Comments on: Is bad behaviour a direct result of professionalism?

By: Corey

Corey — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:59:34 +0000

No most of these guys are from wealthy backgrounds, some are first generation (they brag about their rags-to-riches story), whilst others have been in the club for many a generation. Also, the upper-class use to be the only ones able to afford to go into a “gentlemen’s club” (I love the irony of the name), whereas the poorer classes were restricted to brothels and pubs. Truth be told, every sport has their deviant- even snooker with Alex Higgins. In the end, whether the sport is professional or not, there will be transgressions, whether they be increased due to professionalism, I would say (on a non-statistical measurement), yes.

By: Corey

Corey — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 07:09:54 +0000

Also, wasn’t France banned from Union because of their thuggish play back in the 20′s and 30′s. So they weren’t gentlemen at all.

By: Dogs Of War

Dogs Of War — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 03:24:04 +0000

I disagree with what you said about Cronulla. The reason they had few off field incidents is that the club had a lot of players with families. It’s something the Bulldogs looked at when rebuilding the club after some poor headlines over the past few years, and it’s done wonders on and off the field.

By: Corey

Corey — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 03:01:04 +0000

I believe personally that a team should deal with the player. I have noticed in the Cronulla Sharks (circa late 90′s) that they had very few incidents, because they got together as a team and made rules for themselves. Therefore the team took responsibility for the player and the player took responsibility for the team. They were never in the news for the wrong reasons (except not ever winning a premiership). Also, when Melbourne Storm came in to the league the board made a decision to pick players on their personal life, not just their playing ability- they chose players with young families. They won a premiership in their second year. Even now they are seeing the rewards- Inglis got in trouble for the alleged glassing and he was reprimanded (the biggest player in the competition), AFL would never do that, nor would some soccer leagues (Serie-A). But that was a club decision, not a league decision.

By: Corey

Corey — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 02:54:18 +0000

Gentlemen never act as thugs. They may play a game that is thuggish, but they are not entitled to go outside of the rules to hurt someone. Or are there allowances for that in the game played in HEAVEN.

By: rugbyfuture

rugbyfuture — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 01:44:39 +0000

hence why its a thugs game played by gentlemen, thug being, rough during game play

By: Bay35Pablo

Bay35Pablo — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 00:04:00 +0000

Brad, working while playing top level rugby grounded players a lot more. This was similar with league before full professionalism. You realised how things worked in the real world, that it was a privilege not a right to play the sport at that level, and it kept you grounded. Aand anyone who was a lair would get the p!ss taken out of them when they came back to work.

Now they live in a cocoon and think it is a right not a privilege, especially when they spend most of their teens being told they are a superstar and are destined for great things.

It is always interesting seeing the blokes who cracked it later in life, who usually worked or thought they weren’t going to make it, or those that stuff up enough or get injured and come back, who realise what it might be like the lose the life. They tend to be pretty grounded or have got a big dose of humble.

By: Bay35Pablo

Bay35Pablo — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:59:23 +0000

Waterboy, I tried posting a similar reply to an earlier post yesterday, but I often have problems posting from work. So your post will give me the chance to put it again.

You seem to subscribe to the Golden Age approach to history, in that everything was better when you were young or in ages gone by. I have serious problems with this.

This is like the people who subscribe to the Jane Austen/Victorian England view of history, where everyone was polite and well mannered, and it was all sweetness and light back then, with the worst people be “horrible Mr Wickham” eloping with your sister (I have watched enough of this stuff due to my wife …).

If you watched this, you wouldn’t know there was a rural or urban underclass. It’s like watching King Arthur or Robin Hood movies and not seeing the drudgery of the serfs working in near slavery.

As such, whether you go back to the 1950s or the 1850s you would find as much if not more drunkeness, debauchery, prostitution, and sheer badness as today.

The fact of the matter is that nowadays:

1. A working class boy from Macquarie Fields or Footscray (or Glasgow) can be a millionaire because he can kick a ball. That doesn’t mean he has the social skills or wisdom to know how to behave when it is all trhust upon him. Hell, little Lord Fauntleroys of the world have problems. However, I don’t have a problem with that relative meritocracy.
2. The media nowadays is both rapacious and instantaneous. 40 years ago Tiger Woods dalliances would probably have remained unmentioned by the media until after he died (JFK anyone?). Now they just about have a camera on him as he staggers out of his car crash, get their hands on the 911 call recording, and any woman who talked to him in the last 10 years can get their face on TV saying he knocked her off.

Technology is a double edged sword, and I don’t know if people have changed but the media certainly has.

By: Bay35Pablo

Bay35Pablo — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:49:07 +0000

The first thing I though about Friend when they sacked him was “Sign him up for a Shute Shield side and sort him out …”.

By: waterboy

waterboy — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:44:58 +0000

Brad, you have to be taking the piss……

By: brad

brad — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:02:27 +0000

before proffesionalism union was clean. As an amateur game one had to be wealthy to be able to devote time into the sport. As this is a young mans sport the wealth would have come form the family most likely the “old Rich” hence the games stronghold in private schools. In SA and NZ where the game is more for the middle classes the calibre of young man was alwasy more refined through good farming and religious upbringing. With Proffesionalism the riff raff have an opportunity to excell in the sport thus we will see union players doing things we most associated with Footbal and league. Proffesionalism killed the union star

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:03:46 +0000

That’s because it hasn’t been… There is an extended version of the saying that mentions league, and it goes like this:

“Rugby is thugs game played by gentlemen, while soccer is a gentleman’s game played by thugs, and Rugby League is simply a thugs game played by thugs”.

Rugby League was never “a gentleman’s game” in this axiom (nor should it be).

By: rugbyfuture

rugbyfuture — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:35:07 +0000

i think people are writing me off as having this article being classist, i was pointing out rather that the training achieved through a pampered background taught them to be told what to do, whereas those from a less pampered life arent taught to listen and obey as well, although from the comments heard it seems possible that it is just a reflection of society, and i know what you mean sorta about the whole western subrubs end at george street, i live to the west of the lane cove river, and most of my north shore friends consider it too far west were all the bogans are. in terms of drinking to socialise, it has changed, but now its getting smashed off your face to socialise, im stifled by the fact that my friends go out and get pissed, but as i don’t drink, miss out on many occasions.

By: westy

westy — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:18:44 +0000

I have never accepted that a working class background is an excuse for bad manners ,drunkedness or violence towards women.
Once upon a time it was an indicator of discipline. Opportunities were few and far between and not to be thrown to the wind.
I am also mindful that the opportunity I was given was from one of those private school men who thought western sydney started at George Strreet in the city. He was raised with what was once best of elitist private schools an attitude of obligation to self ,family ,and the whole community.
He told me at the interview he went through Liverpool on the way to the snow. He also gave me a job and a great start .
In my youth $2 purchased 6 schooners and two packets of chips and it lasted a whole night. You drank to socialise over hours of company.. you did not drink to write yourself off in less than an hour.
Boy or girl binge drinking is rife. 14% sweet sparkling sprtzers 6 or more in less than an hour legless in less than two hours.

By: Rockin Rod

Rockin Rod — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:25:41 +0000

He wants to stay married

By: waterboy

waterboy — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:04:17 +0000

As a person that works in the court system everyday, there is no doubt that society, regardless of the class, is becoming more and more, violent, selfish and disrespectful.

All sporting codes have their participants highlighted in the media when they transgress and this coverage is proportional to the popularity of the code ( with the exception of media deals done with the code re reporting as in the AFL). League may complain about their disproportionate media coverage, but I’m sure League players in areas where league isn’t the big game in town, would get away with more than those participants in that locations most popular code.

I often smile at the indignant ourtrage expressed by members of the general public on radio or letters to the editor on the behaviour of these sports. Do these callers and letters writers know what their sons, daughters, grandkids, etc get up to on a Fri and Sat night? If they did they may wish to keep their opinions to themselves.

The serious decline in societal behaviour imo is as a result of 2 things

1. Poor parenting ( which is the result of firstly the breakdown of the traditional family unit and secondly the time constraints placed on parents who work longer and longer hours to give their kids everything, except the most important thing of all….time with them)

2. The imasculation of the education and policing systems in Australia. Kids know if there are no consequences to their poor behaviour, not only will they continue to act poorly, it will encourage their peers to act poorly and each will push the boundaries of poor behaviour ever outwards as they try and impress each other.

The do gooder minority that infiltrate our public service sectors and create such policies have a very great deal to answer for.

By: Ryan

Ryan — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:25:29 +0000

What amazes me in this time of so called intense media scrutinary on professional sportsman is that don’t learn from it. Take Jake Friend as an example, three dumb incidents in one year. Why do they continually put their career on the line to get on the piss. Doesn’t seem worth it to me.

Concentrate on footy, stay away from trouble and you are easy street. Retire from footy in your early 30′s with your house paid off. Seems simple even for 18 to 23 year old.

By: Dogs Of War

Dogs Of War — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:45:00 +0000

Who says I don’t watch Union? Probably been to more internationals and Super 14 games than your average union supporter has.

Just that I like League more, Union is still my second favourite sport.

By: Rod

Rod — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:42:29 +0000

yes, but what about the famous Union initiations lol.

YUCK.

By: rugbyfuture

rugbyfuture — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:31:41 +0000

Come back to union then! hahaha, you know you want to, it s part of your history, *oooo ghostly presence*

By: Dogs Of War

Dogs Of War — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:27:45 +0000

Duplicate.

By: Dogs Of War

Dogs Of War — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:27:14 +0000

I am sure they do get a special bonding after playing each others flutes.

Geez, what I am talkign about, I went to a boarding school that only offered Union. And no such flute playing too place, well not at my school anyway.

By: rugbyfuture

rugbyfuture — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:24:29 +0000

hahaha, yeh well, they don’t have the same “team bonding” exercises as league players

By: Dogs Of War

Dogs Of War — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:17:20 +0000

I like how you seperated the two items “when rugby players are so good at music and playing the flute”, so it is true that Rugby players play a good flute wink wink nudge nudge

By: rugbyfuture

rugbyfuture — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:46:09 +0000

sorry went off the arc a bit there

By: rugbyfuture

rugbyfuture — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:45:51 +0000

well, as we all know, when rugby players are so good at music and playing the flute, theres no wonder they all recieve music scholarships, its a bit dissapointing that the practice of paoching still occurs within the Joeys-Knox-Kings sort of arc (although knox is missing for sum reason) but many players within these schools, are now being poached from western suburbs and less well off communities than in previous times, alluring a good sportsmen by education is a good way though. The other thing to point out is the demise of these sports scholarships in only recent times which may build upon the fact that more players will come in. I’m not as knowledged in GPS rugby as CAS, but waverly have recently gotten rid of all their sports scholarships (in line with the rules) and are now being beaten by the traditional laughing stocks of CAS in rugby such as Aloys and Cranbrook.

to simplify what im pointing out is that those schools that do provide for the stocks of Rugby players, through scholarship programs, are looking to poorer communities more and more, which im not saying is a bad thing, but the school, does not always reflect on the socio economic brackground (although it does much of the time)

By: Bay35Pablo

Bay35Pablo — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:42:14 +0000

Artcile was http://newsstore.smh.com.au/apps/viewDocument.ac?page=1&sy=smh&kw=etiquette&pb=smh&dt=selectRange&dr=week&so=relevance&sf=text&sf=headline&rc=10&rm=200&sp=nrm&clsPage=1&docID=SMH091212263F61JIB77

By: Joh4Canberra

Joh4Canberra — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:38:21 +0000

Turn back the clock? Well, we could always form our own breakaway union over the issue of player payments I suggest we call it the “Southern Rugby Union”.

By: Bay35Pablo

Bay35Pablo — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:34:03 +0000

“with more and more players from a non-pampered background”

See my article on this issue at http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/11/13/aru-need-to-allocate-more-resources-to-schoolboy-rugby/

1/3 of this year’s Tahs (ignoring the departed Loti and Tahu) were from Joeys and Kings.

I am not sure th non-pampered background is providing any more players than 10-20 years ago ….

By: Bay35Pablo

Bay35Pablo — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:30:13 +0000

Redb, surely a headline of “Sports star is good bloke and behaves self” sells just as many papers … ?