Cipriani could open door for rest of the world
Roar Rookie By matt manley, 21 Feb 2010 manley is a Roar Rookie
- Tagged:
- Danny Cipriani, Melbourne Rebels, Rugby Union, Super Rugby
The move of Danny Cipriani to Melbourne is a beautiful thing for rugby. It might seem like Melbourne is bringing in a mercenary from the North; a big name player to put butts in the seats. This is only partially true.
What they are truly getting is a raw talent that will benefit from playing the game in the Southern hemisphere. In turn, he can truly live up to is potential.
The Northern hemisphere has the money and facilities, but fail to develop talent completely.
The level of skill in the Super 14 blows all the Northern comps out of the water. It has to do with the speed and intensity of the Super 14 game, and an emphasis on ball handling.
If you watch the matches in Europe, teams win through tactics and physicality. Skill, especially in the backline, is just not an obvious point of focus. Much of it could be contributed to the weather, but that really isn’t much an excuse.
What Cipriani’s move does for England could be something special. He could be molded into a top class five-eight through the forge of Super 14 fires.
Playing that Southern-style will open his eyes to attacking possibilities. The speed of the game will take some getting used to, but once Cipriani acclimates, his skill set will be complete.
The greatest issues concerning Cipriani are his intentions to return to England after his stint in Melbourne is complete.
England manager Martin Johnson has told Cipriani that his move South has effectively removed him from contention for England selection. Why Johnson would do this to himself is anybodies guess.
Cipriani will be a better player for his time in Australia. Bringing him back into the England set up would only benefit the team. This is yet another example of the narrow-minded English view of the world.
Granted, I am generalizing as there are a great deal to very talented rugby people in Europe. However, if the measuring stick on a rugby nation’s success is Test victories and World Cups, then the North is way, way behind the South.
I suppose Johnson feels he has a pass because he captained the 2003 Rugby World Cup England side.
However, this is a special opportunity. Not many of the Super 14 sides allow foreigners into their sides. Be having a density of local talent, you assure the national teams are stocked with experienced players.
The last thing the Southern hemisphere wants to do is open the doors to Northern talent, train and refine it, only to send it back to Europe with heads full of Southern secrets.
However, let’s think of what it would mean to Super rugby if the doors where open to foreigners.
First there is the economic benefit. More publicity could only benefit the competition’s profile globally which would help merchandise sales. Fans will want to follow their favorite players on television, so the ad revenue would increase.
Second is variety. If there is one thing that is a draw back to Super rugby, it is seeing that same players playing each other again and again and again.
Adding some spice to the teams would increase excitement from year to year. Players should be allowed to move between Super franchises at the very least and if you coupled that with European talent, it would be a very unique competition.
Lastly are the uncharted territories. The United States is a hotbed of athletic talent and economic wealth. If Super were open to foreign talent, it could tap into that.
The US sits between Europe and the Southern powers. If Super rugby were established in the US, they would have an extra ally against the powers that be in Europe.
When it comes to the IRB, the South lacks a powerful voice because it doesn’t carry the economic clout of their European counterparts. A country like America could swing that in their favour, but only if the US is firmly entrenched in favoring the Southern hemisphere’s style of play.
Hopefully Danny Cipriani’s move will allow those who in charge of Super rugby to see how much more dynamic the sport could be if it allowed on open trade of talent across boarders.
Fingers crossed, a US Super team?
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- Explore:
- Danny Cipriani, Melbourne Rebels, Rugby Union, Super Rugby
February 21st 2010 @ 12:59am
rugbyfuture said | February 21st 2010 @ 12:59am | Report comment
nooooooooooooo
the reason super rugby is closed, is to retain our talent for our national teams. letting in foreign players like that would be idiotic, it won’t do a thing. The way some of the english papers are writing this up, shows a tremendous disrespect on their part for super rugby, they think its overhyped and useless.
Merchandise won’t grow if this happened either. the reason english teams etc sell into australia is because they’re all so massive and insuler. we pay attention to the world, especially in regard to sports in australia.
seeing some players play for the same side over and over again is part of the system, it happens in england too, doing this would mean you’re seeing foreign players play for the same team over and over again.
Leave US development to USA rugby, canadian rugby and other related unions, they know their pace, and they’re doing a tremendous job as it is.
February 21st 2010 @ 1:26pm
Matt Manley said | February 21st 2010 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
You have to admit seeing Daniel Braid and Sosene Anesi playing for Australian sides is nice to see. Imagine Dan Carter playing for the Tahs or Bryan Habana on the wing for the Reds. It could happen if the SANZAR nations simply allowed for inter-country exchange of talent within the Super 14. If Super rugby is going to maintain long term interest, it should be more flexable and consider some changes.
Here in the US, where professional sports are a played to a global audience, the international flavor has done wonders for the sports. Take the NBA for example.
This years games have been a blast, so maybe I’m just full on it.
February 21st 2010 @ 4:53pm
rugbyfuture said | February 21st 2010 @ 4:53pm | Report comment
in the US though its THE top league and THE best paying league, SANZAR don’t have that fact. Cipriani only came here for a bit more peace and quiet over what hes got over there and the “reasonable price tag” waldren stated it as suggests it wasnt for much.
February 21st 2010 @ 2:28pm
Brett McKay said | February 21st 2010 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
Matt, I think it’s an innevitability that restrictions on foreign players will be lifted among the SANZAR countries. While I originally thought we’d just see open slather, and have South Africans playing in Australia, and New Zealanders in South Africa and so on, all while retaining their national eligibility, I could live with each Super team being limited to a handful of SANZAR imports.
The next (Super 15) broadcast deal may be the catalyst that brings the move to fruition..
February 22nd 2010 @ 2:12pm
Rusty said | February 22nd 2010 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
Having foreigners play in SA is nothing new, to mind we have had frenchman, kiwis, fijians, scots, tongans, australians and argentinians ply their trade domestically and at super level. I think it does add a bit of glitz per se but would be more attractive if the audience can identify with players in the oppositions team. So the lifting of the playing restrictions between SANZAR partners would be amazing but lets be honest I doubt the flood gates on marque players would open due to monetary restrictions. There is higher probability of younger talent being shipped around but this could lead to a bit of open poaching which wouldnt sit well with certain unions. To maintain the status quo there should be some form of transfer fee involved or we could say have the Brumbies poaching locks from Boland while the Sharks get a flyhalf from Christchurch with no benefit to the feeder union.
February 22nd 2010 @ 12:19pm
King of the Gorganites said | February 22nd 2010 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
i dont agree with you RF. we should encourage international players into our super teams, espically since there is now another team. it can only be a good thing for the game. wouldnt you like to read (as you cant watch) interesting international players partaking in super rugby?
February 21st 2010 @ 2:45am
Viscount Crouchback said | February 21st 2010 @ 2:45am | Report comment
The north focusses on tactics and physicality?
Quite right.
But what does Cipriani struggle with?
Tactics and physicality.
He’s running away from what he finds difficult; it’s as simple as that. He’ll doubtless improve his already magnificent skills even further in Australia, but the basic question marks over him – tackling, bottle, game management – won’t be answered in the south.
He won’t come back more rounded; he’ll be more one-dimensional than ever.
February 21st 2010 @ 12:44pm
Sam said | February 21st 2010 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
He can’t come back more one dimensional then the current England crop. Last years end-of-year Tests were disgraceful, and one try against Italy is pretty pathetic. It seems he is far to different from the Johnson idea of a kicking, 10-man rugby playing first-five. There seems to be a lot of debate in the UK press about why/should he go to the Rebels, but it certainly sounds like it is worth a shot to me. I’m sure if he starts playing more like a Carter / Giteau / Barnes type player England will be better off for it.
February 21st 2010 @ 11:53pm
Wavell Wakefield said | February 21st 2010 @ 11:53pm | Report comment
Sam,
who of the current England crop is one-dimensional? Are you referring specifically to 10s?
Did you know that during the last year end of tests that England had 25 players absent and yet still only lost to Australia and NZ by 9 and 13 points. That is hardly earth shattering when you consider the shellackings that Wales and France received.
What is the Johnson idea of a kicking 10-man rugby? Are you suggesting that a kicking plan has been the England ethos under Johnson, or simply against Italy? Do you know the average kicking stats from recent tests involving Italy, Sam?
February 22nd 2010 @ 7:51am
Sam said | February 22nd 2010 @ 7:51am | Report comment
Who in the England squad isn’t one dimensional?
February 22nd 2010 @ 8:55pm
Wavell Wakefield said | February 22nd 2010 @ 8:55pm | Report comment
I could list various players, Sam, but judging by your unwillingness to engage in discussion I suspect that you don’t actually know a great deal about English rugby, and would simply prefer to troll.
February 23rd 2010 @ 2:18pm
Sam said | February 23rd 2010 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
Speak for yourself. I couldn’t name any, but that isn’t because I’m ignorant of English rugby.
February 22nd 2010 @ 4:41am
Pajovic said | February 22nd 2010 @ 4:41am | Report comment
Agreed.
February 21st 2010 @ 12:41pm
Matt Manley said | February 21st 2010 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
I hadn’t considered the fact that Cipriani might take a step backwards, but I suppose the could happen…
February 21st 2010 @ 12:55pm
Sam said | February 21st 2010 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
I think it will probably help him, if for no other reason then it gets him out of the goldfish bowl he currently lives in. He seems to be under enormous pressure, when he made his England debut a lot of people in the media (as seems to happen in the UK) pronounced him as the next big thing and the saviour of England attacking play. Living in Melbourne where all the media attention is focused on the AFL, and in a team where he isn’t expected to perform miracles may help him a lot.
As for the foreign player thing; I think having a few is a good idea. Adds variety and I think Australia will struggle for depth without some foreign players. Having a 4th team hasn’t done much for all that Australian talent? Certainly hasn’t helped the Wallabies. Fill the gaps with non-Aussies I reakon.
February 21st 2010 @ 2:15pm
allblackfan said | February 21st 2010 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
what does it say to the outsider (say a NH follower) about Aussie rugby when the teams are full of imports?
At one point duirng the Force-Hurricanes game, I played an impromptu game of “spot the Aussie” when the two front rows came together in the scrum. I lost (on a technical point of law). I picked Matt Dunning — but technically Matt was born in Canada. I played this game with Queensland as well (although you guys can have Quade Cooper; he’s an idiot!).
!! So that makes 7 sides for NZ
NZ is on the point of laying claim to two more Super sides (Qld and Force)
February 21st 2010 @ 5:28pm
Onceinawhile said | February 21st 2010 @ 5:28pm | Report comment
Looking at it that way, Samoa/Tonga/Fiji can lay claim to a couple of the NZ sides too then!
February 21st 2010 @ 3:10pm
sheek said | February 21st 2010 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
I actually think Cipriani’s acquisition is a pretty good number one signing. I especially like the fact he approached the Rebels, & is apparently coming here for less money than he would get in England. That would suggest he’s joining the Rebels for the right reasons.
Cipriani is a true pioneer/explorer/frontiersman. I admire anyone with that kind of spirit of adventure.
The truth is, into the future, all the southern hemisphere teams will have more & more cross-fertilisation, not only amongst each other, but also from the northern hemisphere.
My only concern here is that the dominant nationality principle remains. In other words, perhaps 5 non-Australians can be signed to each Aussie province, but no more. Ditto same principle for NZ, SA & Argentina when they come onboard.
February 21st 2010 @ 3:43pm
hammer said | February 21st 2010 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
But obvious flaw in that statement is the kiwi teams don’t need import players – I doubt there’s 1 Aussie currently playing that any NZ team would actively look to picking up – why waste money on average players when you’ve got the likes of cruden, Patterson, Robertson coming through
The NZRFU have been firm on their stance of not selecting external players – and the policy works for them – just because Aussies want it doesn’t mean it will happen
February 21st 2010 @ 9:20pm
Short-Blind. said | February 21st 2010 @ 9:20pm | Report comment
Hammer have you ever considered that as the centre of SH rugby talent it may be in the NZ players best interest to be able to play for other SANZAR nations yet still have the chance to play for the AB’s. They and their families may like the Perth/Durban/Brisbane lifestyle over the grind of Dunedin? You may be right about Kiwi sides not wanting to import but why restrict your own player’s ability to having some fun in the sun yet still be able to sing GDNZ in a test match. Selfish attitude by NZRU and ARU as well. Bokkies are ahead of us on this one. DC was a special case, but the only one.
February 21st 2010 @ 9:52pm
Justin said | February 21st 2010 @ 9:52pm | Report comment
I’ll name two to start – Genia and Robinson.
February 21st 2010 @ 10:32pm
Sam Taulelei said | February 21st 2010 @ 10:32pm | Report comment
“Selfish attitude by NZRU and ARU as well.”
But one supported by the NZ Rugby Players Association as they realise the debilitating effect relaxing eligibility restrictions would have on NZ’s domestic competitions, particularly with Super rugby expanding. Steve Tew has reiterated this year that the NZRU will not be changing their position on NZ players playing in NZ to be eligible for national selection.
If anything the bending of the rules to enable Luke McAlister to play for the All Blacks highlights the difficulty for players based overseas to adjust, no matter how talented they are. I also remember how Butch James and Victor Matfield also struggled with playing under the ELV’s in 2008 when they returned from Europe.
While playing in other SANZAR countries isn’t too foreign for players in Super rugby, a change to the status quo effectively reduces the NPC and Currie Cup competitions to being feeders for Super rugby teams in all three countries and particularly for Australia with no national competition of their own and the talent being spread thinly between five teams from 2011.
SA allow European based players to still be eligible for Bok selection but not any player playing Super rugby in another country. Greg Rawlinson and Clyde Rathbone when pursued by SARU had to return to play rugby in SA if they wanted to be a Springbok.
February 22nd 2010 @ 2:25pm
Rusty said | February 22nd 2010 @ 2:25pm | Report comment
Its worth mentioning that although we allow for the picking of foreign players – in the PDV world it will only be as a last resort e.g. “fark we only brought 2 crap TH props with us and one is the captain!!”
February 22nd 2010 @ 7:48am
sheek said | February 22nd 2010 @ 7:48am | Report comment
Hammer,
It’s true NZ rugby is strong enough not to import overseas players. But into the future it will be about acquiring ‘marquee’ players. It will be about money. And NZ doesn’t live in a bubble.
For Australia, overseas players will be necessary to shore up shortfalls. But the future for rugby will be similar to football, with all local competitions exhibiting international players. The better comps – Zurich Premiership, Heineken Cup, French Top 14, Magner’s League & Super Rugby – will attract the better players.
But like it or not, this is the future. As previously stated, my only concern is that there is a cap on cross-fertilisation, so that national domestic teams still exhibit a majority of local players in their squads.
February 22nd 2010 @ 9:43am
Hammer said | February 22nd 2010 @ 9:43am | Report comment
So sheek – what you’re saying is that in the future – the W/cup will be the be all and end all of international rugby – a 4 yearly showpiece and the remaining internationals will take on “friendly” status – like what we see with football …
because there’s no way that the intense international game we see now will be able to continue when the top players are spread theroughout the globe playing for various clubs / franchises given the timings of the various seasons – sure there’ll still be the tri-nations and bledisloe games .. but they’ll be without the likes of Dan Carter, McCaw, Mortlock etc because they’ll be contracted overseas and only be released by the clubs for specific matches and not for tournaments that run for over a month …
I can’t see NH talent being lured down here until the money becomes equitable .. sure you’ll get the odd Cipriani – a bloke so far on the outer at present that a whole number of factors come into the decision – but the rest of the players, those at peak of their game, will want to try and play for their country – and if you play Super rugby the timing is against you re 6N’s … and long may that continue
the NZRFU have recognised that the need to stick firmly to their guns on this topic otherwise potentially their domestic game will become a backwater – and as long as they control their S14 teams they won’t be making any changes to that rule … it’s not in the NZRFU’s remit to make it easy for the Waratahs to become succesful that’s why Sosene Anesi is the calibre of player that the Australian teams will only be able to grab well into the future
February 21st 2010 @ 6:22pm
gurudoright said | February 21st 2010 @ 6:22pm | Report comment
But it is not a collective thing, each of the SANZAR nations have their own independent rule on picking players externally as well as import players, it all just happens to but the same ruling.
I like the idea of having a 2-3 rule for the SANZAR franchises. That is allowing them to sign two players from outside SANZAR ie NH and 3 foreign players from the other 2 SANZAR nations. So in total in may have up to 5 foriegn players playing your team. You don’t have to have 5 imports but if you want you can. I would love to see O’Driscoll and Habana coming out to play a season or two with the Tah’s playing in a backline with Barnes, Mitchell and Anesi against a Force team with Pretorious and Bastarneud playing in a backline with Harris and O’connor and McCaw alongside Sharpe and Pocock in the pack.
I know it probably won’t ever happen but I think it would be good to have a little , not too much, international flavour to our side
February 21st 2010 @ 8:44pm
Gatesy said | February 21st 2010 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
Some great points, Matt,
A couple of facts:
Another great 5/8 cut his teeth in Australia – Rob Andrew and he came back from his time at Gordon to put Australia away in 1995 at the RWC, all the better for the experience.
Martin Johnson is not necessarily secure in his position – what he says about Cipriani should not be taken as holy writ!
Your point about USA Rugby is well made and, from my reading of the tea leaves, the sleeping giant is waking up a bit faster than we thought, because there is now a groundswell (albeit very small at the moment) of NFL players, or guys just below that level, beginning to recognise Rugby – can’t happen fast enough as far as I am concerned. (Actually, I think that the Rebels, should go across to the States and recruit some athletes (not necessarily Rugby players and take a punt on them).
We, in Australia think of Rugby as being just one of four codes, but in the world sense, we are only one of two – and the other one, Soccer, has long ago stopped worrying about stopping player movements. Your best guys go where the money is, and it strengthens the overall fabric of the game – then the administrators structure the game worldwide in such a way that those guys are available to play internationals when required by their country, because they created a “window” for internationals.
Rugby can learn a lot from that, and we should abandon the types of “head in the sand” philosophies that are prevalent now, though to be fair, we are only 15 years old as a professional sport. Rugby will, most likely move to a global Rugby Season (I think we’re almost there, now) and then ARU can drop its guard about overseas players and the like. They just need to get the “contract signing windows” aligned, and they’re almost there.
I’m sure that the Australian Soccer Federation long ago gave up worrying about the fact that they nurtured a Kewell or a Cahill or a Neill or a Schwartzer, only to see them go overseas. So what?
JON – take note. You can’t fight natural evolution, and you shouldn’t be parochial.
As a Rugby bloke, I look forward to seeing Cipriani under the stewardship of MacQueen and if, in a subsequent RWC, he singlehandedly sinks the Wallabies, then so be it and, as they say “Rugby will be the winner on the day…”!
February 21st 2010 @ 10:58pm
ohtani's jacket said | February 21st 2010 @ 10:58pm | Report comment
Considering Martin Johnson learnt some of his trade in NZ, his attitude towards Cipriani is somewhat strange. I can understand him not wanting to select Cipriani if he’s playing in Australia, but I don’t see what the problem is with Cipriani going. I doubt he’ll stay for long.
February 21st 2010 @ 11:30pm
Colin N said | February 21st 2010 @ 11:30pm | Report comment
Did he say he had a problem with Cipriani going? I thought he simply said he wouldn’t be selected for the England squad if he left?
Johnson’s situation was slightly different to Cipriani’s, as he hadn’t played international rugby and I don’t think he was a regular first team player for Leicester.
Quite a lot of English clubs have sent players who are on the fringes of the first team to New Zealand or Australia during England’s off-season.
February 21st 2010 @ 11:52pm
ohtani's jacket said | February 21st 2010 @ 11:52pm | Report comment
Well, depending on who you listen to he doesn’t seem to care whether Cipriani stays or goes, so I guess he doesn’t have a problem with it.
February 22nd 2010 @ 7:54am
Sam said | February 22nd 2010 @ 7:54am | Report comment
He said he won’t select players that cannot play in the Six Nations – so even though Cipriani will be avaliable for end of year and mid-year Tests he won’t be selected. Seems spiteful to me – if he is the best player for the job he should be selected.
February 22nd 2010 @ 8:00am
Justin said | February 22nd 2010 @ 8:00am | Report comment
Sam – the S15 season will be played from Feb-August I think so he wont be available for any Tests except in December, although they wont pick him anyway.
February 22nd 2010 @ 9:59am
Sam said | February 22nd 2010 @ 9:59am | Report comment
There are breaks in the season for the June internationals – remember the SH teams need their players for those tests too.
February 22nd 2010 @ 7:01pm
Colin N said | February 22nd 2010 @ 7:01pm | Report comment
“Seems spiteful to me – if he is the best player for the job he should be selected.”
And when Mauger and McAlister left New Zealand after the world cup, was it ‘spiteful’ that they weren’t selected because they were considered the two bests 12′s in the countries?
February 22nd 2010 @ 7:04pm
Sam said | February 22nd 2010 @ 7:04pm | Report comment
No, because it was a policy applied to everyone – no player was singled out. The NZRU made the decision many years ago not to select overseas based players, not the All Blacks coaches.
February 22nd 2010 @ 3:49am
Ian Noble said | February 22nd 2010 @ 3:49am | Report comment
Johnson’s reaction is understandable, he has got enough problems without worrying about Cipriani. However, don’t kid yourself he will watch Cipriani’s progress and if there was an injury during the build up to RWC 2011 and he needs a replacement and Cipriani is playing well, it is only a short hop across the Tasman.
As far as I am concerned there is no downside to his move, he needs to expand his game and a couple of seasons in a new environment will be good for him. He is only 22 and if he returns to play in Europe, and it could be in France, it will be good news for England for RWC 2015, when he will be only 27. As the academy structure is at last beginning to produce decent players, there will be more opportunity for Super 14 teams to look to England for overseas players. After suffering a shortage of professional English players, the scene is changing and more English players have moved to France to increase their earning potential with the Super 15 being the obvious next step. Those that have moved have been replaced, in the main by seasoned English registered players but with an increasing tendency to bring through the new generation of emerging academy players. By the way, Andy Goode has just signed for the Sharks.