More people watching as the NRL crumbles at the top
By apaway, 31 Dec 2009 apaway is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- AFL, Danny Wicks, david gallup, Jake Friend, NRL, Rugby League
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If there were any celebrations at the National Rugby League headquarters over the news of the television ratings figures for the year, they were understandably muted.
For the first time, rugby league drew higher television numbers nationally than the AFL, a hefty percentage increase giving the NRL a much-needed boost after another bout of bad publicity.
The news came just a day or so after Jake Friend used up his last strike in another alcohol-fueled incident which ultimately cost the young player his job with the Sydney Roosters. Friend’s name can be added to the rugby league dishonour role of 2009 which includes Stewart, Watmough, Mason, Myles, Fittler, Bird, Seymour, Gallen and Johns, all of whom committed infractions, alleged or proved, of varying degrees of severity but with the common denominator being over-consumption of alcohol.
Add to that the police drug squad hauling Danny Wicks away with subsequent serious allegations levelled at seemingly half the Newcastle Knights team, and league CEO David Gallup could be forgiven for breaking into a cold sweat every time he opened the newspaper.
This litany of bad behaviour doesn’t seem to be affecting league viewership at the top level. In many ways, rugby league is a perfect TV game. Almost all the action takes place in the 10-20 metres between the attacking and defending teams, and that action can be fast, hard-hitting and breathtakingly skillful. The camera misses very little. In comparison, so much happens in an AFL game a long way from the ball, scintillating marks and great goals notwithstanding, that it is a game best viewed live at the ground.
But the adverse publicity is almost certainly hitting the game at junior level. Participation rates in key areas are low, with football proving up to five times as popular in a number of Sydney LGAs, and Aussie Rules, basketball and rugby union drawing kids in greater numbers. While parents haven’t been surveyed en masse, it would be foolish to assume that the image of the NRL isn’t a factor in them steering their kids away from the game. It mightn’t be the only reason, but it is a reason. And this is despite the NRL pouring a lot of money into junior development and keeping registration costs close to nothing in many cases.
Why does the game seem beset by these problems? Other codes have had their issues without doubt, but the sheer volume of League incidents outweighs Union, AFL and football combined. It can’t be the scrutiny – all sports stars live in fish bowls these days, more so in overseas sporting competitions. There have been allegations of a drinking culture in League, given it is a game played predominantly by young men between the ages of 18 and 25. But young men play other sports. There have been suggestions that the NRL’s issues are simply a mirror of society. Perhaps, but they would seem to be a magnifying glass more than a mirror.
Consider this scenario: Many NRL teams enforce total drinking bans during pre-season training or at significant periods in the year. Players are breath-tested every day and train hard to attain an elite level of fitness for 8-10 weeks. They are then rewarded with a weekend off, and are told to let their hair down. They go out for a night on the drink, are in peak physical shape (and alcohol affects fit people a lot more quickly than those of lesser condition), are largely or completely unsupervised, and are caught up in the heady mateship of bonding with team mates.
Why not provide a loaded gun, too?
It doesn’t mean players shouldn’t take responsibility for their actions, not at all. But the scenario described happens frequently, and it would only take three or four standard drinks in this situation for a player to be intoxicated and unable to make rational choices for themselves. Before long, the group is binge drinking. Consider that many young players at NRL clubs are living far from home, without parental supervision, and may have done so since before they were of legal drinking age.
Perhaps it would be healthier and safer if clubs allowed players to have a couple of drinks a week, in line with medical guidelines (and all clubs have doctors on staff who could inform players what the guidelines are). It wouldn’t affect fitness levels and would eliminate the pattern of binge drinking that seems to lead to most of the trouble in the game.
As well, maybe clubs should be ensuring that any team bonding session involving alcohol include officials or senior players who are able to monitor players and give them a tap on the shoulder when they’ve had enough. Bar and hospitality staff are now required to complete a course in Responsible Service of Alcohol; perhaps it wouldn’t be a stretch if players did the course too. Self and peer-monitoring might work better than getting into an argument with a bouncer, fueled by VB courage, notions of invincibility, and not a thought for the headlines the next day.
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rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:16am | Report comment
im a rugger zealot so this is good news, but i thought id extend this out to this article, which is a bit old yet still relevant about rugby leagues main star feeder
http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=13782
Rugby league at risk in Catholic schools: Sydney CEO head
Published: May 15, 2009
Following a Four Corners expose of rugby league sex scandals this week, Sydney Catholic Education Office executive director, Dan White, has said the code ran the risk of ending its historic relationship with the Catholic education system.
Dr White said serious misgivings were held over the Four Corners exposé of systemic mistreatment of women, Rugby League HQ reports.
Dr White, a former junior league referee, said the code ran the risk of ending its historic relationship with the Catholic education system, which has produced such players as Peter Sterling, Ben Elias, Jason Taylor and the current Brisbane Broncos coach, Ivan Henjak.
“People responsible for rugby league have to realise that organisations like ourselves are concerned that if this sort of behaviour goes on in the future we have to review our association with the code or club concerned,” Dr White said.
“Any sport not in keeping with the ethos and values of our school system over the long term runs the risk of being discontinued as the preferred sport in our schools.”
Dr White said he had been “extremely disappointed” at the belated response of the Cronulla Sharks to take ownership of the incident in 2002 that involved Johns and other club members, but said he was heartened by the strong leadership during the crisis of the NRL chief executive, David Gallop.
Dr White said every rugby league club associated with a Catholic school needed to declare its players’ code of conduct and the education and mentoring programs that were in place.
St Gregory’s College, Campbelltown, one of the premier rugby league schools in Australia, has planned a school assembly to discuss the scandal. The headmaster, Damien Millar, said a school foundation meeting on Tuesday night had decided that a whole of school assembly was required.
The headmaster of Holy Cross College, Ryde, Adam Taylor, said Catholic school principles were more important than any sport: “Our school is not driven by rugby league but by patrician values. We tell the boys that Christ is in every person you see; that is, respect the dignity of every person. We have seen with players’ treatment of women that the morality is all wrong.”
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as a private catholic school old boy id like to see the rugby catholic schools push the league ones through.
Kurt said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:17am | Report comment
Hmmm, being lectured by the Roman Catholic Church on ‘morality’, what an interesting concept.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:02am | Report comment
I’m sure the Catholic schools will be falling over themselves to embrace the rugby role models that have been in the news lately..
jimbo said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:08am | Report comment
No, they’re converting heathens to Roman Catholic Football.
Mushi said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:12am | Report comment
I’d rather the troubles of the NRL than the genocide, paedophilia, misogyny and colonialism encouraged over the eyars by the catholic church.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:31am | Report comment
but the fact is that so much of rugby league’s power comes from it being played in these catholic system schools they cant ignore it
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:41am | Report comment
But has anything changed since that comment? Have any schools stopped playing League since those comments where made?
It’s just the media looking for someone to inflame the situation by reporting on outlandish statements, which they couldn’t actually go through with anyhow. Seems they got you hook line and sinker.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:44am | Report comment
a couple of them have started auxillary rugby union teams, but yeh i sorta understand your point, but that was released by the catholic education office though as a bit of a warning, wasn’t it?
Kurt said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:16am | Report comment
All very interesting, but I would argue that there is not a single case ANYWHERE in the world where the poor behaviour of athletes has had a measurable detrimental impact upon the popularity of a particular sport in terms of TV ratings and attendances. I spent Christmas with a bunch of Brits who bemoaned the generally reprehensible behaviour of EPL players – don’t see the British working classes turning away from soccer any time soon. Hardly a week goes by here in the US where an NFL or NBA player doesn’t do something REALLY bad – I’m not talking taking a dump in a hotel corridor, I’m talking gang-related shootings, murders, all sorts of anti-social behaviour, and yet these sports continue to dominate the country. AFL drug-taking? Sells plenty of copies of the Herald-Sun, not much else. NRL player misbehaviour? Again, sells papers but doesn’t seem to turn the punters off.
Mushi said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:13am | Report comment
I wrote an article once that our tacit approval is more than partly to blame for the situation. If we don’t hold them accountable, and we don’t , then why would we expect anything to change?
Beast-A-Tron said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
“If we don’t hold them accountable, and we don’t , then why would we expect anything to change?”
Because we don’t hold ourselves accountable to the same standards as we apply to so-called ‘role models’.
Billo said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:24am | Report comment
Like rugbyfuture I also come from a Catholic private school background.
Rugby League is in a very interesting position in Sydney, which results from it having very little representation in the private school sector.
People like me and rugbyfuture have been not only indoctrinated in rugby at private school, but we have also, in many cases, been taught to be disdainful of rugby league. That characteristic is very apparent in many of the rugby posters on this site, and I thought the same way until I played league, ironically in England.
The irony is that when apaway writes that, “Other codes have had their issues without doubt, but the sheer volume of League incidents outweighs Union, AFL and football combined,” he really is living in a dreamworld, and so is the director of the Sydney Catholic Education Office.
Anyone who thinks that league players are more prone to alcohol fuelled incidents than other sportsmen are crazy. In my experience league players are generally far more sober individuals than most other sportsmen, particularly rugby players, but it suits the media to focus on every minor indiscretion committed by a league player. We rugby players (and I was a very modest one), on the other hand, have always been able to cover our backsides, and our behaviour has been excused as just high jinks.
Private schools are becoming the majority form of education in Australia, and league faces a whole barrage of contempt from many of the people who run these organizations, as well as academics in universities.
The new Commission that will run the game needs to develop a policy to get the game treated with respect in this educational environment, otherwise it will be killed by the snobbery and class phobias that have seen league held back in England, and that sees someone like Dan White making a comment without really thinking very deeply about what he says.
Siva Samoa said | December 31st 2009 @ 5:56am | Report comment
Billo, I got to agree with you on one point that rugby players drink just has much as the league players but thats not the point here. The point is that when players are intoxicated or drunk of their face most rugby guys are more responsible than their rugby league counterparts.
Brian said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
No – the rugby players just aren’t as well known
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
i still prefer Rugby Union, as a prop forward, i can actually play the game, where as league, if you arent just another flanker or centre or wing, you really cant play
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
As a RU prop, you aren’t good for any much sport on the planet, other than Sumo wrestling and the NFL.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
thats a bit harsh for an opinion master blaster, and considering the Rugby league is slowly changing its rules to more fit NFL rules its not for you to say. i would hate to meet you in public, coz you’re obviously a little bitch who cant see any merit to much at all, how old are you, 30? 40?, probably stuck in a dead end job and not doing anything in life, before you try and pick on anyone you don’t know, think about your own life, and what forces you to think of hateful words, because one day, you’ll piss off the wrong people
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
My comment was aimed at RU props, not you individually. It’s ok for you to fire off cheap shots at rugby league, but you don’t have any taste for a response?
All I did was point out the how ludicrous your statement was: “i still prefer Rugby Union, as a prop forward, i can actually play the game, where as league, if you arent just another flanker or centre or wing, you really cant play”
Both are different sports, so why bother with a ridiculous comparison? You could have just as readily pointed to socccer and AFL as having no role for a Matt Dunning either.
Everyone knows that every sport attracts varying body shapes and skill sets.
Everyone knows that a web forum attracts varying opinions.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
leagueys tend to be proud of having only the faster guys in their sport, it is hard not to draw comparisons for the different sports since they are continuously compared by both us ruggers and the leagueys, dont make this as though Union boys are th only ones who compare the two sports, league boys do it just as frequently as us as they are still quite similar, much like american gridiron and canadian gridiron. the explanation and opinion are not absurd at all. by your language rather you did personally attack me, as you said as an RU prop YOU arent much good for anything.
comparing my skillset, which you have no knowledge of is by contrast, rather ludicrous on your part.
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
For some reason you think I’m having personal shots at you. All I have been doing is responding to written words.
How about you tell us what other sport is the skill set of RU prop forward good for?
If you’re saying that you personally have far wider skills than that of a RU prop, then why did you say that you couldn’t play RL?
And I have not and will not engage you in a personal slanging match, so don’t bother spraying more personal abuse in your reply.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
i played tennis, swimming, waterpolo, soccer and i suspect many props would have enjoyed field athletics, all played by many other props at school level
Ken said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
rugbyfuture – you have stated that you have a body type that is suitable for playing RU as a prop, tennis, swimming, waterpolo, soccer and field athletics. In that case I find it difficult to believe that you then can’t find a position on a RL field that suits you when you consider that the game is played by people as disparate as Preston Campbell and Willie Mason.
Of course you don’t have to play or like RL, from your remarks about MB age you’re obviously young and never wrong. Saying that you don’t fit on the field when you have stated your other varied sporting talents though seems like a pretty weak argument
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
Ken – much like master blaster your using general nonsense and cliched opinion to back your opinion of me. I didn’t initially use that in my argument, a used it as a rebuttle to Master Blasters insistence that RU props have no other talents or places in the sporting world. The Rugby league world though is also dependant on Stockiness which is not similar to tthe heights of mason or campbell.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
Props fulfil an essential role in rugby. Somewhere for us locks to ruin their ears on the shorts of, when they forget their headgear. Oh, and extra padding to push against the scrum for us too.
Working Class Rugger said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
As a Rugby Prop I’d used to easily make it into my school League teams and consistently record the highest average metres made. It is easy when you’re bigger and stronger than everyone else and used to playing 35min halves instead of 25min as they do in Schoolboy RL.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
I think rugbyfuture’s comment that “you arent just another flanker or centre or wing” was aimed at the body type that league requires. Rugby has tended to be a game for all shapes and sizes, which is one of the reasons it is so reluctant to change its laws quickly, for fear of losing that aspect (along with the constant contest for the ball).
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
You mean the body type of a Shane Webcke or Mark O’Meley? Right.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
I don’t know that Webcke or O’Meley would be prop forwards in union. I think they would be more suited to hooker or Number 8. Having said that, given the different demands, they might get bigger and slower to play prop in union, which then wouldn’t suit league.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
I think it has already changed from being a game that can be played by all shapes and sizes at the top levels. Being fit is more important these days, just look at the body shape of most International Props, they aren’t the same as they were 20 years ago.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
DoW, when you are playing at the top level in any sport, the fitness requirements change your body. The wingers of today are as big as the props of 20 years ago in union. However, I don’t know that some union players could ever play league. Guys like Benn Robinson or Matt Dunning may simply not have been able to be the right body type for any position in league.
I.e. every little fat kid, runt or bean pole can play union, even at the top level if fit and skilled enough …
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
“I.e. every little fat kid, runt or bean pole can play union, even at the top level if fit and skilled enough”
Well said! That is precisely the best attribute of the game. But if certain reformers ever get their way, the game outside the pro level will be dead.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Explain how guys like Owen Craige, Mark Tookey and Jarryd Hickey survived. If anything guys like Matt Dunning would go better in League as they can be interchanged off the field as impact players, doing their 15mins each half and then getting a breather.
While their are no shortage of small guys like Preston Campbell, Johnathon Thurston, Chris Sandow etc who play the game.
Both games accommodate different body shapes very well.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
DoW, I don’t know that they would do as well now. League is becoming faster and faster, with the players more and more the same size.
Guys like Campbell are rarer. And Thurston isn’t small!
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
Jarryd Hickey is a current player at the Bulldogs. The Bulldogs use him very well considering his size and body shape.
While all those little guys are current NRL players. Thurston was a weed when he started playing League, he has built up, as I am sure anyone who made any type of high grade would, even if they played Union they would still need to bulk up or be considered a liability. And it’s not as if Union has many small guys who are similar to any of the guys I listed playign at the top level.
The Bulldogs have another weedy guy comign through (Ben Barba), watch out for him, he is a bit of a pocket dynamite.
Springs said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
Campbell, Orford, Burrow, the majority of hookers, Perrett, Hodgson, Morris, Gidley etc All representative players who are small. I don’t many small wingers or centres in Union any more either. Weren’t Sailor and Tuqiri the Aussie wingers a few years back?
Churchill was only 65-70 kg, but back then props were only 85-90 kg, so the ratio of small to big players isstill the same.
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
Bay35Pablo – every one of the Wallabies is over 180cms aren’t they?
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
will genia 174cm , matt giteau 178cm, tyrone smith 178cm, all the Kangaroos players are above 178 cm
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
So there is Genia only. Everyone else is no shorter than a Kangaroo. Hardly proves that RU is the sole home of “a game for all shapes and sizes”. Genia is taller than Gregan. You can bet that if the Wallabies had Thurston or Cronk then Genia wouldn’t be there.
Springs said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
Tyrone Smith is a former League player. The Kangaroos have 5 players which are 178 cm, Farah, Cronk, jennings, Gidley and Slater. Wallabies have ONE player below 178cm.
Ken said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
George Rose playing for Manly isn’t exactly an Olympic sprinter. I think maybe too big a deal is being made of this. I think both codes accomodate more body shapes than any other football code (and most other sports too). At the top grades of both though, fast and strong guys tend to outnumber fat and slow guys. The biggest of the union props probably wouldn’t find a spot in a league team but as MasterBlaster pointed out, there’s not a lot of lilttle guys running around the top tiers of rugby anymore either.
BTW Campbell’s size isn’t that rare, off the top of my head similar sized guys would be Soward, Prince, Sandow. Slater and Stewart are a bit taller but considering they are training as full time sportsmen they’re still pretty skinny guys
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
except the wallabies heights go far beyond those of the kangaroos, and the body shapes are quite radical compared to league, height isnt everything to do with shape and size
Springs said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
The shortest player in the English League team this year was Eastmond at 168cm and their tallest was Crabtree at 198 cm and 121Kg. Now i would say that is a different body shape.
Realist said | January 1st 2010 @ 11:40pm | Report comment
What do skillful rugby union players and Santa Claus have in common?
They don’t exist!
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:10am | Report comment
thats why the RL stole all the RU players in the first days?
adrien2166 said | January 1st 2010 @ 10:21pm | Report comment
ahahahaha that’s really true! i love this comment! prop forward in rugby union are fat and unfit
rugbyfuture said | January 1st 2010 @ 10:31pm | Report comment
get over yourself mate, you probably couldnt play it at all
adrien2166 said | January 2nd 2010 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
rugbyfuture, yes i played union during 10years and played for french representative team under 16 then i switched to league at 16 but i think i was wrong because league is a hardest game than union, the skills are more specific and hard to realise,like the offload when you’ve got 3defenders on you, or tackle. The tackle is more difficult to do in league because there is only one defensive line and the forwards offload much better than in union.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
the skills are broader because they play a more lineal game, they are more specific in terms of an overall game tactic but Ruggers need to focus on particular skills for their position as well as the broader game.
theres no such thing as Forwards in RL, just heavy backs
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
adrien2166, the skills focus is slightly different too, because of the play the ball. A league runner has to worry much less about losing the ball, and not at all about hanging onto it once tackled. Union runners have to always be thinking about hanging on and recycling. This produces some differences in kind set, and means union’s approach can be more conservative due to the risk involved.
Springs said | January 2nd 2010 @ 3:36pm | Report comment
Forwards are just ‘heavy backs’ ay? Is that why I see so many prop forwards practicing catching bombs, or chasing grubbers, or diving in the corner, or intercepting, or kicking goals/bombs/chip kicks. A scrum doesn’t make a forward.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
yes springs, but pushing, contesting, ripping, clearing out and mauling does.
Springs said | January 2nd 2010 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
So does taking hit-ups, making 30-40 tackles, dummy-half work, cover defending, running overs/unders lines, complicated set/decoy plays, and lots of hardwork. League and Union forwards are different and have different jobs to do, but they are all forwards.
Realist said | January 1st 2010 @ 11:48pm | Report comment
I played prop forward in rugby union when I was 15. I was much smaller than the other props, but I was just as efficient as them in the scrum and at the breakdown. I also played as a break-away and lock (sorry, I won’t use that stupid term ‘number 8′).
Rugby union is an easy game to play. I found it much easier to clean out the opposition players at the ruck, knock all the opposition players over when I ran the ball (rugby union players tend to be poor defenders) and set up rolling mauls than playing as a second-rower in rugby league.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:11am | Report comment
well you’re obviously a good player, shouldn’t you be playing pro by now?, it was probably a bit hard to start a maul in RL since they dont have them anymore
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:38am | Report comment
Realist
You’re kidding right. All you have to do is remember to run straight as a forward in League and on occasion pass the ball. Funny thing ,however, I had the same experiences as you in League. Catch the ball, run at the line, watch as the defender’s either fall off or being trambled underneath my boots, score the try. Pretty easy day out actually. Fortunately I had Rugby to satisfy my confrontational requirements. At least there I had to work for my metres. I wish I had encountered you when you were 15. Would have been fun.
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:33am | Report comment
Working Class Rugger,
Doesn’t your lot (rugby union players/coaches) rely on ex-rugby league players to teach you how to tackle?
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
Realist. a number of coaches like Muggleon and Kiss were recruited some years ago because rugby’s leap into professionalism meant union went from having a limited coaching staff who handled everything to being able to have specialist coaches. As such, it was sensible to employ these blokes to bring their existing systems and approach to union rather than having someone invent them from scratch.
One of the reasons Australian union was so successful in the late 1990s was because it was IMHO able to adopt much from league, which other countries didn’t as much beacuse league wasn’t as big as here.
So thanks for the hand me downs, they served us well.
And I can’t see Muggo and Kissie coming back to league any time soon, they are having too much fun seeing the world and earning great coin!!!!
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 10:18pm | Report comment
“Realist. a number of coaches like Muggleon and Kiss were recruited some years ago because rugby’s leap into professionalism meant union went from having a limited coaching staff who handled everything to being able to have specialist coaches. As such, it was sensible to employ these blokes to bring their existing systems and approach to union rather than having someone invent them from scratch.” — Bay35Pablo
Maybe so, but this doesn’t explain why there are so many ex-rugby league players involved in the coaching ranks in 2010. A week or two ago I across a rugby union journalist’s article on the amount of ex-rugby league players who are involved in the coaching ranks.
“And I can’t see Muggo and Kissie coming back to league any time soon, they are having too much fun seeing the world and earning great coin!!!!” — Bay35Pablo
Your code is paying a lot of money for a couple of men who were relatively unknown in the rugby league community. If your code is willing to pay a fortune for mediocrity then us rugby league fans will just sit back and laugh.
Dan said | January 8th 2010 @ 9:17am | Report comment
This is a disturbing trend in Sydney’s private schools. It’s that kind of elitism that actually stifles the spread of Union in my opinion. I went to a public school in Randwick that decided to play Union and dumped League because that way it could pool its resources and send the team travelling to the UK, France, Japan etc. However, we were never taught to be “disdainful” of Rugby League… in fact we all supported a league team along side a union one.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 5:27am | Report comment
Oh dear, another clueless attack on rugby league by a soccer cheerleader…it’s starting to get monotonous. The number of factual errors in this article would go close to setting a Roar record. It is simply a rehash of a number of issues that have been debated in these forums ad nauseum.
mahony said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:57am | Report comment
It is OK Mick – you can just dribble out a string of stereotypes about sheilas, wogs, poofters and violence as many egg-ball fans do. These stereotypes are just as relevant to the debate about the value of the beautiful game and its future in Australia as the litany of drunken, women bashing, public defecating egg-ball players are……
On the topic – I am delighted to hear that the NRL ratings are so strong. I was only telling an AFL supporter (my boss) the other day that it was a mistake to write off the NRL and that its future is assured at the elite level (for what it is in global terms). IMO it will be the AFL that will come down from the dizzy heights of oligopoly as football grows in Australia over the next 20 years. Time will tell and the ‘code wars’ will rage regardless.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
Sheilas, wos, poofters???
What are you talking about?
I was defending my game against a nonsensical attack….where did I attack soccer?
mahony said | January 1st 2010 @ 9:49pm | Report comment
MIck, I was simply suggesting there were well-worn counter arguments to any of this articles offensive anti-NRL propaganda to be made if you were so inclined.
Your tone was clearly one of exasperation with the view of the author and many football fans (and fans of other sports) who agree with the tenor of this article which quite reasonably juxtaposed excellent NRL TV data with appalling PR disasters.
Football supporters (or clueless “soccer cheerleaders” as you snidely dismiss them) have seen it all before from better than you for over 130 years – the direct, the tacit and the paranoid. If you were not having a go at the football community then I retract – but your language suggests otherwise IMO. Have a shot at the code on its merits as you see them by all means – but give the supporters a break for loving their game.
BYW, how are junior rugby numbers faring in the booming upper-middle class estates of the northern suburbs of Canberra? And does St Edmund’s still create a league player of quality once in a while? Thought so…
Mick from Giralang said | January 2nd 2010 @ 6:57pm | Report comment
Mahony: Well may I sound exasperated. Rugby league supporters regularly have to weather ignorant and snide attacks on their game from cheerleaders from other codes who are envious at rugby league’s success and profile. This article is simply another off the production line
Despite your recommendation I do not intend to attack soccer as a game. The various codes should be allowed to survive or fall on their merits — on that basis I am more than confident of rugby league’s onoing and growing success.
But make no mistake — unwarranted and unbalanced attacks on rugby league will not go unchallenged. I sense a growing and well articulated backlash against the spin and propoganda regularly wheeled out against rugby league. This is no doubt a new and uncomfortable situation for the supporters of other codes — well, you’d better get used to it.
I know this will be equally unpleasant news for you — but rugby league, particularly at the junior level, is thriving in Canberra’s north.. Witness the growth and onfield success of the North Canberra Bears, a club with which I have some association. Sadly, its rugby counterpart is on life support.
Equally disappointing for you will be the news that rugby league at the elite level has no need for rugger players from the private schools. The various rugby league competitions in the district and surrounding bush have provided the nucleus of a Raiders squad that promises much over the coming seasons.
Crosscoder said | December 31st 2009 @ 5:50am | Report comment
I come from an Anglican private school background,and I echo Billos’ thoughts and comments. to a T.The attititude at times for rl players by some , was as stated, disdainful(and that was from the teaching side for starters).I suggest, I was a very ordinary ru player,(3rds).
I also not a comment made by rugby writer Greg Growden in the SMH a couple of years ago,when he stated,he lost count of the number of incidents in the code at school and club level,that were simple swept under the carpet.
He mentioned this after a father at a ru schoolboy match between Sydney Boys and another GPs school got involved in an altercation,and after a schollboys all in brawl.
The comment about the larger proportion of rl players misbehaving, when one has heard and read of late allegegations and incidents involving players from other codes,only proves the point.The majority of the public knows this sort of behaviour happens in all codes,in all walks of life.
The little darlings(many in their 18th or approaching 18th year) that traipse off to the Gold Coast for schoolies week(and commit any sort ofanti soocial deed),many from private schools,give a classic example of the problem in society.Probably the same parents that tut tut,when a sportsman goes off the rails.I have seen it first hand,the hypocrisy is overwhelming.
And whilst I respect rugbyfutures example as he stated it is in reality old fish and chip wrapping news ,not exactly 5 minutes ago.A lot of water has gone under the bridge since.
Are we to take away our kids from schools such as St Stans in Bathurst or Knox Grammar because of allegations by teachers over the years.Or prevent our children from becoming policemen due to graft and corruption by some.Or business men who rip off the public.Some people really need to pull the wool away fom their eyes.
For the benefit of the author APAWAY.
BTW apart from the increase in Tv viewing figures,crowds were up in the NRL this year,going against the general sporting grain,and I participation figure are on the increase,whilst awaiting the full official figures.
However i do have ones provided by the NRL not including school figures.
2009 Participation figures are set to break last years record levels:
Club registrations are up 6.8% to 162,095 ,the largest in the game’s history
Almost 4,000 new juniors aged 6 to 18 tregistered with clubs to create a new junior participation recored of 124,319
Senior numbers increased significantly,with an increase of almost of 10% representing the biggest 1 year lift in more than a decade.Masters rl continues to grow with national championships on teh GC and more than 10 throughout the country.
More than 2,500 girsl across Australia participated in the new Harvey Norman Girls tackle(repeat tackle) competitions for 14-16 year olds.”
As a converted rl zealot,I find these figures with all that had gone on this year offfield,not only encouraging but outstanding.
I dread to think what the figures will grow to ,when rl players do the right thing off the field.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
Crosscoder, can you give a link for that stats please?
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
I doubt that they will ever get that much larger, as the NRL gets more like NFL being faster and stronger. What’s needed is the NRL to get control of something like Oztag and use that to get more people involved in the game (both sexes), and use that to it’s advantage as a game that everyone can enjoy at a social level.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
you and billo must of gone to one of the GPS or Knox or one of the sports scholarship schools or equivalents from the other states, which i think create a hatred, at aloys we learned to love the game, even when we were losing, there certainly wasnt an emphasis put onto a disdain for Rugby League, indeed many of our teachers were leagueys, and we were better at soccer anyways. Methinks that the sports scholarship programs and high emphasis on winning at those other private schools are what are spurning the everyday man who won’t ever be in the schoolboys squad.
M1tch said | December 31st 2009 @ 6:11am | Report comment
yawn article of the year..
yeh players stuff up, but the NRL administrators actually punish players, they are not given free rides..
the ratings and even crowds show the game itself is in great shape..
Redb said | December 31st 2009 @ 6:17am | Report comment
The NRL did not out rate the AFL on TV according to even Roy Masters.
Ken said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Do we need this argument again? I think everything’s been said a million times before. What if we just start with the summary and get it over with : Captial cities numbers are won by AFL and this is the most important for the stations and advertisers, the NRL wins if you include regionals. All numbers are estimates and float around depending on their source and don’t take into account people watching at pubs…. whichever source you’re talking about the winner gets by on 1-2% – can we just call it a draw and say both are pretty popular?
Mushi said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:15am | Report comment
You’re flaw is that you are asking for both sides to show a level of maturity and logic Ken, when clearly my code is better than theirs
K.B. said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:11am | Report comment
Why can’t you accept the truth … just once… ?
~~~~~~
KB
Redb said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
If people keep beleiving it to be true then it has to be challenged until they accept that there is two sides to a story and not all is as they beleive/told.
Redb
John Ryan said | December 31st 2009 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Trolling again Rebd,difference is more people are interested in RL than RU and it has a high profile,so you take the good with the bad.
RU is a class based sport
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 6:21am | Report comment
Little bit of research by the author would have showed that League runs classes in being responsible on the drink, as well on the Dally M night no alcohol was available as compared to the Brownlow medal night.
It will take 10-15 years (a generation of League players) for the changes in how clubs and players view alcohol to get through , and even then League players will only be a representation of society as a whole, so we will still have our fair share of bad eggs.
Not sure why someone would write this article, and why this website would allow it.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 6:51am | Report comment
It’s the silly season…
sheek said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:29am | Report comment
There is more than one indicator to judge a sorting code’s health. While NRL is riding high in TV ratings, I think it’s behind AFL in attendance figures. And financially, league is perhaps the most fragile of the 4 footy codes.
Yes, it generates more money than union, but it’s debt ratio is also huge. Many clubs are close to the that line & are being propped up, year after year, by hand outs from NRL & News Ltd.
This is all to say union & league will merge in Australia. Maybe merge isn’t the right word, but they’ll come together in some fashion.
Neither code is the complete article by themselves. League has the players & the clubs, but union seems to have a better pathway to the big end of town & accessing financial sources.
But them together & they would have some mighty combined clout. Union will be the game they play. It is a matter of conjecture what concessions league would be able to secure.
But they would be able to protect their famous icons – the clubs. Or save most of them anyway.
I’m not deliberately stirring the pot. I like both codes, but I believe a re-union is inevitable.
I’m on hols down the south coast of NSW, so don’t expect any immediate responses from me!!!
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Your kidding if you think they will ever combine. The only chance is that they will come under the same umbrella (IRB) and be Rugby 13 and Rugby 15, with most countries playing League in the summer, and Union in the winter, helps all those clubs fund stadiums as well when they are used all year around.
sheek said | January 1st 2010 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
Dogs,
i guess time will be the master of whether I’m right in my views. I’ve learnt from expereince not to be dogmatic about anything.
My starting premise as always is that neither code is the complete article, & in Australia, both can bring different but complimentary bargaining chips to the table.
rugbyfuture said | January 1st 2010 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
that would be kinda cool if you had the two under the same umbrella with them for different seasons, quite awesome in fact
Brian said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:12am | Report comment
I certainly respect your opinion and all and this is coming from a distinctly rugby league distorted angle but the reason the codes will never merge in Australia is down to the on field product. Rugby League, as proven through its patronage, has got the on field product spot on. Whilst ever a game can be won by the best goalkicker, there is no reason why rugby league would want to merge.
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:11am | Report comment
Rugby union is the only code in Australia that is likely to die: the ASB’s stats show that the majority of Australians who play rugby union are persons who were born in other English speaking countries; Super Rugby is shunned by the commercial FTA networks because it doesn’t rate well; there’s no national club competition because there isn’t enough interest for one; the NYC outrates Super Rugby; the Socceroos’ growing profile is killing off the Wallabies’ appeal to investors and laypeople because unlike RU, soccer is a truly global sport.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:23am | Report comment
Link?
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:40am | Report comment
4156.0.55.001 – Perspectives on Sport, May 2009
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:25am | Report comment
and also one proving rugby league is the opposite
Siva Samoa said | January 7th 2010 @ 8:16am | Report comment
And rugby leagues players were born in Lebanese speaking countries . Is that what you are saying Realist ? Rugby league would likely to die in NZ before that happens to rugby union in Australia.
Dogs Of War said | January 7th 2010 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Union would never die, at worst, just return to an amateur only game. But even that is inconceivable, as League tends to build off Union, the reverse would be true in Australia, in that Union can steal League players (even at a junior level like U20′s) to stay competitive at the higher levels.
Siva Samoa said | January 7th 2010 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Australian rugby doesn’t need to still league players from any level to stay competitive at the highest level. The majority already playing now all agme from rugby clubs, schools and juniors. There is enough players coming from schools and clubs to make Australian rugby competitive but its the rugby structures in each states that fail them.
The ARU has got to have third tier competition or a national competition for under 19′s or 20′s to give this kids experience.
Foxy Loxy said | January 7th 2010 @ 9:19am | Report comment
“There is enough players coming from schools and clubs to make Australian rugby competitive” Oh that is GOLD! Competitive?? Please list here for us all Siva the 21st century trophies won by the Wallabies and Waratahs, REds, Force & Brumbies!!!
What’s “structures” got to do with it? If you’re any good you get into a Super 14 team and then the Wallabies. That’s THE structure! It works fine!
The problem is the lack of quality and number of players, not the pathway.
Siva Samoa said | January 7th 2010 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Do you want to see the trophies won by the same teams from 1900 to 1987 Foxy Loxy ? From school 1st xv or amateur club level to super 14 level is not an ideal structure is it ? they need to have a national club/provincial championship and a national under 20 as well. in brisbane kids coming back from the australian under 19 and under 20 rugby world cup aren’t allowed to play premiership club if they are under 18. that’s like coming back from the wallabies and then asked to play club level but not super 14.
Jay said | January 7th 2010 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
Its easy to justify RU’s structure in Australia looking at their success in that period. However, the game has changed and come a long way since professionalism. Unfortunatley, RU’s structures have not and you’re kidding yourself if the ARU would love to have another tier between club rugby and S15′s to fill some of that gap.
Jay said | January 7th 2010 @ 8:44am | Report comment
You’re forgetting about the private school system, who produce fantastic rugby players or corporate leaders who will support rugby.
football said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:34am | Report comment
The RL rattings result is up on last year, but you all seem to forget that it is still down on two seasons ago, somewhere in the order of 2%. The fall in AFL ratings is the real story here, with now both AFL & NRL on a downward trend. Last year the poor results were blamed on the olympics (fair enough), but the true question is will the overall downward trend continue.
The other question that needs to be answered is why is News Limited giveing the game away for nothing?
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:39am | Report comment
A lot comes down to what teams are playing well. Obviously when teams like Sharks, Panthers and Roosters are riding high on the table, their is less interest in the game as they are some of the least supported teams in the comp.
As for your other question, why is News Ltd giving away the game. It’s because they are not wanted. They have been selling the game short for ages, and they have no place in running a code like League.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
You’ve gotta laugh when soccer people start talking about TV ratings…
Mushi said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:20am | Report comment
Yes because corporations like to just abandon a profitable enterprise “because they aren’t wanted”. The naivety of some league fans is mind numbing
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:51am | Report comment
It’s not like any money the NRL makes go to shareholders and back to News Ltd. It is invested back into the sport via clubs and junior programs etc. News Ltd understand that they are not seen as the good guys while being involved in Rugby League due to the conflict of interest, and thus where they understand they are not wanted part comes in, if they make an exit that sets the sport up in a good way that they can’t be blamed for any future failures, it leaves their public profile intact. Don’t forget that Lachlan Murdoch loves his Rugby League, and I am sure he doesn’t want to be responsible for it’s downfall.
So really it’s the naivety of some Union fans who keep dreaming that the NRL is going to fall over, and all the supporters will rush to embrace Rugby Union and make that the most popular code are the ones who live in la la land.
How about waiting till the independent commission is up and running, and see what direction the game takes from that point onwards. Really it comes down to the next TV deal for both AFL and the NRL. While Union is already set, and will continue to be ignored on Pay TV, and that TV money they get has to be spread a little more thinly to make sure that the Force and the new Victorian team become viable entities.
Mushi said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
Dogs suggesting that News Corp, bound by fiduciary duty to act in the interests of shareholders, is stepping away because we’ve called it nasty names and not for commercial reasons is insane.
Also how would News be responsible for it’s downfall, you love spouting on about how successful the NRL is reading your comments I struggle to see game that has been driven to the verge of destruction by a corporation. Add to that the beloved commission is looking as independent as conjoined twin.
It baffles me that we hold up the commission like some delivered messiah yet have no clue how it is going to operate other than “independently” (but elected, and hence influenced, by the clubs and leagues?)
AndyRoo said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Isn’t one of the conditions of News leaving first right of refusal on some of the TV product?
That’s all news were interested in before Super League and probably all they are now.
They don’t need to own the game and be responsible for the weekly upkeep to make money from it, just have the Pay TV rights.
Being half owners doesn’t allow them to sell the rights for nix or prevent optus from getting the RL content so why be the owners at all?
That’s more than likely the reason. They can take Gallop and co off the payroll (or use them elsewhere) and still make X dollars from RL.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
Way to twist my words Mushi.
I said “It’s not like any money the NRL makes go to shareholders and back to News Ltd. It is invested back into the sport via clubs and junior programs etc.”
That’s why they are exiting the game. Their is no money to be made, other than what they get via selling the Pay TV rights to itself at a lower value.
As for the Independent Commission. I would like to think it will be created to make the game better, and given it’s being modelled on what the NFL and AFL use, I can’t see it not being better than what we CURRENTLY have.
As for this “Also how would News be responsible for it’s downfall, you love spouting on about how successful the NRL is reading your comments I struggle to see game that has been driven to the verge of destruction by a corporation. .”
How do you explain what happen to the game from 1995 to present. It took a long time for the game to recover from Super League with many teams becoming casualties. Yet you dismiss it as if it didn’t affect the game.
As for how successful the NRL has been, well the crowds are up, TV ratings are up, participation is up, I figure that makes it a success despite what has happened to the game off the field via players etc.