman back. He has to be chosed ahead of Horwill the team of the decade.
Apart from that I’d have to agree with the remainder of the selections; certainly the current front row are the best we’ve seen in a while and the way the Australian scrum has gone from being ridiculed to being the benchmark is credit to their hard work. Your picks from 10-15 are all pretty spot on although Matt Burke is certainly unlucky to miss out. Joe Roff is my favourite all time Wallaby player and is example of everything you want in a winger. Lote might have brought the big bucks in but his game and skill set never even came close to what Roff could do.
ohtani's jacket said | December 17th 2009 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
Gregan and Larkham went head to head this past weekend in the Top League, with Gregan’s team running out 38-22 winners.
Gregan’s team are undefeated with 9 wins and a draw and are in a scrap for the top place with Sanyo, who’ve won all 10 of their games but only lead the competition by a single point. Larkham’s team are fighting to avoid a playoff/relegation battle at the end of the season.