By Mike Tuckerman
December 22nd 2009 @ 2:25am
Related coverage
Are the A-League finals really a bad thing?
Newcastle Jets' Fabio Vignaroli (right) congratulates Jin Hyung Song. July 26, 2009. Sydney FC and the Newcastle Jets drew 1-1. AAP Image/Paul Miller
Much of the attention on last weekend’s absorbing round of A-League action was focused on Etihad Stadium, but while Melbourne Victory and Sydney FC played out a scoreless draw, elsewhere a couple of clubs were making moves of their own.
One such outfit was Brisbane Roar, with Ange Postecoglu’s side recording their second win within the space of three days to establish themselves in the top six.
Brisbane’s midweek victory over North Queensland proved not only that fans will come out to see the right kind of marquee player – in this case the Fury’s Robbie Fowler – but also that there are plenty of other useful foreign signings to snap up.
Sergio van Dijk may have arrived in Australia as an unheralded Dutch journeyman, but the burly striker has vindicated the Roar’s scouting department with some devastatingly effective performances of late.
Just as impressive is the faith new coach Postecoglu has shown in some of his youngsters, with the pace of Michael Zullo, Adam Sarota and Tommy Oar set to cause constant headaches for opposition defences over the coming weeks.
Meanwhile, Branko Culina’s Newcastle Jets recorded their fourth win in succession in a thrilling 3-2 victory over the unlucky Fury, as the Novocastrians moved into outright fourth in the table.
Temperamental club owner Con Constantine must have been tempted to give Culina the flick following Newcastle’s dismal start to the campaign, yet his patience has been rewarded with an impressive surge up the standings.
All of which would be redundant were it not for the A-League finals.
Newcastle’s rise from the foot of the table to top four contenders has been impressive, but few would care were it not for the fact that the Jets can now actually win something.
There are plenty of purists out there who insist that the A-League champions should be decided solely on the basis of first-past-the-post.
That might be how it’s done elsewhere, but doing away with the finals series robs mid-table teams of the motivation to persevere at the back end of the season.
What incentive would Perth Glory have to continue busting their lungs if it weren’t for the fact that they could belatedly sneak back into the top six?
Yes, the current finals format somewhat rewards mediocrity – but if Melbourne Victory and Sydney FC have been as dominant as their points haul suggests, they should be able to account for whomever they come up against in the finals.
After all, Melbourne have twice lifted the A-League title after winning the premiership, and every club is well aware of the pitfalls of finals football.
The first-past-the-post school has merit, but whether it’s a short-term option for the A-League is a matter for debate.
How much longer the Asian Football Confederation continues to tolerate finals football is also open to interpretation – although I’m not sure where their new-found belligerence stems from, given that a few years ago they were about as organised as the Fury’s back four.
But with Brisbane and Newcastle now surging into form, I’d be happy to see them rewarded with the opportunity to play finals football.
I’m also intrigued whether the bottom four can conjure their own late surge towards the stop six – including last season’s runner-up, Adelaide United.
There are many fans who believe the finals should be discarded post haste – but I don’t think they’re such a bad idea, at least for the foreseeable future.
A run to the finals maintains interest until the final round of fixtures when there’s no relegation battles to mull over, and gives those who miss out on topping the table a second chance to win the main event.
But is that even something the majority of A-League fans want? Share your thoughts here and we’ll find out.
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and I’m on the Roosters bandwagon a 12 point win to the chooks.
albe said | December 22nd 2009 @ 6:30am | Report comment
‘run to the finals maintains interest until the final round of fixtures when there’s no relegation battles to mull over ‘
says it all for me. I don’t like the finals. I’m too used to the world football norm of a League and Cup structure. To me the finals are more of a cup competition. So i won’t watch until the Final maybe.
a necessary evil i guess until we get a more ideal set-up with two divisions, an FFA Cup etc down the track.
I do wish that the final day of the League season had more build-up and importance.
Vince said | December 22nd 2009 @ 6:47am | Report comment
Australians love Finals and the best way to get the regular punter who isn’t a football fan to take notice in the early years is through a Finals series.
Locally here in our amateur comp we have a Grand Final Series which keeps the low to mid range teams interested right up to the end of the season as 4 out of 6 can make it.
Is it traditional? No, but you have to market your product to keep the punters happy and the punters want Finals.
MV Dave said | December 22nd 2009 @ 7:28am | Report comment
Agreed Vince it is the ‘Aussie’ way of doing things. Finals/play offs bring in the biggest crowds and more overall interest from the general public/media etc.
heckers69 said | December 22nd 2009 @ 7:38am | Report comment
yeh we need finals. with no relegation or promotion!!!
it keeps everything exciting so even if a team goes through undefefeated they could perhaps be beaten in the grand final by the 6th place team
Adam said | December 22nd 2009 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Where have the AFC made any comment on finals?
Punter said | December 22nd 2009 @ 7:50am | Report comment
I think we need to give credence to both first past the post & the finals winners.
Gibbo said | December 22nd 2009 @ 10:32am | Report comment
yeah i agree – the winner of the league is the premier, and the top 6 qualify for the a-league cup. So melb victory would have won a double last year, rather than topping the table before winning the finals series.
Tom said | December 22nd 2009 @ 7:56am | Report comment
Finals are needed for a number of reasons. Money, attendances and media are the three biggest.
The problem is the ridiculous structure where the top 2 teams are likely to play each other three times in four weeks.
Adam said | December 22nd 2009 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Especially with the crowd issues between those top 2 teams and the fact they play each other in the last round making it 4 games in 5 weeks.
Rhys said | December 22nd 2009 @ 8:27am | Report comment
Finals football is a tradition, look at most of Sth. America
albe said | December 22nd 2009 @ 11:03am | Report comment
not the same as finals, they have all different systems there. There’s many, many more countries around the world with a league/cup style structure rather than the finals system we have here.
it’ll be great if they ditch the rugby/aussie rules-style grand final one day for a true FFA Cup Final. Along with a second division, promotion/relegation, all that stuff… its a good ideal for FFA to work towards.
Nick S said | December 22nd 2009 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Agree with all the comments above. In Europe it is fine to have a first past the post, because they have mid-table battles (in England, France, Spain, Germany and Italy) where everyone as low as ten can be in the hunt for Europe spots in the final weeks, whilst the bottome eight or so are in the relegation battle. Thus nearly every team has a meaningful ‘goal’ for the season and something to tune in and get interested about. And of course they have mutiple cup’s to give their fans that straight ‘must-win’ ‘take-all’ atmosphere.
If we had a first past the post why would I watch even one more Roar or Adelaide gamet his season? They can’t get relegated, they won’t win the League…
Having said all that, six is a bit too much, they should have kept it at four until they expanded to 12 teams. It is as stupid as expanding to 11 instead of waiting one year and expanding to a neat 12…
Eamonn Flanagan said | December 22nd 2009 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Mike you obviously didn’t watch Perth on the weekend. Not a lung bursting run to be seen, or maybe one when the subs got dragged!
In Australia finals are great, and needed. Bring them on, and with more one-off finals games this year they should be more exciting than ever.
With an Asian place for the first past the post that first spot is still well rewarded.
Besides under the first past the post system had Melbourne won on the weeked 6 clear with 8 to play…season could be over for 8 teams if not 10 already. Who would want that?
For now we have the possibilities of a Jets run to second spot, Gold Coast could still make number one if Miller can revitalise them, Sydney well they could do anything, but could conceivably be playing Melbourne in the last game of the regular season for the Asian spot, Fowler could still make the finals and who would bet against them in a one-off game…and The Roar under Ange are flying…maybe. Mariners could cling to six spot, Wellington still desperate to make the six, and Adelaide have fools hope, but still have hope…although it’s never going to happen for them this year.
First past the post…none of the above and more would matter much.
AndyRoo said | December 22nd 2009 @ 9:31am | Report comment
Well we play 3 rounds so it’s not exactly a fair home and away.
The fact the minor premiers get an ACL spot for me makes it quite a worthy achievement where as in other codes in Australia it doesn’t mean much other than seeding for the finals.
It’s a good balance really and I know I want my team to win the minor premiership because it means at least 6 extra ACL games to watch
Eddie said | December 22nd 2009 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
It’s the premiership not minor premiership.
AndyRoo said | December 22nd 2009 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
Sorry FFA marketing department but I was trying to avoid confusion when comparing the other Australian codes.
Realfootball said | December 22nd 2009 @ 9:33am | Report comment
The finals system is a cultural imperative in Australia, and a very practical way of adding spice to a limited competition. There is no viable alternative on the horizon.
However, it is good to see that every year the “Premiership” is increasingly seen as an important prize. Slowly but surely the natural order is reasserting itself.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | December 22nd 2009 @ 10:03am | Report comment
I tend to agree with most people here. I don’t have to give a reason, I just like them.
Phil E Buster said | December 22nd 2009 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Yes.
Lazza said | December 22nd 2009 @ 11:09am | Report comment
I agree that Finals are necessary in Australia but the two trophies should have equal respect – that is a Premiership (League) and a Championship (Grand Final) for the season. Both get you into the Champions League and if you do the ‘double’ then even better.
In our sport anything can happen on the day so if you’ve been the best team all season but are unlucky in the Finals then you should still get some recognition.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | December 22nd 2009 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Most Adelaide supporters are desperately hoping that is true. The real recognition is the ACL spot though. That’s the silverware I want to see an Australian club nab.
hazza said | December 22nd 2009 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
I think we should keep the finals format. After all it is a cash cow for the FFA.We are not Europe here. We shouldnt just copy everything that is done in Europe. I just think there should be prizemoney for the top team. Say 500 000 or a million dollars for the team that is first past the post. It would add more prestige to being the top side.
hazza said | December 22nd 2009 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
If you look at the prospect of this years finals series it is quite tantalising. Melbourne v Sydney, Brisbane v Gold Coast, Newcastle v Central Coast. What a finals series it could turn out to be!!!!!
Ben said | December 22nd 2009 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
I dont agree with a top 6, from 10 teams. But I agree with finals.
Finals are the best way to adjudicate who is the best team, rather than the most consistent, which is the glaring flaw of the European system. Just look at Liverpool last season. Only reason people like first-past-the-post is because they’re used to it.
dasilva said | December 22nd 2009 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
I like the final series but I do believe that First past the post should get a lot more prestige. The winner who wins the league first past the post should be considered equal in prestige as the team who wins the final series. They should get similar amount of prize money as well and the last match of the season, all matches should be played at the same time so the team who wins can celebrate the premiership. I would have forgiven the 6 teams out of 10 in the final if the first past the post system was equal prestige as the finals.
albe said | December 22nd 2009 @ 4:47pm | Report comment
Why is everyone so down on Europe? They’re the pinnacle of world club football. We should aspire to be like the best over the long term. Its the same direction FFA are taking with the football department. Plus there’s the familiarity factor for existing football fans who follow the EPL or otherwise. Not that league/cup style seasons are even limited to Europe.
What’s the alternative? Continue to copy the AFL and NRL format forever … and that is what its about. Not South America or MLS or K-League
AndyRoo said | December 22nd 2009 @ 5:11pm | Report comment
Because we enjoy finals and those that don’t tolerate them. Their extra cream on top becasue you get your home and away season for the purists (and an ACL spot) and then finals.
You could go home and turn of your tv once the Premiership is decided albe…. but you would be missing out.
I think Grand Final day is one of those rare ocassions EPL fans can be jealous that their season ends with an away win at Bolton rather than 1st vs 2nd.
I like my NRL/AFL format, fairly even competition and unsegregated crowds.
Just because I like nutmgs and sliding tackles doesn’t make me sophisticated
albe said | December 23rd 2009 @ 4:19am | Report comment
for EPL fans the season ends with the FA Cup final and it seems like they enjoy the system as it is. The first past the post league has its merit or they would have changed it by now. You sometimes might read talk about alternatives, but its never done as its fine the way it is.
I think we can learn more from the successful European leagues rather than some supposed ‘Australian way’ that other sports go with.
Simmo said | December 24th 2009 @ 10:24am | Report comment
why? the Australian way is perfectly fine. it’s what we all understand, hardcore and casual fan alike. The onus is on the ‘European’ way to demonstrate that it is better than the current system. It is a decent system but it’s not inherently better and IMO we shouldn’t blindly copy something that happens overseas without clear benefits.
If you look around the world there’s a huge variety in the way that different countries run their leagues. Our way isn’t quite unique but it works for us.
Ben said | December 22nd 2009 @ 7:47pm | Report comment
Again, I just want to reiterate this point. Finals football allows us to discover the true champion of a league. Not just the most consistent side over 6-9 months. Finals shows us the best side, as the side who wins the finals beats the rest of the best, thus proving themselves the cream of the crop.
I will use the example of Liverpool in the EPL last season where they thumped Man Utd twice yet finished 2nd behind them. From memory Liverpool also did well agst Arsenal and Chelsea (the top 4) yet they didnt win the title. Why? Because they drew with too many average sides. So they weren’t the most consistent, despite being the best of the best, so therefore they werent champions. I think that’s a flawed system.
I’d have loved to have seen a Man Utd v Liverpool GF last season to decide the title.
Rob said | December 26th 2009 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Man this is twisted logic if Ive ever heard it…..So if the Nix or NQF scrape into 6th spot and then string together some lucky games, maybe with our traditional hopeless refereeing decisions…then they are the “true champions of the league”
Methinks your talking bollocks my friend!
clayton said | December 22nd 2009 @ 8:12pm | Report comment
When I take over running the World, this is how I will run the A-league …
A first past the post league based on a balanced home and away.
A simultaneously running knockout comp, lets call it the Australia cup, including A league clubs and top state league clubs.
A pot of money for clubs to receive based on the year`s performance (1st gets more, last gets less).
Staggered entry into the next year`s Australia cup based on league performance (1st joins the cup later in the competition whilst last enters the competition right at the start).
But until then I guess I`ll cop whatever the FFA puts on.
Here is a question though – as a fan, would you prefer if your club won the Prem or the Champ? Okay, a genie has told you you could have one or the other, but not both. Which do you want? I want the Prem.
I am not a Victory fan, but respect what they have done winning the Premier`s plate and the Championship twice.
Are there teams that have hit form at the right time or just plain got lucky to win the Championship? I think so. Does that make them the best team of that year? I don`t think so.
Ben said | December 22nd 2009 @ 8:24pm | Report comment
To answer your question Clayton, The Grand Final
Thats what the finals are. They are contest of the best and your season should be geared towards finetuning your squad to hit your best form for the finals so you can try defeat the best. Like some kind of gladiatorial final battle. No team gets lucky. Some teams just cant handle the big stage, the pressure, some can.
It happens in so many sports,ie. Olympics, the World Cup, Gridiron, yet football fans dont flinch for a moment when they say first-past-the-post is the best. Its not. Its flawed. It doesnt discover the true champion. It discovers the most consistent. And as a follower of sport, I demand the true champion.
clayton said | December 22nd 2009 @ 10:39pm | Report comment
I believe that the most consistent is the best. And that the winner of a one off game is … the winner of a one off game. Nothing more, nothing less.
Seeing people say that Aussies like finals feels strange. I am an Aussie, and I like first past the post.
First pass the post is best.
The changes that will happen to the A-league after I become world ruler will provide the best of both worlds, for all fans. Prizes for those that excel across the season. Prizes for those that have a good cup run and reasons to keep trying for all the clubs.
I will also lower the price of beer at stadiums and make it colder.
albe said | December 23rd 2009 @ 4:22am | Report comment
yeah i agree Clayton… the Premiership >>> the Grand Final winner. The finals are fine as a seperate cup comp, it recognises the best team over a few week period.
The Premiership is about a league season over 30 or so weeks which is what we are heading towards.
Colder beer sounds like a winner too… u have my vote !!!
Simmo said | December 24th 2009 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Why can’t they be of equal value?
deadman said | December 23rd 2009 @ 9:34am | Report comment
In the a-league it is about which team is less injured rather than who is more consistent
which is why first past the post is a flawed option
AndyRoo said | December 23rd 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment
The English comp has been home and away for as long as I can remember that’s why they will never change it, not because it’s better or worse it just is.
If we take away finals we are left with just a race for first. We don’t have relegation nor do we have 2 different continental cups to qualify for too create the English version of finals (the top 4).
I don’t think we can replicate the European leagues, everyone else does (bar the Americans) but which league has risen to prominence from outside the top sphere recently?
Only the J league and perhaps in future the MLS. If we just copy the EPL model we will always be a minor league …same system but with a population of 22m.
Australian football should be a fusion of what works overseas and then adapted to what will work here. I think while we have less than say 16 teams for pure full home and away and we play on during international breaks their needs to be finals and once we have 16 teams we should keep finals because people want them.
I am not sure if your just advocating that the team that finishes first on the ladder is best not the grand final winner (fair enough) or that we should only have first past the post?
albe said | December 23rd 2009 @ 9:02am | Report comment
they changed the whole league to the EPL back a decade or so. They didn’t change it from a League premiership then coz most fans there like it the way it is. They hardly “envy” our grand final/semis structure as someone suggested earlier.
i’m just talking about the long term direction of the league. Once a second div, an FFA Cup and P&R comes in, they should go for a purely ‘first past the post’ league title. And have the FFA Cup Final as that big ’season ender’ that everyone wants, replacing the AFL/NRL style grand final.
This could also appeal to the existing world football fans in Australia who already follow leagues like the EPL and are familiar with the successful European model. It can work here too in the long term, but of course it has to come with all those over things that make club football in Europe so exciting.
I talk to lots of football fans, i reckon anecdotally only half those follow the A-League coz most fans of the EPL etc don’t take our league seriously. The way the league is structured is part of that.
AndyRoo said | December 23rd 2009 @ 9:22am | Report comment
They hardly “envy” our grand final/semis structure as someone suggested earlier.
I think that was me your referring too and I didn’t really mean it like that, just that Grand Final day is an exciting event. It was so even when we had only 8 teams and the finalists had likely played each other 4 times. I think the best build up for the FA cup final recently was the Man U vs Arsenal match when they were both the top teams.
I reserve the right to change my mind if they get the cup formula correct as a good replacement.
Benjamin from 442 about a 2nd tier in Australia and I think he nails why it is a long way off
Realistically, if the A-League move onto the $60m/year deal that’s being talked about, you would expect that the best the 2nd tier would get would be around the $20m/year we’re already getting – gate receipts would inevitably be lower, sponsorship would be lower, corporate hospitality would be lower, and the chances of getting into the ACL would be negligible… All this and at the same time operating costs would be virtually the same as the A-League.
I don’t see where the minimum 8 franchises would come from – especially considering that so few of the bids for the A-League franchises have been able to get anywhere near the required financing.
I talk to lots of football fans, I reckon anecdotally only half those follow the A-League coz most fans of the EPL etc don’t take our league seriously. The way the league is structured is part of that.
The 6 teams from 10 is obviously poor for credibility, no argument from me their.
albe said | December 23rd 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
yeah the second tier won’t be here tomorrow, but the league overall should be set up to allow for that (with P&R) down the track. The media deal won’t come close to the top league for A2, but its more of a development league and most wouldn’t be ready for the top flight. The operating costs would only match the top tier for those teams with immediate ambitions for promotion.
Whether the interest is there to fill say eight spots? Something that only a debate and sounding out of interests will achieve. But we already have four or five waiting in the wings, who missed out on the first 12 spots.
Maybe those guys would love the chance to play off on the pitch for promotion, rather than just having to convince the FFA board. Down the track, it would be ideal for those decisions to be sporting, as well as financial and strategic. (Which is where ‘criteria’ would come in… similar to the deal with the initial A-L licenses.)
Nath FC said | December 23rd 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
I don’t see the problem with the finals series at all. In the future when we have promotion and relegation whilst also having the FFA cup. A final series could still work. For example – The team that finishes first is the premier whilst also recieving the automatic ACL place and the teams that finish 2-5 playoff for the second ACL spot. The same could work the second division. The team that finishes top gets promoted and the teams that finished 2-5 playoff the promotion. This everyone wins. The so called purists get their first past the post and the media / FFA / Fans get a finals series and the FFA cup.
Footbal Person said | December 23rd 2009 @ 11:48am | Report comment
“Here is a question though – as a fan, would you prefer if your club won the Prem or the Champ? Okay, a genie has told you you could have one or the other, but not both. Which do you want? I want the Prem. ”
First of all I like your system and definetly favour first past the post, however as to what trophe I would like my club to win (at the moment) is definetly the toilet seat because of its prestige, when compared to the ( insert comical nickname here ).
Simmo said | December 24th 2009 @ 10:33am | Report comment
“Here is a question though – as a fan, would you prefer if your club won the Prem or the Champ? Okay, a genie has told you you could have one or the other, but not both. Which do you want? I want the Prem. ”
Winning the GF is probably the bigger *event*. As such, I’d like to win it in Melbourne against the Victory. That would be so sweet I’d die of diabetes.