Come on Gorden, stop biffing rugby union
By Spiro Zavos, 10 Feb 2010 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Gorden Tallis, Lote Tuqiri, NRL, Rugby League, wallabies, wendall Sailor
211 Have your say
Gorden Tallis was a terrific rugby league player. His charges into opponents, with and without the ball, made you recoil even though you were watching on the television screen. He was handy with his fists, too.
There were any number of iconic moments in his career when he was captured on film smacking into his opponents, with his fists flying in a raging bull mood.
All this was great stuff on the field.
But, unfortunately, he has taken this raging bull mode into career as a former player who sees his role as putting the biff on rugby union in defence of his beloved code of rugby league.
One of things that enrages him most, it seems, is the defection of rugby league players to the dark side of rugby union.
A day or so ago, Gorden was putting the biff once again into rugby union – a familiar rant actually – about the way that rugby union wasn’t concerned about the long term interests of players poached from rugby league.
“They use these players (league players) to get crowds to games and get more publicity,” Gorden fumed, giving rugby union yet another Tallis uppercut. “But when you stop getting them publicity and you mess up, they kick you out.”
This is supposed to be a warning to Jonathan Thurston not to switch to rugby union. The players he seems to be talking about are probably Mat Rogers, Wendell Sailor, and Lote Tuqiri.
Rogers was released from his contract with the ARU when he said he wanted to make a break from his rugby life in Sydney and go back to Queensland and play rugby league there.
Where is the abuse here?
Sailor tested positive for cocaine and was banned for two years. He decided to come back as a rugby league player. The abuse here was clearly that which Sailor inflicted on himself.
Tuqiri had his Wallabies contract wiped out over a disciplinary breach. He has never revealed publicly what this breach was, even though no one has tried to stop him from doing so. He has subsequently played rugby union in England and now has joined the Wests Tigers.
If the breach was serious, then he can hardly complain about his treatment by the rugby union officials.
There is nothing in any of these cases that reflects badly on rugby union. Nor are any of these cases matters where players have been casually and cruelly thrown aside after their marketing value to the rugby union has been exhausted.
In fact, if you look at the history of rugby union in Australia you’ll find that the code has an excellent record of embracing and helping players after their careers are over.
This applies even to players who left rugby union to play rugby league.
The most significant defection from rugby union (after Dally Messenger, of course) to rugby league was Trevor Allan. When Allan retired from rugby league, he came back to Australia. Rather than being ostracised by the rugby union game, he was, for many years, a revered rugby union commentator on the ABC.
Lloyd McDermott was the first Aboriginal to play for the Wallabies. He switched to rugby league to put himself through law school. Now a successful QC, McDermott runs an annual camp for Aboriginal youngsters based around a special rugby union side.
Going to the NSW Waratahs launch a couple of days ago I spotted Ken Wright, a Wallaby who then turned to rugby league, and now involved in rugby union matters.
And who is that coaching the Australian Sevens side? Michael O’Connor, that’s who. O’Connor is another Wallaby who went across to rugby league and has since been embraced again by the rugby union community.
Where is the “you mess up, they kick you out” in these cases?
The fact is that rugby union has a much better record of looking after former players (even those who decided for whatever reason to play ‘the greatest game of all’) than most other codes. Tallis is wrong to make the accusations he makes.
If he wants to retain any credibility, he should stop talking this nonsense.
His ludicrous (malacious is probably a better word) accusations invite the response that rugby league should look at its own history before putting the biff on rugby union.
Rugby league owed an enduring debt to the great Dally Messenger. He was the prize convert from rugby union and gave the new rugby league code in Sydney in 1908 a needed star attraction.
To refresh Gorden Tallis’ memory of how much the rugby league code cared for Messenger in his retirement, when he could no longer put bums on seats with his glorious play, here is a paragraph from Jack Pollard’s entry on Messenger in his magisterial history of Australian Rugby, The Game and the Players.
“There was a public outcry when the NSW Rugby League decided to charge him (Messenger) for the room he occupied at the Leagues Club in Phillip Street. Dan Frawley, who was the club’s chief steward, called the League officials, ‘a pack of ignorant and ungrateful bastards.’ The dispute was settled when Dally’s son paid the rent for him, in defiance of advice from his father’s friends and supporters.”
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- Explore:
- Gorden Tallis, Lote Tuqiri, NRL, Rugby League, wallabies, wendall Sailor


rugbyfuture said | February 10th 2010 @ 2:07am | Report comment
its a given you have greater autonomy with this site but this is gonna be one of the big articles for dispute methinks. even i’ll stay outta this.
matt said | February 10th 2010 @ 6:06am | Report comment
Gordon Tallis one of the true thinkers of our time.
Iĺl never forget how Gordy and the boys cleared out a bar in Brisbane one night with behaviour that had to be seen to be believed. This is what happens when you live in QLD and are treated like a god.
Billo said | February 10th 2010 @ 6:35am | Report comment
I think that league supporters do have some justified resentment about the discrimination practised over the years by rugby administrators in the old amateur days, but I agree with Spiro that Gorden’s comments are silly in themselves, and are designed purely to deter league players, and Thurston in particular, from switching codes.
As it happens, I also think Thurston should stay put in rugby league, but not for the reasons Gorden sets out.
oikee said | February 10th 2010 @ 7:07am | Report comment
I think Gordon was saying the league players who mess up in union get thrown away into the too hard basket spiro.
The names you mentioned, most of them did nothing wrong, i know O’Conner was clean as a whistle.
You yourself know that rugby league caters for the working class, so our challenges are far greater than rugby union’;s.
You only have to look no further than league’s One Community to see that rugby league is a great concept for undeprivaliged youth. Hopefully league players can earn better dollars over the next 10 years, then you wont have to worry about such nonsense.
On the whole, rugby league does not buy established union players, full-stop. Union started this whole affair, they should never had started buying established league players. Juniors are fine, nobody misses them as they have not seen them play, but once you start buying class players, fans get annoyed.
I think you would find that most league supporters mistrust rugby union(not just Gordon Tallis), and if you look back through history, there is good reason for this.
Mr Mac said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:13am | Report comment
Oikee
How short on history you are
Until the professional era in Rugby Union all the traffic was fron Union to League.
Spiro mentioned a few but there are others like Russell FairFax, the Thornetts – to the tune of about 2 or 3 high profile players each year,
Since professionalis in Union we have had half a dozen League high profiles
oikee said | February 10th 2010 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
Mr Mac, my good man, and i would say to you that our so called upper ecellon is smarter than they look. They took the money on offer. Guess what, the lower ecellon are also smart, and pretty, and they too are taking the dollars on offer. Nothing to do with sport really now dont you think. Well i have never seen a convert i admire. Maybe o’conner, but he was really a league player of the future, rugby league learnt from his brilliance.
Anyhow, enough of that, i dont want to turn this into a argument. Rugby league is where union wants to be, the hearts and minds of the aussie public, full stop.
Siva Samoa said | February 10th 2010 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
australia only . full stop
Sth Auckland 1st XV said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:43pm | Report comment
So Rugby Union wants to be where League is – that is a no name sport played and followed seriously in two Australian states and two English counties? Yeah Right. The combined catchment of league worldwide is smaller than one third the population of one major Uniion market, South Africa – yeah rugby union really wants to be like that!! Go back to smoking that hobbit weed buddy
Jim Wilson said | February 10th 2010 @ 5:07pm | Report comment
But isn’t union in South Africa on a major sport to the 3 or 4 million minority white population.
Anyway from an Australian perspective the aggregate cumulative TV audience (for the season just ended) for RL was 128.5 million whereas union got about 10 million. Or in other words for every person who watch RU 13 watched RL. The no name sport really flogged union didn’t.
SA said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:22pm | Report comment
Im afraid thats not correct Jim, South Africa has more players of colour playing rugby than white SA’s.
PastHisBest said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
“from an Australian perspective’
Yeah? So? SA1stXV was comparing it globally. Context Jim, context.
Siva Samoa said | February 11th 2010 @ 10:23am | Report comment
what no name sports is that jim wilson ? did you add the audience of rugby union in nz and south africa as well since they are all in the super 14 competitions ?
you don’t have any ideas about rugby union in south africa jim. there are more coloured rugby union players in south africa than there are coloured rugby league players on this planet.
Ken said | February 11th 2010 @ 10:15am | Report comment
no name sport? it does have a name….
2 Australian states? the ACT will be most disappointed. Not too mention that either of those Australian states are more populous than your whole country (significantly so in the case of NSW)
All member measuring aside, what’s the point you are trying to make anyway? Yes Union has a bigger catchment internationally than League but table tennis has a far bigger catchment than Union and I don’t think that’s especially relevant either. Fact is Union in Australia would be ecstatic to have a quarter of the support League does… and guess what, to those of us living here that’s far more important than measuring the support in South Africa
Jerome said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:27am | Report comment
You’re right oikee league doesn’t and never has bought established union players. They have no history what-so-ever of buying established union players….
Rickety Knees said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:00am | Report comment
What about the followng Wallabies that were bought by League – Ray Price, Russell Fairfax, Stephen Knight, Michael O’Connor, Brett Papworth, Tony Melrose, Ken Wright, John Ballesty, John Brass in recent memory going back further Rex Mossop, Dick Thornett, Ken Thornett, Trevor Allan and the list goes on – were they not established union players?
oikee said | February 10th 2010 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
All of them you can keep, except for maybe O’Conner and Pricey, not that the biff monster Price was a good image, but O’Conner as i mentioned, left a good legacy.
.
Also, if they were doing super human feats in rugby Union, the public was quitely unaware You code being ametuer and all hey.
True Tah said | February 10th 2010 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
Remember it was ex-Welsh RU internationals which kept British Rugby League competitive for so long.
MyGeneration said | February 10th 2010 @ 3:50pm | Report comment
I think that’s a bit of a stretch.
Sth Auckland 1st XV said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
No stretch at all – over half the players in the British league hall of fame were previously Welsh Rugby Union internationals
MyGeneration said | February 10th 2010 @ 7:22pm | Report comment
There are three Welsh-born players in the British Rugby League Hall of Fame. None were Rugby Union internationals. They are Billy Boston, Gus Risman, and Jim Sullivan. All became Rugby League players as teenagers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rugby_League_Hall_of_Fame
What is the basis of your statement, Sth Auckland 1st XV?
King of the Gorganites said | February 10th 2010 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
u must be pretty gutted that RL is all but dead in Wales? no one in the valleys plays the game. professional RL had to retreat to the north of the country, a stone throw from RL heartland. the fact is RL failed in Wales
Sam el Perro said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:08pm | Report comment
Looks like Sth Auckland is from the Siva school of truth.
Siva Samoa said | February 11th 2010 @ 10:26am | Report comment
the same school of truth you belong to sam. pretending to be a rugby union fan.
Hansie said | February 10th 2010 @ 7:14am | Report comment
Gorden’s comments are pretty rich. He didn’t show much loyalty to St. George when the Superleague dollars were waved around. And didn’t he play some club rugby in Brisbane during the Superleague dispute?
formeropenside said | February 10th 2010 @ 7:55am | Report comment
Tallis was going to turn out for GPS in 1995 but decided against it in the end.
Its funny to see how the Leaguies carry on after years of poaching from Rugby: Rugby just sucked it up and went on, but the League boys cant seem to untwist their knickers over it. Oh well.
Billo said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:05am | Report comment
I’m not too surprised the leaguies get upset with us when they see comments like that.
The league mob didn’t ‘poach’ players from rugby, they paid them when we refused to do so, at least officially.
League, for all its faults, has never been a dishonest sport.
Roger said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:35am | Report comment
So you are saying that league development officers and clubs turning up to grade, colts and schoolboy union games for 90 years and throwing around fulltime contracts is not poaching!!?? Please…
Poaching does not insinuate dishonesty, it insinuates that League, rightly or wrongly has plundered union’s develoment ranks for a long long time, and still does so. Granted, some could day union’s development structures should counter league’s advances with $ of its own, but is that the point?
Ken said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:01am | Report comment
‘turning up to grade, colts and schoolboy union games for 90 years and throwing around fulltime contracts…’
Turn it up! 20 years ago even most of the elite league players had jobs outside of footy. True fulltime professionalism of League was only a handful of years in front of Union. Any money that might have been paid to up and coming schoolboys would have been bugger all for the majority of that 90 years
Roger said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Not sure about that ken…granted and true, widespread fulltime contracts might NOT go back 90 years, but contrary to the theory that League was saving amateurs from being exploited without pay by union, League since its creation has also used the $$$$ as a lure to amateurs to swap codes.
As to “bugger all $” being paid historically, wasnt it League that offered union players $ for time off work as well as medical costs that created this whole ruckus. Sure it wasnt much $, but enough to create a new code.
MyGeneration said | February 10th 2010 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Roger, if you think about it, it was actually union players deciding they needed compensation and forming their own version of the same code. It didn’t start out as a new code. I know it’s pedantic, but no-one was swapping codes (initially, and certainly not in England in 1895). And, as I’ve said below, no-one was necessarily looking at making a living by playing football, just not being sent broke by playing football.
Ken said | February 10th 2010 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
Roger, I don’t think anyone here would dispute the basic premise of the split was based on the amateur-professional split. Union types blame the split on the ‘mercenaries’, League types blame it on the stuffy officials who wouldn’t release any of the income being generated to the players (especially for injuries) to maintain the pretense of amatuerism.Both sides had their point of views, hindsight probably says that League had the right idea.
Regardless of all the hype though, until around the late 80′s/early 90′s it’s common knowledge that most league players held down other jobs. While it’s likely impossible to verify I highly doubt that in that environment that young, potential players were being showered with money. The truth is that for about 100 years in Australia, League has offered better pathways and more opportunities than Union.
Sam said | February 10th 2010 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
I think that the formation of the Northern Union in 1895 in England was definitely a case of players just wanting compensation for missing work. They even had strict rules regarding payments – and did not consider this professionalism. However by 1907 when the game spread to NZ then Australia, professionalism was legal – although clearly mainly semi-amateur as they couldn’t afford to pay all their players full-time wages. Why do you think they changed the rules? They wanted more people to attend matches to increase revenue to pay the players didn’t they? When league was established in Australia there was more an air of professionalism, and it was quite entrepreneurial, and helped greatly because the NSWRU wouldn’t pay players medical costs (or insurance if memory serves me right).
The Answer said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:14pm | Report comment
Typical Union arrogance that any kid playing colts could cut it in rugby league. Remeber it took some leaguies to teach you blokes how to tackle and the union juniors targeted are few and far between.
Big Kev said | February 11th 2010 @ 12:03am | Report comment
hmmm…. like former Kangaroo Timana Tahu – he really taught the Union boys how to tackle! worst defensive display in the history of the Wallabies. Wendell, Rogers and Lote were not much better defenders.
Siva Samoa said | February 11th 2010 @ 10:29am | Report comment
is that why samoan rugby union international brian lima taught the nz warriors and samoa rugby league players how to tackle and hit hard ?
Siva Samoa said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:52am | Report comment
those rugby union players would never have switched to rugby league if they weren’t approach by the league clubs and agents.
The Answer said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:09pm | Report comment
Techincally true, however once approached they were pretty happy to make the switch. No one had a gun put to their head.
Roger said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:43pm | Report comment
No gun just $$$$, thats why its called poaching and not kidnapping.
Sth Auckland 1st XV said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
I’m a kiwi – who is Gordon Talisman? Never heard of the bloke
M1tch said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:04am | Report comment
somebody standing up for rugby league and dissing rugby union, what has the world become..
didnt spiro have a go at rugby league’s crowds of the 4 nations with the aussie tour of UK?
hmmm
Brian said | February 10th 2010 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
Cmon – they were laughable – they would have got more people if the Kangaroos were a comedy troop.
Matt S said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:12am | Report comment
“rugby just sucked it up and went on” Try telling that to numerous union players who were banned from their sport and even incidents had their faces blacked out on club wall team photos and weren’t allowed to step back into club houses. Rugby league never paid a cent of central funds to assist clubs to buy union players, and continue to this day to reject the call from some clubs to do so. A big difference! Union use central funds, like a war fund dispensing with the enemy. There was/ is nothing wrong with league having signed union players in the past. For many in Australia it was a return to their original game (Lewis, Stuart to name some) and in England, players sick of seeing some favoured few get royal treatment, to earn a decent living or to get away from rugby politics or a mix of the aforementioned (Billy Boston).
The league ‘pillage’ to most part is another union fallacy in similar vein to the communists under the bed scare campaign Rugby did not just suck it up. They were vandictive a-holes.
Sth Auckland 1st XV said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
League doesn’t pay for Union players, because it doesn’t have any money, why? Because it doesn’t make any money. It makes losses all over the place, from NRL clubs to 4 Nations, where is the money?? THERE IS NONE!!! When was the last time the NRL or a league club opened up it’s books for the public to see where all the money is going?? Union can buy league players because it makes a profit, even in poor seasons like last year.
Realist said | February 11th 2010 @ 1:58am | Report comment
“League doesn’t pay for Union players, because it doesn’t have any money, why? Because it doesn’t make any money. It makes losses all over the place, from NRL clubs to 4 Nations, where is the money?? THERE IS NONE!!! When was the last time the NRL or a league club opened up it’s books for the public to see where all the money is going?? Union can buy league players because it makes a profit, even in poor seasons like last year.” — Sth Auckland 1st XV
Utter crap. If you truly believe the tripe you just trotted out then you ought to be committed.
The ARU will only gain about $140 million from its 5-year contract with SANZAR. The current NRL teal earns over $100 million per year!
The next rugby league television deal is estimated to be worth $200 million per year! One of the spearheads from Channel Seven, David Leckie, said the network is going to put in a serious bid for rugby league’s television rights and, that sports like rugby union, cricket and soccer are going to be left on the outer because the commercial FTA TV networks are primarily interested in the ARL, SOO, RL Tests and AFL. This means your second-rate sport is going to be in an even worse position than it is now.
“Cricket, rugby and soccer will all be sidelined by these deals..
“Whoever gets the AFL deal will pay too much. Whoever gets the league rights will pay too much.
…
“It will leave nothing for the rest of them.” — David Leckie. Herald Sun, Dinner with a $2 million bill
Spare me the lecture about how well rugby union is doing overseas. Talking about rugby union’s status outside of Australia is completely off-topic. Go to a global rugby union forum if you want to talk about your sport’s imaginary “global” status. The purpose of this site is to talk about sport in Australia.
Siva and yourself try to divert attention away from rugby union’s pathetic profile in Australia because neither of you can stand the fact that rugby union is dying in Australia! It really angers Siva because he lives in a state that a) loves rugby league and b) couldn’t care less about rugby union.
Rugby union football — Australia’s most unliked game of all!
Siva Samoa said | February 11th 2010 @ 10:33am | Report comment
the nrl might be getting $100 million a year but it also spend almost as much to run the tournament every year. that’s why most nrl clubs never makes money. just because the nrl would be getting $100 million a year it doesn’t the clubs will get richer. lucky your not my accountant.
Anon said | February 11th 2010 @ 10:42am | Report comment
Do people on the dole need accountants?
Realist said | February 11th 2010 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
“lucky your not my accountant.” — Siva Samoa
Lucky you’re not an English language teacher!
stillmissit said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:13am | Report comment
Gorden Tallis never struck me as the sharpest tool in the shed, why worry about him? We get stuck into league players all the time about their partner beating, group sex and shitting in hotel corridors let them have a go back – seems only fair to me.
Hammer said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:25am | Report comment
On behalf of all blunt tools I resent being lumped in a grouping with Gorden Tallis.
Matt S said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Continuing on this line, if Thurston wants to go let him. In instances we are seeing union use league players for promotion/hype purposes and it is starting to backfire. Just look at Willy mason. He was made to look like a fool. In reality, interest in him was zero. He was a pawn of greedy player managers and union flexing its financial muscle.
If I was a union supporter I’d be angry that central funds are used in this way when it is clear that those funds should be directed into grass roots etc. Thank goodness, the NRL doesn’t listen to some doomsdayers out there and continues to manage vital funds in an appropriate way.
Siva Samoa said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:09am | Report comment
what does rugby union got to do with willie mason ? he obviously used rugby union clubs to get a better deal from the nrl clubs and it backfire on him. not one rugby union club was interested in him and his visit in japan was only a smoke screen to up his money.
im happy he stayed in rugby league becuase he wont make it in rugby union. he’s to unfit and to dumb to play rugby.
True Tah said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
I can recall Willie saying that he was offered a chance to play for the All Blacks.
PastHisBest said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:57pm | Report comment
Oh yeah, that would happen.
MyGeneration said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
Surely Willie and Justin Harrison would make a great team!
Brett McKay said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:21am | Report comment
I don’t know if Tallis offered these comments voluntarily, or if he was asked a question. I suspect it might have been the latter, and if that’s the case, it may well have been a journo looking for a headline.
If it was the former, however, then you’d have to ask why the comments were made at all?? This whole Thurston thing had died down about 10 days ago after it became evident that his manager was working hard to extract some offers.
So why does Tallis suddenly feel the need to make stereotypical comment now?? What does it add??