How strong is Sydney’s sporting pulse?
Roar Rookie By Mad Mex, 21 Jan 2010 Mad Mex is a Roar Rookie
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- AFL, Geelong Cats, NRL, Rugby League, Rugby Union
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I preface what I am about to write with the fact that I am a Victorian who has resided in Sydney for the last four years.
Brought up on a staple diet of Aussie rules in the Winter and Aussie Rules off season developments in the summer, with a sizable sprinkling of the cricket, Australian Open, and the Spring Racing Carnival thrown in, I considered myself extremely fortunate.
Moving to Sydney resulted in me sacrificing my greatest love – going to see the blue and white hoops of the Geelong football club running around each weekend.
I downsized my sizable membership package (about $300) and went for the economical (and sensible according to my Sydney born wife) alternative – the interstate membership (~$110) and ensured I had Foxtel to get my AFL fix.
In the interim, I also learned that there was a distinct difference to the rugby codes that we Victorians referred to collectively as rugby.
As I had made the move to Sydney, I thought it apt that I attempt to immerse myself in the local sporting culture and support these two “foreign” games.
I was, however, shocked to tune into Friday night footy (league) and see the stadiums half empty (or in the case of ANZ stadium), 1/6 full.
I was also horrified to learn that membership numbers for NRL clubs were abysmally low compared to AFL clubs. Upon asking why this was so, a friend of mine (whom is the Membership Manager of an NRL club and a fellow Mexican) informed me that league is a better game for TV and that others had informed him that there was much more to do in Sydney than attend football matches on the weekend.
As time passed, I noticed rugby crowds for the Waratahs were falling, after apparently having been strong previously. I was informed that the game was being over officialed and this was leading to “boring” rugby and fans were voting with their feet.
I am not looking to turn this piece into a code war. I am merely trying to better understand what indeed the sporting psyche of Sydney is.
I enjoy both league (particularly SOO) and union, and am still, after four years, baffled as to why attendances and membership figures are as small as they are.
Through my Sydney based friends and work colleagues, I understand that these small figures are not due to a lack of interest or support of these codes.
Indeed TV ratings, particularly of league, are incredibly strong. But I just don’t fully understand as to why people won’t attend a game or sign up as a member of their team.
Is it the geography of the sporting precinct? Is it financial? Or is it because Sydneysiders have more to do with their weekends than attend sporting fixtures?
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January 21st 2010 @ 11:03am
Ghost said | January 21st 2010 @ 11:03am | Report comment
My perspective is that the Sydney mentality is much more fluid. By that, I mean the notion of signing up to attend games each week or fortnight for a whole season is not so well accepted. You might actually end up doing so up here, but you still reserve the right tom change your mind at the last minute and so instead of taking out a membership you buy tickets each individual time. Of course, if something else comes up, if the weather is bad, or if a not-so-passionate mate wants to see the game from a pub rather than at the ground, it makes it easier not to attend. Of course some of the geographic and transport issues raised above accellerate this issue as they make it that much easier to say at the last minute ‘nah its a hassle’.
I’m not makingg a judgement one way or the other by the way, but I do think this issue of routine and ‘the traditional thing to do on a Saturday’ is stronger in Melbourne, and the fluidity is stronger in Sydney. Interesting dillemma for the marketeers of course!
And to finish with a compliment… even as a Sydneysider I can only but admire the sporting setup of Melbourne. It is truly fantastic and user-friendly. (Pity about the wierd little game it’s primarily devoted to
)
January 21st 2010 @ 12:29pm
Mad Mex said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
Ghost, good points that you have raised here.
“By that, I mean the notion of signing up to attend games each week or fortnight for a whole season is not so well accepted. You might actually end up doing so up here, but you still reserve the right tom change your mind at the last minute and so instead of taking out a membership you buy tickets each individual time. Of course, if something else comes up, if the weather is bad, or if a not-so-passionate mate wants to see the game from a pub rather than at the ground, it makes it easier not to attend.”
However is this part of the Sydney psyche? In Melbourne, no doubt there will be games that are not attended for one reason or another but fans still part with their hard earned for a membership. It is seen as derogatory to merely be a supporter and not a financial member of your club (this is purely the broad perception of AFL fans in Melbourne). Financially contributing to your team is seen as being a part of your team and consolidating its future. I believe there was always an expectation that your side would financially survive, but the proposed Footscray merger, the bankruptcy and death of Fitzroy as an AFL side and numerous speculation over the furture of Melbourne, North Melbourne and Hawthorn (now a financial powerhouse with 50k members) saw fans understand the dire predicament of their club and their future and resulted in a boom in membership sales. I think Cronulla and some NRL clubs reallky need to instill this fear within their fan base (whom aren’t members) because it would appear that the Bears and Souths were not enough warning.
January 21st 2010 @ 11:08am
Lazza said | January 21st 2010 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Melbourne and Adelaide have the most passionate sporting cultures in the country. Adelaide, in particular, with it’s much smaller population always manages to get large attendances to it’s sporting events. AFL, Soccer, Cricket, F1, Tour down Under are all well attended. No one here knows much about Rugby but the WC got sell outs even for the poor quality games that were played here.
Prior to the AFL we had our own state based Aussie Rules competition, the SANFL. The Grand Finals would always get 50-60k and I attended one in 1976 with 66,000 watching. So it’s interesting to read why Sydney, a much larger city, has so much trouble filling a stadium.
January 21st 2010 @ 11:37am
Timmypig said | January 21st 2010 @ 11:37am | Report comment
Mex for “Roarer of the Week” ?
Well done Mex, a thread with nary a hint of childish argy bargy.
The fractured sporting landscape in Sydney would have to be a factor, as many have stated. Agreed.
Poor public transport to grounds? Spot on. I grew up in the Shire, used to go to Saturday night games at Shark Park. These used to fill the ground in the late 1980s, very early 1990s. Pretty good team, ‘celebrity’ fans, family-friendly atmosphere (as much as can be expected), and with the club backing onto the Eastern Stand you could make a night of it – restaurants, bars, etc. But you HAD to drive. Half-hourly trains to Woolooware then a 45 min walk the only other alternative.
Location of grounds – many of us have vented our spleen about Homebush, even if it’s on a railway line, or if there are busses galore put on for special events, far too many people just don’t want to go there. It’s a cruddy stadium for football / rugby / rugby league, and a compromise too far for cricket / Aus Rules.
Traffic getting too hard? In addition to the ever increasing traffic loads on Sydney’s roads, here are also the physical restrictions on getting around due to rivers / harbours / etc- too many choke points and too few direct easy routes. Ever looked at getting from the Hills District, for example, to let’s say Brooky? It’s easier to get to Campbelltown than to Brookvale by car, but that’s twice the distance. Also costs real $$$ to drive on toll roads. When there’s no alternative to driving, and driving gets too painful, Foxtel appears the only solution.
January 21st 2010 @ 11:58am
Travis said | January 21st 2010 @ 11:58am | Report comment
Another issue is ANZ Stadium. The state government public bus transport network only becomes operative for “event” game such as the Swans, Wallabies, Socceroos, Origin & the NRL GF.
For these events your ground entry ticket gets you a free bus or train ride there and back.
But if you don’t live near a rail line you can’t get to a NRL game at ANZ unless you drive to the ground or a train line.
Even the massive Eels- Bulldogs NRL final didn’t see the government activate the direct public transport option until 2 days before the match.
For regular NRL club games at ANZ the bus network doesn’t operate. So most of Sydney has no direct access to ANZ. The rail system doesn’t cover all of the city metro area.
Really, Sydney sux. GWS AFL at ANZ will have the same problem unless they get a deal with the government to run the buses.
January 21st 2010 @ 12:11pm
Redb said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
This was the biggest problem with Waverley in Melbourne’s southeast. It was close to the freeway, had a reasonably large parking area, but no rail link whatsoever. Getting out of the carpark was an exercise in frustration especially if your team lost. At least when they won you got to soak up the glory listening to sports talkback radio whilst you waited.
January 21st 2010 @ 3:11pm
Simmo said | January 21st 2010 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
Having to drive also means you can’t drink. I can’t imagine footy without a few
January 21st 2010 @ 12:25pm
Carringbush said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
What an informative topic to introduce me to this great forum. Everyone seems to have covered the valid points of transport and geographical location of venues. I’m in an AFL supporter group here in Sydney and it took a time finding a pub that would televise AFL at the expense of League as well as the venue being close to public transport. We found one but the transport is still an issue (about a km from two train stations)
I concur with the posts about AFL informed women. I remember being in Melbourne with a group of attractive, intelligent career women who, when the topic came to footy, had well formed and long standing opinions on all facets of the game and where it was heading, as well as mostly being paid up members. Another aspect that may or may not happen is Sydney is that being an MCC member and signing up your kids from birth is a rite of passage and the venue is used to discuss business.
The poker machines are definitely a factor in the crowds. While many Rugby League clubs are now adopting the AFL membership schemes, notably Souths and Wests Tigers, for years when a supporter said they were paid up members, they were invariably members of the leagues club paying the princely sum of $5 to $15 a year.
Despite the ordinary conditions in most suburban grounds, there’s no doubt that a 20,000 crowd generates a buzz. Maybe, as someone suggested, there is no need to push the clubs out of these grounds because they aren’t getting many more at the bigger grounds. It was brilliant to see 70,000 at the Parra vs Canterbury final last year but sadly that sort of crowd is an anomaly. There was talk of moving the State of Origin (which is brilliant) back to the SFS to get a better atmosphere. With that sort of thinking it was no wonder they reduced the Olympic Stadium by 20,000 seats after the Olympics. I think the argument that QLD is more passionate about Rugby League than Sydney is quite valid. I went to an Origin at Lang Park during the Wally Lewis era and the atmosphere was awesome and something that NSW could not seem to replicate, despite a multitude of characters to love and hate.
A final point is that AFL is a religion in Melbourne and while other codes are tolerated, they are given scant coverage compared to the behemoth that is AFL. You only have to listen to the different versions of Sports Today. In Sydney on 2UE with Gibbsey & Brandy, while league may dominate the first hour during the season, all manner of sports are covered. Whereas in Melbourne on 3AW Gerard Healy and Dwanne Russell and numerous AFL media and game identities cover AFL ad nauseum, even during the off season.
Thank you again for a wonderful topic on a wonderful forum.
January 21st 2010 @ 12:45pm
Bay35Pablo said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
Mad Mex, “It is seen as derogatory to merely be a supporter and not a financial member of your club”
I’m a tahs season pass holder, and people seem to see that as I’m a bit mad, or must be really interested in rugby. Similarly, I have a mate who is a Bulldogs member and has been for years, but is seen as a “full on” Doggies man.
It is easier to buy a Tahs memebrship than a NRL one, as it is less games. However, the issue appears to be that you only buy membership if you are going to see all the games. It is more a ticketing thing than a commitment thing for those who buy them I suspect. As has been said, many people consider themselves big fans but wouldn’t have membership, which is different to Melbourne with the AFL.
Therefore, the first issue appears to be time and money. Some people don’t want to commit to that many games, and be “stuck” having to go to them all or waste money.
The financial side may have an issue as noted above, in that the pokies were seen as providing league team funding for decades, so you didn’t need to be a member to support your club, as they’d be fine without you.
I think the key to Sydney memberships for all clubs is to provide some structure where they don’t have to commit to games, but still get some sort of benefit. A lot of NRL teams do different formats for the season, such as only some home games, games at certain grounds (e.g. Leichhardt only for Tigers), so it is slowly moving that way I suspect.
But for many in Sydney I think sport is soemthing people are interested in, pay attention to in the media, and to talk about at the water cooler, but attending games has certain issues and is merely one of a number of things Sydney siders will get up to on the weekend. In melbourne the question seems to be not “Will we go to a sporting event this weekend” but “Which sporting event are we going to this weekend”.
Blame it on the beaches …
January 21st 2010 @ 12:58pm
Redb said | January 21st 2010 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
Whislt it’s tempting for Sydneysiders to go the more things to do route or beaches argument, we arent talking about more than a 4 hour commitment sometimes at night over an entire weekend. Normal AFL club members see a 3 hour game once every fortnight (11 games a year). That leaves plenty of time to do other things.
January 21st 2010 @ 11:17pm
Midfielder said | January 21st 2010 @ 11:17pm | Report comment
Count sheep… play cards …. buy power ball tickets so you can move to Sydney
January 22nd 2010 @ 7:23am
Redb said | January 22nd 2010 @ 7:23am | Report comment
South West Rocks maybe?
read my posts above re the gold rush et al, it really gave Melbourne an opportunity to recreate before many other cities and and not just sport. Spectacular theatres in the CBD, massive gardens, world class architecture of the time, the now World heritage listed Exhibition Building which hosted a World Fair around 1900. Marvellous Melbourne from the 1880s, etc.
In simple terms, Melbourne can thank its obsession with sport to the world’s obsession with Au.
http://www.buzzle.com/img/articleImages/280588-42126-43.jpg
Redb
January 21st 2010 @ 1:02pm
Dogs Of War said | January 21st 2010 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
“It is easier to buy a Tahs memebrship than a NRL one, as it is less games. ”
That was true before, but not so much now. Most NRL clubs offer limited attendance type memberships. For example the Bulldogs offer a supporter pack of 2 tickets plus other gear for about $70. These are the types of tickets that clubs should be targeting the casual supporters to get to show there support for the club. It’s not good enough anymore to be a non-financial supporter of the code. I personally tend not to use these 2 tickets (They are GA, and I don’t like sitting their too much), but it’s me doing my part for the club.
January 21st 2010 @ 1:07pm
Springs said | January 21st 2010 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
True, I recently became an Eels member for the first time with the ‘Regioneels’ membership. 4 tickets plus the all the non-ticketed member stuff for around $120. I might actually be able to go to more than 1 game a year now.
January 21st 2010 @ 1:36pm
moo cow said | January 21st 2010 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
I’d say it’s geography and the simple fact that Melburnians care about sport more. I don’t really follow AFL that much but if the Bulldogs make it to the finals series than I’ll watch them play even though I am more of a round ball fan.
January 21st 2010 @ 2:19pm
Queenslander said | January 21st 2010 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
I live in Brisbane and follow both Aussie Rules (AFL) and Rugby League (NRL). I am a Brisbane Lions Member and attend all home games and get down to a few Gold Coast Titans games during the season as well. From being a Lions member I can understand why a lot of people don’t commit. I have missed out on some occasions due to Lions games.
The weather in Sydney could have a lot to do with it too. I know the weather up here is a little, I mean a lot better but i know most people will opt for a day at the beach or just out in the sun then watch a footy game. I think there is that “theres always next time attitude” here and maybe the same in Sydney.
We can probably consider ourselves lucky here in South East QLD as we are only a one team town (for either code) in Brisbane with the Lions & Broncos. With just the Titans on the Gold coast untill next year when the GCFC join the AFL. Thats probably why they attract good crowds. (Yet to see with GCFC). Having great stadiums in the heart of the city (Brisbane) doesn’t hurt as well and with any ticket purchace to any sporting game gives you free public transport to the game in Brisbane and on the GC.
Queenslanders lover their sport as much as the rest of the county during winter Footy is all that is talked. Rugby League being on top to Aussie Rules but the Rules is getting stronger. You’ve probably noticed that I haven’t spoken of the Rugby Union or A-League. These codes do have support but not on the same scale as Legue and Rules.
Cheers
January 21st 2010 @ 3:40pm
MyGeneration said | January 21st 2010 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
Most of the aspects have been pretty well covered already, but having spent half-an-hour stuck on a bus on Cleveland St (5 or 10 minutes walk from the SCG) on the first morning of the New Year’s cricket test, I’ll emphasise transport as the number one bogey. This was for a half-full stadium on the day, with many staying away because of the weather, and it is Sydney’s premier sporting location. It really makes watching at home or the pub seem like a pretty good option. Sydney’s road system is never going to be ideal because of the landscape, so some day some government is going to have to bite the bullet and invest in public transport in this city (and that’s not just a sport issue).
January 21st 2010 @ 4:48pm
macavity said | January 21st 2010 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
Gotta agree on the transport issue. Sydney is absolutely horrendous, I don’t understand how anyone could live there tbh.
Melbourne is a fantastic city in comparison – I could live there except for the AFL obsession.
January 21st 2010 @ 5:03pm
jimbo said | January 21st 2010 @ 5:03pm | Report comment
I would distinguish between in the city and Olympic complex and Parramatta Stadium.
Transport to the Olympic stadium is excellent, with a train station at the stadium door and heaps of buses from 20k radius.
Parramatta Stadium is easy to get to and plenty of parking.
The main problem is Sydney Football Stadium which is 25 mins walk from the train station and to get there you have to go through the worst of Sydney’s traffic, especiall coming from the North, South or West.
I once got stuck in the traffic on the way to the Socceroos Bahrain game and it took over 2 hours to get there.
By the time we got to our seats the ref blew the whistle for half time.
January 21st 2010 @ 5:05pm
jimbo said | January 21st 2010 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
Sydney is a fantastic place to live and one of the greatest cities in the world.
It consistently rates in the top ten city in the world for any travel, tourism or lifestyle surveys.