Rebels should look for diversity with signings
Roar Guru
By rugbyfuture, 8 Jan 2010 rugbyfuture is a Roar Guru
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Many have stirred over the potential signings of the Victorian Rebels rugby team. This is not a danger, nor is it to the detriment of youth within Australia. This could be, with careful balance, a great marketing opportunity.
An opening to international players could mean that the Rebels become the diversity team. Rather than simply look at saffas, kiwis and islanders, look beyond the Tri-Nation’s borders to Japan, greater Africa and the rest of the developing rugby world.
Surely, some of those who play international for a mid-ranked team will be at some sort of level close to Super 15. Ensuring that some of these players make it into the team could mean a knock on effect to attract those of different cultural and racial backgrounds into the game in Australia.
After all, Australia is the nation of nations.
Look at a school rugby game in Australia and you are only likely to see whites, islanders and maybe the occasional Aboriginal. I’m part Chinese myself, but didn’t see any other Asians playing rugby in my schooling career.
This may spell that rugby may have itself a part in racial stereotyping it needs to defeat. The Rebels can spell an end to this.
Some here will argue that the incentives offered in some Asian countries and African nations and developing European nations may have already been tagged by the more professional and higher earning rugby places.
Some, though, pass through the filter and others may be attracted to the lifestyle opportunities within Australia, the great and lucky country.
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ohtani's jacket said | January 8th 2010 @ 2:43am | Report comment
I don’t know why you’d expect a professional rugby team (and the first to be backed by private equity) to do such a thing, but let me clear something up for you.
Very few players in Japan are contracted to the JRFU. The overwhelming majority of them are company employees. A few of them have played in the NPC in recent seasons and joined the Top League late, but none of the clubs would allow a top player to miss the Microsoft Cup or the National Championships. That’s why Tony Brown used to join the Super 14 in round six when he played in both competitions. The best players in Japan are in the Japan national squad and they have the Asian Five Nations in April/May leading into the Pacific Nations Cup in June/July.
There’s one been one or two Japanese players who’ve ever played professional rugby outside of Japan. Most players do not wish to leave the companies that employ them.
Sam Taulelei said | January 8th 2010 @ 7:06am | Report comment
Yep and Melbourne will have little choice in ‘diversity’ when it comes to signing players as they are so late in getting started looking for a coach and players, a season out from their debut that most of the top players are already locked into contracts or will have them renegotiated to see off the Melbourne scouts. It’s a pity the ARU didn’t also provide salary cap concessions for Melbourne to assist in player contracts.
rugbyfuture said | January 8th 2010 @ 9:41am | Report comment
Harold Mitchell will definitely work around with third party agreements, he does specialise in advertising and i can see him using his word for it.
Dogs Of War said | January 8th 2010 @ 6:57pm | Report comment
That’s the same Harold Mitchell who really helped Horse Racing via TVN? Although he is an experienced operator, I wouldn’t look to him as a miracle worker, he had the perfect product, and still managed to screw it up.
rugbyfuture said | January 10th 2010 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
i agree
sheek said | January 10th 2010 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
RF,
I’m opposed to diversity. The Rebels is an Australian outfit & consequently ought to have a majority of Australian nationality players.
I concede the team will require about 10 non-Australians on its roster, but no more. The idea floated by some that we should make the Rebels some kind of United Nations team makes no sense to me at all.
And I suspect, it will make even less sense to the Victorian sporting community, who are precisely the people rugby is trying to attract. Where’s the attraction of Melbournians following a team with few or nil Aussies in it?
rugbyfuture said | January 10th 2010 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
i wasn’t saying that they should compromise the rules, rather that the ten places for international places should go to those who can attract a wider variety of interest if of course these people of different ethnicities are of equal skill level to those who arent, its a little racist i think, but to bring more ethnicities into a pro game would attract, possibly more ethnicities in the audience.
Gatesy said | January 11th 2010 @ 5:51pm | Report comment
Now here’s a thing – picture this – Melbourne is the largest Greek community outside of Athens (or something like that) – so let’s imagine we could turn the buggers into rugger buggers! How good would that be – imagine where it could lead – this multicultural sporting mecca, capital of the world – the mind boggles – Gordon Bray could have a field day and imagine the cliches that Marto and Kearnsey could dream up.
Come on , guys, let’s get real – the idea of having a 5th franchise in Australia is so that the Wallabies can be 5/4ths as strong as they were before. Let’s not get carried away, here.
Foxy Loxy said | January 8th 2010 @ 7:19am | Report comment
Oh dear. Another day, another RF dream piece. Here’s a thought — how about the ARU and the Rebels build a competitive RU team, and leave the cultural diversity work to the politicians and social planners.
rugbyfuture said | January 8th 2010 @ 9:47am | Report comment
i never said to have it to the detriment of building a good team, in fact i specifically said it should be done with a balance. the marketing and implementation in rugby is important, as it is in the afl and RL. the afl were boasting a couple of weeks ago at their signings of asians and africans and they should, having a player who someone can identify with from a varying cultural background is a great boost for any game, as it means people start to see it as part of developing and integrating into australian culture.
Foxy Loxy said | January 8th 2010 @ 9:57am | Report comment
++the marketing and implementation in rugby is important.++ Interesting. I’ve not seen those skills used in RU. I prefer RU players be able to run, pass, kick etc. you know.
rugbyfuture said | January 8th 2010 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
as i said, they must be able to play, but Rugby is a proffesional game now so marketing is a great part of that. your comments seem to be scewed towards league so i wouldn’t expect you to recognise that union needs this. as you see in my posts that im obviously hardly skewed towards rugby.
Dogs Of War said | January 8th 2010 @ 6:59pm | Report comment
The best marketing is winning. Given the lack of free to air TV for Union, is going to be hard to get people to understand the diversity on the field if they go down that path.
rugbyfuture said | January 8th 2010 @ 7:28pm | Report comment
good point, im also sure though that going at the PI’s would be avoided if the IRB ask for it with the pacific island development program
Bay35Pablo said | January 8th 2010 @ 7:38am | Report comment
They should look at some USA players. Todd Clever has done pretty well in SAF in the Super14.
Wavell Wakefield said | January 8th 2010 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Agreed. Clever’s an excellent player. I remember watching him play in an old Churchill Cup fixture when he used to be a barman. You wouldn’t have told him he’d got the order wrong! He deserves better than the current team he’s with.
Paul J said | January 8th 2010 @ 8:17am | Report comment
The inclusion of the Force diluted the Aussie Super teams talent pool somewhat so I think it’s fair to assume that the inclusion of the Rebels will do this even more, hence the allowances for so many foreign players into the Rebels squad.
The problems for the Rebels may be:
1. Can they afford to get enough quality players from Europe (can any Super team considering exchange rates)?
2. Can they find enough players from Asia/Africa etc who are good enough for the Super comp?
3. If they have to get some Aussies from other Super teams will this make it harder for Aussie Super teams to be competitive in the immediate future.
4. Most importantly, if the Rebels first few seasons are rather lean, and you can not blame a new side if this happens, how patient will the private owners be, and how much cash will the ARU be willing to give the Rebels until they are really up and running?
Bay35Pablo said | January 8th 2010 @ 4:58pm | Report comment
Paul J,
In the medium to long run the extra side will add depth to the number of professional players in Australia, as did the Force. Look at all the blokes that got a chance thanks to the Force – Brown, Pocock, O’Connor, etc. The step up from amateir ranks will take some time for the promoted club land players, but just like any similar player coming into an existing side, if they have a core of experienced players and the right structurees in place that will come.
For the proposed problems:
1. They have a salary cap or pool like any other Aussie team. Private euqity isn’t a model to go nuts like Chelsea, it is for the basic funding of a team to be more from private sorces than the ARU.grants (in addition to the TV revenue cut).
2. Similar question for Aussie players? the fact that the Tahs have grabbed players like van Rooidt and Anensi from SAF and NZ suggests there are plenty of fringe players looking for the chance to shine. In much the same way, an existing side runs a risk of them not shining, the Rebels just may have more of them.
3. Yes and no. If they recruit a few top players and a few bench and fringe players, plus some Aussies from Europe and 10 foregigners, then the weakening of the Aussie teams may not be too bad as the others will still have most of their core players plus have some fringe and bench players step up.. The depth at the other sides will suffer though, which is what we saw after the Force when injuries occurred and the 2nd string fringe players hadn’t had the experience.
4. Any private owners would be fools to expect either guaranteed success or to buy success. They have to be in it for at least 5 years. The ARU will be paying them whatever they agreed as their TV revenue cut. The rest is their issue. If they were to fall over, then the ARU would presumably propr it up in while looking for another owner (like the FFA has done with some HAL clubs).
Paul J said | January 9th 2010 @ 8:49am | Report comment
Bay35Pablo
“In the medium to long run the extra side will add depth to the number of professional players in Australia”
I agree and that’s why I think having the Rebels is great for Aussie Rugby – in the long term.
The next 5 years will see our Super teams struggle as the talent has to be diluted even more initially. Some don’t agree with this suggestion but I don’t see how?
This is not well timed with Rugby not exactly enjoying a golden age in Australia at the moment; fans will have to be patient.
Bay35Pablo said | January 10th 2010 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
Paul J, a lot of people have pointed to the Reds as the proof the Force diluted our depth. I don’t agree. I think bad administration and coaching was more responsible. The Force was just an easy excuse, and for some talking heads helped “prove” what they were saying before. The Tahs made the 2005 and 2008 finals during that period. Yes the Brummies didn’t perform in that period either but they had some decent cattle, and I really think Fisher wasn’t getting the most out of them.
If the blazers and coaches can do their jobs over the next 5 years, I don’t think we will be as bad Super wise than the last 5 years.
Jay said | January 8th 2010 @ 8:32am | Report comment
There are only 10 spots for international players – they must go for quality, which is generally in the top tier nations.. Given the limited spots, it would be a gamble, especially with a new franchise, to select players from emerging nations.
Bay35Pablo said | January 8th 2010 @ 5:08pm | Report comment
You can’t tell me they couldn’t find at least 2-3 bench or fringe NZ and SAF players (who by definition are at the minimum required for S14 level), 2-3 “marquee” players (who must S15 or international level you would assume), plus 2-3 Pacific Islanders that haven’t gone to Europe and 2-3 other nationalities (European, Argies, USA/Canada, etc who couldn’t play as well as a good club land or NPC player and make the step up? There’s your 10.
Assume they recruit 2 squad or bench players from every other Aussie team, plus 6-8 players from the Academy sides and the Sydney & Brisbane clubs, and 3-4 Aussies back from Europe – that’s about the 20 Aussie players needed.
It won’t be easy, but they can do it. Keep in mind the Brummies had a rough first few years, and I think there is arguably more talent (numbers wise given the foreign options) around than back then.
ohtani's jacket said | January 8th 2010 @ 11:50am | Report comment
This Melbourne side has to be careful about ANYONE they sign. One marquee player is not going to make a difference and a bad signing will be an albratross around the club’s neck.
soapit said | January 8th 2010 @ 11:52am | Report comment
they’re not going to be able to afford 10 top players from top tier nations. maybe 3 or 4 marquee signings and then the rest will have to be made up from other countries.
rugbyfuture said | January 8th 2010 @ 4:17pm | Report comment
and obviously you are much fitter than any proffesional RU players? coz you’re the one criticising them.
Bay35Pablo said | January 8th 2010 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
Low blow RF, low blow ….
(dives under nearest table as saloon erupts in code war brawl)
Foxy Loxy said | January 8th 2010 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
Doesn’t say much for the credibility of the Roar that a regular article contributor can freely make such unprofessional and uncouth comments (these aren’t his first, though it is his worst) on a publicly available forum open to all ages, let alone that he has slandered a known and identifiable group of individuals.
rugbyfuture said | January 8th 2010 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
as barry Q and many other leagueys has done to union players, i was simply responding to how he views union players in exactly the same vien. and as i stated, if weare looking at unreal generalisations.
Foxy Loxy said | January 8th 2010 @ 5:47pm | Report comment
No mate. In this instance, you’re in a (low) class of your own.
rugbyfuture said | January 8th 2010 @ 6:31pm | Report comment
does that mean you’re incredibly obese?
Foxy Loxy said | January 8th 2010 @ 6:36pm | Report comment
All your posts do is succeed in embarrassing yourself and the Roar.
rugbyfuture said | January 8th 2010 @ 7:31pm | Report comment
stop hiding behind your thin viel of perfection and ethicacy, if indeed i was an embarrassment one would say that the moderators would have a word to me, however they probably would realise the double standard in speaking to me about a vague generalisation, which was pointed out to by its author and not speaking to those who the reaction was towards.
if one takes offence, then one should not offend
Foxy Loxy said | January 9th 2010 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
Pleased to see the Roar moderators have maintained some semblance of decency on the Roar by deleting your obnoxious post.
rugbyfuture said | January 9th 2010 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
and barry q’s may i add
Bay35Pablo said | January 10th 2010 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Foxy, click on “Report Comment” then.
I don’t agree with some of what RF says, but it is just as open for you to write articles as him. The Roar will only print the ones they want to, so if they are decent they will get on and everyone can comment. That’s what makes the Roar what it is.