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	<title>Comments on: Face the facts, Thurston would fail in union</title>
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	<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/</link>
	<description>Your Sports Opinion</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ScottWoodward.me</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-5/#comment-271732</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottWoodward.me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 06:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271732</guid>
		<description>No argument, but people like to see tries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No argument, but people like to see tries.</p>
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		<title>By: PastHisBest</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-5/#comment-271730</link>
		<dc:creator>PastHisBest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 06:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271730</guid>
		<description>Plenty of dropkicks around here SS...you and I not included of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plenty of dropkicks around here SS&#8230;you and I not included of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Siva Samoa</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-5/#comment-271718</link>
		<dc:creator>Siva Samoa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 06:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271718</guid>
		<description>Including penalties and dropkicks. They are points as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Including penalties and dropkicks. They are points as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Onceinawhile</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-5/#comment-271713</link>
		<dc:creator>Onceinawhile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271713</guid>
		<description>&quot; average Joe Blow can understand it and it is generally won by the best team who scores the most tries or kicks the most 6 pointers&quot;

Most sports are decided by who scores the most points</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; average Joe Blow can understand it and it is generally won by the best team who scores the most tries or kicks the most 6 pointers&#8221;</p>
<p>Most sports are decided by who scores the most points</p>
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		<title>By: rugbyfuture</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-5/#comment-271708</link>
		<dc:creator>rugbyfuture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271708</guid>
		<description>i don&#039;t think there is a common consensus on this site that RU doesnt need to change, quite the opposite, more that it is fixable from its current placing in the football code rankings</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i don&#8217;t think there is a common consensus on this site that RU doesnt need to change, quite the opposite, more that it is fixable from its current placing in the football code rankings</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-5/#comment-271705</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271705</guid>
		<description>Yeah, but the fact that Union is more international is exactly the reason why the ARU can&#039;t go messing around with the product. The NRL and AFL essentially control the game - they have carte blanche to do whatever they want, but other than the ELV trial (which was sanctioned by the IRB remember and also required the approval of the NZRU and SARU) the ARU can&#039;t play by different rules to the rest of the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, but the fact that Union is more international is exactly the reason why the ARU can&#8217;t go messing around with the product. The NRL and AFL essentially control the game &#8211; they have carte blanche to do whatever they want, but other than the ELV trial (which was sanctioned by the IRB remember and also required the approval of the NZRU and SARU) the ARU can&#8217;t play by different rules to the rest of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Siva Samoa</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-5/#comment-271701</link>
		<dc:creator>Siva Samoa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271701</guid>
		<description>Fair point SW.me but I wouldn&#039;t want super 14 to be playing with two refs while the rest with one. The sooner the IRB has a independent structure the better.
Australia&#039;s rugby union problem is they fail to win any titles and they haven&#039;t done that for a while in both super 14 and tri-nations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair point SW.me but I wouldn&#8217;t want super 14 to be playing with two refs while the rest with one. The sooner the IRB has a independent structure the better.<br />
Australia&#8217;s rugby union problem is they fail to win any titles and they haven&#8217;t done that for a while in both super 14 and tri-nations.</p>
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		<title>By: ScottWoodward.me</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-5/#comment-271698</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottWoodward.me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271698</guid>
		<description>Jerry,
My reference was in Australia. The Executive of both AFL and NRL have no problems making changes for the game if they consider it is for the greater good and the consumer approves. They seem to have their finger on the pulse and their respective games are going ahead in leaps and bounds. 
Maybe I have missed it but has John O&#039;Neil done anything worthwhile in recent years? His &quot;patch&quot; are running 5th at the moment in Australia behind the NRL, AFL, Soccer and Cricket. One of the biggest problems is that many of the readers of this thread doesn&#039;t think RU in this country has a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry,<br />
My reference was in Australia. The Executive of both AFL and NRL have no problems making changes for the game if they consider it is for the greater good and the consumer approves. They seem to have their finger on the pulse and their respective games are going ahead in leaps and bounds.<br />
Maybe I have missed it but has John O&#8217;Neil done anything worthwhile in recent years? His &#8220;patch&#8221; are running 5th at the moment in Australia behind the NRL, AFL, Soccer and Cricket. One of the biggest problems is that many of the readers of this thread doesn&#8217;t think RU in this country has a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-271691</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271691</guid>
		<description>I honestly don&#039;t see how anyone can argue League is LESS structured than Union. It&#039;s a set play every play in League. Union is largely played off the cuff from the 2nd phase onwards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I honestly don&#8217;t see how anyone can argue League is LESS structured than Union. It&#8217;s a set play every play in League. Union is largely played off the cuff from the 2nd phase onwards.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-5/#comment-271687</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271687</guid>
		<description>&quot;With all the private school education available to RU&quot;

You do know it&#039;s played outside of England and Australia don&#039;t you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;With all the private school education available to RU&#8221;</p>
<p>You do know it&#8217;s played outside of England and Australia don&#8217;t you?</p>
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		<title>By: ScottWoodward.me</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-5/#comment-271672</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottWoodward.me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271672</guid>
		<description>James as for being educated the term you used &quot;You yourself&quot; is tautology.

Pull your inflated head out of the sand. I enjoyed RU when my son played for Trinity Grammar, but at the highest level is totally depended on the Ref.
The most popular game in the world is soccer and it is also the simplest to understand.
The reason why AFL and RL is dominating free to air and Pay TV in Australia is because the average Joe Blow can understand it and it is generally won by the best team who scores the most tries or kicks the most 6 pointers.
With all the private school education available to RU you would think the penny will drop and they would make some key rule changes.
My dad loves RU and in fact broadcast it for a living with the ABC and even received a telegram the the Prime Minister of South Africa complimenting him on his &quot;unbiased&quot; call when the Wallabies played the Boks in Perth, but with all that history he still concedes that RU is a &quot;good game spoilt by a few dumb rules&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James as for being educated the term you used &#8220;You yourself&#8221; is tautology.</p>
<p>Pull your inflated head out of the sand. I enjoyed RU when my son played for Trinity Grammar, but at the highest level is totally depended on the Ref.<br />
The most popular game in the world is soccer and it is also the simplest to understand.<br />
The reason why AFL and RL is dominating free to air and Pay TV in Australia is because the average Joe Blow can understand it and it is generally won by the best team who scores the most tries or kicks the most 6 pointers.<br />
With all the private school education available to RU you would think the penny will drop and they would make some key rule changes.<br />
My dad loves RU and in fact broadcast it for a living with the ABC and even received a telegram the the Prime Minister of South Africa complimenting him on his &#8220;unbiased&#8221; call when the Wallabies played the Boks in Perth, but with all that history he still concedes that RU is a &#8220;good game spoilt by a few dumb rules&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jameswm</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-5/#comment-271661</link>
		<dc:creator>Jameswm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271661</guid>
		<description>One word Scott - lifestyle</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One word Scott &#8211; lifestyle</p>
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		<title>By: Jameswm</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-271653</link>
		<dc:creator>Jameswm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271653</guid>
		<description>More uneducated responses.  It&#039;s like arguing with a child.  You yourself say you don&#039;t know much about rugby. 

Not all games are simplified to increase their appeal to the lowest common denominator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More uneducated responses.  It&#8217;s like arguing with a child.  You yourself say you don&#8217;t know much about rugby. </p>
<p>Not all games are simplified to increase their appeal to the lowest common denominator.</p>
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		<title>By: ScottWoodward.me</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-271650</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottWoodward.me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271650</guid>
		<description>The unpredicatability is that no one knows why the ref keeps blowing his whistle. Games should be decided largely by tries and not goals from penalties that only the ref knows what it is for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The unpredicatability is that no one knows why the ref keeps blowing his whistle. Games should be decided largely by tries and not goals from penalties that only the ref knows what it is for.</p>
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		<title>By: ScottWoodward.me</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-271649</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottWoodward.me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271649</guid>
		<description>James the answer is YES to most of your questions including the fact that I have a son who is 50% French. Not sure what all that has to do with the price of fish.
You are on drugs if you think that the majority of high profile RL players did not go to RU because of money. e.g
* Mark Gasnier
* SBW
* LT
* Rogers
* K. Hunt
* Sailor
If Thurston could get $1m in the NRL there is no way he would even consider the switch, and $ was THE only thing that could have got Andrew Johns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James the answer is YES to most of your questions including the fact that I have a son who is 50% French. Not sure what all that has to do with the price of fish.<br />
You are on drugs if you think that the majority of high profile RL players did not go to RU because of money. e.g<br />
* Mark Gasnier<br />
* SBW<br />
* LT<br />
* Rogers<br />
* K. Hunt<br />
* Sailor<br />
If Thurston could get $1m in the NRL there is no way he would even consider the switch, and $ was THE only thing that could have got Andrew Johns.</p>
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		<title>By: reds fan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-271643</link>
		<dc:creator>reds fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271643</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t comparing the intellect of two players. My response was regarding your regular use of the term &quot;robotic instructions&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t comparing the intellect of two players. My response was regarding your regular use of the term &#8220;robotic instructions&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: ScottWoodward.me</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-271641</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottWoodward.me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 03:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271641</guid>
		<description>Reds please dont compare one players intellect with another and the ability to adapt. Larkham would be brilliant in any code because I believe he could adapt, I cannot say that with any certainty about JT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reds please dont compare one players intellect with another and the ability to adapt. Larkham would be brilliant in any code because I believe he could adapt, I cannot say that with any certainty about JT.</p>
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		<title>By: reds fan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-271619</link>
		<dc:creator>reds fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 03:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271619</guid>
		<description>Regarding structured v less structured.

I think both games are mostly structured (thats why they have coaches with clipboards!) with semi-regular outbreaks of spontaneous unstructured play. And the crowds generally love both aspects.  Nothing like seeing a well thought out backline play result in a try - in either code.  Its a thing of beauty to see a highly structured move executed perfectly.  But then the unstructured off-the-cuff play can be exhilarating.

For me union&#039;s continual contest for posession gives it an air of unpredictability and also introduces a whole new level of team work that isnt present in league.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding structured v less structured.</p>
<p>I think both games are mostly structured (thats why they have coaches with clipboards!) with semi-regular outbreaks of spontaneous unstructured play. And the crowds generally love both aspects.  Nothing like seeing a well thought out backline play result in a try &#8211; in either code.  Its a thing of beauty to see a highly structured move executed perfectly.  But then the unstructured off-the-cuff play can be exhilarating.</p>
<p>For me union&#8217;s continual contest for posession gives it an air of unpredictability and also introduces a whole new level of team work that isnt present in league.</p>
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		<title>By: reds fan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-271604</link>
		<dc:creator>reds fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 03:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271604</guid>
		<description>Robotic instruction?? Hmmm... was that Rod Macqueen giving robotic instructions to Stephen Larkham to &quot;ghost&quot; through defenses when the opportunity presented itself, and after he opened them up by sending all the attack down the outside channel with his long pinpoint passing game?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robotic instruction?? Hmmm&#8230; was that Rod Macqueen giving robotic instructions to Stephen Larkham to &#8220;ghost&#8221; through defenses when the opportunity presented itself, and after he opened them up by sending all the attack down the outside channel with his long pinpoint passing game?</p>
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		<title>By: reds fan</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-271600</link>
		<dc:creator>reds fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271600</guid>
		<description>A lot of talk of JT&#039;s precise kicking game.  One important thing to note is that in union kicks have to go up before they go long.  This is because the defence is so much closer, as there is no 10m rule as in league.  I have heard Barnes and Rogers both talk about this difference.  I have also noted Bob Dwyer decry the trend of RU players adopting the drop punt.  This started in AFL but has been picked up by RL as it provides great precision and distance.  However it is also a low trajectory kick.  Bob notes that Gits has been using it alot and as a result is getting charged down with some regularity.

It is small differences like this that can make the conversion difficult.  Where once a player acted without conscious thought, they now give away precious moments to think before acting.

The ruck is another place where having to think before acting means that the advantage can be lost and the ball turned over.  Not many league converts ever get the hang of it.  I was watching Gaz playing in Ulster the other day and the ruck is still a foreign concept to him.  Cross adapted well but probably cos of his junior involvement. Same with Barnes.

I think at times union fans become indignant when RL fans say their players could make it easily, as union is the little brother when it comes to the rugby codes in Australia. And often RL fans make the claim without great knowledge of RU, and without the self awareness that their game is played in very limited locations.

I for one am glad the ARU have reconsidered the league convert strategy - at a professional level.  If a league player genuinely wants a new challenge then great, but none have proven to be worth the marginal expense they cost the ARU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of talk of JT&#8217;s precise kicking game.  One important thing to note is that in union kicks have to go up before they go long.  This is because the defence is so much closer, as there is no 10m rule as in league.  I have heard Barnes and Rogers both talk about this difference.  I have also noted Bob Dwyer decry the trend of RU players adopting the drop punt.  This started in AFL but has been picked up by RL as it provides great precision and distance.  However it is also a low trajectory kick.  Bob notes that Gits has been using it alot and as a result is getting charged down with some regularity.</p>
<p>It is small differences like this that can make the conversion difficult.  Where once a player acted without conscious thought, they now give away precious moments to think before acting.</p>
<p>The ruck is another place where having to think before acting means that the advantage can be lost and the ball turned over.  Not many league converts ever get the hang of it.  I was watching Gaz playing in Ulster the other day and the ruck is still a foreign concept to him.  Cross adapted well but probably cos of his junior involvement. Same with Barnes.</p>
<p>I think at times union fans become indignant when RL fans say their players could make it easily, as union is the little brother when it comes to the rugby codes in Australia. And often RL fans make the claim without great knowledge of RU, and without the self awareness that their game is played in very limited locations.</p>
<p>I for one am glad the ARU have reconsidered the league convert strategy &#8211; at a professional level.  If a league player genuinely wants a new challenge then great, but none have proven to be worth the marginal expense they cost the ARU.</p>
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		<title>By: Jameswm</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-271584</link>
		<dc:creator>Jameswm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271584</guid>
		<description>Can someone explain to me how a 5 hit-up and kick game allows for creativity but a game where the ball is always in contest and its coming out unpredictable is somehow robotic?  If League is so creative and rugby robotic, how come League wingers are out of their depth defensively in rugby? 

Some people are making themselves look silly.  Maybe it&#039;s the old theory of say things often enough and they become the truth.  

Additionally Scott - have you ever spent say a year or two living in Europe, maybe the South of France?  Would you like to?  Or would you be happy to spend every holiday going to Coffs Harbour or Sussex Inlet?

Are you a foodie?  Do you like your wine?  Are you a coffee connoisseur?

Would you like to learn a different language or play footie in all sorts of different and exotic places? 

Your comment that money is the sole reason a Leaguie would go to rugby bedazzles us with ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone explain to me how a 5 hit-up and kick game allows for creativity but a game where the ball is always in contest and its coming out unpredictable is somehow robotic?  If League is so creative and rugby robotic, how come League wingers are out of their depth defensively in rugby? </p>
<p>Some people are making themselves look silly.  Maybe it&#8217;s the old theory of say things often enough and they become the truth.  </p>
<p>Additionally Scott &#8211; have you ever spent say a year or two living in Europe, maybe the South of France?  Would you like to?  Or would you be happy to spend every holiday going to Coffs Harbour or Sussex Inlet?</p>
<p>Are you a foodie?  Do you like your wine?  Are you a coffee connoisseur?</p>
<p>Would you like to learn a different language or play footie in all sorts of different and exotic places? </p>
<p>Your comment that money is the sole reason a Leaguie would go to rugby bedazzles us with ignorance.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-3/#comment-271581</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271581</guid>
		<description>Peter ryan from Broncs? to the Brumbies...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter ryan from Broncs? to the Brumbies&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ScottWoodward.me</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-271552</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottWoodward.me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 01:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271552</guid>
		<description>Siva there is no question mark over Thurston&#039;s talent to make it in RU. His major challenge is to fit into the team and follow robotic instructions. He is at his brilliant best when allowed to &quot;do his own thing&quot; and that is not how they play the 15 man game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Siva there is no question mark over Thurston&#8217;s talent to make it in RU. His major challenge is to fit into the team and follow robotic instructions. He is at his brilliant best when allowed to &#8220;do his own thing&#8221; and that is not how they play the 15 man game.</p>
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		<title>By: Siva Samoa</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-271506</link>
		<dc:creator>Siva Samoa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-271506</guid>
		<description>The reason why Thurston would be successful in rugby, once he had learned the rules of the game, is, amongst other things, because he has a precise kicking game that can lead to tries by his wingers. The try by Josh Morris in the corner in the Four Nations final demonstrated that superbly. That is precisely the sort of try that creative players in rugby are going to be forced to create to defeat stifling defences.


That is the main reason why he would fail in rugby big time. The mark and forwards roaming all the over the field would put a stop to that sort of kicking game from Thurston.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason why Thurston would be successful in rugby, once he had learned the rules of the game, is, amongst other things, because he has a precise kicking game that can lead to tries by his wingers. The try by Josh Morris in the corner in the Four Nations final demonstrated that superbly. That is precisely the sort of try that creative players in rugby are going to be forced to create to defeat stifling defences.</p>
<p>That is the main reason why he would fail in rugby big time. The mark and forwards roaming all the over the field would put a stop to that sort of kicking game from Thurston.</p>
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		<title>By: Campbell Watts</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-2/#comment-269831</link>
		<dc:creator>Campbell Watts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-269831</guid>
		<description>Matt,

LT a try-scoring machine? Please! His trys per test average was sad!!
More trys than Joe Roco - no
More trys than Doug Howlett - no
More trys than Sivivatu - no
More trys than Habanna - no
More tyrs than Shane Williams - no
More trys than Joe Roff - no
More trys than Lomu - no

Actually - did he score any great trys??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>LT a try-scoring machine? Please! His trys per test average was sad!!<br />
More trys than Joe Roco &#8211; no<br />
More trys than Doug Howlett &#8211; no<br />
More trys than Sivivatu &#8211; no<br />
More trys than Habanna &#8211; no<br />
More tyrs than Shane Williams &#8211; no<br />
More trys than Joe Roff &#8211; no<br />
More trys than Lomu &#8211; no</p>
<p>Actually &#8211; did he score any great trys??</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-269395</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-269395</guid>
		<description>Ellis went the other way - he moved to League when Union went pro.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ellis went the other way &#8211; he moved to League when Union went pro.</p>
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		<title>By: Joh4Canberra</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-3/#comment-269377</link>
		<dc:creator>Joh4Canberra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-269377</guid>
		<description>I disagree that money is the ONLY factor in all cases. For some players it may be the only factor, and in all cases it&#039;s definitely *a* factor (you don&#039;t exactly see top flight NRL players quitting to go and play amateur RU do you) but I don&#039;t think all go purely -- or even mainly -- for the money.

Some people want a change of scene and the money is not the motivating factor -- even if changing scene means they will earn more (although often people will make the change even if it means earning less). Forget about professional footy players for a minute and think about the rest of us for a minute. Some people would take the view that they are quite happy where they are in life, doing what they&#039;re doing and have no desire to leave that to go and do something else, while others (not necessarily unhappy with their current circumstances) would be up for the challenge of doing something different and maybe even in a different country and culture where they don&#039;t speak English. You come across both temperaments and you can&#039;t say that one is better than the other. Just different.

I think it&#039;s the same with footy players. Take Gasnier for an example. If the NRL had been able to match (or maybe even slightly exceed) what he was being offered from French RU I think he still would have gone across. I&#039;ve listened to an interesting interview with him where he talks about his motivations for going across and I think he&#039;s honest when he says it wasn&#039;t really for the money. He&#039;s the kind of guy who wants to get out of familiar surroundings and go and experience something different -- and in Paris no less. Here&#039;s a guy from Peakhurst High who wants to go out and discover the world. And good luck to him I say. And for all those who are quite happy doing what they&#039;ve always done then good luck to them as well. Both are legitimate options.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree that money is the ONLY factor in all cases. For some players it may be the only factor, and in all cases it&#8217;s definitely *a* factor (you don&#8217;t exactly see top flight NRL players quitting to go and play amateur RU do you) but I don&#8217;t think all go purely &#8212; or even mainly &#8212; for the money.</p>
<p>Some people want a change of scene and the money is not the motivating factor &#8212; even if changing scene means they will earn more (although often people will make the change even if it means earning less). Forget about professional footy players for a minute and think about the rest of us for a minute. Some people would take the view that they are quite happy where they are in life, doing what they&#8217;re doing and have no desire to leave that to go and do something else, while others (not necessarily unhappy with their current circumstances) would be up for the challenge of doing something different and maybe even in a different country and culture where they don&#8217;t speak English. You come across both temperaments and you can&#8217;t say that one is better than the other. Just different.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s the same with footy players. Take Gasnier for an example. If the NRL had been able to match (or maybe even slightly exceed) what he was being offered from French RU I think he still would have gone across. I&#8217;ve listened to an interesting interview with him where he talks about his motivations for going across and I think he&#8217;s honest when he says it wasn&#8217;t really for the money. He&#8217;s the kind of guy who wants to get out of familiar surroundings and go and experience something different &#8212; and in Paris no less. Here&#8217;s a guy from Peakhurst High who wants to go out and discover the world. And good luck to him I say. And for all those who are quite happy doing what they&#8217;ve always done then good luck to them as well. Both are legitimate options.</p>
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		<title>By: Joh4Canberra</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-269374</link>
		<dc:creator>Joh4Canberra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-269374</guid>
		<description>A little bit off topic but still relevant to this thread: I have just read on another site that French rugby union will be introducing a salary cap of EUR 8m (approx AUD 13m) from next season (2010-2011). http://is.gd/5rlDh

The proposed French salary cap is still big by NRL standards but it&#039;s got to have an impact down the line on who leaves Australian RL (and Australian RU for that matter -- let&#039;s not forget the players who have given up Australian RU for the Top 14) and where they go (both in terms of whether they go to some other country such as Japan or Italy rather than France and even if they go to France which club they go to as a cellar dwelling club full of no-names will have more room to move within the salary cap than a powerhouse club full of superstars).

I&#039;m not saying that those who have gone across have done so purely for the money, but it is one factor that goes into the mix. If we take that EUR 8m / AUD 13m and divide it up among a squad 30 that works out at an average of around EUR 267k / AUD 430k (give or take) per annum. Obviously that&#039;s an AVERAGE and some players will earn more than that and others less. There will still be room for a big salary for a superstar. But these big salaries will become rarer and with a salary cap in place offering a big salary to an untested &quot;treiziste&quot; (leaguie) to come across will will become a much bigger gamble for a club. Now I&#039;m not sure on all the details and what room there might be to top up a player&#039;s wages with third party endorsements, etc. That&#039;s all to be revealed. But just taking the raw salary cap figures it&#039;s interesting to compare them with what a few former rugby league players are earning in French rugby. Gaz is reprted to be on around EUR 300k (approx AUD 485k) a season (a bit above above the proposed salary cap average) and SBW is rumoured to be on a lot more than that. With an 8 million Euro (aprox AUD 13 million) a year salary cap for the entire club I don&#039;t think you&#039;ll see anything near the $1.1m a season Thurston is rumoured to have been offered from Japan coming from a French club to lure an untested RL player across to the 15 man game. So yes, with the new salary cap average salaries in the Top 14 will still exceed what&#039;s on offer in the NRL but French rugby will no longer be the cash cow that it has been these last few years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little bit off topic but still relevant to this thread: I have just read on another site that French rugby union will be introducing a salary cap of EUR 8m (approx AUD 13m) from next season (2010-2011). <a href="http://is.gd/5rlDh" rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/5rlDh</a></p>
<p>The proposed French salary cap is still big by NRL standards but it&#8217;s got to have an impact down the line on who leaves Australian RL (and Australian RU for that matter &#8212; let&#8217;s not forget the players who have given up Australian RU for the Top 14) and where they go (both in terms of whether they go to some other country such as Japan or Italy rather than France and even if they go to France which club they go to as a cellar dwelling club full of no-names will have more room to move within the salary cap than a powerhouse club full of superstars).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that those who have gone across have done so purely for the money, but it is one factor that goes into the mix. If we take that EUR 8m / AUD 13m and divide it up among a squad 30 that works out at an average of around EUR 267k / AUD 430k (give or take) per annum. Obviously that&#8217;s an AVERAGE and some players will earn more than that and others less. There will still be room for a big salary for a superstar. But these big salaries will become rarer and with a salary cap in place offering a big salary to an untested &#8220;treiziste&#8221; (leaguie) to come across will will become a much bigger gamble for a club. Now I&#8217;m not sure on all the details and what room there might be to top up a player&#8217;s wages with third party endorsements, etc. That&#8217;s all to be revealed. But just taking the raw salary cap figures it&#8217;s interesting to compare them with what a few former rugby league players are earning in French rugby. Gaz is reprted to be on around EUR 300k (approx AUD 485k) a season (a bit above above the proposed salary cap average) and SBW is rumoured to be on a lot more than that. With an 8 million Euro (aprox AUD 13 million) a year salary cap for the entire club I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;ll see anything near the $1.1m a season Thurston is rumoured to have been offered from Japan coming from a French club to lure an untested RL player across to the 15 man game. So yes, with the new salary cap average salaries in the Top 14 will still exceed what&#8217;s on offer in the NRL but French rugby will no longer be the cash cow that it has been these last few years.</p>
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		<title>By: jus de couchon</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-269352</link>
		<dc:creator>jus de couchon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-269352</guid>
		<description>Picture a game played between Oz and N.Z. Both can interchange players as they wish.Each team made up of 10 league and 10  union. First half played with league rules , 2nd with union. Be interesting to say the least. Id watch it and Im a Pom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Picture a game played between Oz and N.Z. Both can interchange players as they wish.Each team made up of 10 league and 10  union. First half played with league rules , 2nd with union. Be interesting to say the least. Id watch it and Im a Pom.</p>
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		<title>By: PastHisBest</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/17/face-the-facts-thurston-would-fail-in-union/comment-page-4/#comment-269347</link>
		<dc:creator>PastHisBest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/?p=26351#comment-269347</guid>
		<description>Some do, but they also earn a lot more than they would in similar jobs in RL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some do, but they also earn a lot more than they would in similar jobs in RL.</p>
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