What about the rest of the rugby world?
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By rugbyfuture, 18 Dec 2009 rugbyfuture is a Roar Guru
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With so much time and money put into the “great hopes” of rugby, such as Japan, Canada and Argentina, I can’t help but think that some of the places that could use help are being ignored.
The States and Canada are developing well, but what about Spain and Germany?
If Spain and Germany where able to develop in the same manner as the US and Canada are doing, that would practically be the entirety of Western Europe. Or at least the part that matters.
A strengthening Canada and America will have an effect on Mexico and the West Indies; while having top tier rugby in Britain, Italy, France, Germany and Spain, would have an effect, as the influential black of Europe, on Poland, Scandinavia, the old Soviet bloc, Greece and Turkey, and every other country in between.
It’s not so far-fetched.
Germany and Spain have a long history in rugby, dating back to the 1900s. And both share borders with France, and are right near Italy.
I look towards a day when we’ll be hearing of the ten nations, with Georgia and Russia included as well.
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Mr cheese said | December 18th 2009 @ 2:56am | Report comment
The entirety of Western Europe ??
That’s a bit over the top, I reckon.
Here in England, Rugby is not a particularly prominent sport most of the time. Why don’t Rugby administrators do more to promote the sport in countries where it isn’t enormously popular e.g. England, Australia, Scotland, France ??
They should see what they can do in Scotland. If the strategies are successful, try them in places like Spain and Germany.
Yours truly,
rugbyfuture said | December 18th 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
england and france have enough money, as with ireland and wales, they are prominent enough to be the number one contact sport on field. scotlandand australia are facing problems, but the names of rugby union are still strong, i agree that some one needs to get in to support the Scottish.
Johnson said | December 18th 2009 @ 6:24am | Report comment
Rugby was very big in Germany until the first world war – it was a private schoolsport and the war took out so many of their players that it was never able to recover and soccer took over
Pajovic said | December 18th 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
No way? Very interesting! I’d bet they’d be a mean team if they were still playing it today!
King of the Gorganites said | December 18th 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
good point about spain. i see that as a real growth area of the game two top 14 games this year have already been played in spain (both in Basque country). both got crowds of 30K plus. i think a spanish basque club should be added to the french professional leagues. further, a team from barca and madrid is also feasbile.
a madrid/spanish team currently plays in the Amlin cup, the competition below the H Cup. this is invaluable experience to play against english and french professional rugby teams.
i see the benefits in developing American rugby, however, the proxmity of spain, portugal, romania etc to the other major rugby playing powers would enable them to more easily attain high grade copmetition.
european rugby is but also has the potential to grow expecetionally.
mattamkII said | December 18th 2009 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
I always harp on about Asia….well I live there so I kinda have to.
Asian Rugby is growing every year and many of the Unions see 7′s as a great place to start.
Everyone knows about Japan, but Korea and Kazakhstan all have solid national teams with many pro plying their trade in the Russian and Japanese comps.
The Asian 5 nations grows every year and produces some great rugby! even the lower team games between Singapore and HK (for example) would be about the same skill set and Sydney Mid 2nd or high 3rd grade.
So how long before an Asia counrty becomes a powerful? well probably never but I cant see it being too long before the Kazaks and Korea join Japan as 2nd or 3rd tier nation.
gurudoright said | December 18th 2009 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
I can see your point rugbyfuture about the pouring in of funds to Spain and Germany but it is silly to compare in the world of Rugby Union The U.S. and Canada against Spain and Germany, you need to look at it realistically. The IRB throws money at Canada and the U.S. due to the fact that they are a tier 2 nations, with the U.S. having a proud history of playing in every Rugby World Cup except one and Canada playing in every one as well as qualifying for the Quarter Finals once. When you compare that to Spain who have only qualifed once and lost every game ( even against Rugby minnows Uruguay) and Germany, who have never reached a World Cup and has never come close to.
The theory of spending the IRB funds on the 2 North America nations in programs such as the North America 4 competition and the (ARC) America’s Regional Championship is that these nations have the potential in the foreseeable future to mix it with the tier 1 nations on a regular basis. Canada and the United States are currently ranked 14 and 16 in the world respectively and it would be easier for these nations to progress to a higher quality than Spain and Germany. Though no one expecs this to be easy, the IRB are implimending the programs now to help these nations progress to a competitive state.
You can also throw in the fact that the IRB wants desperately wants to crack into the U.S. market and the financial benefit it would relate back to the IRB ie Rugby World Cup TV Rights etc. If rugby was big in America, the money from tv rights would far out strip that of the European market. This money could could then be used to help nations like Spain and Germany.
The IRB only has so much money to spend in funding, what would you see as more of a priority? Would it be the two nations that could become tier 1 nations within 10 -15 years breaking the boring strangle hold the big 8 have on international rugby( just think of how excited everyone was went Argentina broke that stranglehold at the 2007 RWC) or have the IRB focus on two emerging nations that could be ranked in the high teens in 10-15 years and still be behind where Canada and the U.S. are now.
rugbyfuture said | December 18th 2009 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
i see your point, i was highlighting the fact that the development of rugy in germany and spain would spread straight through to the other euro countries, but the America’s really are more important, it will important though, that america dont become too good, because they have the potential to thrash everyone in the world if they became too good at the game, giving no hope.
Harry Kimble said | December 18th 2009 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
There is an effort to improve the quality of Rugby in all regions using the promtion and relegation system.
In Europe, there are 7 divisions. The first division contains Russia, Georgia, Romania, Portugal, Spain and Germany. The fo;;owing six divisions each contain five national teams making a total of 36 nations competing. At the end of the 2009-10 season, there will be no promotion and relegation this time. The lower six divisions will be revamped to five divisions of six teams.
At the moment Hong Kong is touring Europe and gave been beaten by Germany andthe Czech Republic. The tour ends this Saturday with a game against the Netherlands.
Asia run a seven division competition involving 25 nations, also with promotion and relegation. The Asian Five Nations consists of Japan, Kazakhstan, Korea, Hong Kong and Singapore, The first and second division each have pools of four and there are four regional dividions, each with three teams.
Africa has 28 teams competing. The A division has four pools of four teams, the winner of each pool playing off dor the Africa Cup. The B division has two pools of six, and there is a Development division of four nations. As nations improve their positions in their respective pools, they will win promotion.
South America has two divisions, CONSURA and CONSURB. The A group contains Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Paraguay. However Paraguay withdrew from the past tournament and is likely to be replaced by the fast improving new power, Brazil.
The B section consists of mainly Central American and northern South American nations.
North America and the West Indies are catered by NAWIRA, a loose affiliation as Canada and the USA play in the Churchill Cup and the on/off again Pacific rim championship so NAWIRA is mainly the West Indes and Mexico.
So around the world, there is incentive for each nation to improve but it is up to them to organise their own destiny. As they improve their standings, funding will come. The same each nation will fight to avoid relegation.
Of course, some nations are of a very low standard. Already some have gone up and down the divisions like yo-yos but this process sees a gradual improvement in overall standards and each RWC seems to see a new nation make the final 16, ans 2010 will be no different. the standard and profile of Rugby worldwide is constantly improving with the exposure.
sledgeandhammer said | December 18th 2009 @ 9:03pm | Report comment
For those of you who wish to watch the highlights from Germany vs Hong Kong, here are some highlights:
http://www.totalrugby.de/content/view/2383/289/
The country which has really taken to rugby is Georgia, let’s not lose them. Russia is on the rise and we will probably see them in the next world cup ahead of Romania. The big driver in Europe and North Africa has always been the French based FIRA organisation, not IRB. However the IRB has done well to set up competitions such as the Nations Cup in recent years. The game is certainly growing stronger in Europe, and Germany which has some NFL history too, could do well.
To find out all about rugby around the world go to the FIRA website, and click on the forums tab. http://www.fira-aer-rugby.com/
rugbyfuture said | December 18th 2009 @ 9:17pm | Report comment
FIRA are just the IRB’s regional body for europe these days much like NAWIRA in america and ARFU in asia
siva samoa said | December 18th 2009 @ 10:08pm | Report comment
Supa Iberica de Rugby
Last Sunday saw the inaugural final of the inaugural season of the SupaIberica de Rugby. The SIR is the brainchild of Michael Robinson and the Spanish Rugby Clubs Association in response to the perceived fall in competitiveness of the Spanish National team and the inaction of the Spanish Rugby Union to amend it.
The SIR is Spain’s first tentative steps toward establishing a greater Professional league in Spain and Portugal along with growing Rugby’s presence in the community and its participation numbers.
Its first season had 6 City based franchises. Originally four Portugese teams were to participate but the Portugese RU decided to hold back to see how the first season was received and the Spanish RU reaction to the competition.
The SIR as you may have already figured is not sanctioned by the Spanish RU. On face value they have given the SIR public support but the relationship behind the scenes in far from friendly. The Spanish RU has tried everything in their power to disrupt and stall the SIR to no avail.
For the record the 6 professional set ups are the Madrid Gatos, Sevilla FC Adulucia, La Vila Mariners, Vacceos Cavaliers, Catalunya – Blaus Alamgovers and the BasqueKorsarioak. With the Gatos defeating the Mariners in the final.
All the games were broadcast live and in prime time on Canal+ who also sponsored the competition alongside Powerade, Adecco and Canterbury who were the official kit providers.
I’m currently trying to find out about next season, crowd figures, TV audiences, standards of the competition and whether the Portugese team will join either next year or the year after. And of course that the SIR website be published in English.
On the German front, this weekend sees the Hannover 7’s in full swing, with the SIR already proving useful as the Spanish team made the semi- finals. Hopefully they can beat the crowd attendance from last year where they sold 35,000 tickets predominantly to German locals. If all goes to plan next year could see the arrival of the WILd Titans out of Heidelberg as a professional the European Challenge Cup.
http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/07/13/supa-iberica-de-rugby/
rugbyfuture said | December 18th 2009 @ 10:47pm | Report comment
brilliant!, still, more needs to be done
Working Class Rugger said | December 19th 2009 @ 8:02am | Report comment
Siva
Thanks for taking the time to find my SIR post, saved me the bother of having to re-write it again for this discussion.
siva samoa said | December 19th 2009 @ 7:50pm | Report comment
Nice piece WCR. I hope the Portugese teams join next year and there is talk that Barcelona might sponsor the Catalunya team because FC Seville already helping out with Sevilla FC Adulucia. Its good they have gone to regions as its the only way teams from Georgia, Spain, Russia, Portugal and Romania can compete in the European Challenge Cup.
rugbyfuture said | December 19th 2009 @ 7:59pm | Report comment
if they get the 4 portuegese teams and 2 extra teams i can see rugby in spain becoming pretty good, and thanks for the posts and article siva samoa and WCR
Working Class Rugger said | December 20th 2009 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
If Barcelona backs the Catalunya team that would link another Spanish Football giant with the fledgling League. You already mentioned FC Sevilla and Real Madrid backs the inaugural champions the Madrid Gatos.
sledgeandhammer said | December 19th 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
There is now talk of a new IRB Eastern competition which will see leading provinces from Georgia, Russia, Ukraine and Romania compete in super 15 style comp.
By the way, FIRA are not ‘just’ a regional IRB body, they run a hell of a lot of initiatives completely independently of the IRB. Of course, they work together as well, but FIRA has indeed been the driving force of rugby in Europe, and large parts of Africa for many years.
rugbyfuture said | December 19th 2009 @ 11:50am | Report comment
link?
yeh but FIRA probably run much on behalf of the IRB, on their own, regional initiative, including north africa
Bay35Pablo said | December 19th 2009 @ 4:05pm | Report comment
Part of the reason the Olympics wouldn’t look at rugby for many years was the rivalry between the IRB and FIRA, with each claiming to be the top rugby body. The Olympics won’t look at a sport unless it has only one governing body. That has been pretty much resolved with the IRB winning out. However, you can trust the French to always go their own way.
Suffice to say with rugby making the Olympics I can’t see FIRA trying to usurp the IRB, as this would bring everyone down on their heads for threatening rugby being in the Olympics.
Working Class Rugger said | December 19th 2009 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
The Eastern Europe Super 8.
sledgeandhammer said | December 21st 2009 @ 9:36pm | Report comment
Rather than criticising FIRA you guys should recognise that without them a lot of countries in Europe would not be playing rugby today. In my view, it has been the French that have put the ‘europe’ into rugby. Historically, FIRA was developed when the French were banned from the 5 nations and had to look to new countries for international rugby.