By Ben Somerford
February 7th 2010 @ 4:02am
Related coverage
Can NZ accommodate a second A-League team?
Wellington Phoenix's Tim Brown celebrates after scoring against Melbourne Victory during their round 6 match, played at the Ethihad stadium in Melbourne, Sunday, Sept 13, 2009. Phoenix drew the match with Victory 1-1 after full time.(AAP Image/Joe Castro)
After almost 20,000 fans packed out Christchurch’s AMI Stadium for last weekend’s Wellington-Adelaide clash, many pundits have been asking whether the South Island’s largest city should be a site for future A-League expansion.
Last Saturday’s brilliant crowd turn-out definitely suggests there is an appetite for football in Christchurch, and with a population of just under 400,000 people, it would be understandable for the FFA to have some interest in tapping into the market.
Indeed, the attendance figure of 19,258 at AMI Stadium, ignoring the fanatical Melbourne crowds, is the second-best in this A-League season to date, only bettered by Brisbane’s Round 1 M1-Derby number of 19,902.
I dare say, the FFA have taken notice. The figure certainly stands out over the A-League expansion hopefuls from Canberra, who only managed a pair of 5,000-odd crowds for two fixtures this season.
But, of course, the FFA will be reluctant to make any significant moves into ‘the Land of the Long White Cloud’ due to the AFC’s stance on Wellington’s participation in the Australian top flight.
And that is the lingering issue which will thwart anything being put in stone… for now at least. After all, there is hope for a resolution on this topic in the future.
In the meantime, the FFA and the Wellington Phoenix, for the good of New Zealand football, should persist with an annual pilgrimage down to Christchurch.
That would be the ideal way to test the waters in Christchurch and ascertain whether or not a club could actually be sustainable in rugby-mad Canterbury anyway.
After all, a Christchurch franchise would need their own version of Nix owner Terry Serepisos (who has been so crucial to Wellington’s success) to start up a bid, and no one in their right mind would do so without more experimentation and trial matches.
Anyway, I’ve been lucky enough to spend a fair bit of time in New Zealand’s South Island in the past and this week I got in touch with a few old folk from Christchurch who informed me last Saturday was quite the occasion around town.
Indeed, there were a number of mitigating circumstances which built up the occasion, especially following New Zealand’s qualification for their second ever World Cup and first in 28 years, which really has bolstered football’s profile across ‘the ditch’, at least for the next few months.
As well, Wellington are on the verge of claiming their first ever A-League finals berth and with an army of colourful supporters travelling down from the North Island, there was every reason to join the party.
And, of course, the novelty of the opportunity to see an A-League game, I’m informed, certainly had an effect too.
Nevertheless, Christchurch is a town with a passion for sport and their local rugby union club, the Crusaders, are almost the Manchester United of Super 14.
Whilst in Christchurch, I distinctly remember my surprise when walking the streets at the amount of Crusaders paraphernalia being sported like some kind of fashion statement. And no, it wasn’t matchday, it was an everyday occurrence!
There’s no doubt the South Island city offers a fresh market and with that opportunities.
But those opportunities aren’t just limited to the A-League, but also the Phoenix who can spread their brand, as well as NZF, who’d love another pathway for young Kiwi footballers.
Indeed, there’s plenty of vested interests in the Christchurch market, but we shouldn’t get too carried away and the sustainability of such a project needs more experimentation.
And, of course, the AFC’s stance on Oceania confederation clubs competing in an Asian league won’t go away anytime soon.
But, despite the AFC’s stance, A-League matches can still be played in New Zealand, so in the meantime it makes plenty of sense for annual games in Christchurch.
Not only will an annual Christchurch match provide a good measure for future expansion, but going on Saturday’s showing, it’ll make for quite the occasion and occasions are just what the A-League needs.
Get Australia's best Football opinion emailed daily.
Like this content? Buzz it up!
Free Email updates:
Our daily emails are only sent if there is content for the sport or that author. You can subscribe to multiple daily emails; or get the daily Roar email with all our content in it. We value privacy. More...
(70)
Both the sydney clubs seem to be pitching for the more committed...
Mr cheese said | February 7th 2010 @ 4:58am | Report comment
Just a question: what will be the NZ people / NZ Media reaction if ( when… ) their team takes a good hiding at this summer’s World Cup ?
Will they just shrug their shoulders and accept that this was inevitable, or will it do a bit of damage to the nascent success of the sport in New Zealand ???
People generally like watching a winning team, je suppose, though 80,000 Italians did visit the San Siro to watch their ’struggling’ ( i.e. rubbish ) Rugby team lose to the All Blacks.
katzilla said | February 7th 2010 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
Yeah but im sure you’d fill any stadium in NZ to see Brazil give the All Whites a Whoopin too Cheese.
Italy wouldnt fill San Siro for any other team.
allblackfan said | February 7th 2010 @ 3:55pm | Report comment
maybe not; it would depend if the ABs were playing at the same time!
jake said | February 7th 2010 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
Mr Cheese get over your self! we know our place on the world football stage. Getting to the world cup was a huge achievement in itself. The three pool games ill be some of the biggest party’s NZ will see this year.Win, loose, draw or hiding our presence at the worlds biggest sporting stage will increase the profile of the sport in NZ. All Black fan id rather watch the All Whites cop a 6-0 hiding than a snooze-fest game of rugby any day!!
Ora said | February 7th 2010 @ 5:57pm | Report comment
I think the frustration of the English football team doing the choke like the ABs at their respective worldcups is getting to Cheesey
some would say a rather Cheesey smile!!
It’s alright son we will party like no other take our whippings on the chin and continue on with life.
I doubt many kiwis will be too disheartened at all should a cricket score be racked up against them, the team have already conquered what was deemed unachievable by many outside our wee isles, so anything from here on in is a bonus be that a hiding, draw or a win.
You see in football we understand our place we know we’re not the best but we are better than the 5th best team Asia can put up and that has 4 million kiwis grinning from ear to ear
Mr cheese said | February 7th 2010 @ 11:48pm | Report comment
Well, you may not be convinced by this but…
my question was not meant to be all that combative. I wanted NZ to qualify, so you can’t really accuse me of being anti-NZ. Unless they play England ( unlikely ), I will support NZ in any game they play this summer. They will be underdogs every time, so perhaps they need all the help they can get.
So don’t be offended. I thought it was a fair question to ask: what damage will be done to association football in NZ if the team gets hammered in South Africa.
Best wishes, and I apologise if I did not make myself clear.
P.S. NZ choke at Rugby World Cups even though they’re the best. England choke in football, but we’re not the best. That’s the difference.
Ora said | February 8th 2010 @ 5:29am | Report comment
You see Cheese that’s where you are wrong if New Zealand are one of the best teams yes but why are they not the favourite every time?
Unfortunately for you chesse NZ has not been the favourite at every world cup, like the English football team New Zealand is expected to do well and like the English football team they also crumble on the big stage.
back to crying into your cornflakes me thinks
DaMan3000 said | February 9th 2010 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
Don’t mind Ora, he doesn’t speak for all kiwi’s. I for one am another Nuw Zulinder who is “grinning from ear to ear” The fact that we get to play against Italy, Paraguay and Slovakia is fantastic and the score will be irrelevant. My recollection is that was the general feeling during the Socceroos pool games in ‘06??? and that making it into the knockout round was a bonus…
Yay we’re better than the 5th best Asian team!!! And the AFC says the ‘Nix can’t play in the A-League – how rude.
Ora said | February 9th 2010 @ 5:13pm | Report comment
The fact that you have agreed with and said pretty much exactly what I have been saying has me in stitches. Daman you don’t happen to be from Hamilton do you
Ora said | February 7th 2010 @ 6:14am | Report comment
I don’t think it will be the end of the world Mr Cheese, soccer is on the up but it still barely gets any recognition in this country. Aside from the world cup qualifiers soccer is rarely mentioned. The country will not go into mourning and the little white kids will continue to turn up to the soccer pitch come saturday
Mr cheese said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Little white kids ?
What does that mean ?
The Bush said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:43am | Report comment
He’s implying that only European New Zealander’s player football, whilst those with a more Pacific heritage continue to play rugby and generally ignore the round-ball game.
Which may or may not be true of course…
Ora said | February 7th 2010 @ 10:29am | Report comment
Oh here we go people reading to much into an off the cuff comment,
If you knew anything about New Zealand soccer you would see the humour in what I was saying.
In recent years soccer popularity has gone through the roof in kids under the age of 14 and one of the big reasons for the increase especially of white kids is that their parents don’t want their kids getting smashed to pieces by the bigger boned Maori and pacific kids. Europeans tend to develop at a later stage and the fear of their wee darlings getting hurt has lead to a huge increase in white kids playing soccer at an early age.
But of course this is a inhouse New Zealand joke and I wouldn’t expect those from outside of NZ to get it. i will endeavour to explain it a little more in depth to save people getting their noses out of joint like clearly has happened in here. Come on fellas time to breathe
MV Dave said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Obviously hasnt seen any of the fantastic African boys playing our game.
Lee said | February 7th 2010 @ 6:40am | Report comment
Don’t know, look at chch super 14 crowd figures, they don’t even sell out semi finals most of the time. I would be highly suspicious about the number of repeat attendies or wheather it was a case of the football being a novelty.
Also the crusaders are the most successful side in super rugby. I doubt nz would have the ability to field a second competitive team in the a league, and if a chch team were not competitive then crowd figures would probsbly dip well below crusaders level.
Punter said | February 7th 2010 @ 6:41am | Report comment
Never affected England’s love of the game, when they are constistently demolished at most WCs. Only Spain has been a bigger choker than England on the WC stage.
Mr cheese said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Ah, the traditional inferiority complex ???
The difference between England and Australia, for example, is that we in England actually like football. In Australia, it seems to be evidence of The Cultural Cringe i.e. people in the colony feign an interest in the sport because it’s popular elsewhere.
Did the New Zealand victory over Australia in the last ( ahem…) “Rugby League World Cup” (TM) affect the standing of RL in the colony ??
It’s worth pointing out, of course, that England are seldom ‘demolished’ in World Cups. They choke on penalties. Not quite the same thing. Perhaps you didn’t realise because people in the colony only started to take an interest in football about 10 minutes ago.
Best wishes,
LT80 said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:41pm | Report comment
Australia was never a colony.
You have a distinctly middlebrow stench about you, cheese.
Mr cheese said | February 7th 2010 @ 11:43pm | Report comment
Highbrow, young man.
There is the stench of cheese, it’s true.
Australia was and is a colony.
We in England are now a colony of the USA, so you’re probably in the better position.
Fisher Price said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Yeah right… Not a final, semi or quarter appearance in sight.
MV Dave said | February 7th 2010 @ 7:11am | Report comment
Certainly Chch is worth more investigation and the staging of further HAL matches. Perhaps in 1-2 years when the AFC matter has been clarified and further games played there, FFA will be in a better position to make a decision. Certainly was a great crowd, in number, noise and color. Well done WP and Chch.
Punter said | February 7th 2010 @ 7:12am | Report comment
I think it would be great to give Wellington a local derby.
It is derbies & traditional rivalries that generate most interest.
Of course as Ben mentions it all depends on the lobbying on the AFC front.
I think Lowy has gone on record that he wants a 2nd NZ team.
hammer said | February 7th 2010 @ 7:44am | Report comment
For it to work it would need a local businessman and local through and through – Chch is worse than Brisbane – with it’s old boy network and distrust of anything and anybody from outside the city – but if day comes that NZ get a second team going south is definitely the right choice – Akld as has been proven is far too apathetic for a team to succeed
Matt said | February 7th 2010 @ 8:10am | Report comment
I think the novelty factor and a complete lack of competition (ie where is the cricket in NZ this summer?!) certainly helped the Phoenix in Christchurch. No doubt the recent high profile of soccer in NZ helped a lot too.
But you’d have to assume that this is anything but a one off, given the common apathetic nature of Christchurch sports fans.
The Phoenix would have taken the punt with the hope of securing one or two marquee games per season to boost their coffers. They are after all the Wellington Phoenix, not the New Zealand Phoenix. This is a point that has helped them to maintain a healthy crowd in the Capital. Whether the selling off of games to other cities in order for their owner to recoup his money is a good idea is up to him I guess. But I’d be VERY cautious about taking any regular fixtures outside of Wellington.
Atawhai Drive said | February 7th 2010 @ 8:18am | Report comment
One of the main reasons for the huge crowd at the Phoenix match was that it was opening night for the rebuilt AMI Stadium (formerly Jade Stadium, formerly Lancaster Park).
Rugby venues throughout NZ are being upgraded for next year’s Rugby World Cup. AMI Stadium was the first to be finished. Its previous status as a building site had kept many fans away from the ground. It was a happy coincidence for the Phoenix to be first up at the renovated stadium.
Football has a solid base of support in Christchurch. Clubs such as Western, Nomads, Shamrock, Technical, Rangers and Christchurch City have been a part of the local scene for 100 years. In the early days of the old National Soccer League in the 1970s (NZ had a national league from 1970, several years before Australia), Christchurch United reigned supreme.
But for all that, I doubt whether a second NZ team could sustain itself in the A-League.
hazza said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:00am | Report comment
Football is built on rivalries. Eventually phoenix must have a local rival. Playing another game there should be on the cards.
Chris said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:03am | Report comment
Don’t read to much into it – it was the grand opening of the new AMI Stadium. When Homebush opened then NRL sold 110,000 tickets to a regular season match.
That said there is enough to suggest that taking, perhaps, 1 or 2 Phoenix games there next year might be an idea. If those games are consistently getting 10,000+ then Christchurch probably deserves a team (in keeping with the FFAs penchant for bizarre names I propose “Canterbury Anger)” . Competition with the worlds best rugby team in a rugby mad city would be VERY tough though.
Try not to read too much into a one off. The signs are promising but I suspect just as many were there too see the new stadium as to watch the game.
MV Dave said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Heard it was the opening of one stand but as the Ruggers starts this week and the ground will be in use anyway…so l dont think you can just dismiss it that easily. BTW plenty looked to be sitting in the open ends behind the goals.. didnt look new in those areas.
Certainly further games are warranted.
Chris said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:31am | Report comment
My intention wasn’t to dismiss it – it was just to point out that 19,000 was certainly at the higher end of what can be expected for a crowd in Christchurch.
If I had wanted to dismiss it I would have pointed out that there is a 0.31% chance of the AFC allowing a second NZ team.
Footbal Person said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Arn’t we forgetting about the AFC and their silly ideals.
True Tah said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:40am | Report comment
20,000 was a great crowd for Christchurch, and it even rated a mention on the World Game last weekend! This is regardless of the fact that it was the opening of the new AAMI Stadium.
The main impediment to any new NZ side is going to be the AFC. If Australia wants to host the FIFA WC, we are going to need the AFC’s support, and until Oceania joins the AFC, I cannot see them being too happy about us supporting another federation.
I think after the next expansion round, I think the HAL should put any expansion on backburner. I guess the potential new sides are: Canberra, Christchurch, Oceania 11, Tasmania, Darwin.
Andyroo said | February 7th 2010 @ 9:55am | Report comment
I think it was a bit of a mad lolly scramble to get teams in so far and now their are 12 and all the major areas are covered they can slow it down and be a bit picky about additional teams.
I think because of the bid process Canberra were dudded so their should be some sort of commitment towards them (even if it’s for entry 5 years from now) and perhaps encouraging Tasmania to complete the national foot print.
Chris said | February 7th 2010 @ 10:06am | Report comment
For mine it all depends on the Heart. If they go well (by which I mean 12-14,000 average without decreasing MV’s crowds) then I wouldn’t be all that surprised if the FFA tried to get a third Melbourne team in the mix. A League built around 2 Sydney teams and 3 Melbourne teams could be quite strong indeed.
If it goes badly ie: MH getting around 10,000 as well as significantly cutting into MV’s crowds, then the FFA will probably go for broke to keep MH alive and delay future expansion (with the posssible exception of W Sydney) for at least 5 years.
For mine the abosolute best case for the A-League (by which I mean everything goes PERFECTLY) in 2025 is this:
Victoria: Melbourne Victory, Melbourne Heart, Melbourne 3
NSW: Sydney FC, Sydney Rovers, Central Coast Mariners, Newcastle Jets, Wollongong FC
Queensland: North Queensland Fury, Gold Coast United, Brisbane Roar
WA: Perth Glory
SA: Adelaide United
ACT: Canberra FC
NZ: Wellington Phoenix, Christchurch FC
Worst Case is that we are stuck with the original A-League 8 team formation (or less if Newcastle’s crowds keep so low). Obviously the reality lies somewhere in the middle. A good result for the A-League (and what will probably happen) would be a healty 12-14 team comp in 10 years.
At a bare minimum the A-League’s medium term survival is more or less a certainty – which I suspect most people would have been very happy with 5 years ago!
stevo said | February 7th 2010 @ 11:00am | Report comment
bit harsh on newcastle there? i’d be more worried about palmer lasting 15 years on the gold coast, con has proven his love of football and has shown a willingness to lose money for his hobby
besides, get rid of the sunday arvo games and newcastle’s crowds will jump by a 1-2k instantly
Chris said | February 7th 2010 @ 11:15am | Report comment
For all the criticism owners get you have to appreciate anyone who would willingly lose millions to keep their club afloat.
Chuq said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:02am | Report comment
A third Melbourne team, Christchurch AND Wollongong all BEFORE Tasmania??
Brett McKay said | February 7th 2010 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Oceania’s 11, I like it
Joe FC said | February 7th 2010 @ 10:38am | Report comment
Good article Ben an enjoyable read.
whiskeymac said | February 7th 2010 @ 10:39am | Report comment
nice dream.
a one off novelty in a unique WC year with the club chasing play offs for the first time… i think repeating the success in a rugby town to support a HAL club wld be asking a lot. pointing out the town is 400K is irrelevant when considering failures in Aukland. and these factors are irrelevant when consideration is given to the current AFC mandate.
but maybe there’s scope if and when the second division is formulated.
Katipo said | February 7th 2010 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Most ChCh pro-rugby games are played at night in the middle of winter. It’s really cold in ChCh. The local fans hate night games. This, plus confusing rules and apathy about always winning results in dwindling rugby crowds in the city.
A league football is played in summer. Playing A-league games in summer during the day will have appeal t ChCh sports fans. Realistically though, we are talking about support for one or two games not a team based there.
I’d like to see the Phoenix play a game in ChCh every year.
Bigger opprtunity though, can we get the All Whites to play the Socceroos in NZ annually?
allblackfan said | February 7th 2010 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Another question is what how will the 2011 RWC affect the NZ sporting landscape? Will it rekindle the fans’ passion for the game that has been waning for so many years! Especially if the All Blacks win the Cup!!
NZ soccer’s job will get easier if the ABs choke at the very highest level again. If the ABs chances win (given that the All Whites are likely to bow out in the first round of this year”S SWC), NZ soccer’s task will be just that much harder.
I’ve noticed that this year, the NZ rugby teams have been reconnecting at the very basic grassroots level; another worrying development for any other rival winter code there. (If you hold a game in a town of 129 people and 8000 turn up, that’s a definite statement.)
I think NZ is starting to build up to the 2011 RWC. The rugby folk are taking nothing for granted and are starting to touch all the bases. They want a stadium of four million people; they may very well get it!
I suspect the other codes may be defering any plans they have for NZ for 2-3 years.
James said | February 7th 2010 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
Im from canberra and i cant stand how ppl keep knocking our bid bcoz of the crowds we drew for the central coast games. the first game was on a friday night which in canberra is late night shopping which led to a small crowd. so many business owners and employees would have had to work and missed out and dont forget the neutrals who probably thort going out was a better option. if you for some reason think late night shopping does not effect crowds just look at the melbourne game which was the night before on thursday (late night shopping in melbourne) it was 14,000 there smallest crowd since season 1 and 6,000 less than there 20,000 average this season. onto the second game the crowd was small due to a boycott by fans who were angered that the ffa had announced west sydney as the next destination for an a-league team the majority of the 5,000 that showed up were not at the first game.
we CAN support a team, we have the population to do so and we have over 20,000 registered footballers. also worth mentioning is the 7,500 crowd we drew to a pre season game a few seasons back. i know thats not great but it was the biggest crowd of the pre season cup that year. if we had a team the average attendance would be 12,000+ i can guarantee it and the research team from our bid team confirmed it in there report.
Chris said | February 7th 2010 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
Yeah, because the bid team would have no incentive at all to overstate the expected crowds! As I recall both the Fury and the GC were both saying they would have average crowds in the 10,000-12,000 range. Not quite how it turned out! Have to say I can’t really envisage Canberra A-League having an average crowd of 12,000 – that’s what the Raiders get for crying out loud!
The “late night shopping” excuse is one of the most ridiculous excuses I have ever heard! The middle aged women typically doing late night shopping aren’t exactly the same people at the footy. Does that mean that if Canberra were included they could never stage an A-League game on a Friday night for fear of interrupting “late night shopping”?
Western Sydney: 2 million people. Canberra 350,000. Somehow I think that the FFA made the right choice.
Soccer just isn’t as big here as in other parts of the country. When the Cosmos were around their crowds were absolutely abysmal. Even the recent Socceroos game was outdone by a Brumbies game (to the tune of 1,500 patrons) just a week later.
I think the FFA would be better advised trying to fit as many teams as possible into the big cities (ie: 2 teams in Sydney and hopefully 3 in Melbourne eventually) and markets with little competition (Wollongong) than Canberra.
A Canberra team will probably come eventually – but there isn’t much in it for the FFA to enter a small, very competitive sports market with more or less no corporate support when they could be focusing on much bigger fish.
Andyroo said | February 7th 2010 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
I think we have to be realistic about Canberra. They will be just like every regional team and they will have to battle hard to get an average of 10k. Supporting a football team in summer is a lot better than supporting one in winter when it comes to Canberra though.
The reason I like the idea of Canberra and Tasmania is the footprint for the NYL. You have a professional team in the area that will have it’s own academy and hopefully eventually spotting talent from 12 years of age onwards and able to offer professional contracts to 16 year old to play in their own state if their good enough (i.e. before the AFL draft).
From the SMH today
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/new-frontier-brimming-with-western-promise-for-sheedy-20100206-njrq.html
Kevin Sheedy
”When you know they are there, that’s where you have to go if you love your own game. Harry Kewell – he might have been a fantastic midfielder if we’d have been here a few decades ago. Tim Cahill … we just needed to be in the marketplace.”
I really don’t see a 3rd team from Melbourne ever being needed. I think once we get too 16 teams we don’t need more teams just grow the clubs already in the competition. If there is to be a 3rd team from Melbourne (and I never thought I would say this) it should be South Melbourne. In say 8 or 9 years once the A league is matured then I think we could afford the risk of allowing one mono ethnic club into the comp and they are the one ex NSL team that seems to have held up ok. By then we would all be over the old “ethnics holding the game back” belief and they would be a nice bit of diversity.
Chris said | February 7th 2010 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
Well a 3rd Melbourne team would obviously only happen if Heart was a big success (by which I mean 14,000 odd crowds without taking numbers away from MV). In 10 years time if (and it is a big if) the A-League is going well and the FFA wants to turn up the heat on the AFL then a 3rd team would seem a logical choice.
If soccer actually is Australia’s national sport (a somewhat rash comment I have heard a few soccer fans voicing of late) then it shouldn’t have any trouble packing 3 teams into Melbourne.
James said | February 8th 2010 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
if late night shopping does not effect crowds why was melbournes thursday night clash the day before the canberra game there smallest since season 1? the main ppl hu miss out are business owners and employees, im not talking about mothers who would rather go shopping
Also in regards to our socceroos game in which we drew 20,000 the socceroos next home game which was in melbourne drew the same crowd, so you cant disregard that.
also as far as the cosmos they didnt get kicked out because of poor crowds, there crowds in comparison to the other teams in the nsl not not including perth glory were pretty much on par.
and dont bring up the raiders, they r not well supported here no one likes them
Robbo said | February 8th 2010 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
Something to do with it being a THURSDAY night. People have school/work the next day perhaps? Besides the Mariners game played on a Saturday attracted just 200 more than the Friday game – so there goes that theory. How come the Brumbies can pull a crowd of 21,000 on a Friday night without being kiboshed by the terror that is “late night shopping”?
Don’t know where in Canberra you hang out – Raiders are pretty big here (in fact their average crowds are higher than every A-League club save SFC and MV). If “no one likes them” then it must pale in comparison to, say, the Roar with average crowds of 8,000 in a city of 2 million!
12,000 A-League crowds in Canberra is not going to happen. Sydney FC only has 12,000 turning up to their games and they have a catchment some 15 times larger than Canberra! The FFA needs to develop big derby’s in Sydney and Melbourne (which to their credit is what they appear to be doing) before worrying about Canberra.
If Canberrans actually wanted an A-League team they would have turned up to the two Mariners games to the tune of at least 9,000. They didn’t come close.
The A-League has a lot of potential and a bright future, but it can’t dole out a team to every medium sized town at the expense of Sydney and Melbourne.
James said | February 18th 2010 @ 10:02pm (4 weeks ago) | Report comment
melbourne at home to sydney got 27,000 and 30,000 to both games at etihad. they faced each other tonight (thursday aka late night shopping) and drew 18,000 to a semi final game. that has to be the lowest melbourne vs sydney game attendance at etihad and it was a SEMI FINAL. so dont tell me late night shopping doesnt affect crowds.
also u say the game on the saturday in canberra drew only 200 more than the late night shopping friday clash. well like i sed the first time, there was a boycott by fans because they awarded west sydney the 12th spot. if it was still up in the air there would have been 8000+ to the saturday game which is a quality crowd considering we didnt have our own team playing
Brett McKay said | February 7th 2010 @ 2:45pm | Report comment
let’s not forget the ACT Govt’s threat/bluff of walking away from the WC bid as a deterrant for the Canberra bid either. I’d be surprised if it’s been forgotten in the FFA corridors…
cruyff turn said | February 7th 2010 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
Ben,
You’ve really downplayed the importance of the AFC, and how they may yet influence the FFA to jettison the Phoenix. So having a second Kiwi team is not the right idea, because the FFA have to show they’re committed to Asia, not developing the game in a different confederation. That’s why I also think having a team in New Caledonia is pie in the sky, because we can’t guarantee what conditions the AFC might enforce. Not saying Christchurch or whoever don’t “deserve” a team, it’s just that Australian football has more pressing considerations, and keeping the AFC folks happy is high on the list.
hammer said | February 7th 2010 @ 4:43pm | Report comment
After the world cup hosting decision at end of this year – it becomes a non issue as wgtn’s continued presence is a FIFA decision not an AFC one – so a second NZ team at some future stage is not an AFC matter
cruyff turn said | February 7th 2010 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
Really?
I was under the impression that the AFC would have a big say in NZ’s A-League participation. Then I checked the Phoenix’s page on Wikipedia, and found the following quote from Sepp Blatter in Dec 2008:
“It is not the matter of the confederation, it is the matter of the FIFA Executive Committee… If Wellington will go on play on in Australian League, then as long as Australian league wants to have them and Wellington wants to stay (and) Both association in this case, New Zealand Soccer and Australian Football are happy with that then we will give them the blessing. The confederation can not interfere with that.”
So I take everything back! Yes, Christchurch have shown they’re capable, but I’d want Canberra in there, and maybe Wollongong too, before another NZ team.
Chris said | February 7th 2010 @ 8:02pm | Report comment
Obviously the AFC has no direct say in it – but they do have the power to make life VERY uncomfortable for the FFA unless it listens to them. The AFC decides things like ACL spots, who hosts the Asian Cup and most importantly weather or not Australia is allowed to stay in the AFC.
Davstar said | February 7th 2010 @ 6:42pm | Report comment
If the AFC allows NZ to compete in the A-league I reckon a second New Zealand will eventually get a second team in the A-league which would be good for the A-league and NZ football increasing their talent pool. Personally I would like Wakita United to join the A-league they already have a few thousand fans and have a decent squad. But I think it would be a few years away for our neighbors.
davelee said | February 7th 2010 @ 7:08pm | Report comment
looks like cruyff turn did a cruyff turn!!
davelee said | February 7th 2010 @ 7:12pm | Report comment
……sorry, i just couldnt resist
Republican said | February 8th 2010 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
More to the point, are there any more worthy Australian demographics to be considered, since this is an AUSTRALIAN Comp I believe?
Canberra is the nations capital and are being touted as the next franchise having participated in the League some years back now. They have the same sort of population at Cch. It is true about the recent attendances at Canberra Staduim which indicate that they don’t seem to be too keen on the game so in that respect, perhaps Christchurch are the logical option to expansion. A contradiction however is, that Soccer’s the number one footy code at the GR’s in the ACT presently.
I thought Wellington were about to be dropped from the A League, so what’s all this talking up TWO Kiwi teams anyway or is perhaps Christchurch a better option and should trump Wellington?
Cheers
cruyff turn said | February 8th 2010 @ 4:07pm | Report comment
The difference between the recent game in Christchurch and the Canberra matches was that in Christchurch, the fans felt an attachment to the “home” team. The Phoenix at the moment is kind of like NZ’s team, not just representing Wellington. Canberra didn’t have this, added to the fact that Central Coast vs. Perth Glory or whoever it was is a hard sell.
Hammer said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:27am | Report comment
well because, as one of your fellow ACT citizens have pointed out, if late night shopping seems to be seen as a better past time in your boring little town – Canberra probably doesn’t deserve an A league team
Ora said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Hammer that is classic
cruyff turn said | February 9th 2010 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
I’m not from Canberra!!! How you reached that conclusion beats me!
Hammer said | February 9th 2010 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
not you c t …
DaMan3000 said | February 9th 2010 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
ROFLMAO
cruyff turn said | February 9th 2010 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
Sorry Hammer! I’m still a bit of a rookie with using this website!
Jim said | February 8th 2010 @ 9:56pm | Report comment
New Zealand could definitely accommodate another A-League team!
If Gold Coast United can average a 5,337 crowd and North Queensland Fury can average a 6,793 crowd, a second NZ team could easily match, if not surpass this.
As a Perth Glory fan however the scheduling of matches must be given serious thought given we have to travel half way round the world [well….almost ] to play in New Zealand.
In fact the tough travel requirements for Perth Glory needs to be recognised as it is a significant disadvantage to travel such great distances given the relatively small travel requirements of Eastern based clubs.
Tony said | February 9th 2010 @ 6:07am | Report comment
Those esteemed gentlemen in charge of New Zealand football must be scratching their collective heads, how do we set up a viable professional league in NZ, and what to do with the Phoenix?
I love the Phoenix, their run to the finals has been a great ride and they are a wonderful alternative to our big ‘3′ here in NZ: Rugby, Cricket & Rugby League.
I grew up in Christchurch in a strong Rugby League community, but played football at school (much to my father’s asmusement) inspired by the All White’s wonderful qualification for Spain in 82′.
Now living in Auckland for several years, I can see another opportunity for professional football in the ‘City of Sails’, but it does not involve the A League .. it involves our own NZ pro league.
If NZ don’t join the Asaian confed then we must get serious about forming our own professional football league, which of course the Phoenix can be a major part of.
This can start off as a 6 team competition.
3 teams in Auckland: City, North Shore & Waitakere.
The Phoenix in Wellington (I think the Yellow Fever would still come out to support their team no matter who they were playing).
And 2 teams from the South Island: Christchurch United and Otago (who could play at their brand spanking new indoor stadium next door to Otago University).
I kow the NZFC is a ’semi-professional’ competition at present (whatever that really means), but it really needs to go fully pro to really cement football into the NZ social and cultural fabric.
Imagine Ryan Nelson coming home from Blackburn Rovers to captain Christchurch United in the first season of the new Kiwi pro league?
Imagine 3 games of quality football on NZ television every weekend in Spring/Summer?
Imagine crowds of 5-10 thousand for each match (which is just scratching the service of the football loving ex-pat Poms living over here).
John Lennon would have wanted it and the Phoenix have shown the way .. forget the A-League, let’s set up our own super ‘Oceania’ league based here in NZ (and why not throw in a team from Vanuwatu just to keep things interesting)
Now all we need is a fraction of the money the NZ goverment threw at the America’s Cup and Rugby World Cup and we are go for launch!
Sticky B said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:02am | Report comment
Jim, where’s this place Perth you speak of? If you’re going to live in the middle of nowhere you deserve to travel. East side!
hazza said | February 9th 2010 @ 10:13am | Report comment
If you are going to take games to different cities in NZ you would want to do it in a World Cup year. This would be perfect for 1 or 2 games a year. I would certainly revisit Christchurch. It appears the AFC have painted them selves into a corner. A French team ( Etoile fc ) is about to kick off in the S-League. It will be interesting to see what MBH has to say about this considering what he has said about the Phoenix participation in the A league.
Republican said | February 9th 2010 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Hammer
Where do you reside out of interest?
Thanks for the heads up re. Canberra in speaking on behalf of all those who continue to flock to the Nations Capital.
Given the conviction with which you convey such sentiment, you simply have to be a Kiwi, since as we are all aware, NZ is synonomous with’ boredom’.
In that respect, your comment should be taken in context as not being simply a facile slight on Canberra. It would be an exercise in futility for any of us, to challenge such an esteemed authority on the subject.
Cheers
Thanks again cob.
Hammer said | February 9th 2010 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
just stating facts – rather than endless puerile opinions