By apaway -
December 31st 2009 @ 12:26am
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More people watching as the NRL crumbles at the top
If there were any celebrations at the National Rugby League headquarters over the news of the television ratings figures for the year, they were understandably muted.
For the first time, rugby league drew higher television numbers nationally than the AFL, a hefty percentage increase giving the NRL a much-needed boost after another bout of bad publicity.
The news came just a day or so after Jake Friend used up his last strike in another alcohol-fueled incident which ultimately cost the young player his job with the Sydney Roosters. Friend’s name can be added to the rugby league dishonour role of 2009 which includes Stewart, Watmough, Mason, Myles, Fittler, Bird, Seymour, Gallen and Johns, all of whom committed infractions, alleged or proved, of varying degrees of severity but with the common denominator being over-consumption of alcohol.
Add to that the police drug squad hauling Danny Wicks away with subsequent serious allegations levelled at seemingly half the Newcastle Knights team, and league CEO David Gallup could be forgiven for breaking into a cold sweat every time he opened the newspaper.
This litany of bad behaviour doesn’t seem to be affecting league viewership at the top level. In many ways, rugby league is a perfect TV game. Almost all the action takes place in the 10-20 metres between the attacking and defending teams, and that action can be fast, hard-hitting and breathtakingly skillful. The camera misses very little. In comparison, so much happens in an AFL game a long way from the ball, scintillating marks and great goals notwithstanding, that it is a game best viewed live at the ground.
But the adverse publicity is almost certainly hitting the game at junior level. Participation rates in key areas are low, with football proving up to five times as popular in a number of Sydney LGAs, and Aussie Rules, basketball and rugby union drawing kids in greater numbers. While parents haven’t been surveyed en masse, it would be foolish to assume that the image of the NRL isn’t a factor in them steering their kids away from the game. It mightn’t be the only reason, but it is a reason. And this is despite the NRL pouring a lot of money into junior development and keeping registration costs close to nothing in many cases.
Why does the game seem beset by these problems? Other codes have had their issues without doubt, but the sheer volume of League incidents outweighs Union, AFL and football combined. It can’t be the scrutiny – all sports stars live in fish bowls these days, more so in overseas sporting competitions. There have been allegations of a drinking culture in League, given it is a game played predominantly by young men between the ages of 18 and 25. But young men play other sports. There have been suggestions that the NRL’s issues are simply a mirror of society. Perhaps, but they would seem to be a magnifying glass more than a mirror.
Consider this scenario: Many NRL teams enforce total drinking bans during pre-season training or at significant periods in the year. Players are breath-tested every day and train hard to attain an elite level of fitness for 8-10 weeks. They are then rewarded with a weekend off, and are told to let their hair down. They go out for a night on the drink, are in peak physical shape (and alcohol affects fit people a lot more quickly than those of lesser condition), are largely or completely unsupervised, and are caught up in the heady mateship of bonding with team mates.
Why not provide a loaded gun, too?
It doesn’t mean players shouldn’t take responsibility for their actions, not at all. But the scenario described happens frequently, and it would only take three or four standard drinks in this situation for a player to be intoxicated and unable to make rational choices for themselves. Before long, the group is binge drinking. Consider that many young players at NRL clubs are living far from home, without parental supervision, and may have done so since before they were of legal drinking age.
Perhaps it would be healthier and safer if clubs allowed players to have a couple of drinks a week, in line with medical guidelines (and all clubs have doctors on staff who could inform players what the guidelines are). It wouldn’t affect fitness levels and would eliminate the pattern of binge drinking that seems to lead to most of the trouble in the game.
As well, maybe clubs should be ensuring that any team bonding session involving alcohol include officials or senior players who are able to monitor players and give them a tap on the shoulder when they’ve had enough. Bar and hospitality staff are now required to complete a course in Responsible Service of Alcohol; perhaps it wouldn’t be a stretch if players did the course too. Self and peer-monitoring might work better than getting into an argument with a bouncer, fueled by VB courage, notions of invincibility, and not a thought for the headlines the next day.
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rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:16am | Report comment
im a rugger zealot so this is good news, but i thought id extend this out to this article, which is a bit old yet still relevant about rugby leagues main star feeder
http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=13782
Rugby league at risk in Catholic schools: Sydney CEO head
Published: May 15, 2009
Following a Four Corners expose of rugby league sex scandals this week, Sydney Catholic Education Office executive director, Dan White, has said the code ran the risk of ending its historic relationship with the Catholic education system.
Dr White said serious misgivings were held over the Four Corners exposé of systemic mistreatment of women, Rugby League HQ reports.
Dr White, a former junior league referee, said the code ran the risk of ending its historic relationship with the Catholic education system, which has produced such players as Peter Sterling, Ben Elias, Jason Taylor and the current Brisbane Broncos coach, Ivan Henjak.
“People responsible for rugby league have to realise that organisations like ourselves are concerned that if this sort of behaviour goes on in the future we have to review our association with the code or club concerned,” Dr White said.
“Any sport not in keeping with the ethos and values of our school system over the long term runs the risk of being discontinued as the preferred sport in our schools.”
Dr White said he had been “extremely disappointed” at the belated response of the Cronulla Sharks to take ownership of the incident in 2002 that involved Johns and other club members, but said he was heartened by the strong leadership during the crisis of the NRL chief executive, David Gallop.
Dr White said every rugby league club associated with a Catholic school needed to declare its players’ code of conduct and the education and mentoring programs that were in place.
St Gregory’s College, Campbelltown, one of the premier rugby league schools in Australia, has planned a school assembly to discuss the scandal. The headmaster, Damien Millar, said a school foundation meeting on Tuesday night had decided that a whole of school assembly was required.
The headmaster of Holy Cross College, Ryde, Adam Taylor, said Catholic school principles were more important than any sport: “Our school is not driven by rugby league but by patrician values. We tell the boys that Christ is in every person you see; that is, respect the dignity of every person. We have seen with players’ treatment of women that the morality is all wrong.”
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as a private catholic school old boy id like to see the rugby catholic schools push the league ones through.
Kurt said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:17am | Report comment
Hmmm, being lectured by the Roman Catholic Church on ‘morality’, what an interesting concept.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:02am | Report comment
I’m sure the Catholic schools will be falling over themselves to embrace the rugby role models that have been in the news lately..
jimbo said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:08am | Report comment
No, they’re converting heathens to Roman Catholic Football.
Mushi said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:12am | Report comment
I’d rather the troubles of the NRL than the genocide, paedophilia, misogyny and colonialism encouraged over the eyars by the catholic church.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:31am | Report comment
but the fact is that so much of rugby league’s power comes from it being played in these catholic system schools they cant ignore it
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:41am | Report comment
But has anything changed since that comment? Have any schools stopped playing League since those comments where made?
It’s just the media looking for someone to inflame the situation by reporting on outlandish statements, which they couldn’t actually go through with anyhow. Seems they got you hook line and sinker.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:44am | Report comment
a couple of them have started auxillary rugby union teams, but yeh i sorta understand your point, but that was released by the catholic education office though as a bit of a warning, wasn’t it?
Kurt said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:16am | Report comment
All very interesting, but I would argue that there is not a single case ANYWHERE in the world where the poor behaviour of athletes has had a measurable detrimental impact upon the popularity of a particular sport in terms of TV ratings and attendances. I spent Christmas with a bunch of Brits who bemoaned the generally reprehensible behaviour of EPL players – don’t see the British working classes turning away from soccer any time soon. Hardly a week goes by here in the US where an NFL or NBA player doesn’t do something REALLY bad – I’m not talking taking a dump in a hotel corridor, I’m talking gang-related shootings, murders, all sorts of anti-social behaviour, and yet these sports continue to dominate the country. AFL drug-taking? Sells plenty of copies of the Herald-Sun, not much else. NRL player misbehaviour? Again, sells papers but doesn’t seem to turn the punters off.
Mushi said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:13am | Report comment
I wrote an article once that our tacit approval is more than partly to blame for the situation. If we don’t hold them accountable, and we don’t , then why would we expect anything to change?
Beast-A-Tron said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
“If we don’t hold them accountable, and we don’t , then why would we expect anything to change?”
Because we don’t hold ourselves accountable to the same standards as we apply to so-called ‘role models’.
Billo said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:24am | Report comment
Like rugbyfuture I also come from a Catholic private school background.
Rugby League is in a very interesting position in Sydney, which results from it having very little representation in the private school sector.
People like me and rugbyfuture have been not only indoctrinated in rugby at private school, but we have also, in many cases, been taught to be disdainful of rugby league. That characteristic is very apparent in many of the rugby posters on this site, and I thought the same way until I played league, ironically in England.
The irony is that when apaway writes that, “Other codes have had their issues without doubt, but the sheer volume of League incidents outweighs Union, AFL and football combined,” he really is living in a dreamworld, and so is the director of the Sydney Catholic Education Office.
Anyone who thinks that league players are more prone to alcohol fuelled incidents than other sportsmen are crazy. In my experience league players are generally far more sober individuals than most other sportsmen, particularly rugby players, but it suits the media to focus on every minor indiscretion committed by a league player. We rugby players (and I was a very modest one), on the other hand, have always been able to cover our backsides, and our behaviour has been excused as just high jinks.
Private schools are becoming the majority form of education in Australia, and league faces a whole barrage of contempt from many of the people who run these organizations, as well as academics in universities.
The new Commission that will run the game needs to develop a policy to get the game treated with respect in this educational environment, otherwise it will be killed by the snobbery and class phobias that have seen league held back in England, and that sees someone like Dan White making a comment without really thinking very deeply about what he says.
Siva Samoa said | December 31st 2009 @ 5:56am | Report comment
Billo, I got to agree with you on one point that rugby players drink just has much as the league players but thats not the point here. The point is that when players are intoxicated or drunk of their face most rugby guys are more responsible than their rugby league counterparts.
Brian said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
No – the rugby players just aren’t as well known
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
i still prefer Rugby Union, as a prop forward, i can actually play the game, where as league, if you arent just another flanker or centre or wing, you really cant play
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
As a RU prop, you aren’t good for any much sport on the planet, other than Sumo wrestling and the NFL.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
thats a bit harsh for an opinion master blaster, and considering the Rugby league is slowly changing its rules to more fit NFL rules its not for you to say. i would hate to meet you in public, coz you’re obviously a little bitch who cant see any merit to much at all, how old are you, 30? 40?, probably stuck in a dead end job and not doing anything in life, before you try and pick on anyone you don’t know, think about your own life, and what forces you to think of hateful words, because one day, you’ll piss off the wrong people
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
My comment was aimed at RU props, not you individually. It’s ok for you to fire off cheap shots at rugby league, but you don’t have any taste for a response?
All I did was point out the how ludicrous your statement was: “i still prefer Rugby Union, as a prop forward, i can actually play the game, where as league, if you arent just another flanker or centre or wing, you really cant play”
Both are different sports, so why bother with a ridiculous comparison? You could have just as readily pointed to socccer and AFL as having no role for a Matt Dunning either.
Everyone knows that every sport attracts varying body shapes and skill sets.
Everyone knows that a web forum attracts varying opinions.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
leagueys tend to be proud of having only the faster guys in their sport, it is hard not to draw comparisons for the different sports since they are continuously compared by both us ruggers and the leagueys, dont make this as though Union boys are th only ones who compare the two sports, league boys do it just as frequently as us as they are still quite similar, much like american gridiron and canadian gridiron. the explanation and opinion are not absurd at all. by your language rather you did personally attack me, as you said as an RU prop YOU arent much good for anything.
comparing my skillset, which you have no knowledge of is by contrast, rather ludicrous on your part.
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
For some reason you think I’m having personal shots at you. All I have been doing is responding to written words.
How about you tell us what other sport is the skill set of RU prop forward good for?
If you’re saying that you personally have far wider skills than that of a RU prop, then why did you say that you couldn’t play RL?
And I have not and will not engage you in a personal slanging match, so don’t bother spraying more personal abuse in your reply.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
i played tennis, swimming, waterpolo, soccer and i suspect many props would have enjoyed field athletics, all played by many other props at school level
Ken said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
rugbyfuture – you have stated that you have a body type that is suitable for playing RU as a prop, tennis, swimming, waterpolo, soccer and field athletics. In that case I find it difficult to believe that you then can’t find a position on a RL field that suits you when you consider that the game is played by people as disparate as Preston Campbell and Willie Mason.
Of course you don’t have to play or like RL, from your remarks about MB age you’re obviously young and never wrong. Saying that you don’t fit on the field when you have stated your other varied sporting talents though seems like a pretty weak argument
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
Ken – much like master blaster your using general nonsense and cliched opinion to back your opinion of me. I didn’t initially use that in my argument, a used it as a rebuttle to Master Blasters insistence that RU props have no other talents or places in the sporting world. The Rugby league world though is also dependant on Stockiness which is not similar to tthe heights of mason or campbell.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
Props fulfil an essential role in rugby. Somewhere for us locks to ruin their ears on the shorts of, when they forget their headgear. Oh, and extra padding to push against the scrum for us too.
Working Class Rugger said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
As a Rugby Prop I’d used to easily make it into my school League teams and consistently record the highest average metres made. It is easy when you’re bigger and stronger than everyone else and used to playing 35min halves instead of 25min as they do in Schoolboy RL.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
I think rugbyfuture’s comment that “you arent just another flanker or centre or wing” was aimed at the body type that league requires. Rugby has tended to be a game for all shapes and sizes, which is one of the reasons it is so reluctant to change its laws quickly, for fear of losing that aspect (along with the constant contest for the ball).
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
You mean the body type of a Shane Webcke or Mark O’Meley? Right.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
I don’t know that Webcke or O’Meley would be prop forwards in union. I think they would be more suited to hooker or Number 8. Having said that, given the different demands, they might get bigger and slower to play prop in union, which then wouldn’t suit league.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
I think it has already changed from being a game that can be played by all shapes and sizes at the top levels. Being fit is more important these days, just look at the body shape of most International Props, they aren’t the same as they were 20 years ago.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
DoW, when you are playing at the top level in any sport, the fitness requirements change your body. The wingers of today are as big as the props of 20 years ago in union. However, I don’t know that some union players could ever play league. Guys like Benn Robinson or Matt Dunning may simply not have been able to be the right body type for any position in league.
I.e. every little fat kid, runt or bean pole can play union, even at the top level if fit and skilled enough …
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
“I.e. every little fat kid, runt or bean pole can play union, even at the top level if fit and skilled enough”
Well said! That is precisely the best attribute of the game. But if certain reformers ever get their way, the game outside the pro level will be dead.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Explain how guys like Owen Craige, Mark Tookey and Jarryd Hickey survived. If anything guys like Matt Dunning would go better in League as they can be interchanged off the field as impact players, doing their 15mins each half and then getting a breather.
While their are no shortage of small guys like Preston Campbell, Johnathon Thurston, Chris Sandow etc who play the game.
Both games accommodate different body shapes very well.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
DoW, I don’t know that they would do as well now. League is becoming faster and faster, with the players more and more the same size.
Guys like Campbell are rarer. And Thurston isn’t small!
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
Jarryd Hickey is a current player at the Bulldogs. The Bulldogs use him very well considering his size and body shape.
While all those little guys are current NRL players. Thurston was a weed when he started playing League, he has built up, as I am sure anyone who made any type of high grade would, even if they played Union they would still need to bulk up or be considered a liability. And it’s not as if Union has many small guys who are similar to any of the guys I listed playign at the top level.
The Bulldogs have another weedy guy comign through (Ben Barba), watch out for him, he is a bit of a pocket dynamite.
Springs said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
Campbell, Orford, Burrow, the majority of hookers, Perrett, Hodgson, Morris, Gidley etc All representative players who are small. I don’t many small wingers or centres in Union any more either. Weren’t Sailor and Tuqiri the Aussie wingers a few years back?
Churchill was only 65-70 kg, but back then props were only 85-90 kg, so the ratio of small to big players isstill the same.
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
Bay35Pablo – every one of the Wallabies is over 180cms aren’t they?
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
will genia 174cm , matt giteau 178cm, tyrone smith 178cm, all the Kangaroos players are above 178 cm
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
So there is Genia only. Everyone else is no shorter than a Kangaroo. Hardly proves that RU is the sole home of “a game for all shapes and sizes”. Genia is taller than Gregan. You can bet that if the Wallabies had Thurston or Cronk then Genia wouldn’t be there.
Springs said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
Tyrone Smith is a former League player. The Kangaroos have 5 players which are 178 cm, Farah, Cronk, jennings, Gidley and Slater. Wallabies have ONE player below 178cm.
Ken said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
George Rose playing for Manly isn’t exactly an Olympic sprinter. I think maybe too big a deal is being made of this. I think both codes accomodate more body shapes than any other football code (and most other sports too). At the top grades of both though, fast and strong guys tend to outnumber fat and slow guys. The biggest of the union props probably wouldn’t find a spot in a league team but as MasterBlaster pointed out, there’s not a lot of lilttle guys running around the top tiers of rugby anymore either.
BTW Campbell’s size isn’t that rare, off the top of my head similar sized guys would be Soward, Prince, Sandow. Slater and Stewart are a bit taller but considering they are training as full time sportsmen they’re still pretty skinny guys
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
except the wallabies heights go far beyond those of the kangaroos, and the body shapes are quite radical compared to league, height isnt everything to do with shape and size
Springs said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
The shortest player in the English League team this year was Eastmond at 168cm and their tallest was Crabtree at 198 cm and 121Kg. Now i would say that is a different body shape.
Realist said | January 1st 2010 @ 11:40pm | Report comment
What do skillful rugby union players and Santa Claus have in common?
They don’t exist!
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:10am | Report comment
thats why the RL stole all the RU players in the first days?
adrien2166 said | January 1st 2010 @ 10:21pm | Report comment
ahahahaha that’s really true! i love this comment! prop forward in rugby union are fat and unfit
rugbyfuture said | January 1st 2010 @ 10:31pm | Report comment
get over yourself mate, you probably couldnt play it at all
adrien2166 said | January 2nd 2010 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
rugbyfuture, yes i played union during 10years and played for french representative team under 16 then i switched to league at 16 but i think i was wrong because league is a hardest game than union, the skills are more specific and hard to realise,like the offload when you’ve got 3defenders on you, or tackle. The tackle is more difficult to do in league because there is only one defensive line and the forwards offload much better than in union.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
the skills are broader because they play a more lineal game, they are more specific in terms of an overall game tactic but Ruggers need to focus on particular skills for their position as well as the broader game.
theres no such thing as Forwards in RL, just heavy backs
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
adrien2166, the skills focus is slightly different too, because of the play the ball. A league runner has to worry much less about losing the ball, and not at all about hanging onto it once tackled. Union runners have to always be thinking about hanging on and recycling. This produces some differences in kind set, and means union’s approach can be more conservative due to the risk involved.
Springs said | January 2nd 2010 @ 3:36pm | Report comment
Forwards are just ‘heavy backs’ ay? Is that why I see so many prop forwards practicing catching bombs, or chasing grubbers, or diving in the corner, or intercepting, or kicking goals/bombs/chip kicks. A scrum doesn’t make a forward.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
yes springs, but pushing, contesting, ripping, clearing out and mauling does.
Springs said | January 2nd 2010 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
So does taking hit-ups, making 30-40 tackles, dummy-half work, cover defending, running overs/unders lines, complicated set/decoy plays, and lots of hardwork. League and Union forwards are different and have different jobs to do, but they are all forwards.
Realist said | January 1st 2010 @ 11:48pm | Report comment
I played prop forward in rugby union when I was 15. I was much smaller than the other props, but I was just as efficient as them in the scrum and at the breakdown. I also played as a break-away and lock (sorry, I won’t use that stupid term ‘number 8′).
Rugby union is an easy game to play. I found it much easier to clean out the opposition players at the ruck, knock all the opposition players over when I ran the ball (rugby union players tend to be poor defenders) and set up rolling mauls than playing as a second-rower in rugby league.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:11am | Report comment
well you’re obviously a good player, shouldn’t you be playing pro by now?, it was probably a bit hard to start a maul in RL since they dont have them anymore
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:38am | Report comment
Realist
You’re kidding right. All you have to do is remember to run straight as a forward in League and on occasion pass the ball. Funny thing ,however, I had the same experiences as you in League. Catch the ball, run at the line, watch as the defender’s either fall off or being trambled underneath my boots, score the try. Pretty easy day out actually. Fortunately I had Rugby to satisfy my confrontational requirements. At least there I had to work for my metres. I wish I had encountered you when you were 15. Would have been fun.
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:33am | Report comment
Working Class Rugger,
Doesn’t your lot (rugby union players/coaches) rely on ex-rugby league players to teach you how to tackle?
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
Realist. a number of coaches like Muggleon and Kiss were recruited some years ago because rugby’s leap into professionalism meant union went from having a limited coaching staff who handled everything to being able to have specialist coaches. As such, it was sensible to employ these blokes to bring their existing systems and approach to union rather than having someone invent them from scratch.
One of the reasons Australian union was so successful in the late 1990s was because it was IMHO able to adopt much from league, which other countries didn’t as much beacuse league wasn’t as big as here.
So thanks for the hand me downs, they served us well.
And I can’t see Muggo and Kissie coming back to league any time soon, they are having too much fun seeing the world and earning great coin!!!!
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 10:18pm | Report comment
“Realist. a number of coaches like Muggleon and Kiss were recruited some years ago because rugby’s leap into professionalism meant union went from having a limited coaching staff who handled everything to being able to have specialist coaches. As such, it was sensible to employ these blokes to bring their existing systems and approach to union rather than having someone invent them from scratch.” — Bay35Pablo
Maybe so, but this doesn’t explain why there are so many ex-rugby league players involved in the coaching ranks in 2010. A week or two ago I across a rugby union journalist’s article on the amount of ex-rugby league players who are involved in the coaching ranks.
“And I can’t see Muggo and Kissie coming back to league any time soon, they are having too much fun seeing the world and earning great coin!!!!” — Bay35Pablo
Your code is paying a lot of money for a couple of men who were relatively unknown in the rugby league community. If your code is willing to pay a fortune for mediocrity then us rugby league fans will just sit back and laugh.
Dan said | January 8th 2010 @ 9:17am | Report comment
This is a disturbing trend in Sydney’s private schools. It’s that kind of elitism that actually stifles the spread of Union in my opinion. I went to a public school in Randwick that decided to play Union and dumped League because that way it could pool its resources and send the team travelling to the UK, France, Japan etc. However, we were never taught to be “disdainful” of Rugby League… in fact we all supported a league team along side a union one.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 5:27am | Report comment
Oh dear, another clueless attack on rugby league by a soccer cheerleader…it’s starting to get monotonous. The number of factual errors in this article would go close to setting a Roar record. It is simply a rehash of a number of issues that have been debated in these forums ad nauseum.
mahony said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:57am | Report comment
It is OK Mick – you can just dribble out a string of stereotypes about sheilas, wogs, poofters and violence as many egg-ball fans do. These stereotypes are just as relevant to the debate about the value of the beautiful game and its future in Australia as the litany of drunken, women bashing, public defecating egg-ball players are……
On the topic – I am delighted to hear that the NRL ratings are so strong. I was only telling an AFL supporter (my boss) the other day that it was a mistake to write off the NRL and that its future is assured at the elite level (for what it is in global terms). IMO it will be the AFL that will come down from the dizzy heights of oligopoly as football grows in Australia over the next 20 years. Time will tell and the ‘code wars’ will rage regardless.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
Sheilas, wos, poofters???
What are you talking about?
I was defending my game against a nonsensical attack….where did I attack soccer?
mahony said | January 1st 2010 @ 9:49pm | Report comment
MIck, I was simply suggesting there were well-worn counter arguments to any of this articles offensive anti-NRL propaganda to be made if you were so inclined.
Your tone was clearly one of exasperation with the view of the author and many football fans (and fans of other sports) who agree with the tenor of this article which quite reasonably juxtaposed excellent NRL TV data with appalling PR disasters.
Football supporters (or clueless “soccer cheerleaders” as you snidely dismiss them) have seen it all before from better than you for over 130 years – the direct, the tacit and the paranoid. If you were not having a go at the football community then I retract – but your language suggests otherwise IMO. Have a shot at the code on its merits as you see them by all means – but give the supporters a break for loving their game.
BYW, how are junior rugby numbers faring in the booming upper-middle class estates of the northern suburbs of Canberra? And does St Edmund’s still create a league player of quality once in a while? Thought so…
Mick from Giralang said | January 2nd 2010 @ 6:57pm | Report comment
Mahony: Well may I sound exasperated. Rugby league supporters regularly have to weather ignorant and snide attacks on their game from cheerleaders from other codes who are envious at rugby league’s success and profile. This article is simply another off the production line
Despite your recommendation I do not intend to attack soccer as a game. The various codes should be allowed to survive or fall on their merits — on that basis I am more than confident of rugby league’s onoing and growing success.
But make no mistake — unwarranted and unbalanced attacks on rugby league will not go unchallenged. I sense a growing and well articulated backlash against the spin and propoganda regularly wheeled out against rugby league. This is no doubt a new and uncomfortable situation for the supporters of other codes — well, you’d better get used to it.
I know this will be equally unpleasant news for you — but rugby league, particularly at the junior level, is thriving in Canberra’s north.. Witness the growth and onfield success of the North Canberra Bears, a club with which I have some association. Sadly, its rugby counterpart is on life support.
Equally disappointing for you will be the news that rugby league at the elite level has no need for rugger players from the private schools. The various rugby league competitions in the district and surrounding bush have provided the nucleus of a Raiders squad that promises much over the coming seasons.
Crosscoder said | December 31st 2009 @ 5:50am | Report comment
I come from an Anglican private school background,and I echo Billos’ thoughts and comments. to a T.The attititude at times for rl players by some , was as stated, disdainful(and that was from the teaching side for starters).I suggest, I was a very ordinary ru player,(3rds).
I also not a comment made by rugby writer Greg Growden in the SMH a couple of years ago,when he stated,he lost count of the number of incidents in the code at school and club level,that were simple swept under the carpet.
He mentioned this after a father at a ru schoolboy match between Sydney Boys and another GPs school got involved in an altercation,and after a schollboys all in brawl.
The comment about the larger proportion of rl players misbehaving, when one has heard and read of late allegegations and incidents involving players from other codes,only proves the point.The majority of the public knows this sort of behaviour happens in all codes,in all walks of life.
The little darlings(many in their 18th or approaching 18th year) that traipse off to the Gold Coast for schoolies week(and commit any sort ofanti soocial deed),many from private schools,give a classic example of the problem in society.Probably the same parents that tut tut,when a sportsman goes off the rails.I have seen it first hand,the hypocrisy is overwhelming.
And whilst I respect rugbyfutures example as he stated it is in reality old fish and chip wrapping news ,not exactly 5 minutes ago.A lot of water has gone under the bridge since.
Are we to take away our kids from schools such as St Stans in Bathurst or Knox Grammar because of allegations by teachers over the years.Or prevent our children from becoming policemen due to graft and corruption by some.Or business men who rip off the public.Some people really need to pull the wool away fom their eyes.
For the benefit of the author APAWAY.
BTW apart from the increase in Tv viewing figures,crowds were up in the NRL this year,going against the general sporting grain,and I participation figure are on the increase,whilst awaiting the full official figures.
However i do have ones provided by the NRL not including school figures.
2009 Participation figures are set to break last years record levels:
Club registrations are up 6.8% to 162,095 ,the largest in the game’s history
Almost 4,000 new juniors aged 6 to 18 tregistered with clubs to create a new junior participation recored of 124,319
Senior numbers increased significantly,with an increase of almost of 10% representing the biggest 1 year lift in more than a decade.Masters rl continues to grow with national championships on teh GC and more than 10 throughout the country.
More than 2,500 girsl across Australia participated in the new Harvey Norman Girls tackle(repeat tackle) competitions for 14-16 year olds.”
As a converted rl zealot,I find these figures with all that had gone on this year offfield,not only encouraging but outstanding.
I dread to think what the figures will grow to ,when rl players do the right thing off the field.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
Crosscoder, can you give a link for that stats please?
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
I doubt that they will ever get that much larger, as the NRL gets more like NFL being faster and stronger. What’s needed is the NRL to get control of something like Oztag and use that to get more people involved in the game (both sexes), and use that to it’s advantage as a game that everyone can enjoy at a social level.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
you and billo must of gone to one of the GPS or Knox or one of the sports scholarship schools or equivalents from the other states, which i think create a hatred, at aloys we learned to love the game, even when we were losing, there certainly wasnt an emphasis put onto a disdain for Rugby League, indeed many of our teachers were leagueys, and we were better at soccer anyways. Methinks that the sports scholarship programs and high emphasis on winning at those other private schools are what are spurning the everyday man who won’t ever be in the schoolboys squad.
M1tch said | December 31st 2009 @ 6:11am | Report comment
yawn article of the year..
yeh players stuff up, but the NRL administrators actually punish players, they are not given free rides..
the ratings and even crowds show the game itself is in great shape..
Redb said | December 31st 2009 @ 6:17am | Report comment
The NRL did not out rate the AFL on TV according to even Roy Masters.
Ken said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Do we need this argument again? I think everything’s been said a million times before. What if we just start with the summary and get it over with : Captial cities numbers are won by AFL and this is the most important for the stations and advertisers, the NRL wins if you include regionals. All numbers are estimates and float around depending on their source and don’t take into account people watching at pubs…. whichever source you’re talking about the winner gets by on 1-2% – can we just call it a draw and say both are pretty popular?
Mushi said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:15am | Report comment
You’re flaw is that you are asking for both sides to show a level of maturity and logic Ken, when clearly my code is better than theirs
K.B. said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:11am | Report comment
Why can’t you accept the truth … just once… ?
~~~~~~
KB
Redb said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
If people keep beleiving it to be true then it has to be challenged until they accept that there is two sides to a story and not all is as they beleive/told.
Redb
John Ryan said | December 31st 2009 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Trolling again Rebd,difference is more people are interested in RL than RU and it has a high profile,so you take the good with the bad.
RU is a class based sport
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 6:21am | Report comment
Little bit of research by the author would have showed that League runs classes in being responsible on the drink, as well on the Dally M night no alcohol was available as compared to the Brownlow medal night.
It will take 10-15 years (a generation of League players) for the changes in how clubs and players view alcohol to get through , and even then League players will only be a representation of society as a whole, so we will still have our fair share of bad eggs.
Not sure why someone would write this article, and why this website would allow it.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 6:51am | Report comment
It’s the silly season…
sheek said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:29am | Report comment
There is more than one indicator to judge a sorting code’s health. While NRL is riding high in TV ratings, I think it’s behind AFL in attendance figures. And financially, league is perhaps the most fragile of the 4 footy codes.
Yes, it generates more money than union, but it’s debt ratio is also huge. Many clubs are close to the that line & are being propped up, year after year, by hand outs from NRL & News Ltd.
This is all to say union & league will merge in Australia. Maybe merge isn’t the right word, but they’ll come together in some fashion.
Neither code is the complete article by themselves. League has the players & the clubs, but union seems to have a better pathway to the big end of town & accessing financial sources.
But them together & they would have some mighty combined clout. Union will be the game they play. It is a matter of conjecture what concessions league would be able to secure.
But they would be able to protect their famous icons – the clubs. Or save most of them anyway.
I’m not deliberately stirring the pot. I like both codes, but I believe a re-union is inevitable.
I’m on hols down the south coast of NSW, so don’t expect any immediate responses from me!!!
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Your kidding if you think they will ever combine. The only chance is that they will come under the same umbrella (IRB) and be Rugby 13 and Rugby 15, with most countries playing League in the summer, and Union in the winter, helps all those clubs fund stadiums as well when they are used all year around.
sheek said | January 1st 2010 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
Dogs,
i guess time will be the master of whether I’m right in my views. I’ve learnt from expereince not to be dogmatic about anything.
My starting premise as always is that neither code is the complete article, & in Australia, both can bring different but complimentary bargaining chips to the table.
rugbyfuture said | January 1st 2010 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
that would be kinda cool if you had the two under the same umbrella with them for different seasons, quite awesome in fact
Brian said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:12am | Report comment
I certainly respect your opinion and all and this is coming from a distinctly rugby league distorted angle but the reason the codes will never merge in Australia is down to the on field product. Rugby League, as proven through its patronage, has got the on field product spot on. Whilst ever a game can be won by the best goalkicker, there is no reason why rugby league would want to merge.
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:11am | Report comment
Rugby union is the only code in Australia that is likely to die: the ASB’s stats show that the majority of Australians who play rugby union are persons who were born in other English speaking countries; Super Rugby is shunned by the commercial FTA networks because it doesn’t rate well; there’s no national club competition because there isn’t enough interest for one; the NYC outrates Super Rugby; the Socceroos’ growing profile is killing off the Wallabies’ appeal to investors and laypeople because unlike RU, soccer is a truly global sport.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:23am | Report comment
Link?
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:40am | Report comment
4156.0.55.001 – Perspectives on Sport, May 2009
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:25am | Report comment
and also one proving rugby league is the opposite
Siva Samoa said | January 7th 2010 @ 8:16am | Report comment
And rugby leagues players were born in Lebanese speaking countries . Is that what you are saying Realist ? Rugby league would likely to die in NZ before that happens to rugby union in Australia.
Dogs Of War said | January 7th 2010 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Union would never die, at worst, just return to an amateur only game. But even that is inconceivable, as League tends to build off Union, the reverse would be true in Australia, in that Union can steal League players (even at a junior level like U20’s) to stay competitive at the higher levels.
Siva Samoa said | January 7th 2010 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Australian rugby doesn’t need to still league players from any level to stay competitive at the highest level. The majority already playing now all agme from rugby clubs, schools and juniors. There is enough players coming from schools and clubs to make Australian rugby competitive but its the rugby structures in each states that fail them.
The ARU has got to have third tier competition or a national competition for under 19’s or 20’s to give this kids experience.
Foxy Loxy said | January 7th 2010 @ 9:19am | Report comment
“There is enough players coming from schools and clubs to make Australian rugby competitive” Oh that is GOLD! Competitive?? Please list here for us all Siva the 21st century trophies won by the Wallabies and Waratahs, REds, Force & Brumbies!!!
What’s “structures” got to do with it? If you’re any good you get into a Super 14 team and then the Wallabies. That’s THE structure! It works fine!
The problem is the lack of quality and number of players, not the pathway.
Siva Samoa said | January 7th 2010 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Do you want to see the trophies won by the same teams from 1900 to 1987 Foxy Loxy ? From school 1st xv or amateur club level to super 14 level is not an ideal structure is it ? they need to have a national club/provincial championship and a national under 20 as well. in brisbane kids coming back from the australian under 19 and under 20 rugby world cup aren’t allowed to play premiership club if they are under 18. that’s like coming back from the wallabies and then asked to play club level but not super 14.
Jay said | January 7th 2010 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
Its easy to justify RU’s structure in Australia looking at their success in that period. However, the game has changed and come a long way since professionalism. Unfortunatley, RU’s structures have not and you’re kidding yourself if the ARU would love to have another tier between club rugby and S15’s to fill some of that gap.
Jay said | January 7th 2010 @ 8:44am | Report comment
You’re forgetting about the private school system, who produce fantastic rugby players or corporate leaders who will support rugby.
football said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:34am | Report comment
The RL rattings result is up on last year, but you all seem to forget that it is still down on two seasons ago, somewhere in the order of 2%. The fall in AFL ratings is the real story here, with now both AFL & NRL on a downward trend. Last year the poor results were blamed on the olympics (fair enough), but the true question is will the overall downward trend continue.
The other question that needs to be answered is why is News Limited giveing the game away for nothing?
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:39am | Report comment
A lot comes down to what teams are playing well. Obviously when teams like Sharks, Panthers and Roosters are riding high on the table, their is less interest in the game as they are some of the least supported teams in the comp.
As for your other question, why is News Ltd giving away the game. It’s because they are not wanted. They have been selling the game short for ages, and they have no place in running a code like League.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
You’ve gotta laugh when soccer people start talking about TV ratings…
Mushi said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:20am | Report comment
Yes because corporations like to just abandon a profitable enterprise “because they aren’t wanted”. The naivety of some league fans is mind numbing
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:51am | Report comment
It’s not like any money the NRL makes go to shareholders and back to News Ltd. It is invested back into the sport via clubs and junior programs etc. News Ltd understand that they are not seen as the good guys while being involved in Rugby League due to the conflict of interest, and thus where they understand they are not wanted part comes in, if they make an exit that sets the sport up in a good way that they can’t be blamed for any future failures, it leaves their public profile intact. Don’t forget that Lachlan Murdoch loves his Rugby League, and I am sure he doesn’t want to be responsible for it’s downfall.
So really it’s the naivety of some Union fans who keep dreaming that the NRL is going to fall over, and all the supporters will rush to embrace Rugby Union and make that the most popular code are the ones who live in la la land.
How about waiting till the independent commission is up and running, and see what direction the game takes from that point onwards. Really it comes down to the next TV deal for both AFL and the NRL. While Union is already set, and will continue to be ignored on Pay TV, and that TV money they get has to be spread a little more thinly to make sure that the Force and the new Victorian team become viable entities.
Mushi said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
Dogs suggesting that News Corp, bound by fiduciary duty to act in the interests of shareholders, is stepping away because we’ve called it nasty names and not for commercial reasons is insane.
Also how would News be responsible for it’s downfall, you love spouting on about how successful the NRL is reading your comments I struggle to see game that has been driven to the verge of destruction by a corporation. Add to that the beloved commission is looking as independent as conjoined twin.
It baffles me that we hold up the commission like some delivered messiah yet have no clue how it is going to operate other than “independently” (but elected, and hence influenced, by the clubs and leagues?)
AndyRoo said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Isn’t one of the conditions of News leaving first right of refusal on some of the TV product?
That’s all news were interested in before Super League and probably all they are now.
They don’t need to own the game and be responsible for the weekly upkeep to make money from it, just have the Pay TV rights.
Being half owners doesn’t allow them to sell the rights for nix or prevent optus from getting the RL content so why be the owners at all?
That’s more than likely the reason. They can take Gallop and co off the payroll (or use them elsewhere) and still make X dollars from RL.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
Way to twist my words Mushi.
I said “It’s not like any money the NRL makes go to shareholders and back to News Ltd. It is invested back into the sport via clubs and junior programs etc.”
That’s why they are exiting the game. Their is no money to be made, other than what they get via selling the Pay TV rights to itself at a lower value.
As for the Independent Commission. I would like to think it will be created to make the game better, and given it’s being modelled on what the NFL and AFL use, I can’t see it not being better than what we CURRENTLY have.
As for this “Also how would News be responsible for it’s downfall, you love spouting on about how successful the NRL is reading your comments I struggle to see game that has been driven to the verge of destruction by a corporation. .”
How do you explain what happen to the game from 1995 to present. It took a long time for the game to recover from Super League with many teams becoming casualties. Yet you dismiss it as if it didn’t affect the game.
As for how successful the NRL has been, well the crowds are up, TV ratings are up, participation is up, I figure that makes it a success despite what has happened to the game off the field via players etc.
football said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:47am | Report comment
Considering News Limited history, they dont give things away, & they have been selling the game to themselves. I agree the entire structure is pathetic however it is in favor of Newslimited & I am not naive enough to believe they will throw away $8 Mil a year out of the goodness of their hearts.
My oppinion is they are sick of underwriting the code.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:58am | Report comment
Yeah, underwriting the code? Is that what you call it? I call it underselling the rights to yourself. And that $8mil you are talking about, they are only using that for the Storm, and they won’t leave the game unless that continues.
You do realise that the only reason they are even involved in the game was due to the Super League war which they started. Rugby League owes News Ltd nothing for what they put the game through, the only credit News Ltd can take is that at least they didn’t run away after bringing the code to it’s knees, it’s now in a good position to take the next step, which requires a new administration in the form of the Independent Commission.
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:48am | Report comment
What an article to finish off the year.
“But the adverse publicity is almost certainly hitting the game at junior level.” based on what apaway? Your opinion by the look of it.
Let’s get all the Roar’s soccer, AFL and RU zealots together in the one thread, and mutually share our contempt for rugby league.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Don’t expect him to reply, I had a look at the other article he wrote and he never replied once. That one was having a go at AFL. I suspect his next article will be having a go at Rugby Union.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:37am | Report comment
c’est la vie
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Stop showing off! Us league people don’t understand Spanish.
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:45am | Report comment
hahaha
apaway said | January 1st 2010 @ 12:42am | Report comment
Hey Dogs Of War, I thought I’d shock you and reply, though it’s not something I usually do with an article I wrote. Sorry if you thought I was “having a go” at league, it wasn’t my intention, I actually love the game and have watched it since I was 7 years old, and played it with limited success at school. I was hoping to provide some reasoning to the high number of reported cases of player behaviour due to alcohol abuse. I’m also very much aware that the NRL provides alcohol management programs to players. And I was at the Dally M’s and alcohol was freely available to players. To their credit, almost all of them drank nothing stronger than Coca Cola.
The stats on junior participation rates came from information collected from Sydney LGAs and the Australian Sports Commission.
Master Blaster said | January 1st 2010 @ 6:27am | Report comment
So we’ll just take your good word on the stats will we?
Glad to see you’ve embraced the concept of the internet apaway. Not keen on the interaction side of it? Write an ambiguosly worded article that you now say “it wasn’t my intention” to have a go at league via.
Mister Football said | January 1st 2010 @ 7:23am | Report comment
Pull the other one.
Dogs Of War said | January 1st 2010 @ 8:14am | Report comment
I can’t find the article where it was said that alcohol was banned at the Dally M’s now (nrl.com articles don’t go back before the grand final, google search brings up way too much material).
Either way, given you said you went to the Dally M awards night, and thus must have a lot of interest in the NRL to go to such an event, and then must understand what changes have been happening in the NRL at club and higher levels via the education programs that all NRL players and even moreso Toyota Cup players must go to. I am surprised that you would go to an effort to try and take all the good work the NRL is doing and write this uneducated article about the subject.
Let’s go through your “recommendations”
apaway said” It doesn’t mean players shouldn’t take responsibility for their actions, not at all. But the scenario described happens frequently, and it would only take three or four standard drinks in this situation for a player to be intoxicated and unable to make rational choices for themselves. Before long, the group is binge drinking. Consider that many young players at NRL clubs are living far from home, without parental supervision, and may have done so since before they were of legal drinking age.
Perhaps it would be healthier and safer if clubs allowed players to have a couple of drinks a week, in line with medical guidelines (and all clubs have doctors on staff who could inform players what the guidelines are). It wouldn’t affect fitness levels and would eliminate the pattern of binge drinking that seems to lead to most of the trouble in the game.”
The pattern of binge drinking is no different to any other person in society. Young people tend to work during the week, and on the weekend hit the drink, surprise surprise the NRL players are no different when they get an opportunity. Education on the effects of binge drinking is the right course of action, these are grown men, and their is only so much the NRL can do. You say let them drink during the week, but the displine required to not going overboard (1-2 drinks suddenly turns into 6-7 drinks) can be hard to moderate. Better to just have a blanket ban.
apaway said “As well, maybe clubs should be ensuring that any team bonding session involving alcohol include officials or senior players who are able to monitor players and give them a tap on the shoulder when they’ve had enough. Bar and hospitality staff are now required to complete a course in Responsible Service of Alcohol; perhaps it wouldn’t be a stretch if players did the course too. Self and peer-monitoring might work better than getting into an argument with a bouncer, fueled by VB courage, notions of invincibility, and not a thought for the headlines the next day.”
I am sure via the player education that most club official attend these as well. They incorporate a lot of what happens in a RSA course, with more focus on the effects of alcohol. What is changing in clubs is the culture of the club allowing players to get on the drink to excess. Clubs realise the effects it has on their image, though some clubs will take a little longer to address issues in their clubs administration who may still just be an old boys club who did worse when they played the game (and thus turn a blind eye to what a player may be getting up to). That’s what must change, clubs need to take responsibility for players at every opportunity.
Still unsure how you can say the NRL has had more issues than all the other major sports combined. Maybe it just seems that way cause you only read the daily terrorgraph.
apaway said | January 1st 2010 @ 8:54pm | Report comment
Believe it or not Dogs Of War, I think we’re on the same page. I agree with your comments on education on binge drinking and I do have a vested interest in responsible alcohol management. But I would dispute that NRL players are “no different” when they have a big night. Like it or not, they’re celebrity figures, and invariably any infraction will make it into the media, now that everyone carries a potential recording device with them. It’s not fair, but it’s reality.
And I don’t read the Telegraph.
football said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:12am | Report comment
Good to see that RL fans know nothing about their own code. The NRL pays Newslimited $8Mil a year so they can recover their superleague losses, its in the agreement.
Mick from Giralang, Should the soccer fans point out that Sokah holds the highest rating shows in Australian Pay TV history both set this year.
This has nothing to do with Sokah but you should be questioning whats going on rather than blindly accepting what you get fed by the Terrorgraph.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Good to see a Soccer fans who knows nothing about what he is talkign about. That $8mil is then invested back into the game via the Melbourne Storm to help develop the game in Victoria.
As for the Super League losses, how many times does it have to be said that without News Ltd, there would have been no Super League, and no losses to recoup!
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:18am | Report comment
Should you point out how A-league rates on pay TV compared to NRL and AFL?
M1tch said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:24am | Report comment
i doubt he will
M1tch said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:23am | Report comment
yeh socceroos are our national team, but compare a-league to nrl games is a fairer assessment..
and a-league matches are around the 60k mark
Punter said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:53am | Report comment
Exactly correct, the Socceroos can only be compared to the Kangaroos (our national team).
football said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Exactly so they are still owed $8 Mil a year as I stated. News limited use it to cover storms losses underwriting the team. So you still cant answer the question why is Newslimited pulling out as you claim that RL is being sold short in the TV deal so why would Newslimited pull out of something which benefits them for nothing.
Mick from Giralang
Now you want to limit it to one level & not the whole code interesting how it changes “oh no what about the A league”. It rates extremely well for a comp which is five years old & actually outstripped all initial expectations. It is the RL ratings which are on an overall downward trend (although pay TV is actually increasing), not the A league, they are establishing their market & holding it.
M1tch said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:33am | Report comment
where do you gets your ‘facts’ about ratings from?
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:40am | Report comment
Why is News Ltd pulling out. Yeah it because Rugby League is about to fall over, AFL and A-League are just too strong and News Ltd wants to devote it’s time and money to sports with a future. Is that what you want to believe? I think it is.
In reality it’s because they have had more than enough time to “recoup” losses which where only incurred when they started a war the code didn’t ask for and is still paying a price for. They also realise that are not in the business of running sports, rather they run Newspapers etc. And it’s not as if News Ltd are not exiting without making conditions that ensure the code prospers like demanding the Independent Commission, and also ensuring the future of the Melbourne Storm financially.
Maybe the question should be why was News Ltd involved in the sport at all?
Kurt said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Interesting. Please post the links that support your contentions about TV ratings, with primary data included – i.e. – the actual figures themselves. Thanks.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:00am | Report comment
Football: You’re the one who brought up TV ratings — you can’t pick and choose.
The A-league ratings are simply appalling.
jimbo said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:21am | Report comment
The FFA are about to sign a new deal with Fox which is about five times or more larger than the current one.
The A-League games and highlights packages are shown on TV networks right around the world and aren’t doing too badly at all.
The 2008-09 A-League attendance average of 12,996 puts it as the 18th most popular football league in the world, even though 200 of our best footballers don’t play in the A-League, they play overseas.
Australian football isn’t just the A-League – the Socceroos are the highest rating football team on Pay TV and FTA and football is the biggest sport by far for players and participation rates across all ages, men and women, indoor and outdoor.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
So A-League rates higher in other countries, is that what you are saying?
As for participation Rugby League is always at a disadvantage as many cannot play due to the physical nature of the sport, so instead play Oztag and Touch Football, which combined have over 400K playing the game. Add those numbers to the sport and you get a much better idea of how popular a sport actually is.
Punter said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:48am | Report comment
I think if you include Oztag & touch Football, which I think the Rugby League associations should do, the numbers still fall far less than the participation in football.
But I wouldn’t go as far as Jimbo as saying football is the biggest sport in Australia.
Springs said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:40am | Report comment
I would say League+touch > soccer. The touch comps usually have ten or so divisions with 5-10 teams. So there can be upwards of 1000+ players in just one comp. In soccer and League there are usually 8-10 teams, 5 grades with variable team playing numbers. So in a soccer around 400-500 players in a senior comp. (I’m speaking from a country NSW viewpoint of course)
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:53am | Report comment
Just saying that the participation numbers aren’t that far apart. People like to use figures which makes their code look like the best. Why it’s always all the other codes putting the boot into League has me stuffed, other than that’s the code they are most scared of if the admin ever gets it’s act together?
rugbyfuture said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:59am | Report comment
i think everyone puts the boot into league because its become a competitor for everyone, good grassroots attacks at soccer and a little at afl, a good national/semi national comp goes at it to AFL and the fact its a rugby code and attracts the same type of athlete as backs in rugby union goes at rugby union
jimbo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:24am | Report comment
Punter,
there is no doubt that football is the biggest participation sport of any football code in Australia even if you add touch football to Rugby League.
This is the last ABS survey in 2007
http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/A36EC2C4EAD3937BCA257281001ADA51/$File/41770_2005-06.pdf
and the football figures in 2007 were nearly double what they were in the last survey in 2000, so the 2010 figures will show an even bigger gap as the sport continues to grow here.
Springs said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
Jimbo I cannot take that document as indicative of the Australian sportinglandscape when it stated thatLeague had only 90,000 participants and soccer over 400,000.
The ARL Annual Report 2008 stated that ‘Total participation in competitve Rugby League (school and junior and senior club players) will be over 423, 584 players by the end ofthe year’. Now I know that that number is not a true measure of League participation. Over 250,000 of those players were school players. But there is still over 170,000 registered junior and senior players playing League regularly.
While Touch Football Australia has stated that there are over 250,000 registered players with 500,000 school children playing the sport. Now the total participation rates would addup to over 1.25 million players. But regular players still add up to over 420,000. Which adds to even more than the ABS reported about soccer players.
jimbo said | December 31st 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
If you’re counting touch football and oztag as Rugby League,
then we’ll throw in all the games played with a round football – beach soccer, table soccer, Monkey in the Middle, Ice Monster, Cops and Robbers, Pirate, Ball Monster, KickOut, Give and Go, EggHunt, Sharks and Fishes, Robbing the Nest, Camptown Races, KickaBooty and crushed Solo cans!
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 11:45am | Report comment
I have no problem if you count those who play a form of soccer, though table soccer may be going a bit far. As long as it’s an organised sport, their will be numbers available somewhere.
The point was that participations numbers aren’t that cut and dried.
AndyRoo said | December 31st 2009 @ 11:55am | Report comment
With the new Crawford report I think the writings on the wall that sooner or later their is going to be a lot of political mileage in amount of registered players you have.
Both League and Football should be getting all their different branches under one umbrella for registration purposes.
The AFL have been smart enough to make sure everyone that looks at a Sherrin is signed up as a registered player at least once, (3 times if you play for your school, a club and do a 6 week summer OZ kick session).
I wouldn’t go that far with the duplicate registrations but both League and Football should be setting up data bases to count their number of unique players and making sure the schools, church comps and table soccer (perhaps start with Futsal) clubs all provide the data they need and are rewarded for it.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Just don’t mention the A-league ratings…
Punter said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Show me the figures.
Redb said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
Australian football is not the A League or the Socceroos it is the AFL.
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
In Melbourne maybe, but not in NSW or Queensland or the rest of the world.
Redb said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
What as of 5 years ago
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
Sorry, that’s gone. The war is over.
Punter said | December 31st 2009 @ 3:28pm | Report comment
Australian Football has never been AFL in Sydney & it has nothing to do with what happended 5 years ago. You in a RL thread not a football thread.
James D said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Hmm the more controversy the more people tune in. As soon as the NRL cleans up its act people will begin to see how boring the code is without police investigations positive drug tests and sexual assaults to keep the code interesting.
M1tch said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:32am | Report comment
lol, love it
ignorance is bliss ay…
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Yeah, that’s why people watch the game, because of what happens off the field. Maybe Friday’s nights should include a game, followed by highlights of the previous weekends hi-jinx that the NRL Stars got up to.
Obviously it’s a big reason why people aren’t watching Union, and now Union has decided to try and get into the press with Quade Cooper to get some of that publicity because that will make people watch the game, though being available on pay TV only works against them.
It’s must also a big reason why Soccer is so big in Europe, given what the Soccer Superstars get up to, makes the NRL boys look like choir boys.
James D said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Yep – it certainly helps. The Union boys have been pretty much squeky clean and interest is low. Interest is much higher when Matt Dunning is bashing in Taxi Windows and Wendell Sailor is doing Cocaine or they are luring league players across. And all friday night games do have that mate – they are called news updates. Look all the off the field stuff does is get you exposure – the NRL has been in the paper non stop this year for drunk players acting stupid – public urination – sexual assault – drunk driving etc etc all this exposure is a type of advertising. And thats what causes people to tune in on their tv’s. Its not only league either – Controversy created some of soccer’s biggest stars – Beckham for example. And AFL’s biggest Stars – Ben Cousins – Barry Hall etc. As soon as the Union players start acting stupid you will see higher ratings for the code. Its true – the 2008 super 14 had very good australian ratings cause Matt Henjak got sacked after he punched Haig Saire in the face.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:52am | Report comment
The Toyota Cup outrated the 2008 Super 14, and most people don’t even know who the Toyota Cup players are.
The interest off the field, is due to the interest in the game overall. Union players do act stupid, it’s just they don’t have the profile (unless you play for the Wallabies), so people just treat them like they do any other member of the public when they get up to mischief off the field. NRL and AFL players tend to not be afforded the same consideration, due to their public profiles.
Union is very good at covering up what their players get up to, though the NRL will be in a good position in 10 years via the player education programs they put in, and how they design leadership groups at the clubs, that any perceived culture will be changed for the better, while Union will still be trying to sweep things under the carpet (though I doubt anyone will care by then).
James D said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Hmmm – “Union is very good at covering up what their players get up to” – Well thats a throw away BS line if i have ever read one. The rugby boys got in the paper and got fined for having a food fight? That sounds like they dont get away with much really. Also the Toyota Cup is branded the same as an NRL game ie Dragons V Eels – so dragons and eels fans tune in. However the blockbuster between the Sharks and the Lions at 2am might not rate all that well (wonder why). Even the Tahs will struggle to draw interest in a game against The Cheetahs or Lions but as soon as the Brumbies or Reds play the crowds are up to 30,000 and the ratings are much improved. Also keep in mind that off the field incidents for the NRL are also discussed on talk back radio – sport shows like the Back Page and PTI on ESPN never talk about the squeky clean players they always talk about the ones doing the wrong thing – so they have naturally had a focus on the NRL.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Which Rugby boys where involved in the food fight. Show me a link where it names the players.
Why was Lote’s contract torn up? Once again show me a link where it explains what happened.
Stop kidding yourself that Union is that much cleaner, at the end of the day the players are all representatives of society, and you can see what a lot of money and too much free time can do to players. Helps in Union that most of the time you are playing in another country where the general public wouldn’t have a clue who the players are, and thus they can get away with a lot more (Though not always ie Joe Roff in South Africa)
Jim Wilson said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:34am | Report comment
When have the Reds & Brumbies ever had crowds of 30,000?
jimbo said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:15am | Report comment
They show it at a time slot when nothing else is on – bored sports junkies watch.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:52am | Report comment
League critics can’t have it both ways…either off field incidents are killing the sport, or they’re its saviour.
Make up your mind
Redb said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
“And AFL’s biggest Stars – Ben Cousins – Barry Hall etc”
Rubbish they brought all the bad publicity particularly for the game in Sydney.
true fans of either the AFL or NRL dont start watching more games in the hope of a drunken or drugged up display on the field. They would rather the players behave themselves, if anything its a turn off and you focus on the good players who do the right thing, the ones who deserve more credit like El Masri in league or Ablett jnr in the AFL.
Redb
Davo said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:41am | Report comment
Speaking as a parent, I wouldn’t let my kids get involved in Rugby League. Generally speaking, the sport attracts the lower end of the spectrum in terms of intellect and behaviour. The NRL players who get involved in off-field incidents don’t help the image of the game. Having said that, I still enjoy watching the game.
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Speaking as a member of the rugby league community, I wouldn’t want a parent with such boorish views to get involved in my game.
M1tch said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:53am | Report comment
So you dont let your kids go outside either?
IF you think Rugby League is bad, the locals streets would be hell for you.
Corey said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Thanks Davo for your medieval “noble” views, once again the status of an individual is more important than the character. I will tell you now that I play Rugby League and am currently studying Theology (almost finished and am doing fairly well). The so-called intellect you talk about is a fairly unfair comment, due to the fact that A LOT of rich rugby union families pay for their childs education and degree (ala Bond University). They may have some great intellect, but looking at the wallabies this year compared to the kangaroos playing I would say the intellect of the wallabies is far poorer than the kangaroos- at least the kangaroos know how to win consistently.
Punter said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment
I don’t think the fact that you are winning makes you more intellectual….
Corey said | January 3rd 2010 @ 12:49am | Report comment
I would say there is some correlation Punter, If I was in a competitive market intellect helps. And intellect frequently helps the outcome. If I was playing league and was smart I would know when to pass or hold the ball, same for union- yet the kangaroos know when to do this, yet the wobblies don’t.
Springs said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. I was Academic Achiever (As in highest in my school) six years straight and guess what I have played since I was 7?
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Tiddlywinks?
Springs said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Wrong.
Punter said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:55am | Report comment
Mathlethics
Springs said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Wrong again.
AndyRoo said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:50am | Report comment
Interesting and bold strategy Davo, keeping your kids cocooned until their say 21.
Hope it works out for you….. and them.
Working Class Rugger said | December 31st 2009 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
Davo
“Generally speaking, the sport attracts the lower end of the spectrum in terms of intellect and behaviour “.
Not so. Some of the guys I went to school with and now have either made the NRL ( Ryan Hoffman) or making their way weren’t exactly dunces. There is however, a cultural aspect that is really negative in RL. It’s nothing new, just under alot more scrutiny these days.
football said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:54am | Report comment
Actually Newslimited is pulling out early so the time factor is not correct, but maybe they are just cutting their losses & getting out.
Newslimited is in the business of makeing money & if the comments about the code being undersold were correct then they should be reaping the benfits, so perhaps the code is not worth as much as you wish it was.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:03am | Report comment
When do some of the A-League club owners do the same? You can’t say that any A-League club owner is in it for the money, rather it’s all about the ego of controlling a club.
Corey said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:05am | Report comment
Obviously your not looking at the ratings, also, this year League was the only football code to grow in crowd attendances this year. Also the fact that Rugby League has the most room to grow helps (e.g. Perth, Darwin, Sunny Coast, Central Coast, Central QLD, PNG, etc.) makes it appetising to investors. There are a lot of things that need to be fixed, but at the same time, there are a lot of things that are looking good, especially leading up to the World Cup in 2013. That should spread the game, especially across Europe, and Britain.
Siva Samoa said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
Like the 2000 Rugby League World Cup failure.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
And that stuff happens, it’s how you recover that counts, and with a decent World Cup last year, I think the game recovered quite well. It now has something to build on (and a bit of spare cash).
Now run away back to your Union threads. You only come to the League threads to troll, and it gets boring quite fast.
Siva Samoa said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
Spare cash that most made up rugby league playing nations wont see.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
ZZZzzzzzzzz……
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:39am | Report comment
Isn’t the 2011 Rugby World Cup tipped to lose $300 million? Far more than the 2000 RLWC lost.
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:45am | Report comment
Realist
The $300 million you’re referring to is the expected loss the NZ Govt will incur in funding it will provide to host the event. This includes the upgrade and/or the building of new and existing stadia in order to do so. The tournament in itself will actually generate funds positively. Well above the monumental $5 million the RLWC managed to generate. And here’s a little bit of trivia for you. The 2015 RWC is expected to generate in excess of $1 billion AUD for the IRB. Good luck with your Mickey Mouse WC. Leave the real thing to the big boys.
jimbo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:05am | Report comment
Was that the Daily Telegraph Rugby League journalist who became an expert Rugby Union journalist overnight who tipped a big loss for the 2011 IRB World Cup?
The 2007 WC in France was the most successfull ever and made Millions of Euros profit.
The WC in Australia in 2003 was also very profitable and made millions for the ARU..
Don’t believe everything you read in the Telegraph . . . unless you are a Rugby League supporter and want to get more of that glowing feeling . . .
Siva Samoa said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
Where did you get that ridicilous figues of $300 millions from Realist ? The IRB would still get a huge profits and the NZRU ould also get the profits from over half of the tickets sold.
The NZ government is under writing the $30 million because the tournamnet will generates hundreds of millions of dollars to the NZ economy.
Bay35Pablo said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:14pm | Report comment
Are we talking about actual loss here, or do we have confusion about what underwriting or a guarantee means?
I think you will find those figures are based on if the guarantee were ever called on in full, which would be EXTREMELY unlikely to happen (you would just about need the tournament to be cancelled).
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:48am | Report comment
Only to be completely eclipsed by the 2015 RWC. Good luck though, you’re going to need it.
Corey said | January 3rd 2010 @ 1:03am | Report comment
may be we need the same luck you guys need to develop your own back line players…huh? …what’s that?…..you can’t because League is a bigger sport in Australia. Oh no! The rich boys are going to cry and talk about their money to make them feel better. Martin Luther said “The Lord commonly gives riches to foolish people, to whom he gives nothing else.” So go on about your money, does it make your game bigger in Australia- and don’t get me wrong, I like watching international Union, but I would rather League any day.
Siva Samoa said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:15pm | Report comment
I like watching state of origin league but I’ll take any rugby union games any day.
AndyRoo said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Perhaps their smart enough to realize the money is in controlling the TV rights and you don’t need to pay employees to organize fixture lists and referees to control that.
When optus had the monopoly they had too get involved in the nitty gritty but now they can move back to their core business as a media company.
football said | December 31st 2009 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Kurt
You keep asking for links to everything. Do your own research or counter the claim, I am not your research department.
M1tch said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:00am | Report comment
you spew stats but dont back them up..hmmm
Kurt said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:17am | Report comment
I ask for links because I am keen to increase my knowledge of such matters. You made specific claims about TV ratings that I was not aware of and as such I requested further information. I hardly think this constitutes an unreasonable request.
Corey said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Kurt is asking a reasonable question football, you need to reference your claims to prove it. You cannot just put out statistics without proof.
football said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:41am | Report comment
Kurt for your information doing research involves collecting data over a period of time & a link wont show you that data. Rating information is availaible at around 11AM sat for FTA & Mon afternoon for Pay TV. I have collected this data for the past three years into a spreadsheet & unlike yourself I dont need to depend on a journalists oppinion.
If you want to discuss ratings you should know the results or dont enter the conversation.
Mick from
The article mentions ratings.
By the way Kurt have you found out the Korean Govt assesment of WC on the econemy after the event or are you still waiting for an economists oppinion.
Kurt said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Three years TV ratings in a spreadsheet – that’s fantastic! Not to mention a little obsessive. Feel free to share the summary trended data with us – just enough to prove your point that soccer ratings are on the up and everyone else is on the way down.
I did look at actual Korean GDP figures as reported in the Economist and CIA Factbook and found no significant blip in 2002 or the years immediately preceding it. So no joy for you there I’m afraid, meaning that you’ve still failed that particular challenge. But please do get back to me as soon as you find something to support your contention.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Good, then if you have the data handy in a spreadsheet, uploading it to a website shouldn’t be too hard.
Otherwise I will have to presume the data on the Astra and Oztam websites is correct and that shows League increasing, and State of Origin receiving it’s highest ratings ever this year.
Brian said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
5 out of 4 soccer, sorry, football fans don’t understand fractions.
Springs said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:44am | Report comment
What absolute crap. AFL players have been involved in just as many alcohol-related incidents this year, and about three times as many in the last month or two. Half of the NRL’s ‘incidents’ are just media-created crap like the QLD red bull/stillnox fiasco. And the ratio of incidents:Players would be just as great to Rugby as it is to League.
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:44am | Report comment
According to the media poor Gallop is responsible 24/7 for 365 days and nights of the year, every year, for 400 NRL players, 400 NYC players and every one else remotely connected with rugby league, either right now, or the oldest living retired player.
Even the wife of the Rabbitohs owner was deemed newsworthy of a NRL scandal: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/wife-of-rabbitohs-boss-in-court/story-e6frexnr-1225793510561
When any of these people are in the paper, the media roll up to the NRL offices demanding to know what Gallop is going to do, will the game’s sponsors pull out, please think of the children etc etc
Meanwhile the AFL washes its hands if any of its players misbehaves, with the media happy to accept it is the player at fault, not the code, not the club or the AFL.
As for soccer, RU and cricket, each has about 30 contracted players, of which most Australians couldn’t name half a dozen of the Wallabies or Socceroos. RU Super 14 players and soccer’s A-League players don’t even register as newsworthy.
Just do the maths people.
Siva Samoa said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
Now you are talking out of your ass again. The socceroo’s, Wallabies and the Australian Cricket team are also well known in Australia. Most Australia wouldn’t even know who most of the Kangaroo’s forwards are.
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Australia’s news media last week figured that Dave Shillington was a bigger name to sell than Wade Cooper or Kurtley Beale were earlier in December.
Siva Samoa said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
Here in Queensland in Australia in the last few weeks the news media figured that Quade Cooper was a bigger name to sell than Dave Shillington .
I wonder who Western Australia and South Australia media thought was worth its gold ? After all they are part of Australia you talked about.
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
Not according to Sky News, Fox Sport News, The Australian, Channel Ten national news etc. All gave the Shillington story a big profile, but were nowhere to be seen with Carlton booze arrests.
Siva Samoa said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
Quade Cooper made the headline news in Queensland on all TV channels and its in every major papers in Australia. I don’t go looking or measure the amounts for articles about trouble footballer but you obviouly in denial here. Quade Cooper is a Wallaby and a member of the QLD Reds squad so its obvious that he’s big news in Queensland.
I had to google the name Dave Shillington as I have no idea who he is. A Canberra NRL player getting caught for DRINK and DRIVE is bigger news in Australia than a Wallaby stealer and Carlton booze arrest . Your having us on aren’t you ?
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:49am | Report comment
Siva Samoa,
It wouldn’t suprirse me if the majority of Australians knew more about the Kangaroos’ medical staff than they do about the Wallabies’ squad: over 50% of Australians live in Queensland and NSW and; rugby league is the dominant sport in Queensland and NSW.
Your boring, unskilled sport, sport, rugby union, is close to being a minority sport in the two Australian states where it is played the most!
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:58am | Report comment
Realist
Leave your comfort zone of NSW and QLD and ask the other 50% about the Kangaroo’s and Wallabies. Bet you most of them will think you’re referring to North Melbourne in terms of the Kangaroo’s and alot more will actually have some clue of at least who the hell the Wallabies are. You seem to neglect that Australia doesn’t begin and end with NSW and QLD, that there are actually 11 million other people who exist under that banner and that beyond them there a whole world where Rugbyt has League out numbered.
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:01am | Report comment
Oh and by the the way. The Queensland Rugby Union record a positive growth rate this season for the first time in 3 years. In all a touch over 90,000 people participated in some form of Rugby in the state. Not bad. Considering you believe it is a skilless, talentless sport or may be you’re confusing it with League.
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 2:03am | Report comment
Total Rugby participation in Queensland passes 90,000
Tuesday, 15 December 2009
The success of Queensland Rugby’s “come and try” campaigns in schools across the state has boosted total player participation numbers in Queensland past 90,000 in 2009.
Club rugby and formal school competitions also experienced a lift in players numbers in 2009, although nothing like the 160 per cent boost in the “non-regular” competition category for schools which covers carnival-style, one or two day events. Non-regular schools participants jumped from 3,689 in 2008 to 9,615 in 2009.
…….
Regular competition numbers rose from 43,077 in 2008 to 44,793, however some of the 10 per cent rise in senior player numbers (8,857 to 9,793) was attributed to improved senior player registration systems in 2009.
http://www.qru.com.au/library/news/2009/091215_participation_numbers_up,70519.html
Only 9,793 senior players involved in organised competition? No wonder the QRU is citing children who’ve attanded a day-long camp!
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:54am | Report comment
Over 80% of rugby union participants in Australia live and play the game in Queensland and NSW. The game is only the 4th most popular football code in Queensland and NSW Oh and by the way Rugger boy, rugby league kills rugby union in the Northern Territory.
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Realist
“Oh and by the way Rugger boy, rugby league kills rugby union in the Northern Territory.”
Really, that’s super because Rugby kills League in both WA and SA. No contest really. So you can have the NT population circa 160,000. Whilst we’ll take WA Australia fastest growing State with more than 2.4 million people and expected to increase to 3.5 in the next 10-15 years. SA is just a bonus. Oh and how League going in Tasmania. If you would like I’ll look up the results of the previous seasons Rugby Championship.
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 10:23am | Report comment
Ummm… do the math mate. That suggests that the majority of participants in the ‘youth’ category. Here’s a helping hand.
44,793 – 9,793 = 35,000. That not too bad considering it the first season in the last three its experienced growth.
Elbusto said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
Working Class Rugger FYI a new League Comp was introduced in Hobart this year with 4 teams participating. There were 9 Union Senior Teams in Hobart this year. 3 folded when the reserves folded so it was more like 6. There were three Rugby Teams in the North. We are starting a League Comp in the North next year and look at starting with 4 teams.
Juniors in Tassie this year had a big reduction in numbers because the ARU pulled its funding. League has a chance to consolidate over the next 12 months. I hope this answers your question about ‘how is League going in Tasmania’. Union is going backward by the way. And I say this as a just retired President of a Tasmanian Rugby Club.
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
Rugby league is growing quite well in Western Australia. The WA Reds attracted large crowds to their Jim Beam Cup matches at Members Equity Stadium.
Siva Samoa said | January 5th 2010 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Hasn’t the Western Reds pull out of the Jim Beam cup due to finanacial reasons. There were more players and clubs in Perth back in the 90’s than it is now. Its struggling at all level with many clubs unable to field reserve teams and colts.
Dogs Of War said | January 5th 2010 @ 10:51am | Report comment
Partly financial, partly because they want to create juniors, and thus are entering teams in lower levels such as SG Ball. This would then mean that those players would be at a good age if a Western Reds team was admitted again which really comes down to how the next TV contract works out. If a team is admitted again, a lot of the lower levels such as a local comp will increase again, as their is a pathway to the top level available, which really doesn’t exist currently.
Redb said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
This maybe a view from Sydney, but AFL players who stuff up are front page news in melb papers for days.
Get off your high horse.
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
Really? Where are the post Carlton booze opinion pieces in the Vic and national media attacking the culture of the AFL and demanding immediate punitive action from Demetriou?
Redb said | December 31st 2009 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
it is amazingly hypocritical to on one hand say the AFL’s image deserves to be buried in the mud and then on the other bemoan the treatment of the NRL bad boys behavior as unfair.
Both Melbourne papers have carried front and back pages stories including page 3 of the recent Blues and Lovett problems and yes you’ll be happy to know the papers have said the AFL’s image has “taken a battering”.
But becuase you’ve got your head so far up your Sydney centric mindset you miss those little details
Redb
John Ryan said | January 1st 2010 @ 11:08pm | Report comment
Rebd Talking about hypocrites that’s rich,Turdy is just his usual self
M1tch said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
But the game comes out fine, where RL always is damaged.
The way the media treats the games is very very different
AndyRoo said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
To be fair the HAL, Super 15 and NRL aren’t on FTA TV (before midnight at least) so the whole “it’s destroying the game” angle isn’t used. It’s more about the individual and the club.
Master Blaster said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
Really? Four Corners and then the Game 3 Origin biff were all enough for the Melbourne opinionators to fire up against the culture of rugby league. By the end of 2009, the AFL at all levels of the game had just as much on and off field rubbish occur.
AndyRoo said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
I was talking about in Melbourne as opposed to Sydney. They don’t worry about the future of their game and their is no BS about Brendan Favola destroying AFL, their is no competition and AFL isn’t going anywhere. They just focus on Carlton and the Individual.
In Sydney however a Willie Mason story is painted as destroying the game and driving the juniors to Rugby, Soccer or AFL.
A Fevola story will start with “in another blow to Carltons Image”
wheras a Mason story would go “Rugby leagues image took another battering last night”
Siva Samoa said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
Rugby league players intense scrutiny by the media in Australia is very much their own doing. It has nothing to do with league been the main code in NSW and QLD.
When the Willie Mason and the Bulldogs story broke out it a couple of years ago was the beginnning of a medial trial of NRL players. And from then on any NRL players who treated women as the bulldogs players did would get the full brunt of the media. And what follow wasn’t what the NRL wanted but worst with sexual and physical attacks on women one after the other even by their pin up boys.
The Four Corners story was the beginning of a second chapter that seem to get worse and let to an an admission that there is a gangbang culture in league and the scrutiny of NRL players are now even bigger.
They don’t just make the headlines in the sport pages for doing the wrong thing but now they are on the front page news. Live with it as they said you made your bed now sleep in it.
AndyRoo said | December 31st 2009 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
Before that I remember Fitler falling asleep in a cab and Gower doing something were way bigger stories than they should have been Siva so I don’t buy the Coffs Harbor reason.
Redb said | December 31st 2009 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
AndyRoo,
What do you mean there is no competition?
The sporting landscape of Sydney features 9 NRL teams to 1 AFL, Super 14 and A League team. Melbourne all but the super 14 team at the moment.
Redb
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
Siva, probably the first time I agree with part of what you have said, the players treatment of women is really the only culture that League needs to change. It’s hard I suppose when women throw themselves at young blokes, I reckon I would have struggled at that age if women were doing the same, to contain myself. But it’s then the clubs role to make sure education programs and leadership groups exist to help direct the players on what is acceptable, not just at the club, but in society.It’s one of the best things to happen to the Bulldogs, cleanout on and off the field that has resulted in a more family orientated club. One that all supporters can be proud of.
Though the 2004 Bulldogs example is a good example of a trial by media. How many players were charged? How many of you believe the players were guilt?. Enough said.
AndyRoo said | December 31st 2009 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
RedB all the other football codes in Melbourne are small fry in comparison to AFL. Their are more journalists covering AFL than their are players. All of those teams into Melbourne are at most 11 years old and none are on FTA and their smaller than the smallest AFL club.
The above is all mainly due to the AFL doing so well in Melbourne and having forsight/luck in expanding to all mainland capital cities.
During the Super League war it become part of the lexicon to say “I am going to support Rugby/Swans now” and that has stuck.
Melbourne doesn’t seem to have that level of insecurity because if X say they are no longer going to support Carlton no one thinks they are going to Support MV or the Storm.
There are no code wars in Melbourne because they don’t consider the other codes big enough to talk about
Elbusto said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
Fevola jounalist – Fevola Brisbane -all quiet on the western front.
M1tch said | December 31st 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment
http://www.astra.org.au – pay tv
ratings throughout the year on this site
puts a wide gap between league/afl v union/soccer
Jim Wilson said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Thanks for that Mitch.
http://www.astra.org.au/content/pdf/MediaReleases/ASTRA-Ratings-for-Week-090823.pdf
I had a look at the Archives on that site – but it only goes to 31 August 2009. Any reason?
M1tch said | December 31st 2009 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
try this one http://www.astra.org.au/news.asp
although doesnt carry through december..shame it would have been interesting to see 20/20 cricket v aleague ratings
football said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:12am | Report comment
Actually Astra posts networks releases & oztam doesnt break it down to daily.
You need to go to Media Spy & get a daily breakdown & then record them individually, if you want to include regionals you then need to go to another site take the capital cities away from the national figure.
football said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Mitch
I am not trying to convince you mate I am simply stateing the results, if you question them do it yourself.
Kurt did you look at the government report & the GDP contribution of the WC. So does that mean that the Korean Govt is makeing up stories about the WC after the event, yeh Kurt I failed didnt I. Think about it.
M1tch said | December 31st 2009 @ 10:48am | Report comment
well, back up your statements, your not correct so you cant..i put the site so people can see.
Crosscoder said | December 31st 2009 @ 11:01am | Report comment
Yeah funny about News Ltd.The code they wanted in order to ensure their new pay TV (Fox) would be a success was …….not soccer,not AFL,certainly not union but that bad old rugby league.It happened at a meeting involving the late Porkie Morgan(also a former union player),who was asked by Murdoch at a function,which sport would be the ideal one to set up {Pay TV.
Rugby league has been the keynote factor in the early and continuous take up of Pay Tv subs,even allowing for the growth of AFL subs and the A League.
News Ltd is pulling out simply to get out of the constant barrage they have ben getting from critics,that they (media) have a financial foot in both camps(plus NRL),and therefore the conflict of interest aspect is constantly thrown up.They will continue to get their payments from the NRL after News Ltd pulls out,as per the original peace deal.News Ltd also notes the new commission is the best way for the NRL to go,to be a truly professioinal organisation.
Another point is there are companies in Australia not prepared to invest(ia sponsorship) whilst a media organisation
involved in part ownership.
As far as the tV ratings is concerned for Mr Football” .Up til Nov 09 ,according to Fox sports ratings rugby league occupies 60 of the top 100 programs on Subscription TV.15 games had an average audience in excess of 300,000 this year(compared to 8 for the entire 2008 season).
And to the pompous among us who treat rugby league players and the game with disdain this year,and ignore the goings on in their own codes,which sometimes never make the press.
127 players across the NRL and toyota cup have commenced or completed a uni degree.
115 players are completing r have completed a trade apprenticeship out of 850 players with 20% of Toyota cup doing an apprenticeship.
84% of NRL players have post secondary school qualifications,which is double the amount since 2004.
Other interesting titbits
the proportion of the general public who say they are interested in the NRL increased in both NZ(from 42% to 47%) and Vic(13% to 16%).
Awareness of the Toyota cup has increased from 58% to 71%,and the supporters who watcj it from 27% to 36%.
Yes the crowds are down slightly on 2005,but they still increased on 2008,whereas other codesdid not.
2005 avge 16,466
2006 15,577
2007 15,751
2008 15,595
2009 15,952.
Davo.I am glad I am not judgemental like you (by the actions of a minority in a sport).
Else,my kids would never play netball(some of the worst examples of swearing by girls 15 plus,AFL thanks to Carey/Ablett/Carlton club hush money and carpet job etc,the ru quokkas/Sth African taxis and the latest 2 allegations involving Wallabies, and soccer with one player allegedly involved with an under age girl,another in adelaideinvolving a punchup,the antics of some of the EPL players.
Sorry I find the old ,your code has more atrocoties than mine is tinged with irony.Reality ALL codes have had incidents,and one incident is one too many.Cut the pomposity.Even Demetriou is a realist and admitted it is so.
Dogs Of War said | December 31st 2009 @ 11:09am | Report comment
Crowds are up though overall, as their were only 15 teams in 2005.
Crosscoder said | December 31st 2009 @ 11:13am | Report comment
My stats came from the NRL website about 6-8 weeks back.
the headingswent like this:
Summary
Crowds
Ratings ch9
ratings ch9 win and NBN
ratings Fox sports
digital and Media
Memberships
welfare and education
research
licensingtoyota cup
participation
the bleeding ARL is as usual late off the mark with their final supporting figures.
Bay35Pablo said | December 31st 2009 @ 11:48am | Report comment
Crosscoder, I can’t find it on the NRL web site. Do you have the link address handy?
JimC said | December 31st 2009 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
One good indicator of rugby league’s health is the number of articles attacking the code using specious arguments like those adopted by apaway.
Truly amazing. Soccer is doing fine in Australia. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Yet the sport’s adherents appear impatient and sometimes downright paranoid.
Tifosi said | December 31st 2009 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
Your right Jim C,
To leave the year on,
Socceroos’ 2006 FIFA World Cup campaign voted FOX sports story of the decade
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26531763-5014539,00.html
Anyway Happy New Year to everyone
Mick from Giralang said | December 31st 2009 @ 3:37pm | Report comment
Siva: FYI – Tthe Coffs Harbour sexual assault allegations have been comprehensively debunked by one of the lead investigators in the case.
http://www.abc.net.au/stateline/nsw/content/2006/s1737619.htm
The investigation found, not only was there not enough evidence to lay charges, but there was sufficient evidence to conclude that a sexual assault had not taken place.
Recent articles by Jacqueline Magnay about the woman in the affair also put the lie to the allegations.
Willie Mason was NEVER a suspect in the matter.
However I don’t blame you or any casual observer for not knowing this. The subsequent rebuttal of the allegations received possibly 100th of the media space that the original story did. And all those young Bulldogs players who were paraded in front of the cameras at the Coffs Harbour police station forever bear the slur of “rapist”. A few of them have spoken about publicly about the ordeal they’ve put through and their ongoing vilification.
kick,clap,kick said | December 31st 2009 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
Why does the game seem beset by these problems? Other codes have had their issues without doubt, but the sheer volume of League incidents outweighs Union, AFL and football combined.
I only got that far ,What a load of tripe…Every code has player problems….The AFL alone has had as many this yr as RL …
Tell me why insecure fans of other sports continually deathride RL …when the facts prove the opposite of what insular viewpoint they are putting forward.
Mister Football said | January 1st 2010 @ 7:24am | Report comment
League fans should be ignoring this article – it’s only here to stir up trouble – it’s all a load of tripe.
Master Blaster said | January 1st 2010 @ 6:24am | Report comment
League’s problem is that it has such a high popularity and profile. Same with soccer in England.
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/bartons-bullet-footballers-must-grow-up-20091231-lkzu.html
Barton’s bullet: footballers must grow upJanuary 1, 2010 .
Trouble-prone Newcastle United midfielder Joey Barton has launched an astonishingly candid attack on his fellow Premier League professionals, declaring that: ”Most footballers are knobs.” In an interview on BBC Radio 4’s Today program, Barton said: ”I meet a lot of them and they are so detached from real life it’s untrue. But there was a stage when I was like that. Driving around in flash cars and changing them like you change your socks, wearing stupid diamond watches and spending money like it’s going out of fashion in the middle of a recession when some people are struggling to put food on the table for the kids – it’s not the way to do it.” Barton was being interviewed by his mentor, former Arsenal captain Tony Adams, who founded the Sporting Chance Clinic that Barton attends after a number of unsavoury off-field incidents. ”I was earning £20,000 a week and yet I didn’t even know how to behave, I was just a child,” Barton said. ”You grow up in an environment where, as long as you’re a good player, you’re told that you’re the best all the time. But whether you’re the best footballer in the world or the best golfer or the best cricketer, you’re a human being. You might be good at that [sport] but you might be crap at life.”
Crosscoder said | January 1st 2010 @ 8:46am | Report comment
Bay35Pablo
I am not silly enough to make a pronouncement about stats ,unless I had a source.
Seriously mate it isn’t hard to find the stats info from the NRL.com site:the stats are from an official document
I will follow through :-
Go to NRL.com
Go to news and views tab
Then you will see boxes 1-10 and more.
click on box 11-Official release 2/9/09 State of the game at 13.52.00
Then click on to be downloaded:Official State of the Game 2009 document
I had printed out 13 pages of the doc a few weeks back.
if you still have no luckI will devote the best part of the long weekend to pribnt the contents out if need be.
Bay35Pablo said | January 1st 2010 @ 3:59pm | Report comment
Crosscoder, seriously mate you said 6-8 weeks ago, so I went back that far in that very section. I didn’t go back to 2/9/09.
I just looked and the furthest back they go is 29/9/09, so I guess they don’t keep it longer than that.
However, I found it with a search in thew nrl site:
http://www.nrl.com/newsviews/latestnews/newsarticle/tabid/10874/newsid/56534/official-release-state-of-the-game-2009/default.aspx
I wasn’t questioning that you had the stats, I just wanted to read them for myself as I find that stuff interesting.
Thanks
Bay35Pablo said | January 1st 2010 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
Crosscoder, I didn’t look that far back as you said 6-8 weeks ago.
Here it is:
http://www.nrl.com/newsviews/latestnews/newsarticle/tabid/10874/newsid/56534/official-release-state-of-the-game-2009/default.aspx
I didn’t question you had the stats, I just wanted to read the full thing myself!!
Thanks
Crosscoder said | January 1st 2010 @ 9:14am | Report comment
Rugbyfuture
A wild guess ,re some within certain private schools have the disdain for rl, due to scholarships and the need for a strong sporting presence.
Way off the mark.The Assoc school I attended was hardly in the top end of sporting brilliance ,when compared to the likes of St Alos and Waverly.Why was this attitude by some prevalent at one time in a non private union playing GPS school :Sydney high?.
The classic examples of former students of a couple of Assoc schools and their disdain of rl,is no better exemplified than the likes of the union journos/tragics:M Carlton: Barker and P.FitzSimons from Knox.
I hardly think this attitude towards rl ,was given to them at birth.I would suggest schooling .It certainly wasn’t instilled into me before high school.Prior to that I was oblivious to the attitudes toward other sports.
Possibly since ru became overtly pro,and now in its 15 year attitudes may well have changed for the better.I can only pass on what I experienced and what I read and see.My closed view of the world changed ,when I actually started following rl .
Anycase I stll ask,why in the 21st century any school sees the need to discriminate against rl,by not including it in the sporting curriculum.Wouldn’t have anything to do with the old ru blazer brigade sitting on councils?Tradition blah blah blah.Tradition died when the game became pro.Tradition means “a long established custom”.Professionalism is not a long established custom.
rugbyfuture said | January 1st 2010 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
sydney high became a part of the GPS culture for a very long time and this has dissapated because of different cultures and emphasis on academioc curriculim over all rounded curriculum. theres not that many schools lower on the sporting heirarchy these days to aloys and waverly, possibly cranbrook, or pius? but one could say that the same disdain for union is brought in the traditional league run catholic schools and the fact that carlton and fitzsimmons went to barker and knox further exemplifies my point, those are the two schools in the CAS competition that, against the rules, do give out sports scholarships, with a high emphasis on rugby. these provides for two people coming out of the system, those who love the sport with a passion to the furthest extent, or those who hate it because of the bitter division of the society at the school it caused.
Tradition is being thrown out the windows at many of these schools, and those who can can cling onto what remains, one could say this is very similar to Rugby Union, if they were to include rugby league it would create a hurtful barrier amongst the other schools who refuse, at schools such as aloys, they cannot afford to include much more in terms of extra curricula, as they already force everyone to play a sport for each season, and AFL as an extra football code is actually in much higher demand.
As another object of environmental creation, one must also realise that these boys are all brought up on the north shore and northern beaches, which by its nature as a high socio economic area, traditionally focuses on RU.
i would challenge you to name a traditionally Rugby League school which would do the same thing for RU, other than st gregs, which is just a poor mans Joeys
Working Class Rugger said | January 1st 2010 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
rugbyfuture
Hey, I went to St Greg’s. Looking down your nose a bit there mate.
Anyway, following on from your quote ” but one could say that the same disdain for union is brought in the traditional league run catholic schools “.
This is very true. When Rugby was first being tentatively introduced ( primarily as a weekend sport for border’s) there was quite a scathing hate campaign run by certain ‘unknown’ persons (students and actually a couple of teacher’s). Even before this if you were of the Rugby persuasion you were openly ridiculed for your lack of skill or talent. The only satisfying thing was in the years I attended and actually played League I’d easily beat them into teams and then beat the other’s physically at training.
rugbyfuture said | January 1st 2010 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
i never said st gregs was bad, just that it was the poorer mans joeys, which is understandibly so since joeys is bloody expensive and in hunters hill. and St Gregs is great at Rugby anyways, which is cool
but thanks for underlying my point
Working Class Rugger said | January 1st 2010 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
rugbyfuture
I didn’t take offence to it. The tag of a poor mans Joey’s has been around for a while now. No one really cares.
Siva Samoa said | January 1st 2010 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Private schools don’t go out of their way to include american football, gaelic football, baseball, equestian, rugby league and many other sports in to their sporting curriculum. The sport bodies of those sports had to make inroads or work out a time, table that fit into whats already there.
AFL took a while to get its act into the GPS school system in Queensland and its still not one of the annual programme but it is played by GPS schools. League was played and some schools have teams in the Queensland school comps. Some GPS schools find it hard to field teams it clashes with other football codes are most kids are not from working class families.
This is the current GPS school sport system
Fifteen GPS interschool sports and activities are included in the annual program :
Basketball, Chess, Cricket, Cross Country, Debating, Gymnastics, Music, Rowing, Rugby Union, Sailing, Soccer, Swimming, Tennis, Track & Field, and Volleyball.
Crosscoder said | January 1st 2010 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Rugbyfuture
I stated that after 15 years attitudes may well have changed for the better,and that of course would include Sydney High.
There you go ,they have no problem including AFL.Emphasising the discrimination point.Ever heard of rl 7s or 9s.That is a lame excuse.I hardly think Barker and Knox were using sporting scholarships in Carlton/Fitzy’s days,and certainly not the case at my school..You can focus on a particular sport,i have no problem with that,it is the blatant exclusion of one,when others are able to jump the queue.
ATT Trinity/Barker/Cranbrook were hardly setting the sporting world on fire.It seemed to be Waverly 1st 2nd and 3rd.
All the boys are brought up on the nthn beaches and nth shore.I have one word wrong.There are many kids at the school I attended,who were children of strugglers(both parents)kids from the bush and of course kids from a higher level socio economic background.I myself came from a battling background,but thanks to parents and grandparents was able to attend.
From memory St Augustines near Brookie,is one example.And i believe a couple in the Penrith/Parra area.
Although i will say this,St Stans Bathurst finally involved rl in the stay Alive cup,due to the influence of a teacher.Showing it can be done,and they can fit it into a curriculum.
rugbyfuture said | January 1st 2010 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
fair enough, i’m still of the belief that something big in the whole two codes thing will happen in the next 10 years or so, stani’s probs had a similar situation to totafu polota naus school, were they started rugby union at Granville south.
i think though that sydney high probably will have a problem with extra curricula in the future on a whole which is not good
I actually come from an irish catholic workers background and was lucky enough for my parents to work hard enough to be able to send me to a norht shore school, a Rugby League background to the extent that my great uncle played 1st grade for the magpies in the day, it turns out that i am probably one of the few from my old school though, that dislikes league to this extent
proffesionalism was something which had to happen, to sustain the game, and stop Shamateurism, its just part of the modern world, one of the traditions which had to change, but we’ll see what happens from now on
Crosscoder said | January 1st 2010 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
Bay35Pablo
Re the stats
Go to NRL.com
Go to tab news and views
Go to no 11 tab which covers many stories but a story” Official release “State of the Game” 2/9/09 13.52.00
Then go to part which shows to download Offical state of the Game document and click on that.
I printed out 13 odd A4 pages of the report.
It is all there in brilliant black/white and green.
Crosscoder said | January 1st 2010 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
rugbyfuture
10 years ?who knows? How will the new rl commission change things?After what happened worldwide in the last 10 years good and bad,it’s anyone’s guess.
Agree wholeheartedly on professionalism had to happen.
My beef with ru has been not so much on the game itself(hell i played it for 5 years)and will continue to stir the pot,but the attiitudes of some within the private schools,the attitudes of journos such as the Carltons and Fitzsimons who rather than occasionally bag rl ,almost make it a habit eg predicting the game’s demise.Throw in past comments by JON when he had a go at rl eg the 2000WC and predicted that ru would overtake rl when the 2003 WC was about to begin.
Then the interference by some in the ru fraternity in France in WW2 against rl ,and Craven(SARU pres) ensuring the killing off rl as a pro sport in sth africa in the 60s.
These attitudes and deeds still stir my blood,especially when I believe in fairness,that is what any sport should be about.
rugbyfuture said | January 1st 2010 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
the only way RU can beat this is by trying to attract those in the West, which they are having trouble doing, its much like two brothers though, so personal, its dangerous, and i think we need to focus on australia, because the elitist journalism in australia doesnt resonate to places like south africa or new zealand, and the interference in RL’s development doesnt really resonate in australia, in fact the ARU or NSWRU probably helped it along by being so stubborn about the players not returning.
the two either need to join back together or split far enough apart to attract for different purposes and merits, although i don’t think RL should americanise itself the way its doing right now with the slow introduction of new laws taken from gridiron, no one likes the septics taking over.
Barking Glider said | January 1st 2010 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
RL began on the Gridiron path and away from rugby when it ended unlimited tackles in the 1960s, then got rid of contested scrums and play the ball. So its Americanisation has been going on for 40 years, not in the past few seasons. Of course we see common rules and inovations in NRL and NFL. Why do you think Jack Gibson went to the USA in the 1970s.
Springs said | January 1st 2010 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
League has never got rid of contested scrums. It’s just the professional coaching attitude.
Mick from Giralang said | January 2nd 2010 @ 7:03pm | Report comment
Yoou’re right. Some clubs, particularly Canterbury, have a tactic of winning the ball against the feed in critical situations. they’re quite successful at it and I think you’ll see more of it in the coming seasons
Siva Samoa said | January 1st 2010 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
Lets get off the Vichy and the Craven excuses bandwagon WC. But if you think you get upset when rugby journos has a go at league. Think about the rugby fans who has to listern and read about rugby league journos and former league stars and nrl club ceos bagging rugby union .
Rob said | January 1st 2010 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
Ive been having this conversation with a League mate of mine for years now…he still doesnt really get it. League is going through a level of professionalism that AFL went through 30yrs ago and Football (in europe) went through 50/60yrs ago. When I was a kid grand final winners were still brickies and garbos….Now NRL players are pampered and overpaid and they just dont have the sort of culture around them to guide them through a new set of responsiblities. Must be odd for a young buck to get the sack these days after years of having listen to stories from the old boys bragging about the same sort of behaviour.
In professional terms the NRL is still a troubled teenager, It will eventually grow out of it…the other sports did.
Barking Glider said | January 1st 2010 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
What hogwash. VFL players weren’t fulltimers before Sydney rugby league players. The VFL deliberately capped maximum wages for players until the 1980s. League players were fulltime in England for decades before VFL. In Sydney the Denis Tutty case in the early 1970s saw a wages spiral.
As for “growing out of it” this list suggests the AFL are a long way from that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_involving_VFL/AFL_players#2009
Jackson Trengrove of Port Adelaide was fined for damaging a car windscreen after a night of drinking.
Aaron Edwards of North Melbourne was caught driving over the speed limit by police and found to have alcohol in his system. He was immediately suspended by the club for the 2009 NAB Cup and the first four matches of the 2009 AFL premiership season.
Albert Proud of Brisbane was charged with assault after he threw a glass at a female patron at a Gold Coast nightclub. In response, the Lions withdrew him from the Indigenous All-Stars representative side.[168]
Wayne Carey pleaded guilty to assaulting Victorian police and received a $2,000 fine.[169]
Ryan Cook of Collingwood is charged over an alleged assault of a man, causing facial injuries requiring surgery.[170]
Setanta Ó hAilpín was suspended for four matches after punching and kicking teammate Cameron Cloke at an intra-club match at Visy Park.[171]
Colin Sylvia of Melbourne was fined $5,000 by his club for turning up to training in an unfit condition.[172]
The North Melbourne club took responsibility for the posting of a lewd video, Boris the Rooster, on the internet. Ringleaders Adam Simpson and Daniel Pratt were both fined $20,000, with the remaining 38 players on the North Melbourne roster being fined $10,000 each.[172]
Nathan Bock of Adelaide Football Club was charged with assaulting his girlfriend.[173]
St Kilda’s Stephen Baker was assaulted in a Colac hotel [174].
Police investigate a report that someone shot at Collingwood forward Travis Cloke’s house. Reports said a single bullet shattered an upstairs window of the house in which Cloke lives with his parents.[175]
Ben Cousins was fined $2,500 for giving an unmanned changeroom camera the finger at Subiaco Oval before the Fremantle v Richmond match.[176]
Former Geelong player and media identity Sam Newman was charged with criminal damage, illegal parking and offensive behaviour over a road rage incident in Middle Park [177].
A drunk female Brisbane Lions fan threw beer over the Western Bulldogs’ Brad Johnson as he was handing out Bulldogs caps behind the goals after the final siren of the Brisbane-Western Bulldogs match in Round 20.[178]
Lance Franklin was punched in the face during a brawl in a pub in Perth. No serious injury was caused but Franklin said the attack was unprovoked.[179]
Carlton player Brendan Fevola became intoxicated and publicly misbehaved at the Brownlow Medal awards. Fevola was fined $10,000 by the AFL, and his appointment with a local television station suspended. [180]
Essendon footballer Nathan Lovett-Murray charged with possession of drugs and driving while unlicensed as a result of a raid on his Essendon home, a police search found a single tablet of ecstasy. [181] The drug charge was later dropped. [182]
Essendon footballer Michael Hurley is arrested for assaulting a taxi driver after being asked to pay his fare.[183]
St Kilda player Andrew Lovett was arrested in early November for public drunkenness[185]
Several Carlton players were involved in incidents following a cruise on the Yarra River – Rookie Levi Casboult was barely conscious when his family picked him up, [186] Eddie Betts was arrested in Queen Street and fined for drunkenness,[187] and Ryan Houlihan and Andrew Walker were fined $5000 for a confrontation they had with staff at Crown Casino.[188]
St Kilda player Andrew Lovett is under police investigation for an alleged sexual assault.
Mister Football said | January 1st 2010 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
“A drunk female Brisbane Lions fan threw beer over the Western Bulldogs’ Brad Johnson as he was handing out Bulldogs caps behind the goals after the final siren of the Brisbane-Western Bulldogs match in Round 20.”
That was naughty of Brad!!
Redb said | January 1st 2010 @ 9:26pm | Report comment
2009 NRL incidents, nothing to boast about Barking…
Canberra Raiders star Todd Carney went on a rampage in Goulburn, damaging property, jumping on a car bonnet and damaging the entrance to a Fone Zone store. He received a 12 month suspended jail sentence, was ordered to undertake alcohol counselling, and was banned from the local Government area for 12 months.[106]
Anthony Watmough was accused by a Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles sponsor of punching him and harassing his daughter in a derogatory manner at a season launch party.[107]
Brett Stewart was charged with sexually assaulting a 17-year-old girl in the stairwell of an apartment block after a club function. A magistrate issued an apprehended violence order (AVO) against Stewart.[108]
Cronulla Sharks Greg Bird was convicted of recklessly wounding his girlfriend,[110] and was later sentenced to 16 months jail with a minimum of eight months.[111]
Jake Friend was charged with drink driving after being caught by police in Sydney’s Eastern Suburbs.[113]
Trevor Thurling of the Canberra Raiders was charged with drink driving after being involved in a motor vehicle accident in Sydney’s Eastern Suburbs on April 9.[114]
Willie Mason was fined $2,000 by Sydney Roosters after being photographed urinating in a public place.[115]
Cronulla Sharks player Reni Maitua returned a positive drug sample for clenbuterol.[116]
Cronulla Sharks captain Paul Gallen was fined $10,000 for using a racial slur against Tongan St George Illawarra forward
Mickey Paea.[117] Gallen subsequently apologised and resigned from the club captaincy.[118]
Melbourne Storm players Brett Finch and Cooper Cronk were each fined $5,000 for urinating in public.[119]
Brisbane Broncos player Joel Clinton was fined $50,000 for breaking the club’s code of conduct and inviting a woman to his hotel room in Sydney.[120]
Sydney Roosters’ Jake Friend and Sandor Earl under investigation for allegedly assaulting a woman at a Sydney nightclub.[123]
Cronulla Sharks player Brett Seymour is fired by his club for another alcohol-related incident, his second such sacking following his dismissal by the Brisbane Broncos in 2006.[127]
Sydney Roosters coach Brad Fittler was reported in the Townsville Bulletin for drunkenly trying to gain access to the wrong hotel room while wearing only shorts. The incident occurred at the Holiday Inn in Townsville at 3am. Fittler consequently fined himself AUD $10,000 and apologised for his behaviour at a televised press conference.[128]
Sydney Roosters player Nate Myles was suspended for six weeks and dropped from the State of Origin team after defecating in the corridor of a luxury resort hotel whilst drunk. The club was also fined $50,000 for repeated offences.[129]
Cronulla Sharks player Greg Bird appeared in court charged with five counts of assault after allegedly attacking a woman in a Cronulla night club in January 2008.[130]
Melbourne Storm player Greg Inglis was arrested for assaulting his girlfriend.[131]
In August 2009 six Australian Celtic Crusaders players were ordered to leave the United Kingdom after the UK Border Agency identified breaches to their visa conditions. (not NRL)
Sydney Roosters’ Braith Anasta was king hit without retaliation in a Sydney hotel.[133]
Sydney Roosters player Setaimata Sa was charged with assault, resisting arrest, criminal damage and failure to leave a licenced premises, after a drunken episode in a Sydney hotel.[134]
South Sydney Rabbitohs player David Fa’alogo and coach Jason Taylor were both fired after an altercation at an end-of-season function.[135]
Wests Tigers player Daine Laurie was charged with assaulting his girlfriend.[136]
Sydney Roosters player Stanley Waqa was charged over a knife-wielding incident in which a young woman was wounded in Sydney’s east.[137]
Gold Coast Titans player Travis Drought was banned for two years after pleading no contest to a positive test for the anabolic agent nandrolone.[139]
New Zealand Warriors player Rusty Bristow was banned for four months after pleading guilty to possession and use of an illegal drug.[139]
Brisbane Broncos player Tonie Carrol was detained by police on Sunday 28th November following an alleged altercation with a woman, believed to be his partner. [140]
Cronulla Sharks’ Paul Gallen was issued with a criminal infringement notice for urinating in public near the head of a drunken friend. [141]
Sydney Roosters’ Jake Friend was arrested and charged by police following an altercation with a taxi driver.[142]
Newcastle Knights rugby league star Danny Wicks was charged by police in relation to drug supply offences.[143]
Canberra Raiders’ rugby league star Dave Shillington has been arrested for drink driving after testing more than twice the legal limit
Springs said | January 1st 2010 @ 9:53pm | Report comment
We all know about those incidents. I’m quite sure he was responding to the claim that the ‘NRL has more incidents than the AFL/soccer/union combined’
M1tch said | January 1st 2010 @ 10:22pm | Report comment
cheers for the history lesson
you forgot to add
high tv ratings for bris,syd
high crowds
high origin crowds
high origin ratings
sell out grand final
also..so thats something like 37 incidents
love to see how many players play NRL in 2009 to get some sort of percentage..even the 37 over the 400 base its 9%
hardly the entire code of players as some like to say
Redb said | January 1st 2010 @ 10:40pm | Report comment
I think I hear crickets
M1tch said | January 1st 2010 @ 10:43pm | Report comment
the 20/20 game finished ages ago, we is talking footy code wars
BN said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
So you Agree Redb, AFL players are just as bad as NRL palyers.
Master Blaster said | January 2nd 2010 @ 6:07am | Report comment
You should actually read Redb what people write, and not go off on some AFL driven agenda.
I was responding to Rob and his high and mighty AFL loving ridiculous assertions that “League is going through a level of professionalism that AFL went through 30yrs ago” and that “In professional terms the NRL is still a troubled teenager, It will eventually grow out of it…the other sports did.”
I never claimed that NRL was incident free, nor that it had less incidents than the AFL. Rob was implying that the AFL was a clean skin. I demonstrated that he was talking rubissh, and now, so have been you.
Elbusto said | January 2nd 2010 @ 8:57am | Report comment
I think what we have proven here is that a small number of both AFL and NRL players have been naughty this year. If you would like to check whats happening in other countries footy players are being naughty there as well. But it gets smaller headlines as the media has better things to do then report a bloke for pissing on a wall at 1 o’clock in the morning.
Bay35Pablo said | January 1st 2010 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
Crosscoder, I didn’t look that far back, as you said 6-8 weeks ago.
Wasn’t questioning you had the stats, I just wanted to read them myself!!
Thanks
Bay35Pablo said | January 1st 2010 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
Oh, and for others, it is at http://www.nrl.com/newsviews/latestnews/newsarticle/tabid/10874/newsid/56534/official-release-state-of-the-game-2009/default.aspx
Midfielder said | January 1st 2010 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
To much to read but just wanted to say well done to the Rl for getting thr top ratings…
That some of their players behaviour badly does not seem to affect the ratings…That private schools RU boys see some kind of joy in some pain RL might have is strange…
An insight into private schools and their influence .. a mate another accountant has as a client a well known Sydnet test cricket player over 60…. he tells me his client says the best thing cricket did was to rid itself of private school influence in the 60’s …
rugbyfuture said | January 1st 2010 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
probs be the best thing to happen to union too if it ever happens, but right now the strength is there
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:37am | Report comment
Realist
At the professional level….then yes! But I wasn’t taught to defend in League and I have the footage to prove I can tackle.
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 2:36am | Report comment
I reckon rugby league involves more skill than rugby union, especially when it comes to using ball-skills and vision to create line-breaks. The flyhalves and scrumhalves in rugby union tend to possess inferior ball-skills to the halfbacks, five-eighthes and dummy-halves in rugby league: the latter are quicker between the ears; are more nimble on their feet; are better defenders; have a better passing game; have a better short kicking game, and; have better vision. The rugby union flyhalves I’ve seen do nothing other than kick the ball long or throw the ball to their outside backs because they don’t want to get tackled. I’ve never seen a fly-half in rugby union create a line-break for their outside backs. I’ve regularly seen ball-players in rugby league, such as like Lockyer, Thurston, Johns and Wally Lewis, use great vision and excellent ball-skills to create a line-break for a) themselves or b) their outside backs.
You might attribute the aforementioned trends to the extra space and time that the 10-metre rule offers rugby league’s ball-players, but this only proves that rugby league is a better television product and a better option for skillful athletes who wish to test themselves. The three things that rugby union prides itself on — scrummaging, line-outs and the rucking — make it slower, less exciting and less open-flowing than rugby league, thus making it a poorer spectacle.
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 10:34am | Report comment
If RL player’s are so skillful then why the hell do scouts show up to Schoolboy Rugby games. If you have such an immense pool of talent why is there are need to scout Rugby’s juniors. From experience RL player’s are no more skillful than Rugby. It attended school with several up and comer’s ( multiple Aus teams) and can honestly say that they were no more talented or skillful footballer’s than Rugby. Whether you like it or not space makes the big difference.
I’m a big lad, at school I was a big lad. Give me 10 metres to move and I am very difficult to stop. It usually takes 5 guys to do so but thats after makes metres up the middle. In Rugby I never had that sort of space and literally had to wrestle my way forward. Space makes a world of difference.
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 9:18pm | Report comment
“Whether you like it or not space makes the big difference”
The 10-metre rule in rugby league allows the ball-players and ball-runners to refine their skills and partake in complex attacking plays because they have more time and more opportunity to focus on this facet of the game. The play-the-ball rule helps too because it allows the attacking players to focus solely on what they’re going to do with the ball. A rugby union backline cannot focus solely on what is does with the ball because it is interrupted by the need to secure possession at the breakdown.
A talented athlete who has good hand-eye coordination is better off playing rugby league, which is what usually happens. Rugby union tends to attract clumsy, second-rate athletes who are neither skillful enough nor tough enough to cut the mustard in rugby league.
Rugby league is the ideal code for any player who wants to develop great skills. It’s also the ideal code for anyone who wants to watch an exciting, skillful sport. Watching rugby union and playing in one of its backlines is like watching The Bill, with the exception being it’s less exciting and more drawn out.
“I’m a big lad, at school I was a big lad. Give me 10 metres to move and I am very difficult to stop. It usually takes 5 guys to do so but thats after makes metres up the middle. In Rugby I never had that sort of space and literally had to wrestle my way forward. Space makes a world of difference.”
Which is why rugby union teams look to rugby league players for advice on how to tackle. Rugby league’s fast gameplay and greater space between the two teams forces its players to be stronger, tougher, more skillful, fitter and quicker than the ones from your code.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
your name is quite ironic
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 10:22pm | Report comment
You’re just angry because you know I’m right
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 10:35pm | Report comment
im just a bit sick of all this, we are all just as stubborn as eachother and there is no way that one cold sway the other in the opposing direction, so why do we bother?, we have our own crowd, i could argue against that little blurt about Rugby Union players being second rate athletes, because that is nonsense, even we acknowledge that league players are good players and so are AFL players and Soccer players, they are all good athletes, thats rather just an insult to create backlash, which you know. There is no way that that could be the case, in any world, that could easily be opposed because of the stealing of players from each code over the years for others, deeming that argument null and void, for either code. the acknowledgement of athletism is always there. lets not attack the players, we’re to attack the game thats fine, as its a natural rivalry. besides, one day either the codes will change enough to become so different as to not inspire code wars, or come back together.
Realist said | January 4th 2010 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
Hi rugbyfuture,
The reason I mocked rugby union and its players during this thread is because I am sick of rugby union fanatics (IE. Siva Samoa) leaving their anti-RL sentiments under rugby league articles.
rugbyfuture said | January 4th 2010 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
oh i understand, i’ve done the same thing and the same thing has happened to me, that was just a simple explanation as to why i stopped, as i said, by its nature a sport site attracts fanatics, and by that nature there is always going to be zealotess following of each code, mocking and arguments.
Dogs Of War said | January 4th 2010 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
Rugbyfuture was the first to put the boot into League in this article. Just watch how the commentary quickly turns into a League vs Union debate. All because Union supporters can’t help themselves.
rugbyfuture said | January 4th 2010 @ 9:04pm | Report comment
lets not avoid the fact dogs that this article was originally a knock to league anyways, the first comment i put forward was simply passing information, and the second was an explanation on why i prefer Union, it was then an inference that RU forwards arent athletes and don’t work that started it, by Master Blaster
Realist said | January 4th 2010 @ 10:30pm | Report comment
rugbyfuture,
What is it about rugby union that appeals to you? I cannot watch it for more than 20 minutes without wanting to a) change the channel or b) go to sleep. I enjoyed playing it when I was younger because I didn’t need to be fit in order to succeed in it, but I never rated it as a spectator sport.
rugbyfuture said | January 4th 2010 @ 10:43pm | Report comment
it is very much more a players game, i preferred and still prefer the pushing in the game and being able to join in on the ruck and maul, (i had a particular strength in the contested scrums and mauls off a lineout). I am a prop forward though. the push through and continual rolling maul straight onto the line was also a favourite as i used to score many tries off of it.
What i don’t enjoy about league is the fact that it lacks some of that push and shove and a bit more of the rough stuff, although i acknowledge they still hit rather hard. the play on the ball does defeat one of the purposes for playing to me, as you can’t get the ball other than from an intercept or on their own error, or at the end of the five.
It’s quite true that Rugby is not as fast and progressive as it should be, however i believe that they will be fixed in the near future (post 2011). Whereas league is becoming increasingly americanised, which i also hate.
They’ll eventually get the formula right to encourage phase ball and less complex (rd; perspective) decisions, and also less kicking.
Siva Samoa said | January 2nd 2010 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Have you heard of Frano Botica, Dan Carter, Carlos Spenser, Johnathan Davies, Stephen Larkam, Darren kellet, Seremaia Bai, François Trinh-Duc, Jon Preston, Graig Chalmers, Lescabura and many rugby union fly halves who were good ball runners, great ball skills and defence ?
Realist said | January 2nd 2010 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
Siva Samoa,
What makes you think any of those blokes would make it in rugby league?
I’d hardly call them great. I doubt their ability to achieve anything of significance in rugby league.
True Tah said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
Realist
I know for a fact that Jonathan Davies made it in rugby league, that is if you call playing for British rugby league team and winning Man of Steel in 1994 “making it in rugby league”. He played rugby league for the Doggies and the Cowboys.
Frano Botica played rugby league for New Zealand as well, Ill admit that my knowledge of his achievements isnt so great, but he was still good enough to represent his country.
Realist said | January 4th 2010 @ 8:32pm | Report comment
“I know for a fact that Jonathan Davies made it in rugby league, that is if you call playing for British rugby league team and winning Man of Steel in 1994 “making it in rugby league”. He played rugby league for the Doggies and the Cowboys” — True Tah
The Cowboys won just 2 games during Davies’ stint with them.
Dogs Of War said | January 4th 2010 @ 8:35pm | Report comment
Yeah, but Johnathan Davies what part of a Dogs team nickname the comeback kids. I loved watching him go around at Belmore. Fantastic player.
Bay35Pablo said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
Let’s not even get into how many union boys got signed up in the 1980s (to pick one decade) and went on to become top league players ….
In the words of Midnight Oil – “Short memory, must have a … “
Crosscoder said | January 2nd 2010 @ 5:32am | Report comment
Siva Samoa
Cut the crap,suggesting gridiron ,equestrian etc are not included in private school programs,therefore why should rl.They are not within cooee of being mainstream sports,in this country rugby league happens to be no1 in NSW and Qld in terms of popularity,soccer no 1 in participation.
I attended one of these schools mate(lucky I guess)and I am telling you what I experienced,over my high school years.Like it or lump it.It is discrimination(meaning treating unfairly) pure and simple.
When at school it was embedded in me, earning money to pay players,was the pits,you play for love.Then find players had been earning money under the table,and then when Fox Tv comes along, the rah rah mob tripped over themselves in the rush to get a slice of the action,to do exactly that .What hypocrisy.
I can understand why you don’t want to be reminded about V…y and Craven,reality can hurt some times.Oh! your mob were not on the receiving end.They were the”generous” givers.You have never accepted anything happened,says it all.
And champ I don’t get upset when a journo has a one off shot at rl.I criticise aspects of rl eg have a shot at Gallop/Love /the lack of a season schedule and say soon .I get upset at the same union inclined journos on almost a weekly basis having a go at rl,as if they have nothing else to rite about.And judging by both of them,predicting rl would be dead 5 years ago,they have NFI.You obviously do little reading of Sydney press.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
but do u agree with working class rugger in that the league schools, of which there are more of, most likely discriminate against union too?
Street Cred said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
The public schools would reflect the relative popularity of sports within its region. In most countries that would be soccer, in Melbourne it is AR, and in NSW and Queensland there are more playing league than union. It is driven by the demand of the boys. What’s the point in offering a RU option at a school if enough of the boys don’t want to play it. The only way that would work is if you denied the boys a choice of options, as we find happens in the private schools.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
theres more popularity for union on the north shore and eastern suburbs, and traditions at kings, so in their own they do reflect the popularity of their general target market. especially since many public schools play union in the north and its mainly the catholic schools that provide league
Street Cred said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
Stick to following your niche sport and wistful dreams of ever attaining a wider audience. If the NRL collapsed tomorrow, everyone would move to soccer or AFL, not RU.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
that doesnt counter my statement at all nor does it reinforce yours, which means that you cannot find error in my judgement, i never said otherwise about what would happen if the NRL collapsed, more people play AFL and soccer anyway
Street Cred said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Oh gawd. Is posting on the Roar all about me “find error in my judgement” in your posts? That explains a lot.
From what I can see of your posts, and the replies others make to them, is that you invariably backtrack and/or toss up some abuse.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
again, theres no explanation as to the original argument that the schools on the north shore provide union because it is more popular in that area. you were arguing contrary to that.
thats one thread within this post, and look at what you just wrote, id rather stick by the argument than go off into saying that i can’t argue properly
Street Cred said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
You need to slow down and READ what I write, and more importantly, what I don’t write.
Nowhere did I write that RU wasn’t more popular on the NS.
I referred to RU as being a niche sport, and In Australia, that’s what it is, no matter how much you like to imagine it to be otherwise.
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
“If the NRL collapsed tomorrow, everyone would move to soccer or AFL, not RU.”
I’m in tears here. Much as I hate it – ROFLOL!!!
Southern Districts would get an awesome side with all those Dragons and Sharks players ….
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
thats what im saying street cred, you avoided the argument, your original statement was implying that the kids at the private schools were being forced into union, because of fascist anti league co curricula coordinators, i was simply saying, as you said that the schools reflect the prefferred football code
Springs said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Well when the League club collapsed out here no one went to union. Firstly, it isn’t popular so our small town has never had a Union club, secondly the players don’t like Union so they decided not to play, and thirdly some went into other towns/Groups and played league there.
So I would say if the NRL collapsed then the players would just play in the lower comps, and a new National Comp would be up within years.
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
Street Cred, sorry, missed your point. When you said NRL I took it to mean all league. Yes you are right, most would drop to NSW Cup etc. However, you would find a lot of professional players would look to go overseas to play, including rugby, as they have mortgages to cover. Further, there would be bound to be some go to union.
Street Cred said | January 2nd 2010 @ 7:04pm | Report comment
I was referring to all RL in Australia, but had in mind where the juniors and fans would all go.
AFL provides weekly club football and has traditional teams that fans will quickly buy into, RU doesn’t.
Soccer offers its “world game” appeal and internationals. RU does, but pales in comparison.
If league went bankrupt tomorrow, or merged with RU, the winners would be AFL and soccer.
Siva Samoa said | January 6th 2010 @ 1:09am | Report comment
Your such a dreamer street cred. I cant see all those Polynesian and Pacific Islands league players going to soccer and AFL.
You know most of those players would switch to rugby and play in a real rugby world cup. Stop been so paranoid.
Siva Samoa said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:35pm | Report comment
rugby league schools in brisbane only have one team or four teams from the whole schools and there are only a handful of so call rugby league schools that compete. not every public schools in brisbane have a rugby league team.
Most private and Catholic schools in brisbane have more than ten teams that played every saturday . Some GPS schools even have more than 15 teams. I wouldn’t be surprise if there are more rugby union players in brisbane high schools then rugby league but league has it in primary schools and juniors at club level.
Siva Samoa said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Your crusade to get rugby league into GPS private schools is the same crusade as getting rugby union to be played in rugby league state schools.
Its the same crusade as trying to get other private schools into the GPS schools system but the GPS schools won’t let them in. Is that discrimination as well ?
I don’t know what paying players under the table back in amateur days got to do with your school education but it didn’t bother me if it did happen. Yes rugby union went professional in 1995 and its the best thing to ever happen in rugby since the introduction of the rugby world cup.
Vichy and craven never happen and its only a wet dream for you leaguies. its 2010 and you guys are still crying over spill milk. Grow up and move on.
Tell me which rugby union journos are having a go at league every week ? Im sure you read Gordon Tallis and Graham Lowe anti rugtby union rants every year.
Elbusto said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
Professionalism might be the best thing to happen to Rugby Union. But the latest laws are the worst thing to happen to it. Rugby is now a tedious game which bores me senseless. And I say that after watching and playing the game for 40 years. I have never seen it in a worse state.
Siva Samoa said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
If you think the latest laws in rugby union are bad then you haven’t seen the game of rugby union in the 60’s and 70’s. It was even worst with more kicking and more scrums and lineouts but it was still very popular. There are born and bred rugby league players who had played in all level of rugby league in the past who are also bored to death with the current touch rugby that is going on in the NRL.
Norm said | January 2nd 2010 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
Speaking of journos Civy here’s what English sports journalist, Lynne Truss, had to say about rugby union in her book “Get Her Off The Pitch”.
“The final game I didn’t understand and didn’t enjoy much either was rugby…there was an insuperable obstacle to enjoyment in the case of rugby…as far as I could see, it was a game that no one watching it fully understood…Every few seconds the game would stop for one side or the other to be penalised…it drove me nuts that the game turned so often on rulings that were accepted by all and sundry as unfathomable…The entire effing game is played for the benefit of its officiator…In 1999, of course, there was the rugby World Cup. I expected it to win me over, but it didn’t. I got quite bored, and I wasn’t the only one. It was generally thought to have been too drawn out, to lack drama, and to lack much decent offensive play…I don’t remember the details of a single match I saw – and I went to five, including the South Africa-Australia semi-final at Twickenham and the final…I felt that the rules of rugby would definitely benefit from simplification (how about having fewer players?)…
Did you like that last suggestion Civy? Not that you’d be interested in her book; there are no pictures
Siva Samoa said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
I wonder what she said if she was watching all the anzac test matches in the last five years. she’ll be heading home just after halftime when the kiwi’s gave up and tckle like girls.
Crosscoer said | January 2nd 2010 @ 5:51am | Report comment
WCR
One of the reasons Campese didn’t last long in junior rl,was his poor defence.Seems it carried thought to ru,so he appears to have learnt little in that code also.Maybe he couyld have learnt form his little nephew.
Believe me at my one and only year of rl before going to a union playing school,I learnt to defend,and where to position my head in a front on tackle ,and where to tackle waist and below.Preferably legs.Tackling above the waist was frowned upon then.Pity some of the NRL players don’t do the same.
At the union school the emphasis was hardly on defence, more so scrummage,and support play for the forward with the pill,lineout techniques(whatever) and using weight and body mass for mauls and rucks.I seemd to spend the game forming scrums,running to a lineout and sticking my head where it should or shouldn’t be.Too technical for me to play,too hard to watch sorry that is just me perhaps.I scored 1 try(a fall over the line from a maul) in 5 years playing union,says it all for me.
Crosscoder said | January 2nd 2010 @ 5:54am | Report comment
Bay35Pablo
Sorry, re the confusion as to referencing the stats.I noted 6-8 weeks ago:a wild guess.Too many late nights and too bleeding tired is my only excuse.Just bone lazy on my part.
matty1974 said | January 2nd 2010 @ 6:25am | Report comment
I think the NRL TV and attendance figures this year clearly demonstrates that the off field behaviour of the players will not stop ordinary punters from consuming the game. If there is any effect, it would be sponsors walking away from the game if they feel it is bad for their company. No doubt if the numbers stack up there wil be other sponsors ready to pony up. I think NRL/AFL player gets drunk and bashes woman/urinates in public etc are just another theme the media knows will sell papers and has become a staple of their ‘angles’. Bit like A Current Affair and Today Tonight doing stories about miracle weight loss pills, dodgy builders and welfare bludgers.
Crosscoder said | January 2nd 2010 @ 6:30am | Report comment
Siva Samoa.
You are kidding (then again nothing surprises)suggesting because gridiron ,equestrian etc are not included in a sports’ curriculum,then why should rl.Reality check :rugby league is a mainstream sport,in terms of popularity in NSW and Qld.
The fact that you avoid V..hy and Craven like the plague,shows you still cntinuously cannot bring yourself to admit, your code had an input.Rubbing salt into old wounds,isn’t a comfortable experience for anyone denial.Your code was not on the receiving end,just the “considerate” givers.
I will repeat when union journos continually have nothing better to do,than have a shot at rl,on a continuous not a one off basis ,then they have an agenda against a sport.I do not in Sydney read rl journos week after week have a shot at union just for the sake of it.Yes there have been the odd one offs,that is all.
I don’t know where you reside,but your knowledge of what goes on in the Sydney press appears non existent.
Crosscoder said | January 2nd 2010 @ 6:43am | Report comment
Rob
Wrong about 30 years professionalism and I suggest you check with the likes of John Elliot of Carlton and the deeds swept under the carpet,not that long ago.Good old alleged hush money.
If there were next to no incidents in AFL, you may have a point.
And anti social behavior still goes on with players of all codes.
Suggest you read my previous comment as reported by(the NRL) the academic emphasis placed on up and coming rl players.
They are also being lectured in their responsibilies as citizens>they employ former players like Nigel Vagana and Mark o’Neill
former senior palyers and model citizens to ram the message home.
Look no further than the slopfest at the GC schoolies week.Parents plying their kids with supplies of alcohol,and many feeling getting under the weather etc as being a form of recognition.,
It starts in the home.
i have seen kids from respectable homes and schools go off the rails,and brickies and labourers lead responsible lives.
You can’t watch players 24 hours.We all stuff up at some stage in our lives.
Elbusto said | January 2nd 2010 @ 9:04am | Report comment
This is a non article. Apaway obviously cannot cope with the success of League this year so has to find some negatives which he does without producing any statistical analysis.
Football has well and truly had the playing numbers for years in Sydney. The growth in AFL is being inflated by fatuous AUSKICK figures (so lets add OZTAG and Touch Football to League participation so League can cheat the numbers count as well), and Rugby’s growth has ceased at all levels.
I do not know or care who Apaway is. But I do know that this was one sloppy piece of writing based on nothing other than prejudice against a great game.
Its just a heap of general statements without any basis in fact. Nice try mate but I am sorry you will have to do better next time with some facts and figures.
Oh and by the way, wasn’t it great that so many people tuned into the NRL this year. Obviously Apaway does not agree.
apaway said | January 2nd 2010 @ 5:34pm | Report comment
Elbusto, I have no prejudice against league. As I mentioned in a previous post, I love the game, and this year was the first time I missed seeing a Grand Final in 35 years. I acknowledged the NRL’s viewership in the first paragraph of the article. I was one of the many who watched in 2009. But once again, what should have been good news for the code was spoiled by another case of alcohol-fueled player trouble.
That the game has a problem in this area is something acknowldeged by David Gallop himself. How telling was Roosters CEO Steve Noyce’s reaction in front of the media when the latest Jake Friend incident occurred?
Elbusto said | January 2nd 2010 @ 9:19pm | Report comment
Sorry mate but its obvious to anyone you have it in for League. Your article is a deliberate attempt to put a negative spin on every facet of League except the viewership. Its there for all to see. I am not even sure what the point of your article is if that is not the case.
The AFL had dozens of player indiscretions this year – I like the way you single the NRL out though – it exposes you immediately.
apaway said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
The point of the article was to give an example of how the circumstances leading up to a “drinking session” occur, how they might be avoided, and how the responsibility for player behaviour shouldn’t rest solely with the player. There can’t be a “zero tolerance” approach to alcohol for 10 weeks, then to all intents and a declaration that all bets are off for a weekend, without expecting problems.
Siva Samoa said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
Touch rugby doesn’t belong or run by the ARL.
Elbusto said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
I realise that. My point is that codes including ventures like Auskick in their participation rates are telling porkies and using spin. The AFL does it one hell of a lot.
Mister Football said | January 2nd 2010 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
There’s a stack of misinformation on here about how Auskick works.
One bloke on another thread reckons that it gets counted three times – that’s BS.
It’s a registration – just like anything else – how many kids does soccer include for kids aged 4 to 9 running around for half an hour each Saturday playing small sided games, no goals, no refes, a few cones – so you tell me what’s the difference between that and Auskick?
All that side – in case anyone hasn’t noticed – particiapation means bugger all.
Walking, running and cycling are the most popular sports activities in terms of participation – but TV stations aren’t falling over themselves to telecast walking races.
AndyRoo said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:45pm | Report comment
It’s in this very thread Pip, and no one challenged what I wrote because I never said Auskick registers you 3 times. I said it’s possible to be registered 3 times quite easily in AFL (though twice would be the most likely number) so thankfully everyone else can see what I actually wrote.
Whereas in football I would say there is less than 1% of doubling up of registrations as it would only be players who have payed to play for one club and then moved in season to play for another
Football only counts full club based registration (which is expensive), and even then there are approx 50 clubs in Sth East QLD alone who play outside this system and don’t have a single player officially registered.
There are 3 kinds of Auskick, one is just like every other junior rego. You play a full season worth of AFL but with modified rules because of the players age. Nothing other codes wouldn’t do and I think everyone should agree that deserves to count as a full registered player.
Then there is school based Auskick and thirdly the 6 week summer Auskick course. I would assume kids would only play in one Auskick a year but if you live in QLD then it’s quite easy to be counted 3 times.
If you play for your school (1 registration)
If you play for a Club (2nd registration)
You then play in that clubs summer Auskick (3rd registration)
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Elbusto, all the codes pad their figures like this. Unless they have a national database that eliminates duplication, they can’t avoid it. And even then, they all like ignoring it because it makes them look bigger. It is really annoying for those of us trying to work out the “real” numbers.
Elbusto said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
I agree!!!!!!!
Siva Samoa said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
Rugby league use the same methods and add up kids who participate in school one day carnivals, coaching sessions and after schools activities.
How do you know Rugby’s growth has ceased at all levels in Australia Elbusto ?
Springs said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
Touch football (It’s actual name) originated from Rugby League, not Rugby Union.
Touch Rugby is derived from Union and is not the sport played by hundreds of thousands in Australia.
Barney said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
That’s not correct. The “touch rugby” played under the RFU is touch footy and Oz Tag with a RFU logo added. They have 6 tackles, dummy half, marker and a changeover.
http://www.rfu.com/TakingPart/Play/Leisure/TypeOfLeisureRugby/Tag
Springs said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
Exactly, what they are playing there is Touch Football, derived from the sport of Rugby League. The four rules you stated seem awfully foreign to the game of Union.
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Barney, agreed. Rugby has continually refused to get involved with touch rugby, or a rugby “version”. This is ridculously short sighted. Many rugby players play touch in the off season to keep fitness and skills. A touch version would be a great way to ease juniors and women into the sport (quite apart from the fact junior rugby to about age 9 is non-tackle anyway). Some might never want to play more than touch, but if this involves them in the rugby community then great!!!
For my mind a touch version with lineouts, non-contested scrums, and a form of non-tackle breakdowns could be formulated, and still involve many of the elements of rugby without being what is more a version of league.
oikee said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Rugby union is a elitetist sport, so will never take off in oz where people are more equal. Upper lower class very thin. England, they have done a good job to keep the game strong, but time is running out for them as rugby league is sweeping the country. Sth Africa, this is just a extension from English upper class, the game and country are going nowhere. NZ, rugby league has already taken hold and is growing fast again, next few years will return the sport to strength, probably after the Rugby world cup has moved on which will bring NZ to its knees in Dept.
France, rugby league is getting its act together and should keep growing at a steady rate. Japan, not really a serious contender, just a money making sub market for Union. China is the country that rugby league will take hold, and with 1 billion, china along with 1 billion in India plus the other 900 million around asia, growth market. Union can have Japan, its all they can acheive, t/v is the new market, rugby league is going to be the choice of billions. The sooner rugby union dies off, the sooner we can take on soccer across the world.
Sorry if this post offends some guys, but i have my eyes on the future, and the future does not involve rugby union. You might be able to pander to Japan, but your dreaming if you think you can “panda” to China, the waking Tiger. The Chinese have 2 sports on their agenda’s AFL and NRL, the 2 largest sports in Australia.
Elbusto said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
Yes and when the Chinese Bombers play the Sydney Celtics in a game of AFL in 2050 I will be there in my orange pyjamas with my pink elephant flying close by my side lapping it all up.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
actually the chinese emphasise football (soocer) and Rugby union, Football because of its world game nature and Rugby Union is the military game used because it emphasises teamwork and comradery, the beijing devils and shanghai hairy crabs are the two leading clubs, although currently played mainly by expats. the Peoples liberation army have it as their official team sport and compete in the hong kong competition, which may i add is quite popular in itself
Elbusto said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
I remember some years ago the Chinese wanted the NZRU to provide some coaches to help grow the game there. The NZRU were interested until the Chinese stated the number was (from memory) 7000.
I found this very amusing. China seriously wanted to adopt Rugby, particularly for the army, as a major sport at that time. This was about 20-25 years ago.
rugbyfuture said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
they still do, they’re pretty hard at it trying to build it up, because they wanna beat the koreans, japanese and kazakhs and see it as capitalising on the popularity in Hong Kong, and you better believe they’ll have a good team by the 2016 olympics
Bay35Pablo said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
“Sth Africa, this is just a extension from English upper class” Yeah, must be why the Boers love it so much.
“the game and country are going nowhere”. Rugby union is probably at its strongest in South Africa. 3 vibrant levels of comp – Vodacom Cup, Currie Cup and Super 14. Plus all the mateur levels below.
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
Don’t forget the Varsity Cup there very own version of College Football which is also proving to be quite popular. I have even heard that they broadcast High School games in the Republic.
Pete said | January 2nd 2010 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
Oikee, I love it … always do. China and India… AFL and RL !? Whatever is in the water up there should be fed to the rest of OZ.
Working Class Rugger said | January 2nd 2010 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
Oikee, Oikee, Oikee….What else can I say. You need help mate. Serious help. China. Are you serious. Mate, for that to happen you’ll actually have to get the game played there first. Same with India. Dismissing Japan is a mistake as they are still one of the largest economies in the world regardless of the recession there currently experiencing. Oikee. Oikee, Oikee. Such a worry.
John said | January 2nd 2010 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
The biggest Rugby competition in the world is the Sydney Suburban competition, more than 20 cups and they all play for nothing but the fun of it, and it is a lot of fun to watch.
If the NSWRU could figure out how to use it they would really be on to something.
Craig Eyles said | January 2nd 2010 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
Why don’t you break down the figures so that they’re not so misleading for us all??
Take out the NRL Toyota Cup/Origin games, the AFL pre-seaon comp & the regionals, & the AFL wins by nearly 11 million viewers.
In fact, less people watch the NRL in Sydney than the AFL in Melbourne despite the population difference.
Dogs Of War said | January 2nd 2010 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
Except the NRL is paid for all of those events as part of their current TV contract, so why wouldn’t you include them when comparing it to AFL’s? Just cause the AFL doesn’t have as many levels to the game, doesn’t mean other sports have to come down to their level.
Oh and please don’t write “in fact” unless you are going to back that statement up with links to where you got your data from proving it is FACT!
hutch said | January 2nd 2010 @ 5:14pm | Report comment
the afl is shown prime time nationally, while channel ‘nein’ continues to refuse to show rugby league at a decent hour in melbourne, perth and adelaide despite continually pulling in good ratings. if all things were equal rugby league would win convincingly. the codes go head to head on fox sports and the nrl wins very comfortably!
Redb said | January 2nd 2010 @ 8:38pm | Report comment
AFL shown in prime time nationally eh?
So the marquee Friday Night AFL game is shown in prime time in Sydney and Brisbane.
learn the facts, the actual numbers of AFL shown ‘nationally’ in prime time is bugger all.
Foxtel has grater penetration in Sydney/Brisbane and this gives it the ratings edge, as rugby league is Foxtel’s start up product.
Have a look at Friday Nigth ratings for AFL in Melb v NRl in Sydney for an entire season and the difference is significant for the AFL. If pay Tv was widespread the results would be very different.
The FACT is the AFL has not sold its soul to pay TV like the NRL.
Redb
Sam el Perro said | January 3rd 2010 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
“AFL shown in prime time nationally eh?
”
On Saturday nights, yes.
Dogs Of War said | January 3rd 2010 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
It also has the advantage or so I am told of the Friday nights being available on main event live. Apparently there are pubs in Sydney where Swans supporters huddle around the TV showing it, with queues outside to get in. It’s right next to the pub where all the Union supporters hide, which explains the poor ratings both sports get in Sydney
Actually I just realised that to enjoy those sports you must be inebriated. Figures…
Redb said | January 3rd 2010 @ 8:25pm | Report comment
The comment was the AFL is shown in prime time nationally.
Dogs Of War said | January 3rd 2010 @ 8:29pm | Report comment
The only slot it misses out on is Friday nights in NSW/QLD. There are just as many AFL matches on Free to Air in Sydney as NRL games on any given week, if not more some weeks.
Redb said | January 3rd 2010 @ 9:32pm | Report comment
The only AFL game that would count would be games involving the Swans. Could you imagine Melb watching the NRL if Melb was not playing. You might get a dedicated niche audience and thats it. The odd AFL game gets 90K (Carl v Coll) in Sydney but really the only game would expect to do OK would be a live match of the round on Friday Night and that never happens not even in Melb where it is on 1 hour delay.
You dont seriously think Sydneysiders would tune in their droves to watch Melb v West Coast on a Sunday arvo
Usually the games have to hold some loyalty interest for non core fans. eg: I might watch the odd Melb Victory game, but wouldn’t bother with GC v Perth.
Redb
Dogs Of War said | January 3rd 2010 @ 9:38pm | Report comment
I think when the digital TV rules are relaxed, we may be a little surprised on how the audiences take to products. NRL/AFL being available on Friday nights/Sundays (for the NRL) where it hasn’t been available before, while the main code iin that state has a game which is a bit one sided, may provide the other code with an audience that wants to watch a contest and help build interest in it. Interesting times ahead.
hutch said | January 5th 2010 @ 6:33pm | Report comment
which it does saturday nights, and is shown live on sundays. rugby league does not get this in the vfl states despite pulling decent ratings previously.
M1tch said | January 3rd 2010 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
Super League sold its sold..the NRL had no choice
kick,clap,kick said | January 2nd 2010 @ 6:12pm | Report comment
Craig Eyles
Why don’t you break down the figures so that they’re not so misleading for us all??
Take out the NRL Toyota Cup/Origin games, the AFL pre-seaon comp & the regionals, & the AFL wins by nearly 11 million viewers.
In fact, less people watch the NRL in Sydney than the AFL in Melbourne despite the population difference.
Haa another AFL fan whinging ……
Mate it is not RLs fault that they have interstate games & international games….but lets discount those figures.
It’s not RL’s fault that they have a vibrant u/20s comp that rates well on pay(sometimes better than super 14)…but lets discount that.
It’s not RL’s fault that the majority of people who live in regional OZ follow RL….so lets discount them…they probably don’t own a tv ….seems that only people with tvs in the 5 capitals count as viewers.
There’s your figures …you can sleep happy now.
M1tch said | January 2nd 2010 @ 7:51pm | Report comment
Looking back its funny how the article is boasting that Rugby League had a bad year with all the bad headlines, but clearly states that its popularity was up from 2008.
Facts like the number of juniors in Sydney is laughable and clearly no research has been done from the owner.
At the end of the day, the game took a battering from the media, some deserved, some/most is simply the bandwagon effect and the smear campaign that is against the game.
So many people want the game to die, but even after the last 2 years with players ‘behaving badly’ and players leaving, the game is still number 1 in the 2 states that every other code wants.
Redb said | January 2nd 2010 @ 8:42pm | Report comment
“the game is still number 1 in the 2 states that every other code wants”
Fishbowl comment of the year.
do you really think the NRL does not desperately want Victoria? or super rugby or the A League.
You forget the great Sydney fickleness for sport – one year RL, next year who knows?
M1tch said | January 2nd 2010 @ 8:45pm | Report comment
Of course the NRL would like to be bigger in Victoria
But its quite simply with expansion from AFL and a-league that NSW and QLD are the states they want to get into..
And as I say with the battering the game took, its still easily number 1
Redb said | January 3rd 2010 @ 5:58am | Report comment
with 9 teams it ought to be.
How can ratings in Sydney increase by 20% from one year to the next? Hmmm…. was the game crap to watch in 2008?
Fickle fickle fickle.
M1tch said | January 3rd 2010 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
Actually the game itself was better in 2009 than it was in 2008
Redb said | January 3rd 2010 @ 6:00am | Report comment
…with 9 teams it ought to be.
How can ratings in Sydney increase by almost 20% from one year to the next? Hmmm…. was the game terrible to watch in 2008?
Fickle fickle fickle.
Elbusto said | January 3rd 2010 @ 6:35am | Report comment
I notice you seem to enjoy putting a negative spin on every bit of good news for the NRL in Sydney or anywhere else. I take it you are not a fan …….
Elbusto said | January 3rd 2010 @ 11:37am | Report comment
posted twice and just as bad each time RDDB
oikee said | January 3rd 2010 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
Redb, you should be more concerned about your own game in Victoria, we all just read the report how 4-5 teams need to be propped up by millions each year, and when the money runs out suporting 2 new teams, you will need to cut back, at least rugby league clubs in Sydney are half alive, not half dead.
The Storm are apart of Melbourne, weather you like it or not, same as the Swans and Lions are part of our cities teams. Now stop the crap, rugby league and AFL are thriving sports, lets just worry about expanding into China.
Redb said | January 3rd 2010 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
The weather has been a bit flukey lately.
You will always have teams that are struggling – you generally wont find them at the top of the ladder unless they made some bad choices like the Carringbush.
I suspect 4-5 NRL clubs arent traveling that well either.
Comps needs to make enough money to support the poorer clubs.
Clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong were broke 10 years ago, they are now two of the strongest. All clubs are getting smarter but some like Sth Melb and Fitzroy never really had a critical mass of fans. I dont who those clubs are in the NRL currently but you’ll find the Canterbury’s and Parras of the wrold will never go under as they have large fan bases even when they struggle on the field. When they do well on the field they make a killing.
Redb
Springs said | January 2nd 2010 @ 10:28pm | Report comment
100 years RL, next year…RL. And if you noticed RL had it’s biggest season crowd wise on 2005, even Cronulla had more than 16,000 average crowds. AFL was never number 1. Union/soccer has never been no.1 (past 1908).
hutch said | January 5th 2010 @ 6:39pm | Report comment
you mean 101 years RL, next year who knows?
i do, rugby league!
kick,clap,kick said | January 2nd 2010 @ 8:59pm | Report comment
You forget the great Sydney fickleness for sport – one year RL, next year who knows?
Been no 1 in SYD more than one yr….try the last 100 yrs,& no matter how much wishful dreaming by AFL fans thats the facts.
Redb said | January 2nd 2010 @ 9:17pm | Report comment
wishful dreaming?
Where was it ever said AFL is dominant in Sydney? – are you blokes that insecure you think it was ever questioned?
Oh yeah AFL was dominant in 2005 when the Swans won – the Sydney way.
Easy come easy go my friend that is the Sydney way.
Redb
Jay said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
I jumped on the swans bandwagon in 2005 and watched most of their games on tv that year, I didnt watch one game in 2009. But I highly doubt your assetion that AFL was dominant in 2005.. In 2005, there was the wests tigers cinderella story premiership and they had more people behind them than the swans.
oikee said | January 3rd 2010 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
The main point i always make is the fact rugby league is shown live throughout the Asian Nations, State of Origin, Grand and semi finals, not to mention Aussie rules also have a live coverage into Asia, with a decent audience. Yes rugby union might be played by the milatary, so is rugby league now played by milatary also, it is not hard to change from rugby to league.Ask Jamaica.
You guys have no idea about rugby league, the game is brordcast into more than 55 countries, and is quite popular. Same applies to aussie rules, why do you think the Dragon has started to build Oval grounds. Just remember, if China wants something, China gets, and they dont like Bussiness bullies pushing their weight around, so i see China moving to Rugby League, with gutso, expecially after they read the book on rugby league injustices by rugby Union.
As you may have seen by the economic downturn, Europe is nothing more than a pimple, america is no longer a real world power, and as someone mentioned, Japan, yes has clout, but will quickly resolve into their place in the world, behind China, behind America, Behind, Asean, and behind EU, so play Japan for all its worth, you will find out it is nothing more than a pimple, like other so called powers found out, UK, Sth Africa, America,…, Brazil will overtake these countries soon. Australia is the teflon tiger, we ride the back and are becoming more important in 3rd world country growth and economics, you guys just dont see whats going on, like many others.
The dragon has woken, and your boring silly remarks about rugby league are growing thin, as i mentioned and no longer will mention, 10 years, lets see where things are in 10 years. I already know how good rugby league will be going, i know the dragon likes rugby league, they also like assie rules, and both games have equal footing into china, nothing can stop these 2 games from thriving.
Remember, Kevin Rudd enjoys 2 sports, League and Rules, he will promote these 2 codes to china, and i am sure the Chinese Bussiness men take note of these codes, they are light years ahead of us in everything they do. Embrace the Dragon, or get left behind. Cheers.
rugbyfuture said | January 3rd 2010 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
wheres this stuff about the chinese being interested in league or aussie rules? ive never seen it at all
you think that the chinese care for social injustices? or political regimes taking complete control of a sport?
and what are the ratings of the “live” broadcast RL and AFL matches compared to their own RU matches?
Brazil are also becoming quite good at Rugby and have even pledged to bid for the sevens world cup in 2013
and indeed we will see what happens in 10 years, and if indeed you stick by this rule, you wouldnt predict anything for RL or RU or aussie rules
economics, trade and politics has nothing to do with sport, especially with countries in asia so willing to retain cultural identity
both games do have equal footing in china, with a boot they threw over the wall.
Remember Kevin Rudd has bigger problems to fix than to spruke these two sports, he aint your representative.
the chinese business men are the chinese government and they’ll do whatever they like
the commies will get overthrown one day, and the country will split so watch what will happen in 10 years
Mister Football said | January 3rd 2010 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
See this report, with links to other reports:
http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20091123203321370?query=Chinese
rugbyfuture said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
watabout his so called RL matches?
rugbyfuture said | January 3rd 2010 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
and if indeed the chinese take up league, it will, as always be on the back of Union, the story of the sport
Dogs Of War said | January 3rd 2010 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Whats wrong with that? It’s a smart method of expanding as the hardest part is getting something up and running.
rugbyfuture said | January 3rd 2010 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
yeh, you’re quite right, but it was more of an expansion on my comments on his comments that rugby league is apparently growing huge in china, still it would say something about how RU manages to expand worldwide but cant do anything in australia
Dogs Of War said | January 3rd 2010 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
I doubt there is even a League comp in China. Though I know of some who do play Union in China.
M1tch said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
China; if the RFL has any vision should be used as a exhibition location..play the World Club Challenge match, get oztag in schools and possible recruit the odd player, but I doubt it will be a pro comp area
oikee said | January 3rd 2010 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
The 2 sports have equal footing now, so as much as you say on the back of union, its a quote used by rugby league because the game was banned in so many countries for a long time. Also i mentioned economics because of one factor, it has everything to do with sport, sport is a huge bussiness, or haven’t you noticed,,,,,, i also read government reports, and when doing FTA agreements(free trade) they mention sport as a trade area. So go back to colledge, or where=ever you studied, probably a English private school with some of your comments, and dont try to preach to me something you know nothing about,.
I will again say that these 2 codes are widely watched throughout Asia, if they were not watched, like you think they are not, then the Chinese would have no bussiness building oval feilds. There interest in Rugby porbably lies with the Olympic 7’s, this does not in turn mean their interest lies with 15’s, they can easily take up rugby league as a prefered code, and they will.
rugbyfuture said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:57pm | Report comment
again, now even you’re admitting that RL isn’t taking off in china, its RU and theres a possibility that RL will hitch hike up.
don’t lecture me on what i know or don’t know, you don’t no anything about my education, nor my family background, an australian private school actually, and now i go to UWS in western sydney.
I know much about the chinese market, i visit china and the surrounding region regularly as my mother is Chinese, i even have a hong kong and a chinese national Rugby Jersey, as well as both the beijiing devils and shanghai hairy crabs rugby jerseys
THe chinese control much of their public interest in the means that they can, if they are going to take up a rugby code it will be one which they can show off to the world, as to grow propoganda for the country, that means RU is the Rugby code they will take up
and where do your qualifications lie for that matter, for you to be lecturing me about how i don’t know anything?
Jay said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
Out of all sports (apart from Soccer), Cricket will be the code to break into China. China has plans of becoming a test playing nation by 2020, and if they put their resources to it, Im sure they will achieve that quite easily.
M1tch said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
Totally agree, I read a very good article last year from a cricinfo writer who was over in China for a few months and he talked with alot of officals (expats and locals) who are working to get the game up and running.
With 20/20 now the new fad..and ICC knowing 20/20 is the way into new markets id expect some games to be played in China very soon
rugbyfuture said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
i heard they were working like rugby sevens to get cricket back into the olympics
RU and cricket share a very similar lineal history
M1tch said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:01pm | Report comment
20/20 in the Olympics, it could work, but hard to find oval grounds that would be suitable for cricket
rugbyfuture said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
they’d have to build em
Jay said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
Cricket and Rugby have a similar history, with a common pool of english colonies that play the game, but its interesting to note how their paths have changed.. Rugby has had more success in expanding into Europe – Ireland, Wales, Scotland, France and Italy play the game professionally, yet these countries dont play cricket at the same level depsite the proximity to England.
Likewise, rugby never really mananged to take off in Asia, even through there is the Calcutta Cup and is played widely in Sri Lanka.
M1tch said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
America has wanted their own sports..they turned rugby into american football and changed the rules. It took a long time for Soccer to become a mainstream sport and even still is seen as ‘that english game’
Bay35Pablo said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
Excellent, if we though game fixing, and the corruption from sports gamlbing, was bad coming out of India, wait until the Chinese get involved in cricket ….
Jay said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
Or chose to focus on the alternative that a country with a bigger population than India and a more advanced economy taking up cricket will double crickets tv rights and revenues.
If the IPL can fetch US$1bn for a 6 week tornament, imagine what will happen if the Chinese get involved?
The increased revenue can allow the ICC to seriously push into America, and if thats done, game, set, match!
M1tch said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
ICC is spending over $300 mil into the USA, this was in 2006 before 20/20 took the cricket world by storm
Jay said | January 4th 2010 @ 2:57pm | Report comment
the USA is the toughest sporting market to crack, but it is also the most elite. It would be interesting to see how cricket goes. I know the USA has one of the largest numbers of cricket participation of any country in the world (maing ex pats), but if you can get a structure with Twenty20 as a showcase for prime time television, the the colleges involved, and try and snare some baseballers to cricket, then it would be a great start. Having said that, $300m for very little results doesnt sound too promosining.
On the other note, I think this talk about RL cracking China is rubbish.. whoever mentioned it is a ghost of super league.
Crosscoder said | January 3rd 2010 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
RedB
Fickle !
It was you who stated”one year rl,next year who knows”.As has been pointed out by all and sundry,it hasn’t changed for yonks and/or since rl was a televised sport.Even during the SL war,when the game hit an all time low,with both a SL and a ARL comp.
The pay Tv ratings may well have been established first in the rl states re penetration.The rl ratings continue to grow,as has AFL.They are not standing still.
Remove rl :the NRL/Toyota Cup/S00/and Intnls from the equation and watch the churning of Pay subscriptions.
AFL when the Swans are playing on a saturday night is on live at prime time on FTA.They have a FTA game in addition nationwide including Sydney and Brisbane on a Saturday and Sunday afternoon.AFL has had more exposure in both those states ,than Tiger Wood’s mistresses.It has had more promotion than a Michael Jackson ‘this is it’ concert.
Good luck the AFL has the money to do this,but the code really has had every opportunity.
The rugby league mob would kill to have the finances available, to promote as the AFL does,in the non football states LOL as we often hear.
Redb said | January 3rd 2010 @ 8:33pm | Report comment
Sydney is fickle with its sporting flavour of the month, that is my point. A 20% increase in ratings in one year shows a certain bandwagon behavior no doubt helped by St George, Canterbury and Parra doing well. The Swans decline can also be traced to its success curve, finishing 11th doesn’t help.
I’m still waiting for the direct quote that the AFL is the dominant code in Sydney/NSW. There seems to be an often stated beleif from RL fans that the AFL or its fans was claiming this status.
If Melb Storm were 11th how do you think they would go?
Redb
Dogs Of War said | January 3rd 2010 @ 8:37pm | Report comment
I think they will go a lot better in the new stadium. I can actually see them rising to be one of the best supported teams in the NRL, at least top 5. It’s amazing what a decent stadium can do for a team, something the Swans have always had in their time in Sydney and something the Brisbane Bears didn’t have on the Gold Coast.
Redb said | January 3rd 2010 @ 8:40pm | Report comment
New stadium looks great.
Dogs Of War said | January 3rd 2010 @ 8:57pm | Report comment
Did you ever go to Olympic Park? I went in 2008 (and watched the Storm demolish the Dogs 48-0, very painful). The stadium had to be the worst in the NRL (though Brookvale is a very close second, with Shark park not far off either). Ovals are just terrible to watch League from as you are too far from the action, and lose that intensity that the big hits and slights of hand provide.
I will see how things go work wise, might find an excuse to head to Melbourne and checkout the new stadium in the flesh.
Redb said | January 3rd 2010 @ 9:08pm | Report comment
yes been to OP, pre Storm for a St George game and saw a RU test against Italy where Campese scored a try down the Grandstand wing (it was 10 deg in June). It was Ok, a bit old world suburban style which have their attractions at times compared to modern stadia which can be sterile.
I have no doubt Storms corwds will increase combo of new stadium and successful team but the actual experience you talk about does not explain the lack of crowds at Sydney stadiums like the SFS which are rectangular. My beleif is that rugby L & U is good for the first 10-15 rows in any stadium for the attributes you describe but beyond that your better off watching on TV.
re new rectangular stadium – the exterior roof design is something else, like a soccer ball dome effect. Brilliant.
Dogs Of War said | January 3rd 2010 @ 9:28pm | Report comment
You need to get an atmosphere going, which only a critical mass can provide. For most League teams that will be approx 20K fans at the stadium, though it can be less at certain stadiums due to how many that stadium actually holds.
For teams at ANZ, I think 30K is the magic number (25K is ok, but it really depends on where people are seated, need to be together, not too spread out).
Springs said | January 3rd 2010 @ 10:03pm | Report comment
I played on Olympic Park in a junior rep game. It was before a Melbourne-Manly game in 2003. Apart from the NRL markings, players and crowd the ground didn’t really have anything over the best grounds in Dubbo and Wagga.
Crosscoder said | January 3rd 2010 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
Craig Eyles
Surely you jest,the fact rugby league has more than one offering apart from the NRL ie the toyota Cup/SOo and Tests is all the more reason it is worth much more than currently being contracted.Rugby league was the sport chosen by Fox to push the pay TV banner.
The code is splitting up this “menu” and offering it to various media to maximise its income.Any business in its right mind would do the same.If another code happens to only have a limited choice of offerings that is their problem.
Scoop of the century”AFL has more viewers in Melbourne with a smaller population than Sydney has for the NRL with a larger population”
.Well I never would have believed such a thing :AFL in Vic=religion.check their media,check comments made by the general public and pollies etc.
Rugby league in Sydney very popular,union has their share of viewers and soccer their share and even AFL via the Swans for 25 years.Rugby league does not pretend to be an obsession(religion) with the Sydney sporting public,just the No1 winter viewing code in NSW.
Crosscoder said | January 3rd 2010 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
rugbyfuture
“and if indeed the Chinese took up rl ,it would be on the back of ru”.
Last I heard that is known as freedom of choice,you pick what you enjoy best.You have options,and dare I say many Chinese would be suited to rl ,from a stature point of view.
Then agan ru took on professionalism on the back of rl being pro.Alls fair in love and sport.
You also have options at the great academic bastions Oxford uni and Cambridge uni.You can play rugy union and many do and rugby league which a growing number do.Yet you can’t play rl at leading private schools in NSW and Qld.
Whilst ever ru is the sole rugby code at these establishments ,it will continue to carry the elitist tag,which in reality it is not.
if you want to encourage the masses,it must be a game perceived as being all encompassing not on a higher pedestal.
oikee said | January 3rd 2010 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
Which backs up my previous and 1st post i made on this blob. Rugby union to me is like BHP or RIO Tinto. They are large company’s but have China breathing down their necks to sell. They wont sell so China will just look elsewhere to do bussiness,….
Rugby league is ripe, ready and waiting for the Dragon to gobble it up and take it to the next level. Rugby union has no hope of doing this, its a pretectionest sport introduced for fat cats for their own gain. Why not talk frankly, after all, we now live in the New world power century.
I will make a point, if China buys Rugby league, America will quickly fall into line.
rugbyfuture said | January 4th 2010 @ 3:01pm | Report comment
again, think outside australia, RU is quite a normal persons sport
rugbyfuture said | January 3rd 2010 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
i agree with you, but by bringing league into the private schools it wouldnt change the perception, by bringing union to the public schools it will.
also, again, china, freedom of choice?
Sam el Perro said | January 3rd 2010 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
The perception will be slow changing due to the attitudes of that privately educated majority.
A friend of mine, who is from the private system (as I am for that matter: disclaimer!) recently commented of a high profile Rugby player who allegedly was involved in a burglary: “Well, what do you expect? He’s a Kiwi from down Logan way.” I don’t pretend that the following anecdote is in any way representative of all people from private schools, but it is certainly representative of many I know. When the chips are down, those from a different background are disowned.
rugbyfuture said | January 3rd 2010 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
still, cooper actually got a scholarship to one of the private schools up there though
Sam el Perro said | January 3rd 2010 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
True, he did. I was commenting more on the attitudes of the Rugby community at large, but fair point. As for the individual you mentioned, I am not in anyway confirming that I was talking about him. Allegedly etc, you understand.
Siva Samoa said | January 4th 2010 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
You obviously haven’t been to Brisbane then crosscoder . Many leading private schools have been playing league a couple of years ago. The interest for the game didn’t pick up and most private school rugby league teams fold. You get the odd team now and then but this kids are not interested.
Crosscoder said | January 3rd 2010 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
Rugbyfuture
RU had a profile in the past in state schools(of the cuff) such as Matraville with the Ellas,Sydney Boys high,Sydney Tech High,Fort Street,Nth sydney,Brisbane high.The fact the game was played in state schools did not then and has not now removed the perceived elitist tag .
It has perpetuated the feeling that high profile private schools who maintain a one code rugby policy, are by implication sporting elitist.
How could rugby union be called elitist ,if rl was also played at these “elite”schools.There would be no basis for that argument.
Having more state schools play union as a consequence be good for the code from a base point of view,but will do little to change the elitist tag ,with the current status quo.i have no problem with ru being played in all state schools.One assumes as a student from a free enterprise private school,you would therefore have no objection to rl in GPS and Assoc schools.
It is called egalitarianism.
An example of the attitude is non better exemplified,with a quote by John Eales,when asked about rl players, with words to the effect”they are a different breed or type”.Now we all know “nobody’ is perfect.
.And people wonder why!
Again China freedom of choice in a sport,not politics.
Master Blaster said | January 3rd 2010 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
Eales was asked in England whether the Wallabies would be hooking with the Kangaroos as both were on tour in the UK at the time. Eales said it wouldn’t happen as the league players belonged “to a different tribe”.
There are two professional rugby codes in existence. One wants the other dead.
RU is RL’s evil twin.
rugbyfuture said | January 3rd 2010 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
so you’re saying that despite all your banter about the demise of union, league doesnt want to kill off union? and never wanted to?
Dogs Of War said | January 3rd 2010 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
You can never worry about what the other side are doing, you need to focus on what you are doing, in time if you can continue to improve your game etc, then you will be the winner. The AFL pouring money into NSW and QLD will never deliver the results they think it will (killing the other sports). Just money down the drain really.
Anyway, League has never banned Union players from playing the game once they had tried the other code, they never stole their grounds, or outlawed the game from being played abusing their power in the government.
rugbyfuture said | January 3rd 2010 @ 4:53pm | Report comment
again, either tolk about the game locally or internationally, seperately, because if we talk nationally, the whole argument that union is only for the upper class doesnt apply to france, south africa, new zealand and many of the other countries.
league has however stolen many juniors, stolen the name and the players were breaking the rules, if by a job, your not allowed to do a night job for instance and its within your employment rules, and you go off and get one anyway, you would get fired, would you not?
however from what ive heard of this vichy stuff it was a bit suss
Dogs Of War said | January 3rd 2010 @ 5:18pm | Report comment
Stolen? You mean offered someone money to play League, and those people chose to take the money. Oh the horror!!! People want to do the best thing for themselves? No different to when SBW and Gasnier ran over to Union when the chequebook was opened (that’s international, I know you don’t like that, so instead I offer Sailor, Rogers and Tuquiri!)
What this section is about I have no idea “stolen the name and the players were breaking the rules, if by a job, your not allowed to do a night job for instance and its within your employment rules, and you go off and get one anyway, you would get fired, would you not?”
I suspect it’s talking about League paying their players for time they missed work (which ironically if Union has actually comprised would have never seen League created).
And if you want to know about Vichy, at least go and get the book on the subject. Mike Rylance : The Forbidden Game.
A quick review of the book, with a quote extracted to assist you…
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/badge-of-dishonour-french-rugbys-shameful-secret-401557.html
A report was written for Vichy on the “state of rugby in France” within weeks of the German victory over the French. It said that rugby league, because it was “professional” and therefore contrary to proper sporting values, had contributed to the lack of “moral education” that allowed the German armies to sweep French troops aside.
The report was written by Dr Paul Voivenel, honorary president of the FFR, the ruler of French rugby union, who was a close associate of senior figures in the Vichy regime. Rylance concludes that rugby union cynically used the cover of military defeat, and alleged national “renewal” to assassinate league.
Exactly the same conclusion was reached in 2002 by a French government inquiry into sport during the Vichy period. The report concluded: “The action against rugby league was the result of steps taken by the French rugby union federation which saw an opportunity to get rid of a dangerous rival.”
jake said | January 3rd 2010 @ 5:23pm | Report comment
A bit suss? are you implying that the Vichy ban did not happen??? it is part of history just like the invention of the wheel, the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan and 911!!!!
http://www.sportingo.com/rugby-league/a11438_year-war-how-french-rugby-league-survived-conquer
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/badge-of-dishonour-french-rugbys-shameful-secret-401557.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/2307043.stm
rugbyfuture said | January 3rd 2010 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
no im agreeing with you that the stuff they did do was a bit suss
Street Cred said | January 3rd 2010 @ 6:09pm | Report comment
RF you are the most clumsy poster on the Roar. I’ve lost count of the times you have posted something, been rebuked or challenged by someone else, and then said you meant something entirely different.