AFL’s fussing is a compliment to football
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By jimbo, 17 Dec 2009 The Crowd is a Roar Pro
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- A-League, AFL, ARU, FIFA, football, Football World Cup, Kevin Muscat, Melbourne Victory, NRL, Soccer Australia
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Melbourne Victory's Kevin Muscat, right, is tackled by Sydney FC's Ruben Zadkovich during their round 7 A-League match in Sydney on Saturday, Oct. 6, 2007. AAP Image/Paul Miller
Australian sports philosopher and Melbourne Victory hard man Kevin “Muskie” Muscat was asked recently what he thought of the AFL’s carryings on about a FIFA Football World Cup being held in Australia and the Melbourne Herald Sun’s back page story that it would mean the end of Melbourne’s freedom, democracy and way of life.
Expecting a barrage of AFL abuse from the A-League’s most feared defender, Kevin simply answered, “I think it’s a huge compliment to football in Australia, a real big compliment.”
Simon Hill paused for a few moments of stunned silence.
Not many football fans would have thought that Andrew Demetriou was being very complimentary at all to football and its followers in this country, especially since the AFL has really been getting up the noses lately of most Australians living outside the AFL Capital of Australia.
Especially Sydney and the Gold Coast, where the AFL army, loaded up with huge bags of cash and a stacked forward line of marketing geniuses, as well seasoned AFL campaigner Field Marshall “Iron Balls” Sheedie and willing Lieutenant Carmichael “Give Me The Money” Hunt, are planning another explosive offensive, deep into traditional non-AFL ‘heartlands’.
It took me and my border collie Bonny a few days to really appreciate what Muskie was actually saying. It IS a huge compliment to football in this country.
If, as little as five years ago, Soccer Australia announced they were going to bid for not one, but two World Cups, you would have heard the roars of laughter right across Australia from Collins Street in AFL la-la-land, all the way up to George Street in Sydney and Rundle Mall in Brisbane.
John Howard and his government would never in a million years have parted with 46 million dollars of Australian taxpayers money to find out if we had any chance of winning it.
And rather than opposing a FIFA World Cup bid, five years ago the ARU, NRL and AFL would have been patronisingly patting Soccer Australia on the back, wishing them all the best of British luck, with a big smirk on their faces, knowing Australia wouldn’t have had a snowflake’s chance in hell of actually winning the right to host any football World Cup.
How times have changed.
How far must football have progressed in Australia and internationally in the last five years to get so much attention?
On the field, some unkind people have wished Muskie would break a leg (literally, not figuratively speaking), but off the field, he once again proves himself to be one of our greatest ever sporting philosophers.
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Kurt said | December 17th 2009 @ 3:55am | Report comment
Yawn.
mahony said | December 17th 2009 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Are we back to the “first they ignore you” stage?
Beast-A-Tron said | December 18th 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Shouldn’t compare your perspective to Gandhi’s, it is too laughable.
But going back to the article, Rundle Mall is in Adelaide not Brisbane geez basic fact checking is out the window for this piece.
I think it is a bit of a stretch that quick witted rhetoric earns one the title of “sports philosopher”, I mean really come on.
VooDoo said | December 17th 2009 @ 4:05am | Report comment
It’s very unpleasant to read articles that belittle public personalities and show wanton disregard for any journalistic ethics.
MV Dave said | December 17th 2009 @ 5:03am | Report comment
VooDoo
You havent read the Herald Sun then?
Jimbo
Very true although l think you were taking the pi$% with your last statement of Muskie’s philosophical prowess.
jimbo said | December 21st 2009 @ 10:45am | Report comment
Not all articles have to be concrete factual sermons and there is nothing ethically wrong with having a laugh.
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 5:21am | Report comment
compliment to soccer in Australia…..or the power and reach of the FIFA dictatorship???
FFA in Australia, can’t even rent a crowd to come and watch games,
can’t run their business without $32 million from K.Rudd onto the operational bottom line
and sure as heck can’t afford to bid (unless Mr.Lowy paid for it himself) without the Govt writing blank cheques….up to $75 million now is it?
and, sure as heck can’t run a major tournament without the help of the other codes.
Yup…….a little attention is more than the FFA deserved….but, only a spin doctor would assume the issue is with the FFA……everyone knows the FFA don’t drive the WC, it’s a FIFA fundraiser and it’s run out of Zurich. The FFA is so inconsequential in all this it doesn’t matter.
……….what Kurt said……….yawn.
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 5:26am | Report comment
…..btw – - the ‘attention’ seems only a by product of an excuse to run off season AFL stories anyway!! Ah soccer in Australia…always relying on reflected glory……..either off FIFA or, in this case, off the AFL……….careful you don’t get blinded.
Muskie was obviously dripping in sarcasm.
MV Dave said | December 17th 2009 @ 6:42am | Report comment
Interesting that the Socceroos were getting front and back page attention after the WC draw and that seemed just a little too much for one of our sports administrators who found it necessary to deflect that positive trying to turn it into a negative against the FFA…pity for him that his artificially created/timed spat has backfired against him and strengthened the bid. Go Andy!
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 8:12am | Report comment
yeah right, whatever ya’reckon.
Another stupid inflammatory cross code article.
theRoar has been sailing inexorably towards a cheap and tacky site.
albe said | December 17th 2009 @ 8:14am | Report comment
Andy said | December 17th 2009 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Spot on Albe!
Late contender for post of the year.
K.B. said | December 19th 2009 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
Yep and the moderators still ingore MC’s flaming work…
pike64 said | December 17th 2009 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
yeah somebody needs to save you from the wog running your code. LOL. mahony…that’s of irish origin isn’t it? can you please explain to me without being racist how a wog like me cin orstralianise me name cobber? That way my opinion can count as much as yours.
mahony said | December 18th 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
It is Irish – which also explains the stupidity Redb referrs to below!
Now pike64, what you need to do is remove all the wasted vowel souds in your name and any endings such as “ic” “ich” “sis” “sos” or “ino” “poulos” etc… Once you have done that, just take the name “Jones” and we will call you Jonsey!
That should make you opinion count.
pike64 said | December 19th 2009 @ 6:37am | Report comment
jones is welsh not orstraylian
Nelson said | December 17th 2009 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
sigh. you do in fact realise that AFL gets massive government handouts as well? and has been getting them for a helluva lot longer than ‘sokka’?
MV Dave said | December 17th 2009 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
This comment will really test if Pip has gone for good…errrrr over to you Pip…Pip…PiiiiiiiiiiiiP
jimbo said | December 21st 2009 @ 10:50am | Report comment
and the AFL don’t receive a cracker from governments?
and most AFL clubs in Australia don’t make a loss including the premiership winning Swans?
and AFL isn’t going to blow over $400 million of your money trying to set up AFL clubs in no man’s land?
Financial incompetence?
People in glass houses . . .
RoarDaily said | December 17th 2009 @ 6:21am | Report comment
Never heard of ‘Australian sport philosopher’ Kevin Muscat.
Hard man? Really? In football?
Punter said | December 17th 2009 @ 6:27am | Report comment
Yes I agree Jimbo, as it’s a compliment that these AFL fans, the holders of all good things AFL, has time from their wonderous sport to keep us bastards honest, by constantly being on Football threads.
Guys you keep telling us the WC bid is dead & our A-League crowds will cause the end of football in this country, why are you still worried about us, nothing to worry about here, please let us wallow in our last days, enjoying this world game that will never be big in Australia.
I’m sure something is going on in AFL for you guys to spend your valueable time. Bye.
Kurt said | December 17th 2009 @ 6:43am | Report comment
Snooze.
Punter said | December 17th 2009 @ 6:59am | Report comment
Mr Anti-football himself!!!! Doing a great job mate, no WC bid, The A-league in the doledrums. You should be proud of yourself & what you have done for AFL
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 6:49am | Report comment
What a load of rubbish.
Kevin Muscat was interviewed on SEN last week, he said of the AFL:
It’s Ok if you like a sport that is followed by 1-2 million but ours is better its followed by 200 billion around the world.
Redb
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 8:15am | Report comment
yep – Muskie is a very, very clever man isn’t he. 200 billion. Brilliant.
It’d be a bit like quoting Willie Mason or Brendan Fevola as oracle like…….
albe said | December 17th 2009 @ 8:21am | Report comment
the point still stands… a couple of billion vs a couple of million. And we call ourselves a ‘sporting nation’ … yet such disdain shown to the greatest challenge in world sport: Football.
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 9:08am | Report comment
I was laughing at his over exaggeration.
We call ourselves a sporting nation becuase we love sport in multiple forms.
Europe is a lot bigger than Australia and yields far more infleunce in the world and has for centuries (hence the bigger market/competition for the game). It is not disdain if your not into soccer as your favourite sport.
Soccer zealoutry can be best summed up by this beleif that becuase it is the most dominant football code in Europe and the 3rd World that somehow all other football codes should become folklore festivals as a result.
Redb
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 9:13am | Report comment
yes – we do call ourselves a sporting nation,
as per the British High Commissioner to Australia who observed that the Poms were more united behind their WC bid because they were first and foremost a soccer nation,
whereas she’d observed Australia was more a sports nation, and soccer was just one of the options.
Call ourselves a ‘sporting’ nation, yep – I do.
A soccer nation……nah!!!
What’s your definition??
btw – again, interesting hearing an interview on SEN last night with a key member of the MCC (y’know, that quaint little ‘club’ with 192,000 on the waiting list)…….and a brief mention was made of the WC and the MCG and he just said it’s all behind closed doors, but, he pointed out the need for compensation….because, FIFA takes all the money and doesn’t leave any behind. (oh, sure, the FFA will get a dividend – - but, as a sporting nation…..that’s not quite fair if everyone has to make way and only the FFA get’s a ‘win’…..so……it’s not disdain……it’s more a case that we haven’t yet seen what the soccer side has to offer – because, the feeble attempts to claim false credit for some stadium developments and potential future ones that would happen anyway – in Perth and Adelaide……..nah!! soccer has to do better than that. )
Andy said | December 17th 2009 @ 11:35am | Report comment
A soccer nation……nah!!!
What’s your definition??
————————————————————
A neutral definition would include several questions.
Q1: How many people are paid up registered players? [And buy paid up I mean actually play the game on weekends, not the afl model where they count people that drive past the mcg/scg/gabba as ‘registered participants].
A: Well Football has the most participants of any team sport.
Q2: Does you game have a national league? [and by national league I mean one that has the teams spread out in relational to the country’s population, not a ‘national’ league that has 2/3 of the teams in the one state (oh dear) and 2 teams that are 90% made up of non-locals that represent 51% of where the population lives.]
A: yes Indeed, In fact the Football had the oldest national league of any sport in Australia.
Q3: Any event regarded as of national significant? [and by ‘nation significance I mean and game that people outside the same 3___ postcode have actual interest in Australia wide]
A: Yes, in fact John Aloisi’s penalty kick in the 2005 WC Football Qualifier between Australia and Uruguay was voted the best moment in Australian sport. It just pipped Leaping Leo’s GF catch by a lazy 90% margin.
Q4: Do you have a national team? [and by national I mean one that plays against another national sides in the same sport, not one that plays Ireland in a bastardised game of their sport because no other country plays their 150 old suburban game]
A: Yes, the Australian Football Team is the most popular national team in Australia. As voted this year. In fact when they played their 2006 WC games tens of thousands crammed cites in the middle of the winter night to watch their national heroes take on the world best. (I don’t seem to recall to many/any that cramming the city centres to watch the Australian Cricket team, take on Sri Lanka in the 2007 Cricket Commonwealth Cup Final.)
Q5: How many people travel OS to watch you team play?
A: Well, truth be known is that Australia ranks Third in the number of tickets purchased for the 2010 WC. More than Football national’s of the likes of Brazil, Spain, Germany, Argentina, Italy.
———————————–
A Victorian rules definition would ask only one question
Q:How many turned up to watch Newcastle v Wellington?
A: 5,ooo, well that’s all that needs to be said.
————————————————————–
Yep we are well and truly ‘not’ a sokka nation.
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
Mate -
1. all sports have similar junior intro programs and follow the same criteria of minimum 6 wks duration of a program or school competition will enable counting. I’m not sure what you’re on about.
Soccer has had substantial growth in recent times in womens participation. Congrutlations. Show me a state where soccer heads the male participation. NSW only? Postcode 2—.
2. HAL V1-4, 3 of 7 teams from NSW. Non-locals?? Okay, let’s determine that a national league ought really NOT have any teams from NZ, and ought really be 100% Australian citizens.
btw – there are over 80 listed AFL players from QLD and NSW/ACT, that they don’t all play for the QLD and NSW sides is as relevant as that GCU has a Dutchman, a guy from Ivory Coast, and guys from Vic, SA, NSW etc etc……..what of it??
3. does this ‘event’ have to be a once off…..or, is ALoisi taking that kick again sometime this year before Xmas?? The AFL GF is nationally significant, as is the NRL, as is the Melb Cup and Bathurst and the Aust Open Tennis in Melb etc etc
4. Australia has a national baseball team, a national Grid Iron and Ice Hockey team, and Royal Tennis etc etc…….nice criteria
5. Doesn’t this point make you at all concerned for the argument FOR Australia to host an upcoming FIFA WC??
btw –
for your wonderfull National League with only one team from a state with 1/4 of the nations population, how many people actually get off their butts and attend these nationally significant matches on any given weekend across the wonderful national spread of teams? Oh, less than 50,000…….with nothing else on in competition.
Note – 1 AFL team in QLD attracts more attendees per week than the combined efforts of 3 HAL teams in the same state……likewise 1 AFL team in NSW vs the 3 NSW based HAL sides. Is this divide and unconquer?, or, no doubt, the best is yet to come despite the spiralling downward trends.
Hypotheses and theoreticals be damned. The feet have it!!!!
btw –
nice of you to launch a selective attack – but, my point about not being a soccer nation is simply that we – unlike the vast majority of soccer nations (as I might define them) have a very broad sporting diet, and that soccer is not number 1 across the board nor in many measures. To me, that’s a healthy nation that even in sports – is a land of opportunity in a huge variety of sports. But, feel free to argue how bad a thing that is and the sooner soccer wipes out netball, hockey, cricket, AFL etc the better.
AndyRoo said | December 17th 2009 @ 2:44pm | Report comment
MC
# 1
I don’t see why females don’t count, does that mean our nations population is only 12 million? But using your criteria you left of QLD
Peter said | December 17th 2009 @ 3:28pm | Report comment
Got em! – Well done Andy. You reeled mc in big time, HOOK LINE & SINKER.
Oh! MC
Show me a state where soccer heads the male participation. NSW only? Postcode 2—.
A:How about the 4*** and 5*** postcode. Throw in ACT while your there as well.
And as for the “and that soccer is not number 1 across the board nor in many measures.”
A:registered players Football its #1, National team #1
And whats with the crowds argument? So what if the alf gets bigger crowds than nrl,a-league,cricket. Its still an irrelevant sport in the majority of the country. FACT!
$240M 2 year extension deal for the FFA, Thats a ‘bad’ the Australian Football is going!
Punter said | December 17th 2009 @ 4:55pm | Report comment
AndyRoos, maybe we shouldn’t count women as part of the AFL crowds!!!!!
albe said | December 17th 2009 @ 11:59am | Report comment
for me, a true sporting nation would show more interest in a sport the whole world embraces. Rather the ‘football codes’ we do dominate.
many countries ‘love sports in lots of forms’ … that means nothing…
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
So your trying to suggest that 100-150 years Australians decided that Aussie Rules, rugby union and league would be better choices becuase we can win at them?
That is the perfect irrational thinking of a soccer zealout.
The fact remains that world soccer is dominated by European and some South American countries.
Redb
albe said | December 17th 2009 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
no i didn’t say that… but its certainly helped cement these sports in the national psyche of such an insular country like Australia has been for the best part of the last hundred years. Things are changing as the country opens up, and generations of migration have their effect. Along with that, football will continue to make its inroads into the mainstream as the nation matures.
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
That’s a very different argument about immigration than suggesting we only like these sports because we can win at them/dominate.
Nice back pedal.
AndyRoo said | December 17th 2009 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Interestingly Australia did not win either the last International AFL cup or the Rugby League World cup
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
or the Rugby WC?
albe said | December 17th 2009 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
hey no back pedaling here, not the style of the ‘sokkah zealot’
The immigration point is about the country going forward and how things are changing.
totally stand by the point that historically we’ve favoured sports that we are successful at. The two main growth sports in the last century were AFL and rugby league.
As we grow up as a nation and engage more with the world and our region, football will be a big part of that. Its a large part of what motivates governments (both Lib and Labor) to throw their support behind the game since Lowy took over at FFA.
AndyS said | December 17th 2009 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
Albe, we aren’t Russia or the last frontier of backwoodsmen! I think you’d find that most people are quite aware of Soccer, probably played some of it at school, and have consciously chosen the sport they support.
If you want insular, for mine it is the millions that follow Soccer simply because they are completely unaware that any other sports exist.
AndyRoo said | December 17th 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
AndyS I don’t think anyone in the world who supports soccer isn’t aware of other sports.
Perhaps not the Australian ones but their are plenty of other sports out their like Basketball, Athletics and Cycling which have massive global footprints…..but people prefer slide tackling and nutmegs.
albe said | December 17th 2009 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
AndyS i wasn’t talking about ‘awareness’ of the game or ‘tolerance’ even … but the idea that mainstream Australia’s xenophobia and insecurity of their place in the world determines what sports they ‘embrace’.
most ‘soccer’ fans in Oz aren’t insular of other sports. Many were raised on other sports, like me on rugby league.
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Australians dont follow their football code of choice due to insecurity in the world. It has much more to do with the football you were brought up with and teams you formed an attachment with.
That holds for so long but generally people stay with a sport becuase they like it.
AndyS said | December 17th 2009 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
Andyroo, I was thinking of all those folk in Brazil, Mexico, and increasingly SE Asia etc…you really think they have a lot of exposure to organised basketball, or cycling, or any of those other sports that are most generally supported through the schooling systems? They play soccer because all they need is a ball, they watch soccer because that is what is shown on TV, and not a lot else really registers. They are the vast underpinning of support for the sport and why the viewing numbers for the WC are so impressive.
Albe, I didn’t say Oz soccer fans are insular either. I merely said that most Australians are aware of their options and the relative levels of support reflect informed choices and has nothing to do with xenophobia or insecurity. You could probably make a fair case for the insecure being those that prefer to follow a crowd and avoid being different.
AndyRoo said | December 17th 2009 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
AndyS
Their are plenty of sports to pick from in Brazil. Basketball is pretty big in Brazil.
American sports are on TV every where now and have been for a long time.
Even If your poor you still have a choice, sports don’t have to be expensive otherwise something like cricket wouldn’t work in India.
Dan said | December 17th 2009 @ 9:22am | Report comment
I have to support the others on this one. While I don’t really mind soccer, I have a huge problem with the idea that not liking or embracing it makes you “insular” and “unworldly”. Such sentiments carry the air of the “white man’s burden” argument, insinuating that natives simply don’t know what’s good for them, so we have to force it on them. Their quaint little culture is all very well and good, but once they understand how much bigger and better we are, they’ll thank us for forcing them to conform to our ways.
Honestly, why can’t people just accept that there are some places in the world where soccer just isn’t going to be fussed over like it is in Europe and South America?
AndyRoo said | December 17th 2009 @ 10:00am | Report comment
Well I am a football fan but also agree with you Dan.
Sprouting on about “the world game” (a phrase hardly heard outside of Australia and FIFA promotions) and patronizing mentions of provincial sports is grating….and means zilch inside Australian shores.
Australians can decide for themselves what they enjoy (insert clever critique of media practises here).
Wether football is popular in Peru doesn’t mean anything to me…. Unless the Socceroos have to play them.
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 10:57am | Report comment
and it’s not as if soccer hasn’t had a 135 year history in this country plus the benefit of almost constant immigration of people from ‘soccer nations’ plus all the benefits of being an ‘international game’.
That this has occurred and still soccer merely takes A place within the Australian sporting landscape speaks more for the sporting diet on offer in Australia than anything else.
btw – still ought remind people, that from a sports as a regular adult recreational social activity that Australia and more specifically Melbourne is perhaps the worlds most ‘mature’ market – - for such obvious reasons as the 1850s 8 hour day originating in Melbourne, the gold rush wealth of the colony and the young and growing city without staid and self interested institutions and military/class based social structures etc. Sports took off here well ahead of the rest of the world as a tool for the working classes. We’ve been a ‘sporting nation’ since before the vast majority of the worlds soccer clubs/leagues were even thought of.
The rest of the world is only slowly catching up!!!!
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 10:25am | Report comment
Excellent analogy.
Nick F said | December 17th 2009 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Agreed.
I’ve often said that the tribalism of sports often does more harm than good.
But, look on sites like Facebook and the comments section of the HS and every other paper that runs an article that takes the mick with regards to football in Australia. Some of the thinking and ideas, like Sheahans effort not that long ago, are rightfully taken apart as “insular” and “idiotic” because they’ve not either been thought through fully or being sensational just to stir the hornets nest.
The amount of times I’ve seen AFL supporters pop up and sprout the oft quoted line “soccer is full of pansies” is one such line of thinking which is rightly taken apart for the stupid statement that it is.
Punter said | December 17th 2009 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
I totally agree with Dan, but I do like football, this is my choice, I don’t need anyone else following it & though I don’t mind AFL & RL I choose to follow football. I would like to follow football in this country, I would like to see 80K crowd for a Blockbuster, I wish football was on the front, back & middle pages, why is that wishing to be like other countries?
The other fallacy is that while we are in a competitive market is that other countries don’t have the choices
Dan said | December 17th 2009 @ 8:53pm | Report comment
Punter,
Wishing that does not mean you are wishing to be like other countries. Of course you would want to see your favourite code of football appear more prominently. I personally wish that Rugby Union was bigger than League and AFL because the talent pool of the wallabies would have would be immense, but I realise that it’s not going to happen and I certainly don’t make snide remarks to AFL and RL fans about how their game is some how “less important” than mine becuase they don’t have international matches of any consequence. That’s what I was getting at. Just read the patronising tone of the likes of Craig Foster and his ilk, who insinuate that the other codes of football are irrelevant because soccer “Football” is the world game and only true “Football”.
Punter said | December 18th 2009 @ 6:04am | Report comment
Dan for every Craig Foster article, there are 10 articles from AFL especially, or NRL jounalists & the odd one from Peter Fitzsimmons mocking or condesending football in this country, so hence I don’t mind the odd Craig Foster article, abit of their own medicine.. It was probably in repsonse to the squashing of the football in the front of the Herald Sun in the height of the hysteria down in Melbourne.
I accept that we currently, at national local club level, A-League, are not even on the same playing level as the AFL & NRL, but look at the condesending way the AFL fans put down our ‘little’ blockbuster this weekend. So let me assure you it goes both ways.
Unlike Rugby, we do have a big playing pool, as a matter of fact, the biggest in the land, like Rugby, we also have a int’l team , the Soccerooos that is amongst the most popular & best loved in this country (Cricket team & Wallabies).
The A-League doesn’t have the history, hasn’t got the tradition, it’s slowly getting the passion, 5 years ago, my favourite football team outside the Socceroos was an O/S based side, now it’s Sydney FC. This will take time.
Dan said | December 18th 2009 @ 9:45am | Report comment
To be fair to Fitzsimons, his articles are always tongue-in-cheek and aren’t really meant to be taken seriously, and apart from him most other Rugby writers are don’t ever say a bad word about soccer. Take Spiro for example.
As for soccers player pool, well soccer does have the largest number of registered players, as you would expect with it being the simplest and safest football game out there (outside of say touch footy). But that doesn’t really translate into much for the socceroos when you still have only 10 professional teams (with some players still needing to hold a day job). THAT is why the Kangaroos have so many more players with raw freakish talents than the wallabies do – not because of the base playing numbers, but because they have 16 fully professional football teams, each with extensive development programs beneath them, while the Wallabies only have 4 Super 14 teams and a bunch of semi-pro clubs.
captain nemo said | December 18th 2009 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
i have read on here redb countless times how great AFL is beacuse they pull 80K plus to a club match at the G. Well Kevin muscat is just comparing the sports on a global scale.
jimbo said | December 21st 2009 @ 10:52am | Report comment
He said it on Fox Sports FC in an interview with Simon Hill.
Fox Sports FC is an excellent football show – you should watch it sometime
albe said | December 17th 2009 @ 7:58am | Report comment
fair call from Musky… the AFL were just itching to break out the champagne once more by trying to kill the bid. Just as they did back in Soccer Oz days when we were stuck in the Oceania sudden death playoff loop.
Put it back on ice fumbleballers…
Michael C said | December 18th 2009 @ 5:28am | Report comment
soccer journos now use the quote
“It is fact that it’s been said”
“that AFL commissioners cracked open champagne”……
yep, it’s fact that many soccer folk took seriously the tongue in cheek answer from Ron Evans to a d!*#head question.
but – soccer people – such as messers Lynch, Cockerill and Silkstone) have shown a tendancy to grasp onto wet paper straws……
AndyRoo said | December 17th 2009 @ 8:51am | Report comment
I don’t really buy that it’s a compliment for football because it’s not like they just decided to talk about Football.
If not for the World cup bid threatening to impact on their AFL season we wouldn’t have heard anything from the AFL. But perhaps with the timing which could be coincidental (MC will inform you of Andy Ds child producing schedule) but did seem quite calculated from afar.
Musky is wasted on these Victorians
yep – Muskie is a very, very clever man isn’t he. 200 billion. Brilliant.
It’d be a bit like quoting Willie Mason or Brendan Fevola as oracle like…
Muskie is not an idiot, but probably not someone to take 100% seriously.
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 9:16am | Report comment
seriously, Muskie is often on SEN radio, and normally is pretty tongue in cheek about things….so…..running a ‘literal’ quote is normally going to be a tad misleading.
btw – re AD, and coincidence or not……reality still is, if he and the AFL – as it seems – feel that the FFA has been dragging the chain and need a rocket, then, a few weeks before Xmas is a far, far better time than leaving it later. The FFA has to realise that the AFL and NRL – like it or not – are ‘stakeholders’ as things currently stand.
MV Dave said | December 17th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
“The FFA has to realise that the AFL and NRL – like it or not – are ’stakeholders’ as things currently stand.” Geez l wonder if Ben Buckley, former No 2 of the AFL, had ever considered that?
BTW Be interesting when BB and AD have had their time to reflect together on the complexities on their respective jobs…
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
well obviously,
which is why I suspect that the FFA turn around over Etihad and the reluctance to get the Vic state govt to expand Swan St is due to someone OTHER than Ben Buckley…….
perhaps a F.Lowy,…….
Franks Football Association needs to understand that (re the ‘stakeholders’).
MV Dave said | December 17th 2009 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
i’m sure Frank Lowy has heard of the AFL…although he does reside in NSW and…nah l’m sure he has heard of them.
Seriously l think many people do not understand the complexities of such a bid and that all the details are required by May 2010, not when AD does a handstand…and before you retort with the AFL etc need to make plans…IT (THE WC) WONT OCCUR FOR 9 PROBABLY 13 YEARS, IF AT ALL! Surely enough time to make some contingency plans in partnership with the FFA, NRL, MCC etc
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
Not if Etihad instead of the bubble stadium (redeveloped to 42K) becomes locked in by the bid deadline as the 2nd Melb venue. It has to be worked out before May 2010.
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
MVDave -
this 9 to 13 years if at all is fine, except, as you point out, the details need to be signed off by May 2010 (and, how much to we all understand how rigid those details have to be adhered to or not??).
AT any rate – these sorts of time frames in the main may seem quite well off in the distance,
but, the AFL has a 25 yr tenancy lease prior to taking full ownership of Etihad into which they’ve invested directly $30 million. So, 9 or 13 years is a relatively short time frame – and the AFL must consider the business implications of their long term arrangements – - and, as are often in negotiations with stadium management over minor variations to the arrangements and also having been a loggerheads with said stadium management re double bookings in the past……..anything such as the potential or otherwise for the WC at Etihad in 9-13 years is of very great impotance, because the to and fro of contract negotiations for the remainder of the term (to 2025) may need to be altered even as early as 2010 to cater for it.
Likewise at the MCG where the AFL has a tenancy agreement until 2037. SImilar to above, often drawn out negotiations with the MCC.
People outside of Vic really need to get their heads around this.
If it was simple and easy and based on bi-annual roll overs and re-writes…..then, probably not so big a deal.
So – the AFL can’t just say “No worries”,
in no small part because the AFL is responsible for a delivery of product and base attendances (effectively stadium revenue) to Docklands and MCG management. Remember, the AFL is the primary revenue generator to allow private equity sources to recoup about $1 billion of investment, to service in the case of the MCC a debt of over $300 million.
For all these parties – - 25 and 30 year time frames is what they’re dealing in.
Imagine for a minute that Transurban are told that they have to hand over Citilink (tollway on Tulla Freeway) to a competitor for 2 months in 8 years time…..Transurban have to start forecasting and budgeting now to turn a major interruption in cash flow into a managed blip – let alone that their competitor is seeking 2 months monopoly on Transurbans leased assets.
‘No worries’ just doesn’t cut it.
Frank Lowy drives a hard bargain….we’re yet to see any sign of real compromise from the FFA (because they dare not seek it from FIFA????)…….until then….there is no negotiation.
jimbo said | December 21st 2009 @ 10:54am | Report comment
Its a compliment in the sense that as little as five years ago the AFL wouldn’t have bothered to make a fuss. They would have laughed at Soccer Australia.
Whether its about the grounds, compensation or the loss of Melbourne’s way of life – it just shows how far football has progressed and its a fair comment from Muskie.
pike64 said | December 17th 2009 @ 9:33am | Report comment
The reason a dog barks at another is because it is it’s way of defending its territory without it resulting in a potentially damaging fight and says to the other dog ‘don’t you come here.” A dog doesn’t bark at birds generally, because it does not see them as a threat to its territory. Hence why you have Demetriou and AFL clowns barking at Football but not at Cricket or Basketball or Tennis etc. Football is seen as a threat, the other sports are not!!!! If the AFL’s scrappy, fumbly and downright ugly game is so great then what are they afraid of?
I’ll tell you. I am in my mid 40′s now. In the 70′s and 80′s Football was derogatory called ‘wogball’, the Soccerroos never rated, people drove ‘true Aussie’ cars such as Holden and Ford and never ate ‘wog’ food. My how things have changed The AFL is now run by a wog therefore in my opinion becoming ‘wog’s ball’. Football is gradually coming of age from the juniors up to the Socerroos, people drive cars from all over the world and people love ethnic foods. It’s evolution baby!!!! The big fear the AFL have is that if Aussie kids get to experience World Cup fever in their own country, then how are they expected to get excited over AFL. It would be like trying to get excited over an aussie Bourke st Mall busker after you’ve just seen the international act -Pearl Jam!!!!
Anyway you AFL nuts needn’t worry, your game will never die. Just go throw a slippery ball to a pack of dogs and you will see all the skill required in AFL games from these creatures.
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/football/zealotry-undermines-support-for-cup-bid-20091211-kolw.html
Read away.
jimbo said | December 21st 2009 @ 10:55am | Report comment
Its got nothing on AFL zealotry . . .
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
mate -
basketball and tennis aren’t attempting to stick a 4-8 week hole in an AFL/NRL season some years in the future and as sports don’t use AFL/NRL venues.
Cricket uses AFL venues and the AFL and Cricket have a very much defined relationship – and cricket and AFL have always had a level of demarcation dispute around the edges……and the MCC running the MCG but generating most it’s revenue via the AFL is indicative in part of this.
Your issue is you only see soccer in this picture.
At any rate – you’re comments were okay enough until the stupid last remark that you couldn’t resist…….and yet, we’ve seen Elephants playing soccer……and to me, twas more compelling than the A-League.
Axelv said | December 17th 2009 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
You’re right, Pike64 shouldn’t be saying that the TAFL is ‘rustic slop’ or w/e analogy that columnist used.
Although Hinds clearly gives his opinion as to why Soccer is so world dominant, “Did soccer conquer the world because it was better than any native game? Or because, like McDonald’s, it is the quickest, cheapest and most convenient way of filling the hole?”.
But you’re ignoring Pike64′s point and nit picking on the flaws of his post.
The excitement, thrill and passion of a World Cup is unparalleled. There is no doubt, that once people have had a taste of a World Cup in our own county, every little boy, girl and fan will be wanting more. The NRL and especially the TAFL fear this, as it’s a threat to their own code and they want to defend their own territory.
The World Cup is a once in a lifetime event, and the 8 week disruption will be very inconvenient for these codes, but it’s a once off. It’s not the 8 week disruption they fear, but the shift towards soccer that would occur afterwards.
And I’m still baffled as to why the same 2 people, Michael C and Redb patronize and shit stir in every football article posted on here, are you 2 not TAFL zealots yourselves?
Redb said | December 18th 2009 @ 7:02am | Report comment
AxelV,
Cant spell properly or just juvenile.
This article is very much about the AFL and whilst you soccer zealouts would like us to just go quietly and say nothing whilst you stomp all over the country with your agenda, you’ll just have to cope with our democratic right to speak up.
Redb
Axelv said | December 18th 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
I’m not exactly sure as to what spelling you’re referring to or to whose more juvenile.
Zealout isn’t a word, and i refer to it as the TAFL because it is indeed the Toyota Australian Football League
Now in case you don’t know the definition of Zealot, I have visited the dictionary for you.
1. One who is zealous, especially excessively so. 2. A fanatically committed person.
There is no doubt that you are a TAFL zealot.
jimbo said | December 22nd 2009 @ 11:51am | Report comment
The spelling mistake is intentional Axelv – zealout as in zea “lout”, we are a bunch of “Soccer Louts” according to AFL followers.
Axelv said | December 18th 2009 @ 11:23am | Report comment
And you still have not answered my original question.
Axelv said “Why the same 2 people, Michael C and Redb patronize and shit stir in EVERY football article posted on here?”
You will also notice that i asked as to why you visit EVERY football article, not just this one, in attempting to domineer this game.
And yes you are entitled to your opinion as it’s your democratic right, but don’t think that just because you’re ignorant, that your opinion means something!
AndyRoo said | December 17th 2009 @ 6:18pm | Report comment
I like Football but when i was in Thailand i thought the crocodile show was better …. those guys made Steve Irwin look sensible.
pike64 said | December 17th 2009 @ 6:35pm | Report comment
the game is popular even in the animal kingdom…where else can it go?
James said | December 17th 2009 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Hosting a WC is not be the end of the world, the Soccerroos winning the WC however will sound the death knell for AFL here. Until then the AFL can bash, cry, whinge, moan throw every tantrum they like… but I look forward to the day the entire nation and the world is mesmerized by our efforts to reach a WC final.
Think “America’s Cup” x 1 billion, the whole world will be glued to their screens, in geological terms it will be the equivalent of 10richter earthquake – sports in this nation will have changed for ever thereof…
This is the penultimate nightmare for AFL.
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
see above.
James said | December 17th 2009 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
Read below:
Expert warns of AFL demise http://bit.ly/4Dc6qE
Hosting a WC is not what you should fear, it’s the Socceroos winning the World Cup (on any continent). Goes without saying really…
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
The article on the World Game soccer site?
James said | December 17th 2009 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
Like the Hun is the gospel of clarity and truth? I wouldn’t line my budgie’s cage with that rag..
If you must, Simon Kuper has written extensively on the economics of sports in Nov he wrote an editorial about the WC’s economic impact on SA that I’m sure will interest you:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/58a20e12-dbab-11de-9424-00144feabdc0.html
I’m not picking or choosing Redb, but it has to go without saying that if the Socceroos were ever to return that glistening world cup trophy to our shores, the sporting landscape here in Aus will change dramatically – it’s a no-brainer, as difficult as it may be to accept.
zach said | December 17th 2009 @ 10:17pm | Report comment
Yes, sailing really took over after we won the America’s cup.
Redb said | December 18th 2009 @ 6:54am | Report comment
James,
South Africa is a very different country to Australia.
I am not against hosting the soccer WC or comment regularly about the relative economic impact or not.
My issue is the requirement of Etihad instead of the new rectangular stadium in Melbourne. That is BS manoevering by the FFA to make it very difficult for the AFL to retain some size to its season in a host year.
There is no doubt if we host the WC the lead up will draw sponsorship and media attention from other sports and this will impact on individual AFL and NRL clubs. Both competitions have every right to ensure their sponsors and commercial partners that a viable competiton can be maintained and that in the face of the WC’s gravitas they can remain relevant in that year.
As it stands the AFL and NRL need to ensure a fair deal from the FFA. Certainly the state and federal governments are falling over themselves to get involved and are all starry eyed about the overal economic impact. If the AFL and NRL arent going into bat for the their clubs who will?
This is an issue you need to be proactive about not reactive. Make no mistake the FFA are using the WC to grab a larger share, the AFL and NRL are competitors. It is a unique situation for all.
Redb
Punter said | December 18th 2009 @ 7:28am | Report comment
Give it a break Redb, we know, the FFA know, move on.
Redb said | December 18th 2009 @ 7:36am | Report comment
Punter,
glad you agree.
You bet the FFA now know.
Redb
Punter said | December 18th 2009 @ 7:55am | Report comment
Of course I agree Redb, the AFL & NRL has every right to defend it’s own turf, because the FFA are using the WC to grab a larger slice of the market, no doubt & fully understand the stance of the NRL/AFL. The FFA needs to work with both the NRL & AFL on their grounds & scheduling. This will be done, if FIFA decides to awards the WC to Australia. Can we now move on.
The issue with you, is that when the AFL’s expansion into NRL heartland, you kept calling the NRL journalists like Roy Masters Zealots, they are only protecting their own turf, because mark my words, both expansion of West Sydney & Gold Coast & poaching NRL players are seen by the NRL as encroaching on their turf. But you didn’t value their right to defend their turf due to the AFL expansion.
Redb said | December 18th 2009 @ 8:13am | Report comment
Punter,
great, common ground.
I’m sorry I dont see how Roy Masters can pillor the AFL for expanding its game in NSW when he fully supportive of the Melb Storm expanding RL into Victoria.
I do have a problem with someone who is happy for his own game to expand but not others.
If you can find one AFL journo who has attacked the creation of Melb Victory or Heart or Melb Storm you’ll be lucky. Even the new rugby franchise that has even threatened to target AFL players has seen not a anti rugby peep here about that.
Roy Masters = Mike Sheahan. Although Sheahan writes about other codes rarely with any consistency compared to Masters.
Redb
jimbo said | December 21st 2009 @ 10:57am | Report comment
Yes and Richard Hinds writes AFL articles and then becomes an expert on “Soccer” . . .