It is quite apparent that rugby in Australia is currently at a very firm down. We are yet to see what the new season will bring. There is a possibility, however, that this limiting down may break rugby back into free to air.
Before the viewing numbers were such that is wasn’t viable for FTA channels to buy the rights, but highly viable for Pay TV.
Now, as viewing figures are reaching possible record lows, rugby could cost the same as bull riding, the new fast pace basketball, and various other obscure sports.
The difference being that there is still a presence, which once the FTA barrier is broken, could be capitalised on.
There are two cost barriers with free to air TV.
One is the cost barrier for the sports, which can be capitalised on and provide ratings success; the other is the low cost, low budget airtime filling sports, such is seen often on ONE HD.
So current ratings set forth by various media monitoring could be a benefit to the rugby watching public.
This larger exposure then leads to slightly greater ratings and eventual re-growth, hopefully past retention point, to a competitive viability.
This system is possible, and quite probable if, after this season, rugby continues on its slope in terms of viewing figures. It may be a blessing in disguise.
Recommend this story.
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January 22nd 2010 @ 11:17am
Saint 60 said | January 22nd 2010 @ 11:17am | Report comment
Rugby will be fine – but laughable when compared to league and aussierules in Aust…
what i do find as hard to take..Aussierules in 09 was on in primetime in Syd on Friday nights and also most Sunday nights…on channels 10 and 7 this im informed is not the case in Melbourne for the Nrl there are not much in the numbers on those nights in Syd but they do count =
ehhh its all Tv deals so long as the codes are making a quid outa the dam TV good
January 22nd 2010 @ 1:45pm
Big Kev said | January 22nd 2010 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
so what? Rugby will still have 100 x the viewers that League has globally and we live in a global village so who cares if league out-rates Union in 2 states in one country in the entire world!
January 26th 2010 @ 5:22pm
Realist said | January 26th 2010 @ 5:22pm | Report comment
“so what? Rugby will still have 100 x the viewers that League has globally and we live in a global village so who cares if league out-rates Union in 2 states in one country in the entire world!” — Big Kev
Big Kev,
Rugby league kills rugby union in PNG.
January 26th 2010 @ 6:16pm
keba said | January 26th 2010 @ 6:16pm | Report comment
And rugby kills league worldwide
January 27th 2010 @ 1:41am
Realist said | January 27th 2010 @ 1:41am | Report comment
“And rugby kills league worldwide”
Only because its standing within the English establishment during the 19th and 20th centuries gave it the opportunity to expand throughout the British Empire’s vast colonies around the world. If rugby league held a strong standing with the English establishment then it would be the more globalised code.
January 30th 2010 @ 9:02pm
san jorge said | January 30th 2010 @ 9:02pm | Report comment
maybe
January 22nd 2010 @ 2:04pm
Rickety Knees said | January 22nd 2010 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
RF – you are being disengenous. Rugby has an expanded comp and Rugby World Cup in 2011 – that’s next year! Rugby is now in the Olympics. So what if NRL is watched more (but only) in Australia – the fact is that Rugby is a global sport second only to Futbol.
Take a deep breath my friend, scan the horizon and look at the big picture.
January 22nd 2010 @ 4:58pm
Dogs Of War said | January 22nd 2010 @ 4:58pm | Report comment
Yeah, as we see Soccers global profile translates into sporting success for the Australian Soccer clubs. So why not Union?
January 22nd 2010 @ 5:41pm
Sth Auckland First XV said | January 22nd 2010 @ 5:41pm | Report comment
Why not Union?? Union has been very successful in the past and has had its moments in the sun. The 2003 RWC final is the most (or second – not sure) most watched sporting event in Australian history. The Waratahs v Crusaders final in 2008 was the highest rating programme on Fox Sports for 2008. The 2003 world cup was a fantastic success, the 2001 British & Irish Lions tour also, and at times (when Australian teams win), the Super 14. So to say Union has not been a success in Australia is rubbish. There’s no way League could claim these successes in Union strongholds like Wales, England, Ireland, Scotland, NZ, Sth Africa etc. So, Union definately has the proven potential to bury league for popularity in Australia. It has it’s time in the sun in Australia, and will continue to do so. At the moment there is a media bias issue against Union in Australia, but that will change, and Union will be in the spotlight again, and popular with high ratings and crowds. All it takes is for the Wallabies to string together a few wins, and may be a Super 14 title for the Waratahs or Reds.
January 22nd 2010 @ 5:43pm
Dogs Of War said | January 22nd 2010 @ 5:43pm | Report comment
Given it peaked only 6 years ago in Australia. Why has it fallen off it’s perch so badly?
Can you provide a link for the Tahs vs Crusaders final.
January 22nd 2010 @ 8:03pm
Dogs Of War said | January 22nd 2010 @ 8:03pm | Report comment
http://blogs.sunherald.com.au/whoweare/archives/2008/12/the_week_the_mo.html
Here is the link, will place the top 20 watched shows in the list. Do notice that a normal round League match still beat the final of the S14 final, and no other Super 14 match even made the list.
Sports Programs
1 LIVE: RUGBY UNION: BLEDISLOE CUP Fox Sports 3 350
2 LIVE: FOOTBALL: WORLD CUP QUALIFIER AUST V QATAR Fox Sports 3 345
3 LIVE: NRL COWBOYS V PANTHERS Fox Sports 2 338
4 LIVE: RUGBY UNION: S14 FINAL CRUSADERS V WARATAHS Fox Sports 3 333
5 LIVE: FOOTBALL WORLD CUP QUALIFIER AUSTRALIA V IRAQ Fox Sports 3 330
6 LIVE: NRL COWBOYS V STORM Fox Sports 2 328
7 LIVE: NRL RAIDERS V STORM Fox Sports 2 322
8 LIVE & ACTIVE: NRL DRAGONS V COWBOYS Fox Sports 2 320
9 LIVE & ACTIVE: NRL SHARKS V SEA EAGLES Fox Sports 2 314
10 LIVE: NRL PANTHERS V ROOSTERS Fox Sports 2 310
11 LIVE: NRL COWBOYS V ROOSTERS Fox Sports 2 304
12 LIVE: NRL WESTS TIGERS V STORM Fox Sports 2 302
13 LIVE: NRL DRAGONS V TITANS Fox Sports 2 300
14 LIVE: NRL SEA EAGLES V SHARKS Fox Sports 2 300
15 LIVE: NRL KNIGHTS V EELS Fox Sports 2 299
16 LIVE: NRL BULLDOGS V RABBITOHS Fox Sports 2 297
17 LIVE: NRL STORM V WARRIORS Fox Sports 2 297
18 LIVE: NRL TITANS V DRAGONS Fox Sports 2 295
19 LIVE: NRL RAIDERS V DRAGONS Fox Sports 2 294
20 LIVE: NRL ROOSTERS V STORM Fox Sports 2 294
January 22nd 2010 @ 8:09pm
big Kev said | January 22nd 2010 @ 8:09pm | Report comment
The Bledisloe game was also live on channel 7…. plus Union games get a few hundred thousand extra viewers in SA, NZ and Europe so not even close where League gets 43 people watching the highlights outside of NSW and QLD!
January 22nd 2010 @ 8:15pm
Dogs Of War said | January 22nd 2010 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
Yeah, but most Friday night league matches beat it in the ratings.
Other countries aren’t important in this particular argument, because they really don’t brign in any real large audiences that broadcasters will pay for (well not for either of these sports at this level). Do you really think the Super 14 final got outstanding ratings in Europe? It would have only attracted a few expats, and diehard Union lovers. That’s it!.
The point was that he said that the Super 14 final outrated all the NRL matches on Pay TV, I just want to point out that he is fibbing.
Anyway, talking about what is popular in Australia to a Union supporter is like talking to a brick wall. You guys are like the soccer mob, thinking that because a sport is popular elsewhere in the world, that it’s automatically is a better sport. Well your wrong.
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:22pm
John Ryan said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:22pm | Report comment
Curious as to how you know that Big Kev,have you researched it I know they were over 100,000 watched State or Origin on TV in Perth, and when 9 deigned to show the Sunday game between 10,000 to 30000 would watch it. And as you don;t get a breakdown of Pay TV viewing figures by the State I don’t know how many here watch it on Sat arvo,I do when I get back from watching my local club play,9 5000 watched the pre season game last year and 18000 turned out for the Storm Souths game.
Bit more than 43 I think
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:31pm
big Kev said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:31pm | Report comment
yes I was exagerating but to be honest the numbers are tiny where a Union test for eg between Aus and NZ will get millions of viewers (5 – 10m?) outside of those countries….
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:38pm
KhoiSan said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:38pm | Report comment
Im with you big kev we all watch the tri-nations games between the wallabies and the all blacks. We just love our rugby in South Africa and the tri-nations is a great tournament
January 22nd 2010 @ 11:00pm
Jannerboyuk said | January 22nd 2010 @ 11:00pm | Report comment
Well according to BARB live tri-nations rugby shown on sky sports 3 in the uk on saturday 18 july came 7th in the weekly top 10 with 27,000 viewers. So im not sure where the 5-10 million comes from.
http://www.barb.co.uk/report/weeklyTopProgrammes?
January 22nd 2010 @ 9:43pm
Jim Wilson said | January 22nd 2010 @ 9:43pm | Report comment
More on the Waratahs v Crusaders & their GF Pay TV Ratings in 2008:
http://www.astra.org.au/content/pdf/MediaReleases/ASTRA-Ratings-for-Week-080525.pdf
1 LIVE: NRL COWBOYS V PANTHERS Fox Sports 2 Sat 19:30 324 324 1,440 639
2 LIVE: RUGBY UNION: S14 FINAL Fox Sports 3 Sat 17:30 324 324 1,392 705
3 LIVE: NRL BULLDOGS V SHARKS Fox Sports 2 Mon 19:00 238 238 1,166 577
4 NRL KNIGHTS V WARRIORS Fox Sports 2 Sat 21:20 222 222 1,179 571
5 LIVE & ACTIVE: AFL W BULLDOGS V N MELB Fox Sports 1 Sun 16:32 221 221 1,131 583
6 LIVE: AFL HAWTHORN V WESTERN BULLDOGS Fox Sports 1 Sat 14:00 184 184 1,090 547
7 LIVE & ACTIVE: NRL STORM V BULLDOGS Fox Sports 2 Sat 17:30 182 182 1,392 585
8 LIVE: AFL BRISBANE LIONS V ST KILDA Fox Sports 1 Sun 13:00 179 179 1,159 503
9 AUSTRALIA’S NEXT TOP MODEL FOX8 Tue 19:32 177 273 1,079 615
10 LIVE: NRL WARRIORS V ROOSTERS Fox Sports 2 Sun 14:00 173 173 1,226 420
11 THE SIMPSONS FOX8 Sun 10:40 152 209 779 1,860
12 FUTURAMA FOX8 Wed 18:22 140 180 798 1,018
13 SELLING HOUSES AUSTRALIA Lifestyle Wed 19:30 140 176 1,276 535
14 LIVE: AFL BRISBANE LIONS V NORTH MELB Fox Sports 1 Sat 19:00 132 132 1,430 592
BTW RL has been & probable still is England’s second biggest spectator sport.
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:15pm
big Kev said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:15pm | Report comment
Union is so far ahead of RL in terms of spectator numbers and TV viewers in England it’s not even funny. What a ridiculous, innacurate statement.
The League Grand Final and league test matches in England get an audience of about 300,000 versus between 3 and 14m for a rugby union final or test. Dream on
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:20pm
Sam el Perro said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:20pm | Report comment
Interestingly, you are both wrong. Horse racing is the second biggest spectator sport in England in 2009!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/6990498/Racing-is-the-second-biggest-spectator-sport-Horse-Racing.html
January 26th 2010 @ 5:50pm
Realist said | January 26th 2010 @ 5:50pm | Report comment
“Union has been very successful in the past and has had its moments in the sun. The 2003 RWC final is the most (or second – not sure) most watched sporting event in Australian history. The Waratahs v Crusaders final in 2008 was the highest rating programme on Fox Sports for 2008. The 2003 world cup was a fantastic success, the 2001 British & Irish Lions tour also, and at times (when Australian teams win), the Super 14.” — Sth Auckland First XV
Your example provs Australians will support a rugby union team that is a) an underdog and b) able to beat their more fancied opponents. The support dwindles when the teams are hopeless and are most likely going to lose to their more fancied opposition on most occassions.
The same trend applies in tennis.
What this means is the typical Australian attitude of supporting the ‘battler who is beating the odds’ is what has held rugby union up in the past. If the Wallabies continue to slide down the rankings — which is a real possibility given the game’s precarious state, both on and off the field — then the game could reach its lowest point.
January 26th 2010 @ 6:02pm
Realist said | January 26th 2010 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
big Kev,
I wouldn’t get too carried away with the Wallabies’ so-called “support” at their home Test matches. A large chunk of the people who attend the Tri-Nations matches in Australia are migrants from New Zealand and South Africa. The same applies when England and the British Isles play the Wallabies in Australia.
Hey Kev, look at this!
“The bad news is this year’s highest-rating Bledisloe Cup match, on free-to-air, attracted 521,000 viewers while May’s rugby league Anzac Test drew 917,000.
The highest-rating 2008 Bledisloe Cup Test achieved 727,000 on Channel Seven, a massive 206,000 more than 2009. Both were out-ranked considerably by the ARL Kangaroos Tests.” Josh Rakic, “It’s too much for a game to bear”, SMH, October 25,2009
January 22nd 2010 @ 9:20pm
big Kev said | January 22nd 2010 @ 9:20pm | Report comment
well it certainly translates into big dollars for australian soccer players – so guys you have never heard of are earning far more than your overhyped League and AFL stars in places ranging from Europe to Japan to the middle East. Same for rugby – even league players are running after Union dollars in Japan, France, England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland. Why do you think that is DoW?
January 22nd 2010 @ 9:25pm
Dogs Of War said | January 22nd 2010 @ 9:25pm | Report comment
I don’t watch sport because I hope the players can earn lots of money overseas where I am unlikely to watch them week to week, or get the chance to see them live in the flesh. I watch it because it entertains me, and who knows, I may meet them.
I think your idea of what sports are all about are a little warped. Good on those guys for earning as much money as they can, at least they will leave me memories of how good they were when they played League, and guess what, the next SBW, Gasnier etc appears and we all think how good is this bloke!
So lucky for you, you can enjoy late nights watching Pay TV, so you too can see the overpaid ex-League stars playing Union for some team you don’t identify with, while I will walk down to Homebush and watch the Bulldogs in the flesh, and maybe even meet them after the game.
January 22nd 2010 @ 9:31pm
big Kev said | January 22nd 2010 @ 9:31pm | Report comment
I only mention it because it is a directly result of a far greater interest in the sport. you have every right to want to walk to your local ground and watch your neighbourhood team play your chosen sport – but you are somehow trying to big up your chosen sport because in one tiny corner of the world there is more interest in it! The fact that RL is more popular in Aus that RU or soccer means absolutely nothing to anyone other than the people here. As RL, RU and soccer players have shown, it is certainly appealing to them to have the opportunity to go and play RU or soccer for far more money overseas. This is a direct result of a far greater global interest in the game. And as we live in a small world, getting smaller and smaller, it really is completely irrelevant how many people in NSW or QLD watch a game when the global audience pays the bills in a far greater way.
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:06pm
Sam el Perro said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:06pm | Report comment
You said: “The fact that RL is more popular in Aus that RU or soccer means absolutely nothing to anyone other than the people here.”
The article said: “It is quite apparent that rugby in Australia is currently at a very firm down.”
Given that we are commenting on the article, to talk about popularity in Australia is particularly on point, as opposed to meaning absolutely nothing.
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:14pm
John Ryan said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:14pm | Report comment
Thats funny I have pay,as far as I know I pay for it,I don’t watch Rugby Union so how does the global audience pay the bill, as far as I know in football most don’t give two hoots about what happens overseas.
And judging by the Audience figures they dont care much about RU either
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:20pm
big Kev said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:20pm | Report comment
The global audience pays the bill – simple, if subscribers in other countries want to watch, local pay TV stations buy the rights. Aus shares in a massive TV deal for rugby with NZ and SA, plus the rights are sold to Sky, Canal + etc. As an example the Heineken Cup Fina was watched by an estimated television audience of 35 million in 86 countries. So if a league game in Wigan outrated that particular match in Lancashire, are you really telling me the global figure is not relevant?
Yes Union is struggling a bit here in Aus but globally it is on a massive popularity surge…
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:32pm
Jannerboyuk said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:32pm | Report comment
@ Kev any reference for that heinekin cup figure?
January 26th 2010 @ 5:30pm
big Kev said | January 26th 2010 @ 5:30pm | Report comment
JBK: http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/80_118.php
January 23rd 2010 @ 5:16pm
Dave said | January 23rd 2010 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
You don’t identify with any other rugby league teams outside of the Bulldogs ? I support my local team in NZ but I also have teams I watched in the English and French rugby championship. Is there anything wrong with that DOW ?
January 26th 2010 @ 6:50pm
Dogs Of War said | January 26th 2010 @ 6:50pm | Report comment
I don’t have foxtel, so no point following teams via Newspaper, plus life is much better if you live it. Love getting on my bike and going for a ride, so a little sport following my local team is more than enough.
Don’t know where you find the team to really watch English and French Rugby. Now and again when Channel 9 show the ESL on a Sunday afternoon I may watch whatever teams they show, as I may with the Shute Shield on Saturdays if I am around (Go Randwick!)
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:41pm
Jim Wilson said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:41pm | Report comment
Second biggest spectator sport hve a look here:
http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/SportsHistorian/1996/sh16d.pdf
Extract:
“…Stephen Jones, brave soul that he is, provides this analysis of Rugby
League in the serene knowledge that he won’t be challenged – either by his
editor or by his colleagues on The Sunday Times. As a so-called vehicle for
the disinterested coverage of sport The Sunday Times gives no genuine
coverage to Rugby League, despite the game still being the second most
popular spectator sport in the country. As Martin Sadler has said: ‘There
is no Rugby League writer for that newspaper who can put right the gross
distortions that a writer like Jones inflicts upon a gullible readership
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:48pm
Sam el Perro said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:48pm | Report comment
To be fair, the source you are quoting is 14 years old.
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:51pm
big Kev said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:51pm | Report comment
couldn’t find that extract in that document but there is no way in hell League is the second most poular spectator sport in England. My guess is not in the top 10. That quote is probably 10 years old.
January 22nd 2010 @ 11:05pm
Jannerboyuk said | January 22nd 2010 @ 11:05pm | Report comment
The clue is in the spectator bit, i.e. people turning up through the gates. Not sure where it is, dont particularly care, but im curious as to what sports you think occupy the top ten if league doesnt get a place?
January 22nd 2010 @ 11:47pm
Springs said | January 22nd 2010 @ 11:47pm | Report comment
The ESL in 2009 had around a 1,800,000 aggregate attendance. The Guiness Premiership had ~ 1,450,000. The Challenge Cup drew 227,000 aggregate. While in the Heineken Cup 2008-09, the English clubs drew around 271,000.
English International Union drew 246,000 to the 6 Nations, other tests probably taking the figure to 500,000. England League Internationals drew around 110,000.
Co-Operative Championship drew 217,000, Championship 1 71,000. I Don’t know about the Union lower tiers.
My estimates for League= ~2,425,000
Union = 2,221,000 + the Union lower tiers.
To me Big Kev, that seems like League would be in the Top 10 of English Spectator sports.
January 22nd 2010 @ 11:53pm
Colin N said | January 22nd 2010 @ 11:53pm | Report comment
“The ESL in 2009 had around a 1,800,000 aggregate attendance. The Guiness Premiership had ~ 1,450,000.”
The Super League play more rounds, that’s why their aggregate attendence is higher.
January 22nd 2010 @ 11:59pm
Springs said | January 22nd 2010 @ 11:59pm | Report comment
I understand that Colin, the ESL also play more games per round. I’m not saying this to provide proof of a foolish argument that League is more popular than Union in England, just to disprove the foolish statement that bighead kev posted.
January 23rd 2010 @ 12:31am
Siva Samoa said | January 23rd 2010 @ 12:31am | Report comment
is he adding all the superleague crowds including france and wales or just the english crowds for both codes ?
January 23rd 2010 @ 2:16am
Jannerboyuk said | January 23rd 2010 @ 2:16am | Report comment
Just to break down the rugby league attendance figures in the uk futher, it seems to include all superleague games including those played in france and wales but doesnt include the french elite figures. 1,872,827 includes 1,608,291 for superleague (up from 916,000 in 1997) and 264,000 for other divisions (down from 353,000 in 1997) but does not include millenium magic or the northern rail cup. The overall aggregate is the highest since the 1967-68 with 2,126,734 albeit in an entirely english set up. This was put together by the League Express in the 11th January edition. For the record their calculation differed slightly with the official RFL figure, which was higher. Make of these figures what you will.
January 23rd 2010 @ 5:44pm
Dave said | January 23rd 2010 @ 5:44pm | Report comment
Lets cut with the chase around and not worry about the pass crowds and glory. Lets just put up the figures for last year . Why would you inlcude superleague games played in France and Wales but not heineken cup and challenge shield games played by English teams in Wales, Ireland, France, Italy and Scotland ? Why don’t you include club and international games played in Wales and Scotland ?
http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/SportsHistorian/1996/sh16d.pdf
This website is so outdated and bias. I hope JW will do his homework and give us a real indicate in 2009 of which code of rugby has the most spectators in the UK or England .
January 24th 2010 @ 10:10am
Jim Wilson said | January 24th 2010 @ 10:10am | Report comment
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/8476169.stm
HEC game yesterday
Edinburg v Stade Francais
Att: 3,792
Edinburgh 9-7 Stade Francais
Edinburgh (6) 9
Pens: Paterson 3
Stade Francais (7) 7
Tries: Pape Cons: Beauxis
January 24th 2010 @ 10:38am
big Kev said | January 24th 2010 @ 10:38am | Report comment
Heineken Cup 2008–09:
total attendance: 1,177,064
Ave 14,900
Record: 82,208
Competition is only a few years old and is growing rapidly
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:54pm
Jim Wilson said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:54pm | Report comment
For Kev (an article a bit dated but what the heck)
…Why is it that rugby league has never had a greater national and international appeal in its history?
Sailor’s departure has had little effect on the appeal of his former league team
Because at last young men can try their hand at the game without fear of a ban from the rival code.
Hence, alongside the many thousands of amateurs and schoolchildren in the heartlands of rugby league, students play at over 75 universities and colleges throughout Britain.
The sport thrives in the armed forces, and over 30 new clubs prosper in Ipswich, Crawley, Coventry, Nottingham, Durham, Gloucester, Leicester and elsewhere.
Others in Greenwich, Maidstone and Bristol are on the horizon.
At professional levels, the comparision between league and union is revealing, for league wins hands-down in support.
What price profile when Super League attracts, on any weekend, far higher attendances than union’s Zurich Premiership?
Low union attendances
Widnes and Leigh, just two of 19 clubs in the Northern Ford Premeiership, have a higher crowd aggregate than the whole of the 15-a-side game’s second division.
What price profile when the whole of the Welsh/Scottish premier rugby union league can attract barely 20,000 supporters through the turnstiles on any given weekend?
Edinburgh and Glasgow can welcome 500 spectators on a wet Friday night – hardly a respectable attendance for amateur rugby league clubs Skirlaugh, Wath Brow or Woolston.
Few are unaware of the media hype and profile surrounding the union code’s international fixtures, and it is right that league is now adjusting its priorities in this direction.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/1387575.stm
January 22nd 2010 @ 11:10pm
big Kev said | January 22nd 2010 @ 11:10pm | Report comment
A couple of things that are quite ironic about this post;
1. the current situation is so far from this it’s almost embarrassing for League. The entire 4 nations tournament, held in England and France, drew a smaller crowd than any single Union test at Twickenham last November, that Guiness Premiership and Heineken Cup both had record attendances overtaking the far more established Super League despite the often conflicting 6 nations games drawing 60k – 80k per weekend.
2. You go on about England – care to mention any other countries? Lets look at France, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, South Africa, Argentina, italy, Romania yawn
January 23rd 2010 @ 12:12am
Siva Samoa said | January 23rd 2010 @ 12:12am | Report comment
are you for real spring and jim wilson ? why don’t you add up all the crowds from the guiness premiership, welsh & scottish magners league, english, welsh and scottish heineken cup/six nations/premiership/the championship/autumn tests/babarians ? it would be about three times more than the superleague/tri nations/challenge cup/Co-Operative Championship.
January 23rd 2010 @ 5:53pm
Dave said | January 23rd 2010 @ 5:53pm | Report comment
Im glad you like to live on past glory JW with all those old articles. Did you know the English Rugby Premiership was only started in the 90′s and was the games were attended only by a man and his dog then. Funny how the tide has turn Could you tell us what the average crowds of the current Guiness Premiership is ?
January 23rd 2010 @ 6:09pm
Working Class Rugger said | January 23rd 2010 @ 6:09pm | Report comment
I’m sorry Jim but using an article form 9 years ago doesn’t add wieght to your argument. Hell, it hasn’t been the Zurich Premiership for some time now. The simple fact of the matter is. Wasps vs Quins drew 76,000 on a col miserable Boxing Day fixture. There wasn’t a Cup on offer. Just a regular Guiness Premiership game. As much as it may hurt to admit it since the article you provided Union has superceded the ESL. Just look at the annual growth rate of both crowds and viewers to Rugby in the UK. Many clubs have upgraded their facilities to cope with the expansion.
In terms of Edinburgh and Glasgow. Well I watch a fair bit of the Magner’s League and I can assure you that the crowds have certainly grown well past 500. Not spectacular but healthy and once again growing.
January 23rd 2010 @ 6:20pm
Colin N said | January 23rd 2010 @ 6:20pm | Report comment
“What price profile when Super League attracts, on any weekend, far higher attendances than union’s Zurich Premiership?”
This is what I believe is clutching at straws because it has been proven that in terms of the average gate, the Guinness Premiership attracts higher crowds than the Super League nowadays. If anything it shows how much Rugby Union has grown as a spectator sport since then.
January 23rd 2010 @ 6:24pm
Dave said | January 23rd 2010 @ 6:24pm | Report comment
And the average will continue to go up once Leicester, Bath, Northampton and other Guiness clubs get their stadium up to date and a higher capacity. The French clubs are also looking at expanding their stadiums or built new ones.
January 23rd 2010 @ 10:26am
Corey said | January 23rd 2010 @ 10:26am | Report comment
I wouldn’t say the Soccer clubs in Australia are seeing success, Brisbane Roar will be looking for a new stadium shortly as they can’t afford to stay at Suncorp, where the Reds can. I don’t think Australia is that bad, we just have two very similar codes and Rugby League is more popular here. But Australia are always in the top 10 (and mainly in the top 5) in the world for Union. Union does need FTA, but this should be done by sacrificing money that they receive from Foxtel. So sell it cheaper to One HD or Channel 7, don’t sell it to Channel 9 because they will disadvantage it even more.
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:19pm
Jannerboyuk said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:19pm | Report comment
Seriously i genuinely want to see an actual measure of this. Under what terms? Numbers of countries or people? Participation or viewers. When you say this what do you actually mean and what is the evidence to back it up and how is it compared to other sports?
The top ten accumluative attendances for domestic attendances are for example, according to wiki, baseball, basketball, baseball again, american football and then five football comps. The top ten average attendances in a domestic league are american football, cricket, football, afl, football, baseball, canadian football, football, baseball.
Its only when we get to outdoor ‘events’ i.e. a one off game (remember still domestic) do we find a rugby union game mentioned 7th and 9th in 2009. Beaten by the NRL and two Gaelic games and the AFL final. One entry at number 4 in a list of 7 international club comps (not including leagues with clubs from different countries of course)
The international section is much better with 3 spots in 13 entries, 1st (six nations which means a lot less games then some of course but still impressive), 3rd and fourth (interrestingly the latest FIFA world cup listed is from 1994 held in the US!).
This is of course more then respectable, especially on the international front but unless you use a very different measurement i really fail to see how anyone can claim union as second to football.
January 26th 2010 @ 5:26pm
Realist said | January 26th 2010 @ 5:26pm | Report comment
“the fact is that Rugby is a global sport second only to Futbol. ” — Rickety Knees
Cricket is more globalised than your precious rugby union. So is tennis, golf, pool, basketball, swimming, athletics and volleyball.
January 26th 2010 @ 6:25pm
SA said | January 26th 2010 @ 6:25pm | Report comment
How is cricket Realist? how many teams play in the cricket world cup compared to the rugby world cup? surley that alone shows that rugby is a lot more globalised. and your not giving reaaly good examples, tennis, golf and swimming are not team sports. give it up mate
January 27th 2010 @ 2:18am
Realist said | January 27th 2010 @ 2:18am | Report comment
“How is cricket Realist? how many teams play in the cricket world cup compared to the rugby world cup? surley that alone shows that rugby is a lot more globalised.”
Err no, it doesn’t. All it shows is the rugby union world cup uses a format that allows more teams to compete during its final stages. It doesn’t reveal anything about the amount of countries that play the sport. In order to know this then you’d need to look at how many countries are associated with the sport’s governing body. The ICC has over 100 members, and some of them are in massive countries that have the potential to deliver huge economic returns — not like the tiny countries that take rugby union seriously. The ICC is bestowed with more money than the IRB can count because of cricket’s massive following in India. The popularity of cricket in highly-populated counatries such as Pakistan, India and Bangladesh mean it has more fans and a larger market, thus making it more globalised. Your sport can be “number one” in many tiny nations (IE. Wales and New Zealand — or tiny island nations that have barely enough people to make up a small city — but that hardly makes them globalised. Rugby union is only highly popular in a handfull of nations. THe bulk of the countries that “play it” hold it as a minority sport.
“your not giving reaaly good examples, tennis, golf and swimming are not team sports” — SA
Since when were we speaking exclusively about team sports? The person I responded to, Rickety Knees, said “Rugby is a global sport second only to Futbol” [sic]. That means he was speaking about all sports, including individual pursuits such as tennis.
Tennis, golf and swimming can be — and often are — played as team sports. Ever heard of doubles tennis or the relay events in swimming?
January 22nd 2010 @ 3:45pm
ilikelollies said | January 22nd 2010 @ 3:45pm | Report comment
Rickety knees, 2nd only to football, thats comedic gold.
Im sure fans of basketball (mens and womens), ice-hockey, baseball and cricket will find that comment hilarious
January 22nd 2010 @ 6:01pm
SA said | January 22nd 2010 @ 6:01pm | Report comment
How can you even compare these sports to rugby? Is ice-hockey played in africa, south america??? rugby is played in more countries than any of these sports, it is also th third biggest sporting event in the world. did the basketball, baseball world cup get over a billion viewers. unfortunalty you are putting rugby and league on an equal par and that is not the case, league comes in a very distant last around the world.
January 22nd 2010 @ 9:22pm
Jannerboyuk said | January 22nd 2010 @ 9:22pm | Report comment
What billion viewers? Can someone actually prove these figures instead of just stating them as fact. Even FIFA have been forced to downgrade their ‘estimates’ to a billion.
Baseball is a massive game in the us, mexico, cuba, japan, korea, just because its a sport not in the main expressed through national teams is irrelevant.
As a comedian noted t’other day on british TV “We were going to make rugby union the national sport after eng;land won the world cup, but we realised that only 8 countries gave a toss and 4 of them was us!”
That doesnt stop rugby union being the 2nd greatest sport in the world (after rugby league of course) i just dont understand why people buy into the IRB corporate bullshit. They even contradict themselves in their own press release, where a potential reach becomes an actual cumulative audience. http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/pressrelease/newsid=2022301.html
Of course the IRB are the smaller (relatively) corporate whore trying to emulate the bigger corporate whore FIFA who are themselves being forced to admit telling porkies:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/why-fifas-claim-of-one-billion-tv-viewers-was-a-quarter-right-438302.html
I can find one refrence to a viewing figure that doesnt appear to be a ‘reach’ accidentally slipping to an actual figure. (this quote mistakenly as far as i can see says this is an official report when it is in fact an independent report, please correct me if anyone knows better.)
“However, the extent of its popularity can be summed by a statistic in the official report of the International Rugby Board (IRB) published in July 2008, entitled ‘Putting Rugby First’. It pointed out that of the 33 million people who watched the 2007 Rugby 15-a-side World Cup Final on global television, 97 percent came from the eight founding members of the Board, that is to say the four nations in the British Isles, France, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia.”
http://www.aroundtherings.com/articles/view.aspx?id=33285
Even assuming that every fixture got the same viewing figure (absurd of course) then 48 fixtures gets 1.5billion. The reality is that its nowhere near that.
The daft thing is that it is quite clear that the IRB have made the world cup a fantastic, successful and moneymaking event which if handled well will develop into an even more massive event so why the IRB and the more hysterical unionistas need to BS i never quite understand.
January 22nd 2010 @ 9:47pm
Jannerboyuk said | January 22nd 2010 @ 9:47pm | Report comment
So does union have professional competitions in as many countries in europe as ice hockey? ice hockey has dozens of countries playing in several professional leagues. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ice_hockey_leagues#Major_professional
Again with the made up viewing figures. Show some bloody evidence, just for once.
January 22nd 2010 @ 10:53pm
Springs said | January 22nd 2010 @ 10:53pm | Report comment
Alright I was going to stay out of this Union thread until I read this. No Union and League is not equal popularity-wise globally but they are not equal domestic-wise either. In Australia League is more popular, whenever League fans say that Union fans straight away say ‘Who cares, we are a true global game, Australia doesn’t matter, blah blah blah annoying bias crap etc.’ but we never claim that League is bigger than Union globally. And stop saying you are a ‘true global game’, 110 countries or whatever is not the entire globe, League is played in fifty countries, yet we know that it is only seriously played between 10-15 countries. Union is probably only played seriously in about 25-35 countries or less.
And basketball is played in far more countries than Rugby, with far more casual players. Cricket has India which is around 1 billion people. Rugby is barely played at all in China/India/most of Asia which is around 1/3 to 1/2 of the world’s population.
I always hear Union fans calling Rugby World Cup (or in your case the entire sport) the 3rd biggest sporting event on the planet. I have never heard anyone say what the fourth biggest is. Winter Olympics? Cricket World Cup? Chinese Table Tennis Championships? The thing is, if the RWC is the 3rd biggest, than the League World Cup would be in the Top 10, and yes I mean Top 10. You say RWC is third biggest because of attendances and TV Ratings, well tell me what event (not competition) beats League World Cups in terms of attendances and TV Ratings. I know no baseball, basketball, ice hockey events would beat it, and I know the RLWC08 had a higher average attendance than the last Cricket World Cup.
League is nowhere near last on the global scale, in fact I would say it is very close to Union. If you try and say Cricket, ping Pong, baseball etc is bigger because of the countries who play them (India, China, Japan, USA, Korea) have higher populations I can say the same thing about Union.
January 23rd 2010 @ 1:22am
Siva Samoa said | January 23rd 2010 @ 1:22am | Report comment
you just said rugby league is played in 50 countries and only 15 are serious and then had a pop at rugby union with maybe 25-35 or less. thats almost putting both codes the same. i want you to tell us which 50 countries playe rugby league first and i’ll provided you with information that rugby is played seriously in most countries who are members of the irb.
league world cup is not even in the same league as the rugby world cup spring in regards to everything like crowds, money, tv ratings, profit, international visitors and so on.
January 27th 2010 @ 2:28am
Realist said | January 27th 2010 @ 2:28am | Report comment
” i’ll provided you with information that rugby is played seriously in most countries who are members of the irb” — Siva Samoa
I guess that’s why the bottom 90% of the IRB’s members would get flogged by 50-200 points if they played against the top 10 nations…
Seriously, the inability for the IRB’s buttom 90% of member nations to compete with the top 10 says everything we need to know about the global state of the game.
January 23rd 2010 @ 10:37am
big Kev said | January 23rd 2010 @ 10:37am | Report comment
you gotta be kidding right?
Professional rugby union comp in:
SA, NZ, Australia, Japan, England, France, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Italy
Well organised long standing amateur rugby union comp:
USA, Canada, Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Romania, Argentina, Russia, Georgia, Hong Kong, Sri Lanka, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga +++++++
Professional 7s Rugby”
53 countries when I last looked
Professional rugby league comp in:
Australia, , England + 1 team in NZ, France & Wales
Well organised long standing amateur rugby league comp:
PNG, NZ, France …. any others with more than 2 or 3 teams?
January 24th 2010 @ 10:18am
Jim Wilson said | January 24th 2010 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Wrong Big Kev
Japan & Italy don’t have professional RU competitions. They have competitions that have some (full-time) professional players – big difference.
Outside the UK & Ireland France is the only country with a full-time professional RU competition in the NH.
Rugby League
Lebanon & Cook Islands are a couple I can think of at the mo.
Here’s some interesting news about RL in Lebanon
http://www.rlef.eu.com/news.php?id=1287
January 24th 2010 @ 10:36am
big Kev said | January 24th 2010 @ 10:36am | Report comment
are you for real Jim? You are clutching at straws.
Are you really suggesting that somehow Japanese and italian rugby is not worthy of being on this list (they most certainly are professional leagues) yet somehow RL in Lebanon is a professional league, and Cook Islands too! Mate there are 50 countries with a bigger, more popular more established Union competition than those 2 – aren’t you embarrassed to have to use those 2 as examples of the growing global appeal of your game?
January 24th 2010 @ 11:02am
Jim Wilson said | January 24th 2010 @ 11:02am | Report comment
My mistake.
I didn’t wish to convey the impression that Lebanon & the Cook Islands had full time profession RL competitions.
I was replying to the question in your last sentence about RL competitions.
& yes I am suggesting Japan & Italy’s RU aren’t worthy of being called full time professional competitions.
I bet they don’t charge admission to their games?
Are their crowd numbers such that that they would cover the cost of one player if they did charge admision?
January 24th 2010 @ 11:22am
big Kev said | January 24th 2010 @ 11:22am | Report comment
and 10,000 to a Roosters game at $12 per head (and that’s just adults) pays the salary of exactly which player?
They certainly do charge entry to their games but mostly TV money and commercial interests pay for the players salaries. Italian clubs play in the Heineken Cup as well as the Super 10 they have a 2 division Campionati Nazionali and cup competition the Coppa Italia. There are 718 rugby clubs within Italy. These clubs support 73,419 registered male players, as well as 8,118 registered female players. Many teams are either from Veneto or Lombardy in the North of Italy.
January 24th 2010 @ 11:23am
rugbyfuture said | January 24th 2010 @ 11:23am | Report comment
JW they charge, most of the expenses are covered through the heavy amounts of money the sponsors are willing to fork out into japan.
rugby in italy im not sure how they cover it but the amateur competitions are actually in the a1 and a2 series rather than the super 10
January 27th 2010 @ 11:01pm
Realist said | January 27th 2010 @ 11:01pm | Report comment
“There are 718 rugby clubs within Italy. These clubs support 73,419 registered male players, as well as 8,118 registered female players. Many teams are either from Veneto or Lombardy in the North of Italy.”
How popular is it outside of those areas?
January 25th 2010 @ 9:57am
Corey said | January 25th 2010 @ 9:57am | Report comment
USA, which will be starting a professional comp in 2011. Jamaica, Russia, Ukraine.
January 25th 2010 @ 10:08am
Big Kev said | January 25th 2010 @ 10:08am | Report comment
dream on buddy…the USA for FFS there is not ONE RL team in the USA and you see fit to include it in your list of “professional rugby league comps”
FFS there are over 500 rugby union clubs in the USA and I haven’t even included the USA and a semi-pro comp “the Rugby Super League” with 18 teams and over 15 years history.
just shows you the real difference between the global reach of the 2 sports. One is real and the other is pie in the sky!
January 25th 2010 @ 10:15am
Big Kev said | January 25th 2010 @ 10:15am | Report comment
and same again for Russia, again;
Popularity
Although association football is the most popular spectator sport in Russia, rugby has been growing in terms of player base, spectator interest and media coverage in recent years.
In 2007 Moscow made an unsuccessful bid to host the 2009 Rugby World Cup Sevens. It was announced in February of 2009 that the Rugby Union of Russia would again bid to host the Rugby World Cup Sevens, in 2013.
The main club competition in Russia is the Professional Rugby League, a fully-professional competition. Crowds vary for these club matches, although 10,000 are usually present for the derby fixtures. The competing clubs are VVA-Podmoskovye from Моnino in Moscow Oblast and Slava from Moscow, Enisei-STM and Krasny Yar both from Krasnoyarsk, RC Penza, RC Novokuznetsk, and Universitet from Chita Oblast. There also Top League and First League below the Professional Rugby League.
The Six Nations B, also known as the European Nations Cup (ENC) is similar to the Six Nations Championship. Russia finished third in 2001 and 2001-2002 competitions and second in the 2007-2008 competition. The Nations Cup was introduced by the IRB in 2006, in which Russia, Portugal along with Argentina A and Italy A competed in Portugal.
January 25th 2010 @ 10:08pm
Sam el Perro said | January 25th 2010 @ 10:08pm | Report comment
Kev: another factual error. There are rugby league teams in the US. You have been caught out in another falsehood, I’m afraid.
January 25th 2010 @ 10:13pm
big Kev said | January 25th 2010 @ 10:13pm | Report comment
Yeah Perro – it’s called poetic license. Whoop de do 11 league teams in the USA v 500 or so Union teams and you guys get all excited and jump up and down.
League is a pimple on Union’s arse. Just saw the movie Invictus – let me know when League can have such a huge impact on the lives of so many people and we can talk.
January 25th 2010 @ 10:39pm
Sam el Perro said | January 25th 2010 @ 10:39pm | Report comment
Kev, you seem to have a response for each time you make a false claim. Poetic licence is fine, but it probably requires some poetry to go with it. Your sentence “the USA for FFS there is not ONE RL team in the USA” does appear to meant quite literally.
If you think it will advance the cause of other rugby supporters on these forums to
(a) make false statements to back up whatever claim you are making, then
(b) claim that it was “poetic license [sic]”
then by all means do so, but I can’t imagine that other people here who are trying to have a constructive discussion (on both sides of the fence) will thing that you are adding much to The Roar.
How about you take a deep breath, regather and we can start the discussion over again without the need to make things up? Deal?
January 25th 2010 @ 10:44pm
big Kev said | January 25th 2010 @ 10:44pm | Report comment
Perro, why do you post on a rugby forum? What are you contributing? You never respond to anything other that what you think is a slight on league.
Why did you not comment on the absurd post by Corey in response to a discussion about serious RL and RU competitions around the world?
“USA, which will be starting a professional comp in 2011. Jamaica, Russia, Ukraine.” laughable!
You probably gave him the +1!
What about the even more ridiculous notion that Touch is League? No comment from you on that? You have zero credibility. get off the Union forum.
January 25th 2010 @ 11:00pm
Sam el Perro said | January 25th 2010 @ 11:00pm | Report comment
Kev, you appear upset that I have caught you out in serial falsehoods. That is understandable, and I won’t hold it against you. As for the notion that I am somehow a league “booster”, please find a single post that I have made that substantiates that claim. I won’t elevate this implication of yours to the status of outright lie, but it is certainly untrue. No surprises there.
As for what have I contributed to a rugby forum (and strangely enough I thought The Roar was “Your sports opinion”, not just “Sports Opinion You Agree With”) I would say that my comments have followed down two paths.
Firstly, correcting outright falsehoods. It is down this path that you and I have continued to cross swords. Secondly, for an example of other comments I have made, feel free to look at the thread discussing looking forward to the 2010 or 2011 seasons.
As for Corey’s comment that you wish me to take umbrage with, I am afraid I cannot. This is because:
- he did not say that there was a US professional league in place, merely that one was starting. I cannot contradict this because his statement is true: http://www.rugbyleague.com/rugby-league-news/974
- Jamaica – I cannot contradict that there is a competition in Jamaica because his statement was true: http://jamaicarugbyleague.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=21
- Ukraine – I cannot contradict that there is a competition in Ukraine because his statement was true: http://www.rugbyleague.org.ua/
As you can see, it is only you that are getting caught out telling lies. Enough. I have given you an opportunity to put this behind you and start again. You are only interested in abuse. Beyond pointing out what falsehoods you publish, there is no further point responding to you. I will leave it to others to give you the thumbs down.
January 25th 2010 @ 11:04pm
Sam el Perro said | January 25th 2010 @ 11:04pm | Report comment
Kev, you appear upset that I have caught you out in serial falsehoods. That is understandable, and I won’t hold it against you. As for the notion that I am somehow a league “booster”, please find a single post that I have made that substantiates that claim. I won’t elevate this implication of yours to the status of outright lie, but it is certainly untrue. No surprises there.
As for what have I contributed to a rugby forum (and strangely enough I thought The Roar was “Your sports opinion”, not just “Sports Opinion You Agree With”) I would say that my comments have followed down two paths.
Firstly, correcting outright falsehoods. It is down this path that you and I have continued to cross swords. Secondly, for an example of other comments I have made, feel free to look at the thread discussing looking forward to the 2010 or 2011 seasons.
January 25th 2010 @ 11:11pm
rugbyfuture said | January 25th 2010 @ 11:11pm | Report comment
Kev is right though perro, you do tend to swing further to the league side, but atleast you try and respond in mind and not only idiocy, i would like to imagine that you vote on things that deserve them rather than targeting factoids and accounts.
January 25th 2010 @ 11:17pm
big Kev said | January 25th 2010 @ 11:17pm | Report comment
Sorry Perro that doesnt wash. Firstly what you call “inaccuracies” mean those that you don’t agree with. You still haven’t shown me an example of a Union administrator mentioning they are going to sign a rugby league player. Sending a link about Vatuvei that is, I guarantee, nothing more than press speculation fuelled by his agent trying to get him a better deal…. yup that’s “accurate”!
Should I go back and list all the inaccuracies you have ignored?
From Jim: “Why shouldn’t Touch be classified as an abbreviated form of RL.”
no comments from you on this pealer
And this gem from Spring: “I always hear Union fans calling Rugby World Cup (or in your case the entire sport) the 3rd biggest sporting event on the planet. I have never heard anyone say what the fourth biggest is. Winter Olympics? Cricket World Cup? Chinese Table Tennis Championships? The thing is, if the RWC is the 3rd biggest, than the League World Cup would be in the Top 10, and yes I mean Top 10. You say RWC is third biggest because of attendances and TV Ratings, well tell me what event (not competition) beats League World Cups in terms of attendances and TV Ratings. I know no baseball, basketball, ice hockey events would beat it, and I know the RLWC08 had a higher average attendance than the last Cricket World Cup.”
What a ridiculous, inaccurate post.
So lets look at which “inaccuracies” you like to report on… ones that “big up” league? No. Ones that put Union in a positive light? Yup. Very plain to see.
League is nowhere near last on the global scale, in fact I would say it is very close to Union. If you try and say Cricket, ping Pong, baseball etc is bigger because of the countries who play them (India, China, Japan, USA, Korea) have higher populations I can say the same thing about Union.
You still havent shown me a single instance of a rugby administrator saying they were going to sign league players as you
January 25th 2010 @ 11:17pm
Sam el Perro said | January 25th 2010 @ 11:17pm | Report comment
I am probably just swinging a certain way because of some of the things that I am responding to. I just gets under my skin when untruths or vilification are posted. You will note that I am definitely not getting on the Lismore thread (which had some interesting match info, IMHO) and bagging people out about crowd sizes of anything else. And that’s the thing, the discussion is better when we are discussing the sport, whatever sport, in the real world, not just inventing rubbish to justify our convictions or vilifying followers of other sports to feel better about out choices. Hence the fact that I won’t be using the words “rah-rah” or “mungo”. I don’t think they add much to a debate, but they immediately set the person called one, or the other, on edge/
Imagine a thread about the potential for a great Super 14 season, or NRL season, that just had people discussing the sport without getting bogged down in mud slinging? Imagine!
January 25th 2010 @ 11:22pm
Sam el Perro said | January 25th 2010 @ 11:22pm | Report comment
Kev, re: the administrators comment. I have addressed that several times. See the earlier comments. I believe you referred to them as “disingenuous bulls**t” so you probably don’t agree. So be it.
Re: League on a global scale. I don’t think that I have made any comments about League on a global scale (although I did respond to you in on this topic, but a few links meant the the response got lost in moderation). I certainly haven’t made any claims on this front. As for responding to comments that others have made, you and others have already done so, in some cases with some damning retorts. It would be a waste of bandwidth for me to chip in in those circumstances.
January 25th 2010 @ 11:30pm
big Kev said | January 25th 2010 @ 11:30pm | Report comment
No Perro, you didn’t respond to it. You misquoted me and never answered by question. You cant give me a quote, because there isn’t one! You confuse press speculation with facts. Back in your box
January 23rd 2010 @ 10:38am
big Kev said | January 23rd 2010 @ 10:38am | Report comment
14m people in England watched the 2003 World Cup FInal – I would say that is more than the total number of people who have ever watched league over 100 years!
January 23rd 2010 @ 11:12am
Dogs Of War said | January 23rd 2010 @ 11:12am | Report comment
Well Kev, move to england. Then you will have someone to talk to around the water cooler.
To be honest, I think everybody was starting to think you were a bit weird mumbling to yourself
January 23rd 2010 @ 4:31pm
Dave said | January 23rd 2010 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
You said you like rugby union as well DOW. I haven’t seen a post from you to suggest you do. Why are you pretending ?
January 23rd 2010 @ 8:41pm
Siva Samoa said | January 23rd 2010 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
when your ready springs . please give us those 50 rugby league countries with local competitions.
January 30th 2010 @ 8:15pm
Springs said | January 30th 2010 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
Sorry Siva I’ve been away for the past week.
Here they are:
Countries with pro comps:
England
Australia
Countries with pro teams/semi-pro comps:
France
Wales
New Zealand
Papua New Guinea
USA
Russia
Countries with amateur comps:
Catalonia (France/Spain)
Cook Islands
Czech Republic
Fiji
Germany
Greece
Ireland
Italy
Jamaica
Lebanon
Morocco
Netherlands
Samoa
Scotland
Serbia
Solomon Islands
South Africa
Tonga
Ukraine
UAE
Countries with 9s/7s comps:
Argentina
Denmark (Scandinavia 9s)
Malta
Norway (Scandinavia 9s)
Countries who have national teams/amateur clubs:
American Samoa
Austria
Belgium
Estonia
Hungary
Japan
Latvia
New Caledonia
Niue
Portugal
Sweden
Tokelau
Countries with ‘observer’ status in the RLIF:
Canada
Cuba
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Moldova
Pakistan
Panama
Spain
Saudi Arabia
Tuvalu
33 countries with some kind of national competition.
12 countries who have clubs playing in inter-country comps and play in international competitons.
10 countires who play Rugby League or have played Rugby League but do not or no longer have a national team or national competition.
January 24th 2010 @ 12:30am
hutch said | January 24th 2010 @ 12:30am | Report comment
once again, the rugby ‘union’ world cup is not the worlds 3rd biggest sporting event, and it does not attract anywhere near 1 billion tv viewers. the rugby types in the press (and these boards) like to throw these figures around, but the fact is that they are lies.
January 24th 2010 @ 12:52am
Dave said | January 24th 2010 @ 12:52am | Report comment
once again, the rugby ‘union’ world cup is not the worlds 3rd biggest sporting event
Says you.
January 24th 2010 @ 1:58am
rugbyfuture said | January 24th 2010 @ 1:58am | Report comment
like the nrl being the biggest “rugby” competition in the world?
January 24th 2010 @ 12:47pm
big Kev said | January 24th 2010 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
yes it is and you are right the TV audience was not 1bn, it was far higher than that – cumulative audience of 4bn actually
January 25th 2010 @ 9:59am
Corey said | January 25th 2010 @ 9:59am | Report comment
you’re kidding, 2/3 of the world watched the Union, albeit over 50% of the world do not own a tv, and I know most of them weren’t there at the game. So how do u get that figure?
January 25th 2010 @ 10:12am
Big Kev said | January 25th 2010 @ 10:12am | Report comment
can you read Corey? For crying out loud it says “cumulative”. Do you not understand this? Working Class Rugger Explained it on this very page. Do you really think all 20m Aussies watched the NRL this year? No dude the figures are “cumulative”….
come on League fans trawling through Union discussion, vote Corey up and me down on this why don’t ya. Bunch of tossers. Go back to your own discussion pages, surely there are enough of you seeing as though RL is so popular.
January 26th 2010 @ 7:14am
Dogs Of War said | January 26th 2010 @ 7:14am | Report comment
Big Kev, if 4 billion viewers is true, that means that each of the 42 matches had an average of 95,238,095. From what I understand, not even the final had that many viewers, so unless there are certain people rewatching the matches over and over (big kev?) while the IRB counts them, then the IRB is shown to be lying.
January 26th 2010 @ 7:24am
Dave said | January 26th 2010 @ 7:24am | Report comment
DOW. We all know what cumulative audience means ? How are the Warathas going in their pre-season games ?
January 26th 2010 @ 7:44am
Dogs Of War said | January 26th 2010 @ 7:44am | Report comment
I don’t have Foxtel Dave. So it’s only what I read in the Newspapers, though will go down to the pub to watch when the season kicks off. Heard they played some running rugby, which is a lot easier to watch.
January 27th 2010 @ 2:47am
Realist said | January 27th 2010 @ 2:47am | Report comment
“Go back to your own discussion pages”
Tell that to Siva.
January 23rd 2010 @ 4:15pm
Dave1 said | January 23rd 2010 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
“Im sure fans of basketball (mens and womens), ice-hockey, baseball and cricket will find that comment hilarious”
we do
January 22nd 2010 @ 4:42pm
rugbyfuture said | January 22nd 2010 @ 4:42pm | Report comment
unfortunately for all you leagueys and aussie rules blokes who somehow staggered onto this article even though you complain about the efforts of myself and other ruggers going onto yours, this may be a bit too complex for you to understand so i will try and straighten it out for you.
there is a current low in rugby which is undeniable in terms of tv viewing figures. because of the mid range figures previously had the sport was very much suitable ot be a pay tv staple. however once a sport is either low enough in terms of rankings to get bought up cheap or high enough in rankings to get bought up expensive, it becomes a stable part of free to air. since rugby is at such a low, it may find a chance to break into the free to air market. the money not injected into rugby could easily remanifest itself through the reserve fund the ARU have kept over the last few years which has been built up again, to a reasonable amount since JON’s return. either way their is a most likely chance that rugby will build itself up again, but if it likes, it has a chance, whether it be primetime or not, to build back up on free to air and evolve a greater following through that medium. Code war propoganda or not, propoganda has the effect of fooling the greater majority, hence its use over millenia.
January 22nd 2010 @ 5:00pm
Dogs Of War said | January 22nd 2010 @ 5:00pm | Report comment
So you want to be like Basketball? It’s made Basketball a real force in Australia, especially Sydney!
January 22nd 2010 @ 7:43pm
chris said | January 22nd 2010 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
Rugby Union in Australia seemed to have the peak years between 1996-2004 then ‘O’Neil got stabbed in the back for bringing the game into a profit and Union started to fall apart.
John’O'Neil is like a Muhammed Ali when he thought Leon Spinks.
January 22nd 2010 @ 9:54pm
Jim Wilson said | January 22nd 2010 @ 9:54pm | Report comment
Union was always going to come out of the blocks fast as soon as they became openly professional.
However, they couldn’t have their cake & eat it too. While they were supposedly amateur they could discriminate or institutions where they had some influence such as the armed services, educational institutions couldn’t sustain their discrimination against RL.
The best thing that has happen to RL is that union now is openly professional IMO.
January 23rd 2010 @ 12:18am
Siva Samoa said | January 23rd 2010 @ 12:18am | Report comment
the best thing to happen to rugby union is going fully professional . is just going from strenghts to strenghts everywhere. australia is on the downside but once the wallabies and the aussies s15 start winning it would go up again.
this is a sport that was hardly shown on tv in australia and couldn’t even paid its power bills in the 70′s and 80′s.
January 23rd 2010 @ 10:08am
macavity said | January 23rd 2010 @ 10:08am | Report comment
You assume the wallabies and s15 teams WILL start winning again.
Rugby was much smaller in Oz than NZ and SA to begin with, and has only gotten proportionally smaller and more irrelevant….. and the teams have sunk as well.
The ARU is down to pretty much relying on the arrival of a Rugby messiah or 10, and is then relying on them to not chase cash overseas.
Without a stellar crop of young players coming through, they aren’t going anywhere. And the vast majority of suitable young talent is already playing one of the other football codes.
January 23rd 2010 @ 2:46pm
Siva Samoa said | January 23rd 2010 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
rugby was way smaller in oz than nz and sa in the past. now rugby has grown in australia its now competing against against the all blacks and springboks and their provincial teams also match the other sanzar teams.
there amny rugby union talents coming through and many kiwi’s coming over to live and play rugby over here. the aussie teams will rise again .
January 23rd 2010 @ 5:05pm
Dave said | January 23rd 2010 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
Your saying the Wallabies and any Super 15 Australian teams will never to well ever again ? Where can I find information ?
January 22nd 2010 @ 7:44pm
ilikelollies said | January 22nd 2010 @ 7:44pm | Report comment
looked through my post, didnt mention league genius (sic)
Basketball, 2nd most popular sport in the world easily. 3rd is way back
Ice Hockey, popular in Russia, Usa and Canada and northern Europe. Combined pop. of the first 3 countries alone, 700,000,000. A shitty suburb in Moscow has more people who follow Ice Hockey then the combined pop. of South Pacific, White South Africa, New Zealand and small areas of Australia.
baseball – All USA, central amercia, Japan, Korea, China. Again, populations of those countries dwarfs the countries we’re union has any resonance.
Your contention that the Union WC is the 3rd biggest sports event in the world is laughable, getting 1 billion viewers even more so. I dont know if roar will give me enough space to list the ones ahead in viewing audience and cache but heres a few.
Euro football championships
South American football championships
Basketball World titles
U-20 world youth cup
NFL Superbowl
African Nations Cup (you know, in the sport Africans actually support)
World Athletic titles
NBA Finals
January 26th 2010 @ 5:33am
keba said | January 26th 2010 @ 5:33am | Report comment
the sport africans actually support ahhhhh you make this black boy laugh….. nigeria, senegal, ghana and cmaeroon are not the whole of africa my friend.
January 22nd 2010 @ 11:12pm
Springs said | January 22nd 2010 @ 11:12pm | Report comment
Why is it that an article can only get comments if it attracts a code war? I don’t know what attracted League fans to this or why Union fans decided to deride League yet again to make themselves feel better.
On the concept rugbyfuture I think it would be a good thing if Super 15 or whatever can get on to free-to-air without clashing with League/AFL. Fans should be able to watch their chosen sport for free and is exactly why many League fans want the Storm to be on prime-time in Melbourne and other League games to be prime-time around the country. Why not?
January 22nd 2010 @ 11:16pm
Jim Wilson said | January 22nd 2010 @ 11:16pm | Report comment
Big Kev
The best ratings for the BC last year in the UK were about 106,000. It was all down hill from there.
Go to the BARB site.
http://www.barb.co.uk/report/weeklyTopProgrammesOverview/?report=weeklyterrestrial&requesttimeout=500
I don’t think any other of the BC games made it into the Top 20 Lists. Have a look they were played on the 18 July, 22 August &19 September. I can’t remember the Japan games date.
Feel free to give me details on other countries ratings. I can’t find any.
January 23rd 2010 @ 12:23am
Siva Samoa said | January 23rd 2010 @ 12:23am | Report comment
what game are you on about and who are the bc ?
January 23rd 2010 @ 10:42am
big Kev said | January 23rd 2010 @ 10:42am | Report comment
OK so that is in the UK, how about in NZ? South Africa? France? Argentina? USA? PI? Japan? Let me tell you now the total viewership for a Bledisloe is more than the SoO or RL grandfinal. Without a doubt.
January 23rd 2010 @ 11:10am
Dogs Of War said | January 23rd 2010 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Well they are some grand claims. How about proving it? Because I have no doubt that most people in other countries are not interested in a contest between Australia and NZ. Well not enough that would make up the difference between what the NRL grand final rates, and the biggest International match Australia play.
January 23rd 2010 @ 12:44pm
Jim Wilson said | January 23rd 2010 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Kev
The BC cup when it is televised world wide is restricted to Pay TV. Only 1% of the Japanese population has acess to Pay TV according to Eddie Jones.
One of those BC games last year rated 27,000 in the UK. You were given the BARB site which collects these numbers for the UK.
You can’t produce any evidence from a reliable source for the ratings from any other country. Until you do you should refrain making such claims.
BTW it would appear that each of the BCs rated world wide of not much more than a million or about a third of each of the SOOs & NRL GF. Or about the same as a run-of-mill Friday Night Football RL or AFL game.
January 23rd 2010 @ 8:27pm
Siva Samoa said | January 23rd 2010 @ 8:27pm | Report comment
What about your claims that rugby league is the second spectators sports next to soccer in the UK JW ?
January 22nd 2010 @ 11:26pm
Jim Wilson said | January 22nd 2010 @ 11:26pm | Report comment
Big Kev
Tells us about Romania>
January 23rd 2010 @ 12:25am
Siva Samoa said | January 23rd 2010 @ 12:25am | Report comment
what do you want to know about romania jw ? luckly we made the right decision to stick with italy because their pay tv have brought rights for the rugby world cup tournaments and six nations.
January 23rd 2010 @ 9:32am
Ian Noble said | January 23rd 2010 @ 9:32am | Report comment
Trying to take a dispassionate view on the relative merits of both rugby codes, if you were a TV executive who was looking to invest in either code over the next five years where would you put your money.
In Europe, the best international club cup competition is the Heineken Cup, the best annual International tournament is the 6Ns. The best league in France, is the top 14 and it is a toss up between GP and ESL in England. The problem with professional RL in England it is predominately a sport centred on the M62 and has struggled to expand elsewhere in England. Professional RU is strong in the south, west and midlands of England and although being weaker in the North has a greater national coverage. Both codes have grown in terms of participation in Europe, of which RU has attracted the greater number. In Wales, Scotland and Ireland there is no competition to RU’s Magners League.
In the SH, the 3Ns shortly to become 4Ns is the strongest international annual tournament, with the NRL probably being as strong as the Currie Cup in SA with ANZ cup and the Aussie equivalent following on behind.
It is difficult to compare like with like but if we were to look at say FTA in the UK, on the BBC the 6Ns attracts between 5/7M for each televised game whereas the RL Challenge Cup Final attracted 1.2M.
Is this conclusive, of course not both codes are guilty of hyping their sport and each set of committed fans will slag each other of, claiming their game is the greatest; as an basketball fan or NFL fan would say about their sport. The acid test is where would you put your money is see real growth over the next five years. Rugby regardless of either code is still a minority sport and battles hard to hold its own in Europe. However where RU gains over RL is that it’s competitions at club and region level are more international and as a spectator sport it is growing steadly. Internationally there is no comparison and with the introduction of rugby 7s into the Olympics RU is well ahead. RU also through it’s background of being closely linked to universities, the financial institutions and in general the higher echelon of business circles potentially has the greatest spending power. It is also an area where demographically there is the greatest potential of growth not only to attract sponsors and advertisers but also sell satelitte dishes, why quite simply the majority of RU fans in the UK are not followers of football and probably would not have a dish.
RL in Europe will still retain it’s core support but the signs are that it is going backward. Many of it’s stadia are outdated, The RLF recently have warned some clubs about their commitment when winning the franchise to build or upgrade their stadia, attendances have been dropping. Whilst it maintains it viewing figures primarily because if it’s switch to summer, it has not been able to grow in spite of the switch when it is the only kid on the block. Is cricket really competition to RL? 20/20 may be but what else?
There you have it the choice between a market that probably has reached maturity and a market where there is untapped potential. I think I know where I would put my money.
JW
As a matter of interest open your hyper link and look at the top 10 list and scroll down to Sky Sports 2 and you will see that the big game between Quins and Wasps at Twickenham on Sunday 27/12 attracted 203K viewers( 76K at the stadium). Reasonable figures bearing in mind it went head to head with football on ESPN. If you also look at previous weeks top 10 the HC games have been attracting circa 200k. The figures this weekend will be different as SKY are showing two games from the each group simultaneously as it is the final round of group games and presumably the viewing figures will be split between both games.
January 23rd 2010 @ 1:16pm
Jim Wilson said | January 23rd 2010 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Ian
What sort of TV Ratings did this match attract:
“London Irish dropped more home points as Worcester recorded a third straight GUINNESS PREMIERSHIP draw in a scrappy affair at the Madejski Stadium Reading
Attendance 8,561
http://www.guinnesspremiership.com/rugby/12337.php
January 23rd 2010 @ 5:02pm
Dave said | January 23rd 2010 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
Why would you ask for TV ratings for that particilar match JW ?
January 23rd 2010 @ 6:55pm
Bay35Pablo said | January 23rd 2010 @ 6:55pm | Report comment
Nice one Jim. Ian gives one of the best posts on this thread, and you manage to try to ignore the 643 good points he raised.
What’s the median (not average) SL crowd attendance by comparison.
76K for Waps etc is huge, but a one off, as most GP crwods are much lower.
January 23rd 2010 @ 11:24pm
Ian Noble said | January 23rd 2010 @ 11:24pm | Report comment
JW
I don’t know if it was televised, but not surprised by the gate as Worcester have been struggling and as proven are not much of a draw. Today London Irish play Leinster at Twickenham in the Heineken Cup and the gate will be circa 40K. It will be televised and goes head to head not only with an FA Cup tie on FTA (ITV) but the other game in the group. It will be interesting to see. Unfortunately as far as I am aware there is no means of noting the number of viewers in Ireland, where I suspect the real volume will be. If anybody know of viewer research in Ireland …..?