Stephen Jones should stop trashing the Super 14
By Spiro Zavos, 1 Mar 2010 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
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The Usual Suspect just can’t stop himself trashing Super 14, the best and most attractive provincial rugby competition in world rugby. There was Stephen Jones using his bully pulpit of the prestigious UK Sunday Times last week trashing, for umpteenth time, Super 14 rugby.
He used the bewildering Lions (RSA) – Chiefs (NZ) match two weekends ago at Johannesburg, where 137 points were scored with each side scoring 9 tries, to launch an equally bewildering attack on Super 14 rugby: ‘I’ve often written of the dangers of chasing the concept of entertainment in rugby. It made a complete joke of Super Rugby and it is in grave danger of doing so all over again.’
He called Super Rugby ‘tripe’ ‘sickly’ ‘a shambles’ and ‘pap rugby’.
The culprits are the dreaded SANZAR administrators (code for John O’Neill, the ARU CEO that Jones frequently rants about). The Super Rugby referees, Jones pontificates, fear ‘their paymasters would be on their backs if the game did not yield around 15 tries minimum.’
The problem with all this ill-informed ranting is that encourages die-hard British officials to resist any reforms to make rugby a fast, skillful, hard-tackling spectacle.
Moreover, it does not stack up with the reality of the hard facts about Super Rugby. In the first round of the 2010 Super 14 tournament there were 15 tries fewer than the first round of the 2009 tournament.
In their first two matches, also, the NSW Waratahs scored exactly two tries.
And when the Chiefs played a side that tackled in the third round, the Western Force, even though that side was without a number of its best players, the Chiefs were able to score a grand total of four tries.
The Lions were only able to score two tries against the Hurricanes (NZ).
Where were the 15 tries a match in all of this Jones is claiming is mandated for Super 14 matches by the SANZAR officials?
Jones is so determined to trash Super 14 rugby that he is prepared to make an elementary mistake of logic. It was obvious to everyone that the Lions-Chiefs result was an exception to the usual Super Rugby matches where strong defence plays a major part in deciding the out-come of matches.
Exceptions do not create their own rule, as Jones seems to believe. They prove the rule, as the old and true adage maintains.
The Lions – Chiefs match was a one-off match played at altitude with a South African referee, Marius Jonker who was not on his game (his poor form afflicted the NSW Waratahs this weekend, as well, with different results), and by two sides who decided that tackling was not part of their rugby requirement for this particular match.
The fact is that you can have a high-scoring match and still have much more ferocious defence than any Six Nations side is able to replicate (with the possible exception of France).
There were 86 points scored in the terrifically exciting, fast-paced match between the Bulls (48) and the Waratahs (38). But each side had to earn their tries.
The Waratahs played a wonderful first half but were unable to clear out on the Bulls, mainly because they lost the penalty count 5 – 3.
In the second half the Bulls smashed their way into the lead. They were extremely lucky to get some fortunate decisions from the referee. Joel Stransky noted twice in his commentary that kickable penalties that should have gone to the Waratahs and would have given them the lead towards the end of the game were not given to them.
The Waratahs showed enough, though, against the Bulls to suggest that they should be a force in this year’s tournament, provided they continue to play the running game they attempted against the Bulls.
Luke Burgess was designated Man of the Match, a strange decision in my opinion. He ran strongly occasionally. But he almost always takes the wrong option. His passing remains poor. It would be interesting to see how Josh Holmes would go as a starter for the Waratahs when they are in their running mode.
Rob Horne came on towards the end of the match and made a tremendous break. It’s time for Tom Carter to give way to Horne to give the backline some pace and penetration in the centres.
The ACT Brumbies, too, were impressive with their 19 – 17 (points not tries, Mr Jones) against the Stormers (in RSA). The two tries in this enthralling, fast-paced and hard-tackling match came in the last 3 minutes.
The week before the Brumbies had been leading the Bulls before they conceded 7 straight penalties from the local referee, Mark Lawrence. For long periods of play against the Stormers, with the South African referee Craig Joubert officiating, the Brumbies did not bother to contest the rucks and mauls.
A problem for the Brumbies is that they although they are well-coached and have some star players, they lack a mongrel, dominating pack and great speed out wide.
As for the Reds and the Western Force: the Reds have improved this season so they should be off the bottom and somewhere near the middle of the competition. Former players like Brendan Cannon claim that the last placed Western Force are well-coached. But …
With Scott Staniforth back, why didn’t Mitchell play him at inside centre with James O’Connor at first-five? The Highlanders moved Jason Shoemark, a similar player to Staniforth, into inside center with great effect.
Any coach who buys Sam Harris for his squad and then plays him twice at first five-eighths is in pixie land, in my view.
You can’t help feeling, as well, with the Western Force that there are still major issues between the coach and his players. The squad is playing like a team that is not prepared to do and die for the cause.
So far, after three rounds the Bulls are leading the tournament and look like far and away the best balanced, best-coached side in the tournament.
But they are yet to play out of Africa and we will see then if they are the force they are at altitude.
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pothale said | March 1st 2010 @ 5:44am | Report comment
Imagine that – a NH journalist taking potshots at SH rugby.
Extraordinary behaviour. Of course it would never happen on here…..
Sam said | March 1st 2010 @ 7:36am | Report comment
Come on Stephen Jones is the equivalent of a troll – just he gets to publish his rubbish in a newspaper.
matt said | March 1st 2010 @ 5:46am | Report comment
¨The Brumbies lack speed out wide¨..umm…how about Fainifo?
scarlet said | March 1st 2010 @ 6:00am | Report comment
Why bother to perpetuate the argument Spiro?
There are different styles played in different countries, in part due to history, in part to weather and pitch conditions. If we could move to something resembling a global season we would all benefit as players and spectators – it would also reduce the level of bickering, but then again, maybe not.
I enjoy total rugby, strong forward engagements, strong scrummaging and exciting back play. We often see this in the Heineken Cup, Tri Nations, Six Nations and some Super 14 games. It is all too easy to put ‘entertainment’ and ‘product’ as the drivers of style and strategy rather than playing a balanced game which includes all body types and all playing surfaces. Let’s not forget that Australia’s scrum became a living joke as a consequence of chasing entertainment in Super 14 rather than playing a balanced game. I say this as a Welshman who has lived in NSW for 20 years and loves running rugby with the required amount of forward engagement and is now currently ‘living’ in the UK again for a while
Lindommer said | March 1st 2010 @ 8:16am | Report comment
“…Australia’s scrum…a living joke…”? Scarlet, you obviously haven’t watched the Wallabies play recently, they have about the best scrum going around.
scarlet said | March 1st 2010 @ 8:34am | Report comment
Actually I have watched them in every game and would accept that they now have an acceptable scrum, hardly the best, but certainly decent. I was referring to the period up until a couple of years ago when the scrum was a joke – Al Baxter as a world class tighthead?, give me a break! Australia has made great strides forward in the front five since the scrum was depowered due to S14 pressures and I would rather see that maintained than depowered again in the pursuit of ratings. Balance is all I ask, strong forward play and exciting backs.
Sam said | March 1st 2010 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
What are you talking about? Depowered? Since when? Under the ELV’s the scrum was even more important because of the increase in free-kicks – where frequently scrums were taken – rather than penalties. If anything that has helped Australia’s scrum, and I would say that Australia has a stronger scrum than most top tier nations. They destroyed South Africa’s in Brisbane last year, and England got hammered in the scrum by Aussie in November last year. I would say forward play in NZ and South Africa is as good as anywhere (if not better), and Australia isn’t as weak as Stephen Jones would have you believe.
scarlet said | March 1st 2010 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
Actually I didn’t express myself very clearly. Apologies, I wasn’t referring to the scrum under the ELV’s but that of several years prior to that when Australia lost focus on the scrum and it became a joke. Australia’s scrum has improved significantly since then and is now competitive
Sam said | March 1st 2010 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
So you are saying 3-4 years ago Australia had a rubbish scrum? How is that even relevant?
Wavell Wakefield said | March 1st 2010 @ 8:35pm | Report comment
I think what helped Australia’s scrum was the fact that they recognised they needed to improve it, and not the fact that there were more scrums under the ELVs. Further, the increase in scrummaging didn’t actually lead to an increase in the significance of the scrum given that a lot of refs simply allowed ball to be played from collapsed scrums.
Regarding forward play in the SH, the Australian scrum has improved magnificently, but forward play is a varied thing, and thus to say that SH forward play is as good as anywhere in the SH is probably not strictly true. The SA lineout is excellent, but there has not been a good SA scrum since 1999 etc…
mitzter said | March 1st 2010 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
yes i am wondering about your depowered comment as well. Are you talking about the ‘touch’ call in the engage? And I don’t think this was for “S14 pressure”.
Scrums are an important aspect of the game (Eddie jones didn’t think so and we paid the price). I don’t believe they have been depowered from what they were in the glory days except that scrumms still don’t seem to be able to take getting pushed back, they seem to collapse under this pressure
Hammer said | March 1st 2010 @ 10:20am | Report comment
“you haven’t watched the Wallabies play recently, they have about the best scrum going around” .. good god – surely you don’t believe that … the pack has improved but it’s definitely not the one of the best going around …
CliffyTahTah said | March 1st 2010 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
We have dismantled every scrum constantly besides the All Blacks. I would say without Baxter in the scrum we would have one of the better scrums in world rugby at the moment.
RugbyHair.com said | March 1st 2010 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
I’m a Kiwi and totally agree with Scarlet here
Personally, I found the Lions v Chiefs game to be a bit of a joke and while Jonker wasn’t great, I don’t think he can be blamed for the refusal of many players to tackle or follow any sort of defensive pattern. Hopefully it was a one-off although there were some high-scoring matches that round.
I’ve been watching a lot of Northern Hemisphere rugby in the last 6 months and I like the way the top referees adjudicate (http://craprefs.com/guinness-premiership/a-bit-of-rucking-sneaks-back-into-the-northern-hemisphere/).
They allow a limited window for competing at the breakdown that seems to work and doesn’t need ‘new interpretations’ – there’s even the occasional bit of rucking.
It is a high standard of rugby that is more aligned to the tight conditions of the international game than the Super 14 and there are some great crowds – Saracens have played 3 matches at Wembly in front of 40,000+ fans each time.
The Europeans are doing something right.
The game will never die in New Zealand but there is disillusionment and a lot of Kiwis aren’t switching on to Super Rugby at the moment.
Unofficial figures had 11,880 people turning out to watch the Wellington Hurricanes play the Western Force on a Saturday and then 24,360 watched the Wellington Phoenix football team beat the Perth Wildcats 5-4 in a penalty shoot-out on the Sunday.
The Phoenix might get a full house in the Cake Tin for their semi-final. It takes a Hurricanes semi-final to bring the same size of support.
It’s hard to know the exact reason why New Zealanders are turning off rugby but something isn’t right.
- Difficulty understanding the rules
- The fact that we don’t have the best team in the competition any more
- The insistence on playing the tournament earlier and earlier (i.e. summer)
- Preference for the hometown nature of the NPC over the more corporate-oriented Super 14
- Too much rugby in general
RWC organisers were wringing their hands at the million dollar initial offering of match tickets to corporate buyers but when it comes to hawking the ‘cheap’ tickets to less popular matches, it seems that die hard fans will take some convincing that the prices are worth it.
There was a distinct switching off from rugby after the last world cup that may have had more to do with saturation than the All Black’s exit without silverware.
Hopefully the NZRFU will make a lot of money out of hosting the World Cup. The challenges will come when the money is used for something other than sustaining an NPC that the rugby faithful love.
What profit a nation that hosts the world cup but looses its (rugby) soul?
ohtani's jacket said | March 1st 2010 @ 7:22pm | Report comment
Mate, if you had the choice to watch the Phoenix or the Hurricanes what would you choose?
One side was playing in a knock-out semi-final for the first time and the other was playing an early round match against one of the worst sides in the competition.
The 24,278 fans in attendance was a record crowd for the Phoenix. Not a sellout, but a record crowd. Back on November 9th, they drew 4,115 against the Newcastle Jets. Their average for the season has been 8,965. It’s only been in the past few weeks when the playoffs became a possibility that the crowds have risen past what the Hurricanes drew for a poor match-up.
The same thing happens every time the Warriors are halfway decent. People get carried away and think it’s something major when history shows it’s not sustainable.
Pete said | March 1st 2010 @ 7:44pm | Report comment
“24,360 watched the Wellington Phoenix football team beat the Perth Wildcats ” I’d pay to see that… Surprised the Phoenix didn’t beat them by more.. the Perth Wildcats are a basketball team. Must have got frustrated with all those handballs…
(sorry could help but be a smart a*rse)
Sam said | March 1st 2010 @ 7:46pm | Report comment
It seems that rugby is doing much better following NPC last year. Crowds are generally better and apparently TV ratings are up on last year. Plus Kiwi’s generally have a more positive view of rugby than a year ago (according to several polls, also look at the herald this week).
jannerboyuk said | March 1st 2010 @ 6:06am | Report comment
Why do you lot obsess about someone who has no respect in the NH? If he didnt exist you would have to create so that the simplistic division can be maintained. I rather listen to brian ashton who has a thousands time more credibility and respect within the game then that blowhard jones.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/news-comment/brian-ashton-super-14s-fearless-creativity-makes-it-a-joy-1912228.html
katzilla said | March 1st 2010 @ 6:15am | Report comment
Brian Ashton? As in Ex-GB League coach?
He makes some good points, especially about support players flooding areas expecting a break, that was a big problem for some Australian teams last year and certainly the Wallabies. So many breaks came to nothing last year. Im picking that to change for the National team this year, with the way S14 is going atm.
jannerboyuk said | March 1st 2010 @ 6:18am | Report comment
No as in the ex coach of england ru.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Ashton_(rugby_union)
katzilla said | March 1st 2010 @ 6:22am | Report comment
Cant think of why i got that mixed up. Maybe it was Brian Noble I was thinking of.
katzilla said | March 1st 2010 @ 6:08am | Report comment
Hes a troll of the ninth degree, and he feeds off your attention.
Much like the NZ rugby press, you give him an article, and he only gains in notoriety and more Antipodeans click his article online to see what rubbish hes talking. Which in turn equals more dollars for him come his next salary review.
It really makes me cringe that that you Spiro and to an even larger degree the NZ Journos give this the guy credit by actually attempting to debate his crackpot theories.
Ignore him please, he doesn’t say anything interesting
Why should we care what the North think about our rugby? They have their tastes and we have ours.
We’re not insecure about our rugby are we?
jannerboyuk said | March 1st 2010 @ 6:20am | Report comment
The point in addition is that he doesn’t represent the north. It strikes me that he is a handy class clown when there should be a more nuanced debate.
Brian said | March 2nd 2010 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
It’s “nth” degree, not “ninth degree”
jannerboyuk said | March 1st 2010 @ 6:09am | Report comment
pfft
scarlet said | March 1st 2010 @ 6:56am | Report comment
Jannerboy he actually is reasonably representative of NH thinking. He is somewhat more extreme than most, but so is Spiro, that is because they have to excite debate in order to get paid. But a lot of less controversial commentators, Ackford, Barnes, Moore (maybe not) and others say similar things. There are different drivers, in Australia there is competition with AFL and the NRL which concerns the administrators about revenues, but in Europe the game is at its strongest ever, maybe that is a telling statistic in itself? Grass roots and ‘traditional’ quality equals revenues – how’s that for a topic? Don’t throw rocks, just another point of view!
jannerboyuk said | March 1st 2010 @ 7:45am | Report comment
That was my point really. Those commentators have valid opinions about the balance of the game against the background of the different evolution of the game, in parts, in the north. But people like eddie butler and moore (and i dont think its an accident that they are both watchers of rugby league) have a much more open minded approach. Of course that makes them a lot harder to dismiss out of hand so jones is a handy pasty for those who think its just a nh/sh ho ha and on we go. The fact that jones has latched onto a certain disquiet about the elvs/open/running rugby makes him an opportunist, not a representative. He doesn’t represent anyone in wales (where i live) who live and breathe running rugby.
Success in the north is based just as much as the clever exploitation of a wonderful array of rivalries and events rugby, successfully translated onto club rugby. A lot of the rugby played in the six nations is poor by anybodys measurement but the micks beating the ‘arrogant’ english gets the blood flowing no matter how bad the rugby on the pitch.
Dara said | March 1st 2010 @ 7:12am | Report comment
Stephen Jones has always had the highest regard for John O’Neill. He may not agree with his approach to the ELVs but he has always held him up as one of the best administrators in the game.
Sam said | March 1st 2010 @ 7:43am | Report comment
Must say I’ve read quite a bit of Brian Ashton’s stuff recently and he is real quality, always has some actually insight rather than writing to create a bit of controversy. The other writer I love it Peter Bills – he is as good as anyone around.
Happy Hooker said | March 1st 2010 @ 8:07am | Report comment
Spiro, I understand you’re a born and bred Kiwi, but this side of the ditch its five-eighth, or if you must, 10. That sort of language is simply un-Australian.