Come on Gorden, stop biffing rugby union
Columnist By Spiro Zavos, 10 Feb 2010 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Gorden Tallis, Lote Tuqiri, NRL, Rugby League, wallabies, wendall Sailor
211 Have your say
Gorden Tallis was a terrific rugby league player. His charges into opponents, with and without the ball, made you recoil even though you were watching on the television screen. He was handy with his fists, too.
There were any number of iconic moments in his career when he was captured on film smacking into his opponents, with his fists flying in a raging bull mood.
All this was great stuff on the field.
But, unfortunately, he has taken this raging bull mode into career as a former player who sees his role as putting the biff on rugby union in defence of his beloved code of rugby league.
One of things that enrages him most, it seems, is the defection of rugby league players to the dark side of rugby union.
A day or so ago, Gorden was putting the biff once again into rugby union – a familiar rant actually – about the way that rugby union wasn’t concerned about the long term interests of players poached from rugby league.
“They use these players (league players) to get crowds to games and get more publicity,” Gorden fumed, giving rugby union yet another Tallis uppercut. “But when you stop getting them publicity and you mess up, they kick you out.”
This is supposed to be a warning to Jonathan Thurston not to switch to rugby union. The players he seems to be talking about are probably Mat Rogers, Wendell Sailor, and Lote Tuqiri.
Rogers was released from his contract with the ARU when he said he wanted to make a break from his rugby life in Sydney and go back to Queensland and play rugby league there.
Where is the abuse here?
Sailor tested positive for cocaine and was banned for two years. He decided to come back as a rugby league player. The abuse here was clearly that which Sailor inflicted on himself.
Tuqiri had his Wallabies contract wiped out over a disciplinary breach. He has never revealed publicly what this breach was, even though no one has tried to stop him from doing so. He has subsequently played rugby union in England and now has joined the Wests Tigers.
If the breach was serious, then he can hardly complain about his treatment by the rugby union officials.
There is nothing in any of these cases that reflects badly on rugby union. Nor are any of these cases matters where players have been casually and cruelly thrown aside after their marketing value to the rugby union has been exhausted.
In fact, if you look at the history of rugby union in Australia you’ll find that the code has an excellent record of embracing and helping players after their careers are over.
This applies even to players who left rugby union to play rugby league.
The most significant defection from rugby union (after Dally Messenger, of course) to rugby league was Trevor Allan. When Allan retired from rugby league, he came back to Australia. Rather than being ostracised by the rugby union game, he was, for many years, a revered rugby union commentator on the ABC.
Lloyd McDermott was the first Aboriginal to play for the Wallabies. He switched to rugby league to put himself through law school. Now a successful QC, McDermott runs an annual camp for Aboriginal youngsters based around a special rugby union side.
Going to the NSW Waratahs launch a couple of days ago I spotted Ken Wright, a Wallaby who then turned to rugby league, and now involved in rugby union matters.
And who is that coaching the Australian Sevens side? Michael O’Connor, that’s who. O’Connor is another Wallaby who went across to rugby league and has since been embraced again by the rugby union community.
Where is the “you mess up, they kick you out” in these cases?
The fact is that rugby union has a much better record of looking after former players (even those who decided for whatever reason to play ‘the greatest game of all’) than most other codes. Tallis is wrong to make the accusations he makes.
If he wants to retain any credibility, he should stop talking this nonsense.
His ludicrous (malacious is probably a better word) accusations invite the response that rugby league should look at its own history before putting the biff on rugby union.
Rugby league owed an enduring debt to the great Dally Messenger. He was the prize convert from rugby union and gave the new rugby league code in Sydney in 1908 a needed star attraction.
To refresh Gorden Tallis’ memory of how much the rugby league code cared for Messenger in his retirement, when he could no longer put bums on seats with his glorious play, here is a paragraph from Jack Pollard’s entry on Messenger in his magisterial history of Australian Rugby, The Game and the Players.
“There was a public outcry when the NSW Rugby League decided to charge him (Messenger) for the room he occupied at the Leagues Club in Phillip Street. Dan Frawley, who was the club’s chief steward, called the League officials, ‘a pack of ignorant and ungrateful bastards.’ The dispute was settled when Dally’s son paid the rent for him, in defiance of advice from his father’s friends and supporters.”
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- Gorden Tallis, Lote Tuqiri, NRL, Rugby League, wallabies, wendall Sailor
February 10th 2010 @ 8:34am
Jay said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:34am | Report comment
The ARU’s handling of Tuqiri and Tahu has been very poor. With Tuqiri, all the ARU needed was an excuse to get rid of him, given he was contracted long-term on a multi-million dolar deal, yet couldnt find a place for him in the wallabies side. The ARU have paid him out, but there was a motive to get rid of him… Just look at what happened to Mortlock when he questioned he ARU’s decision over this affair.
Tahu was slightly different. He was mis-managed.. but he could have been anything in union. His decision to leave would have been a mutual one (to be fair).
February 10th 2010 @ 9:44am
True Tah said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Jay
I think Jean de Villiers helped Tahu make his decision.
February 10th 2010 @ 3:02pm
Brian said | February 10th 2010 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
haha classic
February 11th 2010 @ 8:00pm
Hansie said | February 11th 2010 @ 8:00pm | Report comment
I’m still waiting for an explanation from Coach Deans as to why he threw rookie Tahu in against the Springboks, at #12, at Ellis Park? On what possible basis was that coaching decision justified?
February 10th 2010 @ 4:27pm
Working Class Rugger said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:27pm | Report comment
Jay
It wouldn’t be that when it came down to it he just couldn’t cut it. The same could be said for Sailor, Rogers and Cross. They perform well in Super Rugby but when given the opportunity in the National colours just couldn’t rise to the occasion.
February 11th 2010 @ 10:26am
Ken said | February 11th 2010 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Rogers played 45 games for the wallabies, Sailor not far behind on 37. They were selected in the national teams for the majority of the time they spent in the sport – the selectors obviously felt they were doing OK in national colours.
Cross was a solid 1st grader only in RL and never looked like playing Origin or for Australia. That he was considered a star in Super Rugby and played for the Wallabies at all tells a story.
February 11th 2010 @ 10:40am
Siva Samoa said | February 11th 2010 @ 10:40am | Report comment
if those two players (rigers and sailor) you mention were sign and paid for by the australian franchise they wouldn’t have made it into the wallabies. the fact is that john o’neil made a mistake and he make sure they got picked even if they weren’t good.
there are millions of former and current born and bread rugby league players who wish they played one game of nrl and wish they played professional rugby league.
tell us a story of an amateur rugby union player by the name of martin offiah who made it big in rugby league ?
February 11th 2010 @ 12:45pm
Ken said | February 11th 2010 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
The idea that Rogers and Sailor only played because of the big bucks paid for them is a weak argument. The money was already spent and letting the team go down the toilet because of it would have been extrememly short-sighted. Neither were world-beaters but Rogers in particular was occasionally Australia’s lone attacking spark
Martin Offiah – fond memories of the year he ran around for St George. Not sure of the relevance though, just checked his biography and he switched codes at 20. He hadn’t made any rep teams but then his rugby career was extremely brief so that’s hardly a black mark against him. He went on to represent England in RL of course and I think it’s safe to say that if he’d been playing Union he very likely would have had a prosperous career there too.
This is not the same as Ryan Cross who played 100+ NRL matches over 6-7 years and was not in the running for a rep jumper
February 11th 2010 @ 2:33pm
Working Class Rugger said | February 11th 2010 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
Cross a star in Rugby. Mate, not a chance. He’s a solid enough S14 player. His presence in the Wallabies has only ever been a stop gap solution when Mortlock wasn’t there. And only because at the time we really didn’t have any other choice. Rogers came off the bench for most of his Wallaby caps. And Sailor was more of a marketing exercise. Their records show that they clearly weren’t anything special.
February 12th 2010 @ 12:41pm
Ken said | February 12th 2010 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
I said a star in Super Rugby, he was player of the year for the Force in 08 or 09 I think – not suggesting he was a national star but he has played a bunch of tests. My only point was that in a substantial RL career he didn’t trouble the scorers for Rep teams. It’s not a huge point anyway, regardless of your affiliation I doubt anyone would argue that there is more depth in Aus RU playing ranks than there is in Aus RL.
Sailor and Rogers we’ll have to agree to disagree to an extent since this is all subjective. Sailor was probably given time to settle in but I think he held his own after that. For mine, Rogers actually seemed more dangerous and creative when I watched him in Union than he was before or since in League.
February 12th 2010 @ 12:53pm
rugbyfuture said | February 12th 2010 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
also to point out cross was actually trained in Rugby at Waverly in the juniors, so it might be likely he is more suited to the game through many years of playing it.
rogers was too weak built to last, thats why he left, coz he was getting f**ked up.
Sailor was a bit useless when it came to defense but he still had some fine skills of his own (hogging the ball)
February 11th 2010 @ 1:02pm
MyGeneration said | February 11th 2010 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
Except that time Sailor and Rogers were part of the back three (with that other guy) in a World Cup Final. I guess that was a fluke. Pity they couldn’t rise to the occasion at Rugby’s number one event (sarcasm). Yeah, being part of a team that lost a World Cup Final in extra time is a clear failure (more sarcasm). I’m not saying they were perfect, but it’s a ridiculous assertion to say they couldn’t rise to the occasion. And what’s the emoticon for sarcasm, again?
February 10th 2010 @ 8:56am
Ollie Finebrace said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:56am | Report comment
Rugby union caters to a select group of Australians. If you’re not white, or of the upper middle classes you’ll always find it very difficult to fit in with those who would just as comfortably sneer at you as they would pass the ball to you. Union needs to fix that problem before it will ever have the wide appeal that every other code in this country has.
Rugby League is not a working class game, no matter how union types would wish it were so. It is a game that appeals to people from all walks of life, and it just so happens that the majority of people in this country are working class.
A snobs game, and one that Aboriginal people like myself will never truly embrace whilst by its very nature a majority within the game look down upon us, and think that it’s fine to do so.
February 10th 2010 @ 9:24am
Timmypig said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:24am | Report comment
Actually Ollie I’d have thought that rugby has a pretty diverse playerbase. My school team was pretty white bread, but that’s the Sutherland Shire for you. My uni and army teams though, have been real melting pots. At uni I played with Fijians, Tongans, Samoans, Kiwis, Indigenous Australians, Poms, Yanks, Japanese, Jappies, Scotsmen; surgeons, barristers, army officers, security guards, students (obviously), union reps; working class, middle class, westies, surfies, North Shore, inner city indie rock types, etc etc etc. My army team was less diverse but like the Sutherland Shire the army isn’t as diverse as society is.
Rugby certainly has a perception of being all hoitie-toitie and upper middle class, but the reality is far different. Jump in mate! The water’s fine …..
February 10th 2010 @ 4:29pm
Working Class Rugger said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
Ollie
BS. I have played Rugby with and against Islander’s, Kiwi’s, Greeks, Italians, Asians and even Indians.
February 10th 2010 @ 4:55pm
Sth Auckland 1st XV said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:55pm | Report comment
Ollie mate, you’ve obviously been walkabout in the sun too much buddy. Union is a game owned by the people, for the people. Union is run by people elected by ordinary rugby players. Normal blokes who have full time jobs and families. Look at who owns league – fat guys in suits (to quote Willie Mason), businessmen, millionaires and TV channels. League’s not a game of the people – it’s a business unit of News Limited. look at the facts man!
February 10th 2010 @ 8:36pm
Anon said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:36pm | Report comment
How about the fat guys in suits that own most of the British and French Union clubs, or don’t they count Siva?
February 10th 2010 @ 8:36pm
Springs said | February 10th 2010 @ 8:36pm | Report comment
No, that’s who owns the NRL, just like how fat guys in suits control the ARU. The game I play in my backyard or at the local sportsground is not owned by News Limited.
February 10th 2010 @ 7:41pm
Norm said | February 10th 2010 @ 7:41pm | Report comment
Exactly right Ollie. For the edification of Timmythepig & Auckland reserves here’s a story in today’s SMH that illustrates the tone and direction of rugby officialdom in Australia.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/unions-failure-to-nurture-indigenous-stars-20100209-npty.html
February 11th 2010 @ 10:25am
Timmypig said | February 11th 2010 @ 10:25am | Report comment
Norm here’s part of what Ollie said:
” If you’re not white, or of the upper middle classes you’ll always find it very difficult to fit in with those who would just as comfortably sneer at you as they would pass the ball to you.”
I take that to mean who is next to you on the field, and around the bar after the match with a beer and a steak sarnie. If Ollie was referring to the suits who run the game – then more power to him. I didn’t read it that way. I read that SMH article and agree with it to an extent. But my experience playing Subbies with the rugby club of a top tier Group of 8 university found a very very diverse (culturally, ethnically, socially) group of players and local managers.
February 10th 2010 @ 7:59pm
CraigB said | February 10th 2010 @ 7:59pm | Report comment
I’m pretty sure Jim Williams and the Ella’s would disagree with you. Spend some time at the bottom of an old fashioned ruck and I’m sure you’ll see this ‘class’ divide is all a myth
February 10th 2010 @ 9:03pm
Norm said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:03pm | Report comment
After 110 yrs you can identify just 4 names. You undermine your own argument.
February 11th 2010 @ 2:23am
Realist said | February 11th 2010 @ 2:23am | Report comment
”If it wasn’t for the Polynesians in Sydney club rugby, there wouldn’t be rugby union,” Evans said. ”But the system is still very white, Anglo-Saxon, teacher-schoolboy.
”I sit with the NSW and Australian Rugby Union community rugby and the whole office is very white Anglo, yet if you have a look at the player roster of all these teams, the Polynesian influence is massive.” Tom Evans. Sydney Morning Herald, Union’s ‘failure’ to nurture indigenous stars
February 10th 2010 @ 9:12am
Harry said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:12am | Report comment
For what its worth, I think the problems with Tuquiri stemmed from the ARU making a terribly extravagent deal with Lote and his agent in early 2007. The then under-pressure CEO Flowers was already being berated (shamefully IMO) for not signing Andrew Johns (and how would that have ended?) and was under pressure to keep what was then the game’s star player and number one attraction, so agreed big big money to keep Lote. This turned out to be an over-payment and O’Neill, somewhat ruthlessly, jettisonned Lote when the opportunity came, from Lote’s own actions.
I think Tahu’s problem was that he is injury-prone, and he also had the huge disadvantage of not playing in a “feeder” competition like the ARC before being thrown in to the deep end at S14 and test level. Tahu’s best rugby union was actually played in his last games for NSW in South Africa last year, when they went undefeated and Tahu was outstanding. But I think he knew he wasn’t up to test level.
As to Gordon, its a free country, he can say what he likes. I actually agree with him that Thurston should stay in league.
February 10th 2010 @ 9:15am
Siva Samoa said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:15am | Report comment
there are many many many polynesians rugby players in nsw and queensland playing rugby union. the only problem is the gps system is now outdated that aru has to make sure all schools have a crack at winning the nsw and qld school titles.
February 10th 2010 @ 4:00pm
oikee said | February 10th 2010 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
Oh Siva, yes their are hundreds of thousands of Poly’s in our 2 states, most of them now follow rugby league, along with their Moari brothers my man.
I know plenty of these guys, and guess what, they all realise that rugby league is the way forward, not union in this country. I am not saying you dont have Poly players in Union, but hey, go have alook down in Sydney west my man, its Poly capital, and these guys are league nutters.
Now i have something for you to digest, AFL and Rugby League are looking to Africa and America, we have moved on my man, time you did i think.
Good equasion,,, ” did i think” work that one out.
February 11th 2010 @ 2:20am
Realist said | February 11th 2010 @ 2:20am | Report comment
It’s the same up here in Logan City. The Polynesians in Logan wear rugby league jerseys, not rugby union.
February 11th 2010 @ 10:46am
Siva Samoa said | February 11th 2010 @ 10:46am | Report comment
i supppose you weren’t at logan brothers rugby league club where the pacific islands rugby union village comp was played between october and december ? many polynesians and maoris support and play rugby union. the same in new zealand . there are ten times more pacific islanders and maori playing rugby union than rugby league. lets make it easier for realist .there’s more pacific islands and maori rugby union players in nz than there are rugby league players in the whole of new zealand.
February 11th 2010 @ 11:02am
Springs said | February 11th 2010 @ 11:02am | Report comment
Was it ever about New Zealand? At my club there are probably 20 or 30 or more players over the 4 teams that are polynesian. So that must mean there are 300 Union players here? Even though there is one club for the district compared to about 5 League clubs.
February 11th 2010 @ 11:10am
Siva Samoa said | February 11th 2010 @ 11:10am | Report comment
which clubs and region are you talking about spring ?
February 11th 2010 @ 11:17am
Springs said | February 11th 2010 @ 11:17am | Report comment
Group 20 – Riverina
February 11th 2010 @ 10:56am
The Bush said | February 11th 2010 @ 10:56am | Report comment
Are you saying that rugby union doesn’t have a presence in African and the America’s? I would say that their presence is gigantic compared to the presence of AFL and Rugby League… So I don’t follow your point Oikee?
Whilst I might agree that Rugby Union has to move on from it’s traditional ‘strong-holds’ in Australia, I don’t think there is any need to recruit from Africa and America like the NRL and AFL may be attempting (or the AFL anyway). These countries already have large player bases, in fact some countries have huge player bases, their players will come if they want. Or in the case of SOUTH Africa they will play at home… So again I don’t get your point about ‘moving on’.
These argument about what sport Pacific Islanders who have immigrated to Australia prefer is pointless. Both Union and League boast a significant presence in their communities.
Realist,
I was born in Logan City and grew up there. I agree there are many Polynesians playing Rugby League, but Logan Rugby is also dominanted by people of Polynesian decent or birth. They may not have a premiership side, but whenever I’ve watched them play at all the other grades it certainly isn’t a team filled with white-boys…
February 11th 2010 @ 11:06am
Siva Samoa said | February 11th 2010 @ 11:06am | Report comment
the bush. has logan city got that deal with the university to shared grounds yet ? looking forward to logan joining the brisbane rugby premiership in the near future. i think realist forgot to metion to us why the logan scorpions had too merge with souths in the queensland cup a couple of years ago.
February 11th 2010 @ 4:11pm
The Bush said | February 11th 2010 @ 4:11pm | Report comment
Siva,
Unfortunately I’m not up on the latest information with regards to Logan as I moved roughly five years ago. However it is only a matter of time before they are able to retain enough of their players from the juniour grades to field a cmpetative side and be accepted into Premier Grade. It was a constant source of annoyance to many of us that all the best talent would head to Sunnybank or Easts just for a free pair of boots (that might be a slight exaggeration). But then again, who can blame them? I don’t.
February 11th 2010 @ 11:06am
Working Class Rugger said | February 11th 2010 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Oikee
Asia and Africa. Mate, read The Bush’s comment below. Rugby already in both of those continents and growing fast.
February 10th 2010 @ 9:55am
MyGeneration said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:55am | Report comment
I don’t know which code is better at looking after former players (I’m sure there are successes and failures on both sides), but Spiro’s Dally Messenger story ignores the fact that the whole point of Rugby League in the first place was to make sure players were looked after properly while they were still playing, specifically for “broken time”, time off from work due to injuries incurred playing football. I’m sure the players weren’t looking for a retirement fund in 1908, just a means for playing footy in the present without going broke.
Apart from that, I don’t think there is much controversial about what Tallis is saying, although maybe he’s not putting it the best way. He’s saying to Thurston that by making yourself a mercenary, no-one will give you any benefit of the doubt if you don’t perform for a period of time, especially in a code where you don’t have a history. Right now, he can have a few off games for the Cowboys, and he will still be a God because of his history with the team. Look what happened to Lote after he became the $6 million man. As soon as he hit a slump, the pressure was on ten-fold. Look at David Beckham in LA, and that’s not even switching codes. Conversely, when Garrick Morgan went to Rugby League, did anyone pay him much mind when things didn’t work out? I guess you’ve just got to decide whether it’s worth the money, and many will decide it is (when you’re talking Becks’ kind of money, probably not a hard one).
February 10th 2010 @ 10:47am
Mr Mac said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:47am | Report comment
RL looking after it own – one G Langlands – Changa
Have a look at Todays SMH at the way sports business – RL being one of four entities – is covering its arse.
Its not even justice just $$
February 10th 2010 @ 11:37am
MyGeneration said | February 10th 2010 @ 11:37am | Report comment
Yeah, not good. Not sure how it relates to my post, though.
February 10th 2010 @ 11:40am
Mr Mac said | February 10th 2010 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Your first sentence “I don’t know which code is better at looking after former players”
February 10th 2010 @ 12:00pm
MyGeneration said | February 10th 2010 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
‘(I’m sure there are successes and failures on both sides)’ – it was kind of an introduction, but I see your point.
February 10th 2010 @ 9:56am
sledgeross said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Look, Im a league fan, but please disregard anything Tallis says. The “myth” of the “raging bull” is really a load of crap. Want a back rower who gobs off at refs and opponents, runs at the opposition centres, punches a Pom flush in the face 5 times without dropping him, and drags 70kg fullbacks over the sidelines, then Gordys your man. If he were a NSW its doubtful he would played too many rep games.
February 10th 2010 @ 7:47pm
OldManEmu said | February 10th 2010 @ 7:47pm | Report comment
Right on SR
February 10th 2010 @ 10:03am
southernwaratah said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:03am | Report comment
From recollection an ex “league” player that became a Wallaby that ran into trouble was looked after fairly well by the ARU… One Andrew Walker… Unfortunately we didn’t even tap into his playing potential
February 10th 2010 @ 10:15am
MyGeneration said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:15am | Report comment
He went back and forth a few times. Didn’t he start with Randwick, though?
February 10th 2010 @ 11:16am
southernwaratah said | February 10th 2010 @ 11:16am | Report comment
Where from, who saw him first is Irrelevant, the point is that the ARU gave him a home long after his cocaine and walkabout antics
February 10th 2010 @ 11:31am
reds fan said | February 10th 2010 @ 11:31am | Report comment
sure did. after his stint with the Reds, he continued playing club rugby with Easts in Brisbane and was considered a leader by the young blokes. not sure if he is strapping on the boots again this year.
February 10th 2010 @ 2:38pm
Hoy said | February 10th 2010 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
I heard Walker was playing for one of the Q Cup clubs, but I can’t remember which one.
Saw him playing for Easts last year, still going good. Got the ball on a string…
February 10th 2010 @ 10:10pm
Siva Samoa said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:10pm | Report comment
andrew walker sign with a suburban club playing in the ipswich rugby league competition. he sign with goodna .
February 10th 2010 @ 9:06pm
Short-Blind. said | February 10th 2010 @ 9:06pm | Report comment
not bad for a bro from shoalies rugby in Nowra who used to mix it with the cus’s at summer cloud bay…was always bound to go walkabout without the right mentoring in the big smoke. talent to burn though and ends up respected by most. well done AW.
February 10th 2010 @ 11:38am
MyGeneration said | February 10th 2010 @ 11:38am | Report comment
As the NRL did with Wendell.
February 10th 2010 @ 12:20pm
reds fan said | February 10th 2010 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
they sure did. i was very impressed with Wendell upon his return.
February 10th 2010 @ 10:12am
GM said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:12am | Report comment
Southern Waratah, Not that it matters but Andrew Walker represented Country Rugby at the age of 16. He was a rugger before a mungo.
February 10th 2010 @ 10:13am
Go_the_Wannabe's said | February 10th 2010 @ 10:13am | Report comment
Money talks, b*shit walks…….move on……next topic.
February 10th 2010 @ 11:47am
Wylie said | February 10th 2010 @ 11:47am | Report comment
While he might not be much of a fan – I’ve always thought Tallis would have made a great flanker.
February 10th 2010 @ 12:09pm
southernwaratah said | February 10th 2010 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
And what a scary sight he would have been running across field off a scrum looking for an inside centre to snap in half