By Spiro Zavos
February 9th 2010 @ 1:30am
Related coverage
Is 2010 finally the year of the NSW Waratahs?
Brumbies' Stirling Mortlock (left) and Waratahs' Lote Tuqiri take to the air in the Super 14 rugby match at Canberra Stadium, Friday, March 13, 2009. The Brumbies beat the Waratahs 21-11. AAP Image/Alan Porritt
At the launch of the NSW Waratahs’ 2010 Super 14 season, officials were happy to play down expectations about how their team will perform this year, with public utterances of confidence. But privately they are convinced that this is the Waratahs’ year.
The sales pitch for Waratahs tickets reflects this, with the punchline: It’s Our Time.
Last year the Waratahs were one try off a finals placing.
They won all three of their matches in South Africa, the only time this has been done by any Australian or New Zealand team. They won more matches than the Crusaders.
But they did not win enough bonus points, and especially early on in the season, played in a negative way that turned off supporters and the media.
This year, the coaching staff is into its second season and has a better understanding of what it takes to complete a successful Super 14 ‘journey.’ They have learned, for instance, that playing a battering ram at inside centre like Tom Carter does not help the continuity game the Waratahs are aspiring to play.
More importantly, the squad has been given an impetus from a series of excellent additions.
The key new signings are Berrick Barnes and the try-scoring machine Drew Mitchell. Barnes will give the Waratahs a world class five-eighths for the first time in Super Rugby. Mitchell should ensure that tries are scored from breaks made by the clever and incisive running of the inside backs.
The pack did well last year and in the trial matches has been over-powering its opponents.
In Benn Robinson, the side has a world class prop who lifts the entire pack with his combination of mongrel, scrumming skills and energy around the field on attack (he has one of the best catch and pass games in the side) and defence.
The Waratahs play only six matches at home. But they also play only two matches in South Africa – against the Sharks and the Bulls.
I am the only Greek I know who is not a gambling man, but the odds against the Waratahs on the TAB Sportsbet of $13 – $1 seem to be so outrageous that a habit of a lifetime might have to be broken.
The TAB Sportsbet market is: $3.50 on the Crusaders, $5 ACT Brumbies, $6 Bulls, $9 Hurricanes, $10 Chiefs, $11 Blues, $13 Waratahs and Sharks, $14 Stormers, $81 Reds, Force, Highlanders, $126 Cheetahs, $251 Lions.
The bookies put their money where there mouth is so you have to respect their judgment on these matters. But they seem to rely a lot on past history with the market they have set.
Their first three sides are three of only four teams (the Blues are the fourth side) that have won a Super rugby title.
The Crusaders, with Daniel Carter and the addition of a new superstar winger Zac Guilford, who should give his team some easy tries, look to be a good bet.
The Bulls, too, with Fourie du Preez, with Carter, one of the great backs in the history of rugby, should be contenders.
But they have lost Bryan Habana to the Stormers. In my view, Habana was about 80 per cent of the Bulls kicking game and it will be interesting to see if the team adjusts and runs more as it did when it annihilated the Chiefs in last year’s final.
The Sharks and Waratahs are relegated to a seventh position in favouritism, behind even the Blues.
My first fearless prediction for 2010 is that the Blues will play some fantastic rugby and some awful rugby that will keep them out of the finals.
On paper, at least, the Sharks and the Waratahs seem like sides that have been unfairly written off by the bookies.
The Waratahs, as I’ve observed, appear to have ticked all the boxes needed for a successful season. The playing list of the Sharks, too, suggests that coach John Plumtree should have a rewarding season.
There are players like Bismarck du Plessis, Juan Martin Hernandez, Adrian Jacobs, Ryan Kankowski, Rory Kockett, Tednai ‘The Beast’ Mtawarira, Odaw Ndungane and Ruan Pienaar. A squad with these players in it should be a finals side.
The Highlanders are a side, too, that could surprise.
Last season they lost a number of matches by 3 points or less. They have a strong pack with the All Black Tom Donnelly certain to be a strength in the lineout. They have some of the most talented and exciting young backs currently going around in New Zealand rugby.
Israel Dagg (what a great NZ rugby name!) is a talented fullback. Robbie Robinson may be as good as Aaron Cruden (the Hurricanes great new talent) as a five-eights. Winger Ben Smith was a surprise All Black on the European tour and then revealed himself to be an excellent, all-round player.
Going back to the Australian sides, I’m surprised that the ACT Brumbies are ranked so high.
Admittedly the addition of Matt Giteau is a plus. But Giteau was not able to lead the Western Force (which had a better squad in my view than the Brumbies) into the finals. There doesn’t seem to be much depth in the Brumbies squad and the pack, apparently, was monstered by the Waratahs in their trial game.
The Western Force was dealt a terrible blow with the long-term injury to Andre Pretorius. The team has some prodigious young talent in James O’Connor and David Pocock. But there is not much depth in the squad.
Part of the fun of the pre-season posturing is to make predictions, knowing that the future rarely unfurls in an expected pattern. So here goes: the Crusaders, Bulls and Waratahs are finals sides, for sure.
The Hurricanes, Sharks and the Highlanders are most likely (in my view) to contest that fourth position.
And the winner of the 2010 Super 14 title? I fall back on a mantra that has served me well in the past when I have been asked for a prediction: “We’re having the tournament to find out the answer to that.”
Game on!
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(112)
Who Needs Melon said | February 9th 2010 @ 5:42am | Report comment
Spiro, Spiro, Spiro…
You’ve been watching this game (and the Waratahs) longer than I have. Do you really want to go into another season expecting ‘for sure’ that the Waratahs will make the finals?
For me the main question mark hanging over the Waratahs is: How early in the season, if it all, will the find a settled, gelling backline? Without this we are going to see a repeat of last season. Of course the answer to the question depends largely on the health of Barnes and others. I hope they go alright. I’d hate to see two aussie sides hobbled due to injuries to their fly halves.
matt said | February 9th 2010 @ 6:20am | Report comment
So letś look at the Brumbies pack that you have doubts about Spiro:
Alexander, Moore, Ma’afu/Henderson,
Harrison/Kimlin, Chisholm
Smith, Hoiles, Elsom
If these guys are not up for a challenge then there goes a huge chunk of the Wallabies pack as well.
Central North said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Ummm hasn’t Henderson signed with the Force? And Kimlin’s out for the season isn’t he?
jeznez said | February 9th 2010 @ 10:14pm | Report comment
Not sure where Henderson is but Sheperdson is the tighthead at Brumbieland. Kimlin is out but they do have Hand and Mitch Chapman has been cruelly ignored when looking at their depth in the backrow. Certainly not a lightweight pack just not as good as the Tahs! I just hope that Al Baxter doesn’t start this year although judging by the last two trials he will be. Bring on Palmer!!!!!
Chris said | February 9th 2010 @ 6:47am | Report comment
The Sharks have lost Hernandez. It was pretty big news at the time. I guess it can be excused – it didn’t happen in Sydney.
Brett McKay said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:20am | Report comment
thought the same thing Chris, that Hernandez was gone for the season, a la Pretorius for the Force. Have the Sharks found a new 10 yet, or is Francois Steyn set for another year of play-making??
Mike G said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:39am | Report comment
I thought Francois was playing in France?? Sure I saw him on Eurosports the other night…
Lee said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:11am | Report comment
Steyn is at Racing in France
Chris said | February 9th 2010 @ 6:57am | Report comment
The 2009 Force had a better squad than the 2010 Brumbies?
Mortlock, Elsom, Smith, Ashley-Cooper, Moore, Gerrard, Alexander vs. what exactly? Drew Mitchell and Sharpe? Even the 2009 Brumbies finished ahead of that mob!
“You CANNAWT be serious!”
Go_the_Wannabe's said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:49am | Report comment
They must have a better squad……they beat the Brumbies at home in 2009. In fact they beat all the Australian teams in 2009.
Chris said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Next time you reply to a comment have the courtesy to read it.
PastHisBest said | February 9th 2010 @ 10:20am | Report comment
How do you know he didn’t???
Comrade Bear said | February 9th 2010 @ 10:33am | Report comment
“The 2009 Force had a better squad than the 2010 Brumbies?”
Chris – I also thought Spiro was comparing 2009 squad to 2009 squad also with:
“…But Giteau was not able to lead the Western Force (which had a better squad in my view than the Brumbies) into the finals …”
jeznez said | February 9th 2010 @ 10:18pm | Report comment
yeah but Chris names Mark Gerrard and Elsom in the same squad – not quite right…….
Sam Taulelei said | February 9th 2010 @ 6:59am | Report comment
I don’t know why the Brumbies are rated above the Waratahs even with their offseason signings. In another thread assessing the Brumbies chances I stated that they’ll have to improve their record in SA to have any chance and that the Waratahs have proven that they can win on the road better than any other Aussie side and they appeal to me as the better punt. The signing of Giteau is interesting as he was one of the heavily criticised players from last year for not performing towards the business end of the competition when the Force needed him to front. The bookies must know something is bubbling at Bruce Stadium and they have to be respected but I’d gamble on the Tahs if I was to pick a title winner from Australia.
Last year before the competition started I predicted that a SA side would win the title and that the Crusaders would just miss out on making the top four. I was right on one prediction and narrowly missed out on the other.
This year I predict that a NZ team will win the competition and that the Bulls will miss out on making the top four. The men from the high veldt have a number of disruptions to their preparation and will be missing several of their top players for most of the first half of the competition and have lost Habana to the Stormers who as Spiro mentioned formed a large portion of their kick and chase strategy.
If the Blues improve their defence and repeat their efforts in attack last year where they scored the most points, the most tries and the most four try bonus points then they’ll be a strong contender for the top four and maybe even the title. However with the loss of Ali Williams there are serious question marks over their tight five with only Anthony Boric a recognised lock forward of any quality.
The Highlanders will surprise many teams this year and will win more games than they did last year but anything higher than a mid table finish will be an overachievement for a young and developing side.
The Crusaders, Hurricanes and Chiefs appeal as the strongest NZ teams this year, especialy the former two. The Hurricanes are in a similar position to the Tahs and have the same weight of expectation for a constantly underachieving side, the Sharks fall into the same category.
Like the Waratahs, the Hurricanes have strengthened their side with some off season transfers and signings, the most hyped being young no.10 Aaron Cruden. If he delivers on his promise and can form a combination with Piri Weepu then the Canes will have an inside back combination to guide them to another finals appearance and maybe a title win.
Smart money however is on the Crusaders to overcome their blip last year and with McCaw and Carter in tandem again, that’s as good as money in the bank.
Go_the_Wannabe's said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:55am | Report comment
Gits carried the Force last year, especially towards the business end…..he was the one of a very few that fronted. He probably didn’t want to leave on bad terms even though his third party sponsorship fell through…….hats off to him for doing that.
PastHisBest said | February 9th 2010 @ 10:23am | Report comment
“…then the Canes will have an inside back combination to guide them to another finals appearance and maybe a title win.”
Sam, Sam, Sam….you know as well as I do that the ‘canes always flatter to deceive.
DingoBob said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:00am | Report comment
Come on Spiro are you really going back to the old line about the Brumbies not being up to it? NSW have been saying that since 1996 and since then the Brumbies have won two Super Rugby Championships and the Waratahs have won how many?
DingoBob said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:07am | Report comment
I think you’ll find part of the reason the Brumbies are rated higher is because they know how to win a Super Rugby Championship. After all they have won 2. how many have the Waratahs won?
RickG said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:17am | Report comment
We get the point Dingo
Sam Taulelei said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:11am | Report comment
And as each year passes without a title for the Brumbies how long before the public and press realise they can no longer trade on their past glories. Their last title was in 2004, the Blues last title was in 2003, only 12 months separate them but you don’t see the Blues being talked up as title contenders as much as the Brumbies this year.
Chris said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:37am | Report comment
and you didn’t see the Brumbies being talked up last year. Must be something to do with signing 2 World XV players.
Central North said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:39am | Report comment
Geez.. you Brumbies types are so touchy.
Hope they manage to keep Gits happy. ‘Cause all Wallaby fans know what happens when he doesn’t get his way. And Rocky can’t carry a team on his own – or the Tahs would have won a title by now.
Hammer said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:04am | Report comment
“2 World XV players” .. the australian dream machine continues unabated
Central North said | February 9th 2010 @ 10:49am | Report comment
That should read “Brumbies dream machine” Hammer.. Don’t lump the rest of us in with the true believers from the home of the roundabout and the public servant.
I think from the various comments on this thread, Spiro is the only Tahs fan shouting their title credentials from the rooftops. The rest of us read this piece with a sigh and a hope – and a hope alone – that this year won’t be another case of “here we go again…”
RickG said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:16am | Report comment
I posted an article a couple of weeks back questioning whether this season was going to be overshadowed by the looming S15, but I’m happy to say I’m looking forward to it again and, hopefully!, a title to the ‘tahs this time. Just don’t jinx it with too much talk of the ‘tahs being sure things for the finals!
I hope and expect Hickey has his mind settled on the best backline and, barring injury, we should see some consistency.
A couple of times people here have mentioned how you can download S14 games to watch afterwards. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I don’t have Foxtel and will have very little access to the games so it’ll be a challenge t okeep up with what’s happening.
Bay35Pablo said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:44am | Report comment
RickG, iinet offers it to people who have their broadband internet with them.
Brett McKay said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:26am | Report comment
Rick, as Sam says below, there is Rugbyzone, but I think it has restrictions placed on streaming into the SANZAR countires, and so it’s 6hr delay only (happy to stand corrected, btw, but that’s definitely how it was). For games in South Africa though, it means you can watch them from about 9am Sundays.
The Fox Sports website has offered the Rugbyzone streams in recent years too, I think a season pass was about $70 for all the Super 14 games, or for $100 you could get all the NPC and CC games too. You could also go with single games for about $4.95 from memory.
RickG said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Thanks Brett, I thought you needed to be a Foxtel subscriber to access the online streams? Will check it out.
Brett McKay said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:20am | Report comment
no, not at all Rick, this is/was through the Fox Sports website.
They got the details for 2010 up now – check out http://www.rugbyzone.com/channel/foxsports/2009.asp directly, or get to it from the Rugby section of the FS site.
S14 season pass has dropped, only US$49.95 this year. Not sure if it’s still on delay, but would presume so..
RickG said | February 9th 2010 @ 10:43am | Report comment
Thanks again, this was just what I was after but couldn’t find it the other day. Entering via rugbyzone direct seems to suggest you can’t access thsi in Aust, but as you say via Fox it’s fine.
Sam Taulelei said | February 9th 2010 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
From that site I’ve worked out that buying a Super 14 season pass at $49.95 USD roughly equates to $60.00 AUD giving me all 94 matches across four months that would otherwise cost me $224.00 in Foxtel subscription is a much better value deal.
Combining that with the freezone streams from iiNet featuring all games involving Aussie teams I could watch the iiNet feeds without affecting my monthly quota and then cherry pick the NZ games I want to watch at $7.00 AUD a game from FoxSports Rugby on demand puts me even further ahead.
Now here’s the kicker. If the rumours that the ARU has rengotiated broadcasting rights for the Super 14 on FTA (presumably One HD) then I could get all the rugby that I want via FTA and the internet without paying $600.00 a year to Foxtel when all I really watch is the rugby and none of the other programs that get bundled in their basics package.
I’m going to buy a game pass this weekend and test the picture quality of the feed on my TV. The games are delayed six hours after they’ve ended which doesn’t bother me and in some cases works out better when the games are in SA. There is a limit of 3 PC’s that you can stream the feed to but you can stream it from your PC to a media player and watch it on your telly instead of your PC. Now all I have to do is work out how to archive the content.
Rick you will have to be mindful of how much bandwidth these feeds will eat into your monthly internet plan but even if you increase your plan to meet your demand it still works out much cheaper than subscribing to Foxtel.
Thanks for the link Brett.
Brett McKay said | February 9th 2010 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
Sam, I’ve watched the streams via Fox/RZ in the past, and they’re quite good quality from memory, so I’ll be interested to see how you get on. Also from memory, a full game stream was approx 700Mb; I had to keep track of this sort of thing with the plan I was on at the time…
Re the FTA rumour, I’ve heard it too, and I like what I hear. I presume you’ve meant S15 though, not the S14 this year?? I really hope YOU’RE right, by the way!!
Jameswm said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:22am | Report comment
How many years have we been asking this?
A good pack and (at last) a good 5/8 – well, one very good one and two good backups. Pace out wide. I don’t think they have the coaching for it though.
Sam I was thinking exactly the same thing. Since the Brumbies won their two titles, the Tahs have made 2 finals, have one or two other finals appearances, and (correct me if I’m wrong Brumby fans – and I’m sure you will) the Brumbies haven’t even made the finals.
By the way Matt
That Brumby pack you see as awesome – they’re suspect at tight head and lock, and have a small no.8. We’ll have to see how they go over the season. NSW are suspect at tight head (though a lot less suspect) and lock and have a huge no.8.
Craigb said | February 9th 2010 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
Light at tighthead? The wallaby tighthead in a newly respected pack not good enough for s14???
jeznez said | February 9th 2010 @ 10:24pm | Report comment
Alexander is back playing loosehead to Shepherdson’s tighthead.
Justin said | February 9th 2010 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
I would say the Tahs have the better LH, Brumbie better TH and both hookers hot n cold. Would take the Brumbies locks and back-row over Tahs any day of the week. To me Palu if he continues his Nov form is the only certainty in a combined back 5 from NSW.
Sam Taulelei said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:23am | Report comment
Rick
There’s a site called http://www.rugbyzone.com that provides coverage from all rugby competitions for a $99 annual subscription. That’s the best site for streaming rugby that I know of although there are others.
My ISP iiNet provides coverage of all Super 14 games involving Australian teams in their freezone so it doesn’t count towards your monthly quota, they stream the games 8 hours after they finish and remain available until the next round of games.
RickG said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Cheers Sam, that was the one I was thinking of.
RickG said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:20am | Report comment
Bugger, it appears you can’t access S14 in Australia!
Ben said | February 9th 2010 @ 11:50am | Report comment
You can if you make it appear that you aren’t in Australia
proxies and/or IP masking are your friend in this regard – I’m in NSW and watched all the Tah’s games and probably half the rest of the Oz teams games (live apart from matches in SA) through rugbyzone last year.
Also, unless they’ve fixed up their billing/payment processing you always have a chance of getting games for free – I paid for a day pass for the Waratahs first game in Wello last year and had access to all S14 games for the next month or so until the Brumbies match when I had to pay again. Later on on the season I also got a couple of extra days from a single day pass.
Short-Blind. said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:46am | Report comment
Agree with Jameswm and SamT, the tahs will not win and one of the big 3 kiwis seem the most likely. As I’ve mentioned on other posts – the Tahs two big problems are poor coaching and the average tactical leadership of Phil Waugh. Phil won’t change so unless Hickey really pulls a rabbit out of the hat I just can’t see them winning the big games that count (they will make the 4 though).
Bay35Pablo said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:46am | Report comment
Spiro, we all agreed at the meeting where we stole Berrick that we weren’t going to talk up the tahs this year. Keep quiet, play it humble, get under everyone’s radar, steal the title when everyone wasn’t looking.
Now you’ve jinxed us!!!!
I think we could do alright this year, but a lot of things have to fall into place. Little to no injuries, a backline that finally fires, and ensure the forwards stay dominant. That’s a start …
Harry said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Pablo and Spiro and all you Tah-lovers,
NSW can do many things, but “steal the title while no one’s looking” will never be one of them!
If the Tahs are in the running, we’ll all here plenty about it, from Spiro downwards. I do think they have the best chance of any of the Aus teams, but at the moment I am not at all optimistic that any of our (Aus) teams will make the semi’s. Force and Reds will be happy to have a single figure finish, Brumbies scontiue to cruise in their delusional wonderment at their own brillance and position as the only Australian team to have won a Super 12 (see the track record of the last 5 seasons), and the Tahs … well see below
I have a theory that is going to be tested this season – it is that Barnes drags teams down and is not a winner. His time at the Reds and Wallabies have always coincided with promise but no delivery – 1s Beldisloe cup in Auckland is a classic example. He ALWAYS gets injured and misses games, is not at his best … the result will be destablisation of the Tahs campaign. Not eclusively Barnes’ fault, but I’m sure a contributing factor. Before dismissing this, look at Barnes’ track record at the Broncos – exactly the same as the Reds and the Wallabies, but no one can deny the Bronco’s winning culture.
Cracker said | February 9th 2010 @ 10:12am | Report comment
Interesting theory Harry.
We’ll keep an eye on it
Comrade Bear said | February 9th 2010 @ 11:15am | Report comment
That is harsh !
And even Dan Carter could not have saved the Reds. An the reason Barnes got his first run with the Walabies was because S Larkam was injured.
Barnes is what 23/24 this year? He will only be starting to mature as a Prof Rugby Player- I think he was a sen-say-shonal pickup for the Tahs.
… but I so hope your theory is correct and he destabilised the Tahs – at least for this Saturday’s game.
Comrade Bear said | February 9th 2010 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
…and being a Reds fan – I won’t be happy with a single figure finish – I would be over the moon, ecstatic and delious with joy …!
I just hope they play well / or at least compete this Saturday after getting touched up by the Force last week.
Harry said | February 9th 2010 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
Agree Comrade, 9th would be a great result.
Sigh, hasn’t Queensland rugby fallen a long way when thats the extent of our dreams.
I hope they compete in every game this year and never throw in the towel – something that unfortuately Queensland sides have been guilty of in recent years (Exhibit A 92-3, but there have been other which have been as bad, even if not reflected in the scoreline)
Banger said | February 9th 2010 @ 11:59pm | Report comment
a very sad fall it has been indeed. From arguably the worlds best provincial side (93-96) to a team that is unable to retain even its captains in its playing group.
While I am always optimistic about qld’s ability to beat nsw, and think they will push them all the way this weekend, the only sure thing going into the match is that burgess’s passing is going to give the reds plenty of time to put a couple of hits on barnes. And I am looking forward to that.
Hammer said | February 9th 2010 @ 11:31am | Report comment
The Tah’s chances will be greatly enhanced by the number of times they’re reffed by Dickinson – he gave them a ride to the top of the table at the start of last year
Jameswm said | February 9th 2010 @ 7:50am | Report comment
I’m not worried about the forwards. They’ve been strong for several years, and what did they do to a supposedly strong Brumbies pack in their final trial?
But the backs? Will Barnes make a difference? Who will play 13? Do they know how to create space for the flyers out wide, because Turner, Mitchell and Anesi are fast.
Robbo said | February 9th 2010 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
I daresay the Brumbies pack that apparently got dominated by the Tahs last week (and it didn’t, I was there) looks a little different with the addition of Alexander and Elsom.
Damo said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:13am | Report comment
Dingo, Its precisely because the Tahs have never won that they attract some favouritism. Brumbies are great and I wish them well. But for Tahs its now or never like England in 2003. And they have been unlucky too. A couple of years ago it was the dual stupidity of Wendel’s powder party and the game’s draconian rec drugs policy that sunk the title hopes.
This year is the last before the dilution of talent that the Rebels will bring. The Brumbies don’t have the now or never motivation.
Rickety Knees said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:55am | Report comment
I agree Damo – Barnes is only on a one year contract – he is the only world class No 10 that the Tahs have had since the Great Mark Ella. If they don’t do it this year they won’t do for God knows how long. You don’t win an S14 without a true general at 10. I don’t see it as pressure on the Tahs just reality. My only concern is whether Hickey and Weismantel are up to the task, I have no concerns about Foley who has the pack absolutely humming.
PastHisBest said | February 9th 2010 @ 10:32am | Report comment
“You don’t win an S14 without a true general at 10.”
Or at 9 Rickety, al-la the Bulls. But the less said about that re: the ‘Tahs, the better.
Rickety Knees said | February 9th 2010 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
PHB – I agree that Burgess is under the microscope. I am not sure about Holmes but McKibbin seems to have some wraps on him – though I have not seen him play.
Temba said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:29am | Report comment
$251 Lions, its worth a fiver on fixed… Muir is in charge and stranger thigns have happened.
5 on the Lions
5 on the Highlanders
10 on the Tahs
10 Sharks
20 Bulls
To much depth in the Saffa sides, its going to be a hard season with lots of injuries. 50 bucks and the worst you can do (if you get it right) is double your money. best case $1200
Clearly I am a saffa…
Chris said | February 9th 2010 @ 11:18am | Report comment
I think you will find most betting sites have it worked out already – they usually only allow you to bet on one team. Besides – if the Stormers/Brumbies/Crusaders win it you lose it all!
I think I will keep my money firmly in pocket until at least Week 3.
Of course if you are looking for a strategy in which you never lose do what I do for the big games:
a) Work out how much you would pay if it meant your team would be guaranteed a win.
b) Bet that value on the other side
If they win and you are paid handsomely, if they lose your team wins! Then all you have to worry about is the draw.
Brett McKay said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:29am | Report comment
I’ll be interested to see who ends up filling the 13 jumper for NSW. I know Carter is talking up his versatility, but the way he defended at 13 in the Brumbies-Tahs trial didn’t fill me with confidence. The sooner Rob Horne is fit, the better I think..
Harry said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Alas you may be waiting awhile Brett, Horne is another player whose potential may never be realised because his body can’t handle the demands of today’s high intensity physicality.
Mike G said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:51am | Report comment
I too like RH, Brett – But as I’ve said here lately, I would actually like to see how Carter plays with BB & KB at 10/12…Give him the first 3 away games & if (massive IF!), he fronts & plays well, he stays…I just think the BB/KB/TC 10/12/13 is a good mix of creativity/aggression & street smarts….If they stay fit I honestly think they could do some real damage this yr & I’ve got ‘em at $13 too!!!
Brett McKay said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:16am | Report comment
MikeG, truth be told, I never really thought much of Carter at 12, he just didn’t have that creative element you want from a 12, in much the same way Mortlock, Cross, Ashley-Cooper and Tyronne Smith look lost at 12 too. 13 seems to be the right spot for Carter’s game, but I was really surprised how much trouble he had in defence, given that was one of his strong points at 12.
Rob Horne on the other hand, is a natural 13, he really could be anything. Unfortunately, as Harry says above, he’s had to endure an injury run that would rival Shane Watson.
I’ve seen a little of Sidey too, and he could be handy..
Mike G said | February 9th 2010 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
BM – 100% agree with your opinion on TC at 12, but without having seen him play high level footy at 13 it’s obviously hard to know if he’ll make it or not, so why not give him the first few away games to see if it works? I realise the trials are there for that exact purpose (& i have to admit i’ve only seen short clips on the news & Fox sports), but i just get the feeling the backline needs a guy like TC at 13, to organise the defence. If you say he wasn’t up to it defensively I believe you, but have to say i’m suprised as (& you mention this also), it was probably his strongest asset last yr. But I also acknowledge that 13 is the toughest defensive position so perhaps it’s just growing pains???
Further, I like the fact he’s trimmed right down & seems to realise this may be his last real shot at big time footy…It may/may not bring out the best in him…We’ll see.
I still can’t believe I’m now sticking up for TC, but I’d never really thought of him as a 13…No idea why!!
John allyne said | February 9th 2010 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
Brett
You must be a very bitter man, you must have been watching another game of rugby , as a brumbies supporter i thought Carters defence was outstanding, including three try saving tackles. The roar was for intellegent remarks about rugby, not for someone who has a giant chip on his shoulder.
PastHisBest said | February 9th 2010 @ 6:46pm | Report comment
Whew! Go in harder John. Don’t hold back! That McKay bloke always likes to sink the slipper.
Brett McKay said | February 10th 2010 @ 7:34am | Report comment
where’s this come from John?? All I’ve said was Carter didn’t fill me with confidence defending at 13. That’s not a slight on his defensive ability in general,, just a remark that he’s going to take time to adjust to defending in a new spot. Since when are opinions contrary to your own considered so harshly??
And PHB, I’ll assume you’ve got tongue firmly in cheek…
PastHisBest said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Indeed Brett.
Working Class Rugger said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:37am | Report comment
As always the Tahs have the potential to go all the way. But I have this nagging feeling it will be yet another season of so close yet so far. However, the Tahs have finally the two main aspects to finally crack it. A dominant forward pack ( arguably the most dominant in Super Rugby) and a very attack orientated backline if they get enough ball. Here’s hoping its not yet another year of frustration and angst for long suffering Tahs fans.
OldManEmu said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:47am | Report comment
This is one year where I propose to keep my counsel to myself and say nothing when it comes to maters concerning the championship prosepcts of theTahs……..
Except the following:
1. This is not the strongest Tahs lineup we have seen. Surely that title goes to the 2005 crew that despite having significant (and dare I say perennial) weaknesses at No 10, stormed into the Final only to be denied by what I regard to be the strongest EVER Super Rugby team, the 2005 vintage Crusaders – an All Blacks strength starting side with Mehrtens on the bench. It was a wonder anyone got close. So, the point is that if Tahs fans are getting excited because this is the strongest team we have had – forget that.
2. Other franchises have strengthened up as well. In this category I include the Canes and the Brumbies particularly but also the Sharks and the Stormers. This may well be the most even Super Rugby tournament on record and could come down to bonus points to qualify for the Finals – an area where the Tahs have really struggled of recent times.
3. The Tahs recruits under the microscope. Drew Mitchell; puhlease. Has everyone forgottent eh debacle of last seasons Bledisloe when he shat himself ten metres from the line and threw a wild pass thereby leading to points. He is a smart looking little fellow but a hard nosed pro – he aint. Bring back Rogers, Tuquiri, Hewat, Grey, Turunui or any of the above and I would take them over Mitchell. Berrick Barnes. Why the hype? Has he delivered a consistently good season yet. We cannot say because he has had injury after injury and has played in a poor team to boot. Let’s see him get some runs on the board first hey? And is he a better No 10 than Halangahu – I am far from convinced. Sosene Anesi. On one view of it, if he was any good the Chiefs would not have let him go. nd did he not break his neck a few years back. Dont think he has been the same since. In the forwards we have recruited three largely unkown locks, one of whom Roodt, makes the plank Harrison look like a veritable can of jumping beans. In all I would say that this is no stronger a Tahs side with al the recruits than what we have seen in the past.
4. Coach Hickey is a plodder. No doubt about that. His success at club level came from being a pro coach in a semi pro club in an amateur competition. He is no brilliant Rugby mind nor motivator of men. Nice guy from all reports but that dont cut it. Foley is the glue that keeps the team together from a technical point of view so I hear, and he is a forward coach first and last.
There I have officially shit canned the Tahs. If only I could pull some sort of Jedi mind trick, reverse psychology thingo.
GO TAHS.
Who Needs Melon said | February 9th 2010 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Love it.
Sam Taulelei said | February 9th 2010 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Great post OME, best assessment I’ve read.
ohtani's jacket said | February 9th 2010 @ 11:14am | Report comment
That’s a hell of a lot of world class players floating around Australian sides. Can we expect a Brumbies vs. Tahs final with all this bulging world class talent?
Harry said | February 9th 2010 @ 11:44am | Report comment
The answer OJ is blindingly obvious to any astute and impartial rugby follower.
Its clearly a dead set certainty that the Tahs will meet the Brumbies in the final and the only thing of interest in the preceding 93 games is shich one of these two super teams will host the final?
As to what this misguided and ignorant Reds supporter thinks, from a post above … I am not at all optimistic that any of our (Aus) teams will make the semi’s. Force and Reds will be happy to have a single figure finish, Brumbies scontiue to cruise in their delusional wonderment at their own brillance and position as the only Australian team to have won a Super 12 (see the track record of the last 5 seasons), and the Tahs … well see below.
Chris said | February 9th 2010 @ 11:54am | Report comment
An all Australian final will never happen – even with every decent player crammed into two teams. If it did happen I can barely imagine how electric Bruce Stadium would be.
Central North said | February 9th 2010 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Will the ACT government be erecting big screens to beam the game direct from ANZ Stadium?
Central North said | February 9th 2010 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Might just say Harry in my defence that last post was meant to be taken with a rather large grain of salt…
I just can’t bring myself to use those smiley faces to express sarcasm etc etc
Harry said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:24pm | Report comment
Resist those smileys Central. No I didn’t take it seriously.
I might add that as an Australian rugby supporter I would be absolutely delighted to see the Tahs and Brumbies play of in the S14 final at Homebush! Just can’t see it happening though …
Peter said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:38am | Report comment
As a die hard Brumbies fan I would much rather the final be at Christchurch between the Crusaders and Bulls than in Sydney between the Brumbies and the Joeys old boys. The idea of The Brumbies being denied a shot at the title is infinitely preferable to the idea of the Tahs winning.
Central North said | February 11th 2010 @ 8:32am | Report comment
To Peter below (no “reply” button down there) – what a silly comment. You’d rather NO Australian teams make the final than two? And you’d rather your team have no shot than to be playing for the title against the Tahs? Jeez talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
ballboy said | February 9th 2010 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
Good to see the mud flying before the first game. Beware the green eyed monster my lords.
We all want our own team to win and know more about them than the other teams. we all have a shaded patch over one eye and some have already set themselves up for a big fall. Great!!! Can’t wait. Meanwhile, I’m a very nervous Brumbie supporter. I think we do have the team on paper, have bought well and, despite what some of you think, I think the depth there is awesome. I also think the Tahs have a great pack but a suspect backline. Saders have lost McCaw for the first three games which will hurt them. I could go on but won’t. I’ll now go and sharpen the shovel.
GO THE BRUMBIES!!!
Brett McKay said | February 9th 2010 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
Might be a good time to remind those of us Brumby and Warablah alligned of the proposed Gathering of The Roarers at Homebush on Sat 24 April. Stay tuned for more info as it becomes apparent….
Rickety, I haven’t forgotten mate, I promise!!
ilikedahoodoogurusingha said | February 9th 2010 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
That was the one away game I had promised myself Brett…but now some IDIOT of a friend decided to have a “significant” birthday party on that day. Need I mention that he follows soccer!!
Brett McKay said | February 9th 2010 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
I hope you’ve passed on your best wishes for the night then, Guru
RAKEEF said | February 9th 2010 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
OME love your work…Halangahu…give him a run
matt said | February 9th 2010 @ 5:13pm | Report comment
O.k Some good comments here, but lets look at the forwards issue head to head. If I get some of these selections wrong I am sure roarers will let me know!
Alexander v Baxter – Mmm tough one {tongue in cheek} (although I do see Alexander is playing loosehead this weekend)
Moore v TPN – Both very good. Moore is the test incumbent
Robinson v Ma’afu, Salesi – Robinson daylight second
Chisholm v Mumm – depends who turns up
Harrison v Caldwell? – nothing lighting anyoneś fire here
Elsom v Mumm/Mowem/jowitt/dennis? self evident
Smith v Waugh another no brainer, good as Phil is, heś up against a legend
Hoiles v Palu – On Wallaby pecking order Palu, but if itś an open game Hoiles comes into contention
No reserves listed as I have no idea who will be making the park.
So, other than Palu and Alexander the Brumbies have it on paper. That they were dusted by the Waratahs last week shows that paper is cheap, but I guess we will know when they next meet with their ´A team´ in.
AndyS said | February 9th 2010 @ 5:26pm | Report comment
Well, I would have to say that if it isn’t at least the Tahs and Nags in the finals, or at least thrashing it out over the last few rounds for a berth, one would hope that will be reflected in the composition of the Wallabies. They will have had all the advantages and opportunities to gel, and if they can’t do it together at provincial level…
NickSA said | February 9th 2010 @ 5:56pm | Report comment
quick question, does any 1 know of a website were i can take a look at the starting 15 for this weeks rugby?
Bruce Ross said | February 9th 2010 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
Interesting whenever the Waratahs are discussed how much attention is given to the perceived deficiencies of Tom Carter.
This time Spiro leads off by mentioning that “the coaching staff is into its second season and has a better understanding of what it takes to complete a successful Super 14 ‘journey.” And the sole example he gives of what they have learnt: “that playing a battering ram at inside centre like Tom Carter does not help the continuity game the Waratahs are aspiring to play.” At least Spiro has the virtue of consistency. He has made the same observation on a number of occasions.
Carter has now been shifted to 13 and so we have a new focus for his faults as spotted by Brett McKay:
“I know Carter is talking up his versatility, but the way he defended at 13 in the Brumbies-Tahs trial didn’t fill me with confidence.”
“I never really thought much of Carter at 12, he just didn’t have that creative element you want from a 12, in much the same way Mortlock, Cross, Ashley-Cooper and Tyronne Smith look lost at 12 too. 13 seems to be the right spot for Carter’s game, but I was really surprised how much trouble he had in defence, given that was one of his strong points at 12.”
Against the Brumbies Carter played 40 minutes with a player inside him who had played precisely how many Super 14 games at 12? He readily acknowledges that he was stood up by Franky Fainifo in what I understand was a counter attack situation. Fainifo is a very capable broken field runner.
So if we are to believe Spiro, Carter can’t play 12 because of his deficiencies in attack, while Brett has concluded that he can’t play 13 because of his weak defence.
But are we entitled to write Carter off already as an outside-centre defender on the basis of just 120 minutes of trials?
Let’s look at the percentage of missed tackles for every Australian back in the 2009 Super 14 who made at least 40 tackles during that competition:
Carter 6.7
Turner 12.0
O’Connor 14.5
Fairbanks 14.5
Tuqiri 15.0
Giteau 15.6
Burgess 15.7
Sheehan 16.4
[b]Cross 19.0[/b]
Vaalu 19.1
Lealifano 19.4
Hynes 19.5
Valentine 19.5
Phibbs 20.6
Lucas 21.2
Halangahu 23.1
Faingaa 25.0
Tatupu 25.0
[b]Ashley-Cooper 25.0[/b]
Ioane 25.6
Barnes 25.7
McLinden 27.3
Staniforth 27.7
Toomua 28.9
Horne 29.2
[b]Smith 29.8[/b]
Holmes 31.8
Mitchell 33.3
Beale 33.3
Tahu 37.5
[b]Mortlock 38.0[/b]
Cooper 42.0
In order to take the comparison a step further let’s also look at the number of tackles attempted per 80 minutes played for players who attempted at least 80 tackles during the season:
Carter 12.7
Lealifano 10.7
Giteau 10.0
Valentine 10.0
Burgess 9.7
Barnes 9.6
Cooper 8.8
[b]Smith 8.6[/b]
[b]Cross 7.9[/b]
[b]Ashley-Cooper 7.2[/b]
Tuqiri 6.5
So, on the basis of last season, Tom Carter was far and away the busiest of the Australian backs in defence and also made vastly fewer mistakes.
But, of course, it can be argued that he was playing at 12 in 2009. I have taken the trouble to highlight the defensive performances of each of the players that Brett mentioned as 13s who also “look lost at 12″. Each of the four are Wallabies. Looking at their defensive efficiency it can be seen that Tom Carter could be much less effective defending one position further out and still be a greatly superior defender to any of the four Wallabies.
It is interesting how different people perceive the same situation so differently. John allyne, a Brumbies supporter who also watched the trial, “thought Carters defence was outstanding, including three try saving tackles.” None of us leave our preconceptions behind when we watch a game.
Brett McKay said | February 10th 2010 @ 7:56am | Report comment
Bruce, in light of your interpretations of my comment on Carter’s defence, and John Allyne’s sudden personal attack on me up above, I might expand on my comments somewhat.
Tom Carter has always been a very good defender, probably one of the better defenders at 12 in Australia, and maybe even in the S14 last year.
In saying “..but I was really surprised how much trouble he had in defence, given that was one of his strong points at 12.” I was purely talking about defending at 13 in the trial. The Fainifo break was the obvious one, but there were several other points in the game when confronted by an advancing line, that Carter seemed to take the wrong option. How much of that was to do with Halangahu standing at 12? A fair bit I suspect.
What I didn’t say in the comment, which in hindsight would have made the full point of my comments clearer, was that even the better defenders can have trouble to adjusting to a new position.
Also, just to finish, I wasn’t actually comparing Carter defending at 12 to the four Wallabies whose defensive troubles you’ve highlighted – I was talking there only in terms of attack, that’s also why I said that I feel that Carter’s natural attacking game is better suited to 13, as is Mortlock, Cross, T.Smith, and Ashley-Cooper. In terms of defence, Carter is well ahead of all four, as your stats highlight.
I think Carter could be a very handy 13, but obviously, like all positional moves, it will take him time to get used to it. I’m certainly not suggesting he can’t play 13, nor do I consider him a weak defender. Just wanted to clarify..
Hope that’s intelligent enough for you too, John…
Bruce Ross said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Thanks for the clarification, Brett.
John allyne said | February 10th 2010 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
Thanks Brett for your clarification,
Short-Blind. said | February 9th 2010 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
Geez Bruce those stats will shut a few people up. Look I’ve bagged Carter on other posts but that was based on what he gave last year as a 12……which did limit the Tahs out wide. I hold no grudges against the guy and hope he has learnt, been coached and moves on. I have not seen any of the pre-season games this year and thus cannot comment on his performance as a 13 although from all reports it sounds good. 13 is more difficult to defend in than 12 – more space and runners coming at you requiring a wider field of vision and better anticipation and decision making. But with Carters hard running and smart passes landing in front of him (Barnes/Beale?) he might be the solution – particularly if Horne’s injury problems continue. Good luck to him. Sorry its a slow night.
cookie said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:23pm | Report comment
Jesus Spiro, why the hell do you have to bloody well jinx it now? Everyone was keeping their traps shut!
I’ve seen the line up for the brumbies and it simply confirms what i thought…the most overrated S14 team.
QLD are the dark horse, good backline…if only the forwards can at least hold their own they will take a few major scalps…. probably starting with the tah’s! (thanks to spiro’s jjnx)
The Force are will struggle but put a few decent games together…
The Tah’s for once have decent players from 1-15 and good depth across the paddock. Beale will be guided by Barnes and will take the title of most improved…..hopefully Barnes will teach him how to tackle anything that moves….
Only position I’m wondering about is 13…… Carter will be adequate for a while….but hopefully Horne will be back sooner rather than later.
So come finals it will be the Tah’s, Bulls, crusaders and Storm as habana and whatever the other guys name is that they have gained, will make a huge difference that and i believe they got rid of that show pony No.7
Spiro…yep all the ribbing was tongue in cheek.
Prediction….even if the Tah’s do win or make the final…..Barnes will go to the rebels next year along with rocky and any other decent player off contract from whichever team… Then the Tah’s will be back to their traditional format… decent forwards with useless backs or decent backs with useless forwards…..The one certainty is that the No. 10 will be crap at the Tah’s
Tim Reardon said | February 9th 2010 @ 9:25pm | Report comment
The Brumbies built a culture of being underdogs. The left overs from other states, brought together to create a team much greater than its parts.
Now they are a team of leaders and champions the sum of their parts may be less than they appear.
Hansie said | February 10th 2010 @ 7:21am | Report comment
I love it when the Sydney media starts talking up the Waratahs in advance of the Super 14 season. I reckon the media will stick with the Waratahs until the Waratahs suffer a couple of losses (usually about round 6), then the Waratahs will be the whipping boys. Spiro and Greg Growden usually lead this charge.
Hawko said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:45pm | Report comment
A look at the draw suggests that after what should be a relatively easy win against the Reds (but never is), the Tahs have the Stormers and Bulls away. Stormers are everyone’s smokey this year and most people are picking the Bulls to make the four so these two games could easily be lost. Round 4 we have the Sharks who travel well and will already be over here so only our team will be jet-lagged. We do not get an easy game till round 5 and could easily be 0 for 4 by then and virtually done for the season. I hear Joubert has the Reds game and he is often diabolical and hates Baxter to boot. If Kaplan gets a guernsey in the next three games we will be another down. If we are 4 from 4 going into round 5 I will really start to get excited!, but the season could already be over. This season will not be like last year.
Justin said | February 10th 2010 @ 7:51am | Report comment
I would suggest if you read this article and it eventuates that you can kiss goodbye NSW season!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/waratahs-to-try-phil-waugh-at-no-8/story-e6frg7mf-1225828490353
Surely Hickey cannot be serious having “hands like feet” Phil Waugh playing number 8 at times off the scrum! This is ridiculous and is trying to be too clever.
Bruce Ross said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:39am | Report comment
“‘Sometimes you actually get away from eight because you are not pushing, whereas when you are on the side of the scrum your first job is to push,’ Hickey said.”
Please tell me the coach of the team I support didn’t say that. Or at least that his scrum coach Michael Foley doesn’t subscribe to such nonsense.
At eight “you are not pushing”?? No wonder Australian scrums have been such a laughing stock if the 8 is told not to bother pushing. The ‘Tahs finally get a dominant scrum and the coach wants to depower it.
Who is supposed to maintain the shape of the scrum and control the wheeling tendency if the bloke at the back is just leaning on the scrum, Jone Tawake style?
“On the side of the scrum your first job is to push.” Does anyone at the ‘Tahs know the first thing about biomechanics and the application of force? On the side you are pushing with one shoulder from a body position where you cannot possibly deliver effective force straight ahead. Compare that to the 8 where both shoulders are engaged and the natural force direction is through the centre line of the scrum. Think barbell squat.
What Hickey seems to be trying to say is that ‘Sometimes you actually get away from eight [quicker than] on the side of the scrum”. But even if this were true, the only way that Waugh could get to the ball carrier quicker from 8 than from 7 is if he is defending behind the advantage line.
Ads said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:33am | Report comment
i interpreted this in line with the new “intepretation” of the laws about the tackler. i.e. Palu (from 7) would get there 1st, smash the carrier, and then waugh arriving 2nd (from
has best chance to steal or disrupt (coming through the gate correctly, on his feet, arriving half a second later). Agree with your comments on the dangers of depowering the shove, wheeling, etc though.
Ads said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:36am | Report comment
that was from 8. Got emoticonned for closing my bracket!
Bruce Ross said | February 10th 2010 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
Wouldn’t it be great, Ads, if we could go back in and edit our posts?
PastHisBest said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:40am | Report comment
…and following on from this Bruce, if the scrum wheels to the blind Waugh will find himself miles from the next breakdown. Sometimes I think that the Waratah’s brains trust (and that’s being mighty generous…), are a little too clever for their own good.
Bruce Ross said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:54am | Report comment
As you say PastHis, “if the scrum wheels to the blind Waugh will find himself miles from the next breakdown.” And if Phil is just leaning on the scrum with his head out of it looking to break, there is very little that will stop the scrum wheeling.
inthestands said | February 10th 2010 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
I think everyone’s taking this a bit far and forgetting last year when Waugh often packed in at No.8 on attacking scrums. He also sometimes positioned himself outside the traditional No.8 position, packing in between lock and flanker on occasion.
I don’t see any problem with this dependent on field position and their first planned play.
I think you’ll find Waugh will pack exclusively at openside on every defensive scrum, however, and Cliffy would be at No.8. It is of course on defensive scrums where the release of the flankers is more important.
And what exactly are we doing having a shot at the best pack in the comp? I’m pretty sure Foley gets the final say in the makeup of how the pack will operate, so I’d guarantee this is his call.
PastHisBest said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:39pm | Report comment
“He also sometimes positioned himself outside the traditional No.8 position, packing in between lock and flanker on occasion.”
Isn’t this illegal?
“And what exactly are we doing having a shot at the best pack in the comp?”
We’re not. We’re having a shot at some hair-brained scheme. And besides, that is a massive claim about best pack…let’s examine that shall we:
Palu: Maybe 3rd after Spies and Read.
Waugh: Maybe 5th after McCaw, Smith, Brüssow and Pocock.
Mumm: Maybe 5th after Elsom, Smith, Kaino and Thomson
Caldwell & Jowitt: Geez, maybe nowhere. Any number of locks/second rows ahead.
The fuse: Take your pick
TPN: Behind Moore, Smit, Du Plessis, Hore
Robinson: Possibly the best in the comp. Possibly.
Not for my money inthestands.
Craig said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:35am | Report comment
Spiro,
‘Their first three sides are three of only four teams (the Blues are the fourth side) that have won a Super rugby title.’
To clarify for everyone;
Super rugby (as it is termed) was started in 1993 as the Super 10. It ran for 3 years.
Winners of these were;
1993 – Lions (played as Traansvaal then; played Auckland in the final)
1994 – QLD (played Sharks in the final)
1995 – QLD (played Lions in final)
In 1996 the comp was expanded, and Auckland were the first champs.
So there have been six super rugby winners;
Crusaders, Brumbies, Bulls, Blues, QLD and Lions.
And much like your historic research, your current research is also shabby.
Brumbies will walk over NSW.
PastHisBest said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
Yes Craig, well done. Clap…clap…clap.
However, to clarify for You…generally when we discuss records in ’super’ rugby we are taking the period from 1996 – the start of professionalism.
But I do admire your ‘research’.
Yikes said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:40am | Report comment
Well the team’s been announced. Tom Carter lovers everywhere rejoice (that’s you, Bruce!)
HSBC WARATAHS
15. Sosene Anesi* (TBA)
14. Lachie Turner (Eastwood)
13. Tom Carter (Sydney University)
12. Kurtley Beale (Northern Suburbs)
11. Drew Mitchell* (Balmain)
10. Berrick Barnes* (TBA)
9. Luke Burgess (Sydney University)
8. Wycliff Palu (Manly)
7. Phil Waugh [c] (Sydney University)
6. Dean Mumm (Sydney University)
5. Cam Jowitt*^ (Manly)
4. Will Caldwell (Sydney University)
3. Al Baxter (Northern Suburbs)
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau (Parramatta)
1. Benn Robinson (Eastwood)
Reserves
16. Damien Fitzpatrick (Eastwood)
17. Sekope Kepu (Randwick)
18. Kane Douglas*^ (Southern Districts)
19. Ben Mowen (Randwick)
20. Josh Holmes (Warringah)
21. Daniel Halangahu (Sydney University)
22. Rory Sidey*^ (West Harbour)
Also, Rob Horne is starting in the Junior Tahs vs Brumby Runners match in Canberra on Saturday.
HSBC JUNIOR WARATAHS
15. Adam D’Arcy (Manly)
14. Nemani Nadolo (Manly)
13. Rob Horne (Southern Districts)
12. Tom Azar (Eastern Suburbs)
11. Peter Betham (Sydney University)
10. Ben Seymour (Manly)
9. Brendan McKibbin [vc] (Eastern Suburbs)
8. Locky McCaffrey (Eastwood)
7. Chris Alcock (Gordon)
6. Dave Dennis (Sydney University)
5. Hendrik Roodt (Gordon)
4. Chris Thomson [c] (Warringah)
3. Dan Palmer (Southern Districts)
2. Ben Roberts (Sydney University)
1. Jeremy Tilse (Sydney University)
Reserves
16. Sam Roberson (Sydney University)
17. Ofa Fainga’anuku (Eastern Suburbs)
18. Paddy Ryan (Sydney University)
19. Dylan Sigg (Manly)
20. Ben Coridas (Eastwood)
21. Hugh Perrett (Eastwood)
22. Eddie Bredenhann (Sydney University)
23. Harry Bennett (Eastern Suburbs)
24. Alex Rokobaro (Sydney University)
25. Cam Mitchell (Eastwood)
26. Jacob Woodhouse (Sydney University)
Boerewors_boy said | February 10th 2010 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
You can tell the season hasn’t started, not a shot in anger, and we’re talking abouut the Tahs being contenders again. So many starts, so many dismal endings, choking at the last hurdel, or when the heat is on. They remind me of the Bears of old. The Tahs have to perform on the paddock and survive adversity before the sins of the past are forgotten. The Tahs are perennial underachievers, until they display some consistency and display the mental toughness to win consistently in South Africa and New Zealand, their confidence will be diminished at seson ends whenit counts. Mind you the forward pack looks tougher and more competitive, now if the backs can only score some tries. Bold prediction, if Jowitt stars he will be in Wallabies for 2011.
Even looser said | February 11th 2010 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Why the hell do we need the backs to score the tries? I’ll be very happy with push over tries, ruck & mauls that wear down the oppisiton and see a fatty plop the ball over the line or what ever it takes.
That’s what I’m wishing for this weekend against Qld anyway. I want to see the Tahs take them on in the forwards & grind them into the dirt. Should be a good game.
Terry Kidd said | February 12th 2010 @ 8:39am | Report comment
Agree with most of what has been written so far and as an unabashed Waratahs man I’m full of optimism but expecting disappointment.
Spiro, no mention of the Stormers? I would think they area likely finals team and will be very dangerous at home.
Tah Man said | February 13th 2010 @ 11:05am | Report comment
Only one team can win the competition. Many team have the talent to do so. Let me remind you that the waratahs were FINALISTS in 2008, but after the 2009 season some waratahs supporters got the daggers out. Not everything went our way, and only one team can win the competition. So do we have a public cry about it- about how its not fair. About who is to blame:( SUCK IT UP!
Some players feed off strong criticism. Most dont. If your a waratah fan that is already negative at the start of the 2010 season- shut you gob. We have no room for washed up rugby legends (come couch potatoe) who believe its their duty to bag out new teams, new coaches and younger players because ”back in their day everything was better”. Get over yourselves.
Reds fans feel free to criticise, you are the opponent – but flag your blog as a reds fan so we can fish out the traitors/ sunday supporters among us.
If you are a waratahs supporter take heed to your title and support! Look with hope on what will be a ripper of a rugby season or choose another code fat boy!