How strong is Sydney’s sporting pulse?

Roar Rookie

By Mad Mex, 21 Jan 2010 Mad Mex is a Roar Rookie

Tagged:: AFL, Geelong Cats, NRL, Rugby League, Rugby Union

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I preface what I am about to write with the fact that I am a Victorian who has resided in Sydney for the last four years.

Brought up on a staple diet of Aussie rules in the Winter and Aussie Rules off season developments in the summer, with a sizable sprinkling of the cricket, Australian Open, and the Spring Racing Carnival thrown in, I considered myself extremely fortunate.

Moving to Sydney resulted in me sacrificing my greatest love – going to see the blue and white hoops of the Geelong football club running around each weekend.

I downsized my sizable membership package (about $300) and went for the economical (and sensible according to my Sydney born wife) alternative – the interstate membership (~$110) and ensured I had Foxtel to get my AFL fix.

In the interim, I also learned that there was a distinct difference to the rugby codes that we Victorians referred to collectively as rugby.

As I had made the move to Sydney, I thought it apt that I attempt to immerse myself in the local sporting culture and support these two “foreign” games.

I was, however, shocked to tune into Friday night footy (league) and see the stadiums half empty (or in the case of ANZ stadium), 1/6 full.

I was also horrified to learn that membership numbers for NRL clubs were abysmally low compared to AFL clubs. Upon asking why this was so, a friend of mine (whom is the Membership Manager of an NRL club and a fellow Mexican) informed me that league is a better game for TV and that others had informed him that there was much more to do in Sydney than attend football matches on the weekend.

As time passed, I noticed rugby crowds for the Waratahs were falling, after apparently having been strong previously. I was informed that the game was being over officialed and this was leading to “boring” rugby and fans were voting with their feet.

I am not looking to turn this piece into a code war. I am merely trying to better understand what indeed the sporting psyche of Sydney is.

I enjoy both league (particularly SOO) and union, and am still, after four years, baffled as to why attendances and membership figures are as small as they are.

Through my Sydney based friends and work colleagues, I understand that these small figures are not due to a lack of interest or support of these codes.

Indeed TV ratings, particularly of league, are incredibly strong. But I just don’t fully understand as to why people won’t attend a game or sign up as a member of their team.

Is it the geography of the sporting precinct? Is it financial? Or is it because Sydneysiders have more to do with their weekends than attend sporting fixtures?

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The Crowd Says (90) | Page 1 of Comments

TammyS said | January 21st 2010 @ 7:23am | Report comment

I think its got to do with how crap the traffic and our public transport is. Going to games just isn’t as convenient as it is in other cities.

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- Jay said | January 21st 2010 @ 8:02am | Report comment
  
  Agree, this is not helped by the fact that we have had the most incompetent state government for how long.
  
  Its too hard to get to stadiums all over sydney and the NRL has never really had a membership based culture like the AFL. Its only really starting now becuase they need to find a new revenue stream.
  
  Even the state of origins sometimes dont sell out, if they do, it will take a hell of a lot longer than if it were in Victoria or Queensland.
  
  As you pointed out – its not just league. Waratahs, Sydney FC and to a certain extent the swans all do poorly when compared to their interstate rivals. Even in the cricket, NSW blues big bash turnouts were less than Vic’s. New Years test gets less people than the boxing day test. Sydney is sydney… we’re probably too busy to care.
  
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  - Timmuh said | January 21st 2010 @ 5:24pm | Report comment
    
    “Agree, this is not helped by the fact that we have had the most incompetent state government for how long. ”
    Not even close. Tasmania still qualifies as a state, though whether it could maintain that status did come into question at times in the 90s, and has had corruption and cronyism beyond Bjelke-Peteresen’s wildest dreams for at least 30 years and incompetence that would make both the government and opposition in NSW cringe with horror. NSW can’t even compete in the incompetence stakes.
    
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- Ken said | January 21st 2010 @ 8:44am | Report comment
  
  Yep, that’s more succinct version of what I wrote actually… between Sydney’s sprawling size (50% bigger than Melbourne) and short-sighted leaders who refuse to commit to any transport projects (who keeps voting these losers back in!) it’s just a pain to get to many of the grounds
  
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- Sam el Perro said | January 21st 2010 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
  
  Making a comment, even tongue in cheek (I hope), that denigrates somebody based on the ancestry and their gender is hardly appropriate for The Roar, is it? Politics is one thing, even on a sports opinion website. That comment was another thing entirely, and not really the sort of thing that I come to this site for.
  
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  - rugbyfuture said | January 21st 2010 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
    
    not commenting on her gender, commenting on the fact that shes a yank whos somehow controlling our biggest state yes, but mainly focusing on the topic at hand that the public transport is stupid and the contemporary plan which came out today. she doesnt have yankee ancestry she is a yank.
    
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    - Sam el Perro said | January 21st 2010 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
      
      “Bitch” certainly is a gender specific word. And judgments on a country of origin (if you prefer that as a designation to ancestry) do not add anything to the discussion. She has been naturalised. That means she is an Australian. End of story.
      
      Reply
    - TammyS said | January 21st 2010 @ 5:40pm | Report comment
      
      her mothers an aussie
      
      Reply
Ken said | January 21st 2010 @ 7:25am | Report comment

OK, you’re going to be running a fine line with this one descending into a code war but sounds like you’re genuinely trying to work this one out.

It’s a tough question – Sydney crowds are a bit of an anomaly, as you’ve noted it’s not a simple case of disinterest. People are passionate about their sport but memberships and getting to every game is just not the priority. I can’t provide an exact answer but might be able to help illustrate the problem with my own experience. I’m a huge St George fan (never had a chance, at 4 I convinced Dad to paint a huge Dragon on the wall of my red and white bedroom), however I’ve never really lived close to the area. Actually most of my life I’ve lived on the other side of the city, an hour’s drive away from Kogarah stadium which is still a relatively small arena in a suburban area with terrible parking. In 08 when the stadium was being reconfigured the Dragons played their Sydney games at ANZ (about 20 mins away from me with great transport facilities) – I went to every game, most years at Kogarah though I only make it to a couple (+ 1-2 at the Gong). Of course the crowds at ANZ weren’t much better than what they get at Kogarah because a lot of the people who do live in the area thought it was an insult and wouldn’t go there.

We love the atmosphere of our small surburban grounds but truthfully they can be painful to live with when you consider outdaded facililties, poor transport/parking and distance (if you don’t live in the immediate area). That the game translates well to television surely assists our apathy. I’m sure that’s not the whole answer to your question but maybe helps.

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- Mad Mex said | January 21st 2010 @ 11:59am | Report comment
  
  Ken, I am sincerely trying to understand the sporting psyche of Sydney. It is not a code war or a cross city war at all. Suburban grounds are close to my heart – even though Melbourne has some excellent stadiums ala TD and MCG, there is nothing quite like standing in the outer behind the goals down at Skilled tadium in Geelong, nursing a cup of CUBs finest and devouring a pie. But as you rightky point out, in Sydney they are littered from north to south so it isn’t easy for fans. But really, is this one of the answers to the question I’m posing? If the want and passion is there, wouldn’t you get to the game regardless?
  
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  - Ken said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
    
    “If the want and passion is there, wouldn’t you get to the game regardless?”
    
    When you phrase it like that it sounds cold but often the answer is no. Don’t get me wrong, even for all the crap parking, toilet and food lines and long drives though the suburbs, I love old Kogarah and enjoy it when I get out there. But in this time-poor era, and especially with a (very) young family, there’s just always more things to do on the weekend than can be done, and taking 3/4′s of the day to go out to the footy when it’s on TV is a tough call.
    
    My most common routine on game day is a bbq with family and/or friends (Dad’s place tends to win often, he has biggest TV, best bar and a 3/4 size snooker table). We’re close to home, parkings easy, food and drinks are better and don’t cost a fortune…
    
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Brett McKay said | January 21st 2010 @ 8:37am | Report comment

Mex, I must agree with the sentiment – best of luck with this not degenerating. But perhaps this is the perfect opportunity for people to exercise restraint too…

I live in neither Sydney or Melbourne, but have watched a good deal of sport in both. From an outsider’s perpective, it’s a simple case of logistics.

In Melbourne, there is almost guaranteed to be some kind of major sporting code on in the city every weekend, either at the Dome, the MCG, or soon, the new rectangular stadium. So three major sporting venues within what, 5kms of each other, and all easily acessible from all corners of the metro area. It’s quite possible to watch footy at he MCG in the afternoon, and then head over to the Dome in the evening.

In Sydney, the SCG and SFS are east of the City, Homebush is well west. But then you’ve also got “suburban” grounds dotted all over the place too from Brookvale in the north-east, to Penrith in the west, Campbelltown in the south-west, and Kogarah and Cronulla in the south-east. Doing the SCG/SFS in the afternoon and then going to Homebush (or one of the other grounds) in the evening is something even Toll-IPEC would find difficult. It’s just not that easy. So people will do one or the other.

Again from an outsider’s perspective, if some mates and I are consdiering a sport weekend interstate, Melbourne is the better option, because it’s just so much easier to get around…

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- Mad Mex said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
  
  Brett, I agree, Melbourne has a much more centralised sporting precinct and thus is easier to reach. However, as much as ANZ is lambasted, it is still within close proximity to a train line. Again, if the want and need is there, you can get there. You can get 80k to Homebush for SOO, why not for regular club games. If league and union simply are better products for tv (as Dogs below attests) why soesn’t everyone juststay home from SOO also and watch it on the tube?
  
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  - Anthony said | January 21st 2010 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
    
    Go back 30 years – before VFL clubs played at central locations. Melbourne crowds have always been supreme compared with Sydney. But its not just Melbourne. 40 years ago Adelaide crowds were equal to & often better than Sydney League crowds. lt is just a different culture in Aussie Rules: We value being members of our clubs & don’t just attend games – tho we do that in huge numbers. It’s part of our Aussie cultyre & heritage. Rugby league isn’t in the same paddock.
    
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    - jimbo said | January 21st 2010 @ 10:24pm | Report comment
      
      The culture and heritage of Rugby League in Sydney and Brisbane is very real.
      
      AFL means very little to most people who grew up in Sydney.
      
      Reply
    - Ken said | January 22nd 2010 @ 7:56am | Report comment
      
      AFL has no more to do with Aussie culture and heritage than rugby league does. Just depends on which part of the country you are from.
      
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- Brett McKay said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
  
  Mex, it really is one of life’s mysteries. I’d agree with you, if the passion is desire to watch your team is there, then surely you’d just go. But I also think it comes down to what people are used to. As has been said here by plenty, Melbourne people follow sport; two ants racing on the sidewalk would draw a crowd down there. It’s just something they’re used to doing.
  
  But Sydney’s different. Maybe when the cost of “just going” somewhere to watch your team becomes so high before you even get to the ground, the passion and desire can be nullified. And when that happens, it’s easy to see how pay-TV or going to the pub with mates becomes a better alternative.
  
  Sydney’s also well known as a pretty tough sporting market too, so you might be faced with tough decision on which game to see, though largely conflicts are avoided where ever possible. But it’s basically the only city in the country where major sport isn’t condensed into just a couple of venues..
  
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  - Mad Mex said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
    
    Yes Brett, Sydney is indeed Australia’s toughest sporting market. Hands down.
    Perhaps it is the history of the two cities and that Melburnians, as Redb highlighted previously, are ingrained in attending sporting fixtures. Certainly the two ants on a sidewalk / fly’s up a wall etc are analogies that are commonly used to describe Mexicans.
    
    I guess the cost you are describing is the economic cost re transport etc. Or does it also encompass the opportunity cost of doing other more preferable alternatives? I’d have thought though, a decent session at the pub can become quite expensive
    
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Dogs Of War said | January 21st 2010 @ 8:51am | Report comment

I think you also miss that Rugby League (and other sports in NSW/QLD), have never really had a membership culture. It’s something NRL clubs are trying now, and really it will take 10-20 years to see the fruits of their labour (it is going up, but off a small base it’s not that much to crow about, when clubs have 25K membership bases, I think that will be more than enough for clubs).

As well, AFL is best viewed at the ground, where League and Union both have better TV products, with being at the game providing another a different perspective. Sometimes being at the game you end up finding yourself just watching the big screens, and realise you could have done that at home.

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Central North said | January 21st 2010 @ 9:04am | Report comment

I think all of the above are on the right track Mex. I’m sure it sounds like a bit of a cop out to a died in the wool, support your team to the death by going to games Victorian, but the difficulty of the logistics out wieghs the strength of the support for many Sydney fans.

l compare the Sydney landscape today (particularly in the NRL) to being like Melbourne in the 1980′s, when you had games at Windy Hill, Waverley, Princes Park etc etc. While I don’t know if there was an uproar (and I’d be really interested to hear your opinion on it) from the fans when AFL games were moved progressively to the MCG and then the Dome, doing so has allowed for more people to attend games each and every weekend and to their credit Melburnians have responded. It’s easy to jump on a train (and I’ve always found Melbourne’s trains to be vastly superior to Sydney’s) and get to the ‘G or the Dome no matter where in the Melbourne metropolis you hail from.

In Sydney, we are still stuck in the suburban grounds mentality. It’s a mentality the fans fiercely protect (moving games to ANZ Stadium anyone?), while the NRL even advocated for suburban grounds when it stood up for the Dragons right to play their first final at Kogarah in 2009 despite thousands missing out on the opportunity to watch the game live. Some suburban grounds are pretty good – Parramatta Stadium is one example, while CUA at Penrith is great since it was re-done – while others are far from. Campbelltown needs a new western stand desperately, Brookvale is a disgrace and Kogarah, despite the work done, isn’t much better.

Add to this the useless layout of Sydney’s train system. For example, a Dragons fan from Kogarah has to go almost all the way into the city, change at Redfern, then catch a train just as far out to Parramatta to get to round one this season – seriously it’s way easier and quicker to drive. So you can see why someone will choose to stay home at watch it on the box rather than go to the hassle of getting across town.

The SFS is a great venue. But it’s not handy for people from the west, north or south. Parking is hard, the harbour tunnel’s a bitch on game day, and it’s a 25 minute walk from Central station. ANZ is OK, and near to the geographic heart of the city, but as many have noted it’s too big for the vast majority of club matches. And you can’t always get a train there, despite a having its own dedicated station. Meantime the State Government is flip flopping by the day on it’s much talked about metro rail projects. And I’ve never seen any mention anywhere of the prospect of a new inner city stadium a la Melbourne.

Are Melburnians more committed to their teams than Sydney people? Almost certainly. But i’d argue that state government and infrastructure planning across all sectors has made it much easier to support your team in Melbourne than what it is in Sydney.

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- MV Dave said | January 21st 2010 @ 9:39am | Report comment
  
  Excellent post Central North particularly paras 2 & 3. l used to go to Windy Hill to watch Essendon in the 70s and some games in the 80s and the ground was poor in terms of facilities and comforts but great for atmosphere. Crowds were smaller but no less passionate or vocal (from memory the league used to ave around 20,000 overall vs 37,000 these days). Very little had been spent on grounds in Melbourne to keep them up to date and the league was going broke in the late 80s so really they had no choice but to move clubs to the MCG, then Docklands. The main complaints l remember were from those that lived in the surrounds of MCG, Princess Park who didnt want more games at those grounds to spoil their peace and tranquillity…Redb or MC could probably tell you more.
  It is a shame in one sense that the league lost that suburban aspect but with the professionalism of the game there was no choice.
  Certainly the point about public transport and location of venues is very relevant. It was and still is so easy to get to grounds by PT and most now have good car parks any way. The only ground that was difficult to get to by PT was Waverley Park and people used to complain heaps about that. Its attendances were much lower than the MCG for example largely because of this point IMO.
  Having been to Sydenee often, several times for sporting purposes, l concur that the layout of the city and sporting arenas is a nightmare…Melbournes main facilities are all within 5 minute walk of the city now…and the city is very easily accessed.
  
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- Redb said | January 21st 2010 @ 9:58am | Report comment
  
  I could I say I miss the suburban grounds but the truth is I dont.
  
  Essendon moved to the MCG early 1990s and it never looked back. It was only enticed to Etihad on a very good deal. Come July that’s good thing with the roof.
  
  The advantage of the inner city stadium is the parking options. I always drive, you can park near Etihad although apartment buildings are soaking up the car parking and the MCG has plenty of options, including parking in the CBD itself and walking 10 minutes. I park at work on St Kilda Rd about 15-20 min walk, means I dont have to put up with traffic getting out of the surrounds of the MCG carpark or CBD.
  
  The point being that inner city stadiums apart from the central train network usually have plenty of parking options. We also have trams in Melb.
  
  The transport hassle (public, car parking,etc) is no doubt an impediment to regular sport attendance.
  
  Redb
  
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  - Central North said | January 21st 2010 @ 10:30am | Report comment
    
    Thank you for the perspective gentlemen.
    
    Don’t get me wrong, I love suburban grounds. But the truth of the matter in Sydney is they do not regularly sell out throughout the season, even when you take their comparatively low capacities. So, at the risk of sounding like LeftArmSpinner – why move to larger grounds when Sydney won’t get off its collective backsides enough to fill smaller ones?
    
    In Melbourne, with its supporter culture, moving to larger grounds was a good move because the support was there to fill them, thus justifying the move. In League, in Sydney at least, it has the opposite effect – alienating the rusted on supporters – and will probably continue to do so in the future. That is, unless this membership push gets 10 years of good traction and all clubs grow their core member base to the point where suburban grounds are a hindrance rather than a help.
    
    I’ve got a mate who has a fair bit to do with the Parramatta Eels. When they’re winning they command average crowd around the high teens-20-thousand mark, as was seen in the latter part of 2009. But when they’re not winning, or in mid winter (or both, as has been the case of late), crowd fall right away to th 10-11-12 thousand mark, if they’re lucky.
    
    The Eels play 2 games a year at ANZ Stadium, against the two other home teams there (Souths and the Bulldogs). There was a hell of a ruckus from fans who weren’t prepared to drive 15 minutes (Parra and Homebush are basically next door neighbours) to go to the ground. And yet, despite healthy crowds in the 20,000′s or approaching them over the past two seasons, the Club administration is on record saying that they’ll move all home games back to Parra Stadium ASAP.
    
    Sadly, so long as we have fair weather fans and inward looking administrators, I can’t see Sydney going anywhere close to emulating the sporting culture of Melbourne..
    
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  - Mad Mex said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
    
    Cetral North, I think MV Dave and Redb succinctly sum up the feel amongst fans when the league announced that most Victorian games would be shifted to the MCG and Docklands. I do however disagree slightly with Redb. As mentioned previously, nothing beats watching the cats at Skilled with your mates and a few bevvies. That tribal aspect is something that reasonates very strongly with Geelong fans and provides a definite home ground advantage. Geelong haven’t lost a game at home for two years now (read into that what you will).
    
    Re Kogarah, I really admired St George for playing their semi final their against Parra. Sure, some people missed out – but a packed house and a great game to boot was a great advertisement for League. The problem of course is when you do have a lock out due to capacity – but this seems to be a rarity with League, particulalry in the regular season.
    
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    - Redb said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
      
      MM,
      
      Agreed there is stronger tribal element at a smaller ground with one set of fans dominating.
      
      Working in the city, MCG and Etihad are way too convenient for me than getting out to Windy Hill. Plus it’s simply too small for a club like Essendon and its large supporter base and tradtional blockbusters against Coll and Carl,etc.
      
      Off topic: If you want tribal, a comeback win (ANZAC Day) or Round 22 after Lloyd ironed out the Hawk’s Sewell – 80,000+ fans went feral on both sides. Can’t beat the G when she cranks up for atmosphere.
      
      Cat’s dominance extends beyond Kardiina Park.
      
      Redb
      
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      - Mad Mex said | January 21st 2010 @ 11:05pm | Report comment
        
        As a cats man Redb, you would no doubt understand the enjoyment I took fro¤ the bombers ending the hawks season!
        
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        Redb said | January 22nd 2010 @ 8:02am | Report comment
        
        Mad,
        
        Was at the R22 Hawks game, happy to help the Cats over dem Hawks – our next clash will be massive, can’t wait til this season begins. Hate ‘em almost as much as Carlton (almost)
        
        Redb
    - TammyS said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
      
      the dragons could’ve gotten 40k+ had they moved it to a bigger stadium, it was a selfish decision
      
      Reply
    - Central North said | January 21st 2010 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
      
      For Geelong, see Penrith, Newcastle, St George-Illawarra (the Gong end at least).. They’d all retain (and expand) their traditional home grounds no matter how big their ticketed membership bases expanded in future. The same can possibly/probably be said for Manly and Cronulla, given their geographic locations.
      
      It’s really only those in the central & middle rings of Sydney (Roosters, Souths, Bulldogs, Eels, Sydney home games for the Dragons, Wests Tigers) who’d ever be able to take up the equivalent of the MCG/Dome scenario… and already Souths and the Dogs play at ANZ, as do the Eels for two games at least. The Roosters and Tigers (for some games, with others being Leichhardt, Campbelltown and the SCG – Wests Wanderers anyone?) share the SFS.
      
      It’s a fragmented mess and I just can’t see anything changing in the near future.
      
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- Bay35Pablo said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
  
  Central North, “I’ve never seen any mention anywhere of the prospect of a new inner city stadium a la Melbourne.” There have been suggestions of building a new sports precinct at White Bay with the shipping gone. However, that would be just as hard to get to as the SFS, so why bother ….
  
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  - Central North said | January 21st 2010 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
    
    White bay? Near the Anzac Bridge??
    
    So THAT’S what the inner west metro was for!!!!!
    
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Punter said | January 21st 2010 @ 9:08am | Report comment

Having done alot of travelling I find Australians in larger proportions follow sport more than the Europeans or Asians.
I worked in England & found maybe only 1 in 5 English men who followed football to the level where you could have a decent discussion, whereas in Australia in Australia the proportion would be much higher than 1 in 5 for the major football code in their area.

Using this criteria I find Victorians, including women, following AFL at a higher proportion than those in the northern states. It seems that AFL is very much a part of life in Victoria than say Rugby league in NSW.
Most people in Melbourne would have at least some interest in their club of choice in AFL while I don’t think you could say that in Sydney.

Reasons unknown, more things to do in Sydney, poor public transport, etc, who knows, but it just is.

Being from Sydney & being a football fan, I do find it difficult to argue that Melbourne is not the sporting capital of Australia.

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- True Tah said | January 21st 2010 @ 9:19am | Report comment
  
  I concur Punter – I work with plenty of guys from NZ, UK, South African, Chinese, Korean and Japanese backgrounds.
  
  On matters relating to rugby and cricket, there is always “water cooler” discussions with Kiwis, Saffas, Poms about upcoming matches and dissections of where it all went right/wrong, who should get dropped, etc. Within the Aussie contingent we discuss these, plus the NRL and to a lesser extent the AFL.
  
  Now in terms of futbol, Australia played the likes of Japan, China in both Asian Cup and World Cup qualifiers. But there is no banter or discussions about this? Maybe its a cultural thing?
  
  I dont think you could argue that Melbourne is NOT the sporting capital of Australia, and the indicative example of this is the interest Victorian women have in the AFL. Far more Victorian women have an interest in AFL and could have a decent discussion than say NSW women in RL or UK women re: futbol.
  
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  - Dogz R Barkn said | January 21st 2010 @ 9:42am | Report comment
    
    I support the last six posts – that pretty much sums it up for me.
    
    We are slowly buidling a membership culture in NRL, and there’s no denying that League is fantastic on the tele (while I still struggle to come to grips with watching AFL at times – but it’s a different kettle of fish being there in person).
    
    The facilities Melbourne have surrounding its CBD are pretty hard to go past.
    
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  - Towser said | January 21st 2010 @ 9:43am | Report comment
    
    I can say quite confidently, talk to a woman in Sheffield about football & the reply will be even today,
    
    “Freds darnt pub”
    
    I can also say donning my Pom hat ,talk to me about Rugby at the water cooler & you would have no response.
    Cricket Lukewarm . . 90% of Poms Know little Of Rugby,not enough anyway to discuss the intracacies of its play. Unless you mix of course with the 10% of Poms from that section of English society that is intimate with the game.
    
    When in I was working there were always people who would discuss football with you . Not just Poms & Scots ,but immigrants from other football backgrounds & suprisingly a number of Anglo Australians.
    Even way back in the seventies many were interested in the Socceroos & plenty followed English football.
    This was in the dark ages of Football in Australia when its profile was hidden as compared with the last 5 years.
    Of course people also discussed other sports,that is the nature of Australian society,but football was not excluded in my experience.
    
    Perhaps its more a case of people being friendly & knowing your interest, than an actual reflection of anything deeper.
    
    Reply
    - MV Dave said | January 21st 2010 @ 10:01am | Report comment
      
      “Perhaps its more a case of people being friendly & knowing your interest, than an actual reflection of anything deeper” Spot on Towser…colleagues will certainly talk to me about anything they’ve heard regarding football, MV and the Socceroos. Most general chat and banter at my work is AFL, then football and Cricket.
      
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    - jimbo said | January 21st 2010 @ 10:30pm | Report comment
      
      Good post Towser and my experiences too.
      
      It amuses me when people who don’t follow football say that they don’t talk to many people about football – wonder why?
      
      A lot more than one in five people discuss football in the UK.
      
      Reply
  - AndyRoo said | January 21st 2010 @ 10:26am | Report comment
    
    Now in terms of futbol, Australia played the likes of Japan, China in both Asian Cup and World Cup qualifiers. But there is no banter or discussions about this? Maybe its a cultural thing?
    
    I think it’s true sport probably isn’t so important in these cultures, probably because they tend to work 6 day weeks and their doesn’t seem to be such an onus on participation.
    I do wonder though that the way migration works might skew the results and that it is more likely to pull from certain demographics and classes from these countries.
    
    My view could be completely biased because I used to play against Auburn a lot but the Vietnamese seemed to be really into football, much more than other asian migrants. But even Vietnamese refugees that made it too Australia were likely to be wealthier than the Vietnamese left behind.
    
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- jimbo said | January 21st 2010 @ 10:49pm | Report comment
  
  Melbourne and Sydney as cities have different cultures as well as sporting cultures.
  
  In terms of sport following and sport playing Sydney has a greater Television audience and sports participation numbers, while Melbourne has better attendances at games.
  
  Melbourne also has a strong membership culture that is passed down through generations and families.
  Funnily enough they have more members than available seats at the game and a lot of fans have a season ticket but don’t go to a game or even can’t get tickets to games or the grand final if their team makes it.
  
  Which is more imprtant and which is more profitable to the sport – participation numbers and TV audiiences or memberships and attendances at games.
  
  Because from a sports participation, sports market share and TV sports audiences perspective, one might argue that Sydney is the sporting capital of Australia and the one that the AFL commissioners want to dominate.
  
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Redb said | January 21st 2010 @ 9:18am | Report comment

Melbourne’s sporting infrastucture is a product of the importance of sport to the city.

Part of the origns of attending sport can be traced back to the advent of the 8 hour week and Saturday afternoon for recreation. This movement emanated from Melbourne early 1900s.

Sunday was for Church, Saturday’s became available for recreation. Going to the football was a big part of that, remembering Melbourne with its own code had embraced sport very early in its origins, Melbourne town was founded in 1835, gold rush brought immediate wealth, created it’s own football rules in 1859. Melbourne Cup run from 1860,etc.

Melbourne embraced attending sporting events from a very early time in its history. So its not just Sydney, I’d suggest in comparsion to many cities, Melbourne is more sport obsessed and as a consequence more part of the life of its citizens.

Redb

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- Dogz R Barkn said | January 21st 2010 @ 9:43am | Report comment
  
  Interesting history – all good points.
  
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- Redb said | January 21st 2010 @ 9:51am | Report comment
  
  edit: that’s meant to be 40 hour week.
  
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  - Brett McKay said | January 21st 2010 @ 10:28am | Report comment
    
    bugger Red, I was just thinking of applying for jobs in Melbourne!!
    
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bever fever said | January 21st 2010 @ 9:23am | Report comment

Punter said “Being from Sydney & being a football fan, I do find it difficult to argue that Melbourne is not the sporting capital of Australia”

Perhaps you could pass your comment on to Jimbo, he must be the only person in Australian to not think this.

Its possible that poker machines far from being the saviour of sports clubs have actually had the opposite effect, South Sydney may have it right, plenty of easy money must surely create laziness from fans and administrators alike.

Huge difference between the sporting culture of Melbourne and Sydney, think it goes back to the 1800s and how sport in both cities was started.

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- Punter said | January 21st 2010 @ 10:15am | Report comment
  
  bever, I’m not biting into my sport or city is better than yours. I’ll leave that to you.
  
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  - bever fever said | January 21st 2010 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
    
    I am from Perth, would not live in Melbourne for quids, but their sporting culture is far superiors to Sydneys.
    
    In fact Perths probably is as well, very big membership culture as evidenced by full books and waiting lists for our AFL teams and the biggest membership for a super 14 team.
    
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    - Bay35Pablo said | January 21st 2010 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
      
      Well there’s 3 clubs ….. How’s the Glory going?
      
      Melbourne and Sydney each have about a dozen clubs in their major code last I checked.
      
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- jimbo said | January 21st 2010 @ 10:32pm | Report comment
  
  Bever,
  Melbourne is the AFL Capital of the World.
  
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chris said | January 21st 2010 @ 9:51am | Report comment

I don’t think it’s helped having 2 Rugby codes in Sydney even if Union was/is small fry compared to League.
In the 1980′s to the mid 1990′s League got good crowds for it’s grand finals and in the 2nd half of the 80′s/mid 90′s got good crowds for it’s State Of Origin apart from in 1988 but the crowds for international League where poor from the late 1970′s right through the 1980′s.
Union on the other hand got good crowds from the late 70′s right through the 80′s and 90′s despite being 2nd fiddle to League.

So can anyone see where iam going from.

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Matt S said | January 21st 2010 @ 10:37am | Report comment

I’d love to see RL retain some of their suburban grounds, Brookvale, for example, turned into a state of the art ground holding 25,000 with characteristics not seen in bigger stadiums. Nothing better tha having your own ground or entering the oppositions territory. Hopefully we’ll see a good mix of centralised and suburban gruonds in the future. A balance between the furure and the past.

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- Central North said | January 21st 2010 @ 11:12am | Report comment
  
  Yeah it’d be nice, but you’d still have to drive there (or catch one of those nightmare bendy buses that have done the equivalent of four return trips to the moon) and there’d still be mostly on-street parking.
  
  Oh, and it’d still be full of Manly fans!
  
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- Mad Mex said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
  
  Matt, I’ve not been to Brookvale but regularly hear that its facilities are a shambles. I’d imagine this would be a deterrent to attending games here? Certainly down at Geelong, even 5-10 years ago, the facilities were very average. However the stadium has been revamped and is just about to complete stage 2 of a stage 3 reburishment. Capacity has increased from 27k to 30k and by the completion of stage 3 this will be at about 35k, making it a quality boutique stadium in its own right.
  A question. Are there plans to upgrade the facilities at Brookvale? And who would fund it? (Geelong upgrades were funded largely by AFL, local council and the club itself).
  
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  - skull said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
    
    There have been plans for several years to upgrade, but no senior pollie is a Manly supporter so no money there, unlike St. George who benefitted greatly from having the former PM and NSW Premier (Iemma) as supporters, so bucketloades of money was made available to the Dragons to revamp BOTH their grounds.
    
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    - Bay35Pablo said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
      
      skull, the fact that Labor has been in power forever, and Manly is in a Liberal seat whereas St George and Wollongong are Labor or marginal seats would also have nothing to do with it ….
      
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    - MyGeneration said | January 21st 2010 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
      
      They did have Kerry Sibraa, but they managed to get him offside with all the internal bickering.
      
      http://manly-daily.whereilive.com.au/news/story/kerry-sibraa-life-member-of-sea-eagles-quits-club/
      
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